Acts and Monuments Volume 2 Part 2, Book 11 · Account 18 · Examination 5
*The 5. examination of Iohn Philpot, had before the Bishops of London, Rochester, Couentry, S. Asses (I trow) and one other, whose Seas I know not, Doctor Story, Curtop, Doctor Sauerson, Doctor Pendleton, with diuers other Chaplaynes and Gentlemen of the Queenes Chamber and diuers other Gentlemen, in the Gallery of my Lord of Londons Palace.
BOner.
M. Philpot come you hither, I hauehave desyred my Lordes here and other learned mē to take some paines once agayne,The 5. examination of M. Philpot. and to do you good: & because I do minde to sit in iudgement on you to morow (as I am commaūded) yet I would you should hauehave as much fauor as I cā shew you, if you wilbe any thing cōformable. Therfore play the wise man, and be not singuler in your opiniō, but be ruled by these learned men.
Phil.
My Lord, in that you say you will sit on me in iudgement to morrow, I am glad thereof. For I was promised by them which sent me vntounto you, that I should hauehave bene iudged the next day after:Iohn Philpot ready to … his life i… Christes …. but promise hath not bene kepte with me, to my farther griefe. I looke for none other but death at your hands, and I am as ready to yeld my life in Christes cause, as you be to require it.
Boner.
Lo what a wilfull man this is? By my fayth it is but folly to reasō with him, neither with any of these heretickes. I am sory that you wilbe no more tractable, & that I am compelled to shew extremity agaynst you.
Phil.
My Lord, you need not to shew extremity against me v…les you list: neither by ye law (as I hauehave sayd) you hauehave any thing to do with me, for that you are not mine Ordynary, albeit I am (contrary to all right) in your prison.
Boner.
Why, the Queenes Commissioners sent you hither vntounto me vponupon you examination had before them. I know not well the cause: but I am sure thhy would not hauehave sent you hither to me, vnles you had made some talke to them, otherwise then it becommeth a christian man.
Phil.
My Lorde, in deede they sent me hither without any occasion then ministred by me. OnelyOnly they layd vntounto me ye disputation I made in the Conuocation house, requyring me to aunswere the same, and to recant it. The which because I would not do, they sēt me hither to your lordship,
Boner.
Why did you not aunswere them thereto?
Phil.
For that they were temporall men, & ought not to be iudges in spiritual causes wherof they demaunded me, wt out shewing any authority wherby I was bound to aunswere them, & hereupon they committed me to your prisō.
Boner.
In deed I remember now, you maynteined open heresy in my Dioces:… wherfore the Cōmissioners sent you vntounto me that I shoulde proceede agaynst you, for that you hauehave spoken in my Dioces.
Phil.
My Lord, I stand still vponupon my lawfull plea in this behalfe, that though it were a great heresy as you suppose it, yet I ought not to be troubled therefore in respect of the priuiledge of the Parliament house, wherof the Conuocation house is a member, where al men in matters propoū ded may franckly speake theyr mindes:M. Philpots iust defence … speaking in … Parlament. and here is presēt a Gentleman of the Queenes Maiesties that was presēt at the disputation, and can testifye that the questions whiche were there in controuersy, were not set forth by me, but by the Prolocutor, who required in the Queenes Maiestyes name, all men to dispute theyr mindes freely in the same, that were of the house.
The Queenes Gentleman.
Though the Parliament house be a place of priuiledge for men of the house to speak, yet may none speake any treason agaynst the Queene, or maintein treason agaynst the crowne.
Phil.
But if there be any matter whiche otherwise it were treason to speake of,It were the pa… of a charitable Bishop to ma…e a matter better, and not worse. were it treason for any persō to speak therin, specially the thing being proposed by the speaker? I thinke not.
The Queenes Gentleman.
You may make the matter easy enough to you yet, as I perceiue, if you wil reuoke ye same which you did there so stubbernely mainteine.
S. Asse.
This man did not speake vnderunder reformatiō as manye there did, but foreign and foreign whiche is earnestly and perswa…bly as euer I heard any.
Phil.
My Lordes, since you will not cease to trouble me for that I hauehave lawfully done,Iohn Philpot appealeth to the whole Parlament house. neither will admit my iust defence for that was spoken in the conuocation house by me, contrary to the lawes and custome of the Realme. I appeale to the whole Parliament house, to bee iudged by the same, whether I ought thus to be molested for that I hauehave there spoken.
