Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 3 — Simon Patrick

Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 3 · Simon Patrick

A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate.

N. C.

NOw for an Iſhmael!

Are you the Iſaac's then, againſt whom to ſpeak a word, is to ſcoffe at the Children of God? And muſt we be all caſt out, like the bondwoman, and her ſon, to make room for you the Holy Seed?

N. C.

I did but uſe the words of a late Writer, who hath anſwered your two Debates. p. 19.

That hath ſnarl'd and carpt, you ſhould have ſaid, at ſome things in them which he did not underſtand, and—

N. C.

This is your old Pride.

It is one of your old Arts rather and wretched ſhifts, to call men proud, when you cannot confute them; and when you have blotted a great deal of Paper with ſenſeleſs or impertinent ſtuff, boldly to cry it up for an unanſwerable piece.

N. C.

What Arts do you tell me of? I know none, we uſe but honeſty and plain dealing.

We know a great many other, which have alway ſtood you in mighty ſtead. One is, to extoll the men of your own party to the very skie, to magnifie their gifts, their zeal, their ſincerity, their ſelf-denial, their tenderneſs of Conſcience, their pains taking, together with their ſufferings, though never ſo ſmall; And on the other ſide to diſparage ours, or, at the beſt to ſpeak very coldly of them, though never ſo pious and learned: nay to ſhake your heads ſometimes, and lament their Ignorance in the myſtery of Chriſt, the meanneſs of their ſpiritual gifts, the formality of their pravers, their unedifying preaching, and (as it is to be feared) their ſtraining Conſcience to comply with the times.

N. C.

Pray let's have no more of this.

Why may I not tell you a few other Devices that have been in uſe to win and keep your Proſelytes? As to brag of your numbers, to ſpread ſtories and lyes by your Agents and correſpondents from one end of the land to the other; to fill every Country with the very ſame tales; to poſſeſs the people againſt the writings of thoſe of our way; to give glorious titles to your own Books; to cry up your ſufferings, as if they were for the cauſe of Chriſt; to call all things you do not like, I dolatry, Antichriſtianiſme, Popery, and ſuch like odions and frightful names; nay, ſuch hath been the tenderneſs of ſome of your hearts, as to threaten your poor neighbours they ſhall have no work, at leaſt to deny to imploy them, unleſs they will come to your meetings.

N. C.

Now you calumniate to purpoſe.

It was a thing notorious in the late times, as Mr. Edwards aſſures us; and I have cauſe to think this evil humour is not ſpent, but rather encreaſed. But be that as it will; you have a number of far more efficacious Arts then this. As, to vaunt of the power of your preaching, of the glorious appearance of God among you, and of the multitude of Converts to you; to beſpatter all that oppoſe you; to perſwade the people, it was good livings that made ſo many turn Conformiſts; and that they have loſt their gifts, and are much decreaſed in their graces: at leaſt you have thought good to terrifie them, and bid them take heed; for they have loſt the prayers of thouſands. But if any adventure to write againſt you; wo be to them. Whatſoever they were before, immediately they become the enemies of God and all goodneſs. The people are told, that they ſtrike at the power of godlineſs through your ſides; and that they reproach Religion, when they reprove your Superſtition. Every reprehenſion is called railing and hatred to the people of God; and whatſoever fault they find, it is done on purpoſe, you ſay, to bring all godlineſs into contempt. In ſhort, to ſuppreſs you, is to ſuppreſs the Spirit; and but to ſpeak againſt your affected language, is to be deſperately profane: for who ever ſaw the beauty of Sion, and the glory of the Lord filling the Tabernacle, but in your Congregations? Let any man go about to contradict this, it is but pouring out half a dozen Scriptures againſt him, nothing to the purpoſe, and he is confuted; nay, one word will do the work, and he ſhall be thought to write rarely, and to come off like an Angel, who can but ſay; The Lord rebuke thee.

N. C.

You had as good hold your peace, for I beleive nothing that you ſay.

I can prove in every particular by true and faithful hiſtories, that this hath been the humour of your Sect.

N. C.

Save your ſelf the labour; I have no time nor liſt to hear you.

Nor to read good Books; but only to babble, as your Anſwerer doth, out of your own head. Did you never ſee a little Book called, A wiſe and moderate Diſcourſe concerning Church Affairs?

N. C.

No.

It was Printed in the beginning of our Warrs, 1641. And I find it ſince put among my Lord Bacons Works: there you may find ſeveral of theſe things noted. Firſt; ſaith he, *Speaking of the Oppugaers of the preſent Eccleſiaſtical Government.they have appropriated to themſelves the name of zealous and ſincere and reformers; as if all others were cold, minglers of holy things, profane men and friends to abuſes. Nay, if a man be indued with great vertues and fruitful in good works, yet if he coneurre not fully with them, he is called (in derogation) a civil and moral man, and compared to Socrates, or ſome Heathen Philoſopher. Juſt contrary to St. John, who would have called ſuch a man Religious; and told ſuch as many of them, that h… vainly boaſts of loving God whom he hath not ſeen, who loves not his neighbour whom he hath ſeen. St. James alſo ſaith, that this is true Religion, to viſit the Father leſs and the Widdow. So as that which is but Philoſophical and moral with them is, in the phraſe of the Apoſtle, true Religion and Chriſtianity. And as in affections they challenge the ſaid virtue of zeal and the reſt, ſo in knowledge they attribute … themſelves light and perfection. The Church of England in King Edwards daies wa… but in the ſwadling cloaths, or in the Cradle: in Queen Elizabeths time but in it infancy and childhood. The Biſhops h… ſomewhat of the Day break, but the M… turity and fulneſs of light is reſerved fo… themſelves. And as they conſure virtu… men by the names of Civil and Moral, … thoſe who are truly and godly wiſe (a… diſcern the vanity of their Aſſertions) they term Politicians; and ſay their Wiſedome is but carnal and ſavouring of mans Brain. And in like manner if a preacher ſpeak with care and meditation, ordering his matter diſtinctly, and inforcing it with ſtrong proofs and warrants, they cenſure it as a form of preaching, not becomming the ſimplicity of the Goſpel; and refer it to the reprehenſion of St. Paul, ſpeaking of the enticing words of mans wiſdome. You may read there a great deal more to the ſame purpoſe, if you have a mind to ſee your own picture. But nothing methinks is more memorable then the blind rage and fury, which the diſcovery of a moſt impious cheat excited in ſome of your predeceſſors hearts. There was a young Preacher pretended to a power of Caſting out Devils; which he began to aſſume in the year 1586. and more openly profeſſed 1597. This made a great noiſe of glory, lights, lamps, and ſhining beams which now appeared in the work, aDiſcovery of the fraudulent practices of John Darrel &c. A…. 1599. p. 19.It was given out to be a marvel…us work, a mighty work of the Lord Jeſas, which all that loved him in ſincerity muſt be careful to publiſh: a matter of as great conſequence and as profitable to all that ſincerely profeſſed the Goſpel, as ever any was ſince the reſtoring it amongſt us bIb. p. 16.: And though firſt her Majeſties Judges, and then her commiſſioners in cauſes Eccleſiaſtical, found by the free confeſſion of the party ſaid to be diſpoſſeſſed, that it was a meer cheat and a wicked combination to abuſe the people, yet they ceaſed not to cry out, that to deny the diſpoſſeſſion was in a ſort to deny the Goſpel. It appeared ſo evidently (ſaid the Author of the brief Narration) to be the finger of God; as though we our ſelves ſhould forſake it, and with Judas betray our Maſter, yea with Pharoah ſet our ſelves to obſcure it: yet the Lord if he love us will rather make the ſtones to cry out and utter it, Yea the Devils themſelves to acknowledge it, then it ſhall be hid. And I would adviſe them that ſlander this work and perſecute the Servants of God without cauſe *For Darrel you muſt know was impriſoned., to take heed leſt they be found even fighters againſt God. Now would you know, what the buſineſs was which made theſe men ſtickle and clamour in this faſhion? It was briefly this. When Mr. Darrel and his friends prayed by the Book, the boy, or as they ſaid the Devil in him, was but little moved; but when they uſed ſuch prayers as for the preſent occaſion they conceived, then the wicked ſpirit was much troubled. He acknowledged them alſo to be powerful men, and that he was much tormented by their powerful preaching **Diſco: very p. 35.48.49.50.This was it which tormented the Biſhops alſo, to ſee ſuch mean perſons do ſuch wonderful things, or to uſe their own words, It cannot be indured, ſaid the Narration cvid. p. 6., that theſe kind of men which are accounted the off-ſcouring of the world ſhould be thought to have ſuch intereſt in Chriſt Jeſus, as that, by their prayers and faſting, he ſhould as it were viſibly deſcend from Heaven and tread down Satan under their feet: whereas other men, ☞who account themſelves more learned, excellent, and wiſe than they, do not with all their Phyſick, Rhetorick, pomp, and primacy accompliſh the like. But God hath choſen the fooliſh things of the world to confound the wiſe, and the weak things of the world to confound the mighty. A place of Scripture as well applied, as that in the 4th. of St. Matthew, He ſhall give his Angels charge over thee, &c. and very fit to ſtir up the peoples hatred againſt their Governours, who appeared againſt this Holy Cauſe, as they called it, and laboured to ſuppreſs this mighty work of God.

N. C.

I hauehave no leiſure to hear theſe old ſtories, long ſince dead and buried.

Nor have I any need to look ſo far back. For this very Scriblers Book, which you tell me of, is a bundle of ſuch like lewd and impudent tricks and ſhifts, as I have mentioned: though the truth of it is, they are ſo poorly managed; that any one may ſee he is a meer bungler in his own trade: and elther for want of wit, or through the violence of his paſſion, cannot underſtand ſo much as common ſenſe.

N. C.

O Luciferian Pride! O attempts to outrail Ralyhakeh! You may make another Lucian in time, I had almoſt ſaid another Julian, if you perſiſt in this way.

You have his words by heart ap. 31. of his anſwer, and it is moſt ſtoutly and reſolutely anſwered. But I muſt tell you, it hath been alwaies thought (as Mr. Chillingworth well obſerves) a mark of a loſt and deſpairing cauſe, to ſupport it ſelf with impetuous outcries and clamours: the faint refuges of thoſe that want better arguments. And little doth he know, whom he imitates in theſe brutiſh exclamations. I never ſaw any man more like that fellow in Lucian, who cryed, O bforeign.accurſed wretch, O damn'd villain, when he could ſay nothing elſe.

N. C.

Yes, both he and we have ſomething elſe to ſay.

That is, you have a ſcornful and ſupercilious way of pittying thoſe, whom you have a mind to vilifie, which carries with it ſome ſhew of goodneſſe; when it proceeds from a great diſdain of others, and an high opinion of your ſelves. You may remember it, is like, without ſending you to a Book of undoubted credit where you may find it, who it was that ſaid publiquely, He intended to have preached before the poor wretch (viz. his late Majeſty, then near his death) upon 14. Iſa. 18.19. &c. but the poor wretch, ſaid he, would not hear me. Another alſo having jeered our Divine Service as much as he pleaſed, at laſt, wiping his mouth, ſanctified all with a ſigh or two over us, as poor deluded Souls: and then we were much indebted to his charity.

N. C.

You will be called to an account one day, for your malevolent and miſchievous writings.

