Answer to the Proud Challenge of a Counterset Catholic, Answer · Answer · Article 5
The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes.
1 Againe, what Church is that, which hath exerciſed by Chriſtes appointement, Diſcipline, vponupon offendors in all degrees?
ONelyOnly the Church of Chriſt, by Chriſtes appointement, hath exerciſed true diſcipline vponupon offendors, Although by meanes of perſecution, ſhe could not alwayes practiſe the ſame as ſhe would.
2 And for that purpoſe, hath continually executed lawes and Canons Eccleſiaſticall, with Excommunication, Degradation, ſuſpenſion, and ſuch like.
THe Church of Chriſt only, hath had lawful authority to exerciſe diſcipline: but as it is ſaid before, ſhe hath not continually practiſed the ſame, becauſe ſhe could not, being hindered by perſecution, and diſperſion. Concerning excommunication, ſhe hath practiſed it according to the word of God, and againſt ſuch offendors, as the ſcripture iudgeth worthy of that ſeuere puniſhment: As for degradation, and ſuſpenſion, it may be doubted what you meane by them: if you vnderſtand by degradation, that ſuch perſons as the Church hath tried vnmeet, either for doctrine or manners, to execute the office of preaching, and miniſtring the ſacraments, ſhe hath diſplaced and reiected from that charge: ſhe hath alſo practiſed drgradation: And if you meane by ſuſpenſion, that when the accuſation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine, that ſhe hath willed him to ceaſe from executing his office, vntill his cauſe were tried either good or euill, ſhe hath alſo vſed ſuſpenſion: but if by degradation and ſuſpenſion, you meane thoſe fooliſh and wicked ceremonies, which the popiſh church now vſeth and ſo termeth, I deny that euer the true Church of Chriſt had to do with ſuch degradations and ſuſpenſions.
3 Proue me this geere to procede from Proteſtants, or from any other Church than the Catholike, and I recant.
IT is proued before, that true diſcipline belongeth to the true Church, wherof we are a part, which Church is ſufficiently proued to be the ſpouſe of Chriſt, becauſe ſhe is ruled in all thinges by his onelyonly voice: And therefore all congregations of heretikes, which departe from the true worde of God, though they take vponupon them, to exerciſe diſcipline, by excommunication or otherwiſe, it is not to be regarded, and leſt of all the Popiſh church, where remaineth nothing of diſcipline and excommunication, but the very names: for what call you popiſh diſcipline? is not that it which they vſe in Lent, whiſking men on the heades, and women on the handes, with white roddes which they them ſelues call diſcipline? Or is it the ſeuere puniſhment that they vſe againſt offendors by excommunication, ſuſpenſion, interdighting &c. Firſt, it is manifeſt they hauehave no excommunication by Chriſtes appointment, for neither it is executed by the perſons appointed by Gods worde, nor againſt ſuch offendors only as God his word appointeth: for wheras our Sauiour Chriſt appointeth the order of that diſcipline, to the Congregation of ſuch as are wiſe, godly, and carefull of mens health, which firſt ſhal labor by fatherly admonition and wholeſome exhortation, to bring the offendors to repentance, whome if they refuſe to heare, they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes, the Pope contrariwiſe referreth the ſame to profane and vnreligious officers, which are more deſirous to gaine the fees of abſolution, than by bringing the party to repentance, to ſaue him from excommunication. Moreouer whereas by Gods worde, excommunication is the laſt and moſt greuous puniſhment, that the Church can enioyne againſt any, of whom there is any hope of ſaluation, and therefore ought not to be practiſed but for haynous offences, the Popiſh church maketh it ſerue for eueryevery trifling matter, yea for pettie debts and all, then commeth in interdightings & ſuſpenſions of places, as churches and townes, yea whole realmes, for one mans faulte: what likelineſſe hath this vntounto the diſcipline of Chriſtes church ſet forth in the ſcriptures, and practiſed by the fathers? with what face can you Papiſtes affirme, they hauehave diſcipline, in their Church, whē all penaunces for moſt horrible offences, may be bought out for money, and an open market thereof ſet vp at Rome, with the prices rated, what men muſt pay for eueryevery thing that they buye: as abſolution for him that hath killed his father, or mother, brother, ſiſter, or wife Turones 4. Ducat. 1. Ca. line. 5.8. For an heretike before he hauehave abiured 36. Turones. and 9. ducates. For a witche 6. Turones. 2. ducates. For a prieſt that is a Sodomite, or hath lyen with brute beaſtes 36. Turones. 9. ducates. For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby, with diſpenſation that ſhe may be able to receiue any dignitie, in her order, yea to be Abbeſſe, 36. Turones. 9. ducates. And ſo for all other offences, with diſpenſations, inhibitions, rehabilities, licences, relaxations, commutations, confirmation, perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money: wherefore except you be to impudent, to acknowledge this to be Chriſtian diſcipline, be as good as your promiſe, and recant.