Disputations Concerning Matters of Religion, Discourse · Chapter 2

Disputations Concerning Matters of Religion · Discourse · Chapter 2

p. 12CHAP. II. Of a contrary diſpoſition in ſome too much addicted to diſputation; in being too forward to make or accept of offers of diſpute, and multiplying of needleſſe and preſumptuous queſtions and reſolutions in matters of Religion.

IN the precedent chapter we have ſhewed how averſe from, or adverſe to diſputations in matters of Religion, ſome have been, how far, and for what reaſons: There are others (of another mind) ſo diverſe from them, or contrary to them, that their difference maketh a juſter ground of diſpute then diverſe others which are drawn out into many and long debates. There have been and are ſome men (to pretermit with contempt that daring Bedlamite““Theaura John taking upon him to be high Prieſt of the Jewes, ſet up a challenge to both the Univerſities of Oxford & Cambr. and proclaimed it with a three-fold O yes to anſwer his printed Dotages in Pauls-Church. April. 5. 1652. Theaura Iohn) who having an high opinion of their own good parts for knowledge and utterance, think their eminence cannot be ſufficiently known, nor they enough admired and honoured without publick oftenſion, I might ſay oſtentation, of it in a polemicall concertation. This was the humour p. 13ofddLeontinus Gorgius primus auſus eſt in conventu poſcere quaeſtionem, id eſt, jubere dacere quadere quis velit audere; audax negotium dicerem & impudent, niſi, &c. Cicer. de finibus bonor. & malor. l. 2. princip. libri. Gorgius Leontinus, of whom the Roman orator noteth, that he was the firſt that took upon him to demand a queſtion, that is, to aske the people what queſtion they deſired to be diſputed, and they ſhould preſently heare him diſpute and diſcourſe of it. A bold buſineſſe, ſaith the orator, I would ſay an impudent too, but our later Philoſophers have taken example by him for the like undertaking. And if not by imitation of heathen Philoſophers, yet by naturall corruption have divers Chriſtian profeſſors been puffed up to the like degree of vain glory; being proud of thoſe preeminences for which by the Apoſtles admonition and caution they ſhould have been rather humble and thankfull: for he would have none to be puffed up againſt another for any abilities they have and others have not, 1. Cor. 4.6. and he pathetically expoſtulateth with ſuch as think too well of themſelves, and diſdain others: who maketh thee to differ from another (ſaith he,) and what haſt thou that thou didſt not receive? now if thou didſt receive it, why boaſtest thou as if thou hadſt not received it? v. 7. that is, as if it were thine own of thy ſelf, without being beholding to another, eſpecially to God, who might have made him whom thou contemneſt glorious, and thee contemptible. It is probable that Iohn Picus Earle of Marandula (ſo much admired for wit and learning, as that he is ſtiled,eeTheologorum & philoſopho… ſine controverſia principis ſic in titularipag. operum cudit. Baſil. quam Sebaſt cam. Henric Petriann. 1519. without controverſie, the Prince of Divines and Philoſophers) might be lifted up with appreheaſion of his own excellent endowments, and the applauſe of men when he put forth a kind of challenge to the Chriſtian world, to dispute ffNengentas de divinis & naturalibus quaeſtiones propoſui, ad quas in publico doctiſſimorum hominum conſeſſu eſſem responſurus. John Pici Mirand. Apol. Tom. 1. operum p. 76.upon 900. The ologicall and Philoſophicall queſtions at Rome, and in any of them to be ready to be reſpondent to any opponent: wherein though ſome commended his ſtudiouſneſſe of good arts, yet did his offer giveggObtrectatorum turba multiplex aſſurrexit. Nonnulli me audacem dicere & temerarium, qui hac aetate, quartum ſcilicet & vigeſimum nondum natus annum, de altiſſimis Philoſophiae locis, de emnibus Chriſtianae Theologiae myſteriis, &c. Ibid. p. 1677. great offence unto many that accounted him an audacious and temerarious young man, who (not yet fully of age of 24 yeares) durſt propoſe a diſputation, of the profound points of Philoſophy, of the ſublime myſteries of Chriſtian Theology, of unknown arts and diſciplines in ſo famous a City, and ſo ample and numerous an aſſembly of learned men. And much more oppoſition p. 14and reproch he met withall: for his (at leaſt) ſuppoſed preſumption,hhCum nuper Romam veniſſem, pedes ſū mi pontificis Innocentii ectavi, cui ab innocentia vitae nomen, meritiſſimè de more oſculaturus. Ibid. princip. Alpo. p. 76. which gave them juſt occaſion to ſuſpect, (though he were ſo ſuperſtitionſly humble as to come to Rome to kiſſe the Popes foot) and ſeemingly ſo religiouſly lowly as to ſhew himſelf ſeriouſly affected with the fore-cited ſaying of the Apoſtle, 1 Cor. 4.7.iiQuid habemus quod noſtrum ſit? nonne cuncta quae in nobis ſunt Dei ſunt? quid ergo oporter ſe extollere magni facere oſtentare? glorietur qui gloriatur in Domino &c. John Pic. Mirand. Tom. 2. de ſtudio divinae & humanae Philoſoph. l. 2. c. 6. p. 25. what have we (ſaith he) that is ours? are not all things that are in us the things of God? why then ſhould any one