Light for Smoke, Section 7
SECT. VII. Of the power of the Preſbytery for reformation of manners, compared with Prelacy; the evill effects of Independencie; the difference betwixt a diſcipline; and the diſcipline, Mr. Saltm. his precipitancie in writing, and in divulging what he hath written of Popery in the Covenant, or under the Covenant.
Smoke. Pag. 24. LOoke into other Reformed Kingdomes, and ſee what power of godlineſſe is there by reaſon of it; doe we not ſee huge bodies of Nations very ſinfull, corrupt, and formall? for Scotland, our Brethrens preaching and watchfulneſſe, it may be more powerfull in a reformation of them then their government; and further I deny not but a Government of that nature may much reforms the outward man: Prelacy and Biſhops had a government which was Antichriſtian, yet by an exact execution, &c.
Light.In granting that you doe, I ſhall not need to trouble my ſelfe with what you deny; it is enough for the preſent point, which you yeeld, that the Government may much reforme the outward man; and for the inward, you acknowledge preaching and watchfulneſſe may be more powerfull, (as in the Kingdome of Scotland) and ſo doe I; and for that you ſay of the Presbyteriall Government, if it be Antichriſtian, as you ſay, it is not like it ſhould be bleſſed with ſo good ſucceſſe as the Chriſtian Government of the Presbytery; and if that be deficient to reformation (as no power put into the hands of man is every way perfect in any Kingdome) the defects may be referred to ſome other requiſites to ſuch a purpoſe, rather then to Presbytery it ſelfe; but where other Ordinances are not wanting, either in a right rule, or in a regular practice, there Presbyterie formed up to ſuch directions and examples as are found in Scriptures, and the beſt reformed Churches, is a better meanes to make men both Civil and Religions, then any Diſcipline or Government which hath been ordained and obſerved in the Church, ſince Popery and Superſtition were excommunicated out of it.
As for Independency, which is your darling on which you dote, and in zeale unto it, hate the Presbyteriall Government, we ſee by ſad experience that as it hath prevailed, hereſies, ſchiſmes, and all manner of licentious exorbitancies have increaſed, though it have not beene ſet up by Authoritie, but ſuffered by connivences what might be expected from it, if (which God forbid) the ſollicitations and endeavours for it ſhould advance to a toleration of it?
Smoke. Pag. 24. For your other reaſon, that my Texts make againſt not onelyonly the ſuſpending for a time, but for ever, I anſwer: It is true, principles and circumſtances conſidered, for if neither the Government be Chriſts, nor the people Nationally a Church, &c. — how or when can you ſettle it, or what will you ſettle, or upon whom?
Light. For your other reaſon, that my Texts make againſt not onelyonly the ſuſpending for a time, but for ever: Sr. in theſe words (though they be but few) as ſpoken in my name there be two great …, for they are contrary both to your meaning and mine; to yours, becauſe there is your miſpriſion of one word for another, yea for a contrary, for you ſhould ſay for, and you ſay againſt the ſuſpending, &c. but as to me it may be thought my corruption, for you make me to allow of your Texts, as making for your purpoſe, whereas I ſay,aMine Exam. and Reſolution. p. 10. For thoſe two Texts which he alledgeth for the deferring of the Government, (and if there be any weight in them as to that purpoſe they make againſt it, not for a time onelyonly, but for ever) I commend to his conſideration, &c. but you leave out the parentheſis, which intimates my minde to be, that thoſe Texts doe not make for your purpoſe. And whereas you demand how, and when can you ſettle it, or what will ye ſettle, or upon whom? theſe are no Queſtions meet to be propounded to me, (who take not upon me to ſettle any government) but to the Parliament, who in part have really anſwered them already, and will doe it I hope more ſpeedily and more fully then you would have them.
Smoke. Pag. 25. I plead for a delay onelyonly in ſetting up a Diſcipline, not the Diſcipline; or more plainly, that the Diſcipline be ſuch that the Covenanters may not violate that Article wherein they are bound to doe every thing according to the Word, and ſo prove unfaithfull in their Covenant, while they are moſt zealous for it.
Light.And the Presbyterians plead not for a Diſcipline in common, but for the Diſcipline in ſpeciall, which is moſt agreeable to the word of God, againſt which they will admit of nothing; and if to it they adde ſomething (wherein the word leaves them to make out by prudence, and exemplary conformity what is of neceſſary practice, and not preſcribed in the Scriptures) they are not to be charged with doing any thing either againſt the Word, or againſt the Covenant.
Smoke. Pag. 25. And for the title of Popery which I put upon ſuch an obedience, which you ſay cannot be, becauſe diſcovered in the next Article of the Covenant; I anſwer, the Popery is not in the Covenant, but in the miſinterpretation upon it, and the miſtaken practiſe of it, which is the thing which I onelyonly averre.
Light.This paſſage, as the laſt but one, to which I might adde many more, ſhews your precipitancie in ſending forth your fancies to publique view; you glory in the quick diſpatch of your Pen, and that there may be no delay at the Preſſe, one Printer will not ſerve your turne for your Booke, though of no great bulke, but two at the leaſt muſt be imployed for expedition in it; and when it is Printed, though there be very many and groſſe eſcapes, it muſt not ſtay to be reviſed, that any thing miſtaken by a Catalogue of the Errata may be corrected; ſo all things concur for application of the Proverbe to your Dictates, Feſtinans canis caecos parit catules; and ſo doe you put diſcovered for diſavowed in the next Article; betwixt which words there is ſo great difference, that diſcovered is for your opinion, diſavowed for mine; but you have your diſcovery, and it is of Popery, not in the Covenant, but in the interpretation upon it, and the miſtaken practiſe of it; but whoſe interpretation is this? to me it appeares to be yours, by your next words.
Smoke. Pag. 25. Oh how ſoon may we be Popiſh under a covenant againſt it… I had as great a tythe once as another, but I could not hold it ſo, neither by Covenant, nor Goſpel.
Light.And may we ſoon be Popiſh under a Covenant againſt it? very ſoon; (for ſo much your pathetick interrogation imports) then Sr. comfort your ſelfe, as you are a Patrone of Hereticks and Schiſmaticks, (pleading for indulgency to them, and toleration of them, though you know the Covenant is made expreſly againſt them) for how ſoone may Hereſie and Schiſme increaſe under a Covenant againſt them?