A General View of Papistry, Book 2 · Controversy 8 – Controversy 9
THE EIGHT CONTROVERSIE concerning Angels.
THis controuersie containeth 3. questions. First, of the Hierarchie and holy degrees of Angels: Secondly, of their ministerie and office: Thirdly, of the worship and inuocation of Angelles.
THE FIRST QVESTION CONCERning the Celestiall Hierarchye, or degrees of Angelles.
THis question hath like wise two partes: First, how many degrees there be of Angels, Secondly, whether Michael be the Prince of the Angels.
THE FIRST PART OF THE DIVERS orders and degrees of Angelles.
The Papists.
THey do boldely affirme, that there are nine orders of Angelles, and those that do doubt of it, they charge with infidelitie and blasphemie: There are first principalities, then potestates. 3. powers. 4. dominations: Eph. 1.21. 5. there are thrones. Coloss. 1.16. vntounto these ad 4. other, Cherubim, Seraphim, Angels, Archangels: so hauehave we nine in all. Rhemist. annot. Ephe. 1 sect. 4.
The Protestants.
AS of the diuersitie of names we gather, that there are diuerse orders, so to error 1 enquire of them more subtilly, to define their number, and appoint their degrees: it is a point not onelyonly of foolish curiositie, but also of vngodly and daungerous rashnes, ex Caluino. Fulk. ibid.
Augustine sayth, Quid inter se distent quatuor illa vocabula, throni, dominationes, principatus, potestates, dicant qui possunt, si tamen possunt probare quod dicunt, ego me ista ignorare confiteor. What difference there is betweene these foure words, Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, Powers, let them tell vsus, that be able, so they can proue that they tell vsus: for my part, I confesse I knowe it not. August. Enchiridion. cap. 58. With Augustine therefore we confesse, that as it appeareth by these seuerall names, there are distinct orders of Angels: so how many there be, and how they are distinguished, the scripture hath not reuealed vntounto vsus: and it were curiositie for vsus to enquire: We shall then know, when we shall be like vntounto the Angels.
THE SECOND PART, WHETHER MICHAEL be the prince of the Angels.
The Papists.
error 2 THey say, that in heauen beside God himselfe, there is another commander and captaine of the Angels, euen Michael the prince of the Angels: which place the diuel had in the beginning before his fall. For as the scripture saith, the diuell and his angels, meaning, that all euill angels are subiect vntounto him: so by Michael and his angels, we vnderstand all good angels, that are likewise subiect to him, Apocal. 12.7. Rhemist. Bellarm. de pontif. lib. 1. cap. 9.
The Protestants.
FIrst, Michael in that place signifieth Christ, who is Lord of the angels; for the angels cannot be sayd to be any other Michaels angels, but only the angels of God and Christ: Fulk. ibid. This is also proued by the text, vers. 10. Now is come saluation, the kingdome of our God, and the power of his Christ, for the accuser of the brethren is cast out. Here he is called Christ, which before is named Michael. Augustine also so expoundeth it, Michaëlem intellige Christum: By Michael vnderstand Christ: Homil. 9. in Apocalyps.
