Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 3, Discourse (2 of 5)

Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 3 · Discourse (2 of 5)

p. 83N. C.

What are they? I know none.

C.

He tells you not only what his own, but what the N. C. opinion is about Juſtification by Faith, in theſe words: We ſay, only Faith juſtifies as an Inſtrument, though not that Faith which is alone mmPag. 19.Now Mr. Baxter I aſſure you, is none of thoſe, but muſt be exempted out of his We. For there being two things which this Boldface affirms, Firſt, that only Faith juſtifies; and ſecondly, that it juſtifies as an Inſtrument; he will ſay neither of them for any good, but looks on them as dangerous Poſitions.

N. C.

You juſt ſure, or elſe Phil. is in a bad caſe.

C.

It is as I tell you. For to ſay that Faith only juſtifies, is to ſay, that God doth not ſay true, who tells us, we are not juſtified by Faith only. This Mr. Baxter repeats over and over again nnIn his Diſput. of Juſtification and in his Letter.: but I muſt cite the very words, or elſe I fear he will wrangle. The Queſtion is, ſaith he ooIb. pag. 192.; in what ſenſe we are juſtified by Works, and not by Faith only. You anſwer in a direct contradiction to St. James, ſaying, it is by Faith only. So dare not I directly ſay, it is not by works, when p. 84God ſaith it is: But think I am bound to diſtinguiſh and ſhew in what ſenſe Works juſtifie, and in what not, and not to ſay flatly againſt God, that we are not juſtified by works under any notion, but only by the Faith that works ppWhich is Philag. his Aſſertion.. A denial of Gods aſſertions is an ill expounding of him.

N. C.

This I confeſs is plain.

C.

He ſpeaks as home to the other part, and not only denies that Faith juſtifies as an Inſtrument qqConfeſſ. of Faith, p. 88, 89., but ſaith, it is beſides, nay, againſt the Scripture, to ſay that Faith juſtifies as an InſtrumentrrIb. pag. 295.

N. C.

I did not think Phil. had claſht with M. Baxter, and held Errors of ſuch a Nature.

C.

Nor he neither; for he doth not uſe to think, but only imagine. If he had read and conſidered his Books, he would have found, that thoſe who ſay Faith juſtifies as a ssQuà Inſtrumentum, p 95.true Inſtrument, do moſt certainly make it to juſtifie as an action of man; and in ſaying that it juſtifies as an Inſtrument, yet not as an Act, or by Actions, they ſpeak moſt groſs contradiction: ſeeing an Inſtrument is an Efficient Cauſe, and Action is the Cauſality of the Efficient.

p. 85N. C.

I do not well underſtand the danger of this.

C.

He tells you ttDiſput. of Juſtification. p. 224. p. 214, 216., It makes man his own juſtifier, or the next cauſe of his Juſtification, and by his own act to help God to juſtifie him: For ſo all Inſtruments do help the principal cauſe. And yet by a ſelf contradiction this opinion makes Faith to be of no moral worth, and ſo no vertue or grace, yea (I think) it lays the blame of mans infidelity on God. For the aſſertors of it have a device to make it a paſſive Inſtrument, from whence follow theſe abſurdities.

N. C.

I will not trouble my brains about it; but I ſee I may omit a Queſtion, which he asks you, viz. Do you not think that good works are the Inſtrumental cauſe of our Juſtification as well as Faith?

C.

I muſt tell you, in brief, that all the Queſtions he propounds to me in that place, are ſuch as he would never have askt; if he had but attain'd a ſmattering knowledg in Mr. Baxter's writings; whom he commends, juſt as he diſcommends me, without underſtanding him. For he would have taught him, That neither Faith, nor any work of p. 86ours are cauſes of our Juſtification, either Principal or InſtrumentaluuConfeſſ. of Faith. pag. 31. and other places. Diſput. of Juſtific. pag. 75.

N. C.

But there is one Queſtion he asks, wherein he prays you to ſpeak out, for it is ſuſpected there is a Snake in your Graſs.

C.

A Maggot in his Brain.

N. C.

And that is, are not Faith and Obedience, both one, and the ſame thing?

C.

He hath a reſolution in Mr. Baxter. Our firſt Faith is not the ſame with Obedience to Chriſt (how ſhould it?) yet it eſſentially contains are ſolution and Covenant to obey him xxConfeſſ. of Faith, p. 38, 39.. But there is no end of theſe impertinent Queſtions. You will ask me next, how I prove my ſelf not to be a Papiſt?

N. C.

No, I'le let the reſt alone; becauſe I ſee what you will ſay: and this indeed was not the main thing that you and I firſt intended to debate. Yet there are ſome Queſtions about this matter in another place, to which I would gladly have, though it be but, a brief Anſwer.

C.

Where ſhall we find them?

N. C.

There where he comes to your deſcription of Faith, pag. 63.

p. 87C.

I remember the place. Where I find him in the ſame poſture that the Biſhop of Galloway did his Reprover; vexing himſelf with his own anger, tumbling and weltring in the puddle of his tumultuous thoughts, whereof he cannot rid himſelf; bragging moſt vainly, but producing nothing that may be accounted worthy of an anſwer yyDefence, pag. 169.. For I having told you that the Faith our Saviour ſpeaks of in thoſe words, Joh. 6.29. This is the work of God that you beleive on him whom he hath ſent (viz. juſtifying and ſaving Faith) is an effectual perſwaſion that Jeſus is ſent of God: He very gravely tells me that I deny Faith to conſiſt in aſſent or perſwaſion (which are the ſame thing) and ſo contradict the men of my way. Was there ever ſuch a giddy-braind man as this ſet a cock-horſe, who poſts away without his Errand, and tells the world, I deny Faith to be an aſſent or perſwaſion, when I tell him it is? Doth he no… deſerve to have his fingers rapt, or to be ſoundly ſcourged, that takes Pen in hand to confute a Book, and never minds, or elſe underſtands not what he writes againſt?

N. C.

But you ſay, Faith conſiſts not in a bare perſwaſion, &c.

p. 88C.

True, That ſaving Faith, which I ſpeak of, doth not conſiſt in a bare aſſent to the Truth of the Goſpel, but yet it is an aſſent, though it be ſomething more. Aſſent is the General nature of Faith, but there is a difference between Faith that is ſaving, and Faith that is not ſaving, which I there expreſſed by the word effectual. And here again he blunders, and keeps a pudder to make a plain ching obſcure.

N. C.

You will not ſay it was plain ſure.

C.

Yes, but I will: though nothing can be ſo plain and clear, which th… mans confuſed thoughts ſhall not trouble. The difference I made between this Faith which our Saviour ſpeaks of and a bare perſwaſion that he came from God, was this: that it is a perſwaſion of that Truth with its fruits and effects. Which I expeſſed in theſe words, becoming his Diſciples, ſincere Profeſſion of his Religion and living according to it. For unleſs, our minds being convinced of the Truth, it have this effect upon our wills to make us conſent to obey it, and ſincerely purpoſe to do according to our perſwaſion; and unleſs alſo, if we live, we make good this purpoſe, and both p. 89profeſs and perform obedience to the Goſpel, we do not the work of God, which our Saviour ſpeaks of, nor have that faith which will bring us to everlaſting life. This he might have found affirm'd by Mr. Baxter in as round words as mine, if he had ſpent that time in reading, and meditating, which he ſpends in ſcribling. It's all one, ſaith he, zzAppendix to Diſput. of Right to the Sacraments, p. 509.in my account to believe in Chriſt, and to become a Chriſtian, &c. To be a believer aaDiſput. of Juſtif. p. 77, 78., and to be a Diſciple of Chriſt in Scripture ſenſe is all one; and ſo to be a Diſciple, and to be a Chriſtian: and therefore Juſtifying faith comprehends all that is eſſential to our Diſcipleſhip, or Chriſtianity, as its conſtitutive cauſes. To which he adds this Propoſition, Thoſe therefore who call any one act, or two, by the name of Juſtifying Faith, and all the reſt by the name of works, and ſay, that it is only the act of recumbency on Chriſt as Prieſt, or on Chriſt as dying for us, or only the act of apprehending or accepting his imputed righteouſneſs, by which we are juſtified, &c. do pervert the Doctrine of Faith and Juſtification; ☞and their Doctrine tendeth to corrupt the very nature of Chriſtianity it ſelf. I could add a great deal more with as much eaſe as I can write, but that I think this ſufficient to be replyed to p. 90his long babble about the Nature o… Faith, and we muſt not ſuppoſe the world at leiſure to read the ſame thing over perpetually. If it do not ſatisfie him, let him enjoy the vain conceit of his own skill; nay, let him crow over me, and bear himſelf with the ſame pertneſs (to uſe an expreſſion I have ſomewhere met with) that a Daw ſits cawing an… pecking upon a Sheeps back: He will be but a Jack Daw for all that.

N. C.

You grant then, that there may be a perſwalion where it is not effectual.

C.

Who doubts of it? But it is not ſaving Faith; which was the thing … were ſpeaking of. As he might have obſerved, had he not kept ſuch a cawing to himſelf, that he could not hear us.

N. C.

He makes account the Queſtions he asks you there are unanſwerable.

C.

He doth ſo. And not to diſſemble, they ſeem to be no leſs ſubtil and profound than the admired Cryptick Queſtion of Chryſippus; if you ever heard of it.

N. C.

I know not what it means.Lucian in …u Sale of Philoſ.

C.

I'le tell you then, if you will Anſwer me. Do you know your own Father, or Mother?

p. 91N. C.

Yes ſure.

C.

Suppoſe then, I ſhould bring one veil'd into your company, and ſhould ask you, whether you know him, what would you ſay?

N. C.

That I know him not.

C.

But it is your Father; and therefore if you know not who it is, you know not your own Father.

N. C.

It is a notable fetch.

C.

Juſt thus your Champion aſſaults me. Do you know Sir, What Faith is? Yes ſay I: He finds the Queſtion anſwered in my Book. But he diſguiſes, muffles and puts it into a great many ſtrange ſhapes, as well as his wit will ſerve him; and asks me again, Is this it you call Faith? To which he anſwers for me, No, and then concludes moſt ſmartly, thus you ſee, you know not what Faith is; For this is it you called Faith. A moſt profound Diſputer, I proteſt. At the next Sale of Philoſophers bbHe pretends to be one, p. 246.; when you hear them cryed about the Street, I pray enquire after the price of him. It is poſſible ſome may venture to give three farthings for him; eſpecially when they hear with what excellent qualities he is endued. For be it known to all, he hath p. 92the beſt skill of any man I know, in … king Galamaufry's and Hotchpotches; … larding of Engliſh with bits of Lati… and in making of ſlaps and ſauces … diſcourſes. He is furniſht with a wh… ſhopful of ſhreds, a Magazine of Ta… and may ſet up an Office for Apologie… which he hath at his fingers end, … your fault what it will. He can ſhuffle, … wrangle, and ſcold; all theſe in perſection. And beſides, he hath a bo… face, and can lye at no aim; and … you ſhould chance to looſe him, yo… may know him from all the men in th… world by certain Marks he hath abo… him. For where you find a man at a… turns, putting you off with, it may be… it is ſaid, for any thing I know, all, … ſome, and ſuch like words which I before noted, lay hold of him, that's the man. Beſides, he hath either robbe… another, or elſe you may know him by the Ordeal and Plowſhares, Pelion and Oſſa, the Pomps, and the indelible Ch… racter.

N C.

I cannot imagine what you mean.

C.

