Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 4 · Chapter 6

Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker · Book 4 · Chapter 6

p. 396CHAP. VI.

Whether there be a whole Catholick integral visible Church?

MR. H. The Catholick Church hath sometimes such a respect a…s totum integra…e, an whole integral Catholick Church. So A…es.

Ans. D. Ames maintains that there is not only such a respect, but that there is a Catholick integral Church; and he Survey par. 1. c. 14. p. 243. Ames Medul. l. 1. c. 32. Thes. 5. Ecclesia igitur particularis respectu commanis illius naturae quae in omnibus particularibus Ecclesiis reperitu, est species Ecclesiae in genere, sed respectu Ecclesiae Catholicae, quae habet rationem integri, est totum ex aggregatione variorum membroru… …ingularium compositum, at que adeo respectu ipsorum est integrum.never dreamed, nor any learned man of Mr. H. his Catholick Church affirmed of this or that congregation, and is as much as to say, Norwich is Catholick England. The Catholick Church of Angels and men in all ages, all times, all places, is not that integral Catholick visible Church which we make the subject of the Keyes.

But this integral Church militant, as existing in divers ages, is That there is a Catholick integral militant Church.before the congregation in the Lords intention, as the Lord intends the organick body of man, and not a hand only; and a complete world, not a nation, not a City only; so his design is not for this or that congregation, but for a world of visible Churches, a whole seed, a willing people, Psal. 110. who is flowing to the mountain of the Lords house, Isa. 1. 1, 2. his flock and scattered sons, Isa. 9. 7. under the government of Christ by the Word, Seals, Censures, Luk. 1. 32, 33. make them in their p. 397times, and places, all the world over, visible by profession, calling, gathering, feeding, Ier. 33. 31, 32. Zech. 8. 6, 7, 8. Psal. 2. 8, 9. Psal 72. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, &c. Rev. 11. 15. Psal 22. 27, 28. Iohn 15. 52. And the congregations come in here as secondary parts and parcels of Christs great visible flock. Mr. H. denies this, and it is, as if a man would say there be two hands, ten fingers, two feet, head, eyes, ears, &c. but should deny there is an whole organick body; or as one should yeeld there are rivers, floods, fountains, seas, but deny there is such a thing as the integral element of water.

2. This integral militant body is before the congregation, in Arg. 2.the relation of a Spouse that hath breasts, and brings …orth children, Isa. 54 1, 2. Cant. 3. 4. Cant. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4 Cant. 6. 4, 5, 6, 7 &c. in the relation of a body wrought upon by a Ministry, Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13, 14, 15. the congregation is but his Spouse and body secondarily, foreign. Some congregation of seven or ten, where all may be of the stamp of Iudas and Magus, is abusively called the Spouse.

3. In duration and stability, there is a Church gifted with a Arg. 3.Ministry, having the Keys of the Kingdom built upon the rock, against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail, Mat. 16. 17, 18, 19. induring as the dayes of Heaven, which is so as the object of our faith, Isa. 59. 21. Psal. 89. 28, 29 &c. Ier. 31, 32, 33, &c. they are also a visible sheepfold of Jews and Gentiles, Iohn 10. 16. the building of God, the planting of the Lord, Isa. 61. 3, 4, 5, 6. Mich 7. 14, 15. & 5. 4, 7, 8. and the congregations little companies in mount Zion.

4. There is a Church integral militant, visible, and in its Arg. 4.choisest part invisible, to whom as the subject, and for whom, as the end and object, are given the covenant, word, promises of life, ministry, seals, censures, in their saving fruits, as before is said, Ier. 31. 31, 32, &c. Ier. 32. 38, 39, 40. Psal. 132. 11, &c. these in an inferiour way the congregations have and enjoy.

5. The whole and complete work of the spirit in the Ministry Arg. 5.and Word, is terminated upon the Catholick integral militant body. Isa. 5. 20, 21. Eph. 5. 25, 26, 27, &c. and the congregation hath the waterings thereof in a lower way.

Mr. H. You cannot demonstrate out of Scripture, that there is p. 398Pag. 244, 245.such a thing in the New Testament as a Catholick visible Church. Mr. R. saith the subject, 1 Cor. 12. 28. is a Catholick visible Church, not a politick body under one head, the Pope; but the Catholick body of Christ mystical, as visible.

Ans. The Catholick invisible body as visible, I conceive not; to consider a body invisible as visible, is a contradiction, as if a man would say, I consider whiteness as blackness.

Ans. 1 Cor. 12. is neither meant of a politick body, under the Pope.Arg. 6.

2. Nor a General Councel:

3. Nor of a Catholick visible body, that meet in the same place. Such is not found under the new Testament, whence he must mean that under the Old Testament. There was a Catholick Way of the Church of N. …. c: 1. sect. 1. p. 1, 2.visible Church of the Jewes that meets in the same place at one time, as the Brethren take a visible Church, which is unpossible to be demonstrate in either Old or New Testament.

2. Mr. H. hath from me no such expression, as to consider Mr. H. supposeth by no Logick, that the same body of Christ cannot be both invisible, and in another respect visible.an invisible body as visible, though it be no contradiction, as is blackness and whiteness in abstracto. If Mr. R. had said, visibleness may be considered as invisibleness, Mr. H. should have better Logick; why is it a contradiction? The mystical body in common (saith he) is the invisible body. True, and the mystical body is both invisible, being the really chosen of God, and the object of our faith, and the same invisible Church which shall be presented without spot or wrinkle before the Lord, Eph. 5. 27. and the same Church and body is sanctified by the Word, preached and professed, and washed with Water in Baptism, v. 26. and so visible. And Eph. 4. the body which shall come to the unity of faith, and to the perfect man, the Stature of Christ, Eph. 4. 13. is the mystical, and savingly believing body, and so invisible; & also the body of Christ gathered by the ministry visible, and edified by the word preached and professed, is v. 12. the same body, and must be visible, for Apostles & Pastors preach to the visible Church. A child in Logick can conceive, the same politick body savingly believing to be invisible, and also savingly professing what they believe to be visible. So the twelve Apostles, Act. 6. are both real, and so invisible believers, as no p. 399man doubts (Iudas being in his place) and the Scripture in it, Mat. 19. 27, 28, 29. Luke 12. 32. Luke 22. 28, 29, 30. and he is not worthy to be refuted, who denies the same twelve Apostles in another respect to be visible professors, visible preachers of the Gospel. So Peter, as touching his soul, is invisible and immortal, as touching his body, visible and mortal. I cannot help it, that Mr. H. conceives this to be a contradiction. I observe (saith he) that Mr. R. puts visible in an equal latitude with mystical.

Ans. Adde to the observation, that in this I take not visible What way M. R. puts visible in an equal latitude with mystical, what way not.for Mr. H. his visibility, which agreeth to Magus and Iudas; but that sincere and honest visible profession, that for the most part is in the Catholick integral militant redeemed body, and mystical, well neer of an equal breadth and latitude. Not but that there may be, and are many beleevers members of the mystical body, who have little or no visible profession. But it is enough to assert as truth, that one and the same body is both invisible, mystical, and the saved body, and also visible, and clothed with a real sincere profession; and that both these agree to the Catholick integral militant Church. Though I deny not, but that there be many hypocrites in this great body, whose ministerial acts are valid. But the Catholick visible Church in that latitude is not then both subject, object, and intended end of all Ordinances. And I speak now of it.

