Whole Works, Tracts 1 · Tract 4 · Part 4

Whole Works · Tracts 1 · Tract 4 · Part 4

p. 302An aunſwere vntounto Maſter Mores third booke.

p. 303IN his third boke he procedeth forth as before to proue that the opinions which the Popiſh teach without Scripture are of equal authoritie with the Scripture. He aſketh what if there had neuer bene Scripture written? I aunſwere, What i… there had bene no ſcripture.God careth for his elect & therfore hath prouided them of Scripture, to trie all thynges and to defend them from all falſe Prophetes. And I ſay moreouer that if there had ben no ſcripture written, that God for his mercy & fatherly louelove and care toward his elect muſt hauehave prouided, that there ſhould neuer hauehave bene hereſies or againſt all tymes when ſectes ſhould ariſe, hauehave ſtyred vp preachers to cōfound the he reſies with miracles. Take this example, the Grekes hauehave the Scripture & Grekes.ſerue God therin much more diligently thē we. Now let vsus geue that there were no Scripture, but that we receaued all our fayth by y^e authoritie of our elders, & the Grekes by y^e authoritie of God to… …de hereſ… cauſed the ſcriptures to be written▪their elders. Whē I ſhall diſpute with a Greke about the articles of the fayth which my elders taught me and his elders deny, as eareconfeſſion, the holy pardons of the Pope and all his power that he hath aboue other Biſhops & many other thynges beſide the Scripture which we hold for articles of our faith & they deny. If there be no other proofe of either part, then to ſay, my elders which cā not erre ſo affirme, & that he ſhould aunſwere, his Elders which can not not erre ſo deny, what reaſon is it, that I ſhould leaue the authoritie of my elders and goe & beleue his, or that he ſhould leaue the authoritie of his elders and come and beleue myne? none at all verely. But the one partie muſt ſhew a miracle or els we muſt referre our cauſes vntounto autēticke ſcripture receaued in olde tyme, & confirmed wyth myracles, and therewith trie the controuerſie of our Elders.

And when he aſketh, whether there Noe.were no true fayth from Adam to Noe. I anſwere, that god partly wrote their fayth in their ſacrifices and partly the Patriarkes were ful of miracles as ye may ſee in the Bible.

And when More to vtter his darcknes and blynde ignoraunce ſayth, that they which were ouerwhelmed wyth No yes floud, had a good faith, and bringeth for hym Nicolaus de Lira. I anſwere, that Nicolaus de Lira delirat. For it is What faith …th.impoſſible to hauehave a fayth to be ſaued by except a man conſent vntounto Gods law with all his hart and all his ſoule, that it is righteous, holy, good, and to be kept of all men, and thereuppon repent that he hath broken it, and ſorow that his fleſh moueth vntounto the contrary, and then come and beleue that god for his mercy will forgeue him all that he hath done agaynſt the lawe, & wyll helpe hym to tame his fleſh, and ſuffer his weakenes in the meane ſeaſon, till Where true faith is, there is repentaūce and amēdment of ….he be waxed ſtronger: which fayth if they that periſhed in Noyes floud had had, they coulde not but hauehave mended their liuinges, and had not hardened their harts thorow vnbeliefe, and prouoked the wrath of God, and waxed worſe and worſe an hundred & twenty yeares which God gaue thē to repent, vntill God could no lōger ſuffer thē, but waſhed their filthines away with y^e floud (as he doth y^e Popes ſhamefull ☜abhominacions with like invndacions of water) & deſtroyed thē vtterly.

And whē he aſketh whether Abrahā beleued no more thē is writtē of him. I aſke him how he will proue that there Abraham.was no writing in Abrahams time, & that Abrahā wrot not. And againe, as for Abrahams perſon, he receaued his faith of God, which to cōfirme vntounto other, myracles were ſhewed dayly.

And when he fayneth forth, that The elder… did erre.they beleued onelyonly becauſe they knew their elders coulde not erre. How could they know that without myracles or wryting confirmed wyth myracles, more thē the Turke knoweth that hys elders ſo many hundred yeares in ſo great a multitude can not erre & teach falſe doctr…ne to damne the beleuers. And y^e contrary doth M. More ſee in all y^e Bible, how after all was receaued in The elders in y^e time of the Iewes did erre.ſcripture confirmed with myracles, & though miracles ceaſed not, but were ſhewed dayly, yet y^e elders erred & fell to idolatry, an hūdred for one y^t bode in the right way, and led the younger in to errour wyth them ſo ſore, that God to ſaue the younger, was faine to deſtroy the elders and to begin his teſtamēt a freſhe with the new generatiō.

He ſeeth alſo that y^e moſt part were alway Idolaters for all the ſcripture The Scribes, Phariſeis and Elders did erre.and true myracles therto, and beleued the falſe miracles of the deuill, becauſe his doctrine was more agreable vntounto their carnall vnderſtanding, then the doctrine of Gods ſpirit, as it now goeth wyth the Pope: did not y^• Scribes, Phariſeis, and Prieſtes which were the elders erre?

p. 304And when he aſketh, who taught the church to know the true ſcripture from falſe bookes. I anſwere, true miracles The ſcripture was aucthoriſed by true myracles.that confounded the falſe, gaue authoritie vntounto the true ſcripture. And therby hauehave we euer ſince iudged all other bookes and doctrine.

And by that we know that your legendes Falſe bookes ſet forth by the Papiſtes.be corrupt wyth lies. As Eraſmus hath improued many falſe bookes which ye hauehave fayned and put forth in the name of S. Hierom, Auguſtine, Ciprian, Eraſmus.Dioniſe and of other, partly wyth autenticke ſtories, and partly by y^e ſtile and latine and like euident tokens.

And when M. More …ayth (vntounto thē that beleue nought but y^e ſcripture) he will proue with y^e ſcripture, that we be bounde to beleue the church in thinges, wherefore they hauehave no ſcripture. Becauſe God hath promiſed in the ſcripture, that the holy ghoſt ſhall teach hys church all truth. Nay, that text wil not proue it. For the firſt Church taught nought but they cōfirmed it with myracles which coulde not be done but of God, till the ſcripture was autentickly receaued. And the Church folowing The true church teacheth nothing but that which the ſcripture proueth and mainteineth.teacheth nought that they will hauehave beleued as an article of the fayth, but that which the ſcripture proueth and mainteineth. As S. Auguſtine proteſteth of his workes that men ſhould compare them vntounto the ſcripture, & therby iudge them and caſt away whatſoeuer the ſcripture did not allow. And therfore they that will be beleued without ſcripture are falſe hypocrites and not Chriſtes church. For though I know that that meſſenger which Chriſt ſendeth can not lie, yet in a cō …any where many liers be, I can not know which is he without a token of ſcripture or of miracle.

And when he ſayth, the ſcripture it ſel…e maketh vsus not to beleue the ſcripture, but the church teacheth vsus to know the ſcripture: for a man might read it & not beleue it. And ſo I ſay, that a man might heare you preach and yet beleue The Pope hideth the ſcripture.you not alſo. And I ſay therto, that your church teacheth nor to know the Scripture, but hideth it in the Latine from the common people. And from The Papiſtes hide y^e ſcripture.them that vnderſtand latine they hid the true ſe…e wyth a thouſand ſal…e gloſes.

And I ſay moreouer that the ſcripture is the cauſe why men beleue the The ſcripture is the cauſe why men beleue y^• ſcripture.ſcripture as well as a preacher is the cauſe why men beleue hys preachyng. For as he that firſt tolde in England that the Rhodes was taken, was the cauſe why ſome beleued it, euen … might writing ſent from thoſe parties be the cauſe that ſome men which red it beleued it. M. More will ſay, that letter had his authoritie of the man that ſent it, and ſo hath the …cripture her authority of the church. Nay, the ſcripture hath her authoritie of him that ſent it, that is to wete of God, which thing the miracles did teſtifie, and not of the man that brought it. He will ſay, thou knoweſt y^e ſcripture by their ſhewing. I graunt at the begynnyng I doe.

