The Shepherds Wanderings Discovered, Chapter 21
CHAP. XXI. In which Mr. Sheppards 70, 71, 72, 73 pages are examined and anſwered, and his anſwers to eleven objections ſcann'd and found very weake.Pulpit guard. p. 25, 26.
YOu are now come to anſwer my brother Halls eleventh Argument, which was this:
They which have no promiſe from God of divine aſſiſtance, cannot comfortably or ſuccesfully undertake the work.
But private perſons turning preachers without a call, have no ſuch promiſe: Ergo.
To this you anſwer, 1. By denying the Minor; and you tell us there is a promiſe to a right hearing. Truth ſir, but this is not a right hearing, for how ſhall they heare without a preacher, and how ſhall they preach except they be ſent, Ro. 10.15.
2. You ſay, There was a bleſſing followed the preaching of "thoſe ſcattered upon the perſecution of Stephen, Acts 8.1, 4. Act. 11.21. I anſwer:
1. You are to prove, 1. That they were not in office.
2. That they had not the extraordinary guifts of the holy Ghoſt.
3. That they preached in a conſtituted Church ordinarily, when the people might heare ſuch as were in office. You will come ſhort in this proofe.
3. It is falſe that you ſay; we may as well ſay, there is no promiſe made to private teachings, and exhortings of one another. They are commanded duties, which when rightly performed, have promiſes annexed conſtantly.
In the next place you come to my brother Halls 17 Argument, p. 48. and my ſeventh, p. 46.
My Argument was this:
It is likely that that tenet which the Churches of Chriſt have in all ages rejected; and that practice which the Churches of Chriſt in all ages have decried and avoyded, is not a truth of Chriſt.
But the Churches of Chriſt in all ages have rejected and decried this opinion and practice. Ergo.
Now let us heare what you ſay againſt this.
1. You ſay, You are to live by Rule, not by example.
1. Truth ſir, but you can ſhew us no Rule for you.
2. Neither is there any Rule that hath not been put in practice by ſome of the Churches of Chriſt.
3. Where you can onelyonly ſay, It is not directly forbidden, not that it is abſolutely neceſſary. Example (Sir) if generall, or of the moſt, is not to be deſpiſed.
4. Surely the Apoſtle ſaid ſomething, when he ſaid, we have no ſuch cuſtoms, nor have the Churches of Chriſt, 1 Cor. 11.16.
You ſay it was not ſo in the primitive times. Prove that; "Nor ſo every where this day. What's that to the purpoſe? we have generally ſad examples in this age.
We told you, That many of theſe Lay-preachers were ſuch "as denied Scripture ordinances, Duties, Obedience to Magiſtrates, Sabbaths, Faſtings.
To this you anſwer:
1 None that are led by the Spirit doe ſo. They doe, it may be, "ſpeak againſt the abuſe of duties, and peoples reſting on them, and performing them carnall.
Sir, (notwithſtanding this ſhameleſſe inſinuation) we would have you know we are as much againſt, and preach as much againſt reſting in duties (that high idolatry) and carnall performance of them, as any others can or doe.
2. You ſay, None that are led by the Spirit doe ſo. But many guifted brethren doe ſo.—Ergo.
Again we ſay, For Magiſtracy, you appeale to all the world, who more alienate the peoples affections from our preſent governers, the preachers, or the guifted brethren.
1. Whats this to the purpoſe? doe preachers in Office preach down Magiſtracy?
2. Any one is good when he is pleaſed. Suppoſe our Parliament ſhould forbid private perſons preaching; or ſeverely puniſh errours and hereſie; what would you do then? we can tell you when the guifted brethren were not ſuch friends to the Magiſtrates or Magiſtracy of England.
3. What if ſome Miniſters (not all, Sir) were for a while unſatisfied in the late change? was there nothing in it (Sir) that might ſtartle a tender conſcience?
4. We believe that our Parliament doth, and in ſeven yeers time will more thinke them like to be beſt ſubjects who moſt feare an oath, and are moſt tender of doing any thing which might make an appearance of the breach of it.
Another Objection you ſay we make is,
"It is againſt Goſpel precepts and order. 1 Tim. 5.1, 22. Act. 13.3.
You aime here I believe at my firſt Argument, p. 23. But you are ſo wiſe as not to put it in the forme I put it. To this you anſwer nothing, but Magiſterially deny it.
A 13 Objection which you pretend to anſwer, is drawn from 1 Cor. 7.20. Let every one abide in his calling.
This I think is one of my brother Halls Arguments.
You anſwer, That guifted brethrens preaching is a piece of their generall calling. But (Sir) I have already proved, that publique preaching is a proper act of a particular calling, and no ſuch act can be an act of our generall calling.
A 14 Objection. This was to be committed to others, 2 Tim. 2.2. This is now a bit of my fourth Argument. (Sir) you are a ſhamefull diſputant. You ſhould repeat my Argument, and then deny a propoſition. But you tell us,
"That place is meant of the office of the Miniſtery, which you contend not for.
Truth (Sir) but you contend for a proper and chiefe Act of that office, as I have already proved. Whereas you ſay that the word is committed to the whole Church, 1 Tim. 3.15. I have anſwered that place before.