Mr. H. I cannot think that Mr. R. takes the Catholick Church for the whole integral body.

Ans. It is mistaking charity of me. Mr. H. that Church is meant 1 Cor. 12. in which God sets teachers, helps, ordinary officers, firstly, v. 28. But God sets not such in the integral body; for they are set by the election of the people in particular congregations, Acts 14. 23. & 6. 5. Tit. 1. 5.

Ans. This is my own argument, but not rightly formed; that Church is here meant, in which the Lord hath respectively placed first Apostles—and Teachers, both Extraordinary and Ordinary Officers. But God hath not set Apostles fixedly and firstly over congregations, they being organs of the Catholick integral body, and are sent to preach to Heathen (who after were Churches. As it is said, Iacob served for a Wife, to be p. 400married, not married as yet) who could not choose the Apostles as their pastors.

2. Workers of miracles were not chosen by a single congregation, no… such as had the gift of Tongues, 1 Cor. 14. 22. Tongues are for a sign to them that believe, not to them that believe Calvin. B…za in loc. Pareus. Pet. Martyr. Nec Corinthii cum …ideles (professione, non Ethnici) essent, dono linguarum indigebant. Piscator. English Divines. Diodati in loc. Estius in loc. Cajetan. Page 186. A congregation onelyonly cannot be meant 1 Cor. 12. 28. but also the Catholick integral militant Church.1 Cor 12:28not. See the Divines on the place. Miracles and Tongues were to perswade unbelievers, and were not firstly set to congregations, nor could have any imaginable election and call from them.

3. The places, as elsewhere is said, prove not any thing to the point.

Mr. H. Arg. 2. In what Church Pastors are firstly set over them, they have firstly and primarily pastoral power in dispencing acts of ruling and preaching: But ordinary Teachers have not this over the Catholick visible Church. Congregations may justly refuse to hear other Teachers then their own; but their own may preach to them, though they refuse to hear.

Ans. Every word is censurable. 1. Apostles were foreign, firstly both in regard of dignity of Office, and of Apostolick Universality, sent to all Nations to preach, not to a single congregation to exercise pastoral acts firstly over it, as fixed Pastors.

2. By a catholick Church Mr: H. means (sed suis musis solus canit) a congregation. Now if the Apostles be firstly set in the congregation in general, they must be secondarily set in this individual congregation; then must the ordinary Teacher be set before the Apostle, who was often his sender, in the individual congregation.

3. The Proposition is false: A pastor may tender the Lords Supper to hundreds of a sister-congregation; but Mr. H. I hope, will not say that a pastor is set over, and firstly over hundreds of another congregation. The Antecedent and consequence are both Mr. Hookers.

4. Its false that ordinary Teachers have not power to exercise pastoral acts to those of other congregations. Nor is it proved, they cannot exercise pastoral acts over them, because they cannot censure them. Its an illogical consequence, ordinary to Mr. H. The Apostles, both as Apostles, by miracles and the p. 401gift of Tongues, plant Churches among the Heathen, and as pastors they exercise ordinary pastoral acts to the Heathen, in Pastors may exercise pastoral acts toward many whom they cannot censure or excommunicate.planting and preaching the Gospel to them, but they could not draw out Church-censures against the Heathen, yet remaining Heathen, because of the incapacity of the object, they could not cast them out who were not yet within: 1 Cor. 5. 12, 13. but this they could not do not through want of pastoral power over them.

5. Its false, that other Churches may justly refuse to hear other Teachers than their own: For if their own be sick and dead, or if other Teachers have an earnest suit and desire from their own officers and some one of the congregation, they most unjustly refuse to hear, and come under the guilt of despising Christ in despising his Messengers, as Mat. 10. 40. Luke 10. 16. Ioh. 13 20. except the sense be, He that receiveth not his own congregational pastor, receiveth not me, otherwise not. A strange and new sense!

6. If the flock refuse all their own pastors to hear them, as being ravening Wolves, they unpastor them, and recall the official being, which our Brethren say they gave them in election, and so unjustly refuse to hear them; and they cannot justly preach to them, who so refuse to hear, for they justly refuse, a… Mr. H. teacheth.

Mr. H. God must either (saith Mr. H) have pl…ed in all the Par. 1. p. 247, 248.Church Catholick, Apostles, Teachers, which we say, or then in some part of it onelyonly. And what is that part which is excepted? Surely he intends not salvation to that part of the Church in the which he sets no Teachers.

Ans. At the common nature of a Corporation exists in all corporations; so the congregation-nature exists in this or this congregation—So if the nature of a Corporation be common to all, and the King hath set Major and Common-councel in all and every Town: Therefore the Major of one Town may rule in another. So all States set Generals, Colonels, Captains in the Army. The King sets Constables in all towns, Sheriffs in all counties: Because Constables are common to all towns, therefore a Constable may exercise his office in another town.

Ans. 1. The Argument must run thus: As the King hath p. 402set in England the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, the Lord Chief Justice, the Sheriff, the Constable in every County and Though the rulers of one City cannot fixedly govern in another, yet its not consequent, therefore a Pastor cannot act as a Pastor in divers Churches.Town; so hath God set in his Church, that is, in the congregation, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, &c. But the King hath set in England the Lord Keeper, the Lord Chief Justice, the Constable in every County, in every Town, how many Great Seals, how many Lords of Chief Justice should then be in England? And do not our …ound Divines condemn in Papists the Argument from civil Government, and honour due to persons in the point of the government of Gods House, and of adoring of God in Images? He is a stranger to Bellarmine, Valentia, Suarez, Vasquez, Tanerus, &c. and to our Divines, Reynold, Chamier, Calvin, Bucanus, Tilenus, Daneus, Chemnitius, Luther, &c. who knows not this.

2. Neither major Proposition nor Assumption have any truth: for hath God set the Apostles, the planters and framers of Churches out of heathen societies, in no Chair, but fixed them to a congregational Pulpit onelyonly? The Apostles have care of all things, 2 Cor. 11. 28. command Schismatick Churches, 2 Cor. 10. 8. plant and lay the foundation of Churches, as wise Master-builders, Acts 16. 12. 13, 14, 15, 16. & 18. 7, 8, 9, 10, 1 Cor. 3. 6. 11. appoint new offices in the Church, Acts 6. 6. God hath not every way se… ted officers in his Church, as the King hath placed Underjudges in the State.Now if God have seated the Apostles in such a way in every congregation, as ordinary Teachers are, then the Apostles proper place must be onelyonly to water and confirm visible converts, and members of a fixed and framed congregation; where then are the Apostles Letters Patents to build, to plant, to lay the foundation?