Rochest.
But hauehave you spoken and maynteyned the same since that time, or no?
Phil.
If any man can charge mee iustly therewith, here I stand to make aunswere.
Rochest.
How say you to it now? will you stād to that you hauehave spoken in the Conuocation house, and do you thinke you sayd then well, or no?
Phil.
My Lorde, you are not mine ordinary to proceede ex officio agaynst me and therfore I am not bound to tell you my conscience of your demaundes.
S. Asse.
What say you now? Is not there in ye blessed sacramēt of ye aultar (& with that they put of al their caps for reuerence of that Idoll) the presence of our Sauiour Christ,This Bishop … like would fayne hauehave bloud. really and substantially after the wordes of consecration?
Phil.
I do beleue in the Sacrament of Christes body duely ministred to be such maner of presēce, as the word teacheth me to beleue.
S. Asse.
I pray you how is that?
Phil.
As for that I will declare an other time when I shall be lawfullye called to dispute my minde of this matter but I am not yet driuen to that point. And the scripture sayth: All thinges ought to be done after an order.
An other Bish.
This is a froward & a vayneglorious man.
Boner.
It is not lawfull for a man by the ciuill lawe to dispute his fayth openly, as it appeareth in the title, De summa trinitate & fide catholica.
Phil.
My Lorde, I hauehave aunswered you to this question before.
Boner.
Why? I neuer asked thee of this before now.B. Boner here forgetteth himselfe.
Phil.
Yes that you did at my last examination, by that token I aunswered your Lordship by S. Ambrose, that the church is congregated by the word, and not by mans law. Wherfore I adde now further of this saying: Quôd qui fidem repudiat, & legem obijcit, iniustus est, quia iustus ex fide vivit. i. That he which refuseth the word, and obiecteth the lawe, Amb. li. 5. Epist. 30. Eodē contr. Auxentium.is an vniust man, because the iust shall liue by fayth. And moreouer (my Lord) the title which your Lordship alledgeth out of the law, maketh it not vnlawfull to dispute of all the articles of the fayth, but of the Trinity.
Boner.
Thou lyest, it is not so? and I will shew you by the Booke how ignoraunt he is. And with that he went with all haste to his study, and fet his booke and openly read the texte and the title of the lawe, and charged mee with suche wordes as seemed to make for his purpose, saying: howe sayst thou to this.
Phil.
My Lord, I say as I sayd before, that the law meaneth of the catholicke fayth determined in the Councell of Calcedonia, where the articles of the creed were onelyonly cō cluded vponupon.
Bon.
Thou art the veriest beast that euer I heard, I must needes speake it, thou compellest me thereunto.
Phil.
Your Lordship may speake your pleasure of me. But what is this to the purpose, which your lordship is so earnest in? You know that our fayth is not grounded vpō the ciuill law:Our fayth not grounded vponupon the ciuil law. therfore it is not materiall to me whatsoeuer the law sayth.
Boner.
By what lawe wilt thou bee iudged? Wilt thou bee iudged by the common law.
Phil.
No my Lord, our fayth depēdeth not vponupon the lawes of man.
S. Asse.
He will be iudged by no law, but as he list himselfe.
Worcest.
The common lawes are but abstractes of ye scriptures and Doctors.
Phil.
Whatsoeuer you do make them, they are no grounde of my fayth, by the which I ought to be iudged.
Boner.
Iohn Philpot still standeth to his defēce of the law, in refusing the iudge, not to be competent.I must needes proceed agaynst thee to morow.
Phil.
If your Lordship so do, I wil hauehave Exceptionem fori, for you are not my competent Iudge.
Bon.
By what law canst thou refu…e me to be thy iudge?
Phil.
By the Ciuill law, De competente Iudice.
Boner.
There is no such title in the law. In what booke is it, as cunning a Lawyer as you be.
Phil.
De officio ordinarij, is a title in the 1. booke of the Decretales. De foro competente, is a title in the 2 booke of the Decretales.My Lorde, I take vponupon me no great cunning in the law: but you driue me to my shiftes for my defence, and I am sure, if I had the books of the law, I were able to shew what I say.
Boner.
What? De competente Iudice? I will go fet thee my bookes. There is a title in deed De officijs Iud…cis ordinarij.
Phil.
