The Ancient Doctrine of the Church of England, Part 1 · Response to body of book · Chapter 3
CHAP. III. The ſumme of his Anſwer to my ſecond and third Sections.
IN the ſecond Section he ſaith I labour to prove the contention betwixt the Churches to proceed originally from them. The third Section is to prove the corruption both in faith and manners: Both which are eaſily anſwered; Firſt by asking, what is this to the purpoſe for the viſible Church? Secondly, with the contradiction of a former lye, he telleth a new one; for the Reformation was ſought for manners onelyonly, and not for doctrine. This is the ſubſtance of your third Chapter, in anſwer to my ſecond and third Sections.
The Reply. You have anſwered two Sections almoſt in two words; the firſt, in denying it to be to the purpoſe; the latter, in giving me the lye: And thus like another Caeſar you have briefly expreſſed the expedition of your victory in few words,Veni, vidi, vici. I came, I ſaw, I overcame.
Firſt, you demand, what is this to the purpoſe of a viſible Church? But I rather wonder to what purpoſe you make ſuch a demand; For my Booke is entitled The Safe Way, not the viſibility of the Church. Yet let me tell you, the Authors which I cite are for the moſt part members of your Church, and their authorities tend much to the proofe of a viſible Church, if your Index Expurgatorius did not ſpunge them, and cauſe their teſtimonies to be often inviſible. For inſtance; in our behalfe I cite Caſſander: To Caſſander you anſwer, he is like your ſelfe, an Hereticke, or next doore to them: and yet elſewhere you ſay, with much adoe he may paſſe for a Catholike. Pag. 21. Oportet eſſe memorem.I cite Cecenas Generall of the order of Franciſcans, as witneſſing the viſibilitie of our Church above 300. yeares agoe; you anſwer, he was condemned for diſobedience and rebellion; for he ſaid Pope John the 22. was an Apoſtata and an Hereticke, and therefore not true Pope: And in this manner you can eaſily reſolve all doubts, and reject all Authors that ſpeake not Placentia, according to your pallate; onelyonly (ſay you) St. Bede is a Catholicke. Now if you pleaſe, take a review of theſe Authors. Caſſander (you know) was a learned man, he was highly favoured for his wiſedome by two Emperours, Maximilian and Ferdinand; he was moderate in all his writings, he ſought to extenuate the palpable errors and hereſies of your Church, he indevoured to accord, and (if it had beene poſſible) to reconcile the differences on both ſides; and laſtly, he lived and died in the communion of the Roman Church. Cecenas was a Frier, and Generall of the Order of Franciſcans, he was condemned de facto by the Pope; but it doth not appeare quo jure, by what right, for if the accuſation were true, the Pope deſerved the puniſhment, and not the innocent Frier: liſten therefore to the rebellion and diſobedience for which he was accuſed. Cecenas ſhewes in particular that Pope John was a ſchiſmaticke and an heretike, in his peremptorie oppoſition againſt the Word of God and the Catholicke Church;Mich. de Cecena tractat. contra errores Papae p. (mihi) 1314. & 1336 in Tom. 2. Gul. Occham. de Juriſdictione Imperiali. Naucler. Gener. 45. Anno 1324. he charged him with twelve ſeverall errors, which you may reade at large in the place cited; and for thoſe and the like accuſations he was excommunicated and depoſed by the Pope. I confeſſe the accuſation was capitall, but it was no other than was juſtly laid to his charge. For Nauclerus ſaith, Many great and famous Divines of great learning and good life proclaimed Pope John (by the name of Pope) to be an Hereticke for certaine errors; Tepidè.which errors notwithſtanding it is ſaid that he (coldly) revoked at the time of his death; and hee addes withall, that Pope Benedict his immediate ſucceſſor openly condemned the ſame errors. You ſee then it was not the Franciſcan Frier onelyonly, but many Divines both good and learned did condemne him of Hereſie; and not they alone, but the Pope himſelfe who ſucceeded him, publikely condemned him for an Hereticke. And thus much