That's another way you have to aſtoniſh and delude the Multitude, by thundring out Threatnings, and denouncing Judgments againſt us: in which this Gentleman is very powerful, and may paſs for a Boanerges. There being this device alſo accompanying it, to make the Art more effectual; which is, to cry out Blaſphemy! if we do but mention any of your Follies; to tell the people (as T. W. doth aEpiſtle to a new ſermon c…lled the Fiery Serpents. 19. Febr. 1668.) that you wiſh we have not ſinned the ſin unto death; and to bid us, take heed, that ſome do not think (as this ſcribler ſpeaks) we have done deſpight to the ſpirit of grace bp. 101. of ſober Anſwer.. Thus I remember ſome wrote a letter to Bp. M…ntague cAnnexed to the appeal of the Orthodox Miniſters (as they called themſelves) to the Par. againſt him printed at Edinburg. 1641., wherein they do bat charitably hope he hath not committed the Unpardonable ſin; exhorting him to recant publiquely of his malitious Errors and Hereſies, or elſe, they tell him, he could never have Salvation. But after this (as if they were in no danger, do they what they would) a fit of railing follows; wherein they upbraid him with his birth and parentage, nay, with his very looks and viſage (in ſuch vile language as I will not name) and at laſt conclude in this faſhion, If you can, love the Lord Jeſus, and do belong to his Election of grace dp. 31..

N. C.

Me thinks you have an art beyond all theſe, having ſhifted and put me off thus long from what I was going to ſay, that your Book is anſwered, and—

And ſoberly too, as the Title pretends.

N. C.

Yes.

Thats ſtrange, when he roars and cries out ſo hideouſly, as we have heard; and complains that he is in a paſſion; that I have made him ſpit and ſputter; nay ſpue in my very face.

N. C.

Do not uſe ſuch words.

They are his own confeſſions. ap. 14.31, 289.. And he acknowledges withall, that he was impatient till he came out againſt me; that he could not find a man ſo imprudent and deſperate as himſelf bpag. 2.3.31.; and having lay'd about him very furiouſly, he puffs and blows, and ſaies he is overheated; in ſo much that he is fain to cool himſelf again with ſome Holy breath and falls to prayer, when he can exclaim againſt me no longer. This ſhews him to be one of the right ſtrain; that can do theſe things which they condemn, and immediately betake themſelves to their Prayers and ſay I hate my ſelf for it cp. 22.; and then they are well, and ready to do the ſame again. A thoroughly honeſt man would have laboured to undo what he ſaw he had done amiſs; as he might, if he had pleaſed, with one ſtroke of his pen. But there is no ſuch demonſtration of his fierce and fiery ſpirit, as this; that he reſolved to confute the ſecond part of my Book before he ſaw it, at leaſt before he would conſider it?

N. C.

Why do you ſay ſo?

Becauſe it did not come to his hand, as he tells you dit was May 3. and he began April. 21. pag. 81.till he had written ſeveral ſheets and printed ſome (as I have reaſon to think) and yet they bear the Title of an Anſwer to the two Friendly Debates. At leaſt he clapt on this Title as ſoon as the ſecond part appeared, and before he had duly weighed all things in it; for I know thoſe that ſaw ſome of his ſheets printed with that Title preſently after May the 3d. when he firſt received my Book. Was not this bravely done, and like a man in his ſober wits? Are not theſe like to prove excellent men to guide your Conſciences, who reſolve before hand, if we reaſon with them, not to be convinced, but to adhere to their party right or wrong? I could not but fancy him, when I obſerved this, in ſuch a poſture as Mr. Burroughs thought he ſaw Mr. Edwards, fretting and chaſing in his ſtudy, ſaying to himſelf, I will anſwer him, I that I will: I will reply, I that I will. Like one Piſo, St. Hierome ſpeaks of, who though he knew not what to ſay, yet he knew not how to hold his peace. If he could have had a little patience till he had read but the Epiſtle of my Book ſeriouſly, he might have met with ſuch adviſe as would have cooled him better then his Prayers, viz. To know before he judged, and not to believe all flying Tales. But an Anſwer it ſeems was to be thruſt out in all haſt, no matter how it was compoſed, or of what lyes it was made up. He could not ſtay to think much about it, nor indeed was there any great need; being to pleaſe thoſe mean Spirits, who like a work beſt, (as a great man obſerves) when it reſembles thoſe Sacrifices, out of which the heart is taken; and where, of all the Head, nothing is left but the tongue only.

N. C.

And why, I beſeech you, ſhould not he anſwer you? Are you ſuch a Goliah of Gath, that no man can deal with you?

I took a meaſure of my ſelf before ever I took pen in hand: and know very well how much inferiour I am to my neighbours. But the more to ſet off the greatneſs of his own courage and noble Atchivements he paints me like that uncircumciſed Philiſtine: and then fancies himſelf to be a choſen one, pickt out by God eAs God would have it, I proved to be the man. p. 192.like another David to enter into a ſingle combate with me. This he was not contented to tell us once fp. 1., but as his manner is, he repeats it again in his fulſome preface gp. 28.. Having no fear but this, that after he had killed Goliah he ſhould riſe again, and renewing the fight ſhould bring ſome other Giant into the field with him, and be two to one; which all know is unequal. And therefore diſtruſting my generoſity of which he had ſome opinion when he concluded his Book hp. 192. I think you a more generous Enemy than to ſet any body beſide your ſelf upon me who have encountred you without the help of a ſecond, &c., he betakes himſelf to Conjurations to keep me from taking that advantage. I may well conjure you, ſaith he, that if I muſt be replyed to, you alone would do it, for it is not equal that you ſhould have a ſecond, and I have none. It was enough for ſuch a ſtripling as David to encounter one Giant at a time; and you are taken by ſome for another Goliah. What ailed thee, O thou flowr of Chivalry, to faint on this faſhion? How came thy ſtout heart to quail at laſt? Thou that canſt pour out Scripture upon thy Enemies as thick as Hail-ſhot, that canſt charge and diſcharge as faſt as a man can ſpit, that canſt diſpatch Dragons as eaſily as Goliah's; Why ſhouldſt thou fear a thouſand Giants, though as big as Steeples, any more than ſo many Crows?

N. C.

Pray ceaſe your fooling.

I aſſure you he muſt paſs, at leaſt, for one of the Seven Champions; for no body, he tells you, is thought to be my march, unleſs a St. George who kill'd the Dragon iPag. 292.. Behold the man then, Horſe and Arms, and all. See how he flouriſhes and ſwaggers, and reſolves to pull me down from the third Heavens, whither he fears the breath of the people, and my own vanity may in fancy have tranſported me kIb. 292.. But the miſchief of it is, this Doughty Knight had no ſooner beſtrid his Beaſt and marched a few paces, but by ſome Inchantment or other he loſt his wits, and was turned into a new Don Quixote. For if you look into the very next page l293. As he told Hezekiah, that he would deliver him 2000. Horſes if he were able to ſet Riders up a them: ſo it hath been ſaid, if any man would be the Rider, … mean, the Anſwerer of your Book, he, or rather his Book, ſhould come mounted into the World upon the Back of a… Authentick Licenſe, &c I hope then I ſhall not miſcar…y, &c.; you will find that he fancies my Book to be an Horſe, himſelf riding on the back of it, and which is moſt wonderful, at the ſame time fighting with it: and it was none of his fault, I aſſure you, that he was not alſo mounted upon the back of an authentick Licenſe. But nothing daunted for want of that, up he gets on the Back of the Book, and giving it line upon line (as he ſpeaks) and laſh upon laſh, away he flies with his head full of Chimaera's and impoſſible Imaginations. For he had but juſt fetcht his breath, and ſpoken a few words, before the poor Book was turned into a ſtrong City or Fortreſs; and he walked round about it; as his own deſcription of his adventures tell us, told the Towers thereof, markt well its Bulwarks, conſidered its Palaces mPag. 294., and ſetting down before it, either beſieged or ſtorm'd it, he knew not whether; and, in his fancy, pulled down all the ſtrong holds thereof, and brought into Captivity every Notion in it, that did exalt it ſelf againſt Truth and Godlineſs. And yet he had not travail'd farr, before it was turn'd into a mighty man again, and he thought he ſaw a Sampſon, threatning to pull down the whole Fabrick of Religion, as he did the Houſe upon the Philiſtins nPag. 22. of the Preface.. And then it was a Goliah, as I told you oIb. p. 28.; and a very few minutes before pIb. p. 27.it appeared like Geryon, a Gyant with three heads; nay, he did not know but it might be a whole Legion, compaſſing Religion, as he elegantly ſpeaks, with Rams Horns to make it fall like the walls of Jericho qIb. p. 25..

N. C.

I think you are horn madd.

You imitate his puny jeſts very well. And to confeſs the Truth, I am a little out; and muſt correct my Error in not begining in good Order. I ſhould have told you, as the cuſtom is, that of all the days in the year it was April 21. rAs he tells in the the begining of his Book., in the cool of the Spring ſWhich makes the adventure more wonderful, Don. Q. fury happeni…g in the warmeſt day of July., the Nonconformiſts being then in the tenth degree of Taurus, or to ſpeak in plain terms, in the Second of the twelve Signs of the Zodiack of their ſufferings.—

N. C.

Your wit ſure is in the fall of the leaf.