3. When its said, as it must be, or it comes not home, the King hath placed in England the whole integral body of the Kingdom of England, the Lord Keeper, the Lord chief Justice, the Constable, as he hath placed in the Church Apostles and Teachers in the whole integral Church: These extraordinary and ordinary officers it cannot be meant, the King hath placed a Lord Keeper, and a Lord chief Justice in every Town and City of England; so neither hath the Lord placed an Apostle in every congregation upon the same account, and he who is p. 403an Apostle in one congregation, can no more be an Apostle in another, than a Major of one City can be a Major in another: and it must run so; The State hath placed a General, Colonels, Captains in their Armies, i. e. in every particular society of the Armies, and so every company must have a General, therefore hath the State set Generals, Colonels, Captains in their Armies in the plural number. Now the State hath set but one General over all the Army, as the Church is but one.

4. If the Argument run thus: As the Major of Norwich Let M. H. answer whether the Major of Norwich may lawfully do justice upon one of York, who is oppressed by his fellow-citizen of York, as the pastor of Boston may tender the L. Supper to 20 of the congregation of Hartford. Here the parallel is broken, I judge. Way of the Churches of N. E. c 6. sect. 1. p. 103. Mr. Cotton of the keys, c. 5. p 17. M. H. Survey.may not rule as Major of York; so neither may a pastor in one congregation teach & rule as a pastor in another congregation. This is utterly false: and its an Argument like this, As God hath confined Rulers to one society onelyonly in the civil State, so hath he confined the officers of his Sons House: one word of Scripture to prove this should silence Mr. R. Its not lawful to devise parallels between the Civil State and Christs Kingdome. Suppose all the Majors, Rulers, Citizens of all the Cities and Towns in England had the same divine right to command in all the Cities and Towns in England, and that these Majors were Rulers equally and in common to all those Towns, and that it were a matter of providential Order, not of Divine Jurisdiction, that A. B. should be fixed Major of Norwich, and C. D. fixed Major of York, and so forth: then if C. D. by providence should be at Norwich, he might rule as a Major at Norwich, or any Town or City of England, as well as at York: and so is here the matter; a called pastor is a pastor, and may act pastorally, and dispense the Seal of the Lords Supper to those of another congregation, say our Brethren, and so to another whole congregation; for there is the same reason in both.

So all visible professors have the same divine Church-right to the same Christ the Head:

2. To the same Gospel and Covenant of grace: (for d…stinct Church-covenants are mens lawless inventions, as used by our Brethren.)

3. To the same Lords Supper, 1 Cor. 10. 17.

4. To the same eternal life So Mr. H. shall gain nothing by this, but lose: for there is no such right civil, common to p. 404civil Rulers and civil Citizens. One Town hath City priviledges that no other Town in the Kingdom hath.

Mr. H. Right of Iurisdiction flowing from office-call, a Pastor hath not, save in his own congregation.

Ans. There must be one call or other for a Pastor to exercise his office: but a new office, or new right of jurisdiction There is some call required for a Pastor to put forth pastoral acts, but no new office, no new right of jurisdiction.other then pastoral, which he received in ordination, is not requisite for a pastor to act as a pastor. Yea, he sins against his office-charge and talent, if in all congregations he do not preach the word, be instant in season and out of season (not at Ephesus only, for an Evangelist, such as Timothy was, not an ordinary fixed Teacher) if he do not reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all long-suffering, 2 Tim. 4. 1, 2. The danger of perishing of souls, or the absence, or removal of the Pastors by death, is a fit call of God, though the greater part of Sardis love not to be rebuked.

Mr. H. God hath set in his Church, i. e. in the congregation existing in its particulars, Apostles, &c. and therefore all congregations The place 1. Cor. 12. 28. God hath set in the Church, is not meant of only Mr. H. his congregational Church.1 Cor 12:28are here intended.

Ans. 1. By this God hath set Apostles, Miracles, in the single congregation, whether as Apostles, or as Pastors, if the former, speaking with Tongues, working of Miracles, which are for unbeleevers and heathen, 1 Cor. 14. 22. shall be officers or gifts ordained for visible Saints converted. By what Scripture?

2. Though the Church exclude not the congregations, but in some respects include them; yet it is a body called Christ mystical, v. 12. to which Christ is head by influence of his spirit, and brings no small consolation to us, as Beza, Calvin, Pet. Martyr, who make this the Catholick Church.

3. Whereas Mr. H. his single congregation of Magus and Iudas can hardly stand under the weight of that denomination.

Nor 4 can it well be said, that great Apostles, Prophets, workers of Miracles, such as speak with Tongues, are eyes and ears fixed in single congregations; for this is such an organical body, v. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. Never Interpreter, neither Occumenius, p. 405nor Augustine, nor Beza, Calvin, Martyr, Pareus, nor Beza on 1 Cor. 12. 12. Adeo …, Ecclesia tota nihil aliud sit quam unus Christus; quoniam videlicet, totum corpus mysticum à capite denominatur. Calvin. Locus plenus eximiae consolationis—ut Christus nolit tantum in se, sed etiam in membris suis censeri & recognosci—vocat Ecclesiam complementum illius, Eph. 1. 23. Pet. Martyr. Hoc corpus vivit spiritu Christi, & hac de re praeclarum habemus fidei articulum quo Ecclesiam Catholicam confitemur. Occumenius. Ibid. Ita Christus multa quidem habet m…mbra (nempe singulos fideles) unum vero corpus—perfectum ergo Catholicum. Pareus in loc. Minus videtur fieri posse, ut tam diversae sortis, na ionis, conditionis homines in unum corpus coeant, & tamen per unum Spiritum Christo omnes uniuntur: ut sit in tanta diversitate intima societas & Communio Sanctorum, ubi cunque locorum habit…nt. August. De unitat. Eccles. c. 4. Totus Christus caput & corpus est—sponsus & sponsa duo in una carne. English Divines, An. 27. All the faithful wheresoever they are, make but one whole body. You Corinthians are not the whole body, but members only, neither all the members, but a part only.1 Cor 12:12Eph 1:23Eccl 4judicious Papists, Victorinus, Carthusian, Estius, Cajetanus, expound it, as Mr. H. of a single congregation, but of the Catholick Church (saith Martyr) of men of all nations (saith Pareus) though they dwell in divers places of the earth (saith Pareus) this is the mystical body (saith Estius) membra autem omnes fideles, the members are all the faithful. He proves (saith Cajetanus) omnes Christianos esse unum corpus Christi, all Christians (behold the Catholick Church) to be the one body of Christ, because they are all begotten into one Spirit by Baptism.

4. The Church here is the Church all baptized into one body, whether Iews or Gentiles, whether Bond or Free, which all drink the same drink in the Lords Supper. Mr. H. In all these congregations are comprehended both Iewes and Gentiles, for the whole nature of the General is comprehended in the Particulars. Well; and the Spirit that is in all the body must be one Genere, and the drink in the Lords Supper must be one Genere, and so must the Christ of which we partake be one Genere Hence there being many species and kinds of congregations different in nature, there must be many Christs different in nature, many Spirits, many Bodies, many Lords Suppers different in species and nature, of which we partake. Who ever heard in the Church of Christ many Christs, many Baptismes?

Yet Mr. H. makes many congregations so different in nature, as he that hath right to Christ, Seals, especially Baptism, p. 406hath no more right to Christ, Baptism to his seed, censures in another congregation, then a Turk hath.