extoll, magnifie, or boast himſelf of any thing he hath? but let him that glorieth, glory in the Lord, ſince all good things are his and by his infinite grace and goodneſſe beſtowed upon us. Whether he thought ſeriouſly of this, when he made his challenge forementioned, we cannot determine, nor will we conjecture: But there are ſome, of whoſe forwardneſſe to diſpute we can have no good conceit, as of Felix the Manichean Heretick, who provoked Auguſtine (the renowned Biſhop of Hippo) to publick diſpute; whereto he was ſo unprepared, that it was a doubt to him that publiſhed the report of what paſſed betwixt them,kkNeſcio quid potiſſimum admirer, Feliciſne impudentiam qui provocavit ad publicam diſputationem, ad quam adeo non fuit inſtructus ut vix aſinus potuit inſulſius argumentari; an populi tolerantiam; an Auguſtini ſtomachum invincibilem; qui tam… indoctis ineptiis tam diu tanta lenitate reſponderit: ſic in Praefat. ad lect or de art. cum Felici Manichae. poſt finem lib. 2. Tom. 6. p. 651. operum Auguſtin. whether were more to be admired, the impudence of Felix braying, rather then disputing; or the patience of the people, hearing his abſurd arguings without tumult; or the invincible ſtomach of Auguſtine, who with ſuch lenity continued ſo long to anſwer his unlearned follies. Of this over-eager affection to diſſenting altercation, we find many examples among the Romaniſts, as Iohn Eccius (whomllJohannes Eckius vel Eccius catholicae ſidei adverſus Lutherum ac reliquos haereticos propugnatur inſignis Antipoſſevinus Appa. Sacri. Tom. 1. p. 871. Poſſevine commends for a notable Champion againſt Luther and other Hereticks, who when a diſputation was appointed at Ratiſhon, ann. 1541. betwixt Iulius Pilugius, Iohannes Gropperus, and himſelf for the popiſh party, and Philip Melancthon, Martin Bucer, and Iohn Piſtorius, for the Proteſtants,mmIlli verecundèſe excuſant, & ut alii magis idonei conſtituantur petunt omnes praeter Eccium, is enim paratü ſe diccbat & inſtructū. Sleidan. Cōment. l. 13. p. 279. all but Eccius, modeſtly deſired to be excuſed, and intreated that others more fit might be appointed to diſcuſſe the points in difference betwixt them; p. 15but he ſaid he was ready prepared for the purpoſe, yet it was to little purpoſe; for though he were ſo hot upon the matter, God took him off with another heart fornnAliquanto poſt in febrim incidit, it a quidem ut intereſſe non poſſet. Sleid. Ibid. 14. princip. lib. p. 281. he ſeized on him with a feaver, and thereby ſerved him with a prohibition, that he could not be preſent; of him it is to be noted that though he were ſo forward to diſpute, he wrote one diſcourſe againſt diſputing with Hereticks, andooSee Poſſevinus ubi ſuprà. another that Hereticks were to be burned: which ſheweth that he would not have their minds enligthned with inſtruction, but their bodies inflamed to deſtruction by burning faggots reared round about them. Iohn Cochlens his mate in malignity to Proteſtant truths, was ſo vehemently and confidently bent, (by diſputation) to oppoſe ſuch as profeſſed themſelves Proteſtants, that he offered himſelf to diſpute with any Lutheran, upon perill to loſe his life if he failed in his proofs; but his confidence is the leſſe, to be regarded, becauſe as he perſecuted truth;ppEccius commentar. rerum inde geſtarum ann. 1531. p. 271. under the name of Hereſie ſo he publiſhed Hereſy under the title of truth for he was the firſt that ſet forth the workes of Iohannes Maxentins qqCochleus opera Johannis Maxentii ſub. nomine orthodoxi patris primus edidit. Tom. 4. Biblioth Patr. p. 433.as an orthodox father whom ſome of his own ſide, (more learned then himſelf, as Margarinus Dola Bigne) have ſince dicovered to be anrrOpera Maxentii cautiſſimè legenda, nec illis fidendum, cùm lateat Eutychianae haereſeos venenum. Ib. &c. p. 445. Entychian Heretick, as the reader may ſee in the fourth tome of Bibliotheca Patrum: the Eutychian hereſie acknowledged but one nature in Chriſt, and that was the divine, and ssAlphonſus de caſtro adverſus haereſes lib. 4. titulo de Chriſti haereſ. 4 col. 4278.held that our bodies at the reſurrection ſhall be more ſubtill then the wind, ſo that they ſhall neither be ſeen nor felt. After Eccius and Cochleus was ſet up the ſect of the Ieſuits, which ſome place upon the yearttIbid. l. 13. titulo de reſurrectione, haereſ. 2. col. 906. 1530. ſome inuuBuccalzer. Jud. Chronol. p. 534. 1540. Among them none ever ſet a bolder face upon ſo bad a cauſe as thewwLudov. Lucius Hiſt. Jeſuit, c. 1. p. 1. Ieſuit Edmund Campian did; who made a thraſonicall challenge to diſpute with the Ʋniverſities of England, reducing the reaſons of his diſpute to ten heads, which Poſſevine (a fiery-ſpirited Ieſuit, for the good liking he hath of them, and fearing (in time) ſo ſmall a book as they made might be loſt, incorporated into his““See Poſſevinus Bibliotheca ſelect. part. p. 309. ad 324. firſt part of his Bibliotheca Selecta. In theſe reaſons of his offer, he p. 16ſeemes cum ratione inſanire, to be mad with ſuch a miſtake atheirs who think they have reaſon, when they kill Chriſts ſervants, to think they do him ſervice, John 16.2.

