A Reply to a Relation, Part 3 (8 of 9)

A Reply to a Relation · Part 3 (8 of 9)

p. 342Again, One thing I cannot well passe over, which seems to me very ridiculous, where you say, that by the judgement of godly and learned men, those former Ceremonies have continued in the practise of this Church. Now who knoweth not, that these Ceremonies have so continued even by the judgement of profane and ignorant men. And what needs then the judgement of godly and learned men for the matter, as to testifie this? Except you meane by the judgement of godly and learned men, that godly and learned men have had most cause to know it, by undergoing the severe judgement of Censure of suspension and silencing, and other vexations, onelyonly for not conforming to the practise of your Old Ceremonies, as many doe now, for not conforming to your New. Or els you so shuffle these words in, and so packe them together, that when they meet with a Reader, that weighs your words more by the sound, then by the sense (or rather want of sense) he may run away with this apprehension, as if godly and learned men had in their judgement approved of those Ceremonies; whereas few godly and learned, but rather wished them all long agoe at Rome again, from whence they came.

But to come to your Conclusion out of Rhenanus, which by puting it down with approbation, you make to be your own: Doubtlesse Ceremonies doe not hurt the people, but profit them. Doubtlesse? How prove you that? Nay doubtlesse, we have already proved, that both they doe hurt, and no way profit the people; they are good for nothing, for no body, unlesse for you Prelates, to uphold and exercise your Tyranny over Gods people, and to bring Fees into your Courts. And Beatus Rhenanus spake according to the Time, and Place, and Church he lived in; although he was a moderate man, and saw more, then he durst speake of. And the same Rhenanus (as was before touched) in his Annotations upon T…rtullian, and I take it in that Book, out which you cite this sentence (De Corona Militis) observes, how sundry Heathen Ceremonies crope into the Church, by occasion of many old men newly converted to Christianity, whom it was hard to waine from their old Heathenish fashions, which therfore were thought fit to be admitted, as not hurting, but profiting those old Heathen new Christians. But godly and learned men (as I said before) could tell you what infinite dammage p. 343your tyrannicall pressing of your Ceremonies upon mens Consciences hath brought to the Gospell, and so to the soules of men, by depriving them of so many worthy Ministers, onelyonly for Non-conformity. But this is one speciall end, for which you so presse your Ceremonies, to suppresse Godly and learned Preachers, and so the sincere Preaching of the word of God, that the people being brought up in ignorance and profanesse, might be the lesse sensible of bearing the yoake of your Antichristian Tyranny over them. But as for your Carnall Ceremonies, which the Apostle saith are good for nothing, **Col. 2.23▪Col 2:23pròs plesmonen, in comparison of satisfying the flesh, the carnall pride of will-worshipers: we have spoken sufficiently before.

But Rhenanus addes a qualification: so there be a meane kept. I think you might have done well to have omitted this, till you had been better acquainted with this meane; of which before. And the Author might have expressed this Meane a little more fully, thus: So there be either no Ceremonies at all, or if any, those very few, and those few not pressed, with rigor, or necessity upon mens Consciences, but left free to every one to use them, or not, according to the Christian liberty, which Christ hath purchased for them, as is said before. Whereas you are not satisfied with a few Ceremonies, nor with the Old, but you must have New added, with a Tot quot, and all of them you presse so hard upon the Conscience, as you wring blood. And this is all the Meane you keep.

Lastly, So the By be not put for the Maine: that is (say you) so we place not the principall part of our Piety in them. And doe not you so? For you put your Altar, and all the solemn Service, and Ceremonies of Devotions and Adorations attending upon it, even all your humane Inuentions and Will worship, for the very Maine of all your Religion. Do you not? I know you willingly confesse it. And what's the By, but Gods-word, and the sincere Preaching thereof, which you put By, and by seting up your Altar-service, do thrust out of the Church by the head and shoulders, as is noted before? And I say, The Maine, the All and some of all your Religion, is your Altar: On this your Goddesse, all your other Devotions and Ceremonies, as so many Hand-mayds give their devout attendance. Your face prayeth towards your Altar: your body boweth towards your Altar: your second solemn service (as the secundae Mensae) for your daintier Cates, must be served up upon your Altar, which the maine Body of the Church must not tast of: your Third service (which is instead of the Preachers p. 344concluding prayer & blessing after his halfe-houres Sermon) must be served by your Priest at your Altar, when with his blessing he dismisses the people with an Ite, Missa est; And all the while of your solemn Second and Third service your Serving men in their Liveries, or Rich Copes, stand and give their Attendance about your Altar: your Crucifixes and Images, like the Cherubims, have their aspect and respect upon your Altar: All must come and offer at your Altar, while for joy your Organs merrily play. Thus as the Romish Altar-service (as Bellarmine tells us) is the maine substance of all their Religion: just so is yours. That's the Maine But What's the By then? Namely all the Intralls or Inwards of externall Devotion and worship, these are the appurtinances, these are the By. What are those Inwards? The Inwards of True Externall worship, are Faith, Feare of God, Love of God, Zeale of Gods Glory, sincerity of heart in spirit and Truth. Now these with you are altogether the By; for these you have layd quite By, as before.

L. p. 280. F. (Fisher reports) After this, we all rising, the Lady asked the Bishop whether she might be saved in the Romain Faith? He answered she might. L. What? Not one Answere perfectly related? My Answere to this was Generall, for the ignorant, that could not discerne the errours of that Church, so they held the foundation, and conformed themselves to a Religious life. Pag. 285. We have not so learned Christ, as to deny salvation to some ignorant silly soules, whose humble peaceable obedience makes them safe among any part of men, that professe the foundation Christ. And pag. 288. some Protestants there be, which doe as stiffly and as churlishly deny (All Papists) salvation, as they doe us. And 283. In this **False Charity of the PrelateOur Charity is not mistaken: and if it be mistaken Charity is better, then none at all.

P. From all these words together, we observe this one Maine, That silly ignorant Papists, living and dying in the Romish Faith, may be saved; with these conditions: 1. If they discerne not the errour of that Church: 2. So they profes the foundation Christ: 3. So they conforme to a Religious life, in an humble and peaceable obedience. The second Maine I observe is, That we ought not to deny to such in that case salvation And that upon these Reasons, 1. Because we have not so learned Christ. 2. Because it is stiffnesse and Churlishnesse in Protestants, to deny all Papists salvation. 3. That in granting them salvation, it is true Charity not mistaken. 4. That if Charity herein be mistaken, 'tis better then none at all. Of all these brefly.

p. 345First then I Answere: That the Roman Faith being Infidelity it selfe, 'tis impossible, that any living and dying in that faith, can be saved. And we have before proved it to be flat Infidelity, and Apostacy. Nor will it excuse any Ignorant, that he discerneth not this Infidelity, and Apostacy. For ignorance, though it excuse à Tanto (as the Schoolmen speake) from the muchness… of sinne, yet not à Toto, from the Maine of sinne. A man that is blind, and knows not the danger of the way he walkes in, doth as well fall into the pit, as he that seeing, runs headlong into it? The Heathen knew not, that they lived and dyed in Idolatry and Infidelity: yet they were damned for all their ignorance. Secondly, for their Professing the foundation Christ: Is Profession sufficient? Many (sayth the Apostle) **Tit. 1.16.Titus 1:16professe Christ, that in works doe deny him, being abominable, disobedient, and unto …very worke Reprobate. Is it enough then to professe all that is in the Creed (did ignorant silly Papists know what their Latin-Creed meaneth) and yet want faith? Againe, they professe, as they are taught. How is that? They are taught this one Maine Principle, That they must be saved not by Faith onelyonly, but by their good Works, whereby they must merit their Salvation. Now this all Papists, learned and unlerned, professe. This (unlesse they cease to be Papist) they live and dye in; and so they are necessarily and certainly damned. For to adde any thing to Faith in Iustification, is damnation; as before it shewed. And saith the Prophet, ‡‡Io…. 2.8.They that observe lying vanities, forsake their own mercy. But, Thirdly, you say, They may be saved, so they conforme to a Religious life. Now what is the Religious life of a Papist, and especially of a silly ignorant Papist? Namely, to goe to Shrief, or Confession to the Priest, his Ghostly Father, as often as may be (as the Fernall Glory, published by your Chapleins licence, teacheth) or at the least once a yeare against Easter: to keep his Lent-fast strictly, so as upon paine of damnation, or greivous penance, not to eat an egge all that time, and so observe all othor Fasting-dayes in the yeare, together with all Holydayes: to say over their Beads every day in repeating their Pater Noster, Ave Mary, Creed, and ten Commandements, …f either they be so learned, or devout: to goe to their dayly Masse and Mattens, where it is their safety to understand never a word, nor to say Amen to the Priest, but by the sound of his voyce: which they understand no more, then the chattering of a Magpy: to call upon such a Saint, his speciall Mediator, and say a Pater Noster, and Ave Mary before such an Image, and especially of their Lady: and a thousand such like observations, wherein a Popish Religious life consisteth. And p. 346so this is the Religious life of your ignorant silly Papist, wherin living and dying, he may be saved, if he may beleeve your Doctrine. But to this you adde, An humble and peaceable obedience. To What? Or to whom? As to the Priests Ghostly Discipline, when he injoynes sore penance, as whipping-cheare in Lent, or the like. Or if you meane peaceable obedience to the Civil Magistrate, as in England: that must be according to their Ghostly Fathers direction and limitation: they must not take the Oath of Supremacy, nor in some cases, the Oath of Allegiance, when it makes for the Catholick Cause. And though to satisfie the Law, and save his purse, he come once a monethmonth to Church, and heare your service: yet Sermon he must not heare, especially if the Preacher be Puritannicall, for that might turn him quite from his Popery. And thus such, partly by their peaceable civill life, and partly by their humble Popish Religious life, so living and dying may be saved.