Very well. I am glad to ſee you in ſo good a humour; but you muſt laugh at him, and not at me, for they are his words I aſſure you tP. 246. I had almoſt ſaid they have run through all twelve of the Signs in that Zodiack of Suffering which I ſpake of.. Then, I ſay, it was, when the good Knight Philagathus, or as he is ſometimes ſtiled, Philogathus (for there is a difference about his Name, as there was about Don Quixote's) abandoning the ſlothful plumes, and cauſing certain old ruſty Arms to be ſcoured, which had a long time lain neglected and forgotten, in the great Magazines of Qui mihi, Propria quae Maribus, Syntaxis, and other ſuch like famous Armories, put on his Cap, took up his Pen or Lance (call it which you pleaſe) and mounted his Steed, marvellous content and jocund to think what a noble enterpriſe he took in hand, of cleaving Giants, beheading Serpents, killing Monſters, finiſhing Enchantments, and in one word, righting all the wrongs, and redreſſing all the injuries, that had been done to the N. C. He had no ſooner ſallied forth, but a world of windmills whirl'd in his head; and at every turn he fancied he ſaw ſome huge Giant, ſome impious Goliah defying the Armies of the living God. Upon theſe he ſets with a zealous rage, and by his own ſingle arm, in his conceit, vanquiſhes them all; not having ſo much as a Sancho Pancha to wait upon him. A Monſter or Prodigy of ill Nature, for inſtance, preſents it ſelf, the greateſt, one of them, that ever he heard of uPag. 80.. At the firſt ſight it ſeemed to his roving thoughts like Bloody Bonner, but a little after, like cruel Nero, breathing out nothing but death and deſtruction. This put him out of all patience, as he tells you, ſo that after a few words, he could neither think nor ſpeak any more of it; but falls on to threſh it like a Sheaf of Wheat to the very duſt, for fear it ſhould heat a fiery furnace, which now appear'd in his Imagination, and which the Monſter, he thought, might beſpeak for them. Thus it was in danger to become a Nebuchadnezzar, and before he had done, it appeared in the ſhape of the Devil himſelf; every one ſuſpecting that if it were in the power of this Fiend, he would caſt them body and ſoul into endleſs torments xThey are his words, p. 149.. And who do you think this Nero-like Monſter was? you will ſcarce believe it; but if you conſult the Book, you will find it was no body but St. Paul himſelf, or a poor Conformiſt explaining and uſing his Words yFriendly Debate, 1. Part. p. 53.; to ſhew his neighbour that, according to the Apoſtles opinion, he might as well ſuffer him only to commend ſome perſons a little, as ſuffer others to do a great deal more than that comes to: This made it vehemently ſuſpected that our Don's brains did more than Crow at this bout, and that he craſht his teeth, and was perfectly madd with rage. The firſt occaſion of which was a bodily fear wherewith he was ſurpriſed, that the Monſter had a deſign to forrage all the Country, and leave it ſo naked of Belly-ware, that he and his muſt ſtarve. This kindled his wrath, and made his eyes ſo red, that he could ſee nothing but Blood, Death, and Hell fire; though there was not the leaſt ſpark, I aſſure you, of envy, anger or ill-will in him whom he yells againſt. But let us paſs by this; and next behold a Monſter of Pride, taller by the head and ſhoulders than moſt others, which ſtarted out of his fancy and ſet it ſelf before him. It was the more frightful, becauſe it was thus large, and yet but a young Cub; not yet grown up unto the meaſure of the ſtature of the fulneſs of Pride; as he is pleaſed to deſcribe it zP. 196.. He reſolved therefore to ſlice him, and make minc'd meat of him before he grew too boiſterous, and ſtretcht himſelf as high as Lucifer, or the Morning Star. I… which Planet, if you will believe an Hiſtory aLucian. Verae Hiſt. L. 1.as true as his Book, there are people by this time ſo big, that from the waſte upward they are as tall as the great Coloſfus of Rhodes. But of all the Apparitions he encountred in this Frenzy, there were none put him into ſo great a Paſſion, as an huge Giant, juſt like that wicked Alifamfaron, a furious Pagan, mentioned in the famous Hiſtory of Don Quixote. L. 1. Part. 3. c. 4.For he conceived he ſaw him taking a courſe, that Divinity might be exchanged for Philoſophy, Chriſtianity for Heatheniſm, our Bibles and the Precepts thereof, for Seneca and Epictetus bPreface p. 18.. All the Country was in danger to be waſted by him; for he threatned, as he imagined, to pull down the whole Fabrick of Religion cIb p. 22., and to extirpate praectical Holineſs from Dan even to Beerſheba, from one end of the Land to the other dIb. p. 12.. For the compaſſing of which, behold a great rout, with a numerous train of Artillery following him at the heels, I know not how many Maximes, Stratagems, Directions, Aphoriſms, and other clattering words, as you may find in his terrible Preface. Where he tells you they are very unſound and unſavoury, yea prophane and impious, yea and bent againſt Religion eIb p. 39.. Thus he multiplyed Monſters in his wild Imagination, which made thoſe things appear prophane and impious, yea and bent againſt Religion (for theſe things are different in his conceit) which are as in nocent as that Flock of Sheep which Don Quixot… took for ſo many Giants in Alifamfarons Army. So ſome of his Friends, as I underſtand, told him, and would have reſtrained him (as Sancho laboured to do his Maſter) from making ſuch a deſperate aſſault upon ſuch harmleſs things; but nothing could withhold him: Away he flings and hunts up and down, as Don Quixote did among the Sheep, ſaying, in great heat, Where art thou proud Alifamfaron, where art thou? O have I found thee? come to me thou proud Wretch, for I am but one Knight alone, who deſire to prove my force with thee man to man, and deprive thee of thy life, in revenge of the wrongs thou haſt done to the N. C. And juſt as he was thinking to chaſtiſe his Pride, he fancied himſelf transform'd into an Angel and Meſſenger from Heaven fP. 201.. to give the Villain ſuch buffets, as he thinks he will remember all the days of his life.

N. C.

You ſaid, he would take away his life. Pray make an end of this idle tale.

You muſt know he was ſo merciful, as not to kill him, provided he would ſubmit to this condition, to go to W. B. as Don. Q. reſolved to enjoyn the conquered Caraculiamtro to go to his Dulcinea, and falling on his knees with an humble and ſubmiſſive voice ask forgiveneſs gPag. 41., and ſay, I am that furious Pagan, the deſtroyer of Religion, the rooter out of Practical Piety, whom the never too much praiſed Knight Don Philogathus, hath overcome in ſingle combate, and hath commanded me to preſent my ſelf before your greatneſs, that it may pleaſe your Highneſs to diſpoſe of me according to your liking. This being done, he tells him they will ſhake hands, as the Lawyers do after they have fought at the barr, and ſay how do you Brother? I hope there is no hurt done, but all is well again hPag. 290, 291..

N. C.

It's well the fray is over: and I hope you have done your Story.

I have omitted a number of pleaſant conceits that came into his head, which would make a Volume as big as Amadis de Gaul, ſhould they be all written. And now I mention him, it calls to mind a notable diſpute which hapned between Don Quixote and a neighbour of his, touching who was the better Knight Palmarin of England, or Amadis de Gaul: for juſt ſuch another doth our Don raiſe about this Queſtion, Whether St. Taffee, or St. Patrick was the better Saint. Many words he makes about it; and in ſpight of the Iriſh, or the red letter before his name, St. Patrick, in his judgment, hath the worſe of it. And no wonder: for ſuch was his groſs Ignorance, that he poor Soul took St. Taffee or David, for the Divine Pſalmiſt the King of Iſrael. When as every child knows, who hath read true Hiſtories, and not pleaſed himſelf like this Knight in his own Imaginations, that he was a famous Biſhop in Wales about 1100. year ago; who by the favour of King Arthur tranſlated the Archi-Epiſcopal See from Landaff, to that City which bears his Name to this day.

N. C.

I confeſs here he ſtumbled grieveouſly. But I thought you would have been ſo kind, as to have imputed it to the power of Enchantment.

That I confeſs is the beſt excuſe, which will make his miſtakes as pardonable as the Errors of his Predeceſſor Don Quixote; who took his Inne for a great Caſtle, and the honeſt Hoſt for the Noble Conſtable of it. And indeed a pleaſant ſight it is, to behold how while he is ſearching for one thing, he ſtill encounters another, as Sancho ſorrowfully told Maritornes. He transforms every thing he meets withal into ſomething elſe quite of another nature; and now it appears in one ſhape, immediately in another ſo vaſtly different, that the great Enchantreſs the Author of all theſe transformations, (I have forgot her name, but it ends alſo in fee or fia *Dokeſiſophia as I take it.) is much to be admired. As for example, now he fancies me riding like Phaeton in the Chariot of the Sun, ſetting this part of the world on fire; and in a trice, before he had well finiſhed one Sentence, the wind of my Spleen (mark the diſtraction of his fancy) is rumbling in the bowels of the Earth, to make an Earthquake all England over iPreface, p. 6.. At this inſtant he quarrels with the Rational Divines (as he calls them) and makes a fearful ſtir with them; and at the next breath, they are turn'd into Romantick Preachers, that would plant all Religion within the compaſs of the famous Arcadia kIb. p. 12. 13.. As for himſelf, you ſhall find him like a Roman Sergeant with a bundle of Rods at his back, but let him ſpeak a few words, and he is turn'd into a Robin Hood, and appears with his Bow and Arrows which he lets fly among us lIb. p. 31..

N. C.

No, only at your ſelf. For … labours to give no offenſe to Jew or Ge… tile, or to the Church of God, as he the… tells you, p. 34.

Very well obſerved; he is excee… ing tender of all Jews and Gentiles, in… which his diſtracted fancy transform… ſome of us; but there are certain P… grims, what they are in his eſteem, Jew… Gentiles or Chriſtians, I cannot tell, … whom he grins very often and makes u… ly mouths, nay, lets fly with all h… might, and treats them very rudely. B… he is never more extravagant, than wh… he comes to talk of keeping days, whi… is as dear to him as Dulcinea to his Brother Don. This he compares to emptying the Body by Bleeding and Purging Spring and Fall, or as occaſion ſerves▪ and yet at the very next glance conceives it like to exceedings in our Diet, … eating and drinking to a greater fulneſs mIb. pag. 18, 19.All this ſhews that he is out of his wit… and needs a little bleeding himſelf. If he were ſent from that Hoſpital where he now is, to that without Biſhopſgate, it might do him a great deal of good.

N. C.

Now you bite.

I am between jeſt and earneſt (as he ſpeaks, p. 293.) but by no means can …e made angry with him: Eſpecially when I ſee how prettily he frisks, how l…ghtly he leaps over all difficulties, and jumps from one thing to another at the greateſt diſtance; juſt l…ke the Knights-Errant, who are carried in a clowd from one Country to another in the twinkling of an eye: being now in England, and immediately at Trap…ſonda by the help of the wiſe Enchanter. And then he doth ſo nimbly, and with ſo much facility apply every thing he meets withal to his raving Chivalry and ill-errant thoughts (as the Author of Don Q. Hiſtory ſpeaks) that it is no ſmall pleaſure to behold it. Beſides, he is ſo marvellouſly well ſatisfied with his performance, and thinks at every turn he comes off ſo rarely, and with ſuch wonderful ſucceſs, that it cannot but give one a ſingular entertainment. He meets, ſuppoſe, with a Rational Divine, and ſpeaks never a word of reaſon to him: and yet away he flies like Lightning, as if he had ſeen that old Sophiſter, the Devil. Nay, he fancies ſometimes that he ſees a whole Regim…nt, whom he calls the Rational Regiment nPag. 68.: but that's all one, he hews them down as if they were but ſo much Graſs; and in two words, his Worſhip hath got the Victory. More th… this, while he is in this career, and imgines one part of the Caſtle (i. e. t… Book) to be taken and demoliſhed; … wonders the other did not fall to th… ground of it ſelf, or vaniſh rather o… of ſight oSee p. 197.. For, ſaith he, I have pro… at large, about the begining of my Book, the this is the right ſenſe, and yet you con… nue wedded to your own Expoſition, &c. … if his Anſwer had appeared before t… Book he encountred was all in being or as if upon his combate with the begining of the Book, the reſt ſhou… have diſappeared; and the Letters turne as white as Paper, for fear that … ſhould ſee them. What, are you at … again, after I have ſo chaſtiſed yo… Dare you look me in the face again wi… that Expoſition, which I have batter… and bang'd you for? Methinks yo… ſhould have remembered the blows yo… received; and knowing the weight … …y arm, not come within the reach … it any more. But, O ſtupidity! I fi… you continue wedded to your own Exp…ſi… on, nay, keep a woful hugging and da… ling of the Baſtard, after I have daſht i… brains againſt the ſtones. To this purpoſe the man muſed, as you read i… the place now quoted. Whereby you may ſee, he hath a crack in his brain ſo wide, that one may put two or three fingers into it.

N.C.

I am very ſorry for him, I think he is an honeſt man.

You need not trouble your ſelf at all about him. He is as merry as a Cricket for all this: and injoys himſelf moſt ſweetly in the thoughts of his noble atchievments.

N. C.

But he hath ſtumbled ſo ſcurvily, that he hath wounded himſelf very much in my opinion.

Never fear; he is ſo full of mettle that he will ſcarce feel it, though he ſhould receive ſuch a blow on the jaws, as was given Don Quixote; which left him but two teeth and an half; all the reſt being as plain as the palm of my hand.

N.C.

And I muſt tell you, that would be a ſore affliction: for a mouth without cheek-teeth, as my Author ſays, is like a Mill without a Mill-ſtone. Thoſe Grinders are pretious things, much more to be eſteemed than Diamonds.

He is ſo jocund, that he values them not; but would think himſelf as good a man, though he ſhould live upon Pap, and be fed with a Spoon. Beſides, I muſt let you know, that he hath a great Vial full of Balſam, altogether as powerful as the famous Balſamum of Fierabras.