They that have read a Book about the Rebuilding of London know well enough. For there ccP. 178. 217, 332, 335.they meet with all p. 93theſe, juſt as we do here in this: by which you may know that he hath ſuch a ſet of words and phraſes as will be ſure to diſcover him. And now I ſpeak of Pomps, you ſhall give me leave to ſhew you what a vain pretenſe this Ignorant man m…kes to Learning. The ancient Chriſtians he tells you ddP. 179. of Sober Anſwer.having found the great inconvenience of Stage Plays, and increaſe of wickedneſs by them, p…r a word on purpoſe into the Baptiſmal vow to deter people from going to them, and that is the Pomps of this World. For ſome Gloſſaries ſay, that Stage-plays were formerly called Pomps, if you will believe Biſhop Uſher, whom, ſaith he, I have ſome where found quoted for this. And ſo have I; in the Book about the Rebuilding of London eeP. 217., where the Author ſaith Poſitively, Biſhop Ʋſher hath obſerved that the Ancients inſerted a paſſage againſt Ssage-plays in the Baptiſmal vow, viz. That we ſhould renounce the Pomps of the world: now Pomps (ſaid he) did of old ſignifie Stage-plays. But where the Biſhop hath obſerved it, or ſaid it, he tells us not; ſo that in effect he quotes his own Authority, when he tells us here, I have found him ſomewhere quoted: and draws this concluſion out of his own p. 94imagination, that though we allow Play… in a due meaſure, yet the old Chriſtr… ans did not, but obliged thoſe that were baptized to renounce them.

N. C.

And what ſay you to it?

C.

I have told you, he ſpeaks out a of his own idle head, and there is not a word of Truth in what he ſays. For Pomps never ſignified any ſuch Plays as ours.

N. C.

Will you not take Biſhop Uſker's word?

C.

I will ſee it firſt, and have it under his hand: for I cannot truſt this vain talker, who doth not underſtand, I plainly ſee, what he reads. To pretend to know all that Biſhop Uſher ever writ, or ſaid, would be vanity in me: but I will not believe it, till I have better authority than his, that he ever gave this ſenſe of the word Pomp. Some Plays, or rather Games and Publick Sights ffWe render Ludi by the word Plays, but we ſhould rather ſay, Shows or Common Sights made for the peoples entertainment, and conſecrated to ſome Deity: called Spectacula., he, or any body elſe might ſay were by a figure called Pomps: but the Ancients diſtinguiſhed them; and to ſpeak exactly, we muſt ſay, that the Pomps of the World were not thoſe things which the Romans called Ludi, and Spectacula, which we ſhould render Sports, Sights, or Games; but that ſtately Proceſſion p. 95which was made before one of them. For Pomp, you muſtknow, is in its firſt ſignification nothing elſe but the ſending of ſomething; and the carrying it alſo from one place to another ggThence Mercury was called foreign, becauſe he carried down and tranſmitted ſouls to Hades., more particularly, the carrying ſomething to be ſhown and expoſed to publick view, through the Streets. But the word moſt properly belonged to that ſplendid and magnificent Proceſſion (as I may call it) which went before the Races and Combates in the Roman Circus, which were the moſt famous ſports among them. So Tertullian aſſures us hhCircenſium paulo pompatior ſuggeſtus, quibus peopriè hoc nomen pompa, praecedit, &c.; who likewiſe informs us more particularly of what that Pomp conſiſted. In the firſt place there was a long row of the Images of their Gods publikely expoſed and carried in the S…reet; then of the Images of men of Noble Families, at whoſe charges thoſe Sports were made; then followed a great number of Chariots and Waggons of divers ſorts (which have much troubled the brains of Criticks), then the Seats or Thrones of their Gods, then their Crowns, and their Robes and Ornaments; together with all the Sacrifices which were to be offered, and all the Sacred implements belonging to p. 96them. After which came their Colledges of Augurs, their Prieſts, and their Civil Officers. This, in ſhort, was the Pomp, as every body knows who hath read his Book De Spectaculis, chap. 7. Where he tells us, that this was the principal part of the old Idolatry, there being ſuch a great number of their Gods (too many for me now to mention) carried in this great and ſolemn Proceſſion at Rome: Which was the reaſon, I conceive, that it was imitated in the Provinces diſtant from the City. Where though it was performed with leſs care and ſolemnity, as he tells us, yet that did not make the crime leſs to accompany it. For whereſoever the Pomp of the Circus was (theſe are his words) though there be but a few Images carried about, there is Idolatry in one. And though there be but one Chariot drawn, it is Jupiter's wane. Let the Idolatry be ſet out ſordidly, or in a better garb, it makes no difference, for all is upon the account of the ſame crime. All this conſidered, I take theſe, till I am better informed, to be the Pomps renounced in Baptiſm; which Chriſtians were by no means to attend and go along with, or, as Apuleius iiContinuare pompam. L. 11 Metamorph. p. 242. Edit. 1650.ſpeaks, to continue the p. 97Pomp. For it was to do an honour to falſe Gods, and being preſent at theſe, they might be in danger to be inticed to downright Idolatry by the bravery and magnificence of the ſhow: which was ſo great, that all ſplendid and ſtately things, whether in ſpeeches or actions, have been ſince called by the name of Pompous. I know there was a Pomp at their Triumphs, and at great Funerals kkSee Pricaeus in l. 2. Apuleil Metam. p. 120.and other times, but theſe which I have named were the Pomps which Believers promiſed to forſake. And I find it objected to them as a crime by Caecilius a Heathen, in the Dialogue of Minutius Faelix, (who follows Tertullian in his very words) that they abſtained from honeſt Pleaſures (as he called them) not enduring to ſee their Spectaeles, nor to be preſent at their Pomps llNon ſpectacula vi… ſitis, non Pompis intereſtis. p. 15. Edit. Heraldi, 1613. where Rigaltius notes how antient this form of Renunciation was.. To which he replies in the end of his Book, we abſtain from unlawful pleaſures, your Pomps and Spectacles, whoſe original we both know to have been from your Religion, and whoſe hurtful inticements we condemn mmQuorum & de Sacris originem novimus, &c. p. 54.. And immediately he inſtance; (as if they were the principal entertainments to enſnare them) in the madneſs of the People at the Circenſian Sports nnFor thoſe he underſtands by Ludicarales.. Theſe were ſo inviting, p. 98that, notwithſtanding their Renunciation, we underſtand by St. Cyprian, (who tranſcribes a great deal of Minutius) ſome Chriſtians not only went to theſe publike Spectacles, but alſo pleaded for their ſo doing; ſaying, Where do we find them prohibited? What place of Scripture ſpeaks againſt them? nay, Is not Helias called the Chariots of Iſrael, &c? and did not David dance before the Ark? and do we not read of Pſalteries, Timbrels and Harps, &c? The Apoſtle alſo ſpeaking of our Spiritual Combate, borrows examples from the wreſtlings, and races, &c. which are at theſe Spectacles. Why may not one of the faithful therefore, behold that which thoſe Holy men might write? Thus they laboured (as you do now in other caſes) with words and phraſes of Scripture to defend their dangerous practice. To whom he replies, among other things, Helias being the Chariot of Iſrael, is no argument that you may go to behold the Circenſianraces, for he never ran in any Circus ooL. de ſpectac.. And, at laſt, to ſtrike all dead, he tells them, the Scripture prohibited all theſe Spectacles when it took away all Idolatry, the Mother of all their publike ſports ppOmnium ludorum Matrem.; from whence all theſe p. 99Monſters of vanity qqThat is a word he uſes more th…n once, for theſe ſpectacles which is joyned with Pomp in the Baptiſmal vow.and levity came. For what ſpectacle is there without an Idol? What ſhow without a Sacrifice? what publique combate that is not conſecrated to the dead? What ſhould a Faithful Chriſtian do among theſe? &c. Let him know that they are all the inventions of Damons, and not of God. And then as he had done before (ſpeaking of Helias) ſo he again mentions the Circenſian ſpectacles; and tells us they were the eldeſt of all, being conſecrated by Romulus himſelf to Conſus, the God of Counſel, for helping him to take away the Sabinian Virgins. He that would more fully underſtand how apt theſe Pomps might be to enchant vulgar minds, and conſequently how neceſſary it was the ſight of them ſhould be prohibited to Chriſtian people, may read the rare deſcription which Apuleius (in his Mileſian Tales rrL. XI. pag. 243, 244, &c.) hath left us of the great Pomps ssAnteludia magnae Pompae.wherein the Mother of the Gods was carried, together with all the chief Ornaments of the moſt powerful Deities ttPotentiſſimo…um Deorum exuvias., and the fine Sights which went before it. Nothing was ſo grateful to the people as this; becauſe they could pleaſe their Gods, they thought, and themſelves both together. The Pomp being ſo contrived, p. 100that it was a mixture of Devo… on and Mirth; and the works of the moſt ſtately Religion uuOpera… magnificae Religionis.were preſented to them among chearful Ceremonies, and merry Spectacles xxInter hilares Ceremonias, & feſtiva ſpectacula, &c. p. 242..

N. C.

I am ſorry theſe Pomps came in our way, for they have diverted us too long from that which we were ſpeaking of. viz. Faith in Chriſt. Hath he not made it plain you have abuſed us, in ſaying, we take Faith to be no more than a relying on Chriſt for the forgiveneſs of ſins? p. 67.

C.

No. He hath neither made that, not any thing elſe plain; unleſs it be his own Ignorance, or ſomething worſe. I have abuſed no body; but the poor people miſerably abuſe themſelves (by the means of ſuch men as he) who are generally of that perſwaſion.

N. C.

But they were taught other ways (as he tells you) by the Aſſembly, who ſay, that Faith in Jeſus Chriſt is a ſaving grace, whereby we receive and reſt upon him alone for Salvation, as he is offered to us in the Goſpel, that is, as Prephet, Prieſt, and King yySober Anſwer, p. 67..

C.

I remember the greateſt part of theſe words are in the ſhorter Catechiſm: but, Why did he not tell us ſo? and p. 101who gave him Authority to add thoſe words in the concluſion, that is, as Prieſt, Prophet and King? I am ſure they are not there?

N. C.

That's a ſmall matter, The Aſſembly themſelves warrant that addition, who explain their meaning, (he tells you) by quoting for it, Iſa. 33.22. The Lord is our Judg, our Law-giver, our King, and he will ſave us.

C.

I cannot tell whether I ſhould ſtand amazed at the Ignorance, or the impudence and falſneſs of this (Writer, I cannot call him, but) Scribler.

N. C.

Why? what's the matter now?

C.

The Aſſembly quote no ſuch place as that which he mentions, but expound their meaning, by referring us to another Text in the ſame Prophet, Iſa. 26.3.4. where there is mention only of truſting in the Lord. Will you never leave this Trade of cheating, by adding and taking away from Books, according to your humor and fancy? To what will thoſe mens impudence arrive hereafter; who, while things are freſh in memory, are ſo bold as to take this Licenſe?

p. 102N. C.

Why ſhould not I believe him as ſoon as you?

C.

Believe neither of us. But go and ſearch your ſelf the eldeſt and moſt Authentick editions, printed either here in England, or by the approbation and the Act of the General Aſſembly in Scotland, and you ſhall meet with no ſuch Scripture as this which he thruſts upon us: nor any at all out of the old Teſtament, but only that which I have mentioned. Iſa. 26.3.4. I have ſeen ſeveral, which I ſhall not ſtand particularly to name **the firſt of thoſe was 1649. which cites the place now nam'd.. There is none I ſuppoſe can be of greater credit with you, than that ſet forth zzin quarto 1658., together with the larger Catechiſme and confeſſion of Faith: recommended with a ſolemn preface by a great many Miniſters, and this Gentleman among the reſt, to the uſe of private Families. This gives you the places of Scripture in words at length, but this which he quotes is not to be met withal among them. Nor is it in a late Edition of the ſhorter Catechiſme 1667. printed after the ſame manner.

N. C.

Do you think he put it in out of his own head?

C.

I know not what to think. But p. 103a man that had a liſt to imitate his vile way of writing might ſay, it is poſſible, for ſome reaſon that is ſuggeſted, that he was acceſſary to the fraud.

N. C.

Fie upon it. Do not leave it to us, to imagine reaſons.

C.

But he doth aap. 82., as you ſhall hear, when he talks of my being no enemy to Sacriledge, after this very faſhion.

N. C.

And will you follow him in ſuch wicked courſes?

C.

