Acts and Monuments Volume 2 Part 2, Book 11 · Account 18 · Examination 6
*The sixt examination of Iohn Philpot had before the right honourable Lordes, Lorde Chamberlayne to the kinges Maiesty, the Vicount Herford, commonly called Lord Ferrers, the Lord Rich, the Lord S. Iohns, the Lord Winsor, the Lord Shandoys, Sir Ioh. Bridges Lieutenant of the Tower, and two other moe whose names I know not, with the B. of London and Doctour Chadsey, the sixt day of Nouember. An. 1555.
PHilpot.
Before that I was called afore the Lordes, and whiles they were in sitting downe, the Byshop of Lō don came aside to me and whispered in myne eare,The 6. examination of M. Philpot before certain Lord…, and the Bishop of Lō don. willing me to vse my selfe before the Lordes of the queenes maiesties Councell prudently, and to take heede what I sayd: & thus he pretendeth to geue me counsaile because he wished me to do well, as I might now do if I list. And after the Lordes & other worshipfull gentlemen of ye queenes Maiesties seruauntes were set, my Lorde of London placed himselfe at the end of the table, & called me to hym, & by the Lords I was placed at the vpper end agaynst him: where I kneeling downe, the Lordes commaunded me to stande vp, and after in this manner the Byshop began to speake.
London.
M. Philpot, I hauehave heretofore, both priuately my selfe, and openly before the Lordes of ye Clergy,The words of Bishop Boner to M. Philpot. mo times then once caused you to bee talked withall to reforme you of your errours, but I hauehave not found you yet so tractable as I would wish: Wherfore now I hauehave desired these honorable Lordes of the temporaltie and of the Queenes Maiesties Counsayle, who hauehave taken paynes with me this day (I thanke them therefore) to heare you what you can say, that they may be iudges whether I hauehave sought all meanes to do you good or no: and I dare be bold to say in theyr behalfe, that if you shew your selfe conformable to the Queenes Maiesties proceedinges, you shall finde as much fauour for your deliueraunce, as you can wishe. I speake not this to fawne vpō you, but to bryng you home into the Church. Now let them heare what you can say.
Phil.
My Lorde I thanke God of this daye, that I hauehave such an honorable audiēce to declare my mynd before.M. Phil… aunswere to the Bishop. And I cannot but commend your Lordships equity in this behalf, which agreeth with the order of the primatiue church which was, if any body had bene suspected of heresie (as I am now) he should be called, first before the archbishop or byshop of the Dioces where he was suspected, secondly in the presence of others his fellow byshops and learned elders, and thirdly in hearyng of the layty: where after the iudgement of Gods word declared, and with the assent of other Bishops and consent of the people he was condemned to exile for an hereticke,Heretickes … the pri…iue Church onelyonly … to …. or absolued. And the seconde poynt of that good order I hauehave found at your Lordships hands already in being called before you & your fellow bishops: & now hauehave the third sort of mē at whose hands I trust to finde more righteousnes in my cause then I hauehave found wt my Lordes of ye Clergy, God graunt I may hauehave at last the iudgement of Gods word concerning the same.
London.
M. Philpot. I praye you ere you go any further tell my Lordes here playnely whther you were by me or by my procurement committed to prison or not, and whether I hauehave shewed you anye crueltie sithen yee hauehave bene committed to my prison.
Phil.
If it shall please your Lordship to geue me leaue to declare forth my matter, I wil touch that afterward.
Rich.
Aunswere first of all to my Lordes two questions, & then proceede forth to the matter. How say you? wer you imprisoned by my Lorde or no? can you finde anye faulte since with his cruell vsing of you.
Phil.
I cannot laye to my Lordes charge the cause of my imprisonmēt, neyther I may say that he hath vsed me cruelly,… boner … the can … of M. Philpots …. but rather for my part I might say that I hauehave found more gentlenesse at his Lordships handes then I dyd at myne owne Ordinaries for the time I hauehave bene wythin his prison, for that he hath called me three or foure times to mine answere, to the which I was not called twelue mōth and a halfe before.
Rich.
Well, now go to your matter.
Phil.
The matter is, that I am imprisoned for the disputations had by me in the Conuocation house agaynst the sacrament of the aultar, which matter was not moued principally by me, but by the Prolocutor, with the consent of ye Queenes Maiestie and of the whole house, and that house being a member of the Parliament house, ought to be a place of free speeche for all men of the house, by the ancient and laudable custome of this realme. Wherefore I thynke my selfe to hauehave sustayned hetherto great iniury for speaking my conscience freely in suche a place as I might lawfully do it: and I desire your honorable Lordships iudgement which be of the Parliament house, whether of right I ought to be impeached therefore, and sustayne the losse of my liuing (as I hauehave done) and moreouer of my life, as it is sought.
Rich.
You are deceaued herein: for the Conuocation house is no part of the Parliament house.… of the Parliament … sayth … Lord ….
Phil.
My Lord, I hauehave alwayes vnderstāded the contrary by suche as are more experte menne in thinges of thys realme then I: and againe, the title of eueryevery Acte leadeth me to thinke otherwise, which alledgeth the agreement of the spiritualitie and temporaltie assembled together.