Secondly, it followeth not, that as there is a chiefe and captaine of the euill angels, so amongst the good there should be a chiefe angel aboue the rest, beside Christ: for it is sufficient that there is one Lord and prince of the angels, euen Christ. Secondly, neither is it proued out of scripture, that amongst the diuels there is one captaine and great diuel to whom the rest were subiects: for whereas the Pharisees obiected, that Christ cast out diuels through Beelzebub the prince of the diuels, Mark. 3. if either the Pharisees did then so meane, or any shall now gather vponupon their words, that there is a great master diuell that ruleth and commandeth the rest, it was in them but a pharisaicall dreame, and in the other a popish collection. We deny not, but that there may be degrees in power and angelicall gifts both among the good and bad angels, as there shall be degrees in glorie among the Saints: yet the Saints shall not be princes one ouer the other, no more are the angels now. Thirdly, marke the answere of our Sauiour in that place, If Sathan cast out Sathan, Mark. 3. Here Sathan is made a common name to all euill spirits. But Apocalyps. 12. where mention is made of the diuell and his angels, the text sayth, The great dragon, the old serpent, called the Diuell and Sathanas, vers. 9. Here the name Sathanas, is giuen to the prince of the diuels: so there is not one Sathanas, but many. And where our Sauiour calleth the diuell the prince of the world, Iohn 14. S. Paul calleth them all principalities and powers, worldly gouernours, and princes of the darknesse of this world, Ephes. 6.12. So there is not one prince of the diuels, but they are all princes. Thus Augustine expoundeth that place, Draco pugnauit & angeli eius: id est, diabolus & homines voluntati eius obtemperantes: The dragon fought and his angels, that is, wicked men obeying his will, Apocalyps. Hom. 9. So by Augustines sentence the diuels are not subiects to the great diuell, but they are all princes and commanders of wicked men.
THE SECOND QVESTION OF THE MINIsterie and function of Angels.
THis question hath two parts: first, of the externall ministerie of angels, in the protection, and defence of the Church. Secondly, of their spirituall office about the prayers of Gods seruants.
THE FIRST PART CONCERNING the defence and protection of Angels.
The Papists.
MIchael (say they) is the protector and keeper of the whole Church of Christ, error 3 Dan. 10.21. And as earthly kingdomes hauehave their speciall angels for their protectors, so also hauehave particular Churches, Dan. 10. Rhemist. annot. 1. Apocal. sect. 9.
The Protestants.
THE whole Church hath Christ himselfe, who is the true Michael, Fulk. ibid.for her protector and defender: And so is that place in Daniel to be vnderstood. Augustine also by Michael vnderstādeth Christ: the name also signifieth as much: Michael, that is, one like vntounto God: see more of this before: Controv. 4. quaest. 1. The scripture sayeth. All power is giuen to Christ, and hee is with his Church to the end of the world: Math. 28.18.20. He therefore is the chiefe patrone and protector of his Church.
Secondly, It cannot be proued out of scripture, that kingdomes hauehave their speciall Angels protectors, for Dan. 10. The Princes of the Persians and Grecians, were not Angels but earthly princes: for Angelles doe not resist Christ and his Angelles defenders of the Church, as the Prince of Percia did▪ ver. 13 Fulk. ibid. but all the Angelles of heauen are readie to serue the Lord at his pleasure, for the defence of his Church, without anye limitation of place, Zachar. 1.10. These are they whome the Lord hath sent, to goe through the worlde. The Angelles execute their message, not in seuerall countryes but in the whole world.
The Papist.
error 4 EVerie one hath from his natiuitie an Angell for his custodie and patronage against the wicked, before the face of God. Gen. 48.16. Iacob saith, The Angell that hath kept mee from my youth vp. Acts 12.15. It is his Angel. Rhemist. ibid. Math. 18.10. Their Angelles behould the face of my Father. Ergo, eueryevery man hath his proper Angell.
Answ. 1. Iacob by the Angell vnderstandeth Christ, to whome it is proper to blesse Gods children: the Angell blesse thy children saith he, Gen. 48.16. This Angell appeared vntounto him in Bethel, and is called the God of Bethel. Gen. 31.13. with this Angel Iacob wrestled, 32. which was God, as it appereth by the name of Iacob, he is called Jsrael, because hee had preuailed with God, and the place is called Peniel, I hauehave seene God face to face: Other proper Angell Iacob had none, for all the Angelles of God were appointed for his defence. Gen. 32.1. He met an hoste of Gods Angelles, and accordingly called the place Mahanaim.