No. I only told you what a man might do who ſtudied to pay him in his own coin. And to deal more fairly with him than he deſerved, he might add this reaſon for his Conjecture. I met a good while ago with one edition of that Shorter Catech. Printed by A. Maxwel 1660. into which ſome body hath foiſted this place of Scripture which he mentions, in the room of the other which the Aſſembly affixed to their definition. Now how he came to be beſt acquainted with this Edition, or prefer it before all others (even that large one with his own hand to it) one cannot well conceive, might a man ſay, unleſs it be for the ſame reaſon that people love their own Children p. 104better than any elſe. But for a this I conclude nothing. Let me only ask, which way you will conclude in this caſe? Did he know there was this Alteration made in the texts of Scripture, and that this which he quotes was not in the Edition to which he hath given his Approbation under his hand; or did he not? If not, then he is not ſo well skill'd in your Divines as he pretends, nor fit to talk of theſe matters; he is a ſtranger to his Catechiſm, and recommends that to the peoples remembrance, which he forgets himſelf. If he did know; then I ask how he durſt tell us this in the name of the Aſſembly, and ſay they prove their propoſition by this place, when his Conſcience told him they did not? Is it not an high degree of wickedneſs to countenance, or indeavour to continue ſuch a fraud? May not all your party juſtly buffet him, for abuſing the Aſſembly and making them write that which they never meant? For he expreſly tells us, they quote this place, Iſa. 33.22. which, as it is nothing to the purpoſe, ſo was not choſen by them to back their doctrine withal.

p. 150N. C.

It was ſome miſtake, you may be ſure.

C.

Not in him that put out that Edition, whoever he was; for he induſtriouſly changed the Scriptures, to bend their words to his own ſenſe.

N. C.

I think the Title page of that Edition tells you, that the proofs in words at length, are either ſome of the formerly quoted places, or others gathered from the Aſſemblies other writings.

C.

Its well obſerved; for it is a confeſſion of a change, according to another mans judgment and not their own. And this Phil. if he had been the man he would be taken for, would have carefully noted. And ſince he was ſpeaking of the Aſſemblies opinion he ought not to have alledged any proofs of it, but thoſe which they quoted themſelves for it; eſpecially conſidering that he wholly relyes on that place of Scripture to ſhew their ſenſe. As for him who made the Alteration, he did not deal ſincerely and as became an upright man. For where ſhall we find this new proof in their other writings? They never wrote any thing elſe about theſe matters but the larger Catechiſm and the Confeſſion of Faith, p. 106and there is no ſuch Scripture alledged in either of thoſe when they ſpeak of this buſineſſe. And now I mention the larger Catechiſme again, of which the leſter is an abridgment; one would think it had been more fit for him to fetch the explication of their words and take their meaning from thence, rather than from the corrupt gloſſes put upon the ſhorter. For they could better expreſs their own mind themſelves, than any of their Diſciples. Now if you go thither, you ſhall find they determine faith to the promiſes as its object, and make it a reſting on Chriſt and his righteouſneſs for pardon of ſin and accepting our perſons, without any mention of any reſpect to him as a Prophet or King. Let us read the words. Juſtifying Faith is a ſaving grace wrought in the heart of a ſinner by the Spirit and word of God, whereby being convinced of Sin and miſery, &c. he not only aſſents to the truth of the promiſe of the Goſpel, but receives and reſts upon Chriſt and his righteouſneſs therein held forth, for pardon of ſin, and for the accepting and accounting of his perſon righteous in the ſight of God for Salvation. Judge now whether I wrong'd you in p. 107that which I ſaid concerning Faith, which it is plain you have been taught to think is nothing elſe in effect but this, to rely upon Chriſt for forgiveneſs of ſins. And ſhould your Child ask you the meaning of thoſe words in the ſhorter Catechiſme, and ſay, How is Chriſt held forth or offered to us in the Goſpel? I pray tell me what Anſwer you would return. Would not you, who are exhorted to read thoſe Books and inſtruct your Family out of them, reply to him in this manner? Child, the larger Catechiſme, which you muſt learn next, informs you, that he is held forth as our righteouſneſſe, and ſo you muſt receive him and reſt on him for pardon and accepting of your perſon as righteous, according to the promiſe of the Goſpel.

N. C.

I think I ſhould teach them in that manner. But I remember withal that in their Confeſſion of Faith. chap. 14. they tell us ſomething elſe, viz. that the Principal Acts of ſaving Faith are receiving and reſting on Chriſt alone for Juſtification, Sanctification, and eternal life by virtue of the Covenant of Grace.

C.

True. But you know that this is not ſo much read as the other, and is p. 108more fitted for Divines than you; not are any of you wont to read it, till you have the former perſwaſion rooted in your hearts. Beſides, they do not ſpeak here of Faith as juſtifying, but of the principal acts of ſaving Faith: and you know they uſe to make a difference between theſe two. They put alſo relying on him for Juſtification in the firſt place: and more than that, in the eleventh Chapter, which is concerning Juſtification, they tell you, that Faith receiving and reſting on Chriſt and his Righteouſneſs is the alone Inſtrument of Juſtification. And therefore the common opinion is, that it Juſtifies as it hath a reſpect to the blood of Chriſt and his Righteouſneſs. But I have a more mighty Argument to prove that this is the Orthodox ſenſe of that Aſſembly, which is from the Parliament it ſelf. Who in their Ordinance of Octob. 20. 1645. giving Rules and Directions concerning Suſpenſion from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, in caſe of Ignorance or Scandal, deliver this Definition of Faith which a Communicant is to be inſtructed in, It is a grace whereby we believe and truſt in Chriſt for remiſſion of ſin and life everlaſting, according to the promiſe of the p. 109Goſpel bbAnd that you know is to thoſe who believe.. And by this Faith alone, he is to know, Chriſt and his benefits are applied. This is the more to be obſerved, becauſe they made this Ordinance, conſidering the Wonderful Providence of God, in calling them to the great and difficult work of reforming and purging his Church and People, as you read in the Preface; and becauſe this definition is again repeated in the Form of Church Government, to be uſed in the Church of England and Ireland, after advice had with the Aſſembly of Divines ccAug. 29. 1648. p. 29..

N. C.

You pack a great many things together, which I had forgotten—

C.

You may ſee by that, I have ſtudied your Catechiſm as well as ours, though I have not told you my name. By which he may know, that I am old enough to ſhew, if I pleaſed, how deeply Antinomianiſm is rooted in your peoples hearts, notwithſtanding all that Mr. Baxter, and others, have done to pluck it up. For ſuch men as he who talk rawly and negligently of Divine things, help to maintain and ſupport it. Nor do I ſee any reaſon to alter my opinion, that many of you are Antinomians, and do not know it; juſt as I told you the laſt time ddContinuation of the Fr. Deb. p. 87.. that you are p. 110wont to rail very often (like this Hotſpur of yours) even when you ſay you aborr it.

N. C.

I abhorr thoſe reflections you made upon what was done and ſaid by ſome men in the late times, and I think he hath School'd you to purpoſe for it. Are you not ſenſible how oft you broke his Majeſties gracious Act of Pardon? And will you think your ſelf a fit reprover of others for the breach of his Laws, when you do not obſerve the chiefeſt and moſt beloved of them, your ſelf?

C.

I muſt confeſs, that this man hath more of a Pedant in him, than any one I know, and very magiſterially ſtands over me with Rod in hand. And when he hath laid on as many laſhes as he could, then he takes breath, and ſays, Now Sir, go on with your Leſſon, and pleaſe you eeP. 123.— And ſo I will; a great deal further than he ever expected to hear. And I have ſuch a Leſſo… now for him, as will make him give over the Trade of Schooling, if he have any wit in his head, till he be better learned.

N. C.

Speak out then.

C.

You need not fear it: for I ſtand p. 111in no awe of his correction. I rather pity him, when I think what a taking he will be in; after he finds that Indemnity will do him no more ſervice, than to ſay, In Speech, beware your Br— This you muſt know is the Cuckoe Song, which we hear over and over, till we are tired with it, Indemnity, Indemnity, Indemnity. It is ten times at leaſt repeated in his Preface, and I have not leiſure to tell how many times in the Book. And yet for all this, we m…ſt be ſo civil, as to believe that he is not in love with Tautologies ffP. 230. being not in love with tautologies, I ſhall, &c.. No, by no means. Though his whole Preface be little elſe but his Letter turn'd into an Epiſtle ggAlthough my whole Book be nothing but a Letter to you, yet I ſhall add an Epiſtle, &c., (if you know the difference) a vain repetition of the ſame things, and oft-times in the very ſame words: yet we muſt rather ſuſpect our own blockiſhneſs than his love of Tau…ology to be the reaſon of it. He is no Parrot he would have you know hhThough he tells us very often of the Parrot, N. C. pag. 168, 266, 286., that hath but a few things to prattle, and ſays them often over: He hath the act of Indemnity to talk of, and then the Act of Oblivion; then the Act of Oblivion, and after that the Act of Indemnity; and then Indemnity again, and ſo forward, &c. which calls to mind (I cannot help it) the ſtory p. 112of Scarpaccia (which we find in a certain Italian Hoſpital, not now to be named) who had a conceit that he was King of Cuckoes; and ſo to every one that ſpoke to him good or bad, he would always anſwer with great readineſs, Cuckoe, Cuckoe, Cuckoe. And being demanded why he anſwered not to the purpoſe? he replied again, I am King Cuckoe, Cuckoe, Cuckoe.

N. C.

Methinks you are beſide your Book.

C.

Not at all. Look into his Preface, p. 7. and there he tells you, I have laid the axe to the root of the Act of Indemnity. Turn over a new leaf, and you take him at it again, p. 8. thoſe Pioneers (the two Debates) have been undermining that great wall of defence, viz. the Act of Indemnity. And he hath not done with it yet, I knock, he ſaith, ſ… hard upon the Act of Indemnity, p. 10. Once more, p. 11. I make nothing, he tells you, of the Act of Indemnity; having razed the foundation (as it is in his Book 249) of the Act of Indemnity. He thinks ſure, we have little to do, but are as idle as the boys in the Street, who gather about a Parrot to hear it talk: Otherwiſe he would not have troubled us with ſuch a p. 113Pen-and-Inkhorn Preface, conſiſting of two and forty pages; when he had ſo little new to add.

N. C.

He tells you iiPreface, pag. 1., that he thought letter upon letter might be as neceſſary as precept upon precept, line upon line, twice over, which are the Prophets words, Iſa. 28.10.

C.

He prophanes the Holy Scripture throughout his whole Book, by uſing its words on every common and trivial occaſion. But let him repeat it a thouſand times, till he hath made his own head ake as well as his Readers; I ſhall remain as innocent, and you as guilty as before; only he himſef will appear more boldly Ignorant. For he is like thoſe men who write of Countries they never ſaw, who commonly tell a great many tales. I have great cauſe to be confident that he never read this Act ſeriouſly about which he talks ſo much, but only poured a flood of words with a great noiſe out of his own unfurniſht brains. With theſe he hoped to make his credulous Readers, like thoſe who live near the falls of Nilus, deaf to any other Information, though never ſo certain.

N. C.

You cannot think him ſo bold, as p. 114to charge you with breaking an Act, the matter of which he did not underſtand.

C.

