The Shepherds Wanderings Discovered, Chapter 19
CHAP. XIX. In which Mr. Sheppards 65, 66, 67 pages are anſwered, and his anſwers to our ſixth and ſeventh Argument found too ſhort.
THe next argument you pretend to anſwer is my 1 argument, and the ſubſtance of my Brothers Halls ſecond, eighth, and ninth.
You ſay, we ſay you may not doe it becauſe you are not called and ſent by the Preſbytery, as Ro. 10.15. 1 Tim. 3.10.4, 14.5.22, 2.2, 3. It is the Scripture ſaith ſo. (Sir) not we onelyonly. To this you anſwer,
1. That you will not now diſpute the Preſbytery, nor thus call to the Miniſtry, no (Sir) it is not your beſt courſe, believe it, Swords and Piſtols, will ſerve you better in that worke then Scripture and Reaſon.
2. You agree that preachers in office muſt be duly called, none of them Scriptures ſay (Sir) preachers in office, but thoſe that preach muſt be ſent, Ro. 10. thoſe that teach oothers muſt be not onelyonly faithfull and able, but have the Goſpell committed to them, 1 Tim. 2.2.
But you hold it convenient if not neceſſary; Jeſus Chriſt (Sir) is beholden to you for drawing out duties into conveniences, I ſuppoſe you hold it convenient too, that the Goſpell ſhould be Preached and people heare and be ſaved, it will be found neceſſary one day (Sir) Jeſus Chriſt will make you aſhamed of that ſame if not.
But the places onelyonly ſpeak of a call from God: and then a man is ſent of God when he is fit and able to teach. 2. hath a willingneſſe in his minde to give himſelfe to the worke. 3 when providence diſpoſeth him to a call to exerciſe his gift.
I profeſſe I tremble to read and heare men profeſſing to the feare of God ſo boldly contradicting his word, trampling upon his plaine precepts, and all to exalt carnall corrupt reaſon. But to anſwer a little.
1. If that be a call from God which you inſtance in, I beſeech you Sir, with what face of a Chriſtian can you ſay, moſt of the Scriptures quoted ſpeak of no more? there are but five Scriptures in all, 1 Tim. 3.10. And let theſe alſo be proved? who ſhould prove them, good Sir?) 1 Tim. 4.14. With the laying on of the hands of the Preſbytery, is there no call from men thinke you? The third is 1 Tim. 5.22. Lay hands ſuddenly on no man▪ what is that meant of Gods immediate ſending, thinke you, doth he lay hands on any? the fourth is 1 Tim. 2.2.—the ſame commit thou to faithfull men who ſhall be able to teach others, is God meant by that thou thinke you (Sir?) the fifth place quoted firſt is Rom. 10.15. that indeed is not ſo plaine, but carnall reaſon hath more roome to cavill; but I have ſpoke enough before to cleare that from the Socinian gloſſe of providentiall ſending: you tell us p. 66. you have cleared that Text, and ſhall adde no more. But truly (Sir) except you had ſpake more to the purpoſe before, you might have added your pleaſure: but you ſay,
If theſe places be admitted in the ſenſe we would have them, then it would follow that none might preach in any caſe but ſuch as are examined and approved by the Preſbytery, and that we dare not affirm, for we admit it in diverſe caſes.
In none but in caſes of neceſſity (Sir) and in ſuch caſes your note is falſe, for though believing actually be the ordinary meanes of ſalvation, yet infants may be ſaved without it.
Your anſwer to our argument, that it is forbidden, is not worth taking notice of, what is not commanded in divine worſhip in any eſſentiall part of it, is forbidden, eſpecially there being rules ſet downe for ſome doing of it, and none for others.
But (Sir) if you will doe any thing, anſwer my argument formally, as you have it in my Vindiciae, p. 23, 24, 25 26, 27.
You come to anſwer one of my arguments,Page 67. to prove preaching a proper act of the preachers office, viz.
If they may preach they may baptize, &c. I gave two reaſons for it, Math. 18.19. It is in the ſame commiſſion. 2. The Apoſtle maketh it rather the greater act.
To this now you pretend to anſwer and ſay, 1. You deny the conſequence and collection, nor will that Text, 1 Cor. 1.17. make it out, but ſeemes rather to hold forth the contrary. Very well anſwered Sir, and with abundance of Reaſon: Secondly you ſay.
2. The words Math. 18.19. I will be with you to the end, may as well be applyed to the doctrine as the perſons of the Apoſtles, and to thoſe who ſhall be wrought upon by that doctrine as the Apoſtles.
What's this to the purpoſe, I plead the Commiſſion, you expound the promiſe. By this argument you prove they ſhould Baptize too, if the whole commiſſion extends to all Saints. You ſay,
3. You agree, that ſuch as teach by office may Baptize, but gifted brethren doe not teach by office.
You adde to the Scripture (Sir,) by office is not in the Text, ſo that this is nothing to the purpoſe. You ſay,
4. You deny gifted Brethren have power to Baptize, becauſe they never did, but they have power to preach, becauſe they ever did it and were never forbidden, but in effect commanded.
Your baſe affirmings and denyings it are but poore empty words, that come to no more then wind.
1. Though they never did it, yet if they be commanded to doe it, they ought to take up their power.
2. Neither did any of them not called to office, or extraordinarily gifted with the gifts of the holy Ghoſt now ceaſed in ordinary times, when the Church was not under perſecution, ever doe it.
3. I have proved before they are forbidden, and neither commanded directly nor by conſequence. You tell us.
5. That you cannot agree, that preaching in a greater worke then baptiſme rightly done with preaching and prayer.
No matter whether you agree it, or no, you ſhould doe well to prove that it is neceſſary that all Baptiſme follow or immediately goe before preaching; we grant it convenient, not neceſſary that Baptiſme be adminiſtred with Preaching, though you read of the Goſpell being Preached, Acts 2. Acts 8. before the Baptizing of the 3000. and the Eunuch, yet you cannot prove I ſuppoſe that thoſe Sermons were intentionally preached in order to Baptiſme.
I cannot tell how you will prove what you ſay here, that praying is a more ſpirituall worke then preaching, I am ſure neither in reſpect of the Subject, object, matter, or end, nor in reſpect of the right manner of performance. You ſay,
6. Grant it be the greater worke, it doth not follow, that becauſe the people may doe that, they may doe the leſſe, which is Baptiſme, for — if a commiſſion be granted to Commiſſioners to heare and determine leſſer offences.
1. But Sir the people have no commiſſion granted them to preach.
2. If there be a Commiſſion granted to perſons to heare and determine Treaſons and Felonies, I ſuppoſe it is a good argument to prove they may heare and determine the Felonies; becauſe they may heare and determine the Treaſons, and they are both in the ſame commiſſion. This is the caſe (Sir) Chriſt Jeſus hath granted commiſſion to certaine perſons to preach his Goſpell and Baptize, if you ſay and prove they may Preach. I will prove they may Baptize; why? they are both in the ſame Commiſſion.
3. I obſerve that you ſay nothing to 1 Cor. 1.17. where the Apoſtle ſaith, Chriſt ſent him not to preach, but baptize. The words cannot be underſtood abſolutely, for St. Paul did baptize the houſhold of Stephanas, by his own confeſſion. The meaning muſt be, that he lookt upon preaching as his chiefe act as a Goſpel Officer. This you are not willing to take notice of.