5. Its absurd that Jewes and Gentiles are all baptized unto one single congregation. We do not think that the Apostles (ad Ioh. Baptist) baptized all the thousands, as tryed converts, into visible framed Congregations, whom they b…ptized, Mat. 3. So the Brethren. We think the contrary. Nor can such dream, as that these thousands so baptized can be warrantably obtruded as a platform of discipline upon the Churches of Christ.

5. This (we are all one) must be in the head Christ, and by faith really apprehending Christ; yea, as the Father and the How absurdly our Brethren say we are one body, 1 Cor. 12. 12.1 Cor 12:12Son are one, Iohn 17. 21, now not only members of an Independent congregation are so one, but also all beleevers of a Province, of a Nation; yea, all that shal beleeve in God, through the word of the Apostles, Iohn 17. 20. and all given of the Father to Christ: who shall behold the glory that the Father hath given to Christ, Iohn 17. 24. and who abide in him as branches in the Vine tree, Iohn 15 4. Except we say no Believers, even dissolved Members, and such as live in the Church of Rome by faith, and yet are afraid to confess, are not one with God, by faith, because they are not members of the single congregation.

6. No more can it be said, we are all one, as touching the nature of Ordinances and Seals, so we beleeve. But so Iudas, Magus, and a congregation of these is the body of Christ their head. Give Scripture for that.

2. Not the single Congregation only, but also all these of divers congregations. who eat one bread, being many, are one body, 1 Cor. 10. 17. by our brethrens grant.

3. This is an union by institution, conditional, and actu primo: but the Text speaks of a real union by faith and the spirit, 2 Cor. 12. 13.

7. By this interpretation, when Paul saith the body is one, he meaneth a generick body; and the particular congregations are subjective parts, suitable to the whole: Now it is unconceivable to know how congregations are eyes, and ears, and organs to congregations, except there be an integral whole body, which they deny: nor do we think that congregations p. 407are organs, in the sense that Apostles or Teachers are organs How many congregations make one organical body, and are organs and members of the same.to watch officially over congregations: but otherwise the Elders of congregations are official organs, and overseers to the associate congregations.

2. It is only an elegant Allegory, and holdeth only in the particulars for which it is brought, especially in organical care and sympathy, to be grieved, and suffer with suffering members, and to rejoice with the honoured members, 1 Cor. 12. 26. Rom. 12. 5, 15.

And 3. Congregations are visible members one of another, in regard of eminency of gifts, holiness and zeal. As Paul, 1 Cor. 19. 9, 10, 11. 2 Cor. 11. 28. Iames beheaded, Acts 12. Iohn was eminent for suffering, Rev. 1. what Eusebius, Ierome, Cent. 1. Euseb. Eccles. Histor. l. 3. c. 32. Hieron. Cato Scrip. Eccles.say of Iames the Son of Alpheus called Iustus, thrown over the Pinacle of the Temple, Simon of Canaan crucified under Trajanus: prove they dying for the truth, not as Apostles, but as eminent witnesies, edified by their gifts a…d zeal the whole Catholick Church. Peter and Paul were martyred at Rome, Andrew crucified in Achaia, Matthew beheaded in Ethiopia, Bartholomew in Armenia, Simon Zelotes in Britain. The eminency and learning of the Martyr Cyprian, Athana…ius his soundness in the faith against Arrians, Epiphanius against the Heresies of Nazia. in laud. Athana. Histor. Magd. Cent. 4. Socrat. l. 5. c. 6. Ru…in. l. 1. c. 9. Theod. l. 5. c. 8. Sozo. l. 6. c. 32. Congregations in their eminent parts are organical parts of the Catholick integral visible Church.his time, Nazianzen against the Heresie of Apollinaris, Basilius against the Heresie of Eunomius: Hilarius, Ambrose instrumental against Arrians, Augustine against Pelagians, Donatists: and huge multitudes of famous instruments through the Catholick Church, prove, that they were not eminent as members only of a single congregation, but that congregations in their eminent members are organs, members and parts of the Catholick integral Church visible. For all these were more visible in their times, for the good of the Catholick body, then of a part or single Independent congregation.

8. Organs as organs are onelyonly and principally for the proper functions and operations and good of that body whereof they are organs onelyonly, the eye to see for that body: and should the eye of Iohn see for Peter, Paul, and thousands of individual men, it should not be the eye of Peter onelyonly: no more can Apostles who see for all the Churches, Mat. 28. 20. Gal. 2. 7 8. p. 4082 Cor. 11. 28. Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. and such as have the gift of Tongues and Miracles to speak to all Nations in their own language, for the planting of the Gospel, be set as eyes and organs, to see and watch for a single congregation where the Gospel is received and believed already, and where ordinarily they speak one language.

9. The absurd inconsistency of Mr. H. is clear in his interpretation; All the members of the body being many, are one body, that is, one genere, for the genus exists and acts in the particular kindes, pag. 247. So Paul must teach us Logick, and oneness Metaphysical here, foreign, which Scripture teacheth us not. Sure, here it is not taught, for the oneness here is in Christ, v. 12. foreign. in one Spirit of Christ, v. 13. in one common office of love, to work every one for another, and the use of another, v. 14, 15, 16. in one sympathy and fellowfeeling of affection, that one member suffer and rejoyce accordingly with another, v. 26.

10. Ver. 21. The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee. By Mr. H. his interpretation, one Church Independent of Boston can say, I have no member… need, no organical-need of Hartford Church, and so the gloss of Mr. H. contradicts the holy Ghost. It will not help what our Brethren say, One congregation One congregation hath member-need of all the congregations; …, they are all one body …ble.hath need of another, for rebuking, teaching, counselling.

1. For a Papist, an heathen Idolater stands in need of a Christian to rebuke and convince him of his Idolatry, but its no member-need such as Paul meaneth; for Papists, heathen Idolaters, and a sound Christian, are not fellow-members of one and the same visible body of Christ baptized by one Spirit, of which Paul speaketh, ver. 12, 13, 14, 15 &c. Iohn blinde hath need of Thomas his eyes to lead him, but that is not memberneed, or vital body-organical-need, for then the eyes of Thomas should be organs and members of Iohn; its onelyonly extrinsecal need. So that yet every congregation must say to another, I the congregation of Boston have no need of thee my sister, or of any congregation on earth, in the sense of the holy Ghost, 1 Cor 12. as one member of the body hath need of another, the head of the feet, for I am a complete Independent body, having no memberneed p. 409of any sister Church on earth.

2. If one congregation stand in member need of all the congregations of Jew and Gentile baptized unto one body, 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 22. to tender the Supper upon occasion to them and their members, as Scripture, 1 Cor. 10. 16, 17. and our Brethren teach; and stand in need of the Church-praying, Church-praising, Church confirmation by pastoral teaching of eminent Teachers, and of Church suffering, &c. by Martyrdome and otherwise; Then must that congregation be a visible member with all visible congrega…ions on earth, and, by good Logick, all the congregations on earth are one integral catholick visible Church.