Then he is a diſhoneſt man, if having read it and underſtood it, he would not confeſs the truth, which is this. Within two or three days after his Majeſties return, he deſired the Parliament which then ſate, ſpeedily to diſpatch an Act of Indemnity which he had promiſed. After it had paſſed the Commons, he went to the Peers kkSpeech in Houſe of Peers, July 27. 1660., and expreſſed his impatient deſire to have this Act preſented to him for his Royal aſſent. Accordingly upon Aug. 29. 1660. this Act was paſſed, as an Act of free and General Pardon, Indemnity and Oblivion. And in the Preface to it, theſe two intents and purpoſes of it are expreſſed. Firſt, that no crime committed againſt his Majeſty, or his Royal Father, ſhall hereafter riſe in Judgment, or be brought in Queſtion againſt any one to the leaſt indamagement of them, &c. Secondly, To bury all Seeds of future diſcords, and remembrances of the former. Accordingly the Former part of the Act is for Indemnity, and provides for mens ſafety by acquitting, releaſing and diſcharging all perſons from all crimes (ſave thoſe excepted afterward) p. 115committed from Jan. 1. 1637. till June 24. 1660. And then the other part (which concerns our preſent-buſineſs) is for Oblivion, in theſe words, To the intent and purpoſe, that all Names and terms of diſtinction may be likewiſe put in utter Oblivion, be it enacted, that if any perſon, or perſons, within the ſpace of three years next enſuing, ſhall preſume maliciouſly to call or alledg **The particle Of is to be left out as appears by the Chancellours Speech made afward, where he recites theſe words.of, or object againſt any other perſon or perſons, any name or names, or other words of reproach, any way tending to revive the memory of the late differences, or occaſions thereof, that every ſuch perſon, ſo as aforeſaid offending, ſhall forfeit and pay unto the party grieved, if he be a Gentleman, ten pound, &c. This clauſe the Lord Chancellor at their adjournment, Sept. 13. 1660. commended in his Majeſties Name to their and all mens remembrance. Now mark the Ignorance and the Malice of this Philagathus, as he falſsly ſtiles himſelf: His bold Ignorance, in that he would have the world believe I have violated, nay, horribly violated llPag. 7. of the Preface.this Law as it is an Act of Indemnity (for in that ſtile he ſpeaks) when I have not ſo much a… a power to puniſh any man, though he were not acquitted and diſcharged. p. 116His malice, in perſwading you, that it is the drift of my Book to provoke the Magiſtrates to break it in pieces in their anger, as Moſes did the Tables of Stone mmIb. p. 6.: when it hath no deſign in thoſe paſſages which have ſo netled him, but either to ſhew, that they act not according to their declared Principles in times paſt, or that they have not ſo behaved themſelves as to deſerve the name of the only or moſt knowing and godly people, which they commonly aſſume to themſelves: In which I will ſhew you by and by, how they break this, as well as other of his Majeſties Laws. But firſt let us mark again, how raſhly and impudently he charges me with the breach of this Law, as it is an Act of Oblivion, (which muſt be diſtinguiſhed from the other, though they He confuſed, as all things elſe, in his head:) and how he manifeſtly diſcovers he never read it, or with no care to underſtand it. The Act ſaith, we ſhall not object againſt any perſon, any name or names, or other words of reproach under ſuch a penalty. But this man ſaith with a bold face, it is expreſsly provided in the Act of Indemnity, that the crimes therein mentioned as forgiven, p. 117ſhould no more be objected to any man under a certain penalty, p. 249. The ſame he ſaith in another place nnPag. 88., without any ſtick; and that thoſe old things muſt never more, according to that Act, be ſo much as rehearſed ooP. 142.; which is leſs then objected. And more then this, he affirms, that we may not ſo much as ſpeak of any Ordinance of Parliament which was formerly made ppP. 254.; and therefore, like a man of an exceeding nice and tender Conſcience, he dares not ſo much as ſeem to know, or remember, that ever there were any ſuch Ordinances qqTheſe are his very words.as I mention. A ſpecial way to Anſwer me, by ſaying nay, by knowing juſt Nothing. But judg now of the modeſty and ſincerity of this man, who makes bold (as he ſpeaks) to take me to task for the breach of a Law, whoſe words he never recites, nay always puts other words of his own making in the room of them. And judg of his diſcretion and underſtanding, Who can let it enter into his thoughts, that the Law prohibits us ſo much as to remember what was done in the late Times? Suppoſe we hear them call us ſhortly, the old and the implacable Enemy, muſt we not ſo much as ſeem to call to mind that this p. 118was the ſtile of thoſe days? If they begin to talk of the Holy cauſe, and the Good old cauſe, muſt we, according to this new Doctor, ſeal up our lips, and make as if we never heard of ſuch a thing before? What? may we not ſo much as write a true Hiſtory of what is paſt? This is the thing, no doubt, they would be at. We muſt forget, as I told you at our laſt meeting rrContin. of the Debate, p. 66.; all that is paſt, and now believe you cannot err, nay, were always innocent. This will be a fine way to keep poſterity in Ignorance, that you may do the like again, and never be ſuſpected, till it be too late to prevent it. A moſt admirable contrivance (for which he will be well rewarded, if he can make it good) to turn us into mere fools, by diſpoſſeſſing …s of our Reaſon, together with our Paſſions. Then you may do what you will with us, and the Nation ſhall deſerve to be your ſlaves, if after they have been robbed of ſo many pretious things, they ſuffer you to deſpoil them of their Memories, and deprive them of the benefit of their dear bought experience. But be ſerious, I beſeech you: if all that hath been done, writ, or ſpoken, muſt be buried in perpetual Oblivion, p. 119How durſt the Kings Prime Phyſician ssDr Bates his Elench. Motuum nuperorum in Anglia.Dedicate and preſent to his Majeſty himſelf (and that not long after this Act was paſt, and yet freſh in memory) an Account, and ſmart Reproof of the late Commotions in England? In which he lays open the baſe Arts, the Fraud, Cruelty, Hypocriſie, breach of Faith, Ambition, Covetouſueſs and Pride, which were then ſo rife among you. Why was this Book licenſed by one of the Secretaries of State ttSir Will. Morice, April 6. 1663.? And why did not this buſie Philagathus, who dedicated part of a Book to that Phyſician, with ſome others uuPhyſical Contempl. on Fire, &c. 1667.; twitch him a little, and whiſper this in his ear; Good Sir, Parden me I beſeech you, you are my great Friend, but you have horribly violated the Act of Indemnity? Why did he not in his great zeal, at leaſt, inform him of this, that he had wronged that great Saint in the Army, whom here he ſo much commends xxP. 152. of Sober Anſwer., but the Doctor ſaith, was a wily man yyElench. pars prima, p. 76., attent to his own private profit, and betraying the Presbyterians to ſerve himſelf?

N. C.

Pray let ſuch things paſs without further Reflection.

C.

I would not ſo much as have mention'd this, if it had not been to ſhew p. 120either how Ignorant this man is, who knows none of theſe matters, and yet will be a Writer of Books; or how full of hypocriſie, who pretends his Spirit was ſo moved, that he could not but buffet me for the wrongs I have done them, and yet can flatter another who hath dealt more ſeverely with them.

N. C.

Shew your ſelf merciful too, and ſay no more of this to him.

C.

The greateſt kindneſs I can do him, is to ſhew him, if it be poſſible, that he is not the man he takes himſelf for. If he will not be convinced; yet do you bluſh to think, that any one among you ſhould write thus idly, while others ſpeak and act ſuch things as will call what is paſt to our mind, (unleſs you knock out our brains) whether we will or no. We muſt think a Spade to be a Spade; and, if need be, call it ſo. The things ſtand upon record in the Books as yet unburnt, which you would have us forget. Many of thoſe, out of which I quoted ſome paſſages, are ſtill in your houſes. Why ſhould we blot the images of things out of our memories, which are ſtampt in Paper not yet blotted, nor …orn in pieces? or, Why ſhould we ſorbear to mention, that p. 121which you do not forbear to read? When Queen Elizabeth put out her Injunction, that her Subjects ſhould not call one another Hereticks or Schiſmaticks, it was not ſufficient for a guilty man to ſay to him that convinced him of Schiſm, and called him Schiſmatick, you regard not her Majeſties pleaſure, you make nothing of her commands: No, when ſome troubleſome perſons pleaded this, I find the Anſwer was zzSu…cliffs Anſwer to a certain Libel, Supplic. 1592. p. 131., that the Queens Injunctions did not protect factious Mates, but good and quiet Subjects, ſuch as you will not ſhew your ſelves to be. That's my Anſwer now; keep the Laws, and, by my conſent, you ſhall never hear of your breaking them heretofore. Be more humble and modeſt, and we will never remember you of your Pride. Do not talk as if you were infallible, and knew all Gods Secrets, and we will not tell the people how you have abuſed them—

N.C.

Not talk any more, I hope, of the Act of Indemnity.

C.

Stay a while. I have not ſaid all my leſſon; but the hardeſt part is ſtill to come. For ſuppoſe, my good Neighbour, that the words of the Act had been as he affirms, that we muſt not mention p. 122any crime, or any thing that was ever done; which you ſee is not true. To what purpoſe doth he tell me of it, unleſs he firſt prove that it is but three years ſince, June 24. 1660? If he can do this, he will be as great a man as he thinks himſelf: otherwiſe, he is an impudent reviler, in proclaiming me ſo often, and ſo lowdly, a moſt high and grievous offender againſt a Law which is out of date; and which, if it were in force, I had no way broke. And yet, now that I bethink my ſelf, he muſt prove that it will never be more than three years ſince 1660. otherwiſe, he is a ſhameleſs Lyar, in ſaying the Act requires, that their crimes ſhould be no more objected, and never more rehearſed, as you have heard. And after he hath overcome this difficulty (as he hath a ſtrange faculty in ſtretching) there is another ſtill to conquer; and that is to prove, that I wrote Maliciouſly; elſe the former Herculean labour will do him no ſervice. For if I wrote not to ſatisfie any paſſion, much leſs revenge; nor to do any man any miſchief, (as I proteſt I did not) but only to prevent ſuch calamities as we have already ſuffered, to benefit poſterity, to reform p. 123thoſe who are ſtill top full of the old ill humors, to humble thoſe that break the Laws, and to undeceiue the ſimple; then it was alway lawful, even during thoſe three years, to remember you of what was paſt, and now it is become neceſſary. To conclude this, there is another labour to be undergone after all theſe (though they are enough, one would think, to make his heart ake) and that is to contradict himſelf, who is ſo far from accuſing me of Malice, that he is perſwaded I was rather carried about by others more cholerick, than by my ſelf with ſo rapid a motion aaPreface, p. 39., as he thinks I have been. And more than that, he reſolves by the help of God, not to judge me at all bbP. 276.; for which there is very good reaſon, if you mark what follows in theſe words; yea, I think I have judged you as little as any man under my Circumſtances, if at all. Since he knows ſo little of himſelf, yea, of his own Book, that he cannot tell certainly whether he hath done a thing or no, he ought not to think, that he knows much or others, and to be very careful how he judges. And if he will hold that good reſolution, or ſtand to what he hath confeſſed, then he hath thrown p. 124all his words againſt me into the wind; which come flying back into his own face, charging him if not with ſpight, yet with ignorance, headineſs, and unexcuſable Folly.

N.C.

But you may for all this have offended againſt the intention of the Act, for his Majeſty declared that he deſired all names and terms of diſtinction ſhould be put into utter Oblivion.

C.

It is well obſerved. All names and terms of diſtinction, but he doth not ſay all things that were done ſhould never be called to mind; eſpecially when you revive the memory of them in ſpight of our hearts. But I can tell you more, if it will do you any good, His Majeſty deſired there might no note of diſtinction remain; and it was his end in forbidding us for three years to call men by any name, or names or other words of reproach, that all Differences might be forgotten. But you would needs keep up notes of diſtinction and ſo ſtill continued our Differences.

N. C.

Pray be more moderate in your aſſertions.

p. 125C.

I cannot abate a word of what I ſay. For his Majeſty told you in another place, what would be the beſt way to make us one, and the beſt inſtance you could give of declining all mark… of diſtinction (i.e. an effectual means of putting former things into Oblivion, which you are now ſo deſirous of) and he intreated you alſo to make uſe of it; but you would not comply with his deſires, and by that means kept alive our difference.

N. C.

I remember no ſuch thing.

C.

Be not angry with thoſe that do. I remember very well, that in his declaration ccPag. 14.concerning Eccleſiaſtical Affairs he heartily wiſhed and deſired, that becauſe of diſlike to ſome clauſes and expreſſions in the Common Prayer, you would not totally lay aſide the uſe of it, but read that part againſt which there could be no exception: which would be (mark his words) the beſt inſtance of declining thoſe marks of diſtinction which we ſo much labour and deſire to remove: now how many do you think there were, who took this healing courſe, though they make ſuch a ſtir now about the burying of Differences? Were you not mighty careful to take away marks p. 126of diſtinction, when that very thing, which, in his Majeſties judgment, would be ſo apt to remove them, was ſo little regarded? And how did you indeavour then to take away all remembrances of things paſt i. e. to fulfil the intent of the Act of Oblivion, when you would not remove this great note of diſtinction, which had been made? And yet I find ddPetition for peace, &c.not long after this, that ſome of you deſired the Biſhops to lay by all former and preſent exaſperations and alienating differences; as if they were bound to comply with the end of the Law, but not you your ſelves. But I have not done with you yet.

