Acts and Monuments Volume 2 Part 2, Book 11 · Account 18 · Examination 7 – Examination 8
The vij. examination of Iohn Philpot, had the xix. of Nouember before the Bishops of London and Rochester, the Chauncellour of Lichfield, and Doctour Chadsey.
LOndon
Syrha come hither. How chance you come no sooner? It is wel done of you to make master Chauncellor and me to tary for you this houre?… by the faith of my body, halfe an houre before masse, and halfe an houre euen at masse, looking for your comming?
Phil.
My Lorde, it is not vnknowen to you, that I am a prisoner, and that the doores be shut vponupon me, & I can not come when I list: but as soone as the dores of my prison were open, I came immediately.
London.
We sen… for thee, to the intent thou shouldest hauehave come to Masse. Howe say you, woulde you hauehave come to Masse or no, if the doores had sooner bene opened?
Phil.
My Lord, that is an other maner of question.
Lon.
Loe maister Chauncellour, I tolde you we shoulde hauehave a froward fellow of him: he will answere directly to nothing. I hauehave had him before both spiritual Lords and the temporall, and thus he fareth stil: yet he reckeneth him selfe better learned then all the realme. Yea, before ye temporall Lordes the other day,… he was so foolish to chalenge the best: he woulde make him selfe learned, and is a verye moraunt foole in deede.
Phil
I recken I answeared your Lordshippe before the Lordes plaine enough.
London.
Why answearest thou not directly, whether thou wouldest hauehave gone to Masse with vsus or no, if thou haddest c…me in time?
Phil.
Mine answere shall be thus, that if your Lordship can prooue your masse, whereunto you would hauehave me to come, to be the true seruice of God, wherunto a Christian ought to come, I will afterward come with a good will.
London.
Loke I pray you: the King and the Queene, and all the Nobilitie of the realme doe come to Masse, and yet he will not.… By my faith thou art too well handled: thou shalt be worse handled hereafter, I warrant thee.
Phil.
If to lie in a blind Colehouse, may be counted good handling, both without fire & candle, then may it be sayd, I am well handled. Your lordship hath power to entreat my body as you list.
Lond.
Thou art a foole, and a very ignoraunt foole. Maister Chauncellour, in good faith I hauehave handled hym and his fellowes with as much gentlenesse as they can desire. I lette their frends come vntounto them to relieue them. And wot ye what? the other day they had gottē themselues vp into the top of the leades with a many of preutises, gasing abroad as though they had bene at libertie: but I shall cut of your resort: and as for the prentises, they were as good not to come to you, if I take them.
Philpot.
My Lord, we hauehave no such resorte to vsus as your Lordship imagin…th, and there commeth very fewe vntounto vsus. And of prentises I know not one, neither hauehave we any leades to walke on ouer our Colehouse,… that I wot of: wherfore your Lordship hath mistaken your marke.
Lond.
Nay, nowe you thinke (because my Lorde Chauncellour is gone) that we wil burne no mo: yes I warrant thee, I will dispatch you shortly, vnlesse yo… do recant.
Phil.
My lord, I had not thought that I shuld hauehave ben … now,… neither so raw as I am, but wel rosted to ashes.
Chaunc.
Case not your selfe wilfully away M. Philpot. Be content to be ruled by my lord here, and by other learned men of this realme, and you may do wel inough.
Phil.
My conscience beareth me recorde yt I seeke to please God, & that the louelove and feare of God causeth me to do as I doe: and I were of all other creatures most miserable, if for mine owne will onelyonly I did loose all the commodities I might hauehave in this life,M. Philpot standeth vponupon his conscience & the feare of God. and afterward to be cast to damnation. But I am sure, it is not my wil wheron I stande, but Gods will, which will not suffer me to be cast away, I am sure.
Chaunc.
You are not so sure, but you may be deceiued.
Lon.