His confident expreſſions in his cauſe, argue either a ſtrange impoſture of a deluding ſpirit, or a braſen impudence of a bragging Jeſuit,xxSi hoc praeſtitero, coelos eſſe. Sanctoseſſe, fidem eſſe, Chriſtum eſſe, cauſam obtinui. Camp. in Epiſt. Academicis Oxonii florentibus. Ib. 320. If I do make good (ſaith he) that there is an Heaven, that there be Saints, that there is faith, that there is a Ghriſt; I have won the victory. yyPatres ſi quando licebit accedere, confectum eſt praelium; tam ſunt noſtri quàm Gregorius ipſe 13. filiorum Eccleſiae pater amantiſſimus … Ibid. ratione 5. p. 315.If we come to try our differences by the fathers, the war is at an end; they are as certainly ours as Pope Gregorie the thirteenth, a moſt loving Father of the Children of the Church: But when he was diſputed within the Tower, ann. 1581. he that was ſo loud and vigorous in his challenge, was ſo low and feeble in performance, that it gave them cauſe to conceive who had well obſerved them both,zzSee Alex. Nowell and Will: Dayes Preface before the diſpute printed ann. 1583. that the book was none of his which was publiſhed in his name; howſoever he that reads his challenge, and the true relations of the diſpute or conference fore-mentioned, will find that his rhetorick was more plauſible in the one, then his logick powerfull in the other; ſo that we can neither ſay (according to Sampſons riddle) out of the ſtrong came ſweetneſſe, Judges 14.14. Nor out of the ſweetneſſe came ſtrength. For it was his weakneſſe of judgement to take ſo great a burden on him as he was nor able to bear, and the weakneſſe of his cauſe and judgment both, which ſuffered it to ſink when he took it into protection, and undertook to ſupport it againſt ſo many vigorous Aſſailants as he provoked to oppoſe it; when one learned man was able to turn that counterfeit Divine into a meer Thraſo, his reaſons into bubbles, his threats into trifles and vapours of vaniſhing ſmoke;““Campianum ita fregit Whitakerus, ut omnes ſanae mentis facile viderent ementitum Theologum in verum Thraſonem, rationes in ampullas, deni que omnes minas in meras nugas & fumum leviſſimum evanuiſſe. Melch. Adamus in vita Whitakeri part. poſter. p. 169. as Melchior Adamus very fitly ſetteth forth his folly and foile.