And therfore to such silly Ignorants, we must not deny salvation. Why so? For first, We have not so learned Christ, say you. Wee? What wee? Wee, to wit, you, and your present Church of England. And surely you had not need to deny salvation to that Church, with which you and your Church is one and the same Church, least otherwise you might leave your selves as little hope of salvation, as others doe them. But this is a piece of your learning of Christ, it seems, to beleeve, that a silly ignorant Papist, that knows not the right hand from the left, that is drowned in Ignorance, blindnesse, superstition, Idolatry, Infidelity, and as a drowned man knows it not, may securely wrappe himselfe in the shrowd or mantle of his silly ignorance, and so goe to heaven. Thus have you learned Christ. But Wee, Wee (I say) that renounce all communion with the Whore of Babylon, and with all her Abominations, **Ephes. 4.21.Eph 4:21have not so learned Christ (as having heard him, and been taught by him, as the truth is in Iesus) as to beleeve there is salvation to be hoped for of any, but such as walke according to Christs rule, and live and dye in his Faith. And what's Christs rule? Even that which follows in the same place, vers. 22, To put off, and renounce the former conversation of the Old Man, which is corrupt according to the deceitfull lusts, wa…king (v. 18.) in the vanity of our minds, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, through ignorance (as the Gentiles) because of the blindnesse of their heart, who being past feeling, have given themselves to all …s…viousnesse, to worke all uncleannes with greedinesse: Wherupon the Apostle addes: But have not so learned Christ, so, as to p. 347thinke to be saved in a Heathenish life drowned in ignorance: (from which you cannot distinguish the life of an ignorant Papist, except that it is infinitely more stupid and fuller of grosse ignorance, and all abominations, then the Heathen were; and saving that Papists professe the name of Christians) We have not (I say) so learned Christ. What is then the learning of Christ? To put off the Old Man, and that ye be (saith the Apostle) renewed in the spirit of your mind, putting on the New man▪ which after God is created in Righteousnesse, and true Holinesse. This is the learning of Christ. So as without this learning, neither any silly ignorant Papist, nor the most pregnant, acute, learned Arch-Prelate can be saved. We must have both the Righteousnesse of justification by Faith imputed, and of Sanctification of the spirit of Christ inherent, and shining forth in a holy life and conversation. It is not a Pope-holynesse in keeping of a Lent, fast, or worshiping of an Altar, and such like counterfeit holines of mans devising. This you learne not of Christ. For Christ saith, **Mat. 15.… ▪Matt 15In vaine they worship me, teaching for Doctrines the Commadements of men, or humane Traditions. This holinesse saves not, but shuts men out of the Kingdome of Heaven.

But secondly, You call it stifnesse, Protestants Churlishnesse, better then the Prelates Charity.and churlishnesse in Protestants to deny all Papists salvation. We shall by and by see your Charity to Papists, which is so extreame great, as we need not wonder at your malice against those some Protestants you speake it. Is it stifnesse to avouch the truth? And if they do bebaiousthai (as the ‡‡Tit. 3.8▪Titus 3:8Apostle exhorteth Titus) constantly affirme, what not onelyonly is truth, but also necessary to be spoken, as being a matter of such moment and consequence, as concernes the savation of soules, by denying salvation, to whom it belongeth not, and when men are seduced in a false perswasion therof: call you this churlishnesse? Certainly this churlishnesse in so denying, is better then your charity in affirming a falshood. Nay what will you say, if this, which you call churlishnesse, be found to be true Charity? when your Charity will be found to be deadly hatred against the soule of that silly ignorant Papist? For true Charity ever consists with verity: els it is no Charity, but vanity. Now those Protestants, which deny salvation to all Papists living and dying in the Roman faith, doe it upon sound and solid grounds, even upon cleare evidence of Scripture. For the Roman Faith is not the true Christian Faith; as we have proved. And without the true Christian Faith, no salvation. And that one Doctrine of Justification by works (were there no more) which all p. 348Papists professe and hold, is alone sufficient to shut out all Papists, living and dying therein, from salvation. This being so cleare, should Protestants grant notwithstanding a possibility of salvation to any Papist, living and dying in that Romish faith, they should utter a manifest untruth and falshood, and so should bewray themselves to be notoriously uncharitable. How? First to Protestant Professors: 2. to Papists. To Protestant Professors, causing the weake at least to waver in their faith, and make them the apter to be seduced by Romish Priests and Jesuites, who prevaile not a little with vulgar Protestants, and that by this very Argument which you hold, That Protestants (yea the Primate of Canterbury) grant a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church. Whereas we (say the Jesuites) deny salvation to be had in the Protestant Church. Although I hope they will not extend this to the Church of England, which you say is one and the same Church with that, of which Rome is. Againe secondly, Protestants in not affirming this truth, Then it is impossible for any Papist, living and dying in the Roman faith, to be saved, should be very uncharitable to the Papists themselves. For seeing them running on in a way, which is full of false ground, and deep pits, covered over with green leaves, and the end whereof is certaine and unavoydable destruction: should they not cry out unto them, to abandon that way, and by all meanes and speed to get them out of it, they were very uncharitable. And the Scripture calls this hatred of our Brother. As Levit. 19.17. Thou shalt not hate thy broth…r in thy heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke him, and not suffer sin upon him. And for ignorant Papists, we are not to cast off all hope of them, but erranti comiter monstrare viam, shew those wanderers the right way, instructing them with meeknesse, proving **2 Tim. 2.25, 26.2 Tim 2:252 Tim 2:26if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth, And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, being taken captive of him at his will.

Ob. But for Protestants to have no better an opinion of Papists, and of their Religion, would (as you tell us before) make the rent wider, which you are loth to doe. The rent is too wide, so to be sowed up with the rotten thread of your Charity. Nay such your Charity keeps Papists the further off from the true Protestant Religion, when they may be provided of salvation nearer home, and that so easily too. But however, the truth must be spoken, Aug. de Praedest. et Gratia▪as you …old us before. As Augustine saith in the point of Predestination, at the Preaching whereof some in his dayes (as p. 349too many in ours) taking offence, he answereth, Numideo tacenda est veritas, &c. Is the Truth therfore to be concealed, because some unjustly are offended with it to their damnation: and not rather to be spoken, that he which is able to receive it, may receive it to his salvation? And here the Papists take offence at Protestants, for speaking the truth, it is not scandalum datum, but acceptum, not an offence given, but taken. And though some take offence, yet others weighing by reason, may thereby through Gods grace forsake their errour, and imbrace the truth. If they will not, we have freed our own soules, and Truth is Truth still. We must keep our distance, and not (because they will not come to us) goe the halfe way at least to draw them to us; as before. As the Lord saith to his Prophet concerning revolted Israel, **Ier. 15.19.Jer 15:19Let them return unto thee, but return not thou unto them. And if thou take forth the Precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth. We must not mingle and confound the precious and pure gold with the base drosse, not truth with errour, not light with darknesse.

Yet for your part, you say Thirdly, Not to deny Papists salvation, living and dying Papists, to wit, in the Roman Faith, is not mistaken Charity; and if it be, mistaken Charity is better then none at all. But first, we have shewed, that this is no Charity at all, but an erronious opinion, arising from a spirit destitute of the Truth, and too much in love with the Romish whore. And Secondly, such mistaken Charity is worse then no Charity at all in this kind. It were better, if ye had no such Charity. For your Charity towards your silly ignorant Papists, in perswading them, that they are safe enough in any society of men, and there is salvation for them living and dying in the Roman Faith, is a nuzzling of them in their ignorance; and (like the Apes Charity to her young one) a strangling of them with too much hugging, and bewrayes you to be of the spirit of those false Prophets, that ‡‡Eze. 13.22.Ezek 13:22strengthen the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life▪ that ‡‡v 11.dawbe with untempered morter, that §§Esa. 5.20.Isa 5:20call evil good, and good evil: that put darknesse for light, and light for darknesse (and wo to such) that say, ††Ier. 6.14▪Jer 6:14peace, peace, when there is no Peace.

Ob. But you will say, shall we shut out silly ignorant Papists from Gods mercy. Nay you your selfe shut them out from Gods mercy, while you shut them up in their blindnesse, and so from the meanes of Gods mercy. For meanes of mercy they have none in their Popish Religion, and blind faith, and therein you lull them fast asleep, while you tell them, so long as they are ignorant p. 350of the Errours of Popery, they are safe among any part of men▪ Thus you shut them out from Gods mercy (as much as in you is) when we by shewing them the truth, and their errour, would lead them to Gods mercy. Nor doe we deny, but God may in the riches of his Grace and mercy prevent and overtake a silly Papist, in causing him to imbrace Christ by Faith, even when he lyes on his death bed, and truly beleeving in Christ, and so dying, he is undoubtedly saved. But dying thus a true Beleever, he dyes not in the Roman faith, but in the saving faith of Christ, which the Roman faith is not. So as thus dying within the Verge of the Roman Church, yet he dyes no member of the Roman Church, but of the true misticall body of Christ. And this Charity we have towards silly Papists, praying that God would shew them mercy, in delivering them from under Antichrists yoake, to take Christs yoake upon them, and bring them out of darknesse into his marvellous light. To proceed.