Rich.
Yea, that is meant of the spirituall Lordes of the vpper house.
Winsor.
In deed the Conuocation house is called together by one writte of the Summons of ye Parliament of an old custome:Whether the Conuocation be part of the Parliament … free … was … by … man …. notwithstanding that house is no part of the parliament house.
Phil.
My Lordes, I must be contēted to abide your iudgementes in this behalfe.
Rich.
We hauehave told you the truth. Mary yet wee woulde not that you should be troubled for any thinge that there was spoken, so that you hauing spoken amisse, do declare now that you are sory therfore.
Lond.
My Lordes he hath spoken there manifest heresie, yea and there stoutly mayntayned the same against ye blessed sacramēt of the aultar (and with that he put off his cap that al the Lords might reuerence & vayle theyr bonets at that Idoll as they did) and would not allow the reall presence of the body and bloude of Christe in the same: yet my Lordes, God forbid that I shoulde goe about to shewe him extremity for so doing, in case he will repent & reuoke his wicked sayings: & if in faith he wil so do, wt your lordships consent he shalbe released by and by. Mary if he wil not, he shal look for ye extremitie of the law, & that shortly.
Chamb.
My Lorde of London speaketh reasonably vntounto you: take it whiles it is offered you.
Rich.
How say you? Will you acknowledge the reall presence of the bloud and body of Christ, as a… the learned mē of this realm do in the Masse, and as I do, and wil beleue as long as I liue, I do protest it?
Phil.
My Lord I do acknowledge in the sacramente of the body and bloud of Christ such a presence, as the worde of God doth allow and teach me.
Rich
That shalbe none otherwise then you lift.
London.
A sacrament is the signe of a holy thing:How Boner … in the Sacrament, … both the signe and thing sig…fied. So that there is both the signe which is the accident (as ye whitenes, roūdnes, & shape of bread) and there is also the thyng it selfe, as very Christ both God and man. But these heretickes will hauehave the sacramentes to be but bare signes. How say you? declar… vntounto my Lordes here whether you do allow the thing it selfe in the sacrament or no?
Phil.
I do confesse yt in the Lordes supper there is in due respectes both the signe and the thing signified,Both the sig… and the thing signified in … respectes, … the Sacrament▪ when it is duely ministred after the institution of Christ.
London.
You may see how he goeth about the bush (as he hath done before) with my Lords of the Clergy, and dare not vtter his minde playnly.
Rich.
Shew vsus what maner of presence you allowe in the sacrament.
Philpot.
If it shall please you my Lord of London, to geue me leaue to proceede orderly thereunto, and to let me declare my minde without interruption, I wil throughly open my minde therin.
L. Shand.
I pray you my Lord, let hym speake his mynde.
Phil.
My Lordes, that at the first I hauehave not plainly declared my iudgemēt vntounto you in this, because I cānot speake hereof without the daunger of my life.
Rich.
There is none of vsus here that seeketh thy life, or meane to take any aduauntage of that thou shalt speake.Ye say ye seek… not his lyfe and yet ye … to aunswere … that ye aske … be his death.
Phil.
Although I mistrust not your honorable Lordships y• be here of ye tēporalty: yet here is one that sitteth against me (pointing to my Lord of London) that wil lay it to my charge euen to the death. Notwithstanding, seeing youre honours do require me to declare my minde of the presēce of Christ in the sacrament, that ye may perceaue that I am not ashamed of the Gospell of Christe, neither doe mayntayne any opinion without probable and sufficient authoritie of the Scripture, I will shewe franckly my minde without all colour, what soeuer shall ensu… vntounto me therfore, so that my Lord of London wil not let me to vtter my minde.
Rich.
My Lord, permit him to say what he can, seeyng hee is willing to shew his mind.
London.
I am content my Lordes, let him say what he can I will heare him.
Phil.
That which I doe entend to speake vntounto you (right honourable Lordes) I do protest here,The protestatiō of Iohn Philpot before the Lordes. first before God & his Angels, that I speake it not of vaynglory, neyther of singularitie, neither of wilfull stubburnes, but truely vponupon a good conscience grounded on Gods worde, against ye which I dare not do for feare of damnation which wil follow that which is done contrary to knowledge. Neyther do I disagree to the proceedinges of this realme in the religion for that I louelove not the Queene (whom I louelove from the bottome of my hart) but because I ought to louelove & fear God in his word more then man in his lawes, thoughe I stand as I seeme to do in this consideration, and for none other as God I call to witnes.
There be two thinges principally, by the which ye clergy at this day doth deceiue the whole realm: that is,Two thinge wherein the Clergy dece… ueth the whole realme. ye sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ, and the name of ye Catholicke church: y• which both they do vsurpe, hauing in deed none of them both. And as touching theyr Sacrament, which they terme of the aulter, I say now as I sayd in the Conuocation house that it is not the Sacramente of Christ,The Papistes hauehave neyther… the Sacrament of the Lordes body nor the true Church. neither in the same is there any maner of Chrystes presence. Wherfore they deceiue the Queenes maiesty: and you of ye nobilitie of thys realme, in making you to beleue yt to be a sacrament which is none, and cause you to commit manifest Idolatry in worshipping that for God, whiche is no God. And in testimony of this to be true, besides manifest proofe which I am able to make to the Queenes maiesty and to all you of her nobility, I will yeld my lyfe. The which to do, if it were not vponupon a sure groūd, it were to my vtter damnation.