There have been ſome women who have ſo much forgotten the frailty and modeſty of their ſex, as to make chattings to learned men for diſputation in matters of Religion; of this there is a memorable ſtory, but how true it is I cannot tell, becauſe p. 17cauſe I have it but upon the report ofaaParſons in the Preface to his report of 10. diſp. p. 29, 30. added to the third part of his treatiſe intituled the 3 converſions of England. a Ieſuit, (who howſoever moſt highly honoured by his ſect, is for his manybbSee the glorious Elogium of Robert Parſons in Capitall Letters in. Philip. Alagamb. Bibliotheca. Societat. Jeſu p. 414. falſities, and ſome forgeries, of little credit among the Proteſtants,) which is this: In the year of Chriſt 403. Acertain wilfull woman, of the City of Antioch, named Julia, infected with the abominable hereſie of the Manichees, and fervent therein, came to the City of Gaza, whereof Saint Porphyrius, an holy learned man, was Biſhop; and beginning there to pervert Chriſtians, and being reprehended for it by the Biſhop, ſhe challenged him to an open diſputation, which the good man admitted, ſhe behaved her ſelf ſo inſolently as was intolerable: what the iſſue and effect was, is to be obſerved under another title. Another example I had occaſion to note in a letter to a worthy Lady, of a woman for her learning above moſt of her ſort, or ſex, her name was Argala, a Proteſtant, of whomccGretzer. Tom. 1. defenſ. Bellarm. lib. 2. c. 51. Col. 833, 834. Gretzer the Jeſuit reports that ſhe ſent a challenge to Eckius, (of whom we have ſpoken before) to diſpute with him, who not ſo patient as the Biſhop forementioned, ſent her a diſtaſſe and spindle, to put her upon employment more proper to her Sex. It had been more to her commendation, if ſhe had been as learned as the noble Virgin Anna Maria a Schur-man, to have been as modeſt and ſilent as ſhe was, who needed theddImmortale virginū decus, cùm nihil natura tibi denegaverit, ac omnia detulerit eruditio, videris tamen latere velle, & comitem rectè factorum gloriam repudiare: totnè linguas calles, ut ſileas? totnè diſciplinis generoſum iſtum inſtruxiſti animū, ut unitas agiter inglorius artes? 2. Sic Joh. Beverovicius Epiſt. ad illam p. 5. illius libri edit. 1641. Lugd. Batav. urgent perſwaſions of learned men, to let her learning be known for the benefit of others: and thougheeQuod tibi nunc offertur ſpecimen faeliciſſimi ingenii virginis quae patem non habet, exiguum eſt ſi cum iis quae effecta habet & parata, comparetur: ſed pro ea qua eſt modeſtia, &c. Ibid. p. 7. ſhe have written much, worthy to be committed to publick view; yet ſuch was her modeſty, that not without much importunity, that little which is printed was extorted from her, which had not been obtained of her but that ſome had anticipated her conſent by precedent publication. I can find but few ſuch examples to commend to the imitation of women; and I need not bring more of ſuch extravagants from Chriſtian moderation, and female modeſty, as ſome fore-noted; ſince our age hath afforded many hereticall viragoes, who have dared to ſet upon Preachers in their pulpits on the Sabbath day, in full Congregations; taking upon them not onelyonly to be opponents of their Doctrine, but to be judges both of it p. 18and them, which offices they uſurped with a kind of papall preſumption, as if they were guided in what they did by an infallible ſpirit; and ſome have not been aſhamed to put others to bluſh for their impudence, and theſe of both Sexes, as well Evites, as Adamites: but that which at preſent we have in purſuit and proſecution, is that intemperate humour of diſputing, of which a wiſe and learned States-man ſaid,ffPruritus diſputandi eſt ſcabies Eccleſiae. Sir Henr. Wootton, Warden of Eaton college. the itch of diſpute is the ſcab of the Church: Which he might happily take from Ludovicus Vives, who hath an expreſſion of neare affinity, or rather conſangunity unto it; As thoſe ggQuemadmodum qui pruritus tic…latione acti, nimium ſcabentes ſanguinem eliciunt, & dolor ſuccedit in locum ſuavitatis; ita iſtidum nimium ſcalpunt veritatem, &c. Ludovic. Vives de cauſis corruptar. artium l. 3. p. 127.(ſaith he) who are acted by the tickling of itch, do ſcratch too much and draw bloud, (whence there ſuccedeth ſoreneſſe for ſweetneſſe, pain for pleaſure:) So thoſe who ſcratch the truth too much by diſputation, wound it, and leave it in a condition of a neceſſity for ſome other meanes to cure and heale it.

Queſt. But are not the Proteſtants much commended by ahhSir Edw. Sands Europae Speculum. p. 85. judicious writer, for their offers of diſputation to their adverſaries in all place? For their iterated and importuned ſuits for publick audience and judgement? and is it not obſerved by him, for matter of advantage to the Proteſtant proceedings, as a thing which greatly aſſured the multitude of their ſoundneſſe, whom they ſaw ſo confident in abiding the hazard of publick triall? they standing in like termes as a ſubſtantiall juſt man, and a facing ſhifter; whereof the ones credit is greateſt there where he is beſt known, and the others where he is least.

Anſ. Whereto I anſwer, that when Luther and others made revolt from the Romiſh Religion, the Romaniſts were moſt groſſe in doctrine, moſt looſe in practiſe, (eſpecially the Prelates and the ruling Clergy) moſt injurious to the right and liberty of the people (both as men and as Chriſtians;) for which they were juſtly made odious to them which had a true reliſh of Religion or morall honeſty. All theſe particulars I could undeniably demonſtrate if there were need, and this place were fit for ſuch a proof as the charge will require: Therefore

It was the prudence of the Proteſtants, not their intemperance or diſtemper, to deſire diſputation in thoſe times; becauſe then as they had more juſt cauſe to oppoſe the Romaniſts, ſo had the Romaniſts leſſe ability to defend themſelves: p. 19for, as that worthy Gentleman welliiIbid. obſerveth, they were not ſo cunning then in the queſtions, nor ſo ready in their evaſions, as now they are grown: ſo that (as he ſaith) the effect of their offers, (whether received or refuſed) was in moſt places ſuch, as to draw with them an immediate alteration in Religion; and he medneth it by turning frrm the Popiſh to that which is Proteſtant. This doubt cleared, I ſhall returne to my diſcourſe of the diſputing diſcaſe, whereto as ſome have it thing cares, (as the Apoſtle ſaith, 2 Tim. 4.3.) ſo ſome have itching tongues; ſome itching fingers and pens. Such are thoſe diſputing Papiſts, who are commonly called School-men; of whom (though Peter Lombard Biſhop of Paris, was the founder, father or maſter, (and well he deſerved that title, ſaithkkCollegit ſententias ſacrorū theologorum, & magiſter ſententiarum & ſacrorum theologorum dici meruit. Bellarm. de Eccleſ. Script. ad ann. 1145. p. 322. Bellarmine;) yet his Scholars and followers, (eſpecially Aquinas, and Scotus, with their Scholaſtick Commentators) have multiplied the number of needleſſe queſtions, far beyond the limits of ſober, reaſonable and religious inquiries. I will ſet down ſome of them, and thoſe ſo many as may ſerve to make good my charge; (not omitting others as occaſion ſhall induce me to mention them, though not of their tribe.) Beginning with Aquinas, llAquinas primpart. vol. prim. q. 6. ar. 1.and taking more out of him then any other Queſtioniſt, becauſe he is a Canonized Saint of the Romiſh Church, and in their Schooles and Bookes commonly ſtyled the Angelicall Doctor.