Then will he ſay, why ſhould ye not beleue them, in all their other doctrine The Papiſtes docctrine is n… to be beleued wiihou… ſcripture.beſides the ſcripture & in al their expoſitions of y^• ſcripture, as well as ye beleue them, when they tell you that ſuch and ſuch bokes are the ſcripture. May they not ſhew you a falſe booke? yes, and therfore at the beginning I beleue all a like. EueryEvery lye that they tell out of their owne braines we beleue to be ſcripture, and ſo ſhould I beleue thē if they ſhewed me a …alſe booke, but whē I hauehave read the ſcripture and fynd no… their doctrine there nor depend thereof, I do not geue ſo great credence vntounto their other doctrine as vntounto y^e ſcripture. Why? For I finde mo wi…eſſes vntounto the ſcripture thē vntounto their other doctrine. I finde whole nacions and Why the … is not to be beleued w^t out ſcripture, & why he is not the true church.countryes that receaue the ſcripture & refuſe their other doctrine and their expoſitions in many places. And I finde the ſcripture otherwiſe expounded of them of olde tyme thē they which now will be the church expound it. Wherby their doctrine is the more ſuſpect. I finde mention made of the ſcripture in ſtories, that it was, when I can finde no mencion or likelihode that their doctrine was. I finde in all ages The doctrine of the Papiſtes hath bene … reſiſted by y^e ſcripture.that men hauehave reſiſted their doctrine with the ſcripture & hauehave ſuffred death by the hundred thouſandes in reſiſting their doctrine. I ſee their doctrine brought in and mainteined by a contrary way to that by which the ſcripture was brought in. I finde by the ſelfe ſame ſcripture, when I looke diligently thereon, that their other doctrine can not ſtand therewith.

I finde in the ſcripture that they What thinges … finde in ſcripture. Rom. ….which hauehave not Chriſtes ſpirite to follow the ſteppes of his liuing pertaine not vntounto Chriſt. Rom. viij. I finde in the ſcripture, that they which walke in their carnall birth after the maner of the children of Adam cānot vnderſtād the thinges of the ſpirit of God. 1. Cor. p. 3051. Cor. ….2. I finde in the ſcripture that they 1. Cor. 2.1 Cor 2which ſeeke glory cā not beleue Chriſt. Ioh. 5. I finde in y^e ſcripture that they Iohn. 5.John 5which ſubmit not thēſelues to do y^e wil of God, can not know what doctrine is of god and what not. Ioh. 7. I finde Iohn. 7.John 7in the ſcripture, Iere. 31. & Heb. 8. that all the children of God, which only are the true members of his church hauehave Heb. 8.Heb 8eueryevery one of them the law of god written in their hartes: ſo that if there were no law to compell, they would yet naturally out of their owne hartes keepe the law of God: yea and againſt violence compelling to the contrary. And I ſee that they which wil be the church (and to proue it hath not ſo great truſt in the ſcripture as in their ſophiſtrie & in the ſword which they hauehave ſet vp in all landes to keepe them with violence in the roome) are ſo farre of frō hauing the lawes of God written in their hartes, that they neither by Gods lawe The Papiſtes will neither by Gods lawe nor mans refraine frō their wicked liuyng.nor mans refraine from their opē outward wicked liuing. Looke in the Chronicles what bloude it hath cofle England to attempt to bring thē vnderunder the law, yea and ſee what buſines y^e Realme hath had, to keepe the Prelates within the Realme from taking the benefices with them and lying at Rome, and yet ſcarſely brought it to paſſe, for all that the Pope hath the ſtint of eueryevery Byſhoppricke and of eueryevery great Abbey therto as oft as any is voyde, yer a new be admitted to the roome. And I ſee thē bond vntounto their owne will, & both to do and to conſent vntounto other to do al that God hath forbiddē. I ſee thē of all people moſt vain glorious. I ſee them walke after their Iohn. 10.John 10fleſhly birth. I ſee them ſo farre of frō the Image of Chriſt, that not onelyonly they will not dye for their flocke after his enſample, but alſo, yer they would loſe one towne, or vilage, any polling or priuilege which they hauehave falſly gotten, bryngyng them ſelues into good paſtures with wiles & ſhuttyng theyr The Papiſtes will loſe nothing that belongeth to them.flocke without, they would caſt away an hundred thouſand of thē in one day and begger their Realmes, yea and interdite them and bring in ſtraunge nations, though it were the Turke, to cō quere them and ſlea them vp, ſo much as the innocent in the cradle. And I ſee that their other doctrine is for their vā tage onelyonly & that therewith they hauehave gotten all that they hauehave.

And I finde in the Scripture that y^e Iewes before the cōmyng of Chriſt, knew that thoſe bookes were the ſcripture by the Scribes and y^e Phariſeis. And yet as many as beleued their other doctrine and many expoſitions of Chriſt deliuered the Iewes out of errour.the ſcripture were deceaued, as ye ſee, and how Chriſt deliuered them out of errour. And I ſee agayne (which is no ſmall miracle) that the mercyfull care of God to keepe the Scripture to be a ☜teſtimonie vntounto his elect, is ſo great, that no men be more gelous ouer the bookes, to kepe them and ſhew them, and to alledge, that they be the Scripture of God and true, then they which when it is read in their eares hauehave no power to beleue it, as the Iewes and the Popiſh. And therfore becauſe they neither can beleue it falſe, neither conſent None hauehave more care of the ſcripture, then thoſe that beleue it not.that it is true as it ſoundeth playnly in their eares in that it is ſo contrary vntounto their fleſhly wiſedome, from which they can not depart, they ſeke a thouſand gloſes to turne it into an other ſenſe, to make it agree vntounto their beaſtlyneſſe, and where it will receaue no ſuch gloſes, theyr they thinke that no man vnderſtandeth it.

Then in the end of the Chapter M. More cōmeth vntounto his wiſe concluſion and proueth nothing ſaue ſheweth his ignoraunce, as in all thyng. He ſayth we beleue the doctrine of the Scripture without Scripture, as for an example, the Popes pardons, becauſe onelyonly that the Church ſo teacheth, though no Scripture confirmeth it. Why ſo? becauſe ſayth he the holy ghoſt by inſpiration, if I doe my endeuour and captiuate mine vnderſtandyng, teacheth me to beleue the Church concernyng Gods worde taught by the Churche and grauen in mens hartes with out Scripture, as well as he teacheth vsus to beleue wordes written in the Scripture. Marke where hee is now. Afore hee ſaith, the Scripture cauſeth vsus not to beleue the Scripture, for a man may M. More reaſoneth agaynſt himſelfe.read it & beleue it not. And much more the preacher maketh vsus not to beleue y^e preacher, for a man may heare him and beleue him not alſo. As we ſee the Apoſtles could not cauſe all men to beleue them. For though the Scripture be an outward inſtrument and the preacher alſo to moue mē to beleue, yet the chief and principall cauſe why a man beleueth or beleueth not is within. That is the ſpirite of God teacheth his children ☜to beleue and the deuill blyndeth his children and kepeth them in vnbeleffe and maketh them to conſent vntounto lyes & thinke good euill & euill good. As the Actes of the Apoſtles ſay in many Actes. 13.Acts 13places there beleued as many as were ordeyned vntounto euerlaſtyng lyfe. p. 306And Chriſt ſayth Iohn. viij. they that Iohn. 8.John 8be of God heare Gods word. And vntounto the wicked Iewes he ſaith ye cā not beleue becauſe ye be not of God. And in the ſame place ſayth he, ye be of your father the deuill and his will ye will do, and he bode not in the truth, & therfore will not ſuffer his children to conſent to the truth. And Iohn in y^e x. ſaith They that preach not Chriſt truty are murtherers.Chriſt, all that came before me, be theeues & murtherers, but my ſhepe heard not theyr voyces. That is, all that preach any ſaluatiō ſaue in Chriſt murther y^e ſoules. Howbeit Chriſtes ſhepe could not conſent to their lyes, as the reſt cā not but beleue lyes, ſo that there is euer a remanaunt kepte by grace. And of this I hauehave ſene diuers examples. I hauehave knowen as holy men as might be, as the world counteth holyneſſe, which at the houre of death had no truſt in God at all, but cryed caſt holy water, light the holy candell, and ſo forth, ſore lamentyng that they muſt dye. And I hauehave knowen other which were deſpiſed, as men that cared not The end of hipocrites.for their diuine ſeruice, which at death hauehave falſen ſo flat vppon the bloud of Chriſt as is poſſible and hauehave preached vntounto other mightyly as it had bene an Apoſtle of our Sauiour and comforted them with comfort of the lyfe to come & hauehave dyed ſo gladly, that they would hauehave receaued no worlds good, to bide ſtill in the fleſh. And thus is M. More Predeſtination.fallen vpō predeſtination and is compelled wiſh violence of Scripture to confeſſe that which he hateth and ſtudieth to make appeare falſe, to ſtabliſh freewill with all, not ſo much of ignoraunce I feare as for lucres ſake and to get honour, promotiō, dignitie and money by helpe of our mitred monſters. Take exāple of Balam the falſe Balam.Prophet which gaue counſell & ſought meanes, through like blynd couetouſneſſe, to make the truth and propheſie which God had ſhewed him falſe. He had the knowledge of y^e truth but with out louelove therto and therfore for vauntage became enemy vntounto the truth, but what came of hym?