touching Pope John the 21. called by ſome the 22. There was another Pope John, by the name of 22. otherwiſe called 23. who was living one hundred yeares after; he was choſen Pope ataPlat. in Joh. 24. Bononia, by the conſent of all the Cardinals. Againſt this John, it was ſpecially objected at the Councel of Conſtance, bQuinimo dixit, & pertinacitèr credidit, animam hominis cum corpore humano mori, & extingui ad inſtar animalium brutorum. Concil. Conſtant.That he obſtinately held that the ſoule of man dieth together with the body, and is conſumed to nothing, as the ſoule of brute beaſts: Neither did he hold this Tenet as a private man (which is your generall Anſwer) for Antoninus ſaith plainely, Pope John held this error in the time of his Popedome, cJohannes ſermonē faciens in publico conſiſtorio, dixit quaedam haereſin ſapientia. Anton. part. 3. tit. 21. c. 6.and pronounced words ſavouring of hereſie openly in the Conſiſtorie. Neither was this accuſation of theſe men accounted rebellion and diſobedience in them, as it was in Ceaenas; for (ſaith Gerſon)dFalſitas doctrinae Papae Jobānis viceſsimi, quae dānata fuit cum ſono buccinarum vel tubarum coram Rege Philippo per Theologos Pariſienſes. Gerſ. ſerm. in Feſto Paſchae Tom. 4. pag. (mihi) 491. his falſe doctrine was condemned by the Divines of Paris, and proclaimed with ſound of trumpets in the preſence of King Philip; and withall the Councell it ſelfe deprived him of his Popedome (which ſhewes plainly, the authority of a Councell is above the Pope.) And to his depoſition ſubſcribed 4. Patriarkes, 29. Cardinals, 47. Archbiſhops, 270. Biſhops, 564. Abbots and Doctors, in all above 900. depoſed both Benedict the 12. and John the 23. and yet theſe men are reputed by you for an infallible Rule of the Roman Faith. And thus not onelyonly Ceaenas was depoſed for his diſobedience towards an Hereticke, and is now thruſt into your firſt Claſsis of damned Authors, but the whole Councell of Conſtance touching that Seſsion (where they decred the Councell to be above the Pope) is rejected, and diſavowed by your Church.
It is no difficult thing then to prove your infallible Pope may bee an Hereticke; but if any man of your owne Church ſhall ſay ſo, and manifeſtly prove it, yea although it be a generall Councell, it muſt therefore be cenſured and condemned by your Church: And this may briefly ſerve in anſwer to what you ſay againſt my ſecond Section.
The third Section (ſay you) is of corruption both in Faith and manners,Pag. 50. which the Knight proveth out of the Councell of Piſa, and out of the Councell of Trent; To which I anſwere: For matter of manners wee willingly acknowledge a reformation to be needfull, but for doctrine with the contradiction of his owne former lye, hee telleth a new one.
It is a true ſaying of Chryſoſtome, A lyar thinkes no man ſpeakes the truth; Qui mendax eſt neminen… verum putat dicere. Chryſ. in Matth. Hom. 19But that the truth of my aſſertion may appeare, looke upon the Letters of ſummons; they declare that the Councell was called to reforme errors that concerned Faith; they ſhew there was a due and wholeſome reformation to be made, aſwell of the Church doctrine, as of the manners of men, for quieting the conſciences of the faithfull: And accordingly Pope Alexander did aſſemble the moſt learned of all Nations;Idem dixit, quod ipſe volebat vacare circa Reformationem Eccleſiae, &c. Acta Concil. Piſ Seſſ. 20. Bin. Tom. 3. Pars 2. p (mihi) 837. the Cardinals did binde themſelves with an Aſſumpſit, that they would not proceed to the election of a new Pope (when his predeceſſors Gregorie the 12. and Benedict the 13. were depoſed) unleſſe the Pope would agree to a reformation in the Head and Members; and will you ſay the Pope did aſſemble the moſt learned of all Nations to teach good manners onelyonly? Cardinall de Aliaco was living in his dayes;De ſquallor. Rom. Eccleſ. p. 34. in Biblioth. Weſtmonaſterienſi. Gerſ. declaratio defect. virorū. he complaines that Pagan abuſes, and diabolicall ſuperſtitions were ſo many in the Church, that they could not be imagined.