His queſtions are, 1. Of God. 2. Of. Chriſt. 3. Of Angels. 4. Of Men.

llAquinas primpart. vol. prim. q. 6. ar. 1.1. Whether it be agreeable to God to be good.

mmIb. q. 14 ar. 2.2. Whether God underſtand himſelf.

nnIb. q. 19. ar. 1.3. Whether there be a will in God.

ooIb. q. 21. ar. 1.4. Whether there be juſtice in God.

ppIb. q. 25. ar. 1.5. Whether there be power in God.

qqApud Ludov. Viv. in Aug. l. 18. c. 16.6. Whether he can give power to a Crastore to create.

rrAquinas ad. 2d. vol. prim. par. q. 44. ar 4.7. Whether it were convenient that God ſhould require to be beloved with all the heart.

ss2d. 2d. vo 2. q. 90. ar. 1.8. Whether God be to be praiſed with the mouth:

2. Of Christ, he hath ſome vain queſtions, but becauſe other Papiſts have far worſe, I will mention theirs rather then his. Firſt, it is a very vain and fond queſtion.ttOrat. Dan. Cromeri. oppoſ. Bellarmino. p. 170, 171. which Cromerus noteth, viz: Whether Chriſt were of the order of the Dominicans, p. 20or Franciſcans. But they are worſe then vain, for they are vile; worſe then fond, for they are mad: which Eraſmus hath collected, I will ſet them down in his Language; for they are moſt of them ſo profane and blaſphemous, that I am loth to deliver them in any other: and therefore I will ſet them down as I find them in that Author, ſo much the more worthy of credit, becauſe by three Popes, uuLeo Pontifex maximus dilecto filio. Eraſmo. Eraſ. Epiſt. l. 1. p. 49. idem l. 2. p. 72. Upon which the note of the index expurg. is, paternis viſceribus pius pater nutantem oviculam blandis encomiis allicere conatur. p. 237. col. 2.Leo the tenth,wwEpiſt. l. 23. p. 864. 865. Adrian the ſixth, andxxPaulus P. 3. Deſid. Eraſm. Rot. Sacr. Theolog. profeſſ. diſect. fil. &c. Epiſt. lib. 27. p. 1095. Paul the third, he was acknowledged for a Son of thoſe Ghoſtly Fathers by their Letters written to him, two by Pope Leo, by Pope Adrian two, and by Pope Paul one; in all which he is not only kindly accepted, but highly commended by them. In hisyy1 Num ſint plures in Chriſto filiationes. 2 Num poſſibilis ſit propoſitio, Deus odit filium. 3 Num Deus potuerit ſuppoſitare mulierem. 4 Num Diabolum. 5 Num allnum. 6 Num Cucurbitam. 7 Num ſilicem. This is ſomewhat like that of Ludovic. Vives, An Deus poſſet ſuppoſitare hanc pennā qua ſcribo. Plut. in com. in libro. Aug. de c. 13.8 Tum quemadmodum ſi cucurbita eſſet concionatura. 9 Num editura miracula. 10 Num figenda cruci. Hac apud Eraſm. Moriae Encom. Quid ſit ſuppoſitum & ſuppoſitare in divinis, vid. Suarez. disp. Tom. 1. p. 150. diſp. 11. Moriae Encomium he rehearſeth ten, whereof the firſt is fooliſh, the reſt blaſphemous, as the learned Reader may ſee, though but in a marginall obſervation: for I had rather ſet them down on the leſt hand, covered with a Latine mask, then to place them bare-faced, for the readieſt view of an ordinary Reader.

To ſuch queſtions may pertinently be applied the cenſure of Nazianzen, they are ſo wretchedly affectedzzGreg. Naz. vol. 1. orat. 33. p. 431. (ſaith he) that they make it their delight to make trifling diſputes of divine matters, and are as preſumptuous many times in reſolving of curious queſtions, as raſh in propoſing them to the triall of diſputation;aaIdem. Orat. 35. p. 561. whoſe precipitation and temerity he thinketh very fit to be bridled and reſtrained.

3. Of Angels, Aquinas inquiresbbAquin. prim. part. vol. 2. q. 56. ar. 1. whether they know themſelves.

2. Whether their knowledge be matutine and veſpertine; which he takes occaſion to diſpute from the expreſſion ofccAug. Super Geneſ. ad lit. l. 2. c. 8. Anguſtine.

3.ddAquin. prim. part. vol. 3. 2. q. 60. ar. 3. Whether Angels love themſelves with a naturall or an elective dilection.

4.eeIb. q. 63. ar. 9. Whether as many remained in the ſtate of grace as fell from it.

p. 215.ffIb. q. 117. ar. 2. Whether men can teach Angels.