2. Neither of the other places proue that men hauehave proper Angels. Math. 18. The children of God are said to hauehave their Angels: not theirs, as eueryevery man his proper Angell, but theirs in common, because they were deputed for their defense. Act. 12. Peter at that time was deliuered by one Angel, but it followeth not, that therefore he was his proper Angell.
The Protestants.
WE nothing doubt of the protection of Gods Angelles: but that eueryevery one hath a proper Angell appointed for his protection from his natiuitie, out of scripture it is not proued.
1. Sometime one Angel hath the charge of a multitude. Exod. 23.20. The Lord saith to all the people of Israel, I send mine Angell before thee, to keepe thee in thy way.
2. Sometime many Angelles are ready for the defense of one man: Gen. 32.1. an hoste of Angels met Iacob. Psa. 91.11. He shal giuegive his Angels charge ouer thee, to keep thee al in thy wayes: Ergo, eueryevery man hath not his particular proper Angell.
3 Luke 16.22. The poore man is said, being dead, to be carried not by one Angell, but by the Angels, into the bosome of Abraham. But if he had one Angell appointed to be the president of his life from his natiuitie, it had beene also parte of that Angelles charge, to hauehave conueyed his soule into Heauen. So Augustine writeth: Si bene vixerimus, vbi a carnis vinculo anima liberata fuerit, mox in occursum nostrum Angelorum chorus occurret. De salutarib. document. cap. 39. If we liued well here, when as the soule is gone from the body, the holy company of the Angels are ready to meete vsus, he sayeth not one Angell, but the whole chore or company.
THE SECOND PARTE, WHAT OFFICE the Angelles hauehave about our prayers.
The Papists.
THeir opinion is, that the Angelles do offer vp our prayers vntounto God.Haeres. 5. And they would proue it by that place Apocalyps. 8.2. An Angell stood by the Altar, with a golden censer, and much incense was giuen vntounto him to offer with the praiers of the saintes. Rhemist. in hunc locum.
Ans. Augustine vponupon this place sayth, that this Angell is Christ, Thuribulum aureum est corpus eius sanctum, the golden censer is his body, ex quo Deus …dorem suauitatis accepit, out of the which God smelt a sweete sauour. Homil. in Apocalyp. 6. And in another place he saith, Vt altare sanctificat dona, sic Christus preces nostras, as the altar sanctifieth the gift, so Christ doth our praiers▪ quaest. in Euangel. 34. First therefore this place is vnderstoode of Christ, not of any Angell.
2. If this place might be vnderstood of Angels, that they hauehave some ministerie about our praiers, it maketh nothing notwithstanding for popish inuocation of Angels: for the Angel here cōmendeth not the prayers of the Saints by his merit, but by the much incense giuen vntounto him, to ad to the prayers of the Saints to make them acceptable, which is the sweete smell and sauour of the precious d…ath and merites of Christ. Fulk. in hunc locum. Augustine indeede sometime ascribeth such an office vntounto the Angelles to carry vp our prayers to Heauen, as their charge is to carry vp our soules: not as mediatours or intercessors, but as the Lords messengers and agents here vponupon earth, to reporte vntounto him our affaires: dicuntur Angeli preces nostras, & vota Deo offerre, non vt deum doceant, qui omnia antequam fiant, nouit, sed vt super his dei voluntatem consulant. The Angelles are said to offer vp our prayers and vowes vntounto God, not to informe or instruct the Lord, but onelyonly to consult and know his pleasure: tom. 9. de dilection. Cap. 3. & in Psalm. 74. for the Angels hauehave two offices, the one, to execute the commaundement of God in the world, and to attend vponupon him to receiue their charge, Math. 18.10. the other, to returne vntounto God as faithfull messengers the successe of their busines in the worlde. Zechar. 1.10. Now whether the Angelles be appointed of God to report vntounto him our sayings and doings,Fulk. Apo. …. sect. 2. as other affaires of our life, the scripture no where euidently sheweth. Neither, if it were graunted, would it any thing helpe their popish inuocation of Angelles.
