Light for Smoke, Section 8 – Section 9

Light for Smoke · Section 8 – Section 9

p. 19SECT. VIII. Tythes not Jewiſh and Popiſh, as M^r. Saltm. pretendeth.

Smoke. Pag. 25. VVHat are the maintenance of Miniſters by Tythes? Iewiſh and Popiſh undeniably, yet no notice of this at all.

Light.How? Iewiſh and Popiſh undeniably? as undeniably as the Sabbath was Iewiſh when the Prelates ſo called it, or the Doctrine of the Trinity Popiſh as Valentinus Gentilis tooke it when he diſliked the Doctrine of the Reformed Churches in that Article,aaQuod Eccleſia reformatae adhuc in fide Trinitatis cum Papiſtis conveniret Bell. praefat. in libr. de Christo. Tom. 1. ſccund Controverſ. general. p 271. becauſe they agreed with the Papiſts therein. You are groſly miſtaken S^r. in the tenure of Tythes; for though there be a clamour taken up againſt them, by ſuch as make no ſcruple either of ſlander, or of ſacriledge, and ſome would change the Miniſters portion, which is their Maſters wages for his own worke, and reduce them to voluntary penſions of the people, becauſe they would have a liberty to begger them, who will not humour them in their fond, and falſe opinions, and licentious practices, but oppoſe them as of conſcience they are bound to doe, neither you nor all your party can prove them either Iewiſh, or Popiſh, as they are allowed, and received for the maintenance of the Miniſters of England; And becauſe you are ſo confident in your opinion of M^r. Nye, whom with M^r. Goodwin bbSmoke. p. 14.you cite for a worthy ſaying touching the Golden Ball of Government, I refer you for ſatisfaction to him, who will tell you as he hath done divers others, that Miniſters of the Goſpel may hold, and receive Tythes for their maintenance, by a right and title, which is neither Iewiſh nor Popiſh, but truly Chriſtian; and there is nothing Iewiſh or Popiſh in Tythes but the Aſſignation of the decima decimarum from theeeNum. 18.28.Num 18:28 Leviticall Prieſts to the high Prieſt, from the high Prieſt to theddIn veterilege primitiae debebantur ſacerdotibus, decima autem Levitis, & quia ſub ſacerdotibus Levitae cram, Dominus mandavi… ut ipſi loco decimarum ſolverent ſummo ſacerdor… decimam decimae: unde nunc cadem ratione tenentur Clerici ſummo pontifici decimam dare ſi exigeret. Aquin. Sum. 22. q. 87. a. 4. ad 3. Soto 9. Juſt. q. 4. art. 4. ad 3. Lorin. in Num. 18. v. 28. p. 687.Num 18:28 Pope, and from the Pope to the King; when firſt Pope Ʋrbane gave them to Richard the Second, to aid him againſt Charles the French p. 20King, and others that upheld Clement the Seventh againſt him, as Polydore Virgil eePolyd. Virgil. Hiſt. l. 16.relateth. And King Henry the Eighth taking from the Pope the title of Head of the Church to himſelfe byffAn. 26. Hen. 8. c. 1. Polt. Abri…. p. 561. Act of Parliament, tooke from him theggIbid. c. 2. p. 565. Tenths, and other profits annexed to that title, which were ſettled upon the Crowne by Statute in the twenty ſixth yeere of Henry the Eighth; ſo that the Iewiſh high Prieſthood being expired, the Papall Lordſhip aboliſhed, the Tythes paid under thoſe Titles may be called Iewiſh and Popiſh, but not that which is aſſigned for the maintenance of Miniſters, becauſe they are yet to doe ſervice to their Maſter, and ſo to receive the maintenance of his allowance for his worke, which fellow ſervants cannot take upon them to take away without preſumption; their doore neighbour will not allow them a power to appoint the wages of their ſervants, much leſſe may they uſurpe upon the Right of God, and his Miniſters, to alienate them from the ſupport of his ſervice and worſhip; for that is rather Popiſh, for the Pope hath tranſlated the Tenure from the Miniſters to the Monaſteries, to Nunneries, and to what purpoſe he thought fit to aſſigne them, and thence came in the tranſlation of titles from the incumbent Miniſters, the making of Leaſes by the Biſhop, Patrone and Incumbent, without ſtint and terme of yeeres to Lay perſons, untill they were reſtrained by thehhS^r. Edw. Cooke in the firſt part of the Inſtitut. of the Lawes of England. l. 1. c. 7. Sect. 58. fol. 44. p. 1. State in the 1. of Eliz. 13. ſo that if you have given up your tithes to your Pariſhioners of Braſteed, and told the Committee of Examinations ſo, (as you imply in the paſſage repeated) you are more Popiſh therein then other Miniſters of the Goſpel, who retaine them and officiate to the people that pay them in all the Ordinances of Chriſt, which you refuſe to doe; and as I heare, you have renounced your Ordination to the Miniſtery; if ſo, there is no reaſon you ſhould have them, whether they be lewiſh, Popiſh, or Chriſtian.

