The Ancient Doctrine of the Church of England, Part 1 · Response to body of book · Chapter 2
CHAP. II. The ſumme of his Anſwer to my first Section.
THe Church of Rome, not without cauſe, bitter againſt the Reformed Churches, becauſe they are Heretikes: Theodoret is impertinently alledged: Bellarmine is falſified: The Catholike Church cannot be depraved becauſe of her promiſes. And this (ſetting aſide your reproches and impertinencies) is the ſubſtance of your ſecond Chapter, in anſwer to my firſt Section.
The Reply. Firſt you ſay in your Title, The Church of Rome not bitter againſt Heretikes.
It is true, the Church of Rome is not bitter againſt Heretikes (as you underſtand them for Proteſtants) for they are no Heretikes: but if the termes of Luthers whelpes, Hell-hounds of Zwinglius, damned perſons, and worſe than Infidels; if ſuch termes (I ſay) be Catholike complements (which your fellow Jeſuits have given us) I ſhall freely confeſſe your Charitie is miſtaken.
But (ſay you) the word Heretike, which is the worſt of all, hath ever gone with ſuch as have held new particular doctrines, 1 John 2.and ſuch St. John calleth Antichriſts.
Surely you have my aſſent and wiſhes with you, that is, that the name of Heretike may alwayes goe as it hath gone, with ſuch as teach new and Antichriſtian doctrine. But let me tell you, this deſcription of yours is a perfect Character of the Roman Church; and I verily beleeve that if all the pictures and patternes of a Papiſt were loſt in the world, they might all againe be recovered, and a Papiſt painted to the life in the deſcription of ſuch an Heretike as you here define.
Looke upon the particular doctrines of private Maſſe, your halfe Communion, your Prayer in an unknowne Tongue, and tell me if theſe be not new: why elſe doe you and your aſſociates confeſſe that the contrary Tenets were taught and revived by the Ancients? And as touching the name of Antichriſt, if that be appropriate to Heretikes, it cannot touch the members of our Church; for we make Chriſt and his Apoſtles the ſole rule of our Faith. On the other ſide, if you conſider the Pope, either as he ſits in the place of Chriſt, as his Vicar Generall,foreign is ag… Chriſt, & in the place of Chriſt as his Vicar. or as he and his adherents teach and uphold a doctrine againſt Chriſt (for the word Antichriſt imports both) without doubt they beare the markes of Antichriſt, and conſequently the word (Heretike) reflects upon your ſelves.
Caſſander tells us, there be ſome who make the Pope of Rome Almoſt a God, Caſſand. de officio Pii viri.preferring his authoritie not onelyonly above the whole Church, but above the ſacred Scriptures, holding his judgement equall to the divine Oracles, and for an infallible rule of Faith. I ſee no reaſon (ſaith he) but that theſe men ſhould be called Pſeudo-Catholikes or Papiſts. Indeed I muſt confeſſe I much wonder, that any Proteſtant ſhould give you that honourable title of Catholike, eſpecially when you terme them by the name of Heretikes.
Thoſe that have the marke of the Beaſt imprinted in their foreheads, have borrowed both the Name and Nature from him; and therefore your Cardinall tells us,Bell. de Not. Eccleſ. c. 4. The word Papiſt is derived from the Pope, ſuch as was Peter. And more particularly your Gregory Martin and the Rhemiſts give you to underſtand,Rhem. Annot. in Acts. 11.26. that to be a Papiſt, is to bee a Chriſtian man, a childe of the Church, and ſubject to Chriſts Vicar. You that are ſo inquiſitive after other mens pedigrees, ſee if with all your Heraldrie you can make good your nominal deſcent from Chriſt, and, as you ſtile him, Pope Peter.
Your Father Briſtow, Briſtow. Demand. 8.as a knowne Antiquarie in this point, gives your Father Bellarmine the lye; for he avowes it for certaine, that your name (Papiſt) was never heard of till the dayes of Pope Leo the Tenth, and this was 1500. yeares after Christ; and this opinion I am ſure is moſt probable, and more ſutable to the Noveltie of your Religion.
But (ſay you) we Catholikes ſtile the Knight and the Reformers, by the common name of Hereticks.