Uerely that is the same De competente Iudice, whiche I hauehave alledged. With that he ran to his study, & broughte the whole course of the law betwene his hands, which (as it might appeare) he had wel occupied, by ye dust they were embrued withall.
Boner.
There be the bookes: finde it now (if thou canst) and I will promise thee to release thee out of prison.
Phil.
My Lorde, I stand not here to reason ma…ters of the Ciuill law, although I am not altogether ignorant of the same, for that I hauehave bene a Student in the same sixe or seuen yeares: but to aunswere to the Articles of fayth wyth the which you may lawfully burthē me. And whereas you go about vnlawfully to proceede. I chalenge according to my knowledge, the benefite of the law in my defence.
Boner.
Why, thou wilt aunswere directly to nothing thou art charged withall: therefore saye not hereafter but you might hauehave bene satisfied here by learned mē, if you would hauehave declared your minde.
Phil.
My Lorde, I hauehave declared my minde vntounto you and to other of the Byshops at my last being before you,M. Philpot returneth agayne to his question of the Church. desyring you to be satisfied but of one thing, wherunto I hauehave referred all other controuersies: the whiche if your Lordships now, or other learned men can simply resolue me of, I am as contented to be reformable in all thinges, as you shall require: the which is to proue that ye church of Rome (wherof you are) is the Catholicke Church.
Couen.
Why? do you not beleue your Creed, Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam.
Phil.
Yes that I do: but I cannot vnderstād Rome (wherwith all you burden vsus) to be the same, neither like to it.
S. Asse.
That Peter did build the church of Rome it is false, for both the Scripture sayth, that Peter was set ouer the circumcised, and not ouer the Gentiles, and also it is to be proued by Orosius, Suetonius, Tertullianus, and other storyes, that the fayth of Christ was in Rome in Tyberius tyme before Peter euer sawe Rome.It is most euident that S. Peter did builde the Catholicke Church at Rome. And Christ sayd: Tu es Petrus, & super hanc Petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam.
Moreouer, the succession of bishops in the sea of Rome can be proued from time to time, as it can be of none other place so well, which is a manifest probation of the Catholicke Church, as diuers Doctors do write.
Phil.
That you would hauehave to be vndoubted, is most vncertaine, & yt by the authority which you alledge of Christ, saying vntounto Peter: Thou art Peter, and vponupon this rocke I will build my Church, vnles you can proue the rocke to signifye Rome, as you would make me falsly beleue. And althogh you can prooue the succession of Bishops from Peter, yet this is not sufficient to proue Rome the catholicke church, vnles you can proue the profession of Peters fayth wherevpon the catholick church is builded, to hauehave continued in his successors at Rome, and at this present to remayne.
Bon.
Is there any mo churches thē one catholicke church▪ And I pray you tel me, into what faith were you baptised.
Philpot.
I acknowledge one holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church, wherof I am a member (I prayse God) and I am of that catholicke fayth of Christ, where into I was baptised.
Couen.
I pray you, can you tell what this word Catholicke doth signify?Catholicke. shew if you can.
Phil.
Yes that I can, I thanke God. The catholicke fayth, or the Catholicke Churche is not as now a dayes the people be taught, to be yt which is most vniuersall, or of moste part of men receiued,The popes fayth hangeth vponupon the multitude. whereby you do inferre our fayth to hang vpō the multitude, which is not so, but I esteme the Catholicke Church to be as S. Austen defineth the same. Aestimamus fidem Catholicam a rebus praeteritis, praesentibus, & futuris. Fides catholic… secundum August.i. We iudge (sayth he) the catholicke fayth, of that whiche hath bene, is and shalbe. So that if you can be able to prooue that your fayth and Church hath bene from the beginning taught, and is, and shalbe: then may you coūt your selues Catholicke, otherwise not. And Catholicke is a Greeke word compounded of foreign, which signifieth after or according, and foreign, a summe, or principle, or whole. So that catholicke Church or Catholicke fayth is as much to say, as the first, whole, sound, or chiefest fayth.
Boner.
Doth S. Austen say so as he alledgeth it? or doth he meane as he taketh the same? How say you M. Curtop?
Curtop.
In deed (my Lord) S. Augustine hath such a saying, speaking agaynst the Donatistes, that the Catholicke fayth ought to be estemed of thinges in times past, and as they are practised according to the same, and ought to bee through al ages, and not after a new maner, as the Donatistes began to professe.
Phil.