N. C.

I wiſh you had; for here's enough.

C.

No. I will quite ſtop his mouth, if I can. The Chancellour by the Kings command told us eeSpeech at the Adjournment of the Par. 13. Sept. 1660. p. 15.what kind of names and terms of diſtinction were to be put into Oblivion, and deſired that no body would find new names and terms to keep up the ſame or a worſe diſtinction. If the old reproaches, ſaith he, of Cavalier, and Round-head and Malignant are committed to the Grave; let us not find more ſignificant and better words, to ſignifie worſe things. How well you have p. 127obſerved this exhortation we all know, who call your ſelves the Godly, the People of God, the Saints, the Chriſtians; as if we were the wicked, the enemies of Gods people and no better than Pagans. Theſe are marks of diſtinction with a witneſs, againſt which his Majeſty there gave you, by him, a particular caution. And I can mention many other affected cogniſances and differences, to uſe my L. Bacons words, whereby you ſeek to correſpond among your ſelves and to differ from others, which is directly contrary to the deſign of that clauſe in the Act of Oblivion.

N.C.

Pray forget them for once, if it be but to avoid tediouſneſs.

C.

Obſerve then only this, which will ſhew you the impertinence of your prating Philag. that he reflects very ſharply in that ſpeech upon ſome things paſt and gone, and tells them that there were ſtill certain perſons who infuſed jealouſies into the peoples hearts, and ſtudied to alienate their affections, by talking of introducing Popery, and of evil Councellors, and ſuch other old Calumnies: which it ſeems by this, it was lawful to put them in mind of, even within a few days after theſe crimes were pardoned. p. 128He expreſly recites alſo, ſome of the uſual talk ffSpeech at their diſſolution Dec. 29. 1660. p. 19.in the late times whereby the people were deceived (as that God would never reſtore a Family with which he had ſuch a Controverſie, &c.) and remembers them how the Church had been buried many years by the boyſterous hands of prophane and Sacrilegious Perſons under its own rubbiſh ggIb. p. 20.: and that a deep deluge of ſacriledge, prophaneſs, and impiety had covered it and to common underſtanding ſwallowed it up, though now it appeared again above the waters hhIb p. 21.. And the next year at the opening of the new Parliament iiMay 8. 1661., he lets them know that ſome, inſtead of repenting any thing they had done, repeated the ſame crimes; particularly, ſome ſeditious Preachers reproached the Laws eſtabliſhed, repeated the very expreſſions, and taught the very Doctrines, they ſet on foot 1640. Now what ſaies your Graculo to all this? what a pitty is it, that he was not ſent for to adviſe withal when he pen'd this ſpeech? He would have told him when he came to theſe words. Hold my Lord; Not a word of what hath been done ſince 1637. You muſt not repeat the Doctrines or expreſſions then in uſe, though others p. 129do. It is againſt the Act of Indemnity, which you violated too much the laſt year. For we muſt not ſo much as ſeem to know, or remember that any ſuch things ever were, as Sacriledge, prophaneſſe, impiety and rapine kkThat's alſo mention'd in his ſpeech.. Theſe old things muſt never more be rehearſed.

Thus this man hath in effect tutor'd and ſchool'd him, and by conſequence his Majeſty himſelf; who by his mouth, as he would perſwade us, hath ſpoken againſt his own gratious Act of Indemnity. But will you pleaſe to hear what the King himſelf ſpoke in perſon at that time llSpeech at the opening of the Part. P. 5.; for it is very conſiderable. After he had told them how much the Act of Indemnity ſecured the happineſs of the Nation, he deſired them in Gods name notwithſtanding to provide a full remedy for any further miſchief, and to pull up thoſe old principles, which might make new offenders, by the very roots. It ſeems then they are not to be forgotten, though they be pardon'd. We may think that it is poſſible; they only ye hid and do not appear, but are not …et extirpated out of mens hearts. And herefore it is lawful to go about that …ork; which cannot be done unleſs we …ſt diſcover them, and then ſhew the p. 130rottenneſs of them, and let the people ſee how much they have been cheated by them. I could add a great deal more out of other Papers, but I think it time to make an end; having ſufficiently ſhewn that all that this man and his pertakers talk about theſe matters, is only ſmoak and vapour, which will not abide the touch; and that they deal with the Act of Oblivion as they do with the Divine Writings. If they get a word by the end; they make a great noiſe and cannot tell when to have done with it, never minding the ſenſe. At they cry Free grace, and the Covenant … grace, the Covenant of Grace, ſo they cry the Act of Oblivion, the Act of Oblivion. But look into either of them, and conſider them well, and you will find they are no ſuch thing, as th… which they mean by them.

N. C.

Let the world judg between you: For I will meddle no further i… this matter.

C.

It is the greateſt favour I would deſire of you all, that you would i… down calmly, and after both ſides heard, indifferently judg between us. You would ſoon ſee, I make no doubt, that his Book, and not that which p. 131mmAs he pretends p. 26 of the preface.he writes againſt, is a fiery invective. But the miſchief of it is, that many of you will never read what we write. You will only hear of one ear, and believe what a man of your party ſaies, and then all', your own. For which Partiality if you judg not your ſelves, God will. Among thoſe alſo who will read our writings, there are ſo few I doubt that conſider, or that are able to make a tryal and diſcern when a cauſe is well maintain'd, and when not (as Mr. Baxter nnPreface to his Confeſſion of Faith.ſpeaks) that he who will confidently pour out words, how far ſoever he digreſs from the Truth or mark, is as ſoon believed as he that gives the ſoundeſt reaſon. But then let ſuch a man pretend zeal for Religion, (which is the cauſe of all this ſtir) let him bawl and cry aloud and ſay his Adverſary is an enemy to it, or hath laid a train to blow it up; and that He is come forth with great hazard to himſelf to prevent that miſchief, and ſhall be a Martyr if he dye in the quarrel ooAs that man tells us p. 26 of the pref.. He will be ſure to be admired and held in great Veneration by the Ignorant people. When he hath once fill'd their ears with the ſound of theſe things, his work is done to purpoſe; and it will be hard to get a word p. 132we have to ſay, to enter into them. Eſpecially, if the man, who hath ingaged the affections of unwary Souls in this manner, joyn a ſhew of Mortification, contempt of the World, diſlike and hatred of all ſin, together with his zeal for the cauſe of God and Godlineſs. When they ſee men go ſimply in the Streets (ſaith the Biſhop ppSpeech at Liſnegarvy., I named the laſt time) and bow down their heads like a Bulruſh, wringing their necks awry, ſhaking their heads, as though they were in ſome preſent grief, &c. when they hear them give great groans, and cry out againſt this and that ſin, (not in their own hearers, but in others, eſpecially their Superiours) and finally make long Prayers: when, I ſay, the multitude hear and ſee ſuch kind of men, they are by and by carried away with a marvellous great conceit and opinion of them: And with ſuch ſhews have many Pharaſaical Teachers drawn the multitude after them, who have not their ſenſes exerciſed to diſcern between good and evil; but judg only by the outward appearance.

N. C.

God ſend you and me a right judgment in all things.

C.

We muſt not only pray, but labour for it; by ſubduing our Paſſions, p. 133and laying aſide all Prejudices, ſo that we may with indifferent and equal minds conſider and try all things; and be inclined by nothing but truth.

N. C.

It is a hard matter to keep our ſelves from being byaſſed by ſomething or other. And the goodneſs of any man is apt, I confeſs, not only to draw and incline my affections to him, but to make me of his belief.

C.

Are there no good men, think you, who want judgment, and are of a weak underſtanding? Muſt you believe all they ſay, becauſe you know they will not deceive you? They may be deceived themſelves. They may be ignorant; and then be tranſported by their zeal, as this man is, to talk of things they underſtand not.

N. C.

I will not eaſily believe him without ſtrict examination, whatſoever credit I give to others.

C.

You had need be the more careful, becauſe the confidence which ſome men uſe, may make you too much preſume of their knowledg: As I doubt this mans boldneſs in his Aſſertions, and in his Rebukes, will deceive many. He beſeeches me, for inſtance, with no ſmall ſcorn, to reconcile two paſſages p. 134in my firſt Book, which he ſaith, are as oppoſite one to the other as the Eaſt and Weſt, or (to make a greater ſound) the Artick and Antartick Poles qqP. 274.: both which, you muſt think, he hath ſeen as he paſt through all the Signs of the Zodiack of their Sufferings. One is in p. 95. where I ſay, that according to the Covenant, you ought to have ſome Form of Divine Service; becauſe you bound your ſelves to reform according to the beſt reformed Churches. The other is pag. 223. where it is affirm'd, that you took Scotland for the beſt reformed Church, and therefore they muſt be the pattern. Now I pray Sir, ſaith Philag. What Liturgy had they wont to uſe in Scotland? or, When was the Church of Scotland for the uſe of a Liturgy? If they were always againſt and without a Form of Divine Service (by their good will) how are men bound by the Covenant to uſe a form of Divine Service every time they meet, by being bound to reform according to their pattern? And he concludes with a piece of Latine imprting that a Lyar ought to have a good memory.

N. C.

That might have been ſpared: But I think he hath charged you ſhrewdly.

C.

I think the ſtroke will return p. 135with a vengeance upon himſelf: and he will find he hath wounded his own credit and not mine. But, I confeſs, the reading of this made me ſigh to think, that the Nation ſhould be thus abuſed by every forward and daring man, who hath ſo good an opinion of himſelf, as to write Books, and become a publick Inſtructer of others. If wiſe men will not take care to remedy it, they muſt be content to ſee themſelves as well as us over-run with folly. And what remedy is there, but that no man be the judg of his own Abilities, but every work paſs the approbation of diſcreet and judicious perſons? This was never more neceſſary than now, when thoſe undertake to inform and teach the Nation, who have not ſo much knowledg as the Propheſying Ape, with which Giles of Paſſamonte went about to coſen the Country.

N. C.

What was that?

C.

It had this notable faculty; that it could tell nothing at all of what was to come, but knew ſomething of what was paſt; and a little of things preſent: otherwiſe it would never mount up to Giles his ſhoulder, and chatterin his ear. But this Phil. of yours, frisks, and grins in my face, and grates his teeth apace, p. 136and looks upon me as a ſcurvy lyar: and yet confeſſes himſelf Ignorant of what is paſt; and that, when he mounts up himſelf without any bidding to talk of it. Thus the poor people are coſened: and this man coſens their Conſcience, while ſuch as the other only pick their pockets of twelve pence a piece.

N. C.

Why? What Liturgy were they wont to uſe in Scotland? or, when was the Church of Scotland for the uſe of a Liturgy? Were they not alway without and againſt a Form of Divine Service?

C.