Well, since thou wilt not be conformable by no faire meane, I will procede against thee Ex officio, B. Boner proceedeth Ex officio with Maister Philpot.and therefore harken here to such articles as I hauehave heere wrytten, and I charge thee to make answere to them: and with that he red a li…ell which hee had in his hand of diuers Articles, and when he had done, he bad me answere.
Philpot.
Your libel (my lord) containeth in summe, 2. speciall poyntes: The first pretendeth, that I should be of your dioces, and therefore your lordship vponupon diuers suspectes & infamies of heresie going vponupon me, is moued to procede against me by your ordinarie office:2. Vntruthes in the Bishops articles. the which first is not true, for that I am not of your Lordships diocesse, as the libel doth pretēd. And the second is, that I being baptised in the catholicke church, and in ye catholicke faith, am gone from them: the which is not so, for I am of that catholicke faith and church as I was baptised vntounto.
London.
What? art thou not of my Dioces? Where are ye now, I pray you?
Phil.
My lord, I can not deny but I am in your cole house, which is your diocesse: yet am I not of your diocesse.
Lond.
You were sent hether vntounto me by the Queenes maiesties commissioners, and thou art nowe in my diocesse: wherefore I will proceede against thee as thy Ordinarie.
Phil.
I was brought hether through violence, and therefore my present being now in your diocesse, is not inough to abridge me of mine owne ordinary iurisdiction,Iohn Philpot chalengeth the priuiledge of his ordinary ryght. neither maketh it mee vnwillingly subiecte to your iurisdiction since it commeth by force, and by such men as had no iust authority so to doe, no more then a sanctuarie man being by force brought forth of his place of priuiledge, doth ther by lose his priuiledge, but alwaies may chalenge the same where soeuer he be brought.
Chadsey.
Hath not the Queenes maiestie authoritie by her commissioners, to remoue your body whether shee will? and ought you not to obey heerein.
Phil.
I graunt yt the Queenes maiestie (of her iust power) may trāspose my body, whether it shall please her grace to commaunde the same. But yet by your lawes.Spiritual things are not subiect to temporall powers, and therefore the temporall commissioners had no power to remoue him into an other mans dioces. Spiritualia non sunt subiecta Imperatoris potestati. i. Spiritual causes be not subiect to the temporal power. As for example: you M. doctor if the Queenes maiestie woulde appoynt two temporall men to be iudges ouer you in certaine spirituall matters, might not you alledge the priuiledge of a clearke, demaund competent spirituall iudges in your causes?
London,
Doth not a man (I pray you) sortiri forum ratione delecti?
Phil.
My Lord, your rule is true in temporal matters, but in spirituall causes it is not so: which be otherwise priuiledged.
London.
What sayest thou then to the seconde article, and to the other?
Phil.
My Lord, I say that I am not bound to answere the second, neither the rest, vnlesse the first be prooued.
London.
Well, suppose the first may be prooued (as it will be) what wil you say then to the second, that you are not of the same catholicke faith, neither of the same church now, as you were baptised in?
Phil.
I am of the same catholicke faith, and of the same catholicke church which is of Christ, the piller and stablishment of truth.
London.
Nay that you are not.
Phil.
Yes that I am.
London.
Your Godfathers and Godmothers were of an other faith then you be now.
Phil.
I was not baptised neither into my Godfathers faith nor my Godmothers, but into the faith,A man is not baptised into his godfathers fayth nor his godmothers fayth: but into the fayth of Christes church. Iohn Philpot proueth his church to be from Christ. & into the church of Christ.
London.
How know you that?
Phil.
By the word of God, which is the touchstone of faith and the limites of the Church.
Lon.
Howe long hath your church stand I pray you?
Phil.
Euen from the beginning, from Christ and from his Apostles, and from their immediate successors.
Chaun.
He will prooue his church to be before Christ.
Phil.
If I did so, I goe not amisse: for there was a church before the comming of Christe, which maketh one catholicke church.