And where they take on them the name of the Catholicke church (wherby they blinde many folkes eyes) they are nothing so,Papistes vntounto … vsurpe the name of the Church. calling you from the true religion whiche was reuealed & taught in K. Edwardes time, vntounto vaine superstition. And this I will say for the tryall hereof, that if they can proue themselues to be the catholicke church (as they shal neuer be able to do) I wil neuer be agaynst their doynges, but reuoke all that I hauehave sayd. And I shall desire you (my Lordes) to be a meane for me to the Queenes maiestie, that I may be brought to ye iust triall hereof. Yea I will not refuse to stand agaynst ten of the best of them in this realme. And if they be able to proue otherwise then I hauehave sayd, either by writing or by reasoning, with good & lawfull authoritie, I will here promise to recant whatsoeuer I hauehave sayd,M. Philpot offereth himselfe to stand against 10. of the best learned in the realme in proofe of his cause. & to consent to them in all poyntes. And in the declaratiō of these things more at large, which now I write in summe: the Bishop of London eftsones would hauehave interrupted me, but the Lords procured me libertie to make out my tale, to the great griefe of my Lord bishop of London, as it appeared by his dumpes he was in.
Londō.
It hath bene told me before, that you louelove to make a long tale.
Rich.
Al heretickes do boast of the spirite of God, and eueryevery one would hauehave a church by himselfe: as Ioan of Kent and the Anabaptistes. I had my selfe Ioan of Kent a seuen night in my house after ye writ was out for her to be burnt where my Lorde of Canterb. and Bishop Ridley resorted almost dayly vntounto her: but she was so high in the spirite yt they could do nothing with her for all theyr learning. But she went wilfully vntounto the fire, was burnt, and so do you now.
Phil.
As for Ioan of Kent, shee was a vayne woman (I knew her well & an heretick indeed,The Popes Catholickes when they hauehave no iust reason wherewith to perswade, they fall to rating, & to charge men with stubbernes. well worthye to bee burnt because she stoode agaynst one of the manifest artycles of our faith, contrary to the scriptures: and such vayne spirites be soone known from ye true spirite of God & hys church, for yt the same abideth wtin the limites of GODS word and will not go out of the same, neither stubburnely mayntaine any thing cōtrary to the word, as I hauehave gods word throughly on my side to shew for that I stand in.
London.
I pray you, how will you ioyne me these ij. scriptures together: Pater maior me est, & pater & ego vnum sumuꝰ I must enterprete the same, because my Lordes here vnderstand not the Latin: that is to saye: The Father is greater then I, and I and the father are one. But I cry you mercye my Lordes, I hauehave mispoken, in saying you vnderstande no Latine: for the most part of you vnderstand Latin as well as I. But I spake in consideration of my Lord Shādoys and M. Bridges his brother, whom I take to be no great Latin men. Now shew your cunning, and ioine these two scriptures by the word if you can.
Phil.
Yes that I can right well. For we must vnderstande that in Christ there be two natures, the diuinitie and Humanitie, & in respect of his humanitie it is spoken of christ The Father is greater then I. But in respect of hys Deitie, he sayd agayne: The Father and I be one.
London.
But what scripture hauehave you?
Phil.
Yes, I hauehave sufficient scripture for the proofe of that I hauehave sayd.Psalme. 8. For the first, it is written of Christ in ye Psalmes: Diminuisti eum paulominus ab Angelis: Thou hast made him a little lesser then Aungels. It is the xv. Psalme, beginning? Coeli enarrant. And there I misreckoned, wherwithall my Lord tooke me.
London.
It is in Domine Dominus noster. Yee may see my Lords how wel this man is vsed to say his Mattins.
Phil.
Though I say not Mattins in suche order as youre Lordship meaneth: yet I remember of olde, that Domine Dominus noster, and Coeli enarrant, bee not farre asunder: and albeit I misnamed the Psalme, it is no preiudice to the truth of that I hauehave proued.
London.
What say you then to the second scripture? howe couple you that by the word to the other?
Phil.
Scriptures alledged.The text it selfe declareth, yt notwithstanding Chryst did abase himself in our humayne nature: yet he is stil one in Deitie with the Father. And this S. Paule to the Hebrues doth more at large set foorth. And as I hauehave by the scriptures ioyned these two scriptures together, so am I able to do in all other Articles of fayth which we ought to beleue and by the manifest word of God to expound them.How the letter killeth and whom. 2. Cor 3.
London.
How can that be, seing saynct Paule sayth, that the letter killeth, but it is the spirite that geueth life.
Philpot.