But M. More pepereth his concluſiō leſt men ſhould feele the taſt, ſaying, if we endeuour our ſelues and captiue our vnderſtandyng to beleue. O how betleblynd is fleſhly reaſon? the will hath none operation at all in the workyng of fayth in my ſoule, no more then the child hath in the begettyng of hys father. For ſayth Paule it is the gift of God and not of vsus. My witte muſt cō clude good or bad yer my will can louelove or hate. My witte muſt ſhew me a true Wit muſt firſt ſhew a cauſe, and then will is ſturted to worke.cauſe or an apparent cauſe why, yer my will hauehave any workyng at all. And of that peperyng it well appeareth what the Popes fayth is: euen a blynd imagination of their naturall witte, wrought without the light of the ſpirite of God, agreing vntounto their voluptuous luſtes in which their beaſtly wil ſo deliteth that hee will not let their wittes attēde vntounto any other learning for vnquietyng hym ſelfe and ſtyrring from his pleaſure and delectation.

And thus we be as farre a ſunder as euer we were and his mighty argumentes proue not the value of a poding pricke. M. More feeleth in his hart More feeleth.by inſpiration and with his endeueryng him ſelf and captiuatyng his vnderſtandyng to beleue it, that there is a PurgatoryPurgatory as whot as hell. Wherein if a ſily ſoule were appointed by God, to lye a thouſand yeares, to purge him with all, the Pope for the value of a Popiſh doe trine concernyng Purgatorygroat ſhall commaunde him thence ful purged in the twinkelyng of an eye, & by as good reaſon if her were goyng thence, kepe him there ſtill. He feeleth by inſpiration and in captiuatyng hys wittes that the Pope can worke wonders with a Caiues ſkinne, that he can commaunde one to eate f…eſh though he be neuer ſo luſty, and that an other eate none on payne of dānatiō, though The pope, how he can both forgeue and receiue ſinne.he ſhould dye for lacke of it: and that he can forgeue ſinne and not the payne, & as much and as litle of the payne or all if he luſt, and yet can neither helpe hym to louelove the law or to beleue or to hate the fleſh, ſeyng he preacheth not. And ſuch thinges innumerable. M. More feleth true, and therfore beleueth that the Pope is the true Church.

And I cleane cōtrary fele that there Tyndall feeleth Purgatoryis no ſuch worldly and fleſhly imagined Purgatory. For I feele that the ſoules be purged onelyonly by the word of God & doctrine of Chriſt, as it is written Iohn. xv. ye be cleane through the Iohn. 15.John 15word, ſaith Chriſt to his Apoſtles. And I feele agayne that he which is cleane through the doctrine, needeth not but to waſhe his feete onelyonly, for his head & handes are cleane all ready Iohn. xiij. Iohn. 13.John 13that is, he muſt tame his fleſh & kepe it vnderunder for his ſoule is cleane all ready through the doctrine. I feele alſo that bodyly payne doth but purge the body Bodyly payne purgeth the body, and not y^e ſoule,onelyonly: in ſo much that the payne not onelyonly purgeth not the ſoule, but maketh it more foule, except that there be p. 307kynde learning by, to purge the ſoule: ſo that the more a mā beateth his ſōne, the worſe he is, except he teach him louingly & ſhew him kindneſſe beſides, partly to kepe hym from deſperation and partly that he fall not into hate of his father and of his commaundement thereto, and thinke that his father is a tyraunt and his law but tyranny.

M. More ſeleth with his good endeuour & inſpiration together, that a man M. More …o of an euil opinion.may hauehave the beſt fayth coupled with the worſt lyfe and with conſentyng to ſinne. And I feele that it is impoſſible to beleue truly except a mā repent, and that it is impoſſible to truſt in y^• mercy y^• is in Chriſt or to fele it, but y^• a man muſt immediatly louelove God & his commaundementes, and therfore diſagree & diſconſent vntounto the fleſhe, and be at bate therewith and fight agaynſt it. And I feele that eueryevery ſoule that loueth y^• law and hateth his fleſhe and beleueth in Chriſtes bloud, hath his ſinnes which he committed and payne which he deſerued in haryng the law and conſentyng vntounto his fleſh, forgeuen him, by that fayth. And I feele that the frailtie Faith in Ch… … purchaſeth forg… of ſinne.of the fleſh agaynſt whiche a beleuyng ſoule lighteth to ſubdue it, is alſo forgeuen and not rekened or imputed for ſinne all the tyme of our curyng: as a kynde father and mother reken not or impute the impoſūbilitie of their yoūg children to conſent vntounto their law, and as when the children be of age and conſent, thē they reken not nor impute the impoſſibilitie of the fleſh to folow it immediatly, but take al a worth and louelove them no leſſe, but rather more tenderly then their old and perfect children that do their commaundemētes, ſo long as they go to ſchole & learne ſuch thynges as their fathers & mothers ſet thē to.

And I beleue that eueryevery ſoule that repēteth, beleueth and loueth the law, is thorough that fayth a member of Chriſtes Churche and pure without ſpot or wrincle, as Paule affirmeth. Ephe. v. And it is an Article of my beleffe Ephe. 5.Eph 5that Chriſtes elect Church is holy and pure without ſinne and eueryevery mē ber There is no purgatory for hym that dyeth repent…unt & beleueth.of the ſame, thorow faith in Chriſt, and that they be in the full fauour of God. And I feele that the vncleaneſſe of the ſoule is but the conſent vntounto ſin and vntounto the fleſhe. And therefore I feele that eueryevery ſoule that beleueth and conſenteth vntounto the lawe, and here in this life hateth his fleſh and the luſtes therof, and doth his beſt to driue ſinne out of his fleſh, and for hate of the ſinne gladly departeth from his fleſh, when he is dead (and the luſtes of the fleſhe ſlaine with death) needeth not as it were bodely tormenting to be purged of that wherof he is quit already. And therfore if ought remaine, it is out to be taught and not to be beaten. And I feele that eueryevery ſoule that beareth fruit in Chriſt ſhalbe purged of the father to beare more fruit day by day, as it is written Ioh. xv. not in the Popes Iohn. 15.John 15Purgatory where no man feeleth it, but here in this life ſuch fruit as is vntounto his neighbours profite, ſo that he which hath his hope in Chriſt purgeth himſelfe here, as Chriſt is pure. 1. Ioh. 1. Iohn. ….3. and that euer yet the bloud of Ieſus onelyonly doth purge vsus of all our …s for the imperfectnes of our woorkes. And I feele that the forgeuenes of ſinnes is to remitte mercifully the payne that I hauehave deſerued. And I do beleue that the payne that I here ſuffer in my Payne of ſinne.fleſhe is to keepe the body vnderunder, and to ſerue my neighbour, and not to make ſatsfaction vntounto god for the ſore ſinſes.