Chaun.
It is so in deede.
Phil.
I will desire no better rule then the same whiche is oftentimes brought in of your side, to proue both my faith and the catholicke church: that is, antiquitie, vniuersality, and vnitie.
Lond.
Do you not see what a bragging foolish felow this is? He would seeme to be very well seene in the Doctors, and he is but a foole.No rule better then Antiquity, Vniuersalitie, & Vnitie, to proue the true fayth & Church of the Protestantes. Because you dare not. By what Doctour arte thou able to proue thy Church? Name him, and thou shalt hauehave him.
Phil.
My Lorde, lette me hauehave all your auncient wryters with pen, and inke, and paper, and I will prooue both my faith and my Church out of eueryevery one of them.
Lond.
No that thou shalt not hauehave. You shall see howe he lieth. S. Cyprian sayeth, there must be one high Priest, to the which the residue must obey, and they will allowe no heade, neither Uicar generall.
Phil.
S. Cyprian saith not, that there shoulde be a Uicare general ouer al. For in his booke De simplicitate Praelatorū, I am sure he saith the contrary:S. Cyprian meaneth eueryevery church to hauehave his owne gouernour not all churches to be vnderunder one, Vnus episcopatus est, cuius pars in solidum a singulis tenetur. i. There is but one bishopricke which is wholy possessed of eueryevery Bishop in part.
London.
Fet hether the booke, thou shalt see the manifest place against thee.
D. Chadsey brought the booke, and turned to the place in an Epistle wryttē vntounto Cornelius, then bish. of Rome, and recited these words in summe, that it went not wel with the Church, Cypri lib. 1. Epist. 3.where the high Priest was not obeied, & so would hauehave concluded for the confirmation of ye Bishops saying.
Phil.
M. Doctour you misconstrue the place of S. Cyprian: for he meaneth not thereby the high Priest, the bishop of Rome:The place of S. Ciprian explaned. but eueryevery Patriarke in his precincte, of whome there were 4. appoynted in his time. And in wryting vntounto Cornelius he meaneth by ye high priest, himselfe, which was then chief Bishop of Africa, whose authority the heretickes began to despise. Wherof he complaineth to Cornelius, & sayth: the church can not be well ordered, where ye chief minister by order, after the iudgement of the scriptures, after the agreement of the people, and the consent of his fellow Bishops, is not obeied.
Lond.
Hath not the Bishop of Rome alwaies bene supreme head of the Church, and Christes Uicare in earth euen from Peter?
Phil.
No, that he was not. For by ye word of God he hath no more authoritie,The Bishop of Rome no more head of the Church, then the B. of Londō. then the Bishop of London hath.
London.
Was not Peter head of the Churche? And hathe not the Bishop of Rome, which is his successour, the same authoritie▪
Phil.
I graunt that the B. of Rome, as he is the successor of Peter, hath the same authority as Peter had: but Peter had no more authority,Peter had no more authoritye ouer the church then eueryevery one of the Apostles. then eueryevery one of the apostles had.
Chauncel.
Yes that S. Peter had: for Christ said specially vntounto him: Tibi dabo claues regni coelorum: I wil geue thee the keies of the kingdom of heauen: The which he spake to none other of his Disciples singularly but to him.
Phil.
S. Augustine answereth otherwise to the obiection, and sayeth: That if in Peter there had not bene the figure of the Church, Peter beareth but a figure of the Church.the Lord hadde not saide to him, to thee will I geue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen. The which if Peter receiued not, the Churche hath them not. If the Churche hath them, then Peter hath them not.
Lond.
What if I can prooue and shew you out of the Ciuill lawe, that all Christendome ought to folowe the holy Catholicke Churche of Rome,B. Boners diuinity lieth much in the ciuill lawe. as there is a speciall title thereof, De Catholica fide & sancta Romana Ecclesia.
Phil.