11. If the Apostle here condemn a Schism and Rent, not from one single congregation onelyonly, but from the body of Jews and Gentiles baptized into one Spirit, ver. 12, 13. & 25. from the Churches of Galatia, Gal. 5 20. from all Churches, Iude v. 19. and commend union with all Churches, because of one Faith, one Lord, one Baptism, Eph. 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. then he supposes they are one Body. Cyprian B. of Carthage, Cornelius B. of Euseb. l. 6. c. 43. Socrat. l. 2. c. 38. Parum abfuit, quin co…dunarentur. Aug. de unit. Eccles. sive cont. Petilianum, t…m. 7. Quaestio inter nos v…rsatur ubi sit Ecclesia, utrum apud nos, an apud illos, quae utique una est, quam Majores nostri Catholicam nominarunt, ut ex ipso nomine ostenderent, quae per totum orbem est. Optat. M…livit. adv. Parmenianum Donatist. l. 2. Ecclesia est una—eam apud vos solos esse dixisti; Ergo ut in particula Africae. Calvin. Instit. l. 4. c. 13. sect. 14. Pet. Mart. Com. in 1 Reg. 12. Disp. de Schismate, pag. 101.1 Kgs 12Rome, justly excommunicated Novatus, denying mercy to them that fell: Ergo, those great Churches made one visible body, and the Novatians were not Schismaticks, because they separated from one single congregation; but, saith Socrates, they hindred the Churches from union. Augustine and Optatus Melivit. and the Fathers make the Donatists Schismaticks in separating from the catholick Church, and denying there was any Church but their own in one part of Africa. See Pet. Martyr learnedly disputing about Schism; and Calvin. See Aug. and Opt. Melivitan.

12. Its true (saith Mr. H.) of all congregations, that the members do and should care one for another.

Ans. And this (12) I bring for one Argument, if this gloss p. 410of Mr. H. remove all member-care and all organical-care of suffering and joy, such as is betwixt the members of the same body, from congregations toward all other congregations, as toward their fellow-members, and limit member care, and member fellow-feeling, to only members of the same congregation: then this gloss must contradict the holy Ghost, 1 Cor. 12. 26. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it, or one member be honoured, all the members rejoyce with it: for this gloss saith, I the Church of Boston, complete and independent within my self, care not with member care for all the congregations on earth, though they utterly perish; nor do I rejoyce with the fellow-feeling joy of fellow-members, at the honour and spiritual good of all the congregations on earth. Sure this doctrine cannot One congregation is to suffer & rejoice with a fellowfeeling of membership at the weal and wee of all congregations on earth; Ergo, all the congregations on earth make one Catholick integral visible body.be of God, which is so contrary to Scripture; for that was not typical in the Old Testament, that the members of the Jewish Church should sorrow and rejoyce with members of that covenanted Nation, as with those m…mbers of the same body; as David, Psal. 19. 2. & 122. 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 & 119. 63. Moses, Exod. 2. 11. Heb. 11. 24, 25. Mordecai and Esther, Esth. 2. 1, 2. ver. 15, 16, 17. cap. 21, 22. and the captive people, Psal. 137. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. and Ieremiah, cap. 9. 1, 2, 3. Ezekiel, cap. 9. 8. & 11. 13. Daniel, cap. 9 16, 17, 18, &c. but we are not to mourn with those that mourn, nor to rejoyce with those that rejoyce, as Rom. 12. 15, with a fellow-feeling affection, as with members of the same visible body, though their weal and woe be most visible to us, as their Church and Saintship is, except with those onelyonly who are members of the same Independent congregation, for they are not of the body of which we are members: as the body of Socrates feels no member pain when the finger of Iohn is cut off.

7. There is a body to be gathered into the unity of faith, Arg. 7.and of the knowledge of the Son of God, a body to be glorified, Eph. 4. 13. Now this is the Catholick Body of Christ, Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. proves an integral Catholick Church visible.Eph 4:11Eph 4:12Eph 4:13and the Lords end why he gave Apostles, Prophets and Doctors, till we be all glorified; and this Church is visible, because gathered and edified by a Ministry, they are the visible Church which is fed by Ministers.

The Church built upon the Rock, against which the gates of p. 411Arg. 8.hell cannot prevail, can be no single congregation, for the gates of hell prevail against the single congregation; therefore it must be the Catholick Church which only continues to the Matth. 16, 17, 18, 19. proves a Catholick integral Church.Matt 16:17Matt 16:18Matt 16:19end. And this Church is visible, for to the Ministers thereof are the Keyes given to open and shut the Kingdom of Heaven by the word preached, seals and censures, Matth. 16. Ergo, there is a Catholick integral militant Church visible.

If Christ reign by the preached word, seals and censures, over Arg. 9:the Kingdoms of the World, Rev. 11. 15. over the Nations, Isa. 2. 1, 2. Psal. 2 8, 9. Psal. 22. 27, 28. Psal. 96. 10, 11, 12. Psal. 97. 1, 2, 3, 4, &c. Psal. 98. 7, 8 9. Psal. 99. 1, 2, 3. and have a visible government in the house of David, Isa. 9. 7. over the earth, Isa. 11. 4, 10, 11. from sea to sea, Psal. 72. 8 &c. then is there a Catholick integral visible Church: but the former is true.

Obj. All our Divines say it is a Popish tenet, that the Catholick Church is visible: our Divines acknowledge no Church visible, but only a particular Church.

Ans. Mr. Hudson a learned and godly man reaps so cleanly, In what sense our Divines affirm or deny the Church to be visible: The Church which is catholick, in regard of time, and of all ages, and of places, and nations, is not visible, nor is it ever visible, i. e. conspicuously glorious before men, as learned Mr. Hudson.that I shall not cast any sickle into his field, no… is there need.

1. The Papists contend for a catholick visible Church, to set their man of sin over it: this Church includeth (some of them say) Purgatory, and Heaven, and Hell, of both which he bears Salmeron in Matth. 16. 19… Cornel. à Lap. Dat ergo ipse indulgentiam defunctis, non per modum juridicae absolutionis, quia defuncti illi non sunt ampliùs subditi, sed per modum suffragii. Bellarm. De purgato. l. 2. c. 15. Justi defuncti sunt membra hujus corporis. Bellarm. De purg. l. 2. c. 16. Bellarm. De notis Eccles. l. 4. c. 4. Prima nota est, ipsum Catholicae Ecclesiae & Christianorum nom…n. Ibid. Pacian. ad Sympronian, Dicit nomen Catholicum convenire capiti principali, & trunco illius arboris, unde multi …an… va… temporibus excinduntur.Matt 16:19Sir 50:4the Keys. Salmeron, Cornel, à Lapide, they may be loosed that are under the earth by Keys, as members of the body. He gives (saith Cornelius à Lapide) pardons to the dead (invisible members indeed) not by way of juridical absolution, for the dead are no longer subjects on earth, but by way of suffrage. B…llarmin proves from Pet. Cluniacens. that the dead in Purgatory p. 412are members of the catholick Church. And the Pope (saith Bellarmin) as the chief dispenser of the treasures of the Church, may bestow upon those in Purgatory, bona opera poenalia quae in Thesauro sunt, the good works of the godly done by way of suffering. In this the Catholick Church cannot be visible.