1. Of man, whether the rib of which Eve, was made were one of Adams neceſſary ribs, or one ſuperfluous: this is the queſtion ofggPeter. ſuper Geneſin. c. 2. q. 6. p. 159. Pererius a learned Jeſuit, which by his own confeſſion is by one of his own centured for a ſuperfluous queſtions

hhIbid. Tom. 1. lib. 4. q. 2. p. 166 Quomodo ſtatu innocentiae faeminae generati poſſunt &c. Ib. q. 3. c. 2. An in ſtatu innocentiae integritas faeminei genitali s commixtione viri, &c. Ib. q. 4. col. 1.2. Whether in the ſtate of innocency, the number of males and females ſhould have been equall.

To theſe two we may adde two more out of the ſame Jeſuit; but becauſe they are not ſo modeſt as the former, I had rather make a marginall note of them, in the Latine words of the Author, then expreſſe any part of them in my Engliſh text: yet be would ſeem very baſhfull to the Popiſh Biſhop Abulenſis Toſtatus, who diſcuſſeth ſo obſcene a queſtion about circumciſion, that he cannot for ſhame make mention of it, and therefore thinketh it beſt to paſſe it over in ſilence; and ſo do I: there are many of that ſort in Sanchez his great bellied book de mat…imonio, which maketh good the words ofkkDe delectatione praeputiatorum, &c. Ita pudenda eſt illius oratio & diſputatio, ut praeſter ca ſilentio praeteriri. Perer. in Geneſ. 17. diſp. 2. p. 596. v. 1. Cū coelibatum profiteantur, nimis…e muliebrium rerum peritos teſtantur. Pareus in Gen. 19. v. 33.Gen 17Gen 19:33 Pareus, of the badneſſe of ſuch as pretending to live chaſtly ſingle ſhew themſelves by their diſcourſes too well acquainted with womens matters.

Of mans death and reſurrection there are moved many diſputes, as idle and audacious as the reſt: there is one Bartholomew Sybilla hath written a whole book of ſtrange queſtions, among whichllBarth. Sybilla ſpecul. peregrin quaeſt. decad. 1. c. 2. q. 7. p. 5455. one of the paſſage of the ſoul out of the body, whether it go on the right hand or the left; whether forward or backward.

Of the reſurrection Aquinas hath many vaine queries; asmmAquin. ſupplem. tertiae part. q. 81. ar. 3 c. whether all ſhall ariſe in the male Sex, andnnIb. q. 8. ar. 2. whether the haires and nailes ſhall riſe up with the body; with many others of like ſort, which I paſſe over becauſe I would leave roome for others of another kind, which manifeſt the Papiſts to be the greateſt doters upon impertinent and unprofitable queſtions, and the boldeſt determiners of doubtfull things, that are. This appeareth not onelyonly by their diſputes and queſtions, ſuch as I p. 22have obſerved already; but by their reſolution of many doubts (as they pretend) by divine revelation; which may beſt be delivered by way of queſtion and anſwer, (as in form of a Catechiſme) divers of which are ſet down in two ſuch Papiſts books, as uſually ſupplied matter to their Prieſts for Sermons to the people; of which the one is the big book of the lives of the Saints, called by themſelves the Golden Legend: though by by thoſe who have read it with indifferency, the lying legend, made by Jacobus de Voragine, as he is ordinarily termed (but asccPoſſe. Apparat. Sacr. vol. 1. p. 794. Poſſevine corrects the name, Iacob de Varagine, Archbiſhop of Geneva) his book was printed at Venice, ann. 1575. The other book is a book of ſelected Sermons, printed by Iames Kavinell, for the uſe of ſimple Prieſts who want cunning to preach: So in the title of the book, the time and place of the firſt publication of it I find not noted. This premiſed, I will begin the queſtions out of their former book of lies with the author of lies the Devil.

Quest. 1. What is the proper likeneſſe of the Devil?ddLeg. aur. fol. 244. p. 1. col. 2. He is like an Ethiopian, more black then thunder, his face ſharpe, his beard long, his haires hanging unto his feet, his eyes flaming as hot as fire, caſting out ſparkles of fire, and out of his mouth come flames of ſulphur; his hands bound with chaines of fire behind his back.

Queſt. 2. When the Devil had tempted Adam and Eve, or Adam by Eve, to eat the forbidden fruit, what penance did they undergoe, (after they had yielded to the Devil) and were expelled out of Paradiſe?

eeThebook of ſelected Sermons printed by James Kavinell Dominic. Sep. mageſ. fol. 8. p. 1. col. 2.Anſ. For many yeares before their death they ſtood either of them in water a night up to the chin, (far from one another) till their fleſh was as green as graſſe.

But we muſt make a long leap into the new Teſtament, elſe we ſhall ſtay too long, and make our queſtions too many.

Queſt. 3. Why was Peter bidden to put up his ſword when he drew it in our Saviours defence?

ffMenot, Serm. fol. 47. col. 4.Becauſe he had nor cunning enough to uſe it; for he cut off Malchus his care when he ſhould have cut off his head.

Queſt. 4. How many thornes were in the Crown that was ſet upon the head of Chriſt?

ggApol. for Herodot. l. 1. c. 35. p. 274. out of Bonaventure, Lyra & Maylard.Juſt a thouſand.

p. 23Queſt. 5. How many wounds had the body of our Saviour in the whole?