You told me formerly the title of (Sir) would be left for me: now you have added to the title the name of Hereticke, and you profeſſe it is the worſt word of all. It ſeemes the worſt word you have is good enough for me: But I pardon you, and I muſt let you know that the name of Catholike is as comely with the Profeſſors of your new doctrine, as a golden ring in a ſwines ſnout. And as touching the name of Hereticke wherewith you charge me, you rightly reſemble Athalia, 4 Kings 11.who when ſhee underſtood that Joas the right inheritour of the Crowne of Judah, was proclaimed King, ranne in her furie to the Temple, and cryed out, Treaſon, Treaſon, when the treaſon was not in King Joas, but in herſelfe that wrought it. Your Alphonſus à Caſtro hath written a Booke againſt the Heretickes in all ages; and in his Index haereticorum, I have ſearched diligently, and I finde the names of certaine Popes among them, but mine owne name I doe not finde: For I profeſſe with St. Auſtin, Errare poſsum, haereticus eſſe nolo, I may erre, but I will not bee an Hereticke. Shall I make my confeſſion unto you? I beleeve all things which are contained in the Scriptures, and nothing contrary or beſides them as matter of faith neceſſary to ſalvation: Cum hoc credimus, priuscred…mus, nihil amplius credendum eſſe. Tertul. Ibid.I beleeve the holy Catholicke Church. This is an Article of my Faith, and this I firſt received from the Apoſtles Creed. Next, I undoubtedly beleeve the Nicene Creed; and this was called Catholicke by thoſe holy Fathers, to diſtinguiſh the Heretikes from the Orthodoxe Chriſtians in the Primitive Church; or, according to your owne words,Chap. 1. p. 2. appointed to be publikely profeſſed by all ſuch as meant to bee counted Catholikes; Concil. Trid. Seſſ. 3.and for the ſame cauſe your Councell of Trent decreed it to be received (as a Shield againſt Hereſies) and therefore by your owne confeſſion, the Councels decree, and your Creed it ſelfe, I am free from the name of Heretike. Laſtly, I profeſſe and beleeve Athanaſius Creed, and that Holy and ancient Father witneſſeth of that confeſſion, Haec eſt fides Catholica, This is the Catholike Faith.
If therefore I beleeve the Scriptures, and Catholike Church, which teacheth the true Faith; If I beleeve the Articles of the Nicene Creed, which diſtinguiſheth the right Beleevers from the Heretikes; If I receive Athanaſius Creed, which containes the ſumme and ſubſtance of all Catholike Faith and doctrine, what remaines then why I ſhould not be exempted from the name of Heretike, unleſſe I ſhall acknowledge with you the fourth Creed publiſhed by Pope Pius the fourth, and conſequently ſubſcribe to new particular doctrines, which (as you confeſſe) doth ever accompanie the nature of Hereſie?
But the Reformers are Heretikes.
He that ſhall heare but the word (Reformers) in all probability will conceive that they were men which oppoſed ſome errors or hereſies crept into the Church, and for that cauſe deſired a Reformation. In the Churches of Corinth, Galatia, Pergamus and Thyatira there were ſome of the Sadduces opinion, who denied the Reſurrection, others that joyned Circumciſion and the workes of the Law with Chriſt, and the worke of ſalvation. The Apoſtles you know did reprove thoſe errors in their dayes, and no doubt many accordingly did reforme themſelves: Now will you condemne thoſe reformed perſons for Heretikes, becauſe they differed from the reſt with an utter diſlike of thoſe errors which the ſeduced partie retained? Surely this is the true ſtate and condition of our Church; and accordingly your Trent Fathers made a decree for Reformation in the Councell, and pretended that it was ſummoned to redreſſe Hereſies which were crept into the Church; and will you ſay, if they had redreſſed them, the Reformers had beene Heretikes?
The Rogatian Heretikes would have made the world beleeve that they were the onelyonly Catholikes; and the Arrian Heretikes called the true Chriſtians, ſometimes Ambroſians, ſometimes Athanaſians, ſometimes Homo…ſians. And in this manner St. Paul himſelfe was called before the Judges to make anſwer to matter of Hereſie, and according to this way which you call Hereſie, Acts 24.ſo worſhip we the God of our Fathers, beleeving all things which are written in the Law and the Prophets.