You hauehave sayd well M. Curtop, and after the meaning of S. Austen, and to confirme that which I hauehave said for the signification of Catholicke.
Couen.
Let the booke be sene my Lord.
Bon.
I pray you my Lord be cōtēt, or in good fayth I will breake euen of & let al alone. Do you thinke the Catholicke Church (vntill it was within these few yeres in ye which a few vpō singularity hauehave swerued frō ye same) hauehave erred?
Phil.
I do not thinke that the Catholicke Church can erre in doctrine: but I require you to prooue this Churche of Rome to be the Catholicke Church.
Curtop.
I can proue that Ireneus (which was within an hundred yeares after Christ) came to victor then bishop of Rome,Where M. Curtop … deth this, I cannot sayes but this I finde that Eusebius doth report that Irenaeus did reproue Victor Byshop of Rome for his rash Sentence in excommunicating the Churches of Greece concerning the ob…eruation of the feast of Easter. Euseb. lib. … cap. …. to aske his aduise about the excōmunication of certayne heretickes, the which he would not hauehave done (by al likelihood) if he had not taken him to be supreame head.
Couent.
Marke well this argument. How are you able to aunswere to the same (Aunswere if you can.
Phil.
It is soone aunswered my Lorde, for that it is of no force, neither this fact of Ireneus maketh no more for the supremacy of the Bishoppe of Rome, then mine hath done which hauehave bene at Rome as well as he, and mighte hauehave spoken with the Pope if I had list: and yet I would none in England did fauor his supremacy more then I.
S. Asse.
You are the more to blame (by the fayth of my body) for yt you fauor the same no better, since all the Catholicke Church (vntill this fewe yeares) hauehave taken him to be supreame head of the Church, besides this good man Ireneus.
Phil.
That is not likely, that Ireneus so tooke him, or the primatiue Church: for I am able to shewe seauen generall Councels after Ireneus time wherin he was neuer so taken, which may be a sufficient proofe that the catholick primitiue church neuer tooke him for supreme head.
The other Bish.
This man will neuer be satisfied, say what we can. It is but folly to reason any more with him.
Phil.
O my Lordes, would you hauehave me satisfied with nothing? Iudge (I pray you) who of vsus hath better authority, he whiche bringeth the example of one manne going to Rome, or I that by these many generall councels am able to proue, that he was neuer so takē in many hūdred yeares after Christ, as by Nicene, Ephesine the first and the seconde,Socr. lib. 5. cap. 22.7. Generall Counsells in which the Bishop of Rome was neuer taken for supreame head. The church of Rome discenteth from the primatiue Church. Calcedone, Constantinopolitane, Carthaginens. Aquiliense.
Couen.
Why will ye not admit the Churche of Rome to be the Catholicke Church?
Phil.
Because it followeth not the primitiue Catholicke church, neither agreeth with the same, no more then an apple is like a nut.
Couent.
Wherin doth it dissent?
Phil.
It were to long to recite all, but two thinges I will name: the supremacy and transubstantiation.
Curtop.
As for transubstantiation, albeit it was set forth & decreed for an article of fayth not much aboue 300. yeares, yet it was alwayes beleued in the church.
Bon.
Yea that it was. Uery well sayd of you M. Curtop.
Phil.
Ye hauehave sayde right, that Transubstantiation is but a late plantation of the byshop of Rome,Transubstantiation is but a late plantation. & you are not able to shew any auncient writer, that the primitiue church did beleue any such thing: and with this Curtop shrank away. And immediately after, the Ambassadour of Spayne came in, to whom my Lord of London went, leauing the other with me. To whome I sayde: my Lordes, if you can shew me that this church of Rome (wherof you are members) is the true Catholicke Church,Iohn Philpot returneth againe to his issue. I shall be content to be one thereof, and as conformable to the same as you can require me in all things: for I know there is no saluation but within the Church.
Couen.
Can you disproue that the Church of Rome is not the Catholicke Church.
Phil.
Yea that I am able: but I desire rather to heare of you for the proofe thereof.Rome … not the Catholick… Church … why? And seing I cannot hauehave my request at your hāds, neither be satisfied with any probable authority, I will shewe you good proofe why it is not. For if the primatiue Church were Catholicke, as it was in deed, and ought to be the form and scholemaysters of the Church to the worldes end: then is not the church of Rome now the Catholicke church which dissenteth so farre from the same duplicate page both in doctrine and vse of the sacramentes.