N. C.

What is that? I underſtand not your hard words.

It was the beſt Balſam that any Knight-errant ever had. For the virtue of it was ſo great, that ſhould a man chance to receive ſuch a bang upon his ſide as buried two or three of his ribs in his body, nay hapned to be cloven in twain, ſo that one half of him fell on this, the other on that ſide of his Saddle; yet a draught or two of it, if he w…re carefully ſet together again, would make up the breach intirely, and ſtraightway render him as ſound as an Apple. Such a pretious Compoſition our Don Philagathus is provided withal, which conſiſts of ſuch ingredients as theſe; It is or may be; ſome perhaps; I had almoſt ſaid; for any thing I know; I know nothing to the contrary; if I miſtake not; and ſome other ſuch like words …; whereby he can ſalve any thing, though you imagine the cure never ſo deſperate. As for example, When W. B. is charged with Preaching that God is departed from the Nation, but will return, &c. pPag. 190.preſently he produces his Bottle, and drops out one or two of thoſe words, ſaying, It may be Mr. B. deteſts Treaſon as much as your ſelf, though careleſs Brachygraphers may—

N. C.

What are thoſe?

We have talkt ſo much of Monſters, that you take them, I perceive, for ſome ſtrange Creatures who abuſed W. B. They are thoſe that take Sermons in Short-hand; who, ſaith he, may ſaſten ſome unwary expreſſions upon him, now and then; and ſuch it may be as never fell from his mouth, &c. And now all is well, and W. B. as whole as a fiſh. Though others think for all this, that it may be he doth not deteſt it, and it may be thoſe words did full from his mouth, and the Brachygr— (the hard word ſticks in my throat) it may be did not abuſe him; or rather it is certain they did not; otherwiſe he might have heal'd himſelf before this, in a better manner than this Quack can do; by aſſuring us in two or three downright words, that no ſuch thing fell from his mouth.

N. C.

I think, to ſay the truth, this is a pittiful Salvo.

It is juſt ſuch another; when to excuſe the Sawcineſs of ſome mens Prayers, he pertly and confidently replies, I know Nothing to the Contrary, but that your Miniſters do miſcarrry in their Prayers as oft or oftner than the N. C. do qPag. 97., and then he hath done the feat, and ſet them as ſtraight as an Arrow. As if I ſhould ſay, I know nothing to the contrary but that Philagathus his wife beats or ſcratches him every day, and makes him wiſh himſelf a Batchelour again, though never ſo ſtale.

N. C.

I beſeech you throw away this Vial of Balſam, which is no bette… than a Tar-box, and very much offen… me.

And will never heal, you ſhould have added, his Error about St. Davi…, who, do what he can, was not the … that killed Goliah, but a younger an… leſſer Saint than St. Patrick. He mu… find ſome other Drug to cure Ignoranc… or Diſtraction of Mind: and he wa… certainly then in ſome ſuch raving fit … that, wherein he met with Pontius P… late, and took him for a Believer. Nay he was in good earneſt; and brings … ny arguments to prove that he had … real and ſtrong perſwaſion that Chriſt … the Son of God, and Saviour of the World rPage 65, 66.Do you hear, ſaith he, you the Author of the Friendly debate, who have been Preaching two years (as hath been ſaid sPag. 121.,) why men ſhould believe. Do you know what a Believer is? Have you learnt to underſtand your Creed? I will prove that Pontius Pilate was as good a Believer as any you will make, according to your Doctrine. To this purpoſe he dreamt in that fit.—

N. C.

But he hath rub'd his eyes, you muſt know, ſince that, and ſees he was miſtaken tPreface, p. 35..

Are the Ordeal, the hot Coulters, the Plough-ſhares, the Noli me tangere's, and all the dangerous things he ſpeaks of uPag. 2. of the Book.vaniſhed too.

N. C.

Yes, they are ſhier gone: He fears them not, for they were only in his imagination xPag. 37. of the Preface..

Then he begins to come to himſelf, as Don Quixote did before he died: and though he be as yet but half awake, (for he only remembers that he ſomewhere aſſerted Pilate to be a Believer, he cannot tell well where) yet he may in time recover his perfect ſenſes, and recant all that he hath ſaid: Eſpecially if ſome friend will be at the pains to rouze him; as, I have reaſon to believe that he was beholden for this little illumination, to ſome honeſt Sancho or other: who alway talkt more ſoberly than Don, and would never believe the Windmill to be a G…ant, nor the innocent Muttons to be monſtrous devouring Pagans, coming to fight againſt the Chriſtian Fa…th. When the Enchantment is fin…ſhed, it is to be hoped he may be in as good a mind; and ſo we will leave him, and proſecute his innumerable follies no …urther.

N. C.

You will do him and me too I gre…t kindneſs: for I am weary of it.

But if ſome School-boy about the Town ſhould take the toy in his head, to finiſh th… Hiſtory, How can I help it? Or if ſome young Preſhman in the Univerſity ſhall take him to task, and belabour him as the Yangueſian Carrien did D…n Quixete with their Truncheons, in the Vale of Pack-ſtaves; or toſs him in a Blanket, as, the Play-ſome Clothiers did Sancho, till mere wearineſs conſtrain'd them to give over: he muſt thank …ſelf for it, who would neers …e ſo bo… …, and play with words … manner, that it would … the Poſterior's of a Lad … Kings School at Weſtminſter, who ſhould be caught at ſuch deſpicable ſport.

N. C.

I hope you will be ſo civil as not to ſet any young Wag upon his back.

No indeed, I love not the ſport ſo well. But if he continue at it, or any other imitate him; then I would deſire that gentle Youth, who ſhall entertain us with the Hiſtory of ſuch adventures, that when he ſets before us the Onions, the Anchoves & other Sauces, which Philag. commends yPag. 50., he by no means forget the Parſnips zPag 52. Private perſon, expect ſome Sawce, as might be Parſnips; yet ſuch windy things muſt be eaten temperately by N.C. for fear of ſuch Cracks as you are, that will publiſh them with an ill report.: a rare kind of ſauce, which hath this admirable property; that if they be eaten by Non Conformiſts, and prove windy in their Guts; the Conformiſts ſhall crack and ſtink for them.

N. C.

Foh! I doubt he will jerk him terribly for this conceit.

I have a fancy comes into my mind of a more proper puniſhment for him.

N. C.

What ſhould that be?

The ſame which the Cavalier del F…bo ſuffered when he was taken in a ſnare.

N. C.

I underſtand you not.

A ſecret Author, of no ſmall credit, tells us, that they gave him a Clyſter of Snow-water and Sand; which made ſuch work in the poor Knights entrails, that it had gone very ill with him, had he not been ſuccoured in that great diſtreſs, by a wiſe man, and his very great Friend:

N. C.

He being a Doctor, can cur… himſelf. But I pray for my ſake paſs by theſe things, the Bull, the Calf, the Milch-Cow, the Dairy and all the reſt aPreface, p. 28. and Book, p. 30..

There, he would tell you, lies the very Cream of the Jeſt.

N. C.

I beſeech you, let Cream and Cheeſe go too; and now look upon hi… as a ſound man, that is reſtored to his right underſtanding again.

I have done: and wiſh with all my heart he may never hear more of this from any body elſe.

N. C.

If you have done, and will be ſerious, I will ask you a few Queſtions, which, me-thinks, concern you very much.

Let's hear them. You ſhall ſe… how ſolemn and compoſed I will be.

N. C.

You cannot deny but that he diſcourſes very orderly ſometimes, and its thought hath touched you to the quick. What ſay you, Do you not feel your ſelf ſore with the wounds he hath given you?

You begin to be pleaſant, now that I have done.

N. C.

I think you have infected me a little; but I intend to propound ſome things very ſoberly to your conſideration, wherein he is ſaid to have confuted you: hoping you will give me as ſober an Anſwer.

I promiſe you to conſider every thing as gravely and as impartially as I can; to anſwer you alſo without any puns, which he calls jeſts, in which I dare not vie with him. And, to ſpeak plainly, it is a thing much below me; beſides, that his wit is ſo deſpicable, as I told you, that there are boys of 17. and of no great parts neither, who are much ſuperiour to him. I will endeavour alſo to ſpeak pertinently to the buſineſs, and not ramble as he doth. We will have no great Volume neither, for I know he can write Books with moſt men for a Wager: A Martyrology bSee Pag. 237.: I make no Queſtion, as big as Mr. Fox's, and that in a ſhort time, and with no mean ſhew of Learning. For as for the Stories; it is but taking up all the Reports he meets withal in the Streets, and ſending Meſſengers to all the Coffee-houſes, and Letters into all parts for the Country Tales, and that work is diſpatcht. And then for a ſhew of Learning there is nothing need be done (as a Friend of the Author of D. Quixotes Hiſtory told him) but only to bob into the Book ſome Latine Sentences, which he knows already by rote, or may eaſily get without any labour. As for example, when he Treats of Liberty and Thraldom, he may cite that, Non bene pro toto libertas venditur auro; (You underſtand it, I ſuppoſe, or at leaſt believe it is Scholar-like.) If he have occaſion to mention Death, he may have recourſe to that, pallida mors aequo pulſat pede, &c. A notable ſentence, and very well known ever ſince Horace his days. If of the inconſtancy of Friends, Ovid is at hand with his Diſtich, Donec eris faelix, multos &c. If of Love, He is ready to befriend him with his Hei mihi quod millis, &c. I need not recite the reſt, nor tell you that there is an honeſt Book called the Grammar, that will furniſh him with Diruit, aedificat, &c. and an hundred more ſuch like rarities. As for other leſſer ſhreds and bits every School-boy hath them at his fingers ends: The common phraſes alſo (as ad nauſeam uſque, &c.) they are ſo familiar with this Author, and he hath contracted ſuch an acquaintance with them, that they will all run to him at an hours warning, and will leave me never an one to aſſiſt me. Therefore I ſhall of my own accord wave them all, and deſire them to ſtand by, or go into whoſe ſervice they pleaſe; intending to ſhift as well as I can without them. Now what have you to ſay? I am not only a ſingle perſon, as you ſee, but quite naked and diſarm'd of all thoſe weapons wherewith he is ſo well appointed; ſo that you may hope to prevail, if Truth cannot defend me. And that I proteſt Is the thing I will contend for, not for Victory.

N. C.

Come on then: Say well, and do well. How can you defend ſo much as the Title of your Book? Are you a friend to thoſe whom you cannot endure within five mile of you cPag. 4 of his Book.; but urge the Law againſt them?

You have anſwered your ſelf, and and would have called him carnal, I am ſure, ſhould One of us have askt you ſuch a Queſtion. Do you that are ſo Spiritual underſtand no other kindneſs but what is done to your Bellies? I love you ſo well, that I would have you Innocent; and am ſuch a Friend to you that I deſire to ſee you at the wideſt diſtance from any ſin.

N. C.

Pray ſtay Sir; your kindneſs is much ſuſpected. If I ſhould propoſe ſome ſuch queſtion to you as Chriſt di… to Peter. Simon loveſt thou me? you dur… not ſay, thou knoweſt I love thee dIb..

No indeed.

N. C.

Did not I tell you ſo.