That is nothing material, seeing the things of God be not subiect to mans lawes: and Diuine matters must be ordered by the word of God, and not of man.
A Doctour.
What will you say, if I can prooue that Christ builded his Church vppon Peter, and that out of S. Cyprian?Cyprian. Wil you then beleue that the B. of Rome ought to be supreme head of the Church?
Phil.
I know what S. Cyprian wryteth in that behalfe: but he meaneth nothing as you take it.
A Doctour.
S. Cyprian hath these woordes: Quòd super Petrum fundata fuit Ecclesia, tanquam super originem vnitatis. That vponupon Peter was builded the Church, as vppon the first beginning of vnitie.
Phil.
He declareth that in an example, that vnitie must be in the church:The place of Cyprian expounded. he grounded on Peter his church alone, and not vpō men. The which he doth more manifestly declare in the booke De simplicitate Praelatorum, saying: In persona vnius Christus dedit omnibus claues, vt omnium vnitatem denotaret. In the person of one man God gaue the keyes to al, that he in signification thereby might declare the vnitie of all men.
A Doctour.
What? will you vnderstande S. Cyprian so? That were good in deede.
Phil
I thinke you can not vnderstand s. Cyprian better, then he doth declare him selfe.
Lond.
I will desire you (M. Chauncellour) to take some paines with M. Doctor Chadsey, aboute his examination,B. Boner goeth to the Parlament. for I must go to the Parlament house. And I wil desire you to dine with me.
Phil.
Then the D. tooke againe his former authoritie in hand for want of another, and would hauehave made a farther circumstance, digressing from his purpose. To whome I said, he knew not whereabout he went, and therewith he laughed. And I saide, his diuinitie was nothing but scoffing.
M D.
Yea? then I hauehave done with you: and so went away.
Phil.
You are too yong in diuinitie to teach me in the matters of my faith.M. D. … Though you be learned in other things more then I, yet in Diuinitie I hauehave ben longer practised then you, for any thing I can heare of you: therfore be not too hastie to iudge that you doe not perfectly know.
Chauncel.
Peter and his successours from the beginning hauehave bene allowed for the supreme head of ye Church, and that by the Scriptures, for that Christ sayde vntounto hym in S. Iohn thrise: Feede my sheepe, pasce oues meas.
Phil.
That is none otherwise to be taken, then Ite, The … of … Peter … my …praedicate, go ye & preach: which was spoken to all the Apostles, as well as vntounto Peter. And that Christ sayd thrise: Pasce oues meas, Feede my sheepe, it signifieth nothing else but the earnest studie that the ministers of God oughte to hauehave in preaching the woord.… God graunt that you of the Cleargie would way your duetie in this behalfe more then you doe. Is this a iust interpretation of the Scripture, to take pasce oues meas, for to be lord of the whole world? In this meane while came in a Batcheler of Diuinitie, which is a reader of Greeke in Oxford belonging to the Bishop, and he tooke vponupon him to helpe M. Chancellor.
Scholer.
What wil you say if I can shew you a Greke author called Theophilact, to interprete it so? wil you beleue his interpretation?
Phil.
Theophilacte is a late wryter, and one that was a fauourer of the B. of Rome:… and therefore not to be credited since his interpretation is contrary to the manifest words of the scripture, and contrary to the determination of many general Councels.
Scholer.
In what general Councel was it otherwise, that the Bishop of Rome, was not supreme head ouer all.
Phil.
In Nice Councell I am sure it was otherwise: for Athanasius was there the chiefe Bishop and president of the Counsell, and not the Bishop of Rome.In Nice counsell … B. o… … was no …
Scholer.
Nay, that is not so.
Phil.
Then I perceiue you are better sene in wordes then in knowledge of things: and I will gage with you what you will, it is so: as you maye see in the Epitome of the Councels.
Scholer.
