Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 2 · Chapter 2
CHAP. II.
Of the Nature and Being of a Presbyterial Church.
Mr. H. The qualification of the Church as totum essentiale, Survey par. 1. c. 9. p. 94.in the order and pr…cedency of it, in regard of her true Officers we have dispatched. Now we speak of it in comparison with a Presbyterian Church.
Ans. Let not then the Reader exprest any visible Church organical to be spoken of; Organs are but separable adjuncts, the only Church spoken of, and acknowledged by Mr. H. and our brethren, is an homogeneal Church of onelyonly believers, which Mr. H. now calls the Church, before he called it a Church, and this Church, page 94. but we ask the question whether the word Church, Mat. 18. 17. Tell the Church, 1 Cor. 1. 2. Unto the Church of God which is at Corinth. And 2 Cor. 1. 1. 1 Thes. 1. 1. 2 Tim. 2. 15. be this congregational Church without the separable adjuncts of officers: and the truth is, the place Matth. 18. The principal copy of the Independent Church, can mean no Church according to our brethrens way: for no reason can say Officers can be no essential parts of the visible Church by Mr. H. his way.that the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, Matth. 16 19. and the power of binding and loosing. Matth. 18. 17, 18. are given to the separable adjuncts of the Church: but such are the officers, saith Mr. H. page 92. and to such as are no essential parts of the instituted Church, and of the only visible Church of the New Testament. But M. H. makes it clear, as he sayes, that the Congregational Church is before the Officers, and may be, and is without them, therefore officers can be no essential parts of the Church of the New Testament. And so this Church void of Officers, must be to our brethren, the first and principal subject of all Government, Rule, Keyes, Officers, and what not?
Mr. H. being to evert Presbyterial Government, he begins Pag. 94, 95.at the Pillars.
The Presbyterian Church consists of three Pillars.
1. There must be several congregations, made entire of such members to make up an integral body of Rulers and Ruled.
Ans. There is a crack in this Pillar, it is not essential to a Presbyterian Church that all the congregation be entire, and formed The two first Pillars of a Presbyterial Church, to wit, 1. framed Churches. 2. Formal commissioners sent to Presbyteries, are to us no pillars, to Mr. H. they are.Churches, having their own Officers distinct from the offices of others, we cannot determine that Matthias had a determinate flock, to which onelyonly he was a fixed Pastor, and Peter another, and Iohn a third; we rather judge the whole twelve fed in common, sometimes in one congregation, in this house, dayly, and sometimes in another; but all the huge thousands could not feed in one house, otherwise many congregations framed and fixed, or not framed and fixed, are all under one Presbytery, as the Learned and Reverend Assembly at Westminster teacheth. If the Pillars be dreams, the house that M. H. storms is also a dream.
To the second Pillar we shall speak hereafter, if the Lord will.
3. These Churches send Rulers, by way of delegation, to whom they submit.
Ans. This also is a faulty Pillar.
1. They so send as they may be present to hear, dispute, dissent, to what is amiss, nor are the Pastors delegates.
2. They submit to them not simply.
But first, reserving judgement of discretion.
Secondly, and with liberty to appeal.
3. The whole Elders of six congregations in a City may all meet in one common Presbytery, without any delegation; and that is a Presbyterial Church, as is the meeting of a Congregational Eldership.
Mr. H. To their power of Iurisdiction the Churches must submit—but it ariseth from a power of order or office to preach.
Ans. Well said, then cannot they exercise the highest acts of jurisdiction, to excommunicate all the Elders, as Mr. H. saith, page 92. they do, for the people hath no power of order or official power to preach the Gospel, and administer the Seals, page 92. and yet Mr. H. saith, they may communicate all their officers.
Mr. H. There is a Iurisdiction official that issues onelyonly from the office, this the officers have.
Answ. This Lenitive is a Corrosive. Here is the matter, the people have jurisdiction, and do excommunicate, but not by an official jurisdiction, but by another power: So a Midwife baptizeth in the Roman Church, but not by a power of Order, as a Priest, but its valid. An Usurper judgeth, but not by a power derived from the Royall Power of the Soveraigne Ruler.
2. By what Scripture can any power of the Keyes given by Christ onelyonly to the Church of believers, be given to separable adjuncts of the Church?
Mr. H. None is a steward, unless appointed over the Family by Christ, 1 Cor. 12. 27, 28. Hence Papists and Prelats erre, officers and offices are coronation-mercies, and proceed from Christs ascension, Eph. 4. 11, 12.
2. They are means of worship instituted by him.
3. He onelyonly can blesse them.
Answ. 1. None are stewards to put in and put out stewards and excommunicate them, but such as are appointed of God: But believers without officers are no stewards at all.
2. Censuring and excommunicating is an authoritative way of edifying, 2 Cor. 10. 8. 1 Cor. 5. 4, 5. 1 Thess. 3. 14. shew in People that are no stewards have no authority to censure, or thereby to edifie.all the Word, where believers and private Christians are to edifie and build up in the faith their Pastors, and that in an authoritative way. The people so must
2. Be coronation-mercies, and gifts given of Christ, ascending to heaven for the perfecting of the Pastors, and the work of the Ministery, to gather in Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors to Christ. Whereas the Text saith the contrary, That Pastors were given to gather in the people, and the people, or unofficed Brethren, were not given to gather in Apostles.
3. If Excommunication be a Worship administred by the Brethren upon Pastors; then must a promise be made to unofficed Brethren, who excommunicate, Behold, I send you, as Matth. 10. 16. This we reade not.
Mr. H. He that is called and appointed an officer according to God and the Rules of the Gospel, as he needs no other power but that of his office, to authorize him to execute it; So there is no power by rule or right that can hinder him in the due execution thereof.
Ans. This is a ground against both Episcopacy and Presbytery. Presbyters may preach in other congregations than their own, if they be officers over it, as Bishops may in many congregations.How pastors are regulated in the exercise of their calling.
2. The Pastor, if called of God, may do his office, without horrowing a power from the Pastor of pastors to do it; but he must preach hic & nunc in an orderly way, upon a day, and time of the day appointed by the Church.
3. He hath an office to preach and administer the seales any where, yet must he have the call by desire, consent, or some other way, before he can do it in another congregation.
4. Nor can he rule or administer censures as his alone, extra collegium, without the authoritative concurrence of the Elders, and tacit consent of the people, though he be an appointed officer of Christ. So this ground is weak. Other weak grounds we shall consider after.