L. p. 294, 295. Io. Frith saith, Of the presense of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament, Fox. Martyr. Tom. 2. pag. 943. Lond. 1597.that neither side ought to make it an Article of Faith, but leave it indifferent. And B. Ridley, we confesse all one thing to be in the Sacrament▪ onelyonly we differ in modo, in th… manner of Beeing.

P, And of this of Ridley you say (ibid.) 'Tis well if some Protestants except not against it. For this difference de Modo, of the manner of the Presence of Christs naturall Body in the Sacrament, we have spoken before at large. And was this Difference, trow you so small that cost both Ridley, and Cranmer, and Frith their lives? For you cite them all 3 in one Page, calling them the learned of those zealous in Queen Maries dayes. Martyrs you do not call them: beware of that. So as times kàrin for honour sake you mention them not. So you cite Calvin a little before, whom in the High Commission you honoured with the Title of Rascall. And these Martyrs are they, whom one of your Divines of note and worth (Dr. Heylin) in a Booke licensed by your Chaplein stiles with the Honourable Title of Schismaticall Hereticks. But to let this passe for currant with you: The summe of your whole passage touching this point, from pag. 292. to 296. is to perswade us to acknowledge a reall presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament, onelyonly differing from the Papists quoad moaum, as touching the manner of presence. Now I confesse this is a very pretty and ready way to lead to your Reconciliation. But let me tell you, even words, and names, and verball expressions are of no small force many times, to p. 351lead men into great errours, although at first they meant no harme, that used them. For instance. The Primitive Fathers, when they began to call the Lords Table an Altar: they little dreamed what an Altar it would prove afterwards, as wheron to offer up in sacrifice Christs naturall body ▪ So when they called Ministers Priests, they imagined not, that those Priests would prove afterwards such sacrificing Priests, as now are in the Church of Rome. And when they called the Lords supper a sacrifice, which they meant to be Eucharisticall, of thanksgiving, they never suspected, that this would become afterwards a corporall sacrifice of Christs very body and b…ood. And yet these very Names so taken up, gave occasion afterwards of setting up the greatest Idol that ever was in the world, as we see at this day. So dangerous is it to expresse Divine matters by any other Name, then what the Scripture hath given them. Seeing then that in Scripture we find no such words as Reall Presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament: it is not safe for Christians to take them up. And so much the more, because we see by experience the mischiefes, that this reall presence (so called and so understood, as the Papists doe) hath done in the Church of God. How many Martyrs hath it made? How much innocent blood hath it spilt? So as it hath gotten (and that deservedly) a very bad Name. And it is the Name, or Word, wherby the Romanists expresse their Great Idol in the Masse. And David saith, **Psal. 16.4.Ps 16:4Their Drinke offerings of Blood will I not offer, nor take up their Names into my lips. So as Christians ought not to use the Names of Idols, invented by man, to expresse Divine things of Scripture by. Yea K. Hezechiah, when the Brazen Serpent (which God himselfe had ‡‡Num. 21.9▪Num 21:9commanded to be made for the present occasion in the Wildernesse; though he commanded it not to be kept for a Monument) began to be abused unto ‡‡2 Kin. 18.4… ▪2 Kgs 18:4Idolatry, he brake it to pieces. And so in this case, though these words The Reall Presence, may beare a good sense: yet being, and that of long time abused to the setting up and upholding of most grosse Idolatry: we are to stamp it to powder, and never use it more. And we have as little reason to be perswaded hereto by your Lordship as by any. For as this word, Reall presence, is very suspicious, in it selfe, and much more in regard of the Papists abusing of it: so it wants not suspicion, that you so commend it unto us. First, in regard of the whole matter of your Book, which generally complyes with Popery: Secondly, in regard of the main scope of your Booke, which is p. 352to bring on a Reconciliation with Rome. And Thirdly, and more especially, in regard of some speeches, which have now and then dropped from you in publick Court, where speaking of Altars-placing, you said, you would have none to sit above God-Allmighty; which must needs imply (as before is noted) that either your Altar is your God Allmighty; or els God Allmighty hath a locall presence and residence there upon your Altar. And so Fourthly, your eager zeale, in promoting of Altars, makes us much to suspect your Reall Presence, as fearing all will not be well, when once we have taken up, and let down this Reall presence of God Allmighty into our bellies. And so also, Fiftly, your Priests (by that Name) doe increase the suspition. And Sixtly, because you tell us before of a Transubstantiation, taken properly, and improperly. And Seventhly, Because you tell us by and by, that Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Forbearance of the Cup, are but Disputed and Improbable Opinions. Lastly, it is used to Idolatry: and so to be broken in pieces, as the Brazen Serpent was. And therfore for all these Reasons, we desire not to be troubled with your Reall presence, but leave it to the Papists, or to you, to restore it where you had it, or if you like it so well to use it, let it be to your selfe, or Chappell at Lambeth, trouble not the Church of England with it any more, which desireth not more matter for a new Booke of Martyrs.

Now to come to the Martyrs. First for Ioh. Friths words, Not to make it an Article of Faith, but leave it Indifferent. First, However the words sound, we must weigh them by the sense. And the best Commentary of his words, is his death, which he suffered even therfore, because he made it an Article of his faith to beleeve, that Christ was not Really Present in the Sacrament, as the Papists do hold; and therfore on the contrary, he held it as an Article of his faith, That Christ was onelyonly vertually and spiritually present to the Faith of the Receiver, according to the true meaning of those Sacramentall words, This is my body; as a little before we shewed.

Secondly, to take Friths words in your sense, doth overthrow a Christians faith, as touching the Sacrament, wherein the beleever receives and applyes by faith the merits of Christs death to the comforting, nourishing, and strengthning of his soule. And a man is bound to beleeve aright concerning the Sacrament, and to put a maine difference between truth and erro… therein. And is it not an Article of Faith to beleeve Christs body p. 353not to be corporally present in the Sacrament, seeing he saith, **Mat. 26.11▪Matt 26:11Me have you not alwayes. ‡‡Ioh. 16.7.John 16:7It is expedient for you that I goe away: ‡‡Rom. 8.34.Rom 8:34who sits at Gods right hand: §§Act. 3.21.Acts 3:21whom the heavens must receive, till his coming againe? And lastly, admit his words may be stretched to the full bredth of your sense (which is erronious) wee must measure all mens words by the Rule of Scripture in divin, matters. If they dissent, or come short, or goe over, or besides consider men are men. But I say, we cannot conceive that those words of Iohn Frith could have any other sense, then that which was sound and good, considering (as I said before) he dyed for that very difference in Faith touching Christs presence in the Sacrament ▪

Now for Dr Ridley, saying we differed in Modo, in the manner: 'Tis true. And the manner is the whole matter of difference. Papists say, Christs naturall Body is present: we that the merit and vertue of his Body broken upon the Crosse, and the merit and vertue of his Blood, shed upon the Crosse, is present to the beleeving soule in the Sacrament. I may expresse it by this similitude, of the Sun, and the beames. The body of the Sun is in heaven, in its spheare locally, and circumscriptively, but the Beames are on the earth. And when the Sun beames shine into our house, we say, here's the Sun, though it be the beames, not the body of the Sun. And so the Scripture saith of the Sacrament, This is my Body, because with the bread the faithfull Communicant receives the beames of Christs Body crucified into his soule, his merits, but not the Body it selfe. But the Papists say as much, as, The very body of the Sun is in their house, when it shineth. But enough of this here, having spoken sufficiently of it before. Yet for a conclusion: If your Lordship hold it to be a matter so indifferent, about the manner of Christs naturall-bodyes presence in the Sacrament, which you put upon the Martyrs, if you were put to it as they were; would you be of their mind, and resolution, rather to loose Canterbury, life and …, then beleeve as the Church of Rome beleeves of the reall presence. But I leave you to the Resolution.

L. p. 297. Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament, are disputed and improbable Opinions: yet so imposed▪ as this may be enough for us to leave Rome, though the Old Prophet forsooke not Israel. 3 Reg. 13. (And a little after) And therfore in this present case, ther's perill, and great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie, and other sin, by living and dying in the Roman faith▪ tainted with so many superstitions, as at this day it is, and their Tyranny to boot.

p. 354P. I told you, I feared some such thing, when you commended last unto us the indifferencie of admitting of Termes of Reall Presence. For now I perceive your Reall presence even in Transubstantiation it selfe, is but an improbable and disputed opinion, as also Purgatory, and the Forbearance of the Cup. And by Disputed, I suppose you meane Disputable, such as either hath been disputed, or may be disputed againe▪ so as these things are matters of dispute, and improbable. And somtimes a thing that is improbable, may prove true. For Improbabile is not alwayes falsum. It may seem improbable to us, and yet be true in it selfe. But for Transubstantiation: is that which is clearly against Faith, against Reason, against the nature of Christs Body naturall, against the nature of the Sacrament, but an improbable opinion? And for Purgatory: Is that which is against Faith, and overthrows the infinit vertue, merit, and efficacie of the blood of Christ, but an improbable opinion? And is that, which you confesse to be against the expresse institution of our Saviour Christ (as the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament) but an improbable opinion? And doe you so favourably call that, but a Forbearance, which is a most notorious and shamelesse Sacriledge?