Gerſon (Chancellor of Paris) complained of particular errors, that Images in Churches occaſioned Idolatrie; Apocryphall Scriptures were brought into the Church, to the great damage of Chriſtian Faith. Occham compē dium contr. errores Papae p. 957. Incipit Prologus.Looke into the age before him; Occham (a Frier Minorite) cries out, Alas the time of which the bleſſed Apoſtle propheſied (when men will not ſuffer wholeſome doctrine) is altogether fulfilled in our eares; For behold there are many that pervert the holy Scriptures, deny the ſayings of the holy Fathers, reject the Canons of the Church, and civill Conſtitutions of the Emperors. Looke into the age before him;Matth. Pariſ. p. 843. Groſthead (Biſhop of Lincolne) complaines that there was a defection, a revolt, an Apoſtaſie from the true Faith. Looke into Bernards time, and there you ſhall finde by his owne confeſſion,Bernard. in Cant. Serm. 33. p. (mihi) 673. The wound of the Church was inward, and paſt recoverie. Theſe former complaints and grievances in the Church did ſound aloud in the eares of the later ages, and ſhe made great mourning and lamentation for her children, becauſe they were not ſuch as ſhe firſt bred them; and accordingly no doubt they wiſhed for a reformation of errors in doctrine, as well as Diſcipline in the Church.
Looke after Pope Alexanders time, and before the Councell of Trent, and your Biſhop of Bitonto will ſhew you the ſtate and miſerable condition of your Church, as it were in a Glaſſe.In Ep. ad Roman. c. 6. Alas (ſaith he) how were the Scriptures neglected in the later Ages, to the detriment of all peple! Rivet. Sum. Controv. p. (mihi) 98.There was then in requeſt a tedious and crabbed Divinitie about Relations, about quiddities and formalities; and all thoſe things were handled and wreſted with Syllogiſmes and humane Sophiſtrie, which (without doubt) by the ſame authority as they were received, might be refelled. The whole Age was ſpent about the decrees of men, which were contradictory amongſt themſelves, and irreconcilable, and nouriſhed perpetuall contention. He was accounted the beſt Divine, that knew beſt how to deviſe the greateſt wonders for his Traditions. It was a part of their honour and vaine glory to ſpeake bigge words with great lookes among women, not to be underſtood when they diſputed of the Scriptures. The Preachers of the word were all ſworne to the word of their Maſters: and from hence ſprung ſixe hundred Sects; as namely, Thomiſts, Scotiſts, Occhamiſts, Alexandrians, &c. O heinous wickedneſſe! The Goſſpels and Epiſtles of the Apoſtles were laid aſide, true Divinitie lay hid, and was handled of very few; but coldly, I will not ſay, unfaithfully.
In what ſtate the Church remained in thoſe dayes, when Papall Traditions and cunning Sophiſtry prevailed againſt the ſacred Scriptures, let the Reader judge:Onus Eccleſiae c. 16. p. (mihi) 79 Your owne St. Francis foretold that the times were at hand, wherein many differences ſhould ariſe in the Church, when charitie ſhould waxe cold, iniquity ſhould abound, and the Divell ſhould be let looſe, and that the purity of his Roman Religion ſhould be depraved; and accordingly (ſaith my Author) the Image of the Croſſe in the Church of St. Damian ſpake unto him;Vade, repara domum meam, quae ut cernis, tota labitur. Goe and repaire my houſe which you ſee is altogether decayed. Thus Biſhops, and Friers, and Images, ſtocks and ſtones cried out of the falling away of your Church (if we may credit your owne Authors) and yet by no meanes you will aſſent to a reformation of doctrine or manners.
At Luthers firſt riſing, which was almoſt 30. yeares before the Councell of Trent, your Guicciardine tells us,Guicciard. Hiſt. lib. 13. that there were that yeare many meetings at Rome, to conſult what was beſt to be done. The more wiſe and moderate ſort wiſhed the Pope to reforme things apparently amiſſe, and not to perſecute Luther. Hieronymus Savanarola told the French King, Charles the 8. he ſhould have great proſperitie in his voyage into Italie, to the end hee ſhould reforme the ſtate of the Church, which if he did not reforme, he ſhould returne with diſhonour; and ſo (ſaith he) it fell out.