And therfore when the Pope deſcribeth God after his couetous complexion, and when M. More feleth by inſpiration … popes ….and captiuating his wittes vntounto the Pope, that God forgeueth the euerlaſting payne and will yet puniſh Purgatory pr… to y^• Pope.me a thouſand yeares in the Popes purgatory, that leauen ſauoreth not in my mouth. I vnderſtand my fathers wordes as they ſound, and after the moſt mercifull maner and not after the Popes leauen and M. Mores captining his wittes, to beleue that eueryevery Poetes fable is a true ſtory. There is no father here that puniſheth his ſonne to purge hym, when he is purged already and hath vtterly forſaken ſinne and eu…l, and hath ſubmitted himſelfe vntounto his fathers doctrine. For to puniſhe a man that hath forſaken ſinne of his owne accorde, is not to purge him, but to ſatiſfie the luſt of a tyrant. Neyther ought it to be called Purgatory, but a Iayle oftormenting and a ſatiſfactory. Purgatory to a tormenting Iayle as y^• Pope maketh it.And when the Pope ſayth it is done to ſatiſfie the righteouſnes as a iudge. I ſay we that beleue hauehave no iudge of him, but a father, neither ſhal we come into iudgemēt as Chriſt hath promiſed vsus, but are receaued vnderunder grace, mercy, and forgeuenes. Shew the Pope a litle money, and God is ſo Money diſpatcheth Purgatorymercifull that there is no Purgatory. And why is not the fire out as well, if I offer for me the bloud of Chriſt? If p. 308Chriſt hath deſerued all for me, who gaue the Pope might to keepe part of his deſeruinges from me, and to buy & ſell Chriſtes merites, & to make marchaundiſe ouer vsus wyth fayned wordes. And thus as M. More feleth that y^• Pope is holy church, I feele that he is Antichriſt. And as my feeling can be The Pope is Antichriſt.no proofe to him, no more cā his wyth all his captiuating his wittes to beleue phantaſies be vntounto me, wherefore if he hauehave no other probation to proue that the Pope is holy church, then that his hart ſo agreeth vntounto hys learning, he ought of no right to cōpell with ſword vntounto his ſect. How be it there are euer two maner people that will cleaue vntounto God a fleſhly, and a ſpirituall. The ſpirituall which be of God ſhall heare Gods woorde and the children of the truth ſhall conſent vntounto the truth. And contrary, the fleſhly and children of The fleſhly children do naturally conſent vntounto lyes.falſhead and of the deuill, whoſe harts be full of lyes, ſhall naturally conſent vntounto lyes (as young children though they hauehave eate themſelues as good as dead with fruit, yet will not nor cā beleue him that telleth them that ſuch fruit is nought: but him that prayſeth them wyll they heare and eate themſelues ſtarcke dead, becauſe their harts be full of lyes, and they iudge all thinges as they appeare vntounto the eyes). And the fleſhly mynded, aſſoone as he beleueth of God as much as the deuill The fleſhly mynded can neuer conſent vntounto Gods law.doth, he hath inough, and goeth to and ſerueth God with bodely ſeruice as he before ſerued his Idoles, and after his owne imaginacion and not in the ſpirite, in louing his lawes and beleuing his promiſes or longing for them: no if he myght euer liue in the fleſhe, he would neuer deſire them. And God muſt do for him againe, not what he The fleſhly perſecute them of the ſpirite.hath promiſed, but what he luſteth. And his brother y^• ſerueth God in y^e ſpirit according to Gods word, hym will the carnall beaſt perſecute. So that he which will godly liue muſt ſuffer perſecution vntounto the worldes end, according vntounto the doctrine of Chriſt and of his Apoſtles, and according vntounto the enſamples that are gone before.

And finally, I hauehave better reaſons for my feeling that the Pope is Antichriſt then M. More hath for his endeuoring himſelfe and captiuing his wits The true church is not w^t out a ſigne of a miracle to proue that it is Gods church.that h… is the true Church. For the church that was the true meſſenger of God hath euer ſhewed a ſigne and a badge therof, eyther a preſent myracle or autentickeſcripture, in ſo much that Moſes when he was ſent, aſked how ſhall they beleue me, & God gaue him a ſigne, as euer before and ſince. Neither was there any other cauſe of the writing of the new & laſt & euerlaſting teſtamēt, then that when miracles ceaſed, we might hauehave wherwith to detende our ſelues againſt falſe doctrine and hereſies. Which we coulde not do, if we were bound to beleue that were no where written. And agayne, if the The popes life & doctrine is more wicked thē the Turkes & all y^e heathē that euer were.Pope coulde not erre in his doctrine, he coulde not ſinne of purpoſe and profeſſion, abhominably and opēly aboue the Turkes and all the heathen that euer were, and defend it ſo maliciouſly as he hath viij. hundred yeares long, and will not be reformed, and maketh them his Saintes and his defenders y^• ſinne as he doth. He perſecuteth as the carnall church euer did. Whē the ſcripture is away, he proueth his doctrine with the ſcripture, and aſſoone as the ſcripture commeth to light he runneth away vntounto his ſophiſtrie and vntounto his ſworde. We ſee alſo by ſtories how your confeſſion, penaunce & pardons are come vppe, and whence your purgatory is ſprong. And your falſhead in the ſacraments we ſee by opē ſcripture. And all your workes we rebuke with the ſcripture, and therwith proue that the falſe beleife that ye couple to them, may not ſtand with the true faith that is in our Sauiour Ieſus.

The ſecond chapter.

IN the end of y^e ſecōd chapter he bringeth in Euticus that fell out at a window Euticus.Act. 20. whō ſaith he, S. Paules merites did recouer. Ʋerely Paule durſt not ſay ſo, but that Chriſtes merites did it. Peter ſayth Act. 3. Ye men of Actes. 3.Acts 3Iſraell, why gaſe ye and ſtare vppon vsus, as though we by our power and godlines had made this man go. Nay the name of Ieſus and faith that is in All glory and honour is to be geuen to the name of Ieſu.him, hath geuen him ſtrength & made him ſounde: And euen here, it was the name of Ieſus thorow Paules fayth that did that miracle, and not Paules merits, though he were neuer ſo holy.

The third Chap.

IN the iij. chapter he ſayth that Bilneyes iudges (which he yet nameth not for feare of ſclaundering thē) were indifferent. Nay, they that take rewardes Iudges.be not indifferent. For rewardes and giftes blinde the eyes of the ſeeing and peruert the woordes of the righteous. Deut. 17. Now al they that be ſhoren take great rewardes to defende p. 309Deut. 17.Deut 17Pilgrimages, Purgatory, and praying vntounto Saintes: euen the third part I trow of all Chriſtendome. For Purgatory to the foundation of Abbeyes, Colledges. &c.all they hauehave, they hauehave receaued in the name of purgatory, and of Saintes, & on that foundation be all their biſhopprickes, Abbeyes, colledges and Cathedrall churches built. If they be indifferent Iudges, they muſt be made ſeruaunts, and do ſeruice, as their dutie is. And whē they hauehave done a quarters ſeruice, then geue them wages as right is, vntounto eueryevery mā that laboureth in Chriſtes harueſt a ſufficient liuyng, and no more, and that in the name of his labour, and not of Saintes, and ſo forth. And then they ſhall be more indifferent Iudges, when there cōmeth no vauntage to iudge more on one ſide then an other.

The fourth Chap.

IN the ende of the fourth he ſaith, the man tooke an othe ſecretly, and was diſmiſſed with ſecret penaunce. O ypocrites, why dare ye not do it openly.

The fift Chapter.

IN the fift the meſſenger aſketh hym whether he were preſent. And hee denyeth and ſayth euer, hee heard ſaye Alas Sir, why take you bribes to defende that you know not? why ſuffer you not them that were preſent, and to whom the matter perteineth, to lye for themſelues?

Then he ieſteth out the matter with M. More is a commō …eſter and a ſcoūer.Wilken and Simken, as he doth Hunne and eueryevery thing, becauſe men ſhoulde not conſider their falſhead earneſtly. Wherein behold his ſuttle cōueiaunce. He aſketh, What if Simken would hauehave ſworne that he ſaw men make thoſe printes. Whereunto M. More aunſwereth vnderunder the name of, quod he, that he would ſware, that beſides the loſſe of the wager, he had loſt his honeſty and hys ſoule thereto. Beholde this mans grauitie, how coulde you that do whē the caſe is poſſible. You ſhould hauehave put him to his proues, and bid him bring recorde.