And then secondly, All this (say you) may be enough for us to leave Rome. May be: Much may be: but Is not, I hope. And so long, well enough. And though Actu it be, yet not affectu. But you might have said, All this, and much more besides, if not onelyonly disputable and improbable things, but abominable and damnable. But this is enough, were there no more. Yet (say you) the old Prophet forsook not Israel. What then? Ergo the Protestants, though they might have had cause enough to leave Rome, yet should have done rather as the old Prophet did, not to have made a separation from Rome. Ergo they were not so kind, as the old Prophet. But the old Prophet might continue in Israel upon better terms, then the Protestants could have done in Rome. For Israel had no Inquisition, as Rome hath. And you confesse that men might live in Israel, and injoy the liberty of their Conscience, seeing there was no Law made to restrain them from going to the one Altar at Ierusalem, or to constrain them to sacrifice in the high places. And yet that's more, then I beleeve can well be proved. For those 7000. that had not bowed to Baal did hide themselves, as not daring to professe and avow their Religion and Faith towards God, as before. So as it seems there was no open toleration in Israel for any to goe up to Ierusalem. And it can hardly be thought, that Ieroboam being a great Politician, p. 355should give toleration to his subjects to goe up to Ierusalem to worship, least they should fall back to Iuda againe, for prevention whereof the two Calves were set up, to keep the people at home. The like policie used the High Priests, Scribes and Pharisees to suppresse those that should confesse Christ, in making a Decree to **Ioh. 9.22.34▪John 9:22John 9:34excommunicate them, and so in puting Christ to death, least his Kingdome should put down theirs. And I hope your Hierarchy wants not the like policie, for the rooting out of Puritans, the true Professors and People of Christs Kingdome, being Christs Kingdome and yours cannot consist together.

But you conclude, somwhat dangerously, when you say, Therfore in the present case ther's perill, great perill of damnable both Schisme, and Heresie, and other sins, by living and dying in the Roman faith, tainted with so many superstitions, as at this day it is, and their Tyranny to boot. This conclusion you apply, not to the silly ignorant Papists (for you leave them secure, and out of danger, as afore) but to the knowing men of Rome, having shewed them, that though the silly ignorants may perhaps through the thick fogge and Aegyptian Myst of their palpable ignorance steale, or stumble into heaven: yet for the learned, as A.C. and his fellowes, 'tis danger, yea great danger to live and dye (and that knowingly) in the Roman faith. But me thinks neither here do you buckle your selfe to such a serious businesse as this is, so as to pull these wilfull men out of their puddle, wherein they wittingly stick so fast. You doe not with the spirit of zeale, which Iude requires in good Ministers, saying, ‡‡Iude 23.Jude 1:23some save with feare, a…prázontes, snatching or plucking them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted with the flesh. Nor doe you with Peters zeale tell these men, ‡‡Act. 2.40.Acts 2:40save your selves from this crooked and wicked Generation; such as the Scribes and Pharisees, and High-Priests were. But you onelyonly tell them, Ther's danger, great danger. Of what? Of no lesse then Heresie and Schisme, and other sinne too, living and dying in the Roman faith. Nay if there be but perill, though great perill, these pregnant Wits have wayes and wiles enough to avoyd all such perills; and that by the cleane strength of their Art of equivocation, wherein they are become the most expert Masters in the world. Except they have forgotten it, it is so long agoe since our Judges were wont to put them shrewdly to it, as to confesse whether they were Priests or no; which confession then was as good, as to be hangd. And you say elsewhere, §§See before.such can make a short cut to heaven, when they lye a dying, saying, They renounce all their own merits (whither their p. 356many bad, or their few Good merits, is not known) and rely onelyonly upon Christs merits for salvation. As your good Brother Stephen Gardiner did at his death (as before But when they dye in so good a mood, though they may seem (as Gardiner seemed) to dye in the faith, yet in charity they do not, while they leave not the same gappe open for the people, by which themselves get through, concealing Iustification by Faith from the silly vulgar. In which desperate case had not your Lordships charity put in to helpe at a dead lift, to teach them a blind way to heaven, which scarce any Jesuites, before you, ever knew: What had become of them? But (alas!) As you delude those silly ignorants, by telling them such a way leads to heaven, which will carry them straight to hell: so on the other side you doe but dally with A. C. and his fellows, in telling them they are in perill onelyonly, when they are in the very precipice of perdition. But if you intended to be their Ghostly Father indeed, you should have told them plainly, Their Religion is Idolatry, Heresie, Schisme, Apostacie, Antichristianisme, Infidelity, and all manner of In…quity, and Impiety, so as to live and dye therein is inevitable damnation to all Papists whatsoever, but double damnation to those that know it. For as Christ saith, **Luk. 12.…7.48.Luke 12:7Luke 12:48That servant, which knew his Lords will, and prepared not himselfe, neither did according to his will shalbe beaten with many stripes: But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shalbe beaten with few stripes But what should a man speake to ‡‡Psa. 58.4.5.Ps 58:4Ps 58:5the deafe Adder▪ that stoppes her eare, and will not hearken to the voyce of Charmers, charming never so wisely? I will follow my Lords Councel, ‡‡Mat. 15.14.Matt 15:14Let them alone, They be blind leaders of the blind; and if the blind lead the blind they shall both fall into the pit. And as he saith to the Pharisees, §§Mat. 23.32.Matt 23:32Fill ye up the measure of your Fathers. But how come you to say, Ther's danger of Schisme, living and dying in the Roman faith. What? Can a man be a Schismaticke▪ being a Romanist? Then is not the Church of Rome her selfe a Schismatick? And so the Church of England all one Church. And so your Catholicke Church, of which you and Rome are, all Schismaticks? Look to it.

But I may not leap over that, which you have stumbled upon, namely, Romes Tyranny to boot. And it were well, if such Tyranny were confined to Rome; saving that all Tyranny is such, as it will not be confined to any place, within any bounds. You say, that the Church of England, and that of Rome, are one and the same Church. Certainly then, this One Church (what ever you pretend of the Catholick Church) is of such a constitution, as p. 357whose very foundation is Tyranny, because Hierarchicall. As Pope Hadoian ▪4. an English man, lying extreme sick, said, That there was no life more wicked, then the Popes, whose Popedome was founded in blood, and is maintained with blood, wherein he is Romulus his successor, who in laying the first foundation of Rome, slew his brother Remus. And wherein doth the Tyranny of your Popedome in the Church of England come short of the Popes, saving that he hath a more powerfull Principality, then you have. Have not you in your hand, like that Roman Iupiter, (the Pope) your thunderbol… of Excommunication, to blast and cast out of the Church whom you please, or those who do not please you? Do not the Censures of your High Commission (like the Popes Court of Inquisit…n) extend to the spoyling of good Ministers and Christians of all liberty and livelyhood? You will say, You use no **Pag. 298.fagots, as Rome doth. 'Tis true: 'tis not yet come to that. But whe…'s the default? You onelyonly want a Law. But in the mean time, you want not your devises, armed both with your own power, and borrowed of others, to afflict men worse, then with death, as before is shewed in the forenamed examples. And therfore from all such Tyranny both English, and Romish, the Lord deliver us.

L. p. 299. I do indeed for my part (leaving other men free to their own judgement) acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church. But so, as that which I grant to Romanists, is not as they are Romanists, but as they are Christians, that is, as they beleeve the Creed, and hold the Foundation Christ himselfe, not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the grosse superstitions of the Romish Church.

P. Now you speake a little more plaine, then before. But how do you leave other men free to their own judgement, when for not being of your judgement in this point, you cens…re them of stiffenesse, and churlishnesse, and want of Charity. And yet you your selfe say, that there is no possibility of Salvation for Romanists as they are Romanists. So as your judgement is, That Romanists, as, they are Romanists, have no possibility of Salvation. Ergo no Papist, as a Papist, living and dying in the faith and Religion of Popery, can possibly be saved. And just so say those Protestants whom you Censure for stiffe, churlish, and uncharitable. OnelyOnly you qualifie it with this Condition, If they wittingly and knowingly associate themselves to the grosse Superstition, of the Romish Church, so as still you save harmlesse your silly ignorant Papists, that know nothing at all, whether they doe and beleeve right, or wrong. And you p. 355distinguish, That, as Romanists, they cannot be saved, but as Christians, beleeving the Creed, and holding the foundation Christ. But we told you before, that your silly ignorant Papists do not so much as understand or know the very letter of the Creed, how much lesse beleeve it? If they can mumble over their Creed as many a blind Priest doth his M…sse, 'tis in a strange tongue, and they say it for one of their blind and superstitious Prayers, as they doe their Ave Marie. So, that way, what hope, or possibility can they have of salv…tion? And for holding the foundation Christ: to that we have before sufficiently proved the Contrary. But say you they are Christians. So you say, they are Romanists too. As one telling the Emperour Sigismund of Iulianus the Cardinal, speaking somthing in his Commendation: he answered, Tamen Romanus est: yet he is a Romanist. And this Romanist is like the Colloquintida in the **2 Kin. 4.40.2 Kgs 4:40pot of pottage, of which the young Prophets said to Elizeus, Ther's death in the pot. Or like the ‡‡Eccl. 10.1.Eccl 10:1flye in the Apothecaries box of oyntment, it marres and corrupts the whole oyntment. And a man may say of your Roman Christians, or Christian Romanist (which you will) as one said of a wicked Prelate, who was also a Temporall Prince (as you be) when he gloryed of his greatnesse, as being both a Prelate, and a Prince, or Earle: What shalbecome of the Bishop, when the Earle is in hell? So what shal become of your Romanist, as a Christian, when your Christian as a Romanist, is in hell?