I come to the Councell of Trent it ſelfe, where you may reade many decrees for reformation, and yet neither doctrine nor manners reformed. But let us heare your owne confeſſion. It is true, the Councell indeed complaineth with great reaſon of the avarice of ſuch whom the Knight calleth the Popes Collectors, though the Councell ſpeaketh not of the Pope: but falſe it is which he ſaith, that the Councell complaineth of Indulgences, an Article of faith (as his words are.) The Councell likewiſe complaineth of many things crept into the celebration of the Maſſe, and the words of the Councell are right cited by him in Latin in the Margent, but in the Engliſh he foully corrupteth them: For in ſtead of many things, hee tranſlated many errors, which is a groſſe errour and corruption in the Knight.
Theſe be your grand exceptions to the groſſe corruptions laid unto my charge; but all this while you doe not diſcharge the accuſations laid juſtly to your Church. And in this I muſt needs ſay, you play the Hypocrite, who can diſcerne a mote in your Brothers eye, and cannot ſee a beame in your owne: Firſt therfore caſt the beame out of your own eye, and then you ſhall eaſily diſccrne without Spectacles, that the Collectors of Indulgences are the Popes Collectors, although the Pope is not mentioned in that place; and Indulgences are an Article of Faith created by that Councell, although the Councell proclaime it not an Article of Faith: ſo that (multa) many things, might well ſtand for many errors and corruptions, ſince they were errors in practiſe. Neither would I have ſet the Latin in the Margent if I had meant to corrupt them in Engliſh; and withall, if you had taken the laſt edition (as you ought to have done) you ſhould have found them in another Character, and then all your waſte words of foule corruptions, had beene needleſſe. But in this you reſemble Palladius a lewd fellow, who in like manner charged St. Hierome with falſifications and falſe tranſlations: He preacheth and publiſheth abroad (ſaith Hierome) that I am a falſarie, Hieron. ad Pā mach. de optimo genere interpret. Tom. 2.that I have not preciſely tranſlated word for word, that I, in ſtead of the word Honourable, have written theſe words, Deerely beloved: Theſe things and ſuch trifles (ſaith he) are laid unto my charge. Now heare what Anſwer St. Hierome makes; Whereas the Epiſtle it ſelfe declareth, that there is no alteration made in the ſenſe, and that there is neither matter of ſubſtance added, nor any doctrine deviſed by me, verily by their great cunning they prove themſelves fooles, and ſeeking to reprove other mens unskilfulneſſe, they betray their owne. Let us heare therefore the reſt of your Things (for ſo you will have me terme them) which are crept into your Church, and need a Reformation.
The Councell (ſay you) ſeemeth to acknowledge the avarice of Prieſts in ſaying Maſſe for mony, was not farre from Symonie. It ſpeaketh of the uſe of Muſicke, wherewith ſome wantonneſſe was mixed, as alſo of certaine Maſſes or Candles uſed in certaine number, proceeding rather from ſuperſtition than true Religion. This you confeſſe is true in your Councell, but to theſe you anſwer nothing.Concil. Trid. Seſſ. 22. Can. 9. You might have added to theſe abuſes both Superſtition and Idolatry in the Maſſe, for your Councell confeſſeth them both: and I thinke it toucheth your errors in Doctrine. But have you reformed all or any of theſe things? Is your ſuperſtitious number of Maſſes and lights in the Church abated? Are your laſcivious and wanton ſongs, ſet to the Organs, and mingled with other Church muſicke, redreſſed? Is your covetouſneſſe in Prieſts, with their Superſtition and Idolatry in the Maſſe, aboliſhed?Mirae mirae entis Res. Juvenal. Theſe corruptions are things and things (as you call them) and ſuch as I wonder your Councell was not aſhamed to confeſſe, much more to tolerate, or rather to practice in the daily ſacrifice of your Maſſe. I haſten to the Reformation in doctrine: but you tell me it is a Lye, the Councell never intended it; I inſtance in private Maſſe, Latin Service, &c. You anſwer it is moſt falſe, for the doctrine is the ſame ſtill, and ever was.