You need not repeat his words. I was going to tell you, that it is endleſs to write to ſuch a Scribler who will ask that Queſtion again which hath been already Anſwered. Did I not tell you in our laſt Dehate rrContinuation of the Friendly Debate, p. 409., that the Scottiſh Form of Prayer was printed here in England in the beginning of the late Wars? But he is not at leiſure to read Books. He is a writer, forſooth; and cannot ſpare ſo much time from this great imployment, as to read the Book he writes againſt. For had it pleaſed him to be at this pains, there he might have heard of the ſtrange thing, which he imagines no body ever ſaw, the Scots Form of Divine Service. But he will think, p. 137perhaps, that I wrote like himſelf, without any care at all; and tranſcribed that paſſage out of my own imagination, and not from the ſight of my eyes. For your better information therefore, you may know, that there being ſome perſons at Frankfort in Queen Maries time, who would admit no other Form of Prayers, but that in the Engliſh Book, Mr. John Knox (a principal Reformer in Scotland afterward) joyned with thoſe who quarrell'd at it. But it appears by the ſtory, that he was not againſt a Form of Divine Service, no, nor againſt all things in the Engliſh Book: But as he had an high eſteem of the Compoſers of it ssWitneſs the Commendation he gives Cranmer, whom he called, that Reverend Father in God. Admonition to the Profeſſors of the Truth in England, An. 1554. p. 51.; ſo he approved in great part of the work it ſelf. A brief deſcription indeed of it being ſent by him, and Whittingham to Mr. Calvin and his opinion of it return'd Jan. 22. 1555. Mr. Knox and four more were ordered to draw forth another order of Divine Service, which was the very ſame with that of Geneva. But part of the Congregation ſtill adhering to the Book of England, after ſome Conference, they compoſed a new Order by the advice of Mr. Knox: ſome of it taken out of the Engliſh Book, and other things p. 138added, as the State of the Church required; and to this all conſented, as we are told in the Diſcourſe of the Troubles of Frankfort ttRepri…ed here, 1642. P. 30, 31.. A little after, Dr. Cox coming thither, anſwered aloud, as the manner is here, which bred a new contention. And, to be ſhort, the Engliſh Book was again eſtabliſhed and continued (though afterward they left off the uſe of the Ceremonies) and Mr. Kn… went to Geneva. There I find he was when Queen Mary dyed, being one of thoſe who ſubſcribed the Letter to the Church at Frankfort uuDecemb. 15. 1558., deſiring that whatſoever offences had been given or taken might be forgotten, and that all might lovingly agree when they met in England. Not long after he went into Scotland, where ſome had begun a Reformation. More particularly it had been concluded by the Lords and Barons, a little after their firſt Covenant xxIn which they, who forſook Popery, ingaged themſelves to each other by a Common Bond., Decemb. 3. 1557. that it was thought expedient, adviſed and ordained, that in all Pariſhes of the Realm, the Common Prayer ſhould be read weekly on Sundays, and other Feſtivals publickly in the Pariſh-Church; with the Leſſons of the Old and New Teſtament, conforming to the ORDER OF THE BOOK OF COMMON p. 139PRAYER. And if the Curates of the Pariſhes be qualified, to cauſe them to read the ſame; if not, or they refuſe, that the moſt qualified in the Pariſh uſe and read it yyHiſtory of the Church of Scotl. aſcribed to Mr. Knox. Book 1. pag. 110.. In this Settlement Mr. Knox found them; and though the Queen diſcharged the Common Prayers, and forbad to give any portions to ſuch as were the principal young men who read them; yet they continued to be read zzIbid. Book 2. pag. 170. an. 1559.. And what was thus began by a few perſons, was afterward compleated by a more Publick Decree. For by a General Aſſembly holden in December, 1562. it was ordained that one Ʋniform Order ſhould be obſerved in the Adminiſtration of the Sacraments, according to the Order of Geneva. That is, as I underſtand it, the very ſame which Mr. Knox and the reſt had uſed when they were there. And two year after Decemb. 1564. It was again ordained, that Miniſters in the Miniſtration of the S…craments ſhould uſe the Order ſet down in the Pſalm Book aaBoth theſe I have out of the Diſputation againſt the Aſſembly at Perth; and they are alledged to prove there ſhould be no kneeling at the Sacrament, becauſe their Old Order did not preſcribe it.; to which now that Form, I ſuppoſe, was annexed. Nor did Mr. Knox think himſelf above theſe Forms, but made uſe of them; as appears from hence, That being deſired before the Council, to moderate himſelf p. 140in his Form of praying for the Queen; he related to them the moſt vehement and moſt exceſſive manner of Prayer that he uſed in Publick, and, after he had repeated the words at length, concluded thus; This is the Form of Common Prayer, as you your ſelves can witneſs bbIb. Book 4 p. 380. an. 1564.. The ſame Hiſtory alſo records a Form of Publick Prayer uſed in the Church of St. Giles in Edenburgh, upon the Peace made with France ccJuly 8. 1560. p. 245.: and a… ther Form ddP. 287.at the Election of Superintendents. He alſo that wrote the Mederate Reply eeAn. 1646.to the City Remonſtran… againſt Toleration, preſents the Remonſtrants in the laſt leaf of his Book, with a Form of Thanksgiving, uſed in the Church of Scotland, for their deliverance from the French by the Engliſh, An. 1575. B…t why do I mention theſe particular Prayers? There was Printed, as I ſaid, 1641. the Service and Diſcipline, and form of Common Prayer, and Adminiſtration of the Sacraments uſed in the Engliſh Church of Geneva, received and approved by the Church of Scotland, and preſented to the High Court of Parliament that year. And though in that there are now and then ſuch paſſages as this, the Miniſter ſhall uſe this Confeſſion, or the like in effect; p. 141yet they are not to be found in the ancient Books. I have been long Owner of a Form of their Divine Service, Printed at Edinburgh, Cum Privilegio Regali, 1594. and bound up with the Pſalm-book, ſpoken of before; and there is no ſuch allowance given in any place of the Book. The Confeſſion is enjoyned in theſe words; Ane Confeſſion that ſall ga befoir the reading of the Law, and befoir every Exerciſe. And if you read the firſt Book of Diſcipline, preſented to the Lords of the Secrct Council of Scotland 20 May. 1560. and by them confirmed ffThough never coafirmed by Act of Parliament. Mr. Knox complaining that ſome in chief Authority called the ſame, Devout Imaginations., you ſhall find they make ſome things utterly neceſſary, and others only profitable for the keeping the Kirk in good Order. Among the firſt ſort are theſe, that the Word be truly preached, the Sacraments rightly adminiſtred, Common-Prayers Publickly made. Theſe things be ſo neceſſary, ſay they, that without the ſame there is no Face of a viſible Kirk. And that they mean the Form of Prayer agreed upon, appears by what follows in the end of that Chapter ggAll this you may fiad in the ninth head, concerning the Policy of the Kirk.; In Private houſes, we think expedient, that the moſt grave and diſcreet perſons uſe the Common Prayers at morn and night, for the comfort and inſtruction of others. p. 142More particularly, when they tren of Diſcipline hhIn the ſeventh head, they adviſe, in caſe any man be excommunicated, his Friend ſhould travel with him to bring him to knowledge of himſelf, and Commandment given to all men to call to God for his Converſion: And that for this purpoſe, a ſolemn and ſpecial Prayer be dra…, for then the thing would be more gra… done: They are their very words. By all which it is apparent what the conſti… tion of their Church in the beginning was, and that later times have ſwerved from the Decrees of their Fore-fathers. So the Doctors and Profeſſors of Aberde… iiIn their Daplia's 1638. pag. 37.(and they no mean men neither) tel thoſe who came to urge the Cove… on them: They, who have ſubſcribed to it, miſregard the Ordinances of our Reformen praefixed to the Pſalm-Book, concerning the Office of Superintendents, or Biſhops, Funeral Sermons, and ſet Forms of Prayer, which they appointed to be publickly read i… the Church. This was a thing ſo well known (though this Bold-face gives me the lye for ſuppoſing it) that Ludovi… Capellus **Theſ. Salmur. pars. 3. p. 658.had reaſon to write theſe words; At the Reformation, the Sacred Liturgie was purged from all Superſtiti…s and Popiſh Idolatry, &c. and ſo there wert p. 143ſeveral Forms of holy Liturgie pure and ſimple, made and preſcribed all about, by the ſeveral Authors of the Reformation; in Germany, France, England, ☞SCOTLAND, the Netherlands, &c. Departing as little as poſſibly they could from the ancient Forms of the Primitive Church, which the reformed Charches have uſed hitherto happily, and with profit, every one within the limits of their own Nation and Territories. Till at laſt there very lately aroſe in England certain moroſe, ſcrupulous, and nice, and delicate, that I ſay not, plainly ſuperſtitious perſons, to whom the Liturgie of their Church hitherto uſed ſeemed fit for many, though moſt ſlight and frivolous cauſes, not only to be diſapproved, but plainly abrogated. Biſhop Hall—

N. C.

Enough, enough. You will be as long and tedious as the Common Prayer.

C.

If that were ſhorter, you would find the greater fault: and if I uſed fewer words, he would keep the greater quoile; He is not one of thoſe whom a word will ſuffice. He will ſtruggle and keep a ſtir even when he is overthrown; and he muſt be oppreſſed with Proofs and Arguments, or elſe he will not ceaſe to quarrel and contend. I ſhall add p. 144therefore the words of Biſhop Hall kkApology againſt the Browniſts, Sect. 37.; who juſtifying a ſtinted Form of Prayer againſt the Separatiſts, ſaith; Behold all Churches that were or are in the World are Partners with us in this Crime. O Idolatrous Geneva, and all French, SCOTTISH, Daniſh, and Dutch Churches! All which both have their Forms with us, and approve them. The ſame you may find in a Divine of your own llMr. Sam. Clark collection of the lives of ten Divines p. 255., who tells us (in the Life of Mr. Capel) That he was clear in his opinion for the lawfulneſs of the uſe of Set Forms of Prayer, according to the Tenent of all our beſt and moſt judicious Divines, and according to the practice of all Churches, even the beſt reformed, ſaith M. Rogers, now, and in all former Ages. So ſaith Mr. Hilderſham: Yea, and Mr. Smith himſelf ſaith, upon the Lord's Prayer (though as then he was warping, and afterwards wandred far in the waies of Separation) that it was the practice of the ancient Church, and of all the Reformed Churches in Chriſtendom, Of the Churches immediately after the Apoſtles; nay, (ſaith he) of the Church in the time of the Apoſtles, as may be probably gathered, out of 1 Cor. 14.26. This p. 145hath alſo been the practice of the beſt Lights that ever were ſet up in the Churches of Chriſt. It is very well known, that the flower of our own Divines went on in this way, when they might have done otherwiſe, if they had pleaſed, in their Prayers before their Sermons. To this Teſtimony (which may ſerve alſo for other purpoſes) I would caſt in more, but that you complain of wearineſs already.

N. C.

I had rather take your word than be troubled with them.

C.

And will you take Mr. Impudence his word againſt all theſe Author ties? What ſay you? Was there never a time when they uſed a Form of Prayer in the Church of Scotland? Were they alway without, nay, againſt a Form when they were left to their own choice? Did their Queen force them to Common Prayers when ſhe forbad the uſe of them? What do you think? Muſt we believe all theſe ſtrong Proofs and ſolid Teſtimonies, or will he rub his forehead, and ſay, like himſelf, believe me before them all? In good time, Sir. Let him play never ſo many tricks; let him frisk about, and tumble up and down, and p. 146endeavour to make you ſport, that you may forget the Queſtion you came about: You will have more wit, I hope, than to let him deceive you any more. Remember; Whiſe the Ape dances on the Rope, that's the time which is taken to cut the Purſes of the Spectators. But I think he may put all that he hath gain'd by his chattering and skipping about in his eye, and ſee never the worſe. Or rather, he hath brought an old houſe, as we ſay, over his own, and others, head. For by flying to this refuge, which proves a refuge of lies, he confeſſes the force of my Argument that they break their Covenant, when they meet without a Form of Prayer; ſeeing the beſt Reformed Churches have uſed a Form, even, that of Scotland not excepted, after whoſe Pattern, I will prove, if you pleaſe, more fully, that they engaged to Reform.

N. C.

We have no leiſure now for ſuch diſcourſes.

C.