Then ſayth he, the church receaueth ☞no mā conuict of hereſie vntounto mercy, but of mercy receaueth him to open ſhame. Of ſuch mercy, God geue them plenty that are ſo mercyfull.

Then he ſheweth how mercyful they were to receaue the man to penaūce that abode ſtill in periury and deadly ſinne. O ſhameleſſe hypocrites how can ye receaue into the congregation of Chriſt an open obſtinate ſinner that repētet… not, when ye are commaūded of Chriſt to caſt all ſuch out? And agayn, O Scribes The Papiſtes are cruell and vnmercyfull.and Phariſeis, by what example of Chriſt and of his doctrine can ye put a man that repenteth vntounto opē ſhame and to that thyng whereby euer after he is had in deriſion among his brethren of whom he ought to be loued & not mocked: Ye might enioyne honeſt thynges, to tame his fleſh, as prayer and faſting: and not that which ſhould be to him ſhame euer after and ſuch as ye your ſelues would not do.

The vij. Chapter.

IN the vij. chapter he maketh much Sweryng.to do about ſwearyng and that for a ſuttle purpoſe. Notwithſtandyng, the truth is, that no iudge ought to make a man ſweare agaynſt hys will for many inconuenients. If a man receaue an office he that putteth hym in the rowme ought to charge him to do it truly, and may and happly ought to take an oth of him. If a man offer him The oth of a witnes may be taken, but no mā may be cōpelled to ſweare & be a witnes.ſelfe to beare witneſſe, the iudge may & of ſome haply ought to take an othe of them: but to compell a man to beare witneſſe ought he not. And Moreouer if a iudge put a man to an othe that he ſhall aunſwere vntounto all that he ſhalbe demaūded of, he ought to refuſe. How beit if he hauehave ſworne, and thē the wicked iudge aſke him of thinges hurtfull vntounto his neighbour & agaynſt the louelove that is in Chriſt, then he muſt repent A godly leſſon.that he hath ſworne, but not ſinne agayne to fulfill his othe. For it is agaynſt Gods commaundement, that a man ſhould hurt his neighbour that hath not deſerued it.

The viij. Chapter.

VNtoUnto Church, prieſt, charity, grace, M. More is a lyer.confeſſion and penaūce is aunſwered him in the beginning of the booke. And when he ſayth Tyndall was confederate with Luther, that is not truth.

The ix. Chapter.

THē his ix. chapter is there nothing more fooliſh. For if he would hauehave any wiſe man to beleue that my tranſlation would deſtroy the Maſſe any otherwiſe then the Latine or Greeke text, he ſhould hauehave alledged the place and how.

The xi. Chapter.

IN the xj. chapter M. More wil not defēd the liuing of our ſpiritualtie, becauſe p. 310it is ſo open that he can not. And as litle ſhould he be able to defēd their lyes, if the light were abroad that men might ſee. And as he cā not deny them The Papiſtes are obſtinate & will not repent.abhominable, ſo can he not deny them obſtinate and indurat therein, for they hauehave bene oft rebuked with Gods word, but in vayne. And of ſuch y^e text is plaine that they can not vnderſtand the Scripture. And yet M. More will receaue rewardes to diſpute agaynſt the hereſies of ſome ſuch as be caſt out of Chriſtes Churches by ſuch holy Patriarkes, whoſe liuinges he him ſelfe can not prayſe. As holy Iudas, though Iudas.the Prelates of his Church that is the Phariſeis were neuer ſo abhominable yet becauſe Chriſtes doctrine was cō demned of them as of Gods Church that could not erre, and all that beleued on him excōmunicat, he was bold to ſay. Quid …ult…s mihi dare & ego tradā eū …obis? That is, what wil you geue me and I will deliuer him vntounto you?

The xii. Chapter.

IN the xij. he hath one cōcluſion, that Prayers of an euill Prieſt profite not.the prayers of an euill Prieſt profit not. Which though it be true, yet the cōtrary is beleued among a great many, in all quarters of England, ſo blynd be the people and wotte not what prayer meaneth. I hauehave heard mē of no ſmall A fond ſaying.reputation ſay yer this in great audience, that it maketh no matter whether the Prieſt were good or bad ſo he tooke money to pray as they ſeldome pray without, for he could not hurt the prayer were he neuer ſo noughty.

And whē he ſaith that the euill Prieſt hurteth vsus not ſo much with hys lyuyng as he profitetn vsus with miniſtryng the Sacramentes. O worldly wiſedome, if a man lead me thorough a ieoperdous place by day, hee can not hurt me ſo greatly as by night. The Turke ſeeth that murther, theft, extortion, oppreſſion, and adultery be ſinne. But when To miniſter Sacramēts with out ſignification is to be lead in darkeneſſe.he leadeth me by the darkeneſſe of Sacramentes without ſignification, I cā not but ketch harme and put my truſt and confidēce in that which is neither God nor his word. As for an example, what truſt put the people in anoylyng and how cry they for it, with no other knowledge then that the oyle ſaueth them, vntounto their damnation and denying of Chriſtes bloud?

And when he ſaith the Prieſt offereth or ſacrificeth Chriſtes body. I aūſwere, Sacrifice.Chriſt was offered once for all as it is to ſee in the Epiſtle to the Hebrues. Heb. 10.Heb 10As the Prieſt ſleath Chriſt, breaketh his body and ſhedeth his bloud, ſo he Chriſtes body in the Sacramēt is not carnall, but ſpirituall.ſacrificeth him and offereth him. Now the Prieſt ſleath him not actually nor breaketh his body actually nor ſhede…h his bloud actually neither ſcourgeth him and ſo foorth, throughout all hys paſſion: but repreſenteth his ſ…aying, his body breakyng and bloud ſhedyng for my ſinnes and all the reſt of his paſſion & playeth it before mine eyes onelyonly. Which ſignification of the Maſſe, becauſe the people vnderſtand not, therfore they receaue no forgeueneſſe of their ſinnes therby, and therto can not but ketch hurt in their ſoules, through a falſe fayth as it well appeareth, how eueryevery man commeth therto for a ſundry imagination, all ignoraunt of the true way.

Let no man beguile you with hys iugglyng ſophiſtrie. Our offeryng of Chriſt is to beleue in him, and to come with a repentyng hart vntounto the remē braunce of his paſſion & to deſire God the father for the breakyng of Chriſtes Chriſte was ſacrificed on the croſſe once for all.body on the croſſe and ſhedyng of hys bloud and for his death and all his paſſions, to be mercyful vntounto vsus & to forgeue vsus accordyng vntounto his Teſtamēt and promiſe. And ſo we receaue forgeueneſſe of our ſinnes. And other offeryng or ſacrificyng of Chriſt is there now none. Walke in the opē light and feelyng and let not your ſelues be lead with iugglyng wordes as Mules and Aſi…s in whiche there is none vnderſtandyng.

M. Deacons were had in price in the old tyme. Tyndall. For the Deacons More. Deacons. Tyndall.then tooke the care of all the poore and ſuffered none to go a beggyng, but prouided a liuyng for eueryevery one of them. Chriſtes Dea…s and the p… …e… Deacons differ much.Where now they that ſhould bee Deacons make them ſelues Prieſtes and robbe the poore of landes, rentes, offeringes and all that was geuen them, deuouring all them ſelues & the poore dying for hunger.

M. Prieſtes be deſpiſed becauſe of the More. Prieſtes. Tyndall.multitude. Tyndall. If there were but one in the world as men ſay of the Fenix, yet if he lyued abhominably, he could not but be deſpiſed.

M. A man may hauehave a good fayth coupled More. Tyndall.with all maner ſinne. Tyndall. A good faith putteth away all ſinne, how then can all maner of ſinne dwell with a good fayth? I dare ſay, that M. More durſt affirme, that a man might louelove God and hate his neighbour both at once, and yet S. Iohn in his Epiſtle p. 3111. Iohn. 4.1 John 4will ſay that he ſayth vntruly. But M. M. Mores fayth was a common fayth.More meaneth of the beſt fayth that euer he felt. By all likelyhode he knoweth of no other but ſuch as may ſtand with all wickedneſſe, neither in hym ſelfe nor in his Prelates. Wherfore in as much as their faith may ſtand with all that Chriſt hateth, I am ſure he looketh but for ſmall thankes of God for his defendyng of them. And therfore he playeth ſurely to take his reward here of our holy Patriarkes.

