Answer to the Proud Challenge of a Counterset Catholic, Answer · Answer · Article 4
The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes.
1 I demand, what Church hath mightely gonne through, borne downe, and fully vanquiſhed, all hereſies in times paſt, aſwell againſt the bleſſed Trinitie, as other Articles of our religion?
I Aunſwere, the true Catholike Church, hath alwayes reſiſted all falſe opinions, contrary to the worde of God, as her duty was, and fought againſt them with the ſworde of the ſpirite, which is the worde of God, and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie, and triumphed ouer them. So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church, from time to time, confute hereſies, by the ſcriptures, and declare in their writinges, that by them they are to be confuted, for examples ſake of a great number, I will alleage a few. Hylarius, writing of the bleſſed Trinitie againſt heretikes Lib. 4. ſayeth: Ceſſent ita que propriae hominum opiniones, ne que ſe vltrà Diuinam conſtitutionem, humana iudicia extendant: Sequamur ergo aduerſus irreligioſas, & impias de Deo inſtitutiones, ipſas illas diuinorum dictorum authoritates, & vnumquod que eorum ipſo de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus. Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place, and let not mens iudgements ſtretche them ſelues further than God his conſtitution. Therefore againſt theſe vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God, let vsus follow the very authority of God his ſayings, and handle eueryevery one of them, by the aide of him, about whome the queſtion is: Thus Hylarius, woulde hauehave hereſies againſt the Trinitie, to be confuted, not by mens iudgement, but by God his word. Baſilius magnus, very often teſtifieth, that he woulde hauehave all good thinges, proued by the ſcripture, and all euill thinges confuted by the ſame, In his moralles Diſt. 26. EueryEvery worde or deede, muſt be confirmed by the teſtimonie of holy Scripture, for the perſwaſion of good men, and the confuſion of wicked men: And in his treatiſe of Faith: we know, that we muſt now, and alwayes, auoide eueryevery voice or opinion, that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde. And in his ſhort definitions to the firſt interrogation: whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vntounto him ſelfe, to do or ſay any thinge, which he thinketh to be good, without the teſtimonie of the holy Scripture? he aunſwereth: foraſmuch as our Sauiour Chriſt ſayeth: that the holy Ghoſt ſhall not ſpeake of him ſelfe, what madnes is it, that any man ſhoulde preſume to beleue any thing, without the authoritie of God his worde. By theſe, and many other places, it is manifeſt, that Baſilius, woulde hauehave hereſies and falſe opinions, confuted by the holy Scriptures.
Chryſoſtome, vponupon Luke cap. 16. ſayeth, that the ignorance of the ſcriptures, hath bred hereſies, and brought in corrupt life, yea it hath turned all things vpſidown, by which it appeareth, by what meanes he would hauehave hereſies kept away, namely by knowledge of the ſcriptures. It were to long to reherſe all the places of S. Auguſtine, by which his minde appeareth, that he would hauehave the Church, ſought onelyonly in the ſcriptures, and heretikes confuted, onelyonly by the ſcriptures, to whoſe onelyonly authoritie in many places, he profeſſeth that he him ſelfe will be bounde, as Epiſt. 19. ad Hieronymum. Epiſt. 48. Vincentio. Epiſt. 111. Fortunatiano. Epiſt. 112. to Paulina, contra Fauſtum. lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Creſconium Grammaticum, lib. 2. cap. 31. & 32. de Baptiſmo contra Donatiſtas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis & remiſſione peccatorum, contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae & gratia cap. 61. De gratia Chriſti contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs & concupiſcentia lib. 2. c. 29. In theſe places, S. Auguſtine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall ſcripture, before all writinges of Catholike Doctors, of Byſhops, of Councells, before all cuſtomes, and traditions. But that he would hauehave the true Church ſought onelyonly in the ſcriptures, it is manifeſt, by theſe places, firſt in his 48. Epiſtle to Vincentius. Nos autem ideo certiſumus, neminem ſe a communione omnium gentium iuſtè ſeparare potuiſſe, quia non quiſquam noſtrum in iuſtitiae ſua, ſed in ſcripturis Diuinis quaerit Eccleſiam. ſpeaking of the Donatiſtes, he ſayeth. We are ſuer, that no man could iuſtly ſeparate him ſelfe from the communion of all Nations, becauſe none of vsus ſeeketh the Church in his owne righteouſneſſe, but in the holy Scriptures. So if the Papiſtes woulde not preſume of their owne righteouſneſſe, but