Couent.
How proue you that the Church of Rome nowe dissenteth in doctrine and vse of the sacramentes from the primitiue Church?Comparisō betweene the prima… Church and the Popes Catholicke Church. The fayth … the popes Catholicke … now ….
Phil.
Compare the one with the other, and it will soone appeare: as ye may see both in Eusebius and other Ecclesiasticall and auncient writers.
Couent.
What hauehave you to say more, why it is not the catholicke Church?
Phil.
Because it is not (by youre interpretation of Catholicke) vniuersall neyther neuer was, albeit you falsely perswade the people that it is so. For the world being deuided in three partes, Asia, Africa, and Europa, ii. partes therof, Asia, and Africa professing Christ as wel as we, did neuer consent to the Church of Rome, which is of Europa: whiche is a sufficient testimony that your faith was neuer vniuersall.
Couent.
How proue you that?
Phil.
At the Historiographers whiche write of the proceedinges of the Church, doe testifie the same. Besides that, this present time doth declare that to be true which I say. For at this present the Church of Asia and Africa doe not consent to the churche of Rome. Yea and besides all thys, most parte of Europa doth not agree neither allowe the Churche of Rome: as Germanye the kingdome of Denmarke, the kingdome of Poole, a great part of Fraunce, England, and Zeland, which is a manifest probation that your Church is not vniuersall. And after this, the Bishop of London called away the other Bishops, and lefte with me diuers Gentlemen, with certayne of his Chaplaynes, as Doctor Sauerson an Englishman, which had proceeded Doctor in Bonony, who after began with me in this maner.
Doctour Sauer.
Mayster Philpot, I remember you beyond sea since the time you reasoned with a Fryer (a notable learned man) commyng from Uenice to Padua in a barge.
Phil.
I cannot forget that, for the Fryer threatned me to accuse me of heresie as soone as he came to Padua, for that I talked with him so boldly of the truth. He was no suche learned manne as you name hym to be, but onelyonly in hys schole poyntes a good Purgatory Fryer.
Doct. Sauer.
Well, he was a learned man for al that. And I am sory to heare yt you this day hauing cōmoned wyth so many notable learned men, are no more conformable to them then you be.
Phil.
I will be conformable to all them that be conformable to Christ in his word. And I praye you good mayster Doctour, be not so conformable to please men more then GOD, contrary to your learning for worldly estimations sake.
Doct. Sauer.
No that I am not. Upon what occasion shuld you thinke thus of me?
Phil.
Upon no euill that I doe knowe of you, Mayster Doctour: but I speake as one wishing that you shoulde not be led away from the truth for promotions sake, as many Doctours be now a dayes.
Doct. Sauer.
For the further deba…g of this matter, that Ciprian doth alow … such …, reade the answere of M. Nowell to M. Dorman.I hauehave heard your argumentes hetherto, and me thinketh that a great many of the olde ancient writers be agaynst you in that you doe not allowe the churche of Rome neyther the supremacie: for sainct Cyprian (whiche is an old ancient writer) doth allowe the byshop of Rome to be the supreme head of the Church.
Phil.
That I am sure of he doth not. For he writing vntounto Cornelius then Byshoppe of Rome, calleth hym but his companion and fellow Byshop, neither attributed to hym the name either of Pope, or els of any vsurped terms which now be ascribed to the Bishop of Rome to the setting forth of his dignitie.
Doct. Sauer.
You cannot be able to shewe that S. Cyprian calleth Cornelius his fellow Byshop.
Phil.
I will wager with you that I amble to make, that I can shew it you in Cyprian, as I hauehave sayd.
Doctor Sauer.
I will lay none other wager with you, but booke for booke,… lib. 1. …. 3. that it is not so.
Phil.
I agree thereto, and I praye you one of my Lordes Chaplaynes to fet vsus Cyprian hether for the tryal hereof. And with that one of them went to my Lordes study and brought forth Cyprian, & by and by he turned to the fyrst booke of his Epistles,D. Sauersō … M. Philpot. …. lib. 4. Epist. 2. Cap. 1…. …. the 3. Epistle, and there would hauehave seemed to hauehave gathered a strong Argument for the supremacie of the Byshop of Rome, because he sayth: It goeth not well with the Churche when the hygh Prieste is not obeyed, which supplyeth the stead of Christ after Gods word, and the cō sent of hys fellow Byshops. and the agreement of the people.