I think I may conclude withou… any offence, that you are not yet ſ… knowing, as to ſearch the heart. You… Philag. indeed ſuppoſes our very ſouls li… open to you; elſe, why doth he ende… vour to ſatisfie me ePreface, pag. 1., that he doth n… know himſelf to have ever received the leaſt injury from me in deed, or word, … thought? But you muſt pardon us if we be of another mind, and cannot appea… to you as St. Peter did to Chriſt. If yo… will judg of us by our words, then … can more than ſay, I can proteſt that even thoſe Debates were writ in kindneſs to you, and he ought to have thanked him that told you of your faults, had you any mind to amend them I proteſt alſo, that I had no reſpect to any particular perſon in that paſſage, which he thinks ſo full of deadly poyſon fP. 4. of the Book.; and therefore it was the aking of his own Tooth that made him ſnap at me. But why do I ſpend the time in ſuch trivial things as theſe? The Prefaces to both my Books might have ſatisfied any unpaſſionate Reader, what my intention was. But he very fairly takes no notice of them, leaſt they ſhould have made him throw away a great deal of the civil languge he had to beſtow upon me. And for as good a reaſon, I make no doubt, he over-lookt the Continuance of our Debate, becauſe it would have undone a good part of his Book, which is there already anſwered gAs about the nonexecution of Laws; ſharpneſs, ſcandal, and many more too long to number..

N. C.

I muſt not let you paſs thus with the Reputation of good Nature. It was not kindly done of you, to bring in the N. C. uttering ſuch words as make the King to be a Tyrant hP. 8. of his Book..

As imply you ſhould have ſaid. But I pray tell me, What ſhall be done to this falſe tongue'd Philagathus, who tells us in another place very boldly, that I bring in the N. C. ſpeaking Treaſon, even ſaying, that the King is a Tyrant? Will you never leave this Trade of Lying?

N. C.

You muſt paſs by that.

If he had not told the world an hundred Lies more, I ſhould not have taken notice of …t. As to the thing he charges me withal; I did but ſet down thoſe words, which more beſides me have often heard, and ſuppoſing they were raſhly ſpoken, without conſideration of what they implyed, let them go with that Confeſſion. What greater Candor could he deſire? and what reaſon was there for his pains to excuſe the N. C. from judging the King a Tyrant? ſave only that he was glad to ſnatch an opportunity to praiſe, as well as be could, the mercy and clemency of his Majeſty towards them. But I believe I ſhall make him wiſh he had held his tongue, and ſpared his ill-ſavour'd and ill-contrived Rhetorick. For firſt … only tells us that the Sober Non-Conf…rmiſts …refar from thinking the King a Tyrant iIb. p. 8.. It ſeems there are ſome ſo mad… and deſperate as to be of the contrary opinion. And how many who can tell? or what may be the iſſue o… …t?

N. C.

For the love of God, be not ſevere againſt that ſlip. Or let the Sober men make an amends for their defects: … it is poſsible they love his Majeſty more than you.

And it is poſſible they may not love him at all. Was there ever ſuch a wretched Orator to plead any mans cauſe in ſo great a matter as this? Would any man of wit have apologiz'd for his Friends with his, it may be's, it is poſſible, for any thing I can tell, and ſuch like words with which his Book abounds?

N. C.

Whatever his words are, he doubts not, as you may ſee, but that N. C. have a greater Senſe of his Majeſties mercy than C.

Why ſo?

N. C.

Becauſe they have been ſo great offenders.

Did ever any man hear ſuch Reaſons? Do we find, that they to whom much is forgiven commonly love very much? Are there no ungrateful wretches in the world? Or, Hath it not been the conſtant complaint, that the moſt are inſenſible or forgetful of benefits? And doth not one refuſal of mens de…es often blot out the memory of all former grants of grace and favour?

N. C.

You forget our Saviours words which he quotes.

As he doth a number of other Scriptures nothing to the p…poſe. Th…y to whom much is forgiven, will …e much, if they be truly penitent, as that woman in the Goſpel was; but, Who ſhall anſwer for all theſe mens Repentance, and that it is never to be repented of?

N. C.

Come, let this alone.

But pray let us ſee, whether this very man do not ſay thoſe things, which plainly ſtrike him out of the number of the Sober N. C.

N. C.

Will you make him ſay, or imply the King is a Tyrant?

You ſhall hear. How can they be Martyrs and killed all the day long, and the King be free from that imputation… Do they ſuffer any thing but according to the Laws? And whoſe are the Law… I beſeech you, but the Kings? Can the Parliament make Laws, or any body elſe, but only the Sovereign? See no… how this raſh and deſperate man hath intangled himſelf! To ſay the Laws are tyrannical, he confeſſes, is Treaſon or next to it, becauſe it implies the King to be … Tyrant, page 8. And yet before he hath done, he ſays in effect, they are tyra… nical; When he tells us the N. C. d… think that they, or ſome of them have been Martyrs by us, and are until now kille… all the day long, nay crucified by us kV. Pag. 229, 230.. And that it were no difficult thing to write a doleful Martyrology of their ſufferings, and ſuch as it may be would make my heart to ake lP. 231.. Would not a ſtranger think if he read this, that they lived in ſome Diocleſians days? Doth he not write, as if ſome Pagan Prince, as furious as Alifamfaron, reigned over us, in whoſe days there are ſo many Martyrs as would make a Volume? Nay, whoſe cruelty is ſo monſtrous, that he prolongs their torments, and will not diſpatch them quickly?

N. C.

Pray do not make your advantage of the word Martyrs, he only means ſufferers for their Conſciences, as he tells you in the place laſt cited.

Why then doth he uſe that word, if it be not to procure glory to you, and hatred to us? Cannot he ſpeak in ſafer Language that needs none of his Expoſitions? And what do you think the People underſtand by it, in whoſe mouth he firſt puts theſe phraſes of Martyrs and Martyrologies, and then at laſt tells them in Latine, what may be excepted againſt them? What doth he himſelf mean, when he tells of ſuch ſufferers as are killed all the day long? or, How ſhall the King avoid being thought another Pharaoh, if, as he ſuppoſes they are in an Houſe of bondage mP. 148.? Inſomuch that, as he tells us, with open mouth, both King and Parliament are clamour'd upon up and down the Nation for undoing the Families of many hundreds of godly Miniſters nP. 236.. Is not this a Sober Non-conformiſt; and a moſt excellent Apologiſt for his Brethren? I pitty him with all my ſoul, and wiſh I knew how to Apologize for him. The moſt that I can ſay is, that theſe are words of courſe, wherewith you were wont to rail in former times, and he hath not yet forgotten the old language. We rejoyce, ſaid the General Aſſembly oLetter of the Gen. Aſſembly to the Aſſembly of Divines, Auguſt, 1643., That Chriſt at laſt hath created a new thing in that Land, in calling together, not as before, a Prelatical Convocation to be Taskmaſters over the people of the Lord, but an Aſſembly of godly Divines, minding the things of the Lord. And the Independents ſaid the ſame to theſe godly Divines, or rather made them worſe than thoſe ungodly Egyptian Biſhops.—

N. C.

Pray forbear ſuch odious words.

Can you make any other Conſtruction of what they write? but as I was ſaying, the Independents upbraided them, pToleration juſtified, in Anſw. to the London Miniſters Letter to the Aſſembly, 1646.that they could not reſt ſatisfied with being free as their Brethren, but laboured to become Lords over them; which is juſt, ſaid they, as if the Iſraelites after the Egyptian bond…ge had become Taskmaſters in the land of Canaan one to another. But that it is more in them, who have been better inſtructed by our Saviour to d… to others, as they would that others ſhould do to them. Thus you talk… in time paſt, and if you had forgotten this Language, we would never have remembered it now. But ſince it is ſtill at your tongues end, and you perſwade one another you are ſtill in an houſe of Bondage; we muſt deſire you to be more reverend to your Sovereign, and uſe him a little better than you do your fellow Subjects.

N. C.

Doth not he acknowledge his clemency and benignity; and call him upon that ſcore, the breath of our noſtrils ſo far forth as we breathe, or hope to breathe in a free air?

If you read his words, he hath ſo many limitations, that they ſpoil all. They account him, ſaith he, in that reſpect to be, as it were, the breath of their noſtrils, ſo far forth as they breathe or hope to breathe in a free air. Would to God he would go to School ſomewhere, and learn to ſpeak plainer, or rather to hold his tongue. For this, and ſome other things, make many ſuſpect that all theſe fair words are but like Mercuries Pipe to lull Argus aſleep. If you breathe not in a free air, or if you have not hope of it, if he be not kind to you, and do not as yo… would have him; then away goes the breath of your noſtrils in a whi…, according to this Writer. And I muſt tell you, that notwithſtanding all the Clemency he here talks of and ſeems to be thankfull for, he plainly affirms before … concludes that there are thoſe out o… whoſe heads this conceit can hardly be beaten, That they had never enjoyed t… peace they have, but that God gave us tr… ble and interruption by the Plague, Fire, an… Sword qPag. 122., an… he adds; But a word to … wiſe. You underſtand his mind, its like better than I, who can make no ſenſ… of it but this; That they are behold… to Plague, Fire, and Sword, not to his M… jeſty for the peace they have enjoyed.

N. C.

You make very harſh Inte… pretation: ſure no body hath … thoughts.

This is no new thing, but it ha… of old been the way of ſuch diſſatisfied people to ſeek how they might work upon our diſtreſs: and then, notwithſtanding all their good words, to pretend a neceſſity they ſhould be favour'd. Thus, I remember, in Queen Elizabeths days, they made long Diſcourſes, to ſhew how they prayed for her Majeſty in the buſineſs of 88. though, as Dr. Sutcliff rAnſwer to a certain Libel Supplicatory, &c. Printed 1592. pag. 54.replyed, their tumultuous praying and prating in thoſe times did rather diſcourage than incourage any. And then at that very time did Martin frame his ſeditious Libels, and then others preached ſeditious Sermons; nay, Martin ſenior profeſſed that when the Enemy was ready to aſſail us, there were an hundred thouſand hands ready to ſubſcribe the Supplication of the P…ritans at home. Which, ſaith he, in good policy (we being in fear of outward force) might not be denyed nor diſcouraged.

N. C.

No more of Martin, I entreat you. We had too much of him the laſt time, and indeed have too much of this.

He may thank himſelf, who, like Chaucer's Cook, would needs be buſie where he needed not, taking much pains for which neither ſide will think themſelves beholden to him. The Obſervation of Solomon ſhould have been remembred by him, which might have kept him from medling with things he could not manage; That as a thorn goes into the hand of a Drunkard, ſo is a Parable in the mouth of a Fool, Prov. 26.9. For a Drunkard, (ſaith a famous perſon sBiſhop of Galloway in his Defence, 1614. Pag. 32.) taking a thorn into his hand to ſtrike his neighbour, hurts himſelf with it; and a fool pierces himſelf with the words wherewith he thinks to prick others.

N. C.

It is thought he hath prickt you to the quick in his next exception, againſt your Expoſition, of the Demonſtration of the Spirit and of Power.

I have heard indeed, that many of you think, he hath foil'd me there; nay, given me a deadly wound that cannot be healed. Alas! Good men. I pitty his Ignorance, very much, and their credulity. If bold Bayard (to uſe the words of a learned Prelate tBiſhop White Anſwer to a nameleſs Pamphlet, 1637. Pag. 18.) were armed with David's ſpirit and fortitude, who could ſtand before him? But if h… whole ſtrength conſiſt in wording and facing only, What can it avail an Ape to concei… himſelf to be as ſtrong as a Lyon? Though he make a ſhew, and fall on, as if be would tear all in pieces; he will foo… diſcover his weakneſs, when you come to grapple with him. I will cloſe with him therefore, if you pleaſe, and try the force of this confident Gentleman. And I will paſs by his miſ-repreſenting my words, becauſe it is a thing ſo uſual with him, that he muſt have a pardon for it of courſe.