ſeeke the Church of Chriſt in the ſcriptures, they would not ſeparate them ſelues from the communion of Chriſtes Church, now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popiſh church. Alſo in his booke De vnitate Eccleſiae. cap. 2. he hath theſe wordes. Inter nos autem & Donatiſtas quaeſtio eſt, vbi ſit Eccleſia. Quid ergo facturi ſumus? in verbis noſtris eam quaeſituri, an in verbis capitis ſui Domini noſtri Ieſu Chriſtis puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus, qui veritas eſt, & optimè nouit corpus ſuum. The queſtion is betwene vsus, and the Donatiſtes, where the Church ſhoulde be, what ſhall we doe then? ſhall we ſeeke her in our owne wordes, or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Ieſus Chriſt? I thinke we ought rather to ſeeke her in his words which is ye Truth, and beſt knoweth his owne body. So the queſtion is at this daye, betwen the Papiſtes and vsus, where the church is, let vsus ſeeke in God his worde, there we ſhall eaſily finde her. To the ſame intent, he ſpeaketh in the third, fiueth, and ſixtenth Chapters of the ſame treatiſe. Furthermore, that he woulde hauehave heretikes confuted onelyonly by the ſcriptures, he ſheweth likewiſe in many places of his workes: for writing againſt Maximinus the Arian, lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited, he ſayeth: but nowe, neither muſt I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice, nor then the Councell of Arimine, for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one, nor you of ye other, but let matter with matter, cauſe with cauſe, reaſon with reaſon, contend by authoritie of the ſcriptures, not proper to any, but indifferent witneſſes to both partes. If Auguſtine would not oppreſſe the Arrians, by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell, which was the firſt, and the beſt generall Councell, that euer was, but only by the ſcriptures, how much leſſe woulde he charge them with other authorities, that the Papiſtes alleage, beſide the authoritie of holy ſcriptures. And in his booke De Vnitate Eccleſiae againſt the Donatiſtes the 16 chapter: Sed vtrū ipſi Eccleſiam teneant, non niſi diuinarum ſcripturarum Canonicis libris oſtendant, quia nec nos &c. But whether they holde the church or no: let them ſhew none other wiſe, but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture, for we our ſelues doe not ſay, that men ought to beleue vsus, that we are in the Church, becauſe we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum, or Ambroſe of Millayn, or innumerable other Byſhops of our communion, hauehave commended to vsus, or becauſe it is ſet forth by the Councels of our felowe byſhops, or becauſe ſo many myracles of hearing requeſts, or healinges, are don in the holy places, which our fellowſhip doth frequent in the whole worlde, ſo that the bodies of Martyrs, which were hidden ſo many yeares (which thinge if they will aſke they may heare of many) were reuealed vntounto Ambroſe, and that at the ſame bodies, one that had bene many yeares blinde, very well knowen in the citie of Millayn, receyued his eyes, and eye ſight, either becauſe this man dreamed, or that man was rauiſhed in the ſpirite, and hearde a voice, that he ſhould not ioyne himſelfe to Donatus, or that he ſhoulde departe from the faction of Donatus: for when ſoeuer ſuch thinges are don in the Catholike Church, they are to be allowed, becauſe they are don in the Catholike church. but the church it ſelfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike, becauſe theſe thinges are done in it. By this Auguſtine declareth firſt that heretikes muſt be confuted, onelyonly by the ſcriptures, and ſecondly that neither Councells, ſucceſſion of byſhops, vniuerſality, miracles, viſions, dreames, nor reuelations, are the notes to trie the Catholike church, but onelyonly the ſcriptures. Moreouer in his booke De Paſtoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Eccleſiam &c. A weake perſon ſeeketh the Church, he wandreth and ſeeketh the church, what ſayeſt you? The church is of Donatus ſide. Enquire for the ſhepheards voice, Reade me this out of ſome Prophet, reade me this out of ſome Pſalme, rehearſe me it out of the lawe, rehearſe it out of the Goſpell, rehearſe it out of the Apoſtle, out of them do I rehearſe the Church diſperſed ouer all the worlde. And a litle after: Tu accuſas non Euangelium &c. Thou accuſeſt, not the Goſpell, thou accuſeſt not the Prophet, not the Apoſtle of whome this voyce ſpeaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not. But thou wilt bring forth decrees, I will alſo bring forth decrees, ſhoulde I beleue thine? beleue thou mine likewiſe. I beleue not thine, neither do thou beleue mine, then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde ſounde betwen vsus: bring me one place of ſcripture for Donatus ſide &c. Theſe places maye ſufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church ſhoulde ouerthrowe hereſies, namely by the worde of God onelyonly, which thing alſo Leo, the firſt byſhop of Rome, in his Epiſt. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confeſſeth ſaying: Sed in hanc inſipientiam cadunt, qui cum ad cognoſcendam veritatem &c. But thoſe men fal into this foly, which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth, hauehave not recourſe to the voyces of the Prophets, not to the writings of the Apoſtles, not to the authoritie of the Goſpell, but to them ſelues. And therefore they become, maiſters of error, becauſe they hauehave not bene ſchollers of trueth. Of the ſame iudgement was the whole Councell of Conſtantinople the ſixt, as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes ſimpliciter &c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde hauehave ſimply and without ſubtiltie taken vponupon them the preaching of the Goſpell, and hauehave bene content with the conſtitutions of the Apoſtles, ſuerly matters ſhoulde hauehave bene well, and in good caſe, neither ſhoulde painefull contention, hauehave bene exerciſed againſt the authors of hereſies, nor againſt the fauorers of prieſts. Here the Councell confeſſeth, that the heretikes and ſchiſmatikes grow ſo faſt, becauſe they were not beaten downe, by preaching of the Goſpell and authority of the ſcriptures. Thus I hauehave declared by example, and authority of theſe Fathers, that the true Church of Chriſt, hath conuicted all heretikes, onelyonly by the ſcripture.
2 And what Church it was, that hath alwayes ſtande ſtill, and ſtedfaſt, whileſt all other Congregations, as well of Arrians, as Anabaptiſtes, Aerians, Nouatians, Vigilantians, Iouinians, and the reſt hauehave decaied.
THe true Church of Chriſt, hath alwayes ſtoode ſtedfaſt, and vnſeparable, from Chriſt her heade, when all heretikes hauehave bene, and ſhal be confounded. But the true Church hath not alwaies floriſhed in wordly peace and tranquilitie: for vntill the tyme of Conſtantine the great, which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had ſmall reſt from cruell perſecution in moſt places: and ſoone after againe vnderunder the Emperors Conſtantius, Conſtans, and Valons, it was greatly infected with the hereſie of Arius, what time alſo Tiberius Biſhop of Rome, was infected with the ſame hereſie. After that when Iulianus the Apoſtata, was Emperor, the temples of Idolls were opened, and gentilitie againe reſtored, ſo that the Church ſuffered great detriment. To be ſhort, when the barbarous Goathes, Vandales, Alanes, and other Idolatrous or heretical nations deſtroyed the Empire, the Church of God ſuffered a great Ecclipſe. But when Mahomet, in the Eaſt, & Antichriſt the Pope, in the Weſt, ſeduced the world with moſt deteſtable hereſie, then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps, the woman clothed with the Sonne, which you your ſelf confeſſe to be the Church, was ſo perſecuted by the Dragon, that ſhe fled into the wildernes, there to remaine a long ſeaſon. Where ſhe hath not decayed, but ben always preſerued, vntil God ſhould reueale Antichriſt, and bring her againe into open light, which (his holy name be prayſed) is now brought to paſſe in our dayes, to our ineſtimable comfort, and his euerlaſting glory.
3 And if it can be proued that either the Proteſtants Church or any other Church but ours, hath mightely ouerthrowne theſe foreſayd ſectes, and other of all ſortes, I recant.
IT hath bene already proued ſufficiently, that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onelyonly, by the worde of God, as a moſt infallible rule, hath ouerthrowne hereſies of all ſortes. But the popiſh church which refuſeth the only weapon, by which hereſies are cut downe, to be ſufficient for that purpoſe, neuer was nor ſhall be ſtrong enough to encounter with heretikes, therefore ſhe practiſeth to vanquiſh thoſe whom ſhe counteth for heretikes, not by authoritie of the Scriptures, but by fire and ſworde, and cruell warre, as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenſes, Albigenſes, Bohemians, and in our dayes with the true Chriſtians. But where her power of fire and ſword could not preuayle, there hath ſhe not ouerthrowne ſuch as ſhe condemneth for heretikes, namely the Grecians church, & all other churches of Aſia, and Aphrica, which vntounto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike, nor her authoritie to be lawefull. Wherefore ſeeing the Popiſh church neither hath confuted thoſe that are heretikes in deed, nor ſubdued thoſe whom ſhe counteth to be heretikes, if you be as good as your worde, you recant.