Light for Smoke, Section 16
SECT. XVI. Of the Preſbyteriall and Independent Government how affected; the ſlow proceeding of the Church Government made no Argument for it, nor mentioned to the disparagement of the Parliament; Mr. Saltm. brings the Parliaments Authority under popular liberty; of the wheat in Independent Congregations.
Smoke. Pag. 38. PRove your Argument (Government, you would ſay) firſt to be Chriſts, the particulars and entireneſſe accordingly, and then I ſhall allow you your Argument; but you grant it to be but partly Chriſts, partly the Aſſemblies, or of prudence.
Light.It is no part of mine undertaking to prove the Presbyteriall Government to be Chriſts Government, nor is it needfull ſo to doe; for I have told you where it is done already, which no man hath refuted nor can doe; nor is it needfull to aſſert every part of it by expreſſe Scripture; and if the Independent platforme be according to the pure Goſpel patterne, as you phraſe it, why have not your Brethren cleared that doubt all this while, having been ingaged thereto by promiſe, and often called upon for performance thereof?
Smoke. Pag. 38. To your laſt that the Reformation hath proceeded by ſlow paces, and degrees; What, would you prove it by its ſlow proceeding to bee Chriſts Government, and therefore to be ſetled? that were a ſtrange kinde of reaſoning.
Light.I ſee it is not ſtrange with you to miſtake, or pervert a plaine truth; for did not you plead againſt the ſpeedy ſetling of the Presbyterian Government by the example of Chriſt? and was not minepSee Sect. 8. p. 23. of mine Examination. Anſwer to this purpoſe, Chriſt was not ſo long in ſetling of his Government, nor the Parliament and Aſſembly ſo haſty as you pretended. Is this a proofe of mine opinion, I pray you, or a confutation of yours?
Smoke. Pag. 41. Why ſhould you ſpeake of the Governments fluttering on a limetwigge at Weſtminſter? ſure the State or Parliament may deſerve better of any of the Aſſembly, then to be thought their Retarders or limetwigs.
Light.Here you make as if I ſpake without due reſpect, or rather with termes of reproach unto the State or Parliament, for bringing in the Government as fluttering upon the limetwigge at Weſtminſter; and thereupon you ſay, Sure the State or Parliament may deſerve better of any of the Aſſembly then to be thought their Retarders or limetwigs: and you ſtrive to ſtraine up the words to an higher degree of guilt, by an aggravation of ingratitude, in that they have honoured them above their Brethren.
To which I anſwer: Firſt, that my words, Sect. 9. p. 26. are theſe; It hath been, if not the fault, yet the ill hap of our Church and State, to have the Government fluttering upon the limetwig of deliberation at Weſtminſter, when it ſhould be upon the wing of actuall execution all over the Kingdome.
Secondly, that if I had miſtaken termes of diminution of the dignitie of the Parliament, for termes of honour, and gratefull acknowledgement, there is no reaſon that for my fault the Aſſembly ſhould be involved in the imputation of an offence; ſince I did not write by any either command from them, or conſultation with them.
Thirdly, confining the charge to my ſelfe, I may challenge you for a fayling in charity, and memorie. Firſt, in charitie, in that you make ſo ill a conſtruction of my words both really, and perſonally; really interpreting the limetwig in a ſence of defilement, whereas I meant it onelyonly as a let and impediment; (which may befall the deliberations of the beſt and wiſeſt men) and perſonally, in turning the terme upon the State or Parliament, in an offenſive ſignification towards them, whom I never meant, nor mentioned with a thought or expreſſion of diſparagement. Secondly, in memory, in that you forgate a precedent paſſage in my Booke, which might (had you remembred it) have prevented ſuch a ſiniſter ſurmiſe of the metaphor I uſed; my words which manifeſtly hold out a confutation of your corrupt gloſſe on theſe now in queſtion, are theſe,
Yet they cannot make that ſpeed with the Government which by moſt is deſired, and very much deſired by themſelves (as we of the Aſſembly can witneſſe who have often beene ſent to by that Honourable Senate to quicken our worke, and to ripen our debates to a full reſolution) becauſe as with us the libertie of ſpeaking (wherein every one is frce to propoſe and proſecute any doubt) prolonged the Government in our hands; ſo the like libertie in the Honourable Honſes (or rather our libertie is like theirs, it being the prototypon) longthens the debates, and delayes the votes of that moſt Honourable Senate; and ſo much the more, becauſe they are more in number then we in our Synod, and becauſe their determinations are finall as ours are not.