I will set Eusebius and shew the contrary, and the booke of general Councels. He went into my Lordes closet, and brought Eusebius:The scholer of Oxford shrinketh away. but the generall Councels he brought not, saying (for sauing of his honestie) that hee could not come by them, and there he wold hauehave defended that it was otherwise in Eusebius, but was not able to shew the same, and so shranke away confounded.
Chaun.
The church of Rome hath bene alwaies taken for the whole catholike church: therefore I would aduise you to come into the same with vsus. You see all the men of this realme do cōdemne you. And why wil you be so singular.
Phil.
I hauehave said, and stil do say, that if you can be able to proue it vntounto me, that I wil be of the same. But I am sure that the Churche whiche you make so muche of,The … side notable to proue the Church to be the holy catholick church. is a false church, and a synagoge of satan. And you with the learned men of the realme doe persecute the true church, and condemne such as be more righteous then you.
Chaun.
Do you heare (M. doctor) what he sayeth, that the church of Rome is the deuill?
Chad.
I wish you did thinke more reuerently of ye church of Rome. What will you say if I can shewe you out of S. Austen in his Epistle wrytten vntounto Pope Innocentius,3. Blind coniect… out of … epistle of Austen to … prouing the Sea of Rome to be suprea…e head. The … Bishop from … tyme. The … may be cal▪ that the whole general Councell of Carthage did allowe the church of Rome to be chiefest ouer all other?
Phil.
I am sure you can shewe no such thing. And wt that he set the booke of S. Austine, and tourned to the Epistle: but he could not prooue his allegation manifestly, but by coniectures in this wise.
Chad.
Here you may see yt the councel of Carthage writing to Innocent. the bish. calleth the sea of Rome the apostolike sea. And besides this they write vntounto him, certifying him of thinges done in ye councel for the condemnation of the Donatistes, requiring his approbations in the same, which they would not hauehave done, if they had not taken the church of Rome for ye supreme head of others. And moreouer you may see howe s. Austine doth proue the church of Rome to be the catholike church by cōtinuall succession of the B. vntil his time, which succession we can proue vntil our daies: therfore by the same reason of s. Austine we say now, that the church of Rome is the catholicke church.
Phil.
M. Doctour, I hauehave considered how you do weigh S. Augustine:… The …cope of S. Augustines argument is … the Church of Rome therfore … in the doctrine because it hath … Bishops from the Apostles, but … Donatistes to be schismatickes, … Churche of Rome continuing … the doctrine of the Apostles, … still succession of … the Apostles tyme, yet they … the vnitye of that Churche, … other Churche of their owne. The Argument is this. … from that Churche which … succession of Bishops … Apostles, and keepeth the … still in fayth and doctrine, is … the vnitye of the Churche, and to …. The Donatistes doe so from the Church …, hauing no iust cause of doctrine … to doe. … ▪ the … ▪ and contrary to his meaning and wordes, you wou…d inferre your false cōclusion. As cōcerning that it was called by him the Apostolicall Sea, that is not material to proue the church of Rome now to be ye catholicke church. I will grau…t it now that it is the Apostolicke sea in re…pect that Paule and Peter did once there preach the Gospell, and abode there for a certaine season. I woulde you could prooue it to be the Apostolicall sea of y• true religion and sinceritie as the Apostle left it, and did teach the same: the which if ye could doe, you might boast of Rome as of the Apostolicall sea: otherwise it is nowe of no more force, then if the Turke at Antioch & at Ierusalem should boast of the Apostolike seas, because the Apostles once did there abide, and founded the church of Christ.
And where as that the whole Councell of Carthage did wryte vntounto Pope Innocentius, certifying him of that was done in the general councell, & willing him to set his helping hand to the suppressing of the Donatistes, as they had done, that facte of the Councell prooueth nothing the supremacie of the B. of Rome, no more then if the whole Conuocation house now gathered together, and agreeing vponupon certaine articles, might send ye same to some bishop, that vppon certaine impediments is not present, willing him to agree therto, & to set them forth in his dioces. The which fact doth not make any such bish. of greater authoritie then ye rest, because his consent is brotherly required.