Rhemist. alleadge Tob. 12.12. to proue the offering of our prayers by Angelles. Answer, It is neither canonicall Scripture, nor agreeable vntounto it: Fulk. annot. Coloss. 2. sect. 3.
The Protestants.
THe scripture alwayes maketh Christ our onelyonly Mediator, neither Angelles nor Saints, by whome our prayers and all other spirituall sacrifices are offered vntounto God. Fulk ibid.
1 Hebrew. 13.15. Let vsus by him offer the sacrifice of praise alwayes to God. 1. Peter. 2.5. You are an holy priesthoode, to offer vp spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God, by Iesus Christ. Ergo, Christ Iesus is our onelyonly Mediator.
Secondly, Galatian. 3.19. The Lawe was ordayned by Angelles in the hand of a Mediator. Ergo, the Angelles are one office, and the Mediator another. Augustine sayeth: Quòd non aliquem ex Angelis dicit Mediatorem, 1. Tim. 2.sed ipsum Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum habes alio loco: vnus (inquit) Deus, & vnus mediator Dei & hominum, homo Christus Iesus. That the Apostle calleth not any of the Angels, but only Iesus Christ our Lord, Mediator, we hauehave in another place: There is one God, saith he, and one Mediator of God and man, the Man Iesus Christ.
AN APPENDIX OR THIRD PART of this question, whether Angelles or Saints know our heartes.
The Papists.
THe Angelles and other Celestiall spirites doe knowe our heartes and inwarde repentance:Haeres. 6. And betweene the Angelles and the blessed soules of Saintes, there is no difference in this case, the one being as highly exalted, and neere God, as the other, in whome and by whome only they see and know our affaires. Luke 15.10. There is ioy in heauen▪ in the presence of the Angelles ouer one sinner that repenteth. Ergo, they know our repentaunce. Rhemist. Lu. 15. Sect. 2.
Ans. 1 Our heartes and inward repentance are not knowen to the Angelles, but by the fruites, and true effectes thereof.
2 Although the elect, after the resurrection shal be like in glorie to the Angelles, yet it followeth not, that they shall be like in all thinges, much lesse that their soules now in heauen, be in all thinges like vntounto the Angelles, whose presence and Ministerie God vseth in the preseruation of his chosen.
3 That all thinges done in the worlde may be seene in God, as in a glasse, is but a prophane speculation, and the deuise of an ydle braine. Fulk. ibid.
Argum. 2 Abraham had knowledge of things in earth, which were not in his time, as that they had Moyses and the Prophetes bookes, which hee neuer sawe. Luk. 16. ver. 29. Rhemist.
Answere: First, In this narration many thinges are spoken parabolically, out of the which we must not ground any doctrine not taught els where in scripture: for you may aswell say that soules hauehave fingers and tounges, and that elementall water wil quench hell fire, as that Abraham knew what books were written after his death.
Secondly,Haeres. 5. Albeit that the doctrine of the Church comprehended in the scriptures, might be reuealed to Abraham after his death, yet it followeth not, that he knew all thinges, as you affirme the saintes doe, by beholding the Maiestie of God. Fulk. annot. ibid.
The saintes therefore in heauen knowe so much as the Lord thinketh good to reueale vntounto them, they knowe not all things.
The Protestants.
WE deny not, but that as Prophetes and holy men in this life, may knowe many secret thinges reuealed vntounto them by the spirit of God, as Peter found out the secret fraude of Ananias, & Sapphirae: Eliseus being absent found out Gehezi his corruption: yea, hee could tell what was doone in the King of Syria his chamber: so the Lord may reueale vntounto the saintes in heauen at his pleasure, some thinges done vponupon earth. But that they receiued any such gift of God, to know all thinges done vponupon earth, it is a great vntrueth, and cleane contrary to the scriptures.