2. The Papists contend for a catholick Church visible, such as we believe to be the catholick Church in the Apostles Creed. So Bellarmin makes the name of Catholicks, and the name of Christians all one, and the catholick Church a tree from which, through divers times and ages, branches have been cut. And so must be, as Rodericus de Arriaga, Catholick, extending it self Roder. de Arri. To. 5. tract. de fide disp. 7. sec. 3. Est Catholica, hoc est, communis, universalis; extendit enim se licèt diversis temporibus, ad totum mundū. Ad. Tanne. De fide, spe. disp. 1. q. 3. dub. 3. n. 75, 76. Vincent. Li…inen. Tann…rus Jesuita Tom. 3. Quod ubique, quod ab omnibus, quod semper—de universalitate temporum ad finem usque mundi, à primo sui exo…tu perpetuò—Ps. 88. 30. Ponam in seculum seculi semen ejus, & universalitatem locorum Scripturae—Ps. 8. Dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam. Alb. Pighius Hierarchiae Ecclesiasticae, l. 1. c. 1. pag. 2. Una & universalis, nullo certo loco, nulla regi…ne & patria, nulla Gente, natione aut populo, nullo denique tempore conclusa, circumscripta aut determinata. Whitaker de Eccles. l. 3. ad Duraeum, fol. 69. Catholica Ecclesia non modo nostrae aetatis finibus circumscribenda non est, sed ipsos quoque Patriarchas, Prophetas, Apostolos, Sanctosque omnes qui vel sunt, fuerunt, vel futuri sunt, complectitur; haec Ecclesia ex singulis horum temporum Ecclesiis constans est visibilis… nihil minùs. Anton. Sedeel Respons. Ad fidei quam vocant professionem à Monachis Burdega lensibus factam, A…. 1585. &c. Ar. 60. pag. 5…3. Si Ecclesia Catholica significat ve…os sideles & electos, qui fuerunt, qui sunt, quique futuri sunt, oportet istos Monachos miro oculorum a cum…ne praeditos & perspicuitate, si cernere possint Ecclesiam Catholicam—necessariò igitur constituendum est discrimen inter Ecclesiam Catholicam & Ecclesiam visibilem; nam Ecclesiae visibiles sunt particulares, ut erant Apostolorum tempore Ecclesiae Corinthio…um, Ephesiorum—in his solent esse Hypocritae & Reprobi non pertinentes ad hanc Ecclesiam particularem. See D. Willet 2. Gene. Contra. q. 1. par. 2. pag. 67. Pareus in Ursin. q. 54. Art. 2. pag. 303. Tilenus Syntag. dis. 14. d. 1. Thes. 36, 37. Professo. Leid. in Synop. Pur. Theol. dis. 40. th. 8. Partes hujus Ecclesiae foreign consideratae statuunt Pontificii tres, unam laborantem in purgatorio, alteram triumphantem in coelis, tertiam militantem in terra, &c. Th. 9, 10, 11. praes…im Th. 26, 27, 28, 30, 32, 33.Ps 88:30Ps 8Sir 50:3all the world over in divers ages and times. Ad. Tannerus, The Church is called Catholick for the Universality of the Doctrine, and the Universality of Time, from the beginning of the World to the end, enduring …or ever; and for the Universality of the Place. Now they make the Pope the head and chief Pastor of this Church catholick. D. Whitaker saith, the catholick Church contains not only the Church of our time, but the Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, and all the Saints which have been, are, or shall be to the end; and is this Church which is made up of the Churches of these times visible. These Monks must be exceeding sharp sighted (saith Anton. Sadeel) who see this Church, and see the Apostles and Martyrs in Heaven.

p. 4133. Nor hath Mr. H. cause to cast this signification of visible, that it is taken for conspicuous and glorious. Nor is it worthy the refuting, that he …aith that Bellarmin distinguisheth visible and conspicuously glorious; for he must split a hair of the head, as to its latitude, who can distinguish Bellarmins fifteen notes: many of his own side reduce them to a fewer number.

2. Conspicuity of glory is but visibility in such and such ways, Conspicuity of glory is visibility.as amplitude and multitude all the world over; visibility in glory of preaching, of working miracles, and victory over their enemies, and external prosperity, which are things most visible, and not done in a corner.