N. C.

He will never believe it, unleſs you ſhew it, at leaſt now that you firſt charge it on him.

If you will have it ſo, then obſerve that he tells you, uPag. 9.I doubt that Miniſter is not ſpiritually inlightned, who expounds thoſe words otherwiſe than of the wonderful gifts of the Holy Ghoſt. Which is falſe; for I ſpeak there xP. 5. of Fr. Debate.of ſome other words of the Apoſtle, viz. the ſpirits ſearching the deep things of God which the natural man cannot diſcern. But, though it be a bad Omen to ſtumble on the very Threſhold; yet, this is a trifle in compare with the reſt that follows. For firſt there is not one of thoſe Authors he cites, as far as I can diſcern (except the firſt whom we will examin by and by) who underſtands by Power any thing elſe than the gift of Miracles: and that was the thing I am there ſpeaking of (though he, as his manner is, ſlips it over) Powerful, not Spiritual Preaching. By Spirit, indeed, ſome Interpreters underſtand ſomething elſe beſides the reſt of extraordinary gifts which I mentioned.

N. C.

Why do you ſay ſome, the ſtream of Interpreters runs contrary to you.

I know he ſaith ſo, p. 10. and it is a remarkable inſtance of his ignorant boldneſs. For where, I pray you, doth this ſtream begin? If you go up toward the Spring-head (if I may ſo ſpeak) and follow the ſtream all along from the Apoſtles time (as high as we can find it) the current will prove to be againſt him. But his ſtream begins at Peter Martyr, who is the moſt ancient Writer that he hath peruſed. An excellent perſon indeed; but we ought not to go to him as the Fountain of our Knowledge, not think our ſelves learned when we can alledg his Authority. For this will be to make our ſelves as ridiculous as T.W. who P…eaching about the Day of Judgment, thus concludes his uſe of Perſwaſ…on to Chriſtians to believe this Truth. Peter M…rtyr tells us, That ſome of the Heathen Poets have written, that there are certain Judges appointed (Minos, Radamanthus, and others) to examine and puniſh offenders after this life yMorning Exerciſe Methadiſed, Serm. 25. p. 615. 1660.. Whereby I perceive Peter Martyr is the top of theſe two mens learning, both for the Ancient Truth, and the ancient Fables. And yet I believe T. W. is not well skilled in Peter Martyr, but added his others of his own head; for we never read but of one judge more, whoſe name, if you will know it, was Aeocus: And before I have done, I ſhall make this man alſo as ſick of Peter Martyr, as he was when he vomited (ſave in your preſence) in my very face.

N.C.

But what ſay you to Dr. Featly, who leads up the front of the battle?

I ſee his Name, but where ſhall I find his words?

N. C.

In the Aſſemblies Annotations on the Bible.

The Authors of thoſe, he tells us not without a brag, were N.C. p. 55. Now I am ſure the Doctor was none: and therefore either here or there he hath overſhot himſelf. I am afraid he will fall in love hereafter with that Figure which is ſo odious to him; and if you pleaſe, we will allow him the benefit of it, and let him make himſelf whole, with one of his hard words, call'd Synecdoche Let us here what Dr. Featly ſays.

N. C.

He preached ſo, that his Doctrine wrought powerfully in the hearts of his Hearers. This he gives us for the Apoſtles meaning.

But ſecond thoughts are uſually better than the firſt, and he immediately adds (which this man ſuppreſſes) or, by the Demonſtration of the Spirit and Power, he means the evident Confirmation of his Doctrine by the gifts of the Holy Ghoſt, and the ſigns and wonders which he wrought among them. And this indeed is the ancient Expoſition, to which he was pleaſed to Preface with that of ſome of the modern Writers. For Origen—

N.C.

Will you take no notice of Docto. Hammond whom he alſo quotes?

There is no need, if, as this man tells us, his Expoſition be the ſame with …igen's: unleſs it be to ſhew how lamely …e reports it. For his Opinion is, that by the Demonſtration of the Spirit may be meant, not only the proof of Chriſtian Religion from the old Prophecies (which, I muſt tell you, was by an infallible Spirit beſtowing an extraordinary gift, call'd Propheſying, and mention'd by me in my ſhort Paraphraſe) but alſo the deſcent of the Spirit on our Saviour at his Baptiſm accompanied with the voice from Heaven, together with the Spirits deſcending afterward on the Apoſtles, and by their Impoſition of hands on others alſo. This together with the power of doing Miracles, he tells you, may be lookt upon as the Demonſtration of the Truth of the Goſpel, and be the thing that is here meant. I can ſee therefore no difference between him and me. As for Origen, I ſhall go for his Opinion only to himſelf. And I remember very well that he tells us, over and over again, there is a Demonſtration belonging to the Chriſtian Religion, which is proper and peculiar to it ſelf: A Demonſtration more Divine (as he ſpeaks zLib. 1. contra Celſum.) than that of the Greeks by Logick and Syllogiſtical Diſcourſe (in other places he adds, or by Rhetorick) and it is this which the Apoſtle calls the Demonſtration of the Spirit and of Power. Of the Spirit by Prophecies which were ſufficient aforeign, &c.to work faith in him that met with them, eſpecially in thoſe things which concern Chriſt: and of Power, by the prodigious, and aſtoniſhing works; which were certainly done, as appears from this Argument among many others, that there are ſome footſteps of them remaining among thoſe who live according to the Will of the Word. Where by Propheſie, if you underſtand barely the ancient Scriptures, it is plain they were not ſufficient to work faith in thoſe that met with them, who were firſt to be perſwaded by other means to belive them to be Divine Revelations. And therefore it is moſt reaſonable to comprehend under that word, the New Revelations, or the Infallible Spirit of Propheſying in the Apoſtles, interpreting the holy Prophets in any Language whatſoever; which accompanied with Miracles and all the other gifts, was a Demonſtration beyond all other of the truth of their Doctrine. If we look further into him, we ſhall better underſtand him; for in the third Book againſt Celſus bPag. 152. Edit. Cantabr., he repeats the ſame again, and more plainly than before. The Preaching, ſaith he, at the firſt founding of Chriſtian Religion was with a cforeign.power of perſwading and bowing mens hearts, but not ſuch an one, as was among thoſe that profeſſed the wiſdom of Plato, or any other men who had no more than Hum…ne Nature. But dforeign.the demonſtration by the Apoſtles of Jeſus, being given from God, was credible by the Spirit and Power: by which means their word, or rather Gods, ran ſpeedily and ſwiftly. And again in the beginning of the Sixth Book. eAlledging the ſame words.It is not ſufficient that the thing is true, and worthy of credit, which is ſpoken, unleſs there be a certain power given from God to him that ſpeaks, &c. which conſiſted not in meer words ſure, but in deeds; the Spirit of God working in the hearers hearts by the means of thoſe miraculous gifts. You may find this place cited twice more in his Philocalia fCap. 1. & Cap. 4., where he expounds it to be a Caeleſtial, or rather Supercaeleſtial power, whereby their Preaching was demonſtrated to be true. All this makes it plain, that he underſtood the word Demonſtration in a proper ſenſe, for an evident proof of Chriſtian Religion, and that it was nothing elſe but the Supercaeleſtial gifts wherewith they were endowed. And by this you may ſee I had ſome ground for my confidence, having obſerved theſe things long before I wrote my Book. But if you proceed further to S…. Chryſoſtom, he contracts the ſenſe, and determines the words wholly to Miracles. Tell me, ſaith he, who is there, that ſeeing the dead riſe, the Devils driven out, would not receive the faith? but becauſe there are cheating Wonders (as thoſe of Juglers) St. Paul removes this ſuſpicion; for he doth not ſimply ſay Power, but firſt the Spirit, then Power: ſignifying that the things which were done were ſpiritual *Beza follows this Expoſition, making Spirit and Power, one thing expreſſed by two words; ſo Eſtius alſo among the Papiſts.. Oecumenius writes to the ſame purpoſe; and Theodoret plainly makes them both one. The Wonder-working of the Spirit gforeign.witneſſed to the Preaching: and the Apoſtle moſt appoſitely joyned with the weakneſs of their ſuffering condition, the Power of the Spirit. And ſo St. Hierom, He would not diſpute with them, leaſt they ſhould think he came to teach them ſome new Philoſophy, but he ſhewed them Wonderful Works and Miracles. To whom you may add St. Ambroſe; Since fooliſh things, ſaith he, dreſſed up with words (though weak in virtue) appear as if they were wiſe; God would not have his Preaching commended by the Teſtimony of words, but of Power; that the fooliſhneſs of the Word (as it was judged) might demonſtrate it ſelf by the deeds of wiſe Men, being founded after a Spiritual Manaer.

N. C.

It will tire us to follow the ſtream any further, and I ſee already which way it runs.

I may ſave my ſelf the labour, if this bold Undertaker will believe Maſter Calvin (whom he much commends, but cares not to imitate) who, as became a knowing and an honeſt man, expreſsly acknowledges that Moſt reſtrain theſe words to Miracles hDemonſtrationem ſpiritus & pot. quam pleri que ad miracula reſtringunt.. Why do you ſhrug?

N. C.

I ſee what is like to become of my good Friend Philagathus.

Never trouble your ſelf. He can prove, if need be, that Moſt ſignifies few or none. Muſculus indeed tells us, that this word Power in the Evangelical Hiſtory, is in a manner Alway, uſed for Miracles: and under theſe two words he comprehends all that the Spirit wrought in and by the Apoſtles, and their Preaching. Which, methinks, is excellently expreſſed by Arias Montanus: He proved what he ſa…. by the manifeſt power of the Holy Ghoſt given by Chriſt to thoſe that believed, and by the efficacy of healings, and other Divine Signs. Nay, his great Friend Peter Martyr, whom he makes us believe he conſulted, is pleaſed to ſay little leſs than Mr. Calvin, that there are very Many who reſtrain theſe words to Miracles and Prodigies, which Paul wrought iPermulti ſunt, qui haec ad miracula contrahant & prodigia, quae Paulus ed… bat, &c.What he thinks of their opinion, you ſhall hear preſently. Let us firſt hear what Face hath to ſay to me. The ſtream of Interpreters run an… ther way kSober Anſw p. 10.It is the ſenſe wherein moſt Divines do conſtrue it lIb.You have the confidence to oppoſe the body of Interpreters mPag. 11.; and give us an uncouth and leſs acknowledged Interpretation nPag. 122.: an Interpretation that deſerved not to be once mentioned in oppoſition to others oP. 197. and pag. 279. the General current of Interpreters.: Bravely ſaid, bold Bayard! and like a blind B. that fears no colours! Stand to… ſtoutly, and rub thy fore-head hard; for w…thin that skull of thine is more contain'd than in all the world beſide. A whole Body of Interpreters is lodged there, which Mr. Calvin himſelf never ſaw. There is a depth of Learning, that no body knows, running in the wide Chanel of thy Brain.—

N.C.

You had better have ſaid, the wide Crack in his brain.