They that ſo raſhly pronounce and call every thing Hereſie, are often ſtricken with their owne dart, Alph. de Hereſ. l. 1. c. 7.(ſaith your owne Alphonſus) and fall into the ſame pit which themſelves have digged for others: Hee ſhewes therefore by way of concluſion what hee would have called Hereſie.Ibid. This would I rather call Hereſie (ſaith he) to accompt mens writings among the Scriptures of God; and ſo doe they that thinke it a wicked matter to diſſent from the writings of man, no leſſe than it were the judgements of God. Now that your men are guilty of ſuch Hereſies in the higheſt degree, appeares by his owne confeſſion;Ibid. l. 1. c. 2. p. 14. for he complaines of Gratian, who did inſert the Popes decretall Epiſtles amongſt the holy Scriptures, as if they were of equall authoritie with them: and he ſpeakes as an eare witneſſe of others, who in their publicke Sermons have declared, that whoſoever ſhall diſſent from the opinion of St. Thomas, is to be cenſured for an Hereticke. O fortes verbi Dei Praecones! O powerfull Preachers of the word of God (ſaith he;) or rather I may truly ſay of St. Thomas doctrine, l. 1. c. 7.for by this meanes it will come to paſſe, that bleſſed Bonaventure muſt be cenſured of hereſie, Ibid. p. (mihi) 31.for he croſſeth St. Thomas; and bleſſed Anſelme muſt be ſuſpected of Hereſie, becauſe contrary to Thomas opinion, he thinketh him not a lover of our bleſsed Virgin who refuſeth to celebrate the Feaſt of her Conception.
As this Author wrote a tract againſt Hereticks, ſo likewiſe he profeſſeth that the head of the Roman Church, as well as the members are ſubject to that capitall accuſation whereof you accuſe the Reformers, and particularly he doth inſtance from Platina in Pope Liberius for an Arrian Hereticke, and Pope Anaſtaſius for a favourer of the Neſtorian Heretickes, and withall hee reſolves the queſtion (which without all queſtion is ſo to bee reſolved) that the Pope (which you make one of the infallible Rules of your Faith) may become an Hereticke.
You ſhall doe well therefore to forbeare your name [Catholicke] till you can free your Pope and his adherents from the markes of Heretickes. In the meane time I might more juſtly retort your owne words, cum faenore, into your owne boſome, and ſay, We Reformed Catholickes, not onelyonly ſtile, but prove J. R. and the Romaniſts to be rightly ſtiled by the common name of Heretickes.
I proceed to the reſt of your accuſations; Theodoret (ſay you) is wholly impertinent. Bellarmine his meaning is abuſed, and his words corrupted. Firſt touching Theodoret: his proofe (notwithſtanding your exception) ſtands good; for if the agreement of both parties in the Nicene Councell, in his judgement, ought to have allayed the heate of contention in the Church of Antioch, I might well conclude much more, that the three Creeds, and the firſt foure Generall Councels (wherein both ſides agree) ought to have abated the edge of your ſharpe and bitter Invectives againſt our Church. And as for abuſing of Bellarmine, I aſſure you it was farre from my thoughts; and you cannot be ignorant that the inference, according to true meaning, ſtandeth thus. If Proteſtants beleeve and hold all things neceſſarie for all Chriſtians, then are they not to be accompted damned perſons, and worſe than Infidels: But they beleeve the Apoſtles Creed, they teach the ten Commandements, and adminiſter ſome few Sacraments, which in your Cardinals opinion are thoſe things which are ſimply neceſſarie for all to know and beleeve; and to this argument you anſwere nothing, but you quarrell about words. When I tranſlate [nonnulla] a few Sacraments, you ſay I falſifie Bellarmine, for the word (few) is not there; and yet you know well, that by nonnulla hee doth not meane omnia, Nonnulla is a diminutive terme ſignifying not none, that is, ſome, be they never ſo fevv.and therefore thoſe which he meaneth are but few. The word utilia is in the ſame place of Bellarmine; and as for other words added or left out, they alter not the ſenſe, nor are wee bound preciſely to the words, but to the ſenſe, in tranſlating a paſſage out of any Author.