3. Their own men speak not, but as Mr. Hudson doth, the Jesuits of Rhemes An. 3. on Matth. 5. explain this conspicuity, The light of the World, and City on a Mountain, and Candle upon a Candlestick, signifieth the Clergy and whole Church, which must needs be visible to the World. See how D. Fulk and Mr. Cartwright answers them. Malderus a Bish. Antwer. profess. Lov. in 22. de virtu. Theol. de Obj. fidei disp. 1. A…. 10. q. 3. The Catholicks yield that the Church is not ever aequè conspicuam, alike conspicuous, Res. ad 3. Habet tamen suas proprietates visibiles, It hath its visible properties, true miracles, works of holiness, antiquity, visible succession, perseverance on the rock: and this is all one as to be conspicuous and visibly glorious. Gregor. de Valentia Tom. 3. in 22. disp. 1. q. 1. de Obj. fidei punct. 7. 6. propriet. p. 142, 143. The Church is not adeo conspicua, that it may be seen with the eyes, but yet it may evidenter omni seculo conspici, be evidently in every age seen, known, and pointed out by the finger, as a City on a mountain, Matth. 5. as the Sun in the Heaven, Psal. 19. And disp. 1. q. 1, punct. 4. pag. 78, 79. he proves the glory of miracles, and other the like, make the Church of p. 414Rome, and not of Sectaries (as he names us) to be visibly known to all the world. And Tannerus Tom. 3. de fide, spe, q. 1. dis. 3. dub. 3. n. 85. Insignibus quibusdam notis inter omnes alios coetus eminet, its conspicuous and glorious above all other societies, by these properties, that it is One, 2. Holy, 3. Catholick in Doctrine, Time, Places. And Causabon. in Epistola ad Cardinalem Baronium. Olim Ecclesia Catholica similis civitati supra montem positae nullo pacto dubia erat, sed nota omnibus, perspicua, certa, longè latèque per orbem diffusa, sub Imperatoribus florens, quorum dominatio ab ortu ad Occasum, à Septentrione ad Meridiem porrigebatu…—at distractionem imperii postea secuta est distractio Ecclesiae Catholicae, ex illo tempore Ecclesia Catholica non desiit esse quidem, sed minus illustris esse coepit. So Iunius disp. Theolo. 43. Th 11. It may be there is no particular Church publicè nota, publickly known on earth, but that all have losed their external splendor. And what this differs from conspicuity and glory let Mr. H. or any man shew: and what glory and conspicuity is in the Christian Churches, and what Sea-ebbings and flowings that glory hath, read (though all be not to be believed which some say) Philip Nicolai. l. 1. de Regno Christ. &c. Bellarmin de notis Eccles. l. 4. c. 7. Io. Gerard. to. 5. de Eccles. Buc. loc. 41. q. 7. pag. 459. Ratione adjunctorum cacholica Ecclesia est invisibilis, quae vera tantum Christi membra, seu electos—complectitur. Id…i…o vocatur invisibilis hominum tantùm respecta. Quia vera fides, quae est differentia constitutiva Ecclesiae (fides vera in coetu non in uno homine) & per quam Ecclesia est id quod est, in corde sita est, & proinde invisibilis—& nisi à Deo foreign, certò cognosi no… potest. A…to. walaeus Magnus Theologus Tom. 1. locor. Comm. de Eccles. pag. 43. Ecclesia invisibilis vocatur Catholica, & comprehendit omnes ve…è …ideles, qui per totum orbem terrarum Dei oculis conspicui sunt; vocatur verò invisibilis, quia universalitas fidelium nulli homini est conspicua. 2. Quia fides & ipsa regeneratio quae est …uj… Ecclesiae …, ab hominibus videri non potest. Ursinus, quo non est major in Theologo…um cho…, Catech. q. 44. Ar. 2. Ioan. Piscator, loc. 23. de Eccles. Thes 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Magnus Colvin. Instit. l. 4. c. 1. Refertur ad omnes electos Dei, in quorum … sunt etiam qui morte defuncti sunt. Sec. 3. Coet…ù ad amplexandsm eam unitatem nihil opus est Ecclesiam ipsam oculis ce… re, vel maribus palpare, quin po…i… co quod in fide sita est, admonemur nihilominus cogitandam, dum intelligentiam nostram praeterit, quam si palam appareat, &c. lib. 4. c. 8. sect. 7, 8, 9 &c. wind…linus Christ. Theo…. 1. c. 28. Th. 16. pag. 578, 579 Luc. T… Pater loc. 16. art. 3. n. 4. Quid sit Catholica, pag. 426. Froneisc. Iunius. The. Theo. disp. 43. th. 4. Cumplectitur ergo haec Ecclesia Catholica omnes universè homines in coelo & in terra, qui fuerunt, sunt, & futuri sunt illius vocationis divinae & grat…o…ae participes, The. 8. Cùm potior pars in coelis triumphans sit, à conspectu hominum remota sit, tota haec Ecclesia visibiiis nobis esse non possit; quinimo quaslibet particulares Ecclesias ad eam paucitatem posse redigi, ut non sit aliqua Christi vera visibilis Ecclesia mundo in terris publicè nota, eam verò interdum externum suum splendorem amittere, hominum oculos latere—asserimus. Chemnitius exam. Conc. Trident. c. 6. can. 7. pag. 285. Catholicum Vincentius Lirinen. rectè definit, quod semper, quod ubique & ab omnibus similiter observatum fuit—neque enim caput à membris, hoc est, Christum ab Ecclesia, & principalia membra; hoc est, Apostolos cum sua doctrina & exemplis à reliquo corpore Ecclesiae resecare debemus, quando de catholica seu universâ Ecclesiâ lequimur. Ioan. Gerhardus tom. 5. de Eccles. c. 11. num. 151. Hujus catholicae Ecclesiae caput est Christus, membra omnes verè credentes, sive in coelis jam dum triumphent, sive in terris adhuc militent—hujus proprietates sunt, quòd sit Sancta, quod invisibilis. Hieron. Zanchius, tom. 7. de Ecces. c. 3. Est fidelium coetus. c. 5. omnes particulares Ecclesiae sunt una & eadem Christi Ecclesia. c. 7. ar. 1. sub hac universali visibili Ecclesia continentur privatae & particulares, seu illius partes, &c. See Turrianus in 22. de fid. spe. de Eccles. disp. 15. dub. 1. disp. 14. dub. 1. dub. 2. Roder. de Arriag. to 5. sect. 4. sect. 5. Bellar. to. 2. de Eccles. Mil. l. 3. c. 12. De pontisic. Rom. l. 1. c. 10. Phil. Gamach. to. 3. disp. de Indulg. c. 3. de protestate applicand: Thesaurum Ecclesiasti. Gregor. de Valent. in 22. tom. 3. de fid. spe. disp. 1. q. 1. de obj. fidei, p. 7. sect. 26. sect. 27. sect. 28. Suarez. tom. de. fid. spe. disp. 9. sect. 8. n. 1, 2, 3.Eccl 11c. 11. sect. 5. n. 184, 185, 186. Euseb. l. 5. Hist. c. 24. Cyprian. de unit. Eccles. Tertullian. contra Iudaeos c. 3. Vega. in opus. de fid. & oper. praesertim. c. 3. Acosta Iesuit. de procuratione Iudorum salutis.

p. 4154. Its not to be passed, that our Divines condemn a visible Our Divines deny popish visibility of … catholick visible body under the Pope, but not the visibility simply of the catholick church.catholick Church only under one Pastor, the Bishop of Rome, the ministerial head and catholick Pastor of Pastors over all the catholick Church on earth, and taking upon him to be Pastor of Pastors: yea, and the Church of Rome is perpetually visible, and (saith Valentia) the Pope is the only head of this catholick visible Church. The Hereticks (saith Suarez) deny in the catholick Church (subjected to the Pope, as the visible head) proprietates ullas visibiles, any visible properties by which it may be known from the Churches of Satan. And therefore the Church must be invisible—and therefore they deny omnem externam hierarchiam Ecclesiae, caput visibile, regulam fidei animatam & visibilem, all the external sacred order of Prelates, the visible head, the living and v…sible rule of faith. That visibility of a head catholic…, and visible body under that head we profess that we deny. Now that the Pope should be the only Pastor of a Church, which by no possibility he can see, and that he is the only feeder of such a flock, to him invisible: Suppose he had the eyes of Argu… ten thousand times, is that visibility of a p. 416Church catholick, of a Church Diocesian, which we deny and detest? but we deny not, but teach that the Church is visible in a right sense.

And 1. we teach that the catholick Church militant on earth is visible in its parts, though it be not in its whole bulk and body all at once visible, as Amesius, who also is in some points Ames. Medulla Theol. l. 1. c. 32. Th. 1. Ecclesia quae in terris agit, quamvis non sit tota simul visibilis, in suis tamen partibus est visibilis.for this new way of Independency. So the whole body of the Heaven in both the Hemispheres is visible when enlightned with the Sun, yet is not the whole Heaven all at once visible to any man living So the whole element of Water is visible, not all at once, and yet is so visible in its parts, in the parts of the Sea, Rivers, Floods, as it were non-sense to say such a part of the Heaven, and of the Sea, as in day light is obvious to our eyes, were simply invisible, in that sense, that we say the mystical body of the catholick Church of sound Believers is invisible, and believed, but not seen.

2. Therefore the Church catholick is 1. considered as comprehending all the families in Heaven and Earth, Eph. 3. 15. Of the catholick church, & the three Scriptural acceptions of the Word.Heb. 12. 22, 23. Col 1. 20. this is the most large catholick Church consisting of elect Men and Angels.

2. The catholick Church is that company of redeemed men for whom Christ died, and it contains all that have been, are, or shall be, that are clarified and presented without spot or wrinkle, sanctified by the washing of water by the word, Eph. 5. 25. Husbands love your Wives, as Christ also loved the Church—27. that he might present it to himself a glorious Church, &c. and to this is the place Eph. 1. 22, 23. referred. For which see Calvin, Beza, Zanchius on the place, and especially solidly learned D. D. Boyd of Trochrigge, learned and sharp Mr. Paul Baines in their learned Commentaries on Ephes. 1. 21, 22. Hence Augustine, It contains all the sanctified ones. But we do not now contend with Papists concerning the catholick Church in August… de Catech. c. 20. Cives sunt omnes sanctificati homines qui fuerunt, & qui sunt, & qui futuri sunt.its latitude of these two acceptions.