M. Fewe durſt be Prieſtes in the olde tyme. Tyndall. Then they knewe the More. Tyndall.charge and feared God. But now they know the vauntage & dread him not.

M. If the lawes of the Churche were executed which Tyndal and Luther wold More. Tyndall.hauehave burnt, it would be better. Tyndall. If the teſtamēt of our Sauiour might be knowen for blynd wretches & couetous tyraūtes, it would write y^e law of God in all mens harts that beleued it, and then ſhould men naturally & with out compulſion kepe all honeſtie. And agayne though the Popes law could As good no lawe, as a law not executed.helpe, yet is no law as good as a law vnexecuted.

The xiij. Chapter.

IN the xiij. he rageth and fareth excedyng foule with him ſelfe. There he biteth, ſucketh, gnaweth, towſeth, and mowſeth Tyndall. There he weneth that he hath wonne his ſpurres & that it is not poſſible to aunſwere him. And yet there, becauſe he there moſt ſtādeth in his owne conceite, I doubt not vntounto them that be learned in Chriſte to proue hym moſt ignoraunt of all, and cleane without vnderſtanding of godly thynges.

And I ſay yet, that as no woman ought to rule a mans office…, where a Age is to be preferred before …outh.man is preſent, by the order of nature, and as a young man ought not to be choſen, to miniſter in y^e Church, where an old mete for the rowme may be had by the order of nature, euen ſo it was Paules meaning to preferre the maried before the vnmaried, for the inconueniences that might chaunce by the reaſon of vnchaſtitie, which inconueniences M. More might ſee with ſorrow The chaſt vnchaſtirie of the Papiſtes is abhominable both to God and man.of hart (if he had as great louelove to Chriſt as to other thinges) to happen dayly vntounto the ſhame of Chriſtes doctrine, among Prieſtes, Fryers and Monkes, partly with open whores, partly with their ſodometrie, whereof they caſt ech other in the teeth dayly in eueryevery Abbey, for the leaſt diſpleaſure that one doth to an other. M. More might ſee what occaſions of vnchaſ…itie be geuen vntounto the Curates eueryevery where by the reaſon of their office and dayly conuerſation with the maryed.

And when he ſayth, neuer mā could finde that expoſition till now, there he ſayth vntrue. For S. Hierome hymſelfe S. Hierome.ſaith that he knew them that ſo expo… ded the text, and rebuked them of Rome becauſe they would not admit into the clergie them that had had two wiues, the one before baptim and the other after, ſaying: if a man had killed xx. men before his Baptime, they would not hauehave forbidden him, and why then ſhould that which is no ſinne at all be The Pope iudgeth no ſinne to bee ſinne, and ſinne to be no ſinne.a let vntounto him. But the God of Rome would not heare him. For Sathan beganne then to worke his miſteries of wickednes.

And when he ſaith, he that hath ten wiues hath one wife. I ſay that one is taken by the vſe of ſpeaking for one onelyonly. As when I ſay, I am content to geue thee one, meaning one onelyonly. And vntounto him that hath no helpe, is there one helpe, to looke for no helpe where one helpe is taken for one onelyonly, and many places els.

And when M. More ſayth, he that hath had two wiues one after an nother, may not be Prieſt, and that if a Prieſtes wife die he may not hauehave another, or that if he were made Prieſt hauing no wife, he might not after mary if he burnt. I deſire a reaſon of him: If he ſay, it hath A Prieſt by the Popes order may hauehave a whore but not a wife.bene ſo the vſe: then ſay I an whore is better then a wife, for that hath bene y^e vſe of our holy father many hundred yeares. But I affirme vntounto M. More the contrary. And I ſay firſt wyth Paule, that the kingdome of God is Rom. 14.Rom 14not meate and drinke, and by the ſame reaſon neither huſband or wife, but y^t keeping of the commaundements and to louelove eueryevery man his neighbour as himſelfe. And therefore as meate and drinke were ordeined for mans neceſſitie, and as a man may care & drinke at all needes in all degrees, ſo farre as it letteth him not to keepe the commaundementes and to louelove his neighbour as himſelfe: euen ſo was the wife created for the mans neceſſitie, and therefore may a man vſe her at all hys neede in all degrees, as farre as ſhe letteth hym not to keepe Gods lawe, which is nothing els by Paules learning, then that a man louelove hys neyghbour as himſelfe. Now I deſire a reaſon of M. Mores doctrine, what doth p. 312my ſecond wife, or my third hinder me Mores doctrine is ſuperſtitiousto louelove my neighbour as my ſelfe, and to do him ſeruice againſt I come to be prieſt? What let is your ſecond wife to you to ſerue our holy father the Pope, more then your firſt would hauehave bene? And in like maner if my firſt wife die, when I am a Prieſt, why may I not louelove my neighbour & do hym as good ſeruice with the ſecond as with y^e firſt? And againe, if I be made prieſt hauing no wife, and after burne, and therfore mary, why may I not louelove my neighbour and ſerue hym wyth that wyfe, as well as he that brought a wife with hym?

It was not for nought that Paule 1. Tim. 4.1 Tim 4propheſied that ſome ſhould departe from the faith, & attend vntounto diſceaueable ſpirites and deueliſhe doctrine, The Pope forbiddeth mariage.forbidding to mary and to eate meates which god hath created to be receaued with thankes of them that know the truth, to buy diſpēſations, to vſe lawfull meat and vnlawfull wiues.

And I aſke M. More why he y^t hath Apparant godlyneſſe why the Prieſt may not hauehave y^• ſecōd wife.the ſecond wife or hath had two wiues may not be a Prieſt, or why if a Prieſtes firſt wife die, he may not mary the ſecond. He will aunſwere becauſe the Prieſt muſt repreſent the miſteries or ſecrete properties and vnion of Chriſt the onelyonly huſbande of his onelyonly wyfe the church or congregation that beleueth in him onelyonly. That is, as I hauehave Chriſtes benefites toward vsus are figured by matrimony.in other places ſayd, the ſcripture deſcribeth vsus in matrimonye the myſteries and ſecrete benefites which God the father hath hid in Chriſt for all thē that be choſen and ordeyned to beleue and put their truſt in him to be ſaued. As when a man taketh a wife, he geueth her himſelfe, his honour, hys riches, and all that he hath, and maketh her of equall degree vntounto himſelfe: if he be king, and ſhe before a beggers daughter, yet ſhe is not y^e leſſe Quene, and in honour aboue al other. If he be Emperour ſhe is Empreſſe, and honoured of men as the Emperour, and partaker of all. Euen ſo if a man repēt and come, and beleue in Chriſt to be ſaued from the dampnation of the ſinne, of which he repenteth, Chriſt is hys owue good immediately: Chriſtes death, paine, prayer, paſſion, faſtyng, and all his merites are for that mans ſinnes a full ſatiſfaction, and a ſacrifice of might and power to abſolue hym … pena et a culp. …. Chriſtes enheritaunce, his louelove and fauour that he hath wyth God his father are that mans by and by: and the man by that mariage is pure as Chriſt, and cleane wythout ſinne, and honourable, glorious, weibeloued and in fauour thorow y^t grace of that mariage. And becauſe that the Prieſt muſt repreſent vsus this ſignification, is the cauſe why a Prieſt may not hauehave the ſecond wyfe ſay they, which popiſhe reaſon hath deceaued many wiſe, as who can be but deceaued in ſome thing, if he receaue all his doctrine by the auctoritie of his elders, except he hauehave an occaſion as we hauehave to runne to Moſes and the Prophetes, & there heare & ſee with our owne eyes, and beleue no longer by the reaſon of oure forefathers, when we ſee them ſo ſhamefully beguild themſelues, and to beguile vsus in a thouſand things which the Turkes ſee.

Now to our purpoſe, if this doctrine be true, then muſt eueryevery Prieſt hauehave a wife or hauehave had a wife. For he that neuer had wife can not repreſent vsus this. And againe, he that hath an whore or an other mans wife hath loſt this property, and therfore ought to be put downe.

And againe, the ſecond mariage thē of no man is, or can be a Sacramēt by that doctrine. And yet I will deſcribe you the mariage of Chriſt as well by his mariage that hath had ix. wyues, and hath now the tenth, as by his that hath now the firſt.

O will they ſay, his wyfe was no We were Idolaters when we came to Chriſt.virgine, or he when they were maried. Sir the ſignification ſtandeth not in y^t virginitie but in the actuall wedlocke. We were no virgines when we came to Chriſt but cōmon whores beleuing in a thouſand Idoles.

And in the ſecond mariage or tenth and ye will, the man hath but one wife and all his are hers, and his other wiues be in a land where is no huſbande or wife. I ſay therfore with Paul that this is a deuiliſhe doctrine and hath a ſimilitude of godlines with it, but the power is away. The myſte of it blyndeth the eyes of the ſimple and beguileth them, that they can not ſee a thouſand abhominations wrought vnderunder that cloke.

And therfore I ſay ſtill, that the Apoſtles meaning was that he ſhoulde S. Paules doctrine is that prieſts ſhuld hauehave wiues.hauehave a wi…e, if haply his age were not the greater, and that by one wi…e he excludeth them that had two, and them that were defamed with other ſaue their owne wiues, and woulde hauehave thē to be ſuch as were knowen of vertuous p. 313liuing, for to do reuerence & honour vntounto the doctrine of Chriſt. As it appeareth by the widowes which he excludeth before lx. yeares, for feare of Widowes.vnchaſtitie, and admitteth yet none of that age, except ſhe were well knowen of chaſt, honeſt and godly behauiour, and that to honour Gods word withall, than which the Pope hath nothing more vile. And whē M. More to mock, bringeth forth the text of the wydowe, that ſhe muſt be the wife of one man. I anſwere, for all his ieſting, that Paule excludeth not her that had x. huſbands one after an other, but her that had ij. huſbandes attonce. And when More laugheth at it, as though it had neuer More is a ſco…fer.bene the guiſe. I would to god for his mercy that it were not the guiſe at this day, and then I am ſure hys wrath would not be ſo great as it is. Paule meaneth onelyonly that he would hauehave no diffamed woman choſen wydowe for diſhonouring the worde of God and the congregation of Chriſt, and therefore excludeth common women, and ſuch as were diffamed beſides their huſbandes, and haply y^t deuorced therto. And that I proue by the ſame doctrine of Paule, that the kingdome of God is no ſuch buſines but the keping of Gods commaundementes onelyonly, & to louelove one an other. Now looke on y^t thing and on the office of the widowe. It was but to waite on the ſicke and poore people, and to waſhe ſtraūgers feete. Now the widowes of ten huſbandes muſt hauehave be founde of the coſt of the congregation, if they were deſticute of frends, as all other poore were, though in tyme paſſed they hauehave bene diffamed perſons.

But vnderunder lx. would Paule let none miniſter for feare of occaſions of vnchaſtity, and therto none but ſuch as were well knowen of honeſt liuing and of good report. Now in as much as the widow of ten huſbands muſt be foūde of the common coſt at her neede, what vncleanes is in her by the reaſon of her ſecōd huſband, that ſhe is not good inough to be a ſeruaunt vntounto the poore people, to dreſſe their meate, waſhtheir clothes, to make their beddes and ſo The office of the w…ddowes in y^e primatine church.forth and to waſh ſtraūgers feete, that came out of one congregation vntounto an other about buſineſſe▪ and to do all maner ſeruice of louelove vntounto her poore brethren and ſiſters. To hauehave had the ſecond huſband is no ſhame among the heathen: it is no ſhame amōg the Chriſten for when the huſband is dead, the wife is free to mary to whom ſhe will in the Lord, and by as good reaſon the huſband, and of right who more free then the Prieſt? And therfore they ſhame not our doctrine nor our cōgregation, nor diſhonour God amōg the heathen or weake Chriſten. Now whē we hauehave a playne rule that he whiche Rom. 13▪Rom 13loueth his neighbour as him ſelfe kepeth all the lawes of God, let hym tell me for what cauſe of louelove toward hys neighbour, a widow of two lawfull huſbands may not do ſeruice vntounto the poore people.

Why may not a widow of fifty do ſeruice vntounto the poore? Paule whiche knytteth no ſnares nor leadeth vsus blind nor teacheth vsus without a reaſon geuing of his doctrine, aunſwereth, for feare of occaſions of euill, leſt ſhe be tempted or tempt other: And then if ſhe be taken in miſdoyng, the doctrine of Chriſt be euill ſpoken of therto and the weake offended.

And when M. More mocketh with my reaſon that I would hauehave euerye Prieſt to hauehave a wife becauſe few men cā liue chaſte, I aunſwere, that if he loued the honor of Chriſt and his neighbour as he doth his owne couetouſneſſe, he ſhould finde that a good Argument. Paul maketh the ſame and much more ſclenderly then I after your ſophiſtrie. For hee diſputeth thus, ſome yoūg widowes Young widowes were forbiddē to miniſter in the commō ſeruice.do diſhoneſt y^e congregation of Chriſt and his doctrine, therfore ſhall no young widow at all miniſter in the common ſeruice therof: But ſhal all be maried & beare children and ſerue their huſbādes. And it is a farre leſſe rebuke to the doctrine of Chriſt and his cōgregation, that a womā ſhould do amiſſe, then the Biſhop or Prieſt. I am not ſo mad, to thinke y^t there could no Prieſt at all line chaſte. Neither am I ſo fooliſh to thinke that there be not as many womē that could liue chaſt at fifty, as Prieſtes as xxiiij. And yet though of a thouſand widowes of fifty yeare old ix. hundred xc. & ix. could liue chaſt, Paul becauſe he knoweth not that one wil let none at all miniſter in the common ſeruice amōg occaſions of vnchaſtitie. Chriſtes Apoſtles conſidered all infirmities and all that might hynder the doctrine of Chriſt, and therfore dyd their beſt to preuēt all occaſiōs. Wherfore, Fiſhe no better then fleſhe, nor fleſhe no better then fiſhe in the kingdame of Chriſt.as fiſh is no better then fleſh, nor fleſh better then fiſh in the kyngdome of Chriſt, euen ſo virginitie wedlocke and widowed are none better then other to be ſaued by in their own nature p. 314or to pleaſe God with all, but with what ſoeuer I may beſt ſerue my brethren, that is euer beſt accordyng vntounto the tyme and faſhion of the world. In perſecution it is good for eueryevery man to liue chaſt if he can, and namely for the preacher. In peace when a man may liue quietly and abyde in one place, a wiſe is a ſure thyng to cut of occaſiōs.

Then he would make it ſeme that Prieſtes wiues were the occaſions of hereſies …. ☞ Tyndall.in Almany. Nay, they fell firſt to hereſies and then tooke wiues, as ye ſell firſt to the Popes holy doctrine & then tooke whores.

More. The Church byndeth no man More. Tyndall.to chaſtitie. Tyndall. of a truth, for it geueth licence to who ſoeuer wil, to kepe whores, and permitteth to abuſe mens wiues and ſuffereth ſodomitrie, and doth but onelyonly forbid matrimonie.

And when he ſayth, chaſtitie was all moſt receaued by generall cuſtome, before Three lyes at …ce.the lawe was made: one lye. And good fathers dyd but geue theyr aduiſe therto: an other lye. And it was ratified and receaued with the cōſent of all Chriſtendome: the third lye.

They did well to choſe a Poete to be their defender. Firſt it was attempted in generall Coūcell and reſiſted by holy fathers which yet thēſelues were neuer maried, ſaying that men might not knit a …ate for their weake brethrē, agaynſt the doctrine of Chriſt and hys Apoſtles. Neither could it bee brought to paſſe, vntill the Pope had got the Emperours ſword out of hys hād. The Grekes which were the one halfe of Chriſtendome then I ſuppoſe, would neuer admit it.