S. Paul meaneth not the worde of God, written in it selfe killeth, which is the word of life and the faythfull testimonie of the Lord, but that the worde is vnprofitable and killeth him that is void of the spirite of God, although he be the wisest man of the world, and therfore S. Paule sayd, That the Gospell to some was a sauour of life vntounto lyfe, and to some other a sauour of death vntounto death. Iohn. 6.Also an example hereof we hauehave in the vi. of Iohn, of them who hearing ye worde of God without the spirite were offended thereby: wherefore Christ sayd, The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the spirite that quickeneth.
London.
What? do you vnderstand that of S. Paule and of S. Iohn so?
Philpot.
It is not mine owne interpretation, it is agreable to the word in other places: and I hauehave learned ye same of auncient fathers interpreting it likewise.1. Cor. 6. And to ye Corinthians as it is written: Animalis homo non percipit ea quae sunt spiritus Dei: spiritualis dijudicat omnia. The natural man perceiueth not the thinges that bee of the spirite of God: but the spirituall man whiche is indued with the spirite, iudgeth all thinges.
London.
You see my Lordes, that this man will hauehave but hys owne minde, and will wilfully cast away himselfe. I am sory for him.
Phil.
The words yt I hauehave spoken be none of mine but of the Gospell, wheron I ought to stand. And if, you my lord of London, can bring better authoritie for the faythe you would draw me vntounto, then that which I stand vpō, I wil gladly heare ye same by you or by any other in this realm.
Wherfore I kneeling down, besought the Lords to be good vntounto me a poore Gentleman,1. Cor. 2. M. Philpots request to the Lordes. that would fayne lyue in the world if I might: and to testifie: as you hauehave heard me to say this day, that if any man can approue yt I ought to be of any other maner of faith then that of which I now am, and can proue the same sufficiently, I will be neyther wil…ull neither desperate, as my Lorde of London woulde make you beleue me to be.
Rich.
What countrey man be you? are you of the Philpots of Hampshyre?
Phil.
Yea my Lorde I was Sir Peter Philpots sonne of Hampshyre.
Rich.
He is my neare kinsman: wherefore I am the more sory for him.
Phil.
I thanke your Lordship that it pleaseth you to chalenge kinred of a poore prisoner.
Rich.
In faith I would go an hundreth miles on my bare feete to do you good.
Cham.
He may do well enough if he liSt.
S. Iohn.
M. Philpot: you are my countryman, & I woulde be glad you should do well.
Rich.
You said euen now, that you would desire to mayntaine your beliefe before ten of the best in the realme. You did not well to compare with the Nobilitie, of the Realme.Iohn Philpot wil not be iudged by his aduersaryes, but by the hearers, so far as they shall iudge by Gods worde. But what if you hauehave tenne of the best in the Realme to heare you, will you be tryed by them?
Phil.
My Lord, your Lordshippe mistaketh me to thinke that I challenge tenne of the best of the Nobilitie in thys realme: It was no part of my minde, but I meant of the best learned on the contrary side.
Rich.
Wel I take your meaning What if meanes be made to the Queenes maiestie, that you shall hauehave your request will you be iudged by them?
Phil.
My Lord, it is not meete that a man shoulde be iudged by his aduersaries.
Rich.
By whom then would you be iudged?
Phil.
I will make your honours iudges, that shalbe hearers of vsus.
Rich.
I dare be bolde to procure for you of the Queenes maiestie that you shall hauehave tenne learned men to reason with you and twenty or forty of the Nobility to heare, so you wil promise to abide theyr iudgement. How say you? will you promise here afore my Lordes so to do?
Phil.
I will be contented to be iudged by them.
Rich.
Yea, but wil you promise to agree to theyr iudgemēt.
Phil.
There be causes why I may not so do, vnlesse I wer sure they would iudge according to the word of God.
Rich.
O, I perceaue you wil hauehave no man iudge but your selfe,The true order of iudgement vsed in the primatiue Church. B. Boner bewrayeth his owne ignoraunce. and thinke your selfe wiser then all the learned men of this Realme.
Phil.
My Lorde, I seeke not to be myne owne iudge, but am contēt to be iudged by other, so that the order of iudgement in matters of religion be kept that was in the primatiue Church, which is, first that Gods wil by his word was sought, and thereunto both the spiritualty and temporaltie was gathered together, and gaue theyr consentes & iudgement, & such kind of iudgement I will stand to.
London.
My Lordes he would make you beleeue that hee were profoundly seene in auncient writers of the iudgementes of the primatiue Church, and there was neuer any such maner of iudgement vsed as he now talketh of.
Phil.
In the Epistles of S. Ciprian I am able to shewe it you.
London.
A, I tell you there is no such thing: fet me Cyprian hether.B. Boner dare not fetch out his booke.
Phil.
You shall finde it otherwise when the booke commeth. And D. Chedsay his Chaplayne (whom he appointed to fet his booke) whispered the Bishop in his care, and fet not the booke, by likelihoode that he should hauehave susteined the reproche thereof if the booke had bene fet. Well my Lord (quoth I) mayster Doctor knoweth it is so, or els he would hauehave fet the booke ere this.