I perceive your paſſion makes you much forget your ſelfe: for your doctrine (I confeſſe) which is commonly received, is the ſame now, that was decreed in the Councell of Trent; but that it was ever the ſame, as now it is, all the Colledge of Cardinals and Jeſuits cannot prove. Looke upon your owne confeſſion in thoſe two particular inſtances: Your private Maſſe, where the Prieſt communicates alone, is not the ſame now, as it was heretofore; For (ſay you) it was the practiſe of the Primitive Church for the people to communicate every day with the Prieſt. Spectacl. pag. 191.Your Prayer in an unknowne tongue is not the ſame now as it was heretofore, for (ſay you) Prayer and Service in the vulgar Tongue was uſed in the firſt and beſt Ages; Pag. 271.and now the vulgar is become the Latin unknown tongue. Take heed therefore of theſe confeſſions, for by ſuch palpable contradictions you may loſe your Proſelytes, and bring the Lye upon your ſelfe.
Againe, you confeſſe that the Councell wiſheth that the ſtanders by did communicate, not onelyonly ſpiritually, Pag. 53.but alſo ſacramentally: and doth not your Church in this wiſh a reformation in doctrine? Doth it not in this preferre the practice of the reformed Churches before their owne, and in a manner confeſſe an error in the allowed practice of the Roman Church? Your Councell commands Paſtors that have care of ſoules, to expound that to the people, which is delivered in the Maſſe in an unknowne tongue; and doe not thoſe that require the Prieſts to expound it to the people, ſhew likewiſe that without ſuch expoſition the people are little better for the Maſſe, and that the Church intended the people ſhould underſtand it? What is this elſe, but to joyne hands with the Proteſtants, and to acknowledge a reformation needfull in your Church, for requiring Service to bee celebrated in a knowne tongue, that the people may underſtand it? But that I may make good my aſſertion, and that the Reader may know I have ſaid nothing but the truth, in affirming the Councell of Trent did make decrees for Reformation for doctrine as well as manners, looke upon the ſecond Seſsion, and tell me if they did not profeſſe a reall intention in both.Concil. Trid. Seſſ. 2. the words of the Seſsion are theſe; Whereas it is the ſpeciall care and intention of the Councell, that (the darkeneſle of Hereſie being expelled, which ſo many yeares hath covered the earth) the light and parity of the Catholicke truth may ſhine, through the helpe of Chriſt which is the true light; and that thoſe things which need reformation may be reformed; the Synod exhorteth all Catholikes aſſembled, or to be aſſembled, and eſpecially thoſe who are skilful in the ſacred Scriptures, that with continuall meditation they may diligently conſider with themſelves how theſe things may bee effected; that they may condemne thoſe things which are to be condemned, and approve thoſe things which are to be approved, that the whole world with one mouth, and confeſsion of one and the ſame faith, may glorifie God the Faiher, and our Lord Jeſus Chriſt. Take a review of the words of your Councell; Firſt, Praecipua cura & intentio, ut propulſatis errorum tenebris, quae per tot annos operiarunt terram; the chiefe care to diſpell the darkeneſſe of errour which covered the earth: which words cannot be meant of the Proteſtant doctrine. For our light is pretended by you to be lately come in, and but in a part or corner of the world. Secondly, peritiam habeant ſacrarum literarum, ut ſedulâ meditatione ſecum ipſi cogitent, &c. ut probare probanda, & damnare damnanda queant. There needed not this diligence and skill in Scriptures for Luthers Religion, for they were condemned before by the Pope. Thirdly, Nullus debeat &c. obſtinatis diſceptationibus contendere, which ſhould not be about Lutheran points, but about doctrines of their owne. Fourthly, in the third Section, de extirpandis haereſibus, &c. which (ſay they) is adverſus ſpirituales nequitias in caeleſtibus, which heavenly places are meant by their owne Church, not by Luthers, as is moſt evident. For they would never acknowledge our Churches heavenly places.