Doct. Sauer.
How can you auoyd this place which maketh so playnely for the Bishop of Romes supremacy?
Phil.
It maketh not so playne, mayster Doctour, on your side, as you gather, as by and by I wil geue you to vnderstand. But first I challenge the wager which wee made yt your booke is mine.Patriarches only be named, to whom afterward the Patriarke of Constantinople was also ioyned. Cyprian hath also these words following in the same epistle: It was declared amongest vsus and it is according to iustice and equity that eueryevery mans cause should be heard where the fault was committed and to eueryevery seuerall Pastor there is a portiō of the flocke appoynted to rule and gouerne, for the which he must make an accopmt before God. Cipri. lib. 4. Epist. 2. For here you may see that hee calleth Cornelius his fellow byshop, as he doth also in other places. And now for the vnderstanding of that place, you do misconstrue it, to make the high Priest onelyonly for the Bish. of Rome and otherwise then it was in hys tyme. For there were by Nicene Councell iiii. Patriarckes appoynted, the Patriarcke of Hierusalem, the Patriarcke of Constantinople, the Patriarcke of Alexandria, and the Patryarcke of Rome, of whiche foure the Patriarcke of Rome was placed lowest in the Councell, and so continued many yeares, for the tyme o… vii. or viii. generall Councelles, as I am able to shew.
Therefore S. Cyprian writing to Cornelius Patriarcke of Rome? whome he calleth hys fellowe Byshoppe) findeth himselfe offended, that certayne heretickes beyng iustly excommunicated by him (as the Nouatians were) did flye from the Dyoces, whiche was their chiefe bishop refusing to be obedient to him and to bee reformed, to the Bishop of Rome and to the Patriarcke of Constantinople, and there were receaued in communion of congregation, in derogation of good order and discipline in ye church and to the mayntayning of heresies and schismes: and that heresies did spring vp and schismes dayly rise hereof, that obedience was not geuen to the Prieste of God, nor once considered him to be in the Churche, for the time, the priest and for the time the Iudge in Christes steade (as in the decree of Nicene Councell was appoynted) not the Byshop of Rome onelyonly, but eueryevery Patriarcke in his precinct: who had eueryevery one of them a Colledge or Cathedrall churche of learned Priestes, in hearyng of whome by a conuocation of his fellow Byshops, with the consent of the people, all heresies were determined by the word of God: and this is the meanyng of S. Cypryan.
D. Sauer.
You take it so, but it seemeth to me otherwise.
Phil.
Upō what groūd it shuld seeme otherwise vntounto you, I know not but this meaning whiche I hauehave declared ye general Councels. 7. or 8. one after an other, confirmed it so to be, whiche did not allowe one supreme head onelyonly.
Pend.
There were not so many generall Councels, but 4. onelyonly allowed.
Phil.
That is not so M. Pendleton, although there be 4. specially allowed for the confirmation of the Trinitie: but beside these foure there were many other generall Councels, as you may learne by many writers.How S. Cyyriā meaneth, Christ to build his Church vponupon Peter. Cypria. De simplicitate▪ Praelatorum. tract. 10. in Ioā.
A Chaplayne.
Did not Christ builde his Church vponupon Peter S. Cyprian sayth so.
Phil.
S. Syprian De simplicitate praelatorum declareth in what respect he so sayd. In persona vnius dedit Dominus omnibus claues, vt omnium vnitatem denunciaret. i. God gaue in person of one man the keyes to all, that he might signifie the vnitie of all men. And also saynt Austen sayth in the x. treatise of S. Iohn: Si in Petro non esset Ecclesiae mysterium, non ei diceret Dominus tibi dabo claues. Si autem hoc Petro dictum est non habet Ecclesia: si autem Ecclesia habet, quando claues accepit, Ecclesiam totam designauit. i. If in Peter hadde not bene the misterie of the Churche, the Lord had not sayde vntounto him (I will geue vntounto thee the keyes. For if that were sayd vntounto Peter, the Churche hath them not: if the Church hauehave them, Hieronym. ad Nepotianum.when Peter receiued them he signified the whole Church. And also S. Hierome a Priest of Rome writing to Nepotian, sayth: that al Churches do leane to their owne Pastours, Hieronim ad Euagium.where he speaketh of the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchie or regiment, where hee maketh no mention of the Bishop of Rome. And Ad Euagium hee sayth, that wheresoeuer a Byshop be, whether it be at Rome, or at Euagie, or at Regium, he is of one power and of one Iurisdiction.