Then Ile let it alone, and proceed to give you another proof of his Ignorance of things paſt, though he have … half the modeſty of Giles his Ape. E… you look into p. 243 of his Book, be… ſaith, the N.C. will make bold to tell us (be p. 147ſhould have ſpoken only for himſelf, who we know is bold enough) that we uſe them more haraly than ever our ſelves were uſed: For though ſome of you, ſaith he, were ſequeſtred, yet none of you were ſilenced, or commanded not to preach, or moleſted meerly for Preaching, as ſuch. One would think this man ſhould have good aſſurance for what he affirms thus bodly (to uſe his own language) and yet the direct contrary is upon Record, and to be ſeen in Print. For by a Declaration of 24. Nov. 1655 The late Protector required, not only that no perſon who had been ſequeſtred for Delinquency, or been in Arms againſt the Parliament, or adhered unto, or abetted or aſſiſted the Forces raiſed againſt them, ſhould keep in their Houſe or Family, as Chaplain, or Schoolmaſter any Sequeſtred or Ejected Miniſter, Fellow of a Colledge, or Schoolmaſter; nor, which is more, permit any of their Children to be taught by ſuch, &c. But that n… perſon, who for Delinquency or Scandal had been ſequ…ſtred or ejected, ſhould, from and after the firſt of January next enſuing, preach in any publick place, or at any private meeting of any other perſons than thoſe of his own Family. Nor ſhould baptize or adminiſter the Lord's p. 148Supper, or Marry, or uſe the Book of common-Prayer, or the Forms of Prayer therein contained: upon pain of being proceeded againſt, as by his Orders was provided and directed, for ſecuring the peace of the Common-wealth. This ſeverity moved Doctor Gauden to make a pathetical addreſs mmFebr. 4. following.unto him in the be half of ſo many undone perſons; which was afterward Printed. And at the ſame time the Primate of Ireland came to Town on purpoſe, and went in perſon to him to intercede for his indulgence towards them. He took alſo the ſorteſt opportunities of mediating for them, for the ſpace of five or ſix weeks together; But was fain at laſt to retreat to his Country retirement (and ſo to his grave) with li…t'e ſucceſs and leſs hope, to his great grief and ſorrow: Uſing this expreſſion to Doctor Gauden nnPoſtſcript to his Petitionary Remonſtrance., that he ſaw ſome men had only guts, and no bowels ooInteſtina, non vi…cera..

N. C.

More words are needleſs in ſo plain a buſineſs.

C.

I think ſo too. No two things can be more oppo…ite than his Declaration and the Protectors. For the one requires them not to preach, and the other ſaies they were not forbidden to preach. But p. 149this is his uſual preſumption: He thinks no body knows that which he doth not know; though alas! he falls ſo ſhort of that Propheſying Ape, that he is ignorant even of things preſent, which yet he makes bold to prattle of. He would have the world believe, that there is but one N. C. who hath found ſome favour upon the account of his great moderation and peaceableneſs. And who ſhould that be think you? Hear his own words and you will give a ſhrowd gueſs ppP. 225.There is one, and there is not a ſecond, (as I know in England) who hath been taken into ſome conſideration for the greatneſs of his Moderation and known Peaceableneſs of ſpirit, &c. I ſay, there is one (but he ſhall be nameleſs) that hath found ſome favour upon that account, &c. I ſay that one, for ought I know, is the only inſtance in England, whoſe Moderation in conjunction with what elſe might be thought to deſerve ſome abatement of rigor, hath procured him ſo much favour as will find him bread. By theſe words I ſay, as I know, for ought I know; I ſuppoſe, you cannot but know the Gentleman. And if he do not know a thing, who ſhould? you, may be, believe it upon his word, there is never another who hath been connived at but this very p. 150deſerving perſon. And if he tell you on the other ſide, that Conformiſts were only ſhewn a great Rod heretofore (which he ſpeaks of) but not one of them, that I do know, ever whipt with it qqThey are his words, pag. 256., what would you deſire more to perſwade you of the preſent rigor in compare with the lenity (who would think it) that was uſed in thoſe gracious days? Philagathus knows it not; this is ſufficient, and you ought not to enquire further. Though ſome of us indeed who know little, muſt needs be ſo bold (by the leave of his Omniſcience) as to ſay that we are acquainted with many who felt the ſmart of that Rod. And I, for my part, who am very Ignorant, I confeſs, in a great many things, know more than one or two that have enjoyed the ſame indulgence with this rare perſon, whom he ſpeaks of. And when he tells us his name, he ſhall know theirs, if he deſire it.

N. C.

I cannot tell what to ſay to theſe things. I wiſh he would talk leſs of his own knowledg.

C.

But you know what to do, unleſs you ſtill think he knows all that he talks of. And that is, not to believe him, when he tells you of hundreds of p. 151Families, nay, the Families of many hundreds rrP. 236, of ſo many hundreds ssP. 234.of Miniſters, that have hardly meat to fill their bellies, or clothes to cover their nakedneſs. You would think by his repeating it ſo often, that he had counted them; but we have reaſon to think he ſpoke at random. You muſt firſt Admit ttP. 233.one ſuppoſal, and then he will make another; and tell you it may well be ſuppoſed there were 1500, &c. who, as it is probable, having moſt of them families, have little or no temporal eſtate; and then he can roundly ſet down hundreds, many hundreds. A wonderful diſcovery, and a ready way to make thouſands as eaſie as hundreds at pleaſure. Much like that of the complainers in John Lilburn's caſe, who talkt of a hundred diſcoveries that might be made of the peoples miſeries. And the reply which one uuDeclaration of ſome proceedings of Joh. Lilb. 1648. pag. 60.made to them may ſerve him. Indeed it is true: they may be made with eaſe. It is but to ſit down and write an hundred particulars, what come uppermoſt, (or to make ſuppoſals as you think good) taking no care whether they be true or no; and then there will be an hundred ſuch diſcoveries made.

N. C.

He did not make ſuppoſals ſure without reaſon.

p. 152C.

Yes. And will ſhew you anon there is reaſon againſt them. But for the preſent, we will let that paſs, and ſee if he can give us better Information in greater matters. Theſe are all trifles, you may think, which he doth not mind: But the Covenant — that's a thing he hath ſtudied without all doubt, and knows the bottom of the buſineſs.

N C.

Or elſe he is skilled in nothing.

C.

And yet how unfit he is to be your Advocate in that cauſe, appears by the lame account which he gives us of many things belonging to it. Look into his Book, p. 259. and there you will find, as if he meant to debate the buſineſs thoroughly, and had ſome weighty matter to impart, He begins with an O ye, ſaying, Good Sir, hear how fair the Conceſſions of the N. C. are, and then judg whether there be not a juſt ground and foundation for peace and amity betwixt you and them. Well, I liſſen Sir, What have you to ſay? Why? Firſt of all, he tells us, the N. C. do hold, that the Covenant binds them to nothing that is ſinful. A marvelous great condeſcenſion: like that p. 153, where he tells us, the N. C. p. 153are in charity with all the Saints. They are much obliged to you for your great humility and courteſie. It is a ſingular favour, that you will be pleaſed to be in charity with them: and his Majeſty is much beholden to you, that you will not think your ſelves bound to ſin. But his Friends would have taught him to have granted more (only he knows little, as I told you, of what hath been ſaid or done) and bid him add, that it doth not bind them to go beyond their place and calling to do good xxPropoſ. to his Majeſty, p. 12.. And ſo much for that. Let's prick up our ears now, and hear what he tells us in the ſecond place; for he gapes as if he would hold forth ſome notable point. Nay Sir, ſaith he, the N. C. or many of them (for he dare not be confident of all) do think, that if an Oath contain never ſo many good and neceſſary things, and but one that is bad and ſinful, that one ſinful thing is not to be done for the ſake of all the good yyP. 260.. Mark how timorouſly the Gentleman walks up on the Ice (which he hath done before now zzThey are his words, p. 257.) and what great care he takes that he catch not a fall. He will not paſs his word for all the N. C. There are, you may be ſure, many of them, he cannot tell how many, who have arrived to ſuch p. 154a degree of honeſty, that they will no do a ſinful thing together with many good things. But ſome it ſeems, be fears, are of another opinion, and think they may do a ſinful thing for the ſake of a great many good. Theſe are brave lads: And I doubt not, whoſoever they are, but they will find a great many good things to bring to paſs, when they have a mind to make another Rebellion. But this is not all; he deſires we ſhould underſtand in the third place, that the N. C. or ſome of them do yield this, that they are not bound by an Oath or Covenant to that which is impoſſible to be done aaIb.. Doth he not advance very much in his Conceſſions? and come nearer and nearer to us? When ſome of them (for any thing he knows, I muſt in charity put in, for his relief) think they are bound to do even impoſſible things. Nay, many of them may be of that mind, for he dares not venture ſo far as he did before. It is not the N. C. or many of them, but only the N. C. or ſome of them think they are not bound, if the matter of the Oath be ſomething that is impoſſible. Then, as I ſaid, ſome, nay many he gives us leave to think may be of the contrary perſwaſion. And what p. 155deſperate people are thoſe? What will not they attempt, who are not deterr'd by the apprehenſion of impoſſibilities in their way? Wo be to us, when theſe men are angry. But Laſtly, the good Gentleman was in ſuch a terrible taking when he was writing of this matter, or elſe ſo loath to come near us; that he dare not ſo much as ſay roundly, that the N. C. hold a Father, Husband, Maſter, or Prince, may make void either the Oaths or Vows made by their Children, Wives, Servants, or Subjects without their conſent, in things that are ſubject to their Authority. No, pardon him there, he dare not go ſo farr, he only ſays, in a confuſed manner, that the N. C. or ſome of them are of this bbP. 261.opinion. He ſeems here to be a little ſenſible of his Ignorance, and ſo durſt not ſpeak with ſo much confidence as he doth when he hath leſs reaſon. For if he had but read a Book **Ames Caſes of Conſc. Book 4. Q. 11. Reſp. 2.that uſed very early to be put into the bands of young Scholars, he would have found this Caſe determined very reſolutely in thoſe very words which I now uſed: and then I perſwade my ſelf he would have concluded all the N. C. to be of that mind. But he reſolved to be very wiſe and p. 156cautious; though he ſpoil'd all by that means. He dare go no further in the beginning of his Diſcourſe about this matter ccP. 258., than to tell us, that ſome who cannot renounce the Covenant, are heartily ſorry that ever the taking of that Covenant was preſſed upon any body, becauſe the multiplying of Oaths of that nature, doth uſually end in the multiplying of Perjuries through mens breach thereof. He gives us leave to think then, according to his opinion, that moſt are not ſorry, or not heartily ſorry, but would make no great matter of doing the ſame again. What though Perjuries follow? It is but keeping a Day of Humiliation, and bewailing all the raſh Oaths and Perjuries, and then they for their part are very innocent, and waſht as white as the Snow in Salmon, as he ſaith they are by the Act of Oblivion ddPref. p. 32.. But wo be to the poor Cavaliers, who could not compound for their Eſtates unleſs they took the Vow and Covenant; as ſome made bold to tell his Majeſty in their Propoſals (which were ſince the Act of Indemnity, and therefore I may ſpeak of them) Not preſuming, ſay they, to meddle with the Conſciences of thoſe p. 157many of the Nobility and Gentry, and others that adhered to his late Majeſty, in the late unhappy Warrs, who at their Compoſitions took the Vow and Covenant; we only crave your Majeſties clemency to our ſelves and others, who believe themſelves to be under its Obligation. A greater preſumption than that which they would avoid; to remind his Majeſty how barbarouſly his Friends had been uſed (their Conſciences being ſqueezed and oppreſſed; as well as their Bodies and Eſtates) even then when they were pleading for his favour. But my buſineſs is only with him. And what do you think of your Champion? Hath he not done you rare ſervice in declaring your Opinion about Oaths and Covenants? Will he not make an excellent Caſuiſt, and be fit to be put in the Chair to read Lectures for the ſatisfying of Conſcience? Let not the Schools looſe ſuch a precious Engine as this. It is a thouſand pities that he ſhould be confined to the Trade of making Sawces, of giving reliſhes, and trimming out Diſhes: (or if you will have them ſo called, Diſcourſes) He can unty your knots, and tell where the Hinge of the Controverſie turns eePreface, p. 40. I have given you Cardo Controverſiae between the C and N. C., (and that in Latine too) p. 158and furniſh you with ſo many Diſſes, Diffs, and Div's, as ſhall give great content, and make the feirceſt Diſputers preſently ſhake hands. For you ſee in four words, he hath laid a Foundation of Peace and Amity between the C. and N. C. though he be not yet come ſo far as to determine poſitively whether between all, or many or only ſome. That you muſt think is reſerved for another Lecture. And yet I perceive there are ſome teſty people, who think he hath done no more to make an accord among us, by his ſolemn handling this caſe of Conſcience; than Norandino of Savignano ffWhom we find in the Hoſpital of Incurable, &c. 1600. p. 54.did to the compoſing of a Controverſie in Italy.