L. p. ibid I am willing to hope, there are many among them, which k…ep within the Church, and yet wish the Superstitions abolished, which they know, and which pray to God to forgive their errours in what they know not, and which hold the foundation firme, and live accordingly, and would have all things amended, that are amisse, were it in their power. And to such I dare not deny a possibility of Salvation, for that which is Christs in them, though they hazzard themselves extremely, by keeping so closse to that, which is Superstition, and in the case of Images comes too neare to Idolatry.

P. Your Hope and Charity may be much, but in this can doe but little. But 'tis possible, that some may keep within the Confines of that Church-Dominions, and more powerfull Principality, and yet not be of that Church: as those seven thousand in Israel forementioned. Of such (if any such there be) we may well hope of their salvation: although they cannot live in those places, where Popery beares sway, but with much danger to their bodies and estates, and some to their soules too. As I perswade my selfe, for all your diligent Inquisition and hunting with p. 359your Hounds, Beagles, and Prosecutions, or (if you will persecutions in your High Commission, and other spirituall Co…ts, there are many poore honest soules in England, that truly feare God, and abhorre your superstitions, and oppressions, but in regard of their bodies and estates cannot be but in dayly danger of falling into your Lyons denne, if but once detected. But for others, who are sensible of your Tyrannicall yoake, and groane under the burthens of your superstitions and Ceremonies, yet have not the heart, and courage of the spirit of Christ to with-draw their necks, but indure all your bondage, so they may injoy the fleshpots of Aegipt: however they may wish to be free, yet you know the Proverbe, Wishers and Woulders. And so of those in the Church of Rome: some Errours some may see, and be sensible of them, and wish them removed: but in the mean time, will they, nill they, they must undergoe them, and that even against their Conscience; so as me thinks, this should somwhat abate and snibbe your willingnesse to hope of any possibility of salvation for such, as against their Conscience, and for worldly respects, live in known errour. Nor can he possibly avoyd it, so long as he lives in and of that Church. For as Solomon saith, **Prov. 6.27, 28, 29.Prov 6:27Prov 6:28Prov 6:29Can a man take fire in his bosome, and not be burnt? Can one goe upon hot coales, and his feet not be burnt? so who so toucheth a whorish woman, shall not be innocent. Now he that lives in and of the Romish Church, lives in the whores bosome, and is a ‡‡1 Cor. 6.16.1 Cor 6:16member of the whore. And perhaps many a one feeling how hot the bosome is, wisheth he were out of it; but hath not the Power, being (as Solomon saith) plunged into a deep pit. ‡‡Pro. 22.14.Prov 22:14The mouth of a strange Woman is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the Lord, shall fall therin. And once in, 'tis hard getting out. Nor all a mans wishing will doe it. But (say you) he prayes to God to forgive him his Errours, that he knows not. What then? Is he the nearer salvation, when he still lives in the errour that he knows, and onelyonly wisheth to be amended? And doth not many a man live in a known sinne as whoredome, or drunkennesse, or the like, and being convinced of the foulenesse of it, and the many evils it brings upon him, wishes he could leave it, and prayes God to forgive him, and yet lives in it still? Is he ever the neare to mercy? Nay he is the further off, as being habituated and hardened in his sin, known sin, wherein he lives unpenitently. Wheras Solomon saith, §§Pro. 28.13.Prov 28:13He that confesseth, and forsaketh his sins, shall have mercy: But he that hideth his sins shall not prosper. And you here bring some Papist in, confessing the errours which he knows not, as praying God to forgive them: but never a word of p. 360his confessing and praying God to forgive those errours which he knows ▪ and wherein he lives. So here is a hiding of his known errours. But it were too grosse to bring him in, confessing, and deprecating God for his known errours, wherein he still liveth, and though he wish them amended in the Church of Rome, yet amends them not himselfe, nor doe you tell us, that he doth so much, as wish them amended in himselfe, and therfore you prudently forbeare the mention of any such thing, as his praying to have his known errours forgiven. For that should put a man into a desperate case, shuting him out of all hope and possibility of salvation, to mock God to his face ▪ in praying to have those Errours and sins forgiven him, in which against his Conscience he both liveth, and resolveth no other (though he wisheth) but to dye.

But yet (say you such hold the foundation Christ. How? As they that held him fast, when they crucified him. For such as live in known sin, and errour, they (as the Apostle saith) * crucifie to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Such holding of Christ, is not to hold him as a foundation, but to overthrow the foundation. For Christ dyed, not to hold to deliver us from the punishment of sin, but from the guilt and dominion of sin, by working in us Faith and Repentance. So as to professe Christ, and to want these, yea to live in known sin and errour, onelyonly with a faint wishing of amendment, is not to hold the foundation Christ, but to make him a false foundation, as if he were a Saviour of such, as so live in known sin and errour, as they resolve no other, but to live and dye in it. And we have proved before, that Romes Religion quite overthrows the foundation Christ: so as none, living and dying in the Faith of that Church can be saved, and the more he knows it, and yet lives in it, the greater is his damnation, though he wish never so much to have the errour amended.

But you say, Christ hath a part in them. I answere with the Apostle, ‡‡Heb. 6.6.Heb 6:6The Foundation of God stands sure, and hath this seale, The Lord knoweth them that are his: and▪ let every one, that nameth the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. Loe, here be two things joyned together, which must not be parted: 1. The Lord knoweth who are his: here's Gods foundation, layd in his Eternall Counsell and Purpose, according to that of the Apostle, O'ùs proégno, Whom he foreknew (not foresaw) he preaestinated to be conformed to the Image of his Son ▪ &c. Here's Gods foundation, that stands sure, and hath this seale, The Lord knoweth who are his. Now they that are Christs, do so hold this foundation, as that they are firmly built p. 361upon it; which is properly to hold the Foundation. For if a house stand not upon the foundation, how can it be said to hold the foundation? Now how come we to know, whether a man doe thus truly hold the foundation Christ or no? Why, if he be built upon this Foundation. And what is it to be built upon this Foundation? The Apostle tells us (which is the second part of this seale, that settles us upon this Foundation) And, let every one, that nameth the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. Now to name the Name of Christ, is not to professe Christ, as nominall Christians, as Papists doe. To apply this then to your hopefull Papist, or Christian Romanist: He names the name of Christ, he professeth Christ. Thus say you) he holds the Foundation Christ. No say I: No, saith the Apostle. For being a Roman-Christian, he professeth, he practiseth, he liveth in the Religion and faith of Rome, to wit, Popery; and this Pop…ry is iniquity, yea the very Mystery of Iniquity, and the Religion of the Whore of Babylon, whose golden Cup of Christian Profession **Revel. 17.Rev 17is full of abominations, and spirituall fornications. This being iniquity, he that holds the foundation Christ, must depart from it: Or els, for all his naming the Name of Christ, he holds not the foundation of God; nor doth God know or acknowledge that man to be one of his, he is not ‡‡Revel. 7.….4.6 &Rev 7sealed. And therfore your hope of such, that are thus purblind, seeing their errour, but not departing from it, is as vaine, as your charity towards those, that are stone-blind. And you adde: Hold the Foundation, and live accordingly. That is, have the bare name of a Christian, and live and dye a Papist; which to doe, you must needs confesse, cannot stand with the possibility of Salvation. And then what becomes of your hope? For how can holding the foundation, and living accordingly stand with the profession and practise, Faith and Religion of Popery? And know ye not, ‡‡Mat. 7.21.Matt 7:21That not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdome of heaven, but he (saith Christ) that Doth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. And what is that will? That every one that nameth the Name of Christ, depart from Iniquity. What Iniquity? All Iniquity. But what is iniquity? All iniquity is either morall, or spirituall. Morall iniquity is all that, which is a breach of any of the Commandements of the second Table, as murther, Adultery, theft, falsewitnesse, covetousnesse, lust, dis…bedience to Parents, and lawfull Governours in lawfull things, and the like. Spirituall iniquity, is such▪ as is against the Commandements of the first Table, as Infidelity, hatred of the Truth, Idolatry, as in the worship of Images, will-worship, superstition in Gods worship, taking of Gods p. 362name in vaine, in professing Christ, and obeying Antichrist, profanation of the Lords Sabbath day, &c. Now all such iniquity, both morall, and spirituall, even all such **Ephes. 6.12.Eph 6:12spirituall wickednesses in high places a true Christian must not onelyonly wrestle against, but depart and flee from. Otherwise, though he shall say to Christ in that day, ‡‡Mat. 7.22. Lu. 13.26, 27.Matt 7:22Lord Lord, H…ve we not prophecied in thy Name, and in thy Name have cast out Devils, and in thy Name have done many wonderfull works (as perhaps the Mountebank Friers and Priests will say of their ‡‡2 Thes. 22 Thess 2lying wonders, the marks of Antichrist) (Loe here, all in Christs name, no lesse) yet Christ will professe unto them, I never knew you, depart from me, ye workers of iniquity. Thus Christ professeth, he knows not those, that onelyonly professe him. So as, whatever Papists may boast of, or pretend, and professe, that they are Catholicks, that they are Christians, that they hold the Creed, and live a Religious life, as their Ghostly Fathers teach them (as we noted before) yet living and dying Papists, Christ shall certainly say unto them all, aswell the starke blind, as the purblind, and aswell both these as the knowing men of Rome, Depart from me, all ye workers of Iniquity, ye Idolaters, ye Infidels, ye Antichristians, ye Hypocrites, ye blind and ignorant: I never knew you.