Rich.
You woulde hauehave none other iudge (I see) but the worde.
Phil.
Yes my Lord: I will be tryed by the word, & by such as will iudge according to the word. As for an example, if there were a controuersy betweene your Lordship and an other vponupon the words of a statute, must not the words of the statute iudge and determine the controuersie?
Rich.
… Boner …pheth … the ….No mary the Iudges of the law may determine the meaning therof.
Load.
He hath brought as good an example agaynst hym selfe as can be.
And here the B. thought he had good handfast against me, and therefore enlarged it with many wordes to the iudgement of the Church.
The Lordes.
Hee hath ouerthrowne himselfe by his owne argument.
Phil.
My Lords, it seemeth to your honours yt you hauehave great aduauntage of me by the example I brought in,… a Iudge … law … the …earing of … o…wise … …gree… to the word…s: so … the … no power to …dge the …aning of Gods word …trary to …. …. …ection of the Lord …, why the wordes … the scrip… a…e not … be taken: […his is my body.] to expresse my cause? but if it be pondered throughly, it maketh wholy with me, and nothing against me, as my Lord of London hath pretended. For I will aske of my Lorde Rich here whom I know to hauehave good knowledge in the lawes and statutes of this realm, albeit a Iudge may discerne the meaning of a statute agreable to ye wordes, whether the same may iudge a meaning contrary to the expres wordes or no?
Rich.
He cannot so do.
Phil.
Euen so say I, that no man ought to iudge the word of God to hauehave a meaning contrary to the expresse words therof, as this false church of Rome doth in many things: and with this the Lordes seemed to be satisfied, and made no further replication herein.
Rich.
I meruaile thē why you do deny the expresse words of Christ in the sacrament, saying, This is my body, and yet you will not sticke to say it is not his body. Is not GOD omnipotent? and is not he able as well by his omnipotencie to make it his body, as he was to make man flesh of a peece of clay? Did not he say: This is my body whiche shalbe betrayed for you? and was not his very bodye betrayed for vsus therfore it must needes be his body.
London.
My Lord Rich, you hauehave sayde wonderfull well and learnedly. But you might hauehave begon with hym before also in the 6. of Iohn, where Christe promised to geue his body in the sacrament of the aultar, saying: Panis quem ego dabo, caro mea est: The bread which I will geue, is my fleshe. How can you answere to that?
Phil.
If it please you to geue me leaue to answere first my Lord Rich, I will also answere this obiection.
Rich.
Answere my lord of Lōdon first, & after come to me.
Philpot.
My Lord of London may be soone answered, that that the saying of S. Iohn is,Aunswere to B. Boners …i…ction. that the humanitie of chryst which he took vponupon him for the redemption of man, is the bread of life, whereby our bodyes & soules be susteined to eternall lyfe, of the which the sacramentall bread is a liuely representation and an effectuall cohabitation to all suche as beleue on his Passion: and as Christ sayth in the same 6▪ of Iohn,The place …. …he bread … I will true is my … &c] A…nswere … the Lord …iches ob…ction. Papistes …ater cosins … the Capemai…es. I am the bread that came downe from heauen:, but yet he is not materiall neither naturall bread. Likewise ye bread is his flesh, not naturall or substantiall, but by signification, and by grace in a sacrament.
And now to my Lord Riches argument. I do not deny the expresse wordes of Christ in the sacrament, This is my body: but I deny that they are naturally and corporally to be taken: they must be taken sacramentally and spiritually, according to the expresse declaration of Christ saying, that the wordes of the sacrament whiche the Capernites tooke carnally, as the papistes nowe doe, ought to be taken spiritually, & not carnally, as they falsly imagine not waying what interpretation of Christe hath made in this behalfe, neither follow the Institution of Christ, neyther the vse of the Apostles and of the primatiue Churche, who neuer taught, neither declared no such carnall maner of presence as is now exacted of vsus violently without any ground of scripture or antiquitie,… hath neyther …. 150. who vsed to put oute of the Church all such as did not receiue the sacrament wyth the rest, and also to burne that which was left after the receiuing, as by the Canon of the Apostles and by the decree of the Councell of Antioch, may appeare.
London.
No, that is not so: they were onelyonly Cathecumeni which went out of the Church at the celebration of the cō munion, and none other.
Phil.
It was not onelyonly of such as were Nouices in fayth but all others that did not receaue.
London.
What say you to the omnipotencie of God? is not be able to performe that which he spake, as my Lord Rich hath very well said? I tell thee, that God by his omnipotency may make himselfe to be this carpet if he will.
Phil.
As concerning the omnipotencie of God, I say that God is able to do (as the Prophet Dauid sayth) what soeuer he willeth: but he willeth nothing that is not agreeable to hys word: as that is blasphemy which my Lorde of London hath spoken, that God may become a Carpet. For as I hauehave learned of auncient writers:B. Boner… vn…euerent and blasphemous speaking of God. Non potest Deus facere quae sunt naturae suae contraria: That is, God cannot doe that which is contrary to his nature, as it is contrary to ye nature of God to be a Carpet. A Carpet is a creature: & God is the creator: and the creator cānot be the creature: wherfore vnlesse you can declare by the worde, that Christ is otherwise present with vsus then spiritually and sacramentally by grace, as he hath taught vsus,The omnipot… cye pretended in vayne. you pretend the omnipotencie of God in vayne?