N. C.

If he were long about it, pray let's not hear it.

C.

No, he had done preſently. For there being a great Diſputation held in the City of Ceſena, this Lubber paſſing by chance through the place where all the Diſputants were met together, cry'd with a loud voyce make room (which immediately he made for himſelf with a good Quarter-ſtaff) and give ear to me. I hold this Concluſion, that Savignano is not diſtant from Ceſena above ten miles. And next I maintain p. 159this other, that Savignano is of the Maſculine Gender, and Ceſona of the Faeminine. And I'le alſo ſtand to this, That more people will give ear to me who am but a fool, than to you who would appear to be wiſe. And laſt of all—

N. C.

Hold you there. He will ſpoil all again, I much doubt, after he hath ſpoken ſo wiſe a word.

C.

It is well noted: and therein the moſt are fully agreed. But ſetting aſide the Quarter-ſtaff, which is a notable weapon, to put an end to a Diſputation, I think Norandino, and your Phil. have much alike abilities for compoſing Differences. Only the Italian had more confidence, and ſpoke poſitively: but the Engliſh-man (contrary to his wont) ſpoke with greater diffidence and diſtruſt of himſelf; which may be an argument of a little more wiſdom.

N. C.

I have ſeen indeed this Sentence cited out of Thucydides, That Ignorance makes men bold, and Knowledg makes them timorous.

C.

There is a great deal of truth in it. But for all that, the Bold fellows carry the day: for they are thought very knowing; and thoſe that dare not talk confidently of all things, the vulgar account p. 160very ignorant. So that, whether out of Ignorance, or much Policy and Knowledg of the Peoples humour, you may determine; your Knight hath taken the right courſe; who very often ſets a good face, as we ſay, upon the matter, and ſpeaks with great aſſurance, right or wrong: And in this, I think, no man hath a faculty beyond him.

N. C.

Good now let's have no more of this; for I was tired long ago with it.

C.

Pray ſtretch your Patience a little farther: I will not exerciſe it too much. Do you not think, by his Diſcourſe, that he is very well acquainted with me?

N. C.

I ſhould think moſt inwardly.

C.

So would any body elſe. For he can tell you my private opinions, my ſtudies, and what I am able to do as well as if I had taken him into my boſom. Such an Aſs, it ſeems, I am to diſcover and open my heart to a ſtranger: or rather ſuch a ſilly piece of Impudence is he, as to venture to talk by gueſs, and alway to take ſuch bad direction as to gueſs amiſs. He tells you for example, that I am one of thoſe whoſe judgment leads them to have a great reſpect for Scientia media ggP. 219..

p. 161N. C.

What's that?

C.

You may ask him, if you think he can tell you. It is ſufficient for me to let you know that I have ſo little reſpect for it, that I look upon it as an idle invention. So wide a diſtance there is between his knowledg of me, and my knowledg of my ſelf. However, he can tell you greater matters than this, and confident he is, that once I expounded the Scripture according to Mr. Calvin, and now I underſtand them according to Grotius.

N. C.

He only wiſhes that be not your meaning, p. 121.

C.

That's a way he hath of telling you his mind, and conveying the belief of a thing into yours. For he makes no bones afterward hhP. 288.to ſay, that I tell my Hearers, it is a ſingular Priviledg that they have the Goſpel ſo plainly expounded to them, i. e. as Grotius and I expound it, but not as it is expounded by thoſe Divines that conſult Calvin and Beza, and twenty more ſuch worthy Interpreters. He ſhould have taken the courage to make them up ſeven and twenty iiYou ſet H. Grotius (for ought I know) againſt Twenty ſeven men who are not of his mind, p. 11,; which, for ought he knows, is as true as the other. Eſpecially ſince he is ſo hardy as to tell you that I adore Grotius, p. 269. and Idolize p. 162him, p. 279. and truſt to him, and rely upon him, as if he were God himſelf, p. 10, And all this, though I never ſo much as named him, nor have any greater acquaintance with him than with other good Authors, nor ſo much neither; having gain'd ſome conſiderable knowledg, I hope, of the Holy Scriptures, before I adviſed with him, or any that he hath mention'd.

N. C.

Strange! I thought he had been your Oracle.

C.

My God you ſhould have ſaid: And your Philagathus, ſome great Genius who ſtands at my elbow every time I take down a Book: And ſees me throw Mr. Calvin aſide, but making a lowly reverence, and kiſſing his Works when Grotius comes to hand; or rather kneeling down, as if I meant to worſhip, as well as read him.

N. C.

I cannot tell how to excuſe this boldneſs.

C.

Which is ſo great and ſhameleſs, that if he wore a Steel Vizor, it could not be more impudent. He hath a vile ſuſpicion, he tells you, that Grotius his Notes upon the Canticles did me a great deal of harm; which is a marvel, ſeeing I never read them in all my life.

p. 163N. C.

How? not read them?

C.

It is as I tell you, upon my honeſt word.

N. C.

And yet he is not content to mention it once, but repeats it againkkP. 122, 195.

C.

And would put a jealouſie into you, that I have ſuch a fire kindled in me, as makes me burn with deſire to ofter Sacrifice to another Idol. I am a ſhamed to ſet down his words, they are ſo lewd. Nor can I imagine what ſhould bring ſuch things to his mind which are ſo far from my thoughts, but his own filthy inclinations; or what ſhould make him mention ſome things llBatchelors, prettiaeſs, Wives, &c. See p. 23, 122, 153., ſo often, and in ſuch a manner as he doth, but his love to ſmutty Diſcourſe. He is not content to make mouths at me (of whom he hath ſo little knowledg) but in effect at St. Paul himſelf; who commends thoſe that preſerved themſelves Holy in a ſingle life mmP. 153.. As if he placed perfection in wedlock; or was of that Gentleman's mind who taught the people this leſſon in the late times nnSome Flaſhes of Lightaing, &c. Sermo… upon 1 Cor. 11.10, 11, 12, 1648. P. 172.1 Cor 11:101 Cor 11:111 Cor 11:121 Cor 11:164: God needs ſuch a veſſel as Chriſt to put himſelf in. Chriſt needs ſuch a veſſel as you to put himſelf in. God would run every way, ſettle no where, be bounded in nothing if he did not ſettle in his Son. The Son p. 164would reſt no where, have no content, if it were not in thee. Men would run every way, reſt no where, if not bounded by a wife.

N. C.

Why do you not let ſuch abominable ſtuff lie buried in oblivion?

C.

I had rather have been ignorant of it, than put to the trouble to deteſt it. But ſince it is divulg'd, and comes in my way, I thought it a piece of very fit dirt, to ſtop ſuch a foul mouth as his withal.

N. C.

I wiſh he had not open'd it in theſe matters.

C.

Nor would he; if he had been indued with a little of that virtue which St. Bernard ſo much commends in his laſt Sermon upon the Canticles: Modeſty I mean, which he calls among other things, the Praiſe of Nature, the Sign of all Honeſty, the Firſt fruits of Virtue, the Siſter of Continence, the Preſerver of Purity, the Keeper of our Fame, the Beauty of Life, and the ſpecial Glory of the Conſcience. But his whole Book …s a ſtranger to this excellent quality, and writ in ſuch a manner, that they who can like it are in a worſe condition, in my judgment, than thoſe who love to feed upon coals and aſhes. He is come to p. 165ſuch a pitch of boldneſs, that he will undertake to tell you not only what Authors I read, but how much I have read in my Books: And that, for inſtance, I had no more wherewith to charge T.W. than what I produced ooPag. 51.. Which is the greater piece of impudence, becauſe I have ſufficient reaſon to conclude that he hath not read his Works himſelf, and ſo cannot tell what abſurdities I have obſerved. Nor hath he read W. B. later Works, though he commend them for the good and ſavoury paſſages that are in them. His former ppP. 194.indeed he thinks he hath read, I ſay he thinks (for he repeats it) that he hath read more in them, than I pretend to have done. A Huge piece of Learning! He might have ſafely left out his, I think, and ſpoken more confidently; for if he had read but one line, it would have been enough to make good his word: Becauſe (whatever I have read) I have pretended Nothing at all in that matter, but ſpoken only of his new Sermons. But he will make you an amends for this diffidence; for he hath a great ſecret to tell you with open mouth concerning the Conforming Miniſters; ſome of which, he p. 166ſaith, are known or judged to be arrant Socinians qqPag. 70.. And how doth he know it, think you? Is it by Revelation? Verily (to uſe one of his own words) for any thing that I can perceive, he doth not know it, but only ſuſpect it. And then how dare he, or others, judg them to be Socinians? Mark, I pray, his partition, They are either known, or judged, to be ſuch; that is, they are judged to be ſo ſometimes, though they are not known to be ſo. Theſe are men of a very nice and tender Conſcience, who take upon them to ſit in the Judgment Seat, and pronounce ſentence of Condemnation upon their Neighbours before they underſtand their Cauſe, or have any aſſurance that they are guilty of the Crime. When ſuch men have Power proportionable to their Malice; Lord have mercy upon us. If judgment and knowledg be divided in this manner, who is there that may not be voted to deſtruction? They will clap their hands and cry as a man goes along, thinking no harm; A Socinian, a Socinian, and ſtraightway the Hounds are let looſe—

N. C.

Uſe, I beſeech you, more civil terms.

C.

You have forgot, I perceive, your p. 167own phraſe, ſo common in the late times, when you incouraged one another to go a Parſon hunting. But you will remember it when you have power, and the people, as I was ſaying, will run like ſo many Dogs to tear the Innocent in pieces. For my part, I wiſh he may be queſtioned by thoſe who have Authority about this matter, that he may either make good his ſuggeſtion, or elſe be branded for a malicious Scribler.

N. C.

There is nothing of malice, I am confident, in his words.

C,

I crave your pardon, if I do not believe you: I have cauſe to think he knows not One. For among all my acquaintance, I could never meet with a man that knows, or ſuſpects, ſo much as one ſingle Miniſter to be of that perſwaſion. And one would think, that Conformiſts ſhould be known to one another, better than to ſuch triflers as he. Therefore I cannot but look on this as a piece of his diſingenuity and ſpight, (of which I told you, I would give an inſtance.) Socinian he knows is an odious name, and ſo he would willingly faſten it on ſome of us, if he could: the better to ſtir up the Peoples hatred againſt all p. 168thoſe whom they pleaſe to imagine men of that ſtrain. And for the very ſame cauſe, I doubt not, he talks of our Idolizing Grotius. It is a popular word, as was ſaid the laſt time we met together, which he hath not yet forgot. Whenſoever they would have any thing hated, it is but ſaying that ſuch and ſuch make an Idol of it, and immediately the People will abhor both it and them. Thus they ſaid, we made an Idol of the late King. And you may eaſily know with a little recollection, who it was that told a Gentleman when he ſaid Grace, and pray'd God would bleſs the King, (a little before his Death) Your Idol ſhall not ſtand long. But they dare not talk of Kings now: and yet the People muſt be perſwaded that we have ſtill ſome Idol to worſhip, and who ſhould it be but Grotius? (a ſuggeſtion as falſe as the Father of Lies can invent) together with another Image, like that of Nobuchadnezzar's, Dan. 4.32. which, ſaith he, you too much adore, and would have others do the like rrPag. 14.. But it can no more ſtand before the more ſelect parcels of another Statue which you decry, than Dagon could before the Ark. No, it trembles and quakes p. 169already, (witneſs your own fears, ſaith he,) the very ſound of Idol, and Image, and Dagon, is able to do the buſineſs. It is as ſtrong as a mighty wind to ſtir up the Peoples Paſſions, and put them into a hurry againſt us: Eſpecially when they are perſwaded the Ark is among theſe men; or if the Ark of God be taken, and the Ordinances a while removed by the Philiſtines, (you know the meaning of this Gibberiſh) it will return again with a vengeance.