Anſ. hhpa. 14. of the office of the Virgin, printed at Paris. ann. 1524.Five thouſand four hundred and ſixty.

Queſt. 6. What were the theeves names that were cruicified with Chriſt?

Anſ. iiLeg. aur. fol. 16. p. 1. col. 2.Dyſmas the name of him that was ſaved, and Geſmas the name of him that was damned.

Queſt. 7. Why was Dyſmas ſaved rather then Geſmas?

Anſ. kkA Franciſcan of Bourdeaux Apol. for Herodot. l. 1. c. 33. p. 260.Becauſe he would not ſuffer his fellowes to rob Chriſt when he fled into Egypt.

Queſt. 8. How know you that S. Thomas Becket (whoſe ſalvation hath beenllSee Speeds Chron. l. 9. c. 6. p. 510. col. 2. 43. called in queſtion, even among our own ca. becauſe of his contumacy againſt his King) was ſaved?

Anſ. AmmLeg. aur. fol. 180. p. 2. col. 1. young man died and raiſed by miracle, ſaid, there was in heaven a void ſeat; and asking whoſe it was, anſwer was made, that it was kept for a great Biſhop of England named Thomas of Canturbury.nnSymbolum dedit, coenavit. Ter. Andr. Act. 1. Sen. 1. Durand. Rational. l. 4. c. 25. fol. 133. p. 1. Eraſm. Catechiſm. Symboli Apoſtolor. &c. ſet out with pictures to every Article at the beginning of the book.Acts 1

Queſt. 9. How was the Creed called the Apoſtles Creed compoſed by the twelve Apoſtles?

Anſ. As a ſhot made up by gueſts each paying his ſhare, for

Article 1 was laid down by Saint 1 Peter.

Article 2 was laid down by Saint 2 Andrew.

Article 3 was laid down by Saint 3 Iames the Son of Zebede.

Article 4 was laid down by Saint 4 Iohn.

Article 5 was laid down by Saint 5 Philip.

Article 6 was laid down by Saint 6 Bartholemew.

Article 7 was laid down by Saint 7 Thomas.

Article 8 was laid down by Saint 8 Matthew.

Article 9 was laid down by Saint 9 Iames the ſon of Alpheus.

Article 10 was laid down by Saint 10 Simon.

Article 11 was laid down by Saint 11 Thaddeus.

Article 12 was laid down by Saint 12 Matthias.

Queſt. 10. What ſhall be the condition of the world the laſt fifteen dayes before the day of Judgement?

Anſ. ppSee Leg. aur. on the advent of our Lord. fol. 2. p. 2. col. 2. and compare it with the ſelected Sermons out of it publiſhed by James Kavinell, fol. 2. p. 2. col. 2. &c. In whoſe book the dayes are thus numbred and the number thus preciſely reckoned as precedent immediately before the day of judgement.The firſt of the fifteen dayes the water ſhall riſe upon p. 24the Sea, and it ſhall be higher then any hill by forty cubites.

2. The ſecond day the Sea ſhall fall down ſo low, that unneath the earth may be ſeen.

3. The third day the great fiſhes, as Whales and others, ſhall appear above the water, and ſhall cry unto Heaven, and God onelyonly ſhall underſtand their cry.

4. The fourth day the Sea and waters ſhall brenne.

5. The fifth day all trees and herbes ſhall ſweat bloud, and all manner of fowles ſhall come together, and neither eat nor drink for dread of the doome that is coming.

6. The ſixth day all great buildings, Caſtles, Towers, Steeples and Houſes, ſhall fall down, and brenne till the Sun riſe again.

7. The ſeventh day all Stones and Rocks ſhall beat together, that each ſhall break other, with an horrible noiſe, the which ſhall be heard into Heaven.

8. The eight day the Earth ſhall quake, ſo that there may no man ſtand thereon but ſhall fall down.

9. The ninth day the people ſhall go out of their dens, and go as they were mindleſſe, and none ſpeak to other.

10. The tenth day Hills and Earth ſhall be made even and plain.

11. The eleventh day all graves and tombes ſhall open, and the bodies ſhall ſtand upon them.

12. The twelfth day Stars ſhall fall from Heaven, and ſhall ſpread out raies of fire; on this day, it is ſaid, that all the beaſts ſhall come to the field howling, and ſhall not eat nor drink.