And you adde, They hazzard themselves extremely, by keeping so closse to that, which is superstition, and in the case of Images, comes too neare to Idolatry. Thus I perceive you will not rayse up your voyce one note higher, then to superstition, or at the most, too …eare Idolatry. Not Idolatry outright, onelyonly bordering closse upon it, too neare it God wote, as Purgatory is too neare hell, onelyonly a Wainscot between, and how soon burnt down, and long ere now, with so hot a fire on both sides, so as 'tis to be more then feared, Purgatory and Hell, by this time, are become both one, and so while your too neare Borderers upon Idolatry, your worshipers of Images, might hope to find some cold comfort, when they should be in their hot Purgatory, that by the vertue of a few Masses, they may quickly be dispatched thence, they find now such a confusion and mixture of Hell and Purgatory, that they cannot find the way out. And so neare Idolatry is your case of Images, that it is not possible for the subtilest Schoolman to distinguish between them, such is their not onelyonly contiguity, but continuity, the Scripture calling an Image an Idol: cídolon, being in the Grammaticall and common construction an Image, and in the Ecclesiasticall use of the Word, any Image or Representation which men have devised to set up for a Religious p. 363use, as in or by it to worship God or Saint. And we have shewed before, that if the Heathen in the worship of ther Images were Idolaters: then how much more the Papists, which both in their Doctrine and Practise do farre outstrippe the Heathen. Nor in the case of Images alone, are Papists most grosse and desperate Idolaters, but also in the worship of their breaden God, and in their worship of Angels, and Invocation of Saints, making them so many Gods, as also the Crosse it selfe, which they both invocate, and worship with Latria, which they call divine worship; as before.

L. p. 302. Worth once mislead, is of all other the greatest misleader.

P. And who of more worth in the account of some in the world, then your Lordship. If then this worth be misled (as your Charity and Hope of misled Papists) it becomes of all other the greatest misleader. For this worth is become the greatest misleader both of Papists and Protestants, both of the Church of Rome, and of the Church of England. And that the greatest too. And I am perswaded, the Church of England, since it professed the Gospell, never had such a monstrous and Bayeyard-like bold misleader, as this Great worth of Canterbury hath proved to be, or will certainly proove in effect, if it find as blind Disciples to deale witthall, as it selfe is a Master. Although it is much hoped, that if any Man hath conceived such an high Opinion of your worth, as to account you for the most Profound Divine, the most Pregnant Politician, and the most potent Champion of the Church of England, the very Reading of this your Book, with a corrected judgement, will either convert him from this errour, or at least prevent, that this errour of your Doctorship shall not Commence, or Proceed to the degree of Heresie

L. p. 303. 'Tis safest to beleeue the Article of Christs Descent into hell, as both the Churches of England, and of Rome, do agree upon, that is, That he descended into the place of the damned. And this is the truth.

P. Surely, if this be the truth, that Christ descended locally into hell, the place of the damned, it were safest to beleeve it, whether you and Rome consent in the beliefe of it▪ or no. But because you beleeve, as the Church of Rome beleeves, will you thereupon conclude, This is the truth? Certainly we have the more cause to suspect that truth for a falshood, wherein you and Rome doe both agree. But how true your beliefe with Rome is, and how true this Truth, we have before sufficiently discovered. p. 364But will this hold for a good Rule, that in what you and Rome agree it is safest to beleeve it? You agree in Altars, Priests, Sacrifice, all manner of wil-worship, Antichristianisme, and many things more forespecified: Ergo is't safest to beleeve these things? Or for whom safest? safest for all those, that affect, to be of your Church Tryumphant here, and would not come under your persecution. But how agrees this with that which you adde (ibid.) that Rome will not indure this, that Christ descended into the place of the damned, but onelyonly in Limbum Patrum, a Region in the upper part of Hell Ergo rather then faile, if Rome will not beleeve as you doe, That Christ discended into the place of the damned, you will beleeve as she beleeves, that he d…scended in Limbum Patrum. For agree you must: and that's the safest beliefe.

L. p. 307. I my selfe have heard some Iesuites confesse, that in the Liturgie of the Church of England, ther's no positive errour.

P. 'Tis a signe then your Liturgie agrees pretty well with the Romish Messal, as is noted by the way before. For surely such a Testimony from a Jesuites mouth, gives us the more cause of suspicion, that all is not so well in your Liturgie, as it should be. As Diogenes sayd, when the people applauded him: he began to suspect himselfe, that he had committed some absurdity, or other, saying, Wherein have I miscarryed my selfe, that this people doth so commend me?

L. p. 318. Though Dr. White, late Bishop of Ely, was more able to answere for himselfe, yet since he is now dead, and is thus drawn into this Discourse, I shall, as well as I can, doe him the right, which his learning and paines for the Church deserved. And I grant as well as he, that there must be some one Church or other, continually visible.

P. First, for Dr. White, he being now dead (which he was long before) I will say no more, but this: For his deserving pains for the Church (the Church of England you meane, as now it stands, the same Church with that of Rome, and of the same Faith with her; and of which Faith he also declared himselfe to be, when he told a Minister, that the Difference between the Church of Rome and of England in the Doctrines of the sixt Session of Trent, and by name, of Grace and Justification was little or nothing) how great it was, his Works extant can witnesse; as namely his Approbation prefixed to your now Brother of Chichester; his Appeale to Caesar, wherein is maintained the whole Body of your Arminian Heresie, together in all, or p. 395most of the grossest points of Popery, as worship of Images at least with Doulia, and the like, and assaying to prove the Pope not to be Antichrist, as if he would solem è coelo tollere: also Dr. Whites Book of the Sabbath, to prove no Sabbath to Christians, and the fourth Commandement not to be Morall, for the keeping of one day in the weeke, as the Lords Day: allowing also of vaine sports, and profane pastimes on that Day: and commending of praying towards the East, where your Altar is placed, and such like stuffe: in all which he so well deserved of your Church of England, as he scarce had his fellow; onelyonly if he were now living againe, he would yeeld the Bucklers to your Lordship as the bravest Champion of the now Chuch of England that hath risen up in this latter Age, or yet succeeding times may hope to produce.