D. Sauer.
S. Hierome De coelesti hierarchia? It was Dyonisius you meane.
Phil.
I say not that Hierome wrote anye booke so intituled. But I say, that in the Epistle by me alledged, hee maketh mention of the Ecclesiasticall regiment.
D. Sauer.
I wonder you will stand so steadfast in your errour, to your owne destruction.
Philpot.
I am sure we are in no errour, by thy promise of Christe made to the faythfull once, whiche is, that he will geue to hys true Churche suche a spirite of wisedome, that the aduersaries therof should neuer be able to resist. And by this I knowe we are of the trueth, for that neyther by reasoning neyther by writing, your Sinagogue of Rome is able to aunswere. Where is there one of you all that euer hath bene able to answere any of the godly learned ministers of Germany, who hauehave disclosed your counterfayt Religion? Which of you all (at this day) is able to answere Caluins institutions, which is minister of Geneua?
D. Sauer.
A godly minister in deede of receite of …urpurses,False sc…aūders. and runnagate traytours. And of late I can tell you, there is such contention fallen betweene hym and his own sects that he was fayne to flye the towne, about predestination. I tell you truth, for I came by Ieneua hether.
Phil.
I am sure you blaspheme that godly man, and that Godly church where he is minister, as it is your churches condition when you cannot answere men by learnyng, to oppresse them with blasphemies and false reportes. For in the matter of predestination hee is in none other opinion then al the Doctors of the church be, agreeing to the scriptures.
Sauer.
Men be able to answere hym if they list. And I pray you which of you hauehave answered Byshop Fishers booke.
Phil.
Yes (mayster Doctor) that booke is answered and aunswered agayn, if you list to seek what hath bene written agaynst hym.
And after this Doct. Story came in. To whom I said mayster Doctor,D. Story commeth in. you hauehave done me great iniury, and with out law hauehave straightly imprisoned me, more like a Dogg thē a man. And besides this, you hauehave not kept promise wt me, for you promised that I should be iudged the next day after.
Story.
Happy are you when they reuile you, and say all euill agaynst you for my names sake. Math. 5.I am come now to keepe promise with thee. Was there euer such a fantasticall man as this is? Nay, he is no man, he is a beast. Yea these heretickes be worse then brute beastes: for they will vponupon a vayne singularitie take vponupon them to be wiser then all men, being in deede very fooles and Asseheades, not able to mayntayne that whiche of an arrogant obstinacie they do stand in.
Phil.
M. Doct. I am content to abide your rayling iudgement of me now. Say what you will I am content, for I am vnderunder your feete to be troden on as you list. God forgeue it you: yet I am no hereticke. Neither you nor anye other shall be able to proue that I hold any iote agaynst ye word of God, otherwise then a Christian man ought.
Story.
The word of God? forsooth the word of God. It is but a folly to reason wyth these heretickes, for they are incurable and desperate.The Papistes will not be ruled by the scriptures without their own iudge. But as I may reasō with thee, not that I hauehave any hope to winne thee, whom wilt thou appoynt to be iudge of the word wherto thou standest?
Phil.
Uerely the word it selfe.
Story.
Doe you not see the ignoraunce of this beastly hereticke? He willeth the word to be iudged of the word. Can the word speake?
Phil.
If I cannot proue yt which I hauehave sayd by good authoritie, I will be content to be counted an hereticke and an ignoraunt person, and further what you please.
Story.
Let vsus heare what wise authoritie yu canst bring in.
Phil.
It is the saying of Christe in S. Iohn: Verbum quod locutus sum, Iohn. 12.iudicabit in nouissimo die The word which I hauehave spoken (sayth Christ) shall iudge in the last day. If the worde shal iudge in the last day,What say you now M. Doctor. much more it ought to iudge our doings now: And I am sure I hauehave my iudge on my side, who shall absolue and iustifie me in an other world. How soeuer now it shall please you by authoritie vnrighteously to iudge of me and others, sure I am in an other world to iudge you.
Story.
What? you purpose to be a stincking Martyr, & to sit in iudgement with Christ at the last day to iudge the 12. tribes of Israell.M. Doctour hauing not to aunswere, falleth to rayling.
Phil.
Yea sir, I doubte not thereof, hauing the promise of Christ, If I dye for righteousnes sake, which you hauehave begon to persecute in me.