London.
Why? wilt thou not say that Christ is really present in the sacrament? Or do you deny it?
Phil.
I deny not that Christ is really in the Sacrament to the receauer therof according to Christes institution.Christ in the Sacrament really present to the receauer. What he calleth really.
London.
What meane you by really present?
Phil.
I meane by really present, present in deed.
London
Is God really present eueryevery where?
Phil.
He is so.
London.
How proue you that?
Phil.
The Prophet Esay sayth? That God filleth all places: and where soeuer there be two or three gathered together in Christes name, there is he in the middest of them.
London?
What? his humanitie?
Phil.
No my Lord, I meane the deitie, accordinge to that you demaunded.
Rich.
My Lord of London,B. Boner to weake for Iohn Philpot. I praye you let mayster Doctour Chedsey reason with him, and let vsus see how hee can aunswere him: for I tell thee he is a learned man in deede & one that I do credite before a great many of you, whose doctrine the Queenes maiestie and the whole realme doth well allow, therefore heare him.
Lond.
My Lordes I pray you, wil it please you to drinke? you hauehave talked a great while, and much talke is thursty.The Lordes fall to drinking. I will leaue M. Doctour and him reasoning together a while, with your leaue, and will come to you by and by agayne. He went (as I suppose) to make rowme for more drinke, after the Lordes had dronken.
Rich.
My Lord Rich sayde to the Lordes, I praye you let the poore man drinke, for hee is thirsty: and with that,Lord Rich biddeth M. Philpot drinke. hee called for a cup of drinke, and gaue it me, and I dranke before them all: God requite it hym, for I was a thyrst indeede. Afterwardes Doctor Chadsey began in this wise, making a great processe, of the which this is the effect.
Chadsey.
M. Philpot findeth fault with the Conuocation house before your Lordships, that he hath layne this long in prison, and that he had there a dosen Arguments,Chadsey beginneth to dispute with M. Philpot. wherof he could not be suffred to prosecute one throughly, whiche is not so, for he had *1. Vntruth.leaue to say what he could & was aunswered to asmuche as he was able to bring: and when he had *2. Vntrth.nothing els to say, he fell to weeping.4. Vntruthes of Chadsey, at on… clappe. I was there present and can testifie therof: albeit there is a book abroad of the report of the disputation to the contrary in ye which there is *3. Vntruth.neuer a true worde. And where as you require to be satisfied of the sacrament, I will shew you the *4. Vntruth.trueth therof, both by the scriptures, and by the Doctors.
Philpot.
It is a shrewed lykelihoode that you will conclude with any truth, since you hauehave begonne with so many vntruthes,M. Philpot answereth D. Chadsey. as to say that I was aunswered whiles I had any thyng to say, and that I wept for lacke of matter to say, and that the booke of the reporte of the disputation is nothing true. God be praysed, there were a good many of Noble men, Gentlemen, and worshipfull men yt heard and saw the doings therof, which can testifie that you here hauehave made an vniust report before these honorable Lords. And that I wept was not for lacke of matter, as you slaū der me: for I thank God, I hauehave more matter thē ye best of you all shall euer be able to answere, as litle learning as I hauehave: but my weeping was, as Christes was vponupon Hierusalem seeing the destruction that should fall vppon her: and I foreseeing then ye destruction whiche you (thorough violence and vnrighteousnesse, which you there declared) would worke agaynst the true Churche of Christ and his faythfull members (as this daye beareth witnesse) was compelled to weepe in remembraunce of that whiche I wt infinite more hauehave felt and shall feele.
Al these words I did then speake out, being interrupted by my Lord Rich, saying that I shoulde suffer hym to proceede out in his matter,Iohn Philpot interrupted in his aunswere. and afterwardes I shuld hauehave leysure to aunswere him in eueryevery Article. But he promysed more then he could performe as the end did wel declare for he had not the consent of the spiritualtie to his promise, which now rule the rost. God shorten their cruell dayes,Prayse be to the Lord, for so he hath. for his electes sake. And therfore I adde this, which I had purposed to hauehave spoken if then I might hauehave bene suffered, least any that perfectly know not the thinges done in the Conuocation house and now layd to my charge, if they shoulde not be aunswered by me, might recken Doctour Chadseys sayinges to bee true. And as concerning the booke of the report of the disputations, I wrote the same & it is true in eueryevery argument, as M. Deane of Roochester, and M. Cheyney Archdeacon of Herford (yet being aliue, and within the realme) can testifie.
Chadsey.