But (ſay you) what man ever tooke Babylon for a true Church?
If by Babylon you underſtand literally the ancient Citie of Chaldea, or that famous City in Aegypt, once called by the name of Memphis, and now of Cair, you know well that it is not my meaning ſo to take it; (for you confeſſe that I otherwiſe expreſſe my ſelfe:) but that a particular Church (as namely your Church of Rome, which was ſometimes a ſound, that is, a right-beleeving Church) may afterwards fall into Hereſie, and become ſpirituall and myſticall Babylon, this is not onelyonly my aſſertion, but your Romaniſts and fellow Jeſuites in the Church of Rome.
Ribera your fellow Jeſuite of Salamanca in Spaine, tells us by way of prevention; If Rome ſhall commit the ſame things hereafter which ſhe committed in the time of John, ſhe ſhall be called Babylon againe; as it was in the caſe of Hieruſalem, which of a faithfull City once, became afterwards a Harlot. And according to the Propheſie of St. John, he proteſteth in this manner; We know this truth ſo perſpicuouſly by the words of the Revelation, Ut ne ſtultiſſimus quidem negare poſſit, that the verieſt foole cannot deny the ſame. Then he concludes,Riberae Comment. in Apoc. 14. v. 8. in c. 14. num. 31. n. 32. Since Babylon ſhall be the ſhop of all Idolatrie, and of all impieties, therefore it cannot be doubted, but that this ſhall be the condition of Rome hereafter.
I will come nearer to you: Your Monke Sigebert about 500. yeares agoe interpreting the words of St. Peter (The Church at Babylon ſalutes you) delivereth this doctrine:Sigeb. Ep. p. (mihi) 188. in. l. Goldaſti Replic. Hitherto Peter by Babylon did ſignifie Rome, becauſe Rome at that time was confounded with Idolatrie and all uncleanneſſe; but my griefe doth now interpret unto mee, that Peter by a Propheticke ſpirit, by the Church of Babylon, foreſaw the confuſion of diſſention with which the Church of Rome at this day is rent in pieces.
Honorius Biſhop of Anthun in France, ſpeaking of the fall of the Church of Rome, not long after the ſame time, cryes out to the members of his Church,Honor. Anguſt. in Dial. de Praedeſt. & l. arbit. Turne to the Citizens of Babylon, and ſee what they are; behold the buildings of that damned Citie, conſider the principall perſons there, and thou ſhalt finde the See of the Beast. Thus you ſee the firſt Babylonian tels what he feared would come to paſſe in the Church of Rome hereafter; but theſe two later proclaimed openly that Rome was become Babylon many hundred yeares ſince, and for their loud cries their tongues are now cut out by the command of your Inquiſitors.
How undeſervedly were theſe men puniſhed and forbidden to ſpeake the truth, let the Reader judge; but that which is obſervable, you raze the Records which teſtifie for us; you forbid them to ſpeake, if it make againſt your Church, and then you demand of us, What man ever tooke Babylon for Rome?
I will give you one witneſſe more, who is ancient and beyond exception, who ſpake (as it were prophetically) of the Church of Rome in her moſt flouriſhing ſtate. St. Hierome writing to Marcella, a noble Lady, exhorteth her to depart from Rome, which he compares to Babylon. Hier. ad Marcel. Ep. 17. Tō. 1. p. (mihi) 156.Reade (ſaith he) the Revelation of St. John, and conſider that which is there ſaid of the woman clothed in purple, of the blaſphemy written in her forehead, of the ſeven Mountaines, of the great waters, of the fall of Babylon: Goe out from thence my people, Babylon is falne, and is become the habitation of Divels, and the hold and cage of every foule ſpirit.