Story.
I told you it is but vayne to argue with this hereticke: he is drowned in his heresies without all learning.
Phil.
Syr, I hauehave brought you for that I hauehave sayd, good authoritie out of Gods booke, to the whiche you answere nothing, but go about still to geue rayling iudgement aagaynst me without any cause.
Story.
I will come to you by and by. When as the Iudge in Westminster hall geueth sentence, doth the worde geue sentence, or the Iudge? tell me.
Phil.
Ciuill matters be subiect to Ciuell men, & they hauehave authoritie by the worde to bee iudge of them.Gods iudgemēt and ciuill iudgement not lyke. But the word of God is not subiect to mans iudgemēt, but ought to iudge all the wisedome, thoughtes, and doynges of men and therefore your comparison disproueth nothing that I hauehave sayd, neither answereth any whit therto.
Story.
Wilt thou not allow the interpretation of the church vponupon the scriptures?
Phil.
Yes, if it be according to the word of the true church: and this I say to you,The iudgement of the Church, how farre it serueth. as I hauehave sayd heretofore, that if yee can proue the church of Rome (wherof ye are) to be ye true Catholicke Church which I ought to follow, I wil be as ready to yeld therto (as long as it can be so proued) as you may desire me.
Story.
What a fellow is this? He will beleeue nothing but what he list himselfe.Prescription of …yme. Are we not in possessiō of the church? HaueHave not our forefathers these many hundred yeares takē this church for the catholicke church wherof we are now? And if we had none other proofe but this it were sufficiēt: for prescription of time maketh a good title in the law.
Philpot.
You doe well (mayster Doctour) to alledge prescription of many yeares,Prescrip… of time …keth no … in … matters. for it is all that you hauehave to shew for your selues. But you must vnderstand, Ex diuinis nulla occurrit praescriptio, yt prescription hath no place in matters belonging to God, as I am ab…e to shewe by the testimony of many Doctours.
Story.
Well sir, you are like to go after your fathers Latimer the Sophister, and Ridley, who had nothing to alledge for hymselfe but that hee had learned his heresie of Cranmer. Where I came to him with a poore Bacheler of Arte, he tremblēd as though hee had had the palsey, as these heretickes hauehave alwayes some token of feare whereby a man may know them,D. Story confesseth himselfe to be the chiefe di… patcher of all Gods Saintes that suffered in Q. Maryes tyme. as you may see this mans eies do tremble in his head. But I dispatched them: and I tell thee that there hath bene yet neuer a one burnte, but I hauehave spoken with him, & hauehave bene a cause of his dispatch.
Phil.
You hauehave the more to aunswere for, Mayster Doctor as you shall feele in an other world, how much soeuer you do now triumph of your proceedinges.
Story.
I tell thee I will neuer be confessed therof. And because I cannot now tary to speake with my Lord, I pray one of you tell my Lord, that my comming was to signifie to his Lordship, that he must out of hand rid this hereticke away. And going away he sayd vntounto me, I certifie thee that thou mayst thanke none other man but me.
Phil.
I thanke you therfore with all mine hart: and God forgeue it you.
Story.
What? doest thou thanke me? if I had thee in my study halfe an houre, I thinke I should make you sing an other song.
Phil.
No maister Doctour, I stand vponupon to sure a ground to be ouerthrowne by you now.Storyes cruelty. Iohn Philpot left post alone. And thus they departed al away from me one after an other, vntil I was left al alone. And afterwards with my keeper going to my Colehouse (as I went) I met with my Lord of London, who spake vntounto me gētly, as he hath hetherto in words saying:
London.
Philpot, if there be any pleasure I may shewe you in my house, I pray you require it and you shall hauehave it.
Philpot.
My Lord the pleasure that I will require of your Lordship is to hasten my iudgement which is committed vntounto you, & so dispatche me forth of this miserable world,The straight handling of Iohn Philpot in prison, for all the Bishops faire words. vntounto my eternall rest. And for all this fayre speache I can not attain hetherto this fortnight space, neither fire nor cā dle, neither yet good lodging. But it is good for a man to be brought low in this world, & to be counted amongst ye vilest, that hee may in time of rewarde receiue exaltation & glory. Therfore praised be God yt hath humbled me, & geuen me grace with gladnes to be content there withall.
Let all that louelove the truth say. Amen.
Thus endeth the fift Tragedy.