We have done with that merriment. And you may rather ſuſpect … crack in his Conſcience. For how durſt an honeſt man preſume to abuſe the world on this faſhion? Who, but a man of a debauched Conſcience, would repeat a thing ſo often, and with ſuch aſſurance of which he had no competent knowledg? How will you excuſe his Hypocriſie who commends his own Moderation and modeſty, in this and another Book, and yet takes upon him publ…ckly to contradict and controle another without any ground? nay, to diſparage him all he could, and charge him with vain confidence pSir, this vain confidence of yours, doth juſtly provoke me, &c. p. 11. & p. 279. bewail your peremptorineſs, &c.and peremptorineſs, when he himſelf had no other ſupport, but wrote groſs untruths out of his own imagination? Methinks he ſhould hide his head for ſhame, and not appear in the open ſtreets; unleſs he be of the Sect of that Philoſopher in Lucian *In his Sale of Philoſophers., who profeſſed to teach men above all things to be impudent and bold, to bark at every thing without diſtinction, to throw away all modeſty, and blot all bluſ…ing quite out of th… face. For this is the Art ſaid he, to arrive at glory in a more compendious way than by Education, Study, and ſuch like trifles. If thou beeſt an Ideot, a Maſon …r Bricklayer, it is no hindrance why thou ſ…u…dſt not be admired, if thou haſt boldneſs enough, and canſt rail with a good grace.

N. C.

He is none of thoſe, I'le paſs my word for him: though he be a little too forward.

A little too forward! very gently ſpoken, and like his great moderation, when he acknowledges any fault in his Friends. If he be capable of amendment, I will make him leſs forward, for I have not yet done with him.

N. C.

You will be too tedious.

I cannot help it. I muſt make a thing as plain as A B C to him, or he will never ſee it. I pray deſire him to conſider where his eyes, or his honeſty were, when he told us that Peter Martyr and Marlorate, both do find fault with them who reſtrain the meaning of tha… place to Miracles, and ſpeak as if they did miſs the main ſcope and intent of the Holy Ghoſt in that Text qPag. 9.. Let him waſh his eyes and look once more (if he ever lookt at all) into Peter Martyr, and bluſh—

N. C.

Why ſhould you Queſtion his conſulting P. Martyr?

Becauſe he is ſo far from paſſing any cenſure on thoſe who are of this opinion, that after he had told us, Very many reſtrain theſe things to Miracles; he adds immediately, which perhaps is not beſide the truth rPermulti ſunt qui haec ad miracula contrahant, &c. quod ſo;—taſſis non eſt a vero alienum.. This makes me think that your forward Phil. made a ſhew of greater learning than he was guilty of, and that he went not ſo high as Peter Martyr where the ſtream is againſt him, and a very great one too, but contented himſelf with Marlorate alone, as if he were ſome Sea into which the ſtream of Interpreters emptied it ſelf. He indeed thus reports the ſenſe of P. Martyr, Many reſtrain theſe to Miracles, but the former ſenſe agrees better with the purpoſe of Paul sPermulti haec ad miracula reſtringunt, ſed prior ſenſus inſtituto Pauli melius quadrat.. But he ought not to have truſted this Abridger of Books, who as he tells us nothing out of St. Ambroſe and Oecumenius, (which are two of the Authors he gathers out off, and are of a contrary mind to him) ſo he wrongs Peter Martyr, who doth not ſay, there is another ſenſe that better agrees, &c. but only adds after the words laſt cited, But I more willingly take in that energy whereby the Spirit ſpoke through his holy breaſt tSed ego lubentius complector foreign quâ Spiritus, &c., &c. What think you, is this a man fit to write Books, and inform you in the truth, who takes things on truſt, and at the ſecond hand? How many things, may you juſtly conceive, doth he obtrude on you in the Pulpit for certain truths, which are notorious falſities, who thus in Print belies Authors, and runs away before he knows their ſenſe? Nay, openly tells you, that the Moſt ſay a thing, when one of the beſt Expoſitors in the world, in the confeſſion of all men uThey are his own words of Mr. Calvin, pag. 121., if you will believe himſelf, affirms that the Moſt ſay quite contrary.

N.C.

You muſt conſider that he wants Books, as he tells you in the Preface.

Then he ought not to have been ſo peremptory, as if he had read all Authors: and what he bids me do xBewail your peremptorineſs &c. ſpeaking of this place, pag. 279., is become his own duty, who ought to do a ſevert Penance for his Preſumption, his vai… Oſtentation of Learning where he had none, and his deceiving the poor people with mere wording and facing (as was ſaid before) againſt a notorious truth.

N. C.

I am ſorry he did not repair to ſome Bookſellers ſhop, which I ſuppoſe, are all furniſht with Calvin, M…ſculus, and Peter Martyr.

How ſhould he write ſuch a Book in ſix weeks time and leſs, if he had been at that pains? He hath a better Shop for his purpoſe in his own Brains, where he can furniſh himſelf with … ſort of Ware, without any trouble … all. There are Comments and Hiſtori… good ſtore, and a certain Worm of ſuc… an admirable property, that it doth no… ſo much feed on them, as feed them an… nouriſh them continually. And the truth is, I do not ſee what good thoſe Authors, you mention, would have done him, had he gone to conſult them. For either he is ſo giddy-headed, or loves ſo much to pervert mens ſenſe, that he ſcarce ever conceives any thing aright, but abuſes others as well as me. Marlorate himſelf cannot find fair dealing with him, who ſpeaks in milder terms than he, as you have ſeen; and being but a reporter of other mens ſenſe, ought not to have been alledged at all diſtinct from them. But he had a mind to make a noiſe with as many learned Names and words as he could find, having little elſe to credit himſelf withal. For why, I beſeech you, did he give us Eraſmus his gloſs on the place (if you can believe him) in Latine only, when all the reſt is Engliſh? For my part, I believe he could not conſtrue his words, nor underſtand the true meaning of them, but put them in to vapour withal. You may know, if you pleaſe, that they are not his gloſs upon the place, but only upon one word, not at all to our buſineſs. For they are not in his Paraphraſe, but in his Annotations, where he is not expounding the words, Spirit and Power, but that, which we render Demonſtration: which he would not have ſo tranſlated; but, with the Vulgar, Oſtenſion, or rather Oſtentatien, i.e. ſhewing and declaring, yPaulus foreign … dec…t…tur Spiritus Apoſtolicus.ſo the Apoſtle calls it. …aith he, For as much as the Apoſtolical Spirit is in the thing it ſelf repreſented and …e…tared. What is this to his purpoſe? I …ake …o doubt he himſelf could not tell, but, to make a vain ſhew of Learning, down it went without any meaning.

N. C.

Pray Engliſh it for us.

So I have; and this is the meaning, as far as I can judg, that the Spirit of the Apoſtles was ſufficiently ſhewn and made manifeſt by it ſelf; and there needed no other proof to declare it to be Divine. Which makes ſo much to my purpoſe (for how could it ſhew it ſelf to mens ſatisfaction, but by the Miraculous gifts?) that if he had underſtood it, he would have thrown it away. And let it ſtand aſide, if you will; for another reaſon which he might have found in Beza, an ordinary Book, who confutes this Expoſition of the word zforeign.as not appoſite to the place; it properly ſignifying, ſaith he, a proof which renders a thing evident, or demonſtrates it from certain and neceſſary reaſons. Such were the Supernatural gifts of the Holy-ghoſt: But the making men of our belief, and perſwading them to receive what we ſay, is no certain and neceſſary proof, that we ſpeak nothing but the Truth. No man can affirm that, who conſiders any thing; and therefore the Apoſtle ſpeaks of ſuch a ſenſible demonſtration or proof; as I mentioned, without which they could not know certainly that there was a Divine Spirit in the Apoſtles. So the word is plainly expounded, Act. 2.22. Jeſus of Nazareth, a man approved *foreign denu… …ated to you to be ofamong you, by Miracles, Wonders and Signs, which God did by him, &c. From whence I gother, that the thing whereby he approved himſelf to them, or demonſtrated he was of God; was the very ſame whereby the Apoſtles demonſtrated his Religion, viz. Miracles, Wonders and Signs; all the gifts of the Holy Ghoſt.

N. C.

But do not the Dutch Annotators expound it otherwiſe.

They ſeem to underſtand by Spirit, the ſecret operation of the Spirit in mens hearts, though by Power the ſame that I do. In which they follow Eraſmus in his Paraphraſe: and Theophylact hath ſomething to the ſame effect, though he preſently betake himſelf to the Interpretation of St. Chryſoſtom before named. But how an inclination to believe a thing, or a perſwaſion wrought in me of it, ſhould be a Demonſtration, i. e. a proof that the thing is true which I am perſwaded of, or inclined unto, is, as I told you, paſt my underſtanding. And therefore having ſuch good company, I ſhall believe, notwithſtanding all his barking, that they were the extraordinary viſible effects of the Spirit either in our Saviour or his Apoſtles, or others who believed, which were the Demonſtration, by the means of which the Holy Ghoſt convinced the underſtandings, and bowed the wills of unbelievers to become Chriſtians.

N. C.

I thought Grotius only had be… on your ſide: and Philagathus tells us, he perceives, if Grotius be for you, as … it were God himſelf, you are ready to ſay who ſhall be againſt you aPag. 10.. As if y… were bound to ſwear whatſoever Grotius bIb.ſaith.