But let us now heare the right, which your Lordship does him, and which his paines for the Church deserved. But first▪ let me tell you, you forget here to give him his Title of Lord Bishop, which you indeed gave him in the very first page of your Booke. But now his Lordship is dead let not Lord and Bishop be separated in any case, no not by death it selfe. For indeed Lord-Bishop is a peculiar Title, differencing you from all true Bishops indeed, as the Scripture commendeth for the onelyonly Bishops, as is shewed before: yet I know not how it is come to passe, that in the best Reformed Churches beyound the Seas, the Pastors are never called Bishops. I suppose it is, because as Kings of old were stiled Tyranni, and that in melior…m partem, untill degenerating into Lawlesse Tyrants indeed, good Kings would thereupon never after be called Tiranni, but Kings: so the Reformed Churches, seeing how the name of Bishop gr…w to be odious, the Office and Calling of it being changed … that of a Parochiall Pastor into a Diocesan Lordship, and so … ▪ have for this cause layd aside the Name of Bishop, though otherwise the Name is good, as it pertaines to the true … and Presbyters over particular Congregations, as is before sh…wed: so as the Reformed Churches doe herein as the Ancient Romans did, who when their Kings turned Tyrants, the l…st whe… of was Tarquinius surnamed Super…us, for his extreme … ▪ they for ever banished both the name of Kings, and … out of their Commonweale. But let us see, how you recompense the omission of this Lordly Title in this place, to such a well deserving man. You adde: And I grant, as well as he, that there … be some one Church or other continually visible. A… well a… he. This then may seem to be some recompense, by way of honour, and … p. 366some doing of him Right (for indeed his main reward he had in his life time: and what he hath now I cannot tell) that the Lords Grace of Canterbury is pleased to Grace the late Lord Bishop of Eli, by being of the same opinion with him. Well: what's the Opinion? That there must be some one Church or other continually visible; That some one Church or other hath still been visible, I shall not grudge you. But take my meaning withall. Some false Church or other hath been (though why must be, I see no reason; saving that there **1 Cor. 11.191 Cor 11:19must be Heresies even among the Churches of God) continually visible, ever since the Apostles times. And the Church of Rome for Instance hath bore the bell away: which degenerating into an Antichristian Church, hath been still visible, though not alwayes in one and the same place, but most. What at Rome, and somtimes at Aninion in France ▪ (for where the Popes Court is, there is the Church in its glorious conspicuity) yet somtime without a Head, somtime with two Heads, somtime with three Heads, that a man might say, The Porter of Heaven-gates had three Heads, as the Poets fained Cerberus the Porter of Hell to have had. But for the true Church of God, that may somtimes be hid. For first (as we shewed before) there was no true Church visible among the revolted Ten Tribes. Secondly, not in ‡‡2 Chron 28.2 Chr 28Ahaz his time, when he shut up the Temple ▪ and and served Idols in every Corner of Ierusalem; and then where was the Church visible the while, when the whole publick service and worship of God was suppressed, the Temple being shut up. Againe, also in Ioah his time was the like, as ye may reade, 2 Chro. 24.17. to 22, &c. Lastly, when the Temple was burnt, and all the people of God dispersed Captives in Babylon, where they could ‡‡Psalm. 137.Ps 137not sing one song of Sion: Where was then the visible Church the while? But you will say, They might have Synagogues in Babylon. But you cannot prove it. And the Prophet Esay saith, That §§Esa. 42.22.Isa 42:22they were hid in Prisons: As many of Christs deare servants are at this day in your Church of England. And what say you for that 30 dayes Interdiction, that no man should make any suit, to God or man during that space. Where was then the Church visible But that was but for 30 dayes. But you and Dr. White are for a continuall visibility. And it seems you herein jumpe with the Jesuites, who stand upon a continuall visibility every day, alledging that of Christ ††Mat. 28 20.Matt 28:20And loe I am with you pa…as tàs e m…meras, which our English turnes, Allwayes, but they, **Vulgar Latin, … Di…r.All the dayes, to wit, everyday Which they doe, to puzzle Protestants in shewing their visible succession every day without p. 367fayle, since Christs time. But you will say perhaps Daniel was found praying in those dayes. But he was but one single Man, and so not Ecclesiâ, a Church or Congregation. And if he prayed with his Family, it was but in his private house, and you will hardly allow that for a visible Church, but rather call it a private Conventicle. And if with this Family, then (if at least you had but sent your Pursuivants) not onelyonly Daniel, but (according to the Kings strict Decree) his whole Family should have been cast with him into the Lyons denne. So during the Aegyptian servitude, what conspicuity of a Church in Israel? Now and then perhaps, in some godly Families, there might be two or three assembled. Yet this private still, visible you will not call it. For you will not allow Churches in private Families, though they **Rom. 16.5.Rom 16:5were in the Apostles time. And such Churches (so visible, as two or three are visible when you see them, but the world takes no notice of them as Churches) Christ never fayles to have in the world. And these Congregations in private Families, being driven from your publick Idolatrous Superstition in your Churches, are so hid many times, that your blood-hounds cannot trace them, or hunt them out. But as for such a Conspicuous, Glorious, Visibility of succession of such Prelaticall Heads of Hierarchicall Churches, though such may be alwayes in some Countrey or other resplendent, eminent, and apparent, yet Christs poore Church the while may be, and commonly is hid, as little starres, especially where such great ‡‡Mat. 13.6.21▪Matt 13:6Matt 13:21Luminaria as your Lordships spread out your hot and fiery beames. As the Woman, the Church (as before; which here we recapitulate, to incounter two such Giants) when she fled from the Dragon, and his flood of persecution into the Wildernesse, who saw her then and there? And when the whole world was turned Arian, where was the true Church visible? And so since Antichrist came to his Xenith, or Vereticall point, to his Meridian brightnesse, how hath Christs Church been hid in corners, as among the Merindolians, Cabriers, Waldensis, and others, who were still persecuted by that Beast, and his Crew. As Solomon saith, ‡‡Pro. 28.28.Prov 28:28When the wicked rise, men hide themselves. And so we may truly say, When Prelates rise, and beare sway, and grow most resplendent and predominant in their Potent Principalities: then Gods people hide themselves. And the Apostle saith of the beleevers, in the Old Testament, in times of persecution, or captivity, or of the Maccabees. They wandred about in sheep-skins, and Goat-skins, being destitute, afflicted, and tormented, of whom the world was p. 368not worthey: they wandred in Deserts, and in mountains, and in dennes and caves of the earth And who were all those trow you, but the true Church of God? And how was then the Church of God visible, but that one might see another. But such you will not allow to be visible Churches: 1. because you cannot see them: 2. because you do not allow to be Churches visible, no more then you do the Reformed Churches in Geneva, and among the Can…o…s, and those mountains, where you cannot see them; which is their safety, as not to feele you. And where was the visibility of Gods true Church in England, in Queen Maries dayes, in the midst of the black tempest of persecution, where you could not discerne one true Professour and Protestant, but by the light of that fire, which was by the Prelates kindled to burn them for Martyrs? Or if you, or your Beagles had hunted among the Woods, perhaps ye might have found halfe a dozen poore soules under some Tree shading them from the present heat of persecution, where they did solace their soules with having among them some few leaves of St. Pauls Epistles, which they read to strentghen and arme them against their …urne came. Call you this a visible Church? But you will say, The Church of England was then visible and conspicuous in the Bishops, and the publick Congregations throughout the Churches of the land, where Divine service, or Masse, was sung or sayd every day. Then was the Church visible in **Bonner.Edmund of London, and ‡‡Gardener.Stephen of Winchestr, and other their Associates, who were as Zealous Champions for the Church of England then, as you are now. So as that Church then (as now) was no lesse sensible, then visible, when sitting most conspicuous in their Courts they condemned Christs true Church for an Hereti…ke, delivering it over to the seculer power for a burnt sacrifice. And was not this that Church then, of which you tell us, when you say, Our Church was just there then, where Romes is n…w? So as we need make no doubt, but your now conspicuous Church of England was one and the same with that in Mary…s dayes; onelyonly that Church by vertue of a Law, burned the Saints of God: and you without Law bury them quick You a…e all for a conspicuous visibility of a Prelaticall or Hierarchicall Church. But Christs true Church as before) is otherwise: which hath for the Bishop of her soule,‡‡1 Pet. 2.25.1 Pet 2:25 the Lord Iesus Christ, who is no Non Resident Bishop, but perpetually resident and present with all his Congregations. Yea §§Mat. 15.20.Matt 15:20where but two or three are ass…m…led in his Name, there is He in the midst of them. He saith not In a Cathedrall, or other Church; but indefinitely, Wheresoever: p. 369as in a Chamber, in a private room, **Act. 1.…3.Acts 1:3as the Apostles were for feare of the High Priests. During which time, where was the conspicuous visibility of the true Church, untill the day of Penticost came, when there was a new Church coll…ctive of ‡‡Act. 2.Acts 2all nations under heaven? Againe, Christ saith not, Where there is a multitude: but, Where two or three: nor assembled, in a Prel…t…s name as members of a Prelaticall Church, but, In may Name saith Christ) in the faith of me, according to my word: then and there am I in the midst of them, to rule and protect, as King, to teach as Prophet, as Priest to present their persons and sacrifices to my Father. These, these are those Churches or Congregations, which you scorne and scoffe at, and which you persecute and punish as …alefactors for so assembling, as where Christ is present among them: which plainly bewrayes your selves to be the false Church, which you say must be continually visible

L. p. 320. A Church may hold the Fundamentall point literally, and as long as it stay…s there, be without controwle, and yet erre grosly, dangerously, nay damnably in the exposition of it. And this is the Church of Romes case. For most true it is, it hath in all Ages maintained the Faith unchanged in the expression of the Articles thems…lves: but it hath in the exposition both of Creeds and Councels quite changed and lost both the sense and meaning of some of them. So the Faith is in many things changed both for life, and beliefe, and yet seems the same. Now that which deceives the world is, that because the barke is the same, men thinke this old decayed tree is as sound, as it was at first, and not wether-beaten in any age. But when they can make me beleeve, that painting is true beauty. Ile beleeve too, that Rome is not onelyonly sound, but beautifull.

P. First here I must note the perplexed and confused frame of your first sentence. You say, A Church may hold th… fundamentall point literally, and as long as it stayes there, be without controwle, and yet erre grosly, dangerously, nay damnably in the exposition of it. As much as if you had sayd, That a Church may hold the fundamentall point literally, and erre grosly, dangerously, nay damnably in the exposition of it, and yet be without Controwle. As for, As long as it stayes there, namely in holding the fundamentall point literall… ▪ how is it without controwle, when notwithstanding the holding of the letter, it erre grosly, dangerously, nay damnably in the exposition of it? For you joyne and jumble all together, the holding of the letter, and the overthrowing of the sense, and yet want controwle. And what's the letter, where the sense is lost? What's the barke, when the pith and marrow is gone? As I…rome saith, Gods word p. 370standeth, non in verborum cortice, sed in medulla sententiarum: not in the barke of words, but in the pith of the sense. Well: And this is Romes case, say you. How? Most true it is (say you) that it hath in all ages maintained the faith unchanged in the expression of the Articles themselves: but it hath in the exposition both of Creeds and Councels, quite changed and lost the sense, and meaning of some of them. So the faith is in many things changed both for life and beliefe, and yet seems the same. Here againe do you not most pittifully enterfere? Faith is lost in the exposition, and yet kept in the expression of the Articles. Have not you lost sense in this expression, except you can recover it by a better exposition? For you separate the expression from the exposition. So you leave the Articles as a dead carcase, without a soule. For there is no faith kept in the expression of the letter, without the true exposition of the sense. And if the sense be lost, the faith is lost. And what expression of faith doe you call that, which is abstracted from the sence? But Rome hath lost the sense but of some of them. Of which? And whether of Creeds or Councels? For here you shuffle both together too, as making Councels of equall Authority with the Creeds. I did not thinke before this (nor yet) that Councels Decrees are to be taken as Creeds. OnelyOnly I might have learned of you before, That Councels Decrees, though they be erronious, must bind all to obedience: and then sure, they are little inferiour to Creeds: saving that those may be reversed by another Generall Councel, but these not.