But when you have made the worſt ſence you can of them, you come in with this allay; it may be you call your diſſenting Brethren the limetwigs. I doe not that neither, for I doe not ſo confound perſons and things as to meane men to be the limet wigs, but their deliberations, objections, and obſtructions that ſtep in, and keepe out deciding votes, and reſolutions of debates; wherein if I mean your Independent Brethren had their part, and fault, I doe them no wrong; but then you make as if I wronged my ſelfe, defiling my argument with a limetwigge and be wraying our ſlow proceeding to have beene rather of conſtraint then conſcience; which is a me are inconſequence, for we neither endeavoured, nor deſired ſuch a precipitation of concluſions as ſhould not admit of neceſſary or competent conſideration, and diſcuſſion beforchund; nor ſuch a ſlowneſſe of proceeding as ſhould wiredraw a diſpute for a weeke or a fortnight, which would not have taken up one whole day, if there had not beene ſome ſuch among us asqRem planam argumentatione facere dubiam. Hieron. adverſ. Ruffin. Tom. 2. operum p. 217. Hierome tax…th for cavilling a cleare truth into abſcuritie.
And now I have cleared my ſelfe of your imputation of diſreſpect to the State, or Parliament, I may rooriminate ſome contempt in you towards that moſt Honourable Aſſembly.
For, Firſt, you ſeeme to thinke it a matter of praiſe to your partic, thatrSo in your Letter to me. you are more on the Magiſtrates ſide then the Magiſtrate on yours; as if the Magiſtrate were bound to tolerate your way againſt law, and the pence and union of Church and State, as much as you are bound to allow them their power, and authoritie for preſervation of the publicke welfare.
Secondly. In your deſigne for Pence, (as farre as you dare) you project a way to decline the Magiſtrates Authoritie about religious matters, which an adviſed Reader may perceive, though your termes be very cunningly choſen, and covertly couched together, where you ſay,ſSmoke. p. 4. nu. 13. Let not aboſe beleevers who have the advantage of the Magiſtrate, ſtriue to make any unwarrantable uſe of it one againſt another, becauſe Scripture principles are not ſo cleare for it.
Thirdly, you for your part caſt a notorious calumnie upon the Parliament; callingtIbid. p. 25. the maint enance of the Miniſters by Tythes undeniably Iewiſh and Popiſh, which are confirmed by Ordinance of Parliament, whereof you cannot be ignorant; and it cannot be avoided if Tythes be of that nature, but that you make the Parliament Patrones of Iudaiſme and Popery, and that is ſuch a notorious reproach, as you ſhould not have entertained in your moſt ſecret thoughts, nor whiſpered in the care of any friend, much leſſe have proclaimed it in Print, in ſuch peremptory termes as you have done.
Fourthly, you give up the Magiſtrates Authoritie to the peoples libertie, leaving it in their choice to receive, or refuſe Church-government, as they like or diſlike it; for thus you would have it propounded unto them,uSmoke. p. 14. People, here is a Government, which to ſome of us ſeemeth to be a government according to the Word of God, take it and examine it, if you be ſo perſwaded, and if the Word of God hold it forth clearely, embrace it; if not, doe not obey any thing in blinde and implicite obedience; this were faire dealing with conſcience. But it were foule dealing with the Magiſtrate, yea and the people too, for it would bring all to Anarchie and confuſion, as Iudg. 17.6. If you ſay, you meane it in reſpect of the Aſſembly or Miniſters, they preſent it not to the people untill the Parliament have ratified it by their Authoritie; and ſo your meaning muſt be, that they ſhould put that to the peoples choice, which the Parliament hath concluded in their Votes, and impoſed both on Miniſters, and people by their civill Sanction; and what is this but to ſubject the Supreame Authority to the popular liberty?
Smoke. Pag. 44. You ſay we gather out the wheat, it is well you obſerve we have wheat amongſt us, which ſome of your Brethren will ſcarce allow ut, and you very hardly.
Light.Truly Sr. if you came truly by your wheat I would allow it you; but though I allow that you have wheat in fact, I ſay you have not that wheat in right, which you have gathered out of other Churches; for your gatherings are upon the grounds of Browniſme, with injury and calumnie of the Churches from whence your covenanted members are collected.