I remember his words; and they are another notable Demonſtration of the Hypocritical modeſty, that is, the ſhameleſs boldneſs of this man, who will venture to ſay any thing, merely out of his own head, which he thinks may diſgrace me; and indeavour without any proof, to make the world believe, that I pin my Faith on Grotius his ſleeve, and make him in ſtead of a God. This he repeats I cannot tell how often, (as he ſhall hear anon with a witneſs) and, I will repeat it too, only out of that great forge, where the reſt of his Book was wrought, his own imagination. For I proteſt ſincerely, it is more than I know, if that be his Interpretation which I gave you: nor did I in all my life, to my beſt remembrance, conſult with him about it. Though, I muſt tell you, if I had; I ſhould in Mr. Baxter's judgment have conſulted one of the five moſt judicious Commentators that ever wrote on the Scriptures cBeza, Grotius, Pilcator, Muſculus, Deodat, Five of the moſt judicious Commentators, I think, that ever wrote on the ſacred Scriptures. Second Poſtſcript. af…er his Diſput. about Right to the Sacraments, p. 539.. But as judicious as he is, in his opinion, I would have you know that I would never have followed him, without more reaſon than his bare affirmation. The naked truth is, that the very propriety of the words, and the drift of the Apoſtles diſcourſe carried me, without any help, to this Expoſition. Spirit every body knows who hath ſtudied ſignifies commonly extraordinary gifts. If he will not be at the pains to examine it, I will quore him an Autority for it, which he often vaunts of; and that is Maſter Baxter: who tells you, that he who will obſerve carefully the language of the Holy Ghoſt, ſhall find this word, Spirit, or Holy Ghoſt, is moſt uſually in the New Teſtament taken for the extraordinary gifts of that Age dVnreaſonableneſs of Infidelity. p. 12.. As for the word Power you heard what Muſculus ſaid. But beſide, I have noted in my ſmall Obſervation, that when our Saviour was ſent into the World, he was anointed with the Holy Ghoſt and with Power, Acts 10.38. and that he told his Apoſtles, as the Father ſent him, ſo he would ſend them, Joh. 20.21. From whence I concluded that they were to be anointed alſo with the Holy Ghoſt (or the Spirit) and with Power, as he had been. And ſo they were; for as at his Baptiſm the Spirit of God deſcended on him like a Dove (Mat. 3.16.) ſo on the day of Pentecoſt, which was the day of their Baptiſm (Acts 1.5.) they were all filled with the Holy Ghoſt, propheſying and ſpeaking with tongues (as the Spirit gave them utterance) and preſently working a great Miracle upon the Creeple, and with great power giving witneſs of his Reſurrection eSee Act. 2. v. 4.17.25. Act 3. v 2 &c. Act. 4. v. 33.. This I thought was the Demonſtration of the Spirit and of Power, whereby our Lord was approved and demonſtrated in his life time to be the Son of God; and by which afterward they proved his Reſurrection from the dead, and ſo the Truth of his Religion. Spirit I take to comprehend, the gift of Tongues, Propheſie, Interpretation of Tongues, and all the reſt, except doing Miracles, which in Scripture is called by the name of Power. Thus I obſerve they are diſtinguiſhed, Gal. 3.5. He that miniſtreth the Spirit, and worketh Miracles among you, doth he it by the works of the Law? &c. where all gifts beſides Miracles are called the Spirit. And the Author to the Hebrews ſaith, that God did bear witneſs to the Apoſtles Preaching, both with Signs, Wonders, and divers Miracles, and alſo with Gifts or Diſtributions of the Holy-Ghoſt according to his own will. Theſe, and ſuch like conſiderations were ſufficient to perſwade me to incline to that ſenſe of the words which I gave you. But when I attended to the ſcope of the Apoſtles diſcourſe, I had no doubt left in me: nothing ſo well agreeing with it (whatſoever this man prates) as that Interpretation. For the Spirit and Power is that which proved the Truth of the Apoſtles Preaching better than any Syllogiſms, or artificial Orations could do, which he therefore calls a Demonſtration, in oppoſition to thoſe ways of perſwaſion which deſerved not that name. Now what ſhould that be which was the Reaſon and Cauſe of Belief; Since it is certain, the Spirit did not inwardly perſwade men to believe without any reaſon? Could ſome me… belief of the Doctrine prove, that others ought to believe? They might ſtill juſtly ask, how thoſe men came by their faith; what was the cauſe and groun… of it? If they ſaid the Spirit perſwaded them, How could they tell there was ſuch a Spirit, or that a divine power wrought in them, unleſs they ſaw it by its effects, which were the Demonſtration to Unbelievers? If you ſay, it was known by the change of mens lives, the exception againſt that, as no ſufficient proof of Chriſtianity, is, becauſe many who believed were not throughly changed, but ſtill lived ungodlily, even i… the Corinthian Church: There was ſome change alſo wrought in ſeveral men by mere Philoſophers; and among the Jews, before the Preaching of Chriſt, there were many very good men and women. If by Spirit, you will at laſt ſay, is meant the ancient Propheſies, (without the extraordinary Interpretation by the Holy Ghoſt, which appeared many ways to be in the Apoſtles) that will not do neither as you have heard, unleſs you will imagine the Apoſtles preached to the Jews only: for that would have been to alledg one unknown thing for the proof of another; and as if we ſhould offer thoſe for Sureties, for whoſe credit we need Certificates and Pledges. The Queſtion, I ſay, would ſtill have remained, How do you demonſtrate thoſe Propheſies to be Divine Revelations on which we ought to rely?—

N. C.

No more words. I am ſatisfied.

And you are ſatisfied I hope that this is a man not worthy to be credited, and that inſtead of Philagathus, a name borrowed I think from Mr. Dents plain mans pathway to Heaven, he deſerves to be called Antilegon; *The name of another perſon in that Dialogae.a meer Caviller and Contradicter, that loves to wrangle and ſcold and gainſay right or wrong. The very Spirit of the ancient Sophiſters whom Plato cals by that name of Contradicters and oppoſers eIn ſophiſta. foreign., & he ſeems to me to be ſuch a maſter in the Faculty, that he can ſhut his eies when he pleaſes, and fall a quarrelling with any thing that comes in his way. But I hope after this Diſcovery of his tolly, he will ceaſe to prate and outface, and labour to prove what he ſaith: otherwiſe I have ſome hope that none who read this will give him any credit, unleſs it be perhaps ſome goſlings of his own broo…ng fThey are Bp. Whites words to a nameleſs pamphleter. p. 118.. Be not ang y, for I aſſure you I have not the lea… ſpark of…r, nor was he able with all his ſcurrility to provoke me to kindle againſt him, all the time I read his Book.

N. C.

You boaſt a little too much.

I muſt ſay it, that he and you may know how much I contemn ſuch oppoſers, who may provoke one to laughter, but not to anger. No not though they ſhould be ſo unmannerly and clowniſhly deſpightful as this rude ſcholar of that Cynick Philoſopher I named is, who profeſſes to have vomited his gall, or, as he calls it, delivered his ſtomach in my face.

N. C.

It ſticks in your ſtomach ſure, you mention it ſo oft.

He loves repetitions, which makes me lay it in his diſh again. But, as I was going to tell you, it immediately … be to my mind theſe words of Mr. Burrough: gVindication againſ… Mr. Edwards. p. 3., and that was all the hurt it old me: There is an odious diſeaſe in Nature, caſting up the excrements at the Mouth; which is no leſſe noiſome than dangerous, and therefore the Phyſicians call it, Miſerere mei Deus. Thus exulcerated minds affected with the like malady in Morality, being ſurcharged with ſuperfluity of choler and malice, and not able to contain, break forth into diſtemper of words, and pour it out in unſavory language; ſuch we muſt leave to a miſcrere; and if they will not pray of themſelves, we muſt do it for them, and ſay, Lord have mercy on them. That's all I have to ſay about this to your cholerick Antilegon. And if you have a deſire, ſince they ſay ſome hold him for a wit, that he ſhould continue to diſcharge himſelf in this manner for the ſervice of the cauſe, I am ſo little concerned about it, that you may put forth another Petition, and never trouble me, in the language which ſome of you uſed againſt another Gentleman; that he may have free leave and liberty to run at the Mouth (though it be not natural that excrements ſhould come up ſtairs) as long as he pleaſes; to ſcrible ſtill without check or controul, becauſe as it is humbly conceived) all the danger of him is want of vent; and the more, he is prohibited the more perhaps he will do that which he is forbidd… by Lawful Authority; and the more … will think himſelf conſiderable, if oppoſes by them whom he rails at hTo the Supream Authority of the Nation the humble Petition of certain peaceable people againſt &c. 1659..

N. C.

Why do you then meddle with him?

You forced me to it, by your continual talking and urging of me; otherwiſe I aſſure you I ſhould have deſpiſed him and let him alone.

N. C.

I confeſs I had a mind to her what you could ſay about this Dem… ſtration of the Spirit and of Power, becauſe it was commonly ſaid you forſoo… the General current of Divines in yo… expoſition.

Juſt ſo Heshuſius dealt with goo… Melancthon, whom he boldly accuſed of Blaſphemy, and ſaid, he treacherouſly and prophanely plaid or made ſport with the Scriptures, becauſe he preferred the moſt antient writers of the Church, before his Authority iSo Paulus Ebetus tels us in his preface before his Comments on this Epiſtle to the Corinth.. And you have not forgot, I ſuppoſe, what ſome ſaid of Mr. Baxter, becauſe he left the modern opinion concerning the ſin againſt the Holy Gheſt, though he endeavoured to eſtabliſh a better in the room of it. But if it will do them any pleaſure ſtill to bawl and make a noiſe, I will give my ſelf no further trouble about this matter, in which I have been too long already. And therefore I will not give my ſelf the like liberty in ripping up every one of his groſs errors and vain braggs, which if I ſhould carefully ſpread before your face, ſo that you might plainly diſcern them, it would make a volumn five times as big as his. Which is ſuch a fardel of Ignorance and impudence, of diſingenuity, ſpight and evill ſurmiſings, of ſuch falſe dealing, downright lying, pervertings of my meaning, wrangling without cauſe, vanity, preſumption, abuſe of holy Scripture, idle ſhifts and excuſes for faults, that I never yet ſaw the like in ſo great abundance in any book in my life, nor I think ever ſhall.

N.C.

A very high charge, proceeding it will be thought from your vain-confidence and the height of your pride, for which he hath given you ſo many buffets.

I feel them not; nor have any thing the worſe opinion of my ſelf than I had; though I think he hath told you of my Pride an hundred times. This is no more than his predeceſſors in this Art of reviling have charged their neighbours withal, when they deſerve… better uſage. There was one, for inſtance, that would needs prove from Mr. Baxters writings (as this man labours to do from mine) that he was hypocritically proud. So he himſelf tells us kAppendix to the 5 Diſp. of right to the Sacraments. p. 484. Preface before his Confeſſion of Faith., and you ſhall have my anſwer at preſent in his words. I will by the help of God ſearch my heart for this ſin of pride, and deſire him to do the like, and ſee that he be well acquit from uſurping Gods prerogative, and from ſlandering his Brother. 2. How came I to be ſo unhappy that only thoſe that know me not load me with this charge, and never any of my Brethren told me of it to my face? 3. It will be worth ſuch mens labour to ſearch how much pride may lie in their impatience of Contradiction; and being ſuch, that a man knows not how to ſpeak to them, for fear of being contume…ious in withdrawing or not giving them the honour they expect. I remember h… St. Auſtin excuſed a friend of his to a man of ſuch a Spirit, and with a fear leaſt after all his caution he ſhould ſeem contumelious himſelf in that Apology. I hear thou complaineſt of Memoratus a Brother that he anſwered ſomething contumeliouſly to thee, which I beſeech thee not to account a reproach: When as I am certain that it did not proceed from a proud M…nd. For I know that Brother of mine; if he ſpeak any thing with greater fervency for his Faith, and for the Charity of the Church than thy gravity would willingly hear, that is not to be called contumely, but confidence and aſſurance of the tru… of what he ſaid. For he …eſired to reaſon and confer, not to fawn and flatter. In ſuch a confidence, which I feel ſtill unſhaken in my mind after all his batteries; I will proceed, take it …ow he pleaſe, to make good my charge: by giving only ſome notorious inſtances of all thoſe things, and ſeveral others, as they occur to my thoughts; For we need not drink up all the Sea to know that it is ſalt, as Irenaus ſpeaks; nor is it fit to trouble the world with too long a diſcourſe about one mans follies. And if you pleaſe we will begin with his Ignorance.

N. C.

It will be a very ungrateful diſcourſe.

Not more to you than to me, who heartily wiſh there were a way of curing Ulcers without unripping them firſt and laying them open. But I look upon this man as ſo empty, and yet ſo confident and ſelf-conceited, that there is no way to do him good, but by laying him naked before himſelf. And I doubt not alſo but to make my diſcourſe very profitable to others who will give it the hearing; for he that corrects one may mend an hundred.

N. C.

Proceed then.

You have had ſome taſt already of his skill. St. Taffee will be a witneſs of it as long as he lives. But to take him down ſtill lower, and keep him from medling hereafter with things beyond his reach, I ſhall give you a more full demonſtration of his Ignorance, and make it manifeſt that, of a Scholar, he is the worſt Horſeman that ever beſtrid a Book (you will give me leave to allude to his own Rhetorick) having rid himſelf clean out of the ſaddle▪ And ſince Divinity ſeems to be h… prime Profeſſion, we will begin with… principal point of it; and that is juſtifying Faith and good works. Abo… which things he tells us how excellently Mr. dp. 18.Baxter hath wrote: and becauſe he hath done ſo well, imagine they are all ſound in thoſe points. Whe… as he himſelf, good man, either do… not know what Mr. Baxter ſaith, … elſe is not of his Mind. From whence conclude that a man may as eaſily be … Antinomian, and not know it (whatſoeve… he ſaith to the contrary) as he ho… dangerous opinions about Faith, and not know it.

Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 3, Discourse (1 of 5)

p. 1A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate.

A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate.