The Unreasonableness of the Separation Made Apparent 2, Part 1 · Reason 3 – Reason 4
The third Reason.
Fr. Iohnson.
Whatsoever ministery is such, as none can heare or have any spirituall communion with it, but in so doeing he shall worship the image of the beast, & receive his marke in his forehead or hand; that ministery may none heare, or have any spirituall communion withall.
But the present ministery of the Church-assemblys of England is such, as none can have any spirituall communion therewith; but in so doeing, he shall worship the beasts image, and receive his marke in his forehead or hand. Ergo,
None may heare or have any spirituall communion therewith.
VV. Bradshaw
This reason for the effect and substance thereof differeth not from the second. For what is it (by his own interpretation) to worship the beasts image, but to subject himselfe to the ministery and worship of Antichrists apostasy? & how is it possible for him to proove this without running to the former reasons, for their help therein?
For the proofe of the assumption, he setts us downe a tedious discourse of some sixe leaves of paper, teaching what is meant by the beast, and his image, and by receiving the marke in the forehead or hand. The summe and effect whereof is this.
That by beast we are to understand the Romane dominion, and Antichrists hierarchy, with all the offices, Laws and autority appertaining thereunto. That by worshiping the beasts image, may be under stood the yeelding of spirituall subjection to that Antichristian Kingdome, in the Laws office & jurisdiction thereof. That by receiving the marke in the forehead or hand, is ment publickely to professe and observe them; not being ashamed of the beasts ways, And this doe all they who submi t to the government of Prelates, Priests, Parsons, Vicars, book-worship, &c.
Not to c…ntend about this interpretation; but to suppose it true; there is nothing in substance here brought to confirm the 3. Reason, but that which is in the 2. Reason. Namely: that therefore we worship the beast, in communicating with our ministery, because it is the ministery of Antichrists apostasy: and therefore it needs no other answere then that which hath been given allready.
OnelyOnly thus much further; That for men so far forth to submitt to the government of such Prelates, &c. as our Laws doe require, is not to yeeld spirituall subjection to the Kingdome of Antichrist; nor without shame to professe the beasts ways. For they may notwithstanding that, be subject to Christ and his Laws, and to fight against the beast: Yea though it should be granted, that insundry particulars they yeeld to some things, in theire use Antichristian, and unlawfull: which the best reformed Churches and ministers sometimes of ignorance or infirmity may doe, and yet remaine the Churches and ministery of Christ.
This also Maister Can passeth by, supposing it seemes, Maister Bradshaws verdict true of it, as an idle repetition of reasons, formerly delivered; & for want of better store, to make shew of more variety, new dished, & with some other garnishment now served in againe.
The fourth Reason.
Fr. Iohnson.
None may heare or joyn in any spirituall communion with that ministery, which deriveth not their power and function of ministery from Christ, which is the head for the Edification of his Church, which is his body.
Such is the ministery of the Church-assemblys of England.
Therefore none may heare, or joyn in spirituall communion therewith.
VV. Bradshaw
This Reason is the same with the first: For it is all one to be derived from Christ; and to be sett by Christ in his Church. The other words which here he addeth, doe not more vary the force of the argument, then a new garment put upon the same witnesse, would make him a new witnesse, and indifferent from himselfe.
In the proofe of the Assumption he daubs sixe pages, bringing therein nothing but his olde brokery: the substance whereof is as followeth.
1: That our ministers have not those offices which Christ hath given to his Church, for the worke of his ministery.
2. That it is the ministery of Deacons and Priests made by the Prelates.
3. That they were left in England by the Pope, and are still in the Kingdome of Antichrist, where they first rose; and therefore it is divelish; and by consequent, the more gifts and truth, the ministers bring with them the more they upholde the mystery of iniquity, and intice unto theire stolne waters, and hid bread.
4. That our Church-assemblys are not true visible Churches of Christ, unseparated from the world, not joined together in communion of the Gospell by voluntary profession of the faith and submission to the government of Christ, but standing in bondage unto Antichrist.
The very rehearsall of which Reasons, is answere sufficient; he being not able to proove any of these assertions, but either by the Assumption it selfe, that they are braught to proove, or one by another circularly.
Contrarily I affirm:
1. That there is no ordinary ministeriall office, that Christ hath given to his Church, for the worke of his ministery, but our ministers either have, or by the Laws ought to have the same.
2. That it is a ministery as opposite, for the substance thereof, to the ministery of popish Priests and Deacons, as light is opposite to darknesse.
3. That the Pope left not such Priests and Deacons as ours are, nor hath any such in his Kingdome: but that our Priests and Deacons have been under God and the Prince, the principall persons that have driven the Pope and his Priests and Deacons out of the Realm. that it is divilish, for any to say that they are divilissi, except they can proove it by better Reasons. That they that have the best gifts doe not intice any to stolne waters, or hidden bread, or to upholde any mystery of iniquity; Except the Gospell of Jesus Christ, and the true and onelyonly meanes of salvation, be the mystery of iniquity.
4. That our Church-assemblys, being such as by the Laws of the Land they ought to be are so far forth separated from the world, joyned together in the communion of the Gospell by the voluntary profession of faith, and freed from Antichrist, &c. as is sufficient to make them true visible Churches of Christ; notwithstanding that many things may be wanting to the full and desired perfection of them. And I doubt not, but we shall be far more able at any time, by reasons out of Gods word to proove these points; then ever Maister Iohnson will be to proove the contrary. And yet, it were easie to proove any thing by such a jugling methode of Reasoning, as Maister Iohnson hath gotten. For he can proove you the 1. reason by the 2. the 2. by the 1. the 3. by the 1. & 2. the 1. and 2. by the 3. the 4. hy the 1. 2. and 3. and every of them by the 4. and all foure by that question, which here they are brought to proove.
To this in defence of Maister Iohnson as justly liable to the forenamed Exception, Maister Can saith as litle almost, as to the former; onelyonly gives a snatch or a snarle rather, at that which Maister Bradshaw saith; That there is no ordinary ministeriall office, which Christ hath given to his Church, but theire ministers either have, or by the Laws ought to have the same: and telleth his Reader, that he hath before (but we know not where) prooved that this is not true. And that Maister Bradshaw useth a juggling methode of Reasoning: theire ministers have such; because by Law they ought to have them: and that a man, by the same manner of arguing, may proove, that there be no theeves, traiters, whore mongers, &c. within the Kings dominions; because by the Laws every one should be true, loyall, chast; which would be laughed at of all; and yet the former is to the same effect, or else it serveth to no use at all, but to shew that the man had more will to doe mischiefe, then he had either witt or skill to accomplish the same.
But this is indeed not a juggling, but a meere cavilling and calumniating methode and manner of replying. For Maister Bradshaw doth not so reason, that therefore our ministers have them; because by Law they ought to have them, but that our ministers either have them, (as implying, that they doe ordinarily enjoy them and execute them,) or (whether they doe enjoy them & execute them, or no) by our Laws they ought to have them. The very constitution of our Church, as appeares by the bookes themselves objected by Mr. Iohnson to the contrarie, enjoyning and requiring the same of them.
Nor is the clause here therefore unusefull: because it meeteth with such objections as Maister Iohnson elswhere bringeth from our Church-canons & constitutions. These sory and senslesse cavills therefore, beseeming such as defend an ill cause, and want sound matter to support it, doe evidently shew indeed (as he saith of Maister Bradshaw) that Maister Can hath more malice, than might, more will, than witt or skill to doe mischeif; and more ability to calumniate, then to maintaine an orderly dispute.