1. Salomon sayeth in his prayer vntounto God: Heare thou in heauen, in thy dwelling place, and giuegive vntounto eueryevery man according to his wayes, as thou knowest his heart, for thou onelyonly knowest the hearts of all the children of men. 1. King. 8.39. Out of this place we thus reason, he only knoweth the heart, that is the Iudge of all men, and a rewarder of them according to their wayes: But the Lord onelyonly is iudge. Ergo. Againe, the wordes themselues be plaine, that God onelyonly knoweth the heart: so that what knowledge of secrets the Saintes hauehave, it is by reuelation, not by searching the heart.
Againe S. Paul saith: No man knoweth the thinges of man saue the spirit of man which is in him: so the thinges of God knoweth no man, but the spirite of God. 1. Corinth. 1.11. the Rhemist. aunswer that no man knoweth the secrets of the heart naturally, but by extraordinary gift he may, as the Prophets did. Ans. No man euer had or can hauehave a generall gift to know the heart, but when God seeth it good to reueale it: for otherwise the comparison holdeth not: The spirit of God onelyonly knoweth the things of God: which also is giuen to men to know, but not by receiuing any gift, to search and looke into the nature and heart as it were of God (for then should they knowe all the secrets of God, which neuer any did:) but onelyonly by reuelation of the spirite, which openeth Gods secrets vntounto them, so farre as it is conuenient and needfull.
Euen after the same manner the spirite of God may reueale the secrets of the heart of man, not by giuing them a generall gift them selues to looke into the heart, as into a glasse, but by reuealing such thinges, when the Lord seeth it expedient.
Neither had the prophets an inherent gift and dwelling in them, to know secrets, but the worde of God was inspired into them at times, as they had neede, as we see in Nathan 2. Sam. 7.3.4. in Elisha. 2. King. 2.15. in Isaiah. 2. Kin. 20.4. And though Paul was taken vp into heauen, and sawe many secrets, yet he knew not all: for thus he saith of him selfe, If I knew all secretes: 1. Corinth. 13.2. Ergo, no man euer receiued this gift, to search the heart: but it is proper vntounto God, who will not giuegive his honour to another.
2. Augustine saith, Nescire mortuos quid hic agatur dum hic agitur: that the dead know not what is done here, while it is in doing. But they vnderstand either by relation of those that departe this worlde, or els by the Angels: Non quidem omnia, sed quae sinuntur indicare: sicut Prophetae, nec hic omnia cognoscebant. sed quae illis essereuelanda dei prouidentia iudicarat. de cura pro mortuis. cap. 15. Neither do they know all things, but what God suffereth to be knowen, as neither did the Prophets knowe al things while they liued, but what God in his diuine prouidence thought good to reueale vntounto them. I note out of this saying of Augustine, three thinges.
FIRST, What great vncertaintie of opinion heere is: Howe the dead should come by the knowledge of humane affaires, the Papists think they hauehave it by Gods gift: otherwhile they say, they see all thinges in God, as in a cleare glasse. Augustine sayeth, they knowe them by the Angelles, or by men newly departed this lyfe: so that it appeareth to bee but a meer conceit and imagination, that they hauehave any such knowledge, whereof there is no surer ground. Secondly, Augustine saith, they know not things presently done, but afterward, contrarie to the Papists. Thirdly, they know not all things, as the Prophets also did not, but what the Lord reuealeth vntounto them: wherein also he is contrarie to our aduersaries.
THE THIRD QVESTION CONCERNING THE worship of Angels, first in generall, then in particular, of inuocation.
The Papists.
THey say that the diuine honour and adoration due vntounto God alone,Haeres. 7. is not to be giuen to Angels: But there is a religious reuerence, honour and adoration, which is not to be denyed to Angels and Saints, Rhemist. annot. Apocalyps. 19. sect. 4.