But however, Rome is the same barke of a Church still. Ergo a true Church still. Why, the Barke is not the Tree: no more then a Sheep-skin is a Sheep No, nor yet hath Rome so much as the barke of the true Church of Christ left. Looke upon her outward hew and habit: and there we shall find nothing, but the habitements of the **Revel. 17.3, 4, 5, 6.Rev 17:3Rev 17:4Rev 17:5Rev 17:6great Whore, and the Ensignes of Antichrist with his Church Malignant, warring against the true Spouse, and Church of Christ. And both these we find in that one Chapter, where the Woman is set out to the life Her Habilements: She fits upon a scarlet coloured Beast, full of Names of Blasphemy, having seven Heads and Ten Hornes, and she is arayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold, and precious stone, and Pearle, having a golden Cup in her hand, full of abominations, and filthinesse of her fornications: with a Label on her forehead to know her the Better, a Name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and abominations of the Earth: and she is drunken with the blood of the Saints. And a little after we see her Ensignes set up, and those be her ten Hornes, the power of Kings, which she instigateth p. 371to **ver. 14.17.make warre with the Lamb, and those on his side, the Called, and Chosen, and Faithfull. Now the Whores habit is not the habit of Christs Spouse. This is not the barke of the weather-beaten Tree of Gods Church ▪ whose outward beauty is ‡‡Cant. 1.5, 6.Song 1:5Song 1:6black, but inwardly is ‡‡Esay. 6.13.Isa 6:13glorious, outwardly blasted as an §§Dan▪ 4.11▪ 12 &c. Iude. 12.Dan 4:11Dan 4:12Jude 1:12Oake, but the holy seed is the substance thereof. And if by black you understand the bare name of a Church, and profession of Christianity: That she hath changed too, as the Snake doth her skin slipping off the old, and taking on a new. For she is not content to be called Christs holy Church, but the Roman Catholicke Church. Whereas Christs Church is not denominated from any place. And as she is the Roman Church, so the Papall Church, being denominated from the Pope as her Head. Ergo none of Christs Church; for this acknowledgeth none for her Head, but Christ alone, who is the root of this Vine, and Olive Tree, that ministers sap and fatnesse unto it. If therfore Rome be any Tree at all, she is such, as is in Daniel, the Embleme of the Old Babylonian Tyranny and so a Type of Romes Babylonish usurped Power: § That Tree stretched out its boughs over the whole Earth, under whose shadow all the Beasts must have their sanctuary, as Rome applyeth, that of the Psalme 8.6, 7. And is this Tree (say you) but wether-beaten? Or but in some things unsound? When it hath lost not onelyonly the barke, but the pith of Christs Church; being all rotten within? Being such a Tree, as Iude describes, déndron phthinoporinòn akarpon, dìs apothanòn, a corrupt Tree without fruit, twice dead, and to be hewed down, plucked up by the roots, and cast into the fire. So as Rome is altogether naught, Intus & incute, Pith and Barke, Root and Branch, Fruit and Leafe. OnelyOnly a painted Tree, by which painting (as you say) she deceives the world, and your Lordship too, while you would be glad to take her with all faults, and be reconciled to her, takeing her painting for true beauty, or at the least on her outside more beauty, then painting, and in her inside more soundesse, then corruption. For you say, In some things onelyonly, both for life, and beliefe corrupted.

L. p. 321. Dr. White sayd onelyonly, that some Errours of the Church were fundamentall reductive, that is, if they which imbrace them, did pertinaciously adhere to them, having sufficient meanes of Information. And againe expresly, That none were damnable, so long as they were not held against Conscience.

P. Thus we come to know Dr. Whites judgement, and therein yours also. But against you both, as erronious in this p. 372point, I alledge the Scripture. What saith Christ of the Pharisees. **Mat. 15.14.Matt 15:14Let them alone, They are blind leaders of the blind: and if the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch. So you may see here (if ye be not blind) that blindnesse is damnable. But you will say, This was obstinate blindnesse, fighting against the light, 'Tis true, that the blindnesse of the Pharisees was obstinate, against the cleare light, and their own Consciences: but the blind people whom they led, were simply blind, out of meere ignorance, and so not against their Conscience: and yet both the leader and the led, fall into the ditch of damnation He that drinks deadly poyson ignorantly perisheth, as he that wittingly drinks it. The poyson is in it selfe mortall to all that drinke it, with what mind soever they doe it. And such is the poyson of sin and errour. OnelyOnly he that erres of ignorance, is more easily recovered, then one that is obstinate in his errour: and both, living and dying in the same errour, as of infidelity, and the like (which all Popery is) both are tormented in hell, but the obstinate more then the other: yet God is just in punishing both. So as all errour is damnable in all, but in some more, in some lesse. And it is of the same righteous judgement of God to deny to the ignorant means, and to others the right use of the means, by withholding his grace: and accordingly he is just in punishing all with a due proportion. And so ther's a difference between simple Papists living in the midst of the Aegyptian darknesse, where there is no light, nor meanes of knowledge, and simple Papists living in Goshen, where the light shineth where the Gospell is preached, and doe close their eyes wilfully, so as they obstinately refuse to see or heare▪ The sin of these certainly is much more damnable, then of the other, who have no meanes at all▪ Againe, Errours that are in their own nature damnable, are damnable in whomsoever they be, onelyonly in some more, in some lesse, but we cannot say, they are to some damnable, and to others not damnable. All sinne in its owne nature is damnable, and brings damnation with it to every Mothers son: is it then damnable to some, and not to others? ‡‡Rom. 5.12.Rom 5:12Did not death come upon all men, in asmuch as all men had sinned? And is not Errour whether in life, or beliefe, whether in the ignorant, or men of knowledge, sinne? Thus you and Dr. White mazzle ignorants in sinne. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the pit. But enough of this.

L. p. 32…. I would faine soe any one point maintained by the Church of England, that can be proved to depart from the Foundation.

p. 373P. Would you see it againe? We have proved it before, and that abundantly, that you maintain not one, but sundry points, wherein you depart from the foundation. Look before, and you shall see how you depart from the Foundation in your Tyrannicall Hierarchy or Prelacie, in your Altars, in overthrowing the Doctrines of Grace, in destroying the Doctrine and Practise of the 4th Commandement in sanctifying the Lords day, in forbidding Meates and Marriage at certaine times, which the Apostle calls directly and expresly a departing from the Faith, and Doctrines of Devils. Look backe, and see.

L. p. ibid. There is a latitude in the faith, especially in reference to different mens salvation. To set bounds to this, and strictly to define it for particular men. Iust thus farre you must beleeve in every particular, or incurre damnation, is no worke for my pen.

P. For the ground of this your speech, you quote Bellarmine in the Margent. I thought you raked it out of some puddle, seeing the Fou…taine it selfe, the Scripture, affords you no such corrupt stuffe. Nay more then that, you expresse your selfe in farre worse termes, then Bellarmine doth For Bellarmines words, which you quote, are these, Multa sunt de fide, quae non sunt absolutè necessaria and salutem: There be many things of Faith▪ which are not absolutely necessary to salvation. But you bring it down to every mans salvation, as if some things of faith were more absolutely necessary for some mens salvation, then for others. I passe by Bellarmine, and insist upon your own words, leaving him to cleare himselfe, There is (say you) a latitude of faith, especially in reference to different mens Salvation O… saving and justifying faith, you must meane, no question: For what faith is necessary for every mans salvation, but the saving faith, which comprehends in it whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation, as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God ▪ as is shewed before. And this saving faith is the faith of all them, that are **Heb. ….…4▪heires of salvation, to wit, of all Gods ‡‡Tit. 1.1.Titus 1:1Elect, and all the ‡‡Iude 3.Jude 1:3Saints. But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants, and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks: or the letter of the Creed for those, and the sense for these. But I handled this also before. OnelyOnly you propound a Paradox, which is no worke for your pen; wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles, had you been so wise, as not to have propounded …. And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chr…t to teach the people what to beleeve, and to exhort them to grow in Grace ▪ and p. 374knowledge, and Faith, and so **Col. 2.7. Phil. 1.9. Act. 20. 2 Tim. 2. 2 Pet. 1. Heb. 6.1. &c.Col 2:7Phil 1:9Acts 202 Tim 22 Pet 1Heb 6:1declare unto them the whole Coun…el of God, and to keep nothing backe, and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection. As the Preacher saith ‡‡Eccles. 12.9.10.11.Eccl 12:9Eccl 12:10Eccl 12:11Because the Preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge, yea he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in Order many Proverbs, The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words▪ and that which was written, was upright, even words of truth. The words of the wise are a… Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies, which are given from one shepheard. But this is not a patterne for you to follow, neither by your tongue, nor pen. You have other imployment for them. But though we cannot set a bound to faith, in respect of perfection of degrees, yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge, striving unto perfection. And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ, to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith, in discovering all manner of sins and errours, which are all contrary, and enemies to faith and salvation. For which end, they must open all the ten Commandements, as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine, in the Scriptures. Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve: yet you want no will, nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers, shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people, and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge: as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace (as before) forbidding Lectures, and especially all Sermon… on the Lords day afternoon, forbidding long Preaching at any time, forbidding expounding of the Catethisme, as many of your Prelates doe, and the like. Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve, or know of God to their salvation. That's a worke, if not for your pen, or hand, yet for your head, and not unlikely of your hand and pen too.