Answer to the Proud Challenge of a Counterset Catholic, Answer · Answer · Article 3
The third article conteyneth 5. demandes.
1 Shew me why our common knowen Church, did not as well corrupt the text of the Teſtament, as the true religion conteyned in the ſame?
THere may be diuers good reaſons ſhewed, why your Church, commonly knowen to be the church of Antichriſt, did not as well corrupt the text of the Teſtament, as the true religion conteined therein. Firſt, becauſe ſhe coulde not, the copies thereof being ſo many, by the prouidence of God diſperſed throughout the worlde. Secondly, becauſe ſhe thought it not ſo needefull, hauing other meanes to worke her deuiliſh deuiſe: For, although ſhe coulde not corrupt the ſcripture, yet it made the leſſe matter, becauſe ſhe founde meanes to diminiſh, and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men, Popes, and Councells, to be equall or of greater authoritie than the ſcripture. Thirdly, becauſe ſhe woulde be leſſe in feare, to be reproued by the ſcripture, ſhe prouided that the knowledge thereof, ſhoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a ſtrange tongue, and from the learned, by the tedious mazes of queſtions, deuiſed by her Canoniſtes, and Sententiaries. Fourthly, becauſe ſhe ſubmitted all interpretation of the ſcripture, to her owne iudgement, and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof, but woulde alwayes expound it, as it liked her beſt. As appeareth by Ockam, and Duns, who though they confeſſe, that tranſubſtantiation, ſeemeth to them, contrary to the ſcripture, and reaſon, yet they beleued it, becauſe of the authoritie of the church, and for none other cauſe. Theſe are the reaſons, why the Romiſh church did not, as well corrupt the text of the Teſtamēt, as the true Religion. And yet how corrupt that Latine tranſlation is, which they woulde needes thruſt vpō vsus, is ſufficiently knowen to all learned men, euen in ſuch texts, as are the moſt coulerable places for the defence of Popiſh doctrine. I will geue one example for all: They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui ſtat, videat ne cadat. He that ſtandeth, let him take heede he fall not, againſt the certainetie of faith, whereas the Greeke hath, not he that ſtandeth, but, he that thinketh he ſtandeth, let him take heede he fall not: Thus the popiſh church cannot altogether excuſe her ſelfe, from corrupting of the text of the Teſtament, whether it was of fraude, or of ignorance, or of negligence, the Lorde knoweth.
2 Shew me why, ſhe kept not ſo ſafely, and faithfully, the true ſenſe of God his word, as ſhe preſerued the word it ſelfe?
BEcauſe it was againſt her owne eſtimation, and profit, which are the chiefe endes for which popiſh Prelates mainteyne popiſh religion. Take away the Popes prerogatiue, which is contrary to the ſenſe of God his word, downe goe Cardinalls, Legates, Prothonotaries: downe goeth all the Court of Rome, take away workes of ſupererogation, which are contrary to the Scripture, downe goe Abbeys, Priories and Chantries. Take away the ſacrifice of the Maſſe, & Purgatory, which are contrary to the word of God, downe goeth the eſtimation, and gaynes of all the popiſh clergie: And this is the cauſe, why the popiſh church kept not ſo ſafely, and faithfully, the true ſenſe of God his word, as ſhe preſerued the word it ſelfe, although ſhe preſerued not the word it ſelf, in ſuch ſafetie as becommed the Church of Chriſt.
3 Shew me why, we ſhould beleue the Papiſtes, as you terme them, for the word it ſelf, and rather you Proteſtants thā them, for the meaning of the word.
WE doe not chalenge credit to our ſelues, in any poynt, ſo preſumptuouſly as the Papiſtes, that men muſt beleue it becauſe we affirme it. But becauſe we proue it to be true, by the worde of God. And therefore for the meaning of the word, you ſhould beleue vsus rather than them, becauſe our groundes & proues are better then theirs, or elſe we require not to be beleued better than they.
4 Shew me why, you beleued our Church, telling you this to be God his booke, & will not credit her, auouching this to be the true and vndoubted ſenſe of the ſame booke?
IF we had no better ground to perſwade vsus, of the authoritie of God his booke, than ye teſtimony of your Church, you may be ſure we would not beleue it. But becauſe we hauehave moſt ſtedfaſt aſſurance of God his ſpirite, for the authority of that booke, with the teſtimony of the true Church in all ages. If you ſay it is God his booke, we beleue you not, becauſe you ſay ſo, but becauſe we know it to be true. But if you bring out a falſe ſenſe, we beleue you not, becauſe we know it to be falſe, & are able to proue by the word of God, that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghoſt. To be plaine with you, we geue as much credit to your Church, as to the deuill. When the deuill ſayth: it is written: He ſhall giuegive his angells charge ouer thee, and with their handes they ſhall hold thee vp that thou daſh not thy foote againſt a ſtone. We beleue that this is the worde of God. But when he auoucheth this to be ye meaning of it, that we may caſt downe our ſelues from a Church ſteeple, without daunger, we doe not beleue him, becauſe we know this ſenſe is contrary to an other Scripture, which ſayth: Thou ſhalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you ſay theſe wordes are the Scripture of God: This is my body: We beleue it, becauſe we knowe it to be true. But when you ſay this is the meaning of theſe wordes. This bread is turned into my naturall bodye, we beleue you not, becauſe it is contrary to all places of Scripture, which proue the trueth of Chriſt his humanitie or naturall body. Thus I ſhewe you why we beleue you, if you ſay the Scripture is God his word, namely becauſe we know it to be true, & why we beleue you not, ſaying this is the meaning of it, that is, becauſe we knowe by the word of God that it is falſe.
5 Laſt of all, Shew me why, you beleued the olde known church, affirming this to be the word of God, and will not beleue her, affirming Luther to be an heretike, ſhew me good reaſon or Scripture for theſe thinges, and I recant.
IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church, whoſe teſtimony of the word of God we allow & beleue, I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike, or the doctrine that he taught, which we hold, to be hereſie, but I am able to proue, that the primitiue Church, from which you hauehave receiued the Scripture, affirmeth your doctrine to be hereſie, & your Church ye Church of Antichriſt.
But if by ye old knowne Church, you meane the Church of old, knowne to be the Church of Antichriſt, which is the popiſh church, we beleue the deuill if he ſpeake the trueth, and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen, if he bring any other Goſpel, than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians. Therefore when your church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike, ſeeing we know that Luther did not obſtinately, and malitiouſly erre, in any article of faith, concerning the ſubſtance of religion, we doe not beleue her: and ſpecially becauſe ſhe is a partiall witneſſe againſt him, whome God vſed to diſcouer, ſo much of her wickedneſſe, to her great hindrance, there is no credit to be geuen vntounto her, when ſhe goeth about to deface him, by ſclaunderous names, and falſe accuſations. Thus I hauehave ſhewed theſe thinges that you require, both by good reaſon, and alſo by ſcripture: Therefore if I may beleue you, you recant.