1 Iosua fell downe before the Angel and worshipped, Iosua 5. Rhemist.
Ans. He worshipped not an Angel, but the Lord Christ himselfe the captaine of the Lords armie: for it was a diuine worship: He is bid to put off his shooes, as Moses was, when God appeared out of the fierie bush, Exod. 3. But a diuine worship (by your owne confession) is due onelyonly to God, Fulk. annot. Coloss. 2.3.
2. 1. Timoth. 2.21. I charge thee before God and the Lord Iesus Christ, and his elect Angels, that thou obserue these things: Ergo, Angels may be adored and reuerenced, Rhemist.
Ans. Saint Paul maketh here the Angels witnesses of his waightie charge: so Moses calleth heauen and earth to witnesse, Deut. 30.19. may we therefore conclude, that he yeelded any religious worship to heauen and earth? Fulk. ibid.
The Protestants.
AS for due reuerence, which is of louelove, not of any seruice, there is no question, but we ought to yeeld it vntounto the Angels. But all religious seruice or worship is due onelyonly to God, and whosoeuer man or Angel requireth, or receiueth any religious worship or seruice, vsurpeth that which is due vntounto God, Fulk. Apocal. 19. sect. 4.
1 Apocal. 19.10. and 22.9. Iohn fell downe to worship the Angel: but the Angel suffered him not: See thou doe it not, (saith he) for I am thy fellowe seruant, and of thy brethren, worship God: Ergo, Angels are not to be adored with any religious worship.
Rhemist. First, he forbiddeth him onelyonly to worship him with diuine adoration.
Ans. The words are generall: he sayth not worship God, with this kind of seruice: but worship God.
Rhemist. Secondly, you say, that Iohn so worthie an Apostle was not ignorant of that poynt, that Angels were not to be worshipped as God: we may replye also, that if Iohn had knowne that this other kind of seruice was vnlawfull, he would not hauehave done it.
Ans. Iohn sinned not of ignorance, but of forgetfulnes, in this extasie of his mind, while he beheld the glorie of the Angel, as likewise through his frailenes and forgetfulnes he committeth the like againe, cap. 22. which Iohn would not hauehave done, being once before admonished, had he not presently forgotten himselfe: But the other error of worshipping the creature for the Creator, was too grosse an error for the Apostle.
Rhemist. Thirdly, he was deceiued in the person, taking the Angel for Christ, and therefore was not culpable at all in this fact, in giuing diuine honour to the Angel, for he sinned onelyonly materially, not formally.
Ans. First, Iohn was not ignorant, that he was an Angel, and not Christ, for he sayth, he was one of the seuen Angels that had the seuen vials. Secondly, though he sinned of ignorance, yet was it a sinne: for the Prophet, which beleeued the olde Prophet, sinned grieuously, as it appeared by his punishment, though he did it ignorantly, 1. King. 13. Wherefore it is a grosse error of your Schoolemen, that say, a man sinneth not, if he worship the diuell in the shape of an Angel ignorantly.
Rhemist. Fourthly, the Angel would not receiue this worship at Iohns hand, whom he knew to be in great fauour with God, and greater then some Angel.
Ans. First, though hereafter the childrē of God shalbe made equall to the Angels in glorie, yet in this mortall life they must needes be inferiour, seeing Christ himself, in respect of his passion, was inferiour to the Angels, Heb. 2.9. Secondly, the Angel would not hauehave taken this homage at any other mans hands, beside Iohn: for he giueth a reason, that he is not only his fellow seruant, but also of his brethren. So for al their shifts and cauils, we strongly conclude by this example, that no religious honour ought to be giuen to Angels.
2 Honoramus Angelos, charitate non seruitute (sayth Augustine) nec eis templa construimus: We honour Angels with the duetie of louelove, not of seruice, neither doe we build temples vntounto them. Quod ergo colit summus Angelus, id colendum etiam est ab homine vltimo. That therefore which is worshipped of the highest Angel, the man of lowest degree ought also to worship, De vera religion. cap. 55. Ergo, no worship due vntounto Angels, but all vntounto God.