Now I pray, what thinke you of your Councels Decrees? Will not they extend to a Reformation in doctrine? or will you ſay that Hereſies in manners crept into the Church, and the moſt learned in the Scriptures were chiefly to be imployed for reforming them, that thereby there might be one Faith of Papiſts and Proteſtants through the Chriſtian world?De extirpandis haereſibus, & moribus reformandis, quorum cauſa praecipue eſt congregata. Seſſ. 3. Looke upon the third Seſsion, and there likewiſe you ſhall finde a Decree for rooting out of Hereſies in doctrine, aſwell as rectifying of manners and the diſcipline of the Church; and for both thoſe cauſes (ſaith your Decree) the Councell was principally called. It is a moſt evident truth then (howſoever you redouble the lie upon me) that the Councell did intend a Reformation in doctrine; for otherwiſe, to what end ſhould the Pope ſummon all Chriſtian Biſhops out of all Nations, even at that time when the Proteſtants were in number infinite, and had diſcovered and proclaimed the errors of the Roman Church? Beſides, to what purpoſe were thoſe diſputes and oppoſitions in the Councell againſt particular points of Doctrine, if they had not beene adjudged erroneous, and needed a reformation? But herein the Reader ſhall eaſily diſcerne the policie of your Church. At the firſt calling of the Councell (when theſe firſt Seſſions were made) the number of Biſhops were but few, (about 40.) but after the faction of the Popes creatures in multitude prevailed, all hope of reformation was abandoned; And thereupon the Biſhops of Apulia publikely declared, that the Trent Fathers were nothing elſe but the Popes creatures, and his bondſlaves; See Crakenthorpe.and accordingly there was an oath propoſed ſeverally to be taken in this manner;
I vow and ſweare true obedience to the Biſhop of Rome,Bulla Pii 4. &c. And all other things likewiſe doe I undoubtedly receive and confeſſe, which are delivered, defined, and declared by the ſacred Canons, and generall Councels, and eſpecially the holy Councell of Trent; and withall, I condemne, reject, and accurſe all things that are contrary hereunto, and all Hereſies whatſoever, condemned, rejected, and accurſed by the Church; and that I will be carefull this true Catholike faith (out of the which no man can be ſaved, which at this time I willingly profeſſe and truly hold) be conſtantly (with Gods helpe) retained and confeſſed whole and inviolate to the laſt gaſpe; and by thoſe that are under me, or ſuch as I ſhall have charge over in my calling, holden, taught and preached, to the uttermost of my power: I the ſaid N. promiſe, vow, and ſweare, So God me helpe, and his holy Goſpels.
Now what good (ſaith Dudithius) could be done in that Councell, Andr. Dudithius in Ep. ad Maximil. 2.which onelyonly numbred, but never weighed ſuffrages? Though our cauſe was never ſo good, we could not come off with victory; for to every one of us, the Pope was able to oppoſe an hundred of his owne. This Author was ſent as Ambaſſador to the Councell from the ſtate and Clergy of Hungarie, and he conſirmes what I have teſtified of their proceedings. But obſerve the myſterie of iniquitie diſplayed in your Councell, after it had continued eighteen years,Seſſ. 25. c. 1. Decre…. de Refor. p. 312. and during the lives of eight Popes, in concluſion they declared in their laſt Seſsion, contrarie to their former decree of Reformation, that the Synod was (chiefly) called for reſtoring of Eccleſiaſticall diſcipline; and hereby is plainly diſcovered their deceivableneſſe of unrighteouſneſſe; inſomuch as I may truly ſay with that learned Gentleman and Tranſlator of the Trent Hiſtorie, The Biſhops of Rome,Sir Nathaniel Brent in Ep. to the Hiſtorie of Trent. in ſtead of being Chriſts holy Vicars, as they pretend, have beene the greateſt, and moſt pernicious quackſalving Juglers that ever the earth did beare. Thoſe Biſhops therefore that boaſt of the Law of God, and make as it were a covenant with him, to renew the ancient Faith, and reſtore it to her firſt integritie (as your Trent Biſhops profeſſed) let them conſider with themſelves how neare that Propheſie of David doth concerne them, who deny a Reformation; For unto the ungodly (ſaid God) why doſt thou preach my Lawes, Pſal. 50.16, 17.and takeſt my Covenant in thy mouth, whereas thou hateſt to bee reformed, and haſt caſt my words behinde thee.