And touching the succession of the Bishops of Rome brought in by s. Austen, it maketh nothing nowe thereby to proue ye same catholike church, vnles you can conclude wt the same reason as s. Austen doth. And the rehersall of the succession of the bishops doth tende to this only, to proue y• Donatistes to be heretickes, because they began aswell at Rome as in Affrica, to founde an other church of their own setting vp then was grounded by Peter and Paul, and by their successors, whome he reciteth vntill his time, which all taughte no such doctrine, neither no suche church as the Donatists. And if presently you be able to prooue by the bishops of Rome (wherof you do glory) that such doctrine hath ben taught by any of the successors of Peters sea, as is nowe taught & beleeued of vsus, you hauehave good reason against vsus: otherwise it is of no force, as I am able to declare.
Chaunc.
…Wel M. Doctour, you see we can doe no good in persuading of him: let vsus minister the Articles, which my Lord hath left vsus, vntounto him. How say you M. Philpot to these articles? M. Ihonsō, I pray you write his answers.
Phil
M. Chauncellor, you hauehave no authoritie to enquire … my beliefe in such articles as you goe about, for that I am not of my Lord of Londons Dioces: and to be brief with you, I will make no further answere heerein, then I hauehave already to the Bishop.
Chaunc
Why, then let vsus go our waies, and let his keper take him away.
Thus endeth the vij. part of this Tragedie.
The summe of a priuate conference or talke betwene M. Philpot and the Bishop.
PHil.
The next day in the morning betime, the Byshop sent one of his mē vntounto me,… to cal me vp into his chappell to heare Masse.
Bishops man.
Maister Philpot where be you?
Phil.
Who is that calleth me?
Bishops man.
My Lords wil is, you should rise and come to heare Masse: wil you come or no?
Phil.
My stomacke is not verye good this morning: you may tell my Lorde I am sicke. After this the Keeper was sen… to bring me to my Lord.
The keper.
M. Philpot, you must rise & come to my Lord.
Phil.
I am at your commaundement (M. Keeper) assoone as I can:… to their dinner afterward as they hauehave, as i… they had eaten neuer a bit of meate before▪ Iohn Philpot refu…eth to aunswer… but in open iudgement▪ Iohn Philpot commaun…ed to be set in the stockes in the Colehou…e. and going out of the prison he asked me, saying:
The Keeper.
Will you goe to Masse?
Phil.
My stomacke is to raw to digest such raw meates of flesh, bloud and bone this morning. After this my Keeper presented me to the Bishop in his Hall.
Lond.
M. Philpot, I charge you to answere to such Articles as my Chapleine, and my Register hauehave from me to ob…ect against you, go and answer them.
Phil.
My Lord, Omnia iudicia debent es…e publica: All iudgements ought to be publicke. Therfore if your Lordship hauehave any thing to charge mee lawfully withall, lette mee be in iudgement lawfully and openly called, and I wil answer according to my duetie: otherwise in corners I will not.
London.
Thou art a foolish knaue I see wel inough: thou shalt aunswere whether thou wilt or no. Goe thy waies with them I say.
Phil.
I may well go with them at your Lordships pleasure: but I will make them no further answeare then I hauehave said already.
Lond.
No wilt thou knaue? HaueHave him away, and set him in the stockes. What foolish knaue?
Phil.
In deeds (my Lord) you handle me with others like fooles: and we muste be content to be made fooles at your handes▪ stockes and violence is your Bishoplike almes. You goe about by force in corners to oppresse, & be ashamed that your doings should come to light: God shorten your cruel kingdom for his mercies sake. And I was put by and by into the stocks, in an house alone, seperate from my fellowes. God be praised yt he hath thought me woorthy to suffer any thing for his names sake. Better it is to sit in the stockes of this world, then to sit in the stockes of a damnable conscience.