THE SECOND PART OF THE INVOcation of Angels.
The Papists.
Haeres. 8.THey hold, that it is lawfull to direct our praiers vntounto Angels, Rhemist. Coloss. 2. sect. 3. Yea, and because they pray for vsus, and deale with God to procure merciemercy for vsus, they may iustly be called our aduocates.
Angels are deputed for our protection (which is nothing but aduocation) Dan. 10.23. Math. 18.10. Rhemist. annot. 1. Iohn 2. sect. 5.
Ans. First, the argument followeth not: for the Angels at the appoyntment of God, may serue for our protection and defence, though they be not aduocates for vsus, to obtaine remission of our sinnes. Secondly, the places alleadged proue no such aduocation of Angels, but onelyonly defence and protection. Dan. 10.23. The Angel was readie at the first praiers of Daniel, but he was letted a while. This proueth, that angels may knowe our praiers when it pleaseth God, and be ministers of his helpe vntounto vsus, which we denye not: not that they are our aduocates.
The Protestants.
THat angels are not to be worshipped, nor inuocated, as mediatours, intercessors, or aduocates, the scripture speaketh euidently.
1 Coloss. 2.18. Let no man beguile you in the humblenes and worshipping of Angels: Ergo, not lawfull to pray vntounto them, or to worship them.
Rhemist. The Apostle speaketh heere against the wicked doctrine of Simon Magus, that affirmed that the angels both ill and good, were mediators for vsus vntounto God, and against the superstition of the Iewes, that worshipped the angels by whom the law was giuen.
Ans. The Apostle condemneth both these superstitions, as likewise the popish inuocation of angels: because all will-worship is forbidden, which is not after the prescript of Gods word, Coloss. 2.23. Fulk. in hunc locum.
2 If any man sinne, (sayth the Apostle) we hauehave an aduocate with the father, Iesus Christ the Iust, he is the propitiation for our sinnes, Iohn 2.2. Ergo, Christ onelyonly is our aduocate.
Rhemist. Christ is our aduocate in the highest degree, because by himselfe, and his owne merites, without the assistance of any other, he obtaineth pardon for vsus. The other, as angels and Saints are as secondary intercessors, that obtaine not any thing by their owne merites, but onelyonly through Christ.
Ans. First, he onelyonly and properly is an aduocate that can pleade the iustice of his clients cause, which eueryevery one that prayeth for vsus cannot doe: for though the angels and Saints departed should pray for vsus (which we knowe not by the scriptures) as our brethren vponupon earth doe, yet should they not be mediatours and aduocates, but petitioners and intreators for vsus, Fulk. ibid.
Secondly, we gather many strong arguments out of this place, for the sole sufficient aduocation of Christ. First, the Sonne is the best and onelyonly sufficient aduocate with the father, therefore where we may hauehave free and bold accesse to the Sonne, Heb. 4.16. what need hauehave we of the seruants helpe? 2. He is the only aduocate that is iust and righteous before God: so onelyonly is Christ, the angels are imperfect in his sight, Iob. 4.18. Ergo. Thirdly, he must be our aduocate that is also the propitiation for our sinnes, Ergo, onelyonly Christ.
Augustine saith, Dicitis, angelos nos colimus: vtinam illos coleretis, facile ab illis disceretis, illos non colere: But ye will say, ye worship not images but Angels: I would you did truely worship and reuerence them: for you should soone learne of the Angels, not to worship the Angels, in Psal. 96.
THE NINTH GENERALL CONTROVERSIE CONCERNING SAINTS DEPARTED.
THis Controuersie hath two parts: first, of those that being departed suffer some punishment after this life. Secondly, of those that are straight receiued to ioye in heauen. The first part hath two questions: first, of the place of darknesse, where the faithfull remained till the comming of Christ, as the Papists imagine. Secondly, of Purgatorie.