Now that wee might underſtand this was not ſpoken by him of heathen Rome, he adjoyneth theſe words following: Eſt quidem ibi ſancta Eccleſia: There is a true or holy Church, there are the Trophies of the Saints and Martyrs, there is the true confeſsion of Chriſt publiſhed by the Apoſtle. Ludovicus Vives your very friend, in commenting upon this place, tells us, that St. Hierome thinketh there is no other Babylon deſcribed by St. John in the Revelation than the City of Rome; But now (ſaith he) it hath put off the name of Babylon,Lud. Vives in Auguſt. de Civ. Dei, l. 18. c. 22. there is no confuſion now; you cannot buy any thing now in matter of Religion, without a faire pretence of holy Law for ſelling it, yet may you buy or ſell almoſt any kinde of cauſe holy or helliſh for money. In D. Auguſt. Annot. Ludov. Vives prohibentur niſi corrigantur. Ind. l. prohibit. Claſſ. 2.For this and the like paſſages, your Vives is forbidden till hee be purged.
I muſt confeſſe I doe not thinke that the Rhemiſts would have interpreted Babylon for Rome, if it had not beene to prove Peters being at Rome: It is happy therefore for you that Peter wrote his Epiſtle from Babylon, for otherwiſe your ſucceſſion from Peter had beene queſtioned; and it is as well for us that you are contented to allow Babylon for Rome, for by this meanes your Antichriſtian Doctrine is diſcovered, and your ſucceſſion of Peters faith is quite aboliſhed.
But (ſay you) if you meane as you expreſſe your ſelfe, that a true Church may bee depraved, I know not what to ſay, but to ſtop my eares againſt that mouth of blaſphemie: And is it blaſphemie to ſay, a true Church may be depraved? Sure I am it is not blaſphemie againſt the holy Ghoſt; for the mouth of St. Paul hath ſpoken it in parricular to the Roman Church, even at that time when ſhe was a moſt incorrupt Church; Towards thee goodnes, Rom. 11.22.if thou continue in his goodneſſe, otherwiſe thou alſo ſhalt be cut off: And may not a Church (thinke you) be depraved, that is in poſſibility of being cut off? What thinke you of the Church of Hieruſalem? Pſalm. 48.19.Did not the Prophet David terme it the City of God? and was it not afterwards termed a Harlot by the Prophet Eſay? What ſay you to the Temple of Solomon? was it not termed by him,1 Kings. 8.20. the houſe of Prayer? and in Chriſts time was not that houſe of Prayer become a denne of Theeves? Mat. 21.14.He that ſayes Antichriſt ſhall ſit in the Temple of God, doth plainely intimate, that the true Church may be depraved, and that before his comming there was a true Church.In his anſwer to Card. Peron. p. 9. Eng. What Babylon is (ſaith learned Caſaubon) thus much the matter it ſelfe doth plainly ſhew, that whether ſome private Church be underſtood in that place by the name of Babylon, or the greater part of the whole, it was before this a true Church, with which the religious might religiouſly communicate; but after it was more depraved, the religious are commanded to goe out, and to breake off communion with her. And as touching the authority you cite, that he would be with them to the worlds end, that the Church is built upon a Rocke, that the gates of Hell ſhould not prevaile againſt it; theſe promiſes (I ſay) concerne no more the particular Roman Church, than the ſeven Churches of Aſia that are falne away. The blaſphemie then you lay to my charge (if any ſuch be) is but againſt your Roman Church, and of ſuch blaſphemie many of your beſt learned are guilty, in acknowledging a depravation of their faith, (notwithſtanding all the promiſes of Chriſt to the Catholicke and univerſall Church.)
Your Biſhop of Bitonto by way of prevention cryes aloud in your Councell of Trent, Cornel. in Concil. Trident.Would to God they were not wholly with generall conſent gone from religion to ſuperſtition, from faith to infidelitie, from Christ to Antichriſt. I could bring you a world of complaints againſt the falling away and depravation of your Roman Faith, but that your eares will not endure ſuch blaſphemie. Howſoever, ſince your beſt learned have acknowledged Babylon to bee meant by Rome, and that Rome is falne from her firſt faith,Jerem. 51.6.9. I ſay with the Prophet Jeremie, Fly out of the midſt of Babylon, and deliver every man his ſoule; we would have healed Babylon, but ſhe is not healed; forſake her, and let us goe everie one into his owne Country, for her judgement reacheth unto Heaven, and is lifted up even unto the skies.