13. The thirteenth day all living ſhall die, to the end that they ſhall riſe with the dead bodies.

14. The fourteenth day the Heaven and the Earth ſhall brenne.

15. The fifteenth day ſhall be a new Heaven and a new Earth, and all things and all dead men ſhall ariſe.

I had not been ſo ſerious, nor inſiſted ſo long in diſcoverie of the fooliſh and unlearned queſtions (ſuch as the Apoſtle reproveth, 2 Tim. 2.23.) of the Papiſts, both polemicall Schoolmen, and Legendary Preachers, and their ridiculous vanity in reſolving many curious and ſuperfluous doubts by p. 25revelation; but that I have many of that deceived ſort in my pariſh, (though I thank God ſome fewer then I found when I came thither, and I hope to make them yet ſewer, if God pleaſe to give me time to effect what I have in deſire, and deſign, which is, to manifeſt, that the ruling Romaniſts are the ſubtilleſt Maſters of the ſubtilleſt Myſtery of iniquity in the world; and their ſeduced diſciples, (eſpecially the illiterate) the moſt fooliſh people in the world, from whom they keep the Scripture, and ſo keep them in blind ignorance, that (like hooded hawks) they may carry them whither they pleaſe; for which wrong they would ſeem to make them ſome recompence by ſetting images before them, which are commonly called Lay-mens books, though they can reach them none other leſſon then that a Chriſtian ſhould not learn, viz. falſhood, vanity and errours, Jer. 10.14, 15. and by pretended revelations, which are either meer forgeries of their audacious Doctors, or meer fallacies of the great deceiver mentioned by St. Iohn, Rev. 12.9. who makes them doters about queſtions and ſtrife of words, 1 Tim. 6.4. and puffeth them up to an affectation of forbidden knowledge, as he did our firſt parents, Gen. 3. and their diſciples receivers of any fooliſh fancie which they ſuggeſt unto them.)

But my principall aim in what I have hitherto ſaid in this Chapter, is, to curb thoſe men of corrupt minds, who are too prone to perverſe disputings, ſuch as the Apoſtle reproveth, 1 Tim. 6.5. and ſince (by their diſputings) queſtioning and reſolving, aiming to be wiſe above that is written, 1 Cor. 4.6. they have bewrayed their egregious folly to the world, we may tauntingly take up the queſtion of the Apoſtle, 1 Cor. 1.20. and put it to them, where is the wiſe? where is the Scribe? where is the disputer of the world? hath not God made fooliſh the wiſdome of this world? he hath doubteſſe: and we may take the great School-man and Queſtioniſt Aquinas for inſtance, whom thoughqqBellarm. de Eccleſ. Script. ad ann. 165. p. 347. Bellarmine commend for his holinleſſe and wiſdome, was neither ſo holy nor ſo wiſe as he ſhould have been: not ſo holy, 1. Becauſe he was ſo bold as to put to diſpute ſo many undoubted principles of divinity as we have noted.

Secondly, becauſe he lacked humility, without which there is no true holineſſe, which he might have learned of his Maſter p. 26Peter rrModeratior eſt Petrus Lombardus, qui ſententias alienas recitans non temerè de ſuo addit, aut ſi quid, timidè proponit. Eraſm. in Epiſt. ad Caron. delectum Epiſc. Panorum. Epiſt. l. 28. p. 1161.Lombard, of whom Eraſmus righly obſerveth, that resiting the opinions or ſentences of others, he did not raſhly adde any thing of his own; and when he added any thing, it was rather with fear then confidence.

Nor was he ſo wife as he ſhould have been: for as much as he wanted in humility, ſo much he had in pride, and as much pride, ſo much folly; for pride and folly, as humility and wiſedome, are ſorted together by the wife man, Prov. 14. v. 3. c. 11. v. 2. And though he looked for credit by his bold inquiries and concluſions, and had it of thoſe of his own ſide; yet ſuch as were ſound in the faith, and not partiall in affection, diſcovered and diſdained his pride, and ſo it was followed with ſhame, as Solomon obſerveth, Prov. 11.2. whereof we have a memorable paſſage betwixt Eraſmus, and Dr. Collet, the godly and famous Deane of Pauls, in K. H. the 8, his daies; to whom when Eraſmus had much commended Aquinas, to heare his judgement of him, and he gave him none anſwer, he propoſed and more vehemently preſſed the praiſe of him the ſecond time: to whichssTanquam afflatus Spiritu quodam, quid tu, inquit, mihi praedicas iſtum, qui niſi habuiſſet multum arrogantiae, non tanta temeritate, tantoque ſupercilio definiſſet omnia; & niſi habuiſſet aliquid Spiritus mundani, non ita totam Chriſti doctrinam ſua prophanâ Philoſophiâ contaminaſſet. Eraſm. Epiſt. ad Jodoc. Jonae l. 15. p. 486. Collet, as if he had been inſpired with an anſwer from God, preſently replyed, What meane you ſo to praiſe that man to me, who if be had not had much arrogancy in him, would not with ſuch temerity and ſuperciliouſneſſe have defined all things? and if he had not had ſomewhat of the Spirit of the world, he would not have ſo defiled the Doctrine of Chriſt with his profane Philoſophy. How worthy a man Dr. Colles was (for learning and Godlineſſe) they that deſire to know, may find a ſhort ſtory of him in Mr. Fox histtFox Martyr. vol. 2. p. 54. 55. ſecond volume of Acts and Monuments, and in the fore-cited Epiſtle of Eraſmus, he was ſo much a Papiſt (being levened with the corrupt Doctrine of the age wherein he lived) that King Henry the 8. after a Sermon preached by him in his preſence, and long communication with him, by occaſion thereof diſmiſſed him with theſe words, Let every one have his Doctor as he liketh, this ſhall be my Doctor: and yet ſo much a Proteſtant both in his preaching and practiſe, that asuuBiſh. Lat. in his 7th. Serm, on the Lor. Prayer. ſol. 174. p. 2. Biſhop p. 27Latimer ſald, he ſhould have been burned in K. H. the Eight his reigne, if God had not inclined the Kings heart to the contrary.