In the next place you pretend to anſwer a fifteenth objection, which is my fifth Argument, p. 40. of my Vindiciae.
Whoſoever may lawfully preach the Goſpell and interpret Scriptures ordinarily, &c. may warrantably require a maintenance competent for them, of thoſe to whom they ſo preach.
But this guifted perſons cannot &c.
You grant the Minor, and tell me the Major is a Non ſequitur.
You deny the plain words of the Apoſtle (Sir) 1 Tim. 5.18. They that rule well, are worthy of double honour, (countenance and maintenance, viz.) eſpecially ſuch as labour in the Word and Doctrine. Matth. 10 10. 1 Tim. 5.18. Gal. 6.6. He that is taught in the Word is bound to communicate to him that teacheth in all good things.
1. Prove this is meant onelyonly of ſuch as are in office.
And then 2. That any are to preach that are not in office, or elſe you tell the holy Apoſtle his words are falſe.
A 16 objection you pretend to anſwer is drawn from that of the Apoſtle, 1 Cor. 12 Where the Apoſtle to ſhew that there ſhould be order kept in the Cburch of Chriſt, that one ſhould not be diſſatisfied at the excelling gift or office of another, compares the Church to a Naturall body, wherein are ſeverall Members, and all have their ſeverall offices, &c. ſome eyes, ſome eares, &c. and hence proves, that in the Church all ſhould not be eares, eyes, &c. they ſhould not uſurpe one anothers places, nor envy one another for them.
To this you anſwer, Who denies this, or what have we "ſaid againſt this?
You deny it (Sir) when you ſay God hath ordained all to be Tongues.
A 17. Objection: Then women and boyes may preach.
You tell us: 1. Women might if they were not forbidden. I deny it, they muſt be commanded, or elſe they might not; this was the old Popiſh plea for ceremonies, they were lawfull becauſe not forbidden.
2. You ſay women did it, 1 Cor. 11.3. That place (Sir) is to be underſtood of being preſent at prophecying, or of extraordinary prophecying, or elſe the Apoſtle contradicts himſelfe in the ſame Epiſtle 1 Cor. 14.34. which I hope you dare not ſay.
3. You ſay, Boyes may if they have a gift, and to prove it you tell us Chriſt did, Lu. 2.46, and Timothy, 1 Tim. 4.42.
1. You have put a pretty uncivill terme upon our Saviour and upon Timothy, ſurely they were no ordinary boyes (Sir) I perceive you have not read Ariſtotle, he would tell you there is a Juvenis aetate & Moribus, young men in reſpect of age, or manners and abilities. You come to an
18. Object. This gift of opening and applying Scripture, "eſpecially hard places, was onelyonly temporary and now ceaſed.
This you ſay (if true) were ſomething, but many have it at this day.
You ſay right (Sir) this is ſomething, and before you condemne it for falſe, anſwer the Reaſons to prove it extraordinary, which I have gathered out of ſeverall learned and holy men, and preſented you with in my Vindiciae Miniſterii, p. 50. 51. and when you have done that well, tell me what you thinke of men having that gift in theſe dayes.
19. Object. Whatſoever is not of Faith is ſinne.
This is one of my Brother Halls arguments, and all you can ſay can never anſwer it, for it will not ſerve your turne to prove it is of faith, becauſe it is not ſpecially forbidden.
But you tell us, it is warranted by Scripture, where (Sir?) this is all you will ſay to this argument, I believe it ſcared you, and you made haſt to quit your hands of it.
20. Object. There are two ordinances of Parliament in force againſt it.
In anſwer to this you grant
"1. That it is a practice reſtrainable by Authority.
Now ſee (Sir) how obedient our gifted Brethren are to Magiſtrates.
2. You ſay Authority doth connive at it.
Connivence (Sir) doth not fruſtrate publike acts nor warrant diſobedience to them.
3. But you hope in time the Parliament will repeale them.
It is poſſible, but if they doe not doe it till they finde them inconſiſtent with the lawes of Chriſt, they will be in force long enough.
4. You grant it irregular and inconvenient for them to preach till authority doth command or allow it, then I ſee our Brethren though they may have the Spirit are not infallible, in their principles and practices they may be irregular.
But I cannot but obſerve how upon all occaſions, our brethren are more beholden to you then our God is: you grant Magiſtrates in this caſe, have power to command and reſtraine, Ro. 13.1. Let every ſoule (ſaith the Apoſtle) be ſubject to the higher powers.—v. 2. Whoſoever reſiſteth the power reſiſteth the Ordinance of God, and receiveth to himſelfe damnation, this is undoubtedly true of reſiſting true and lawfull powers in things which they may command and reſtraine, yet you mince it prettily, not ſinfull and unlawful, but irregular and inconvenient when it concerns the gifted brethren.
I have now done to the doctrinall part of your Booke, and have proved your doctrine falſe.
The Application (if ſuch as it ſhould be) muſt onelyonly be the concluſion from theſe premiſes. I have denyed the premiſes, I need not deny the concluſion, I will only in one Chapter note a note or two.