You hauehave of scriptures the foure Euangelistes for the probation of Christes reall presence to be in the sacrament after the wordes of consecration, with S. Paule to the Corinthians: whiche all saye: Hoc est corpus meum: This is my body. They say not as you woulde hauehave me to beleue,Chadsey proueth the Sacrament by the 6. of Iohn. this is not the bodye. But specially the 6. of Iohn prooueth the same most manifestly, where Christ promised to geue his body, which hee performed in his last supper, as it appeareth by these wordes. Panis quem ego dabo, caro mea est, quam ego dabo pro mūdi vita: The bread whiche I wyll geue is my flesh, which I wil geue for the life of the world.
Phil.
My Lord Rich, with your leaue, I must needes interrupt him a litle, because he speaketh open blasphemy against ye death of Christ: for if that promise brought in by s. Iohn was performed by Christ in his last supper, thē needed he not to hauehave dyed after he had geuen the sacrament.
Rich.
Let maister Doctour make an end of his argumēts, and afterward obiect to him what you can.
Chadsey.
You must note that there is twise *So is there twise Ego too, and yet but one naturall body.Dabo in thys saying of S. Iohn, & the first is referred to the sacrament of the au…tar: & the second to ye sacrifice vponupon the crosse: and besides these manifest scriptures, there bee many auncient Doctors proouing the same, as Ignatius, Irenaeus, & S. Cyprian (whose authoritie he recited at large) which I do omitte because I was not permitted to answere the same.
Rich.
Now aunswere, and obiect to him what you can, & you shalbe heard.
Phil.
My Lord, the chiefest ground where he with the rest of his side do ground thēselues agaynst vsus,Iohn Philpot aunswereth with protestation. be these words This is my body, with a false pretence of the omnipotency of God. And before I will come to the particular aunsweres of all that he hath alledged, for that your Lordships may ye better vnderstand me, what I meane and whereuppon I stand, I will require mayster Doctor to aunswere me one question. But first of all I do protest to your honours that I thinke as reuerently of the sacrament, as a christian mā ought to do, and that I acknowledge the sacrament of the body and bloud of Christe, ministred after Christes Institution, to bee one of the greatest treasures and comfortes that he left vsus on the earth: and contrariwise it is most discomfort and abhominable, not being ministred as it ought to be, as it is vsed now a dayes. And now to my question, which is this:A question of Iohn Philpot. whether these wordes onelyonly: Hoc est corpus meum: This is my body, spoken by a priest ouer the bread and wine, may make the body and bloud of Christ, as you suppose or no?
Chedsey.
Staggering what he might say, at last hee sayd, that these wordes alone pronounced by the Priest, be sufficient to make the bread and the wyne the very bodye and bloud of Christ really.
Philpot.
Blasphemy to say that these wordes onelyonly [this is my body] make a reall presence.That is blasphemy to say, and agaynst al ye scriptures and Doctours, who affirme that the forme and substance in consideration must be obserued whiche Christ vsed and did institute as S. Cyprian sayth: In sacrificio quod Christus est, non nisi Christus sequendus: In the sacrifice whiche is Christ, onelyonly is Christ to be followed. And by the lawe it is forbidden to adde or take away from Gods word. And S. Peter sayth,Cypri. lib. …. Epistol. 3. These wordes [blesse, take, and eate] be as substanciall pointes of the Sacrament, as [this is my body.] Hereof reade more in the examinations of M. Bradford. If anye man speake, let him speake as the worde of God. Wherfore whosoeuer sayth that these wordes onelyonly: This is my body, do make a presence of christ, without, blesse, take, and eate, which be three as substanciall poyntes of the Sacramente as, Thys is my bodye, is, he is highly deceiued.
Therfore S. Austen sayth, Accedat verbum ad elementum & fit sacramentum: Let the word be ioyned to the element, and it be commeth a sacrament: So that if the entier worde of Christes Institution be not obserued in the ministration of a Sacrament, it is no sacrament: as the sacrifices which the ten tribes did offer at Bethell to God, were not acceptable because they were not in all poyntes done according to Gods word. Wherfore except blessing be made after the word (whiche is a due thankesgeuing for our redemption in Christ) and also a shewing forth of the Lordes death in such wise as the congregation may be edified: and moreouer a taking and eating after Christes commaundement: except (I say) these three partes be first performed (which is not done in the Masse) these wordes: This is my bodye, which are last placed in the Institution of the Lords supper, can not be verified. For Christe commaunded aswell, Take, ye, eate ye, as This is my body.
Chadsey.
Christ sayd: Take, eate, this is my body, and not, take ye,M. Doctor taken with the maner. eate ye.
Phil.
No did Mayster Doctour? Be not these the wordes of Christ: Accipite manducate? and do not these wordes in the plurall number signifie, Take ye, eate ye: and not take thou, eate thou, as you would suppose?
Chadsey.
I graunt it as you say.
Phil.
Likewise of consequencie, you (Mayster Doctour) must needes deny, which you hauehave sayd, that these words, This is my body, being onelyonly spoken, be sufficient to make ye body and bloud of Christe in the sacrament, as you hauehave vntruely sayd.
London.
Then came in the bishop agayne, and sayd, what is it that you would hauehave mayster Doctor deny?
Phil.
My Lord M. Doctor hath affirmed that these words This is my body, spoken by the prieste, onelyonly doe make the sacrament.