You will ſay perhaps I make this plea of the tenure of Tythes for my profit, whereas it would be more for the ſecuritie of my conſcience, and ſupport of my credit againſt the imputation of covetouſneſſe, to give them up as antiquated Coremonies, as you have done; and truly S^r. if I had ever thought them either Iewiſh or Popiſh, I ſhould rather have ſet you an example of reſilling p. 21them, then (being your Senior, as I am) have ſuffered you to be before me as my patterne for a conſcientious recuſancie of ſuch a revenue; But I never read in any Booke, much leſſe in yours, (wherein in caſe of Tythes you play not the Diſputant, but the Dictator) which could make me ſuſpect them to be Anti-Evangelicall; nor hath any reſpect to advantage made me of a better opinion of their title then yours, ſince I have rejected the offer of thrice as much benefit by Tythes as now I have. And if Tythes were taken away, I am confident I ſhould be no loſer by another allowance; though it may be I may fall under a miſrepreſentation, as if I argued for them as Demetrius for the honour of Diana, when I mind …ing more then the gaine of Tythes, as he did the gaine of her ſilver Shrines; and I may the rather ſuſpect it from ſome of your ſide, (though not from you) becauſe I find the like charge laid upon M^r. Edw. byiiWhiſp. in the eare of M^r. Tho. Edw. p. 1.2.15. M^r. W.W. in his Whiſper in his care: wh… as he is like Luther in the vigour and freedome of his ſpirit, ſo is he, as Luther ſaid of himſelfe, of all ſinnes the freeſt from covetouſneſſe; and on my knowledge, whereas he hath had the offer of many good Benefices, he reſuſed them, and hath no Tythes at all for his maintenance, but a voluntary penſion, which is not competent for his charge, or paines either in an anſwerable preportion, or a ſeaſonable payment; and yet is he contented with it, minding much more the doing of the worke he undertooke, then the receiving of the wages.

SECT. IX. Of M^r. Colemans obſervation of the Church of Scotland.

Smoke. Pag. 28. TO your other of the bleſſings, and bleſſed fruits in Scotland, th… there is no Hereſie nor Schiſme, l…t M^r. Coleman our learned and pious Brother ſpeake for us both from his experiences.

Light.I … by this paſſage you have not read the Booke you pretend p. 22to anſwer; for M^r. Colemans experience was not of Hereſie, and Schiſme in the Church of Scotland, but (as he gave inſtance) of the Presbyteries uſurpation of the power of baniſhment; and if you meane M^r. Colemans charge for that, (as I ſuppoſe you doe) you might have taken notice of an Anſwer to it in the ſeventh Section of mine Examination of your New Quere, p. 21. which, though it were in part but conjecturall, is confirmed by a more certain Anſwer of the Reverend Commiſſioner M^r.**M^r. Gillespie his Nihil Reſpondes. p. 24. Gillespie in theſe words, What from Scotland? I my ſelfe (ſaith M^r. Coleman) did heare the Preſbyterie of Edinborough cenſure a woman to be baniſhed out of the gates of the City; was not this an incroachment? It had beene an incroachment indeed if it had been ſo. But he will excuſe me if I anſwer him in his owne Language (which I uſe not) p. 3. & 5. It is at the beſt a moſt uncharitable ſlander, and there was either ignorance or mindleſneſſe in him that ſets it downe.

There is no baniſhment in Scotland but by the Civill Magiſtrate, who ſo farre aydeth and aſſiſteth Church Diſcipline, that prefane and ſcandalous perſons, when they are found unruly and incorrigible, are puniſhed with baniſhment, or otherwiſe. A ſtranger coming at a time into one of our Preſbyteries, and hearing of ſomewhat which was repreſented to, or reported from the Magiſtrate, ought to have ſo much circumspection and charitie as not to make ſuch a raſh and untrue report. He might have at leaſt inquired when he was in Scotland, and informed himſelfe better, whether Preſbytery or the Civill Magiſtrate doe baniſh. If he made no ſuch inquirie, he was raſh in judging: if he did, his offence is greater, when after information he will not underſtand. And if you put your cauſe to the arbitration of M^r. Coleman, you will find cauſe by the ſentence to conceive him to be no more an Independent, then we have to take him to be a Presbyterian; and I ſuppoſe I may ſay he is more ours then yours, ſince he hath put himſelfe into the Aſſociation of a Claſſicall Aſſembly, in the Province of London; howſoever whether he prove a Participle, or a Neuter, I know you will not be concluded by his either opinion, or practiſe, no more ſhall we.