As 1. Whether the Elect Angels, and the Glorified in Heaven, and these that are to be members of the catholick visible Church, but are not yet born, are visible members?

2. Whether the Pope be visible head, and have the power of the Keyes to feed with word, censures, and seals, the Elect p. 417Angels, the Patriarchs, Prophets, Martyrs, &c. who are now preferred in glory?

3. Whether the Church catholick in that latitude containing such noble members, can erre in a general Councel, or out of it, or can erre in Fundamentals, and cease to be a Church? As to the latter acceptions, our Divines condemn Papists, who tell us that the Pope is the visible head of the visible catholick Church: we say we believe there is a catholick Church, but visible it is not. And neither Mr. Hudson, nor I, nor any of ours do dispute for a catholick integral visible Church, or for a catholick body of Presbyters and Officers that are, have been, and now are glorified, and shall be born, as if they were the first formal subject of the Keyes. Mr. H. loses his time in blotting paper to make us dispute any such question, and to bring in popish inferences against us in that.

But 3. there is an integral catholick visible Church, to and Confess. of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster, An. 1063, 1644 1645, &c. c. 25. And the large Catechism of that Assembly, pag 91, 92. Synopsis purio. Theol. per. 5. 5. Theo. professores in Academia Leydensi disp. 40. de Eccles. pag. 567. pres. th. 27 33, 34. The catholick Church is divers ways visible.for which Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. 1 Cor. 12. 12, 13, &c. The Lord hath given all his Ordinances, as by succession of ages it existeth on earth. See the accurate Confession of Faith. See judicious dispute of the Professors of Leyden by Anton. Walaeus worthy to be read of all, in which they solidly observe, that many confound the particular Church, and the visible, and invisible, and universal Church which are indeed to be distinguished, for the universal integral Church is in its own way visible.

1. In its parts, as is said before.

2. In the community of profession of the same faith, both in preaching, confession, and writings, so that it hath no sense to limit visibility to one single congregation, as our Brethren doe. For our eyes may as well see two congregations, and many to be visible Saints, and to worship in a Church-way the same Lord Iesus, as we see the members of our own one congregation.

3. Whether Synods be for counsel and advice only, as our Brethren say?

Or 2. For pastoral teaching, and dogmatick determining of truths, for edification, as Mr. Cotton contrary to his Brethren teacheth.

Or 3. For jurisdiction: it is against common sense, to deny p. 418that the integral catholick Church is visible in Synods, whether Occumenical, or National, or Provincial; For the representative is as visible as the congregation. And whereas our Divines say, that the Church is invisible, because faith which is the specifick and constitutive form of the Church, is invisible, and known only to God the searcher of hearts; they are not so to be expounded, as if this were their argument to prove that the catholick Church is invisible, and the congregation only visible. Our Divines argument to prove that the catholick church is invisible, is not because faith is only believed, and not visible.Nor do they use such an argument for such a conclusion; for the true faith of a congregation is as invisible and known to God only; yea, the faith of one single member is as latent and invisible to the eye of sense, and more latent then the faith of the whole catholick visible Church: for faith is perswaded there is a visible Church, for the Scripture saith, that Christ hath a seed: but the Scripture sayes not that this or that man, or that this congregation hath saving faith. Its true, the profession of the catholick Church is, because of the universality, of Saints remoter from our senses, and so less visible; which hinders not that to be true which our Divines say, that in time of great persecution, the Churches knew not one another, as saith Augustine, who also compareth her to the Moon, which August. de baptism. contra Donatist. l. 6. c. 4. August. in Psal. 20. Fuilb. Ans. to the Rhemists, Rev. 12. An. 2. Cartwright Ans. to Rhemists, Rev. 12. An. 5. Beda hist. l. 5. c. 22. Omnes Ecclesiae per orbem unam Ecclesiam faciunt.Ps 20Rev 12is often …id, as in the time of Elias. And Ierom tells that the Christian World sighed under Arrianism. The Pope by cruel wars banished those called Waldenses, Albigenses, Pauperes de Lugduno Picardi; until Wickliff rose there, was (saith D. Fulk) about the time of 350. years, great darkness. See Cartwright. Nor is it possible for Mr. H. to prove, that when our Divines do say, particular Churches are visible, that they mean Mr. H. his particular Independent congregations only: he is a great stranger in our Divines writings, who knows not, that from Matth. 18. Tell the Church, they prove that a general Councel hath juridical power to censure Peter, or the Pope. Since learning was, it was never counted a point of popery (except all our Reformers be Papists) which Mr. H. citeth from Turrianus, if it be spoken in Thesi (but he applies it to the visible body under the Pope in Hypothesi) for it is but what Beda and others say from Scripture, Eph. 4. 1, 2. But as Papists in Thest speak soundly in the attribute of Omnipotency: so here, when p. 419in Hypothest applying the Doctrine of Omnipotency to their In what sense some of ours say the Churches in the primitive times were congregational. See Didoclavius i. e. Mr. Calderwood in altari Damasc. de Episcoporum gradibus, c. 2. p. 39, 40. item de Episcopi potestate extensivâ. p. 282, 283 Item quod Episcopus & Presbyter sint ejusdē ordinis, p 298, 299, 300 D. D. Ro. Bodius à Trochoregia Com. in Eph. c. 4. v. 11. p. 504 M. Bains Diocesian Trial. Euseb. hist. l. 3. Ignat. Epist. ad Eph. Eccle. Tertull. in Apol.Eph 4:11miracles, to Transubstantiation, to Adoration of Images, they vanish in vain speculations. Nor can we deny, but some of our own have gone too far: one in saying, that the Churches of the Apostles were not so numerous, but they met all in one place, and that the Church of Alexandria, Hierapolis, Ierusalem, were congregations that met in one place: they would explain their mind in that point more circumstantiately, if they were to speak thereof again. But their purpose is in the point of Prelacy to prove a true conclusion of P. Bains, that the Scripture gives no warrant to a Diocesan Church, that is, to 60 or 100 congregational Churches to be fed by Word, Seals and Censures, by one little Monarch called a Prelate: whereas the Church fed so, as is said, is a single congregation meeting in the same place, foreign.

2. There cannot be an ordinary exercise of the Keys by the weekly converse of the Officers of 80 or 100 Churches so many miles separated one from another.

3. Its true, Eusebius in divers places calls the Churches of Alexandria, Hierapolis, &c. Par…cias, congregational meetings; and Ignatius writes to the Church of Ephesus, that they should convene foreign; and Tertullian saith, the Churches of his time met in one body. All which is true of the Churches distributively. But Cyprian shall resute them, who says, the Church of Carthage was one congregation. Scripture, Reason, Fathers, shall quickly speak against them, who shall say the Church of Rome, of Constantinople, were one congregational Church under Cornelius and Chrysostome.