London.
In deede if mayster Briges shoulde speake these wordes ouer the bread and wine,The w…rds of Chr… [this is … body] …cept a … speake … body. they woulde be of none effect: but if a priest speake them after a due maner, they are effectuall, and make a reall body.
Phil.
Mayster Doctor hath sayd otherwise.
London.
I thinke you mistake him: for hee meaneth of the wordes duely pronounced.
Philpot.
Let hym reuoke that he hath graunted, and then will I begin agayne with that whiche before was sayde: that, This is my bodye, hath no place, except, blesse, take, and eate, duely go before. And therfore because the same words do not go before This is my body, but preposterously follow in your sacrament of the Masse, it is not the sacrament of Christ, neither hath Christ in it present.
Chadsey.
If, This is my body, onelyonly do not make the Sacrament, no more do, blesse, take, and eate.
Philpot.
I graunt that the one without the other cannot make the sacrament. And it can be no sacrament vnlesse yt whole action of Christ doth concurre together accordynge to the first Institution.
Chadsey.
Why, then you will not hauehave it to be the bodye of Christ, vnlesse it be receaued.
Phil.
No verely, it is not the very body of Christ to none other,Sacraments without their vse, be no Sacramentes. but to such as condignely receaue the same after hys Institution.
London.
Is not a loafe a loafe, being set on ye table though no body eate therof.
Phil.
It is not like my Lord. For a loafe is a loafe before it …e set on the Table:The Sacrament of the Lords body without receauing, is no Sacrament. but so is not the Sacrament a perfecte Sacrament before it be duely ministred at the table of the Lord.
London.
I pray you, what is it in the meane while, before it is receaued.
Phil.
It is (my Lord) the signe begon of a holy thing, & yes no perfect sacrament vntill it be receaued. For in the sacrament there be two thinges to be considered, the signe and the thing it selfe, which is Christ and hys whole Passion, & it is that to none but to such as worthily receaue the holy signes of bread & wine, according to Christes institutiō.
Winsor.
There were neuer none, that denyed the words of Christ as you do. Did he not say: This is my body?
Philpot.
My Lord, I pray you be not deceaued. We do not deny the wordes of Christ: but we say,As Baptisme, … no baptisme but to the child … is … and not … the … by: so … Sacrament of the body is no Sacrament but to them that worthely receaue. these wordes bee of none effect, being spoken otherwise then Christe did institute them in hys last supper. For an example: Chryst biddeth the churche to baptise in the name of the father, the sonne, and the holy Ghost: if a Priest say those wordes ouer ye water and there bee no childe to be Baptised, those wordes onelyonly pronounced doe not make Baptisme. And agayne, Baptisme is not onelyonly Baptisme to suche as bee baptised, and to none other standing by.
L. Chamb.
I pray you my Lord, let me aske him one question. What kinde of presence in the sacrament (duely minystred according to Christes ordinaunce) do you allow?
Philpot.
If any come worthely to receaue, then do I confesse the presence of Christ wholy to bee, with all ye fruites of his Passion, vntounto the sayd worthy receauer, by the spyrite of God, and that Christ is therby ioyned to hym and he to Christ.
L. Chamb.
I am aunswered.
London.
My Lordes take no heede of him, for hee goeth about to deceaue you. His similitude that he bryngeth in of Baptisme, is nothing like to the sacrament of the aultar. For if I should say to sir Iohn Briges beyng with me at supper, & hauing a fat Capō, take, eate, this is a fat Capon although he eate not thereof, is it not a Capon still? And likewise of a peece of Beefe, or of a cup of wyne, if I saye:My Lor… … better … Capon, … in … Sacra… ▪ drinke, this is a good cup of wyne, is it not so, because hee drinketh not therof?
Phil.
My lord your similitudes be to grosse for so high misteryes as wee hauehave in hande, as if I were your equall, I could more playnly declare, and there is much more dissimilitude betweene common meates and drinkes then there is betweene baptisme and the sacramente of the body and bloud of Christ. Like must be compared to lyke. & spir…tuall things with spirituall, and not spirituall things wt corporall things. And meates and drinkes be of theyr owne natures good or euill, and your woordēs commending or discommēding, do but declare what they are. But the sacraments be to be considered according to the worde which Christ spake of them, of the which, Take ye, & eate ye, besome of the chiefe, concurrent to the making o… ye same, without the which there can be no sacraments: and therfore in Greeke, the Sacrament of the body and bloude of Christ is called foreign .i. Communion, and likewyse in the Gospell Christe commaunded, saying: Diuidite inter vos. i. Diuide it among you.
Chadsey.
S. Paule calleth it a Communication.
Phil.
That doeth more expresly shew that there must be a participation of the Sacrament together.
Lon.
My Lords, I am sory I hauehave troubled you so long with this obstinate man, with whom we can do no good: I wil trouble you no longer now:… and with yt the Lordes rose vp; none of them saying any euil worde vntounto me, half amazed, in my iudgement, God worke it to good.
Thus endeth the sixt part of this Tragedie: The seuenth looke for with ioy.