Now godly louelove would neuer ſuffer them to cōſent that we ſhould be boūd vntounto that burthen which they themſelues could not beare as M. More in an other place affirmeth that they dyd. And agayne, we hauehave manifeſt ſtoryes that it was brought in with violence ot ſword & that all the Prieſtes of Germany ….were cōpelled to put away their wiues. And we finde that wherſoeuer the pope raigneth, he came in with deceauyng the kyng of the countrey and then with his ſword cō …elled the reſt. The Pope came but now late into Wales to raigne there ouer the Byſhops and Prieſtes, and that with the ſword of the kyng of England.

And yet though all the Clergie of chriſtendome had graunted it, all the Church had not made it, nor yet the tenth part of the Church. The lay people be as well of the Churche as the Prieſtes. Neither can all the Prieſtes in the world of right make any law wherin their part lyeth without their conſent. Now it perteineth vntounto the cōmon people and moſt of all vntounto the Prieſtes muſt be endued wyth vertue and honeſty.weakeſt, that their Prieſtes be endued with all vertue and honeſtie. And the chaſtitie of his wife, daughter and ſeruaunt perteineth vntounto eueryevery particular man, which we ſee by experience defiled dayly, by the vnchaſt chaſtitie of the ſpiritualitie.

Wherfore if the Pariſhes, or any one Pariſh, after they had ſene the experience what incōueniences came of their chaſtitie, would hauehave no Curate except he had a wife to cut of occaſions, as Paule when he had ſene that proofe, would hauehave no young widowes miniſter, who ſaue a tyraunt, ſhould be agaynſt them?

Moreouer the generall Councels of the ſpiritualtie are of no other maner, Generall counſell.ſence the Pope was a God, then the generall Parlamentes of the temporalitie. Where no man dare ſay hys mynde frely and liberally for …eare of ſome one, and of his flatterers.

And looke in what captiuitie the Parlamentes be vnderunder the priuate coū ſels Parl… ment.of kinges, ſo are the generall Coū cels vnderunder the Pope and his Cardinals. And this is the maner of both. Some one two or three wilye Foxes, that hauehave all other in ſubiection, as ye The … vſed both in generall to▪ …es, and alſo … parliamentes.hauehave ſene in my Lord Cardinall, imagine, not what ought to be, but what they luſt to hauehave and conceaue in theyr own braynes and go with child, ſome tyme a yeare. ij. iij. iiij. v. vi. or. vij. and ſome tyme. xx. and aboue, caſtyng, can…eſing and compaſſing for the byrth agaynſt oportunitie: openyng the matter priuely vnderunder an othe a litle and a litle vntounto certaine Secretaries whoſe part is therin, as they finde men of actiuitie and of courage, prepared to ſell ſoule and body for promotion.

And the matter in the meane tyme is turmoyled and toſſed among themſelues: and perſuaſions and ſutle reaſons are forged to blind the right way and to beguile mens wittes. And whō they feare to hauehave aduerſaries able to reſiſt them, for ſuch, meanes are ſought to bring them in vntounto their partie or to conuey them out of the way. And whē oportunitie is come, they call a counſel or Parlamēt vnderunder a contrary pretēce. And a Maſſe of the holy ghoſt, whom they deſire as farre away as were poſſible, p. 315is ſong and a goodly Sermon is made, to blere mens eyes with all. And then ſodenly other mē vnprouided, the matter is opened, after the moſt ſuttle maner. And many are beguiled with ſuttle argumentes and craftie perſuaſions. And they that hold hard agaynſt A practiſe vſed in all counſayles and Parlamentes.thē are called aſide and reaſoned with a part and handled after a faſhion, and partly entiſed with fayre promiſes and partly feared with cruell threatnyngs, and ſo ſome are ouercome with ſiluer ſyllogiſmes & other for feare of threatnyng are driuen vntounto ſilence, And if any be found at the laſt, that will not obey their falſehead and tyranny, they rayle on him and ieſt him out of coūtenaunce & call him opinatiue, ſelfe mynded and obſtinate, & beare him in hand that the deuill is in him that he ſo cleaueth vntounto his owne witte, though he ſpeake no ſilllable but Gods word, & is aſked whether he wilbe wiſer then other mē. And in the ſpiritualitie, they excommunicate him and make an hereticke The ſpiritualtie make heretickes of them that reſiſt theyr power and will.of him. And this to be true in the Clergies chaſtitie is as cleare as y^e day by manifeſt chronicles, in ſo much that the Prelates of Rome, were a brewyng it aboue an hundred yeares and I wot not how long lenger, yer they could bryng it to paſſe, and yet in vayne til they had got the Emperours ſword to proue that it was moſt expedient ſo to be. And for what entent? to Why Prieſtes may hauehave no wyues.bryng all vnderunder the Pope, and that the Prelates of all landes might as the old maner was, come and wayte on the Pope at Rome, where he prepared thē whores inough.

And that his ſworne Prelates in eueryevery land, might the more conueniently wayte in Kyngs Courtes, to miniſter the commō wealth vntounto the popes pleaſure and profite. For had the Clergie kept their wiues, they could neuer hauehave come vntounto this where they now be, and to theſe pluralities, vniōs and totquottes. For there is no lay man though he were neuer ſo euill diſpoſed, that could for his wife & children hauehave leyſure to cōtr…e ſuch miſchiefe, and to runne from countrey to countrey, to learne falſhead and ſubtiltie, as our ſpiritualtie do, which without feare of The chaſtitie of the …ergy pert…neth to the tempo…ie, as much as to the ſpiritualtie.God and ſhame of man, keepe whores wherſoeuer they come. And thus ye ſee, that the clergies chaſtitie, pertayneth as much vntounto the temporaltie as vntounto the ſpiritualtie.

And an other is this, no power among them that profeſſe the truth may bynde where God lowſeth, ſaue onelyonly where louelove and my neighbours neceſſitie requireth it of me. Neyther can any power now binde them to come, but they may freely keepe or breake, as the thing is hurtfull or expediēt. Neither can there be any bond where louelove and neceſſitie requireth the contrary. So that this law, louelove thy neighbour, to helpe him as thou wouldeſt be holp, muſt interpret all mans lawes.

As if I had ſworne young or vnwiſely that I would liue chaſt & all the world had bound me, if afterwarde I burnt and could not ouercome the paſſion, I ought to mary.

For I muſt condition my vow and Vowes.ſhew a cauſe of it thereto. I may not vow for the chaſtitie it ſelfe, as though it were ſacrifice to pleaſe God in it ſelf, for that is the Idolatry of heathen. I muſt therfore vowe to do my neyghbour ſeruice (which in that caſe he may not require) or to geue my ſelfe more quietly to prayer and ſtudie (which is not poſſible as long as I burne, and the minde will not be quiet) or that I may the better keepe y^e lawes of God, which if I burne, I ſtand thorow my chaſtitie in more ieopardy to breake & No oth is to be kept that is agaynſt charitie or neceſſitie.to hurt my neighbour, and to ſhame y^t doctrine of Chriſt. And in like maner, if I had forſworne fleſh, & al the world had bound me, yet if neceſſitie require it of me, to ſaue my life or my health, I ought to breake it. And againe though I had ſworne chaſtitie, and the cōmon wealth or the neceſſitie of an other required the contrary, I muſt breake it. But on the one ſide, of all that euer burnt in the Popes chaſtitie, he neuer gaue prieſt licence to take wife, but to keepe whores onelyonly. And on the other ſide, all that vow any vow, do it for the thing it ſelfe, as though it were as I ſayd ſeruice or ſacrifice to God that had delite in the deede, as young children hauehave in Apples, and that for that deede they ſhall hauehave an higher roome in heauē then their neighbours, which is the Idolatry of the heathen, whē he ought to beſtow his vow vppon hys neighbour to bryng him to heauen, & not to enuie him, & to ſeeke thereby an higher roome, not caring whether his neighbour come thether or no. And finally to burne and not to vſe the naturall remedy that God hath made, is but to tempt God, as in all other thinges. But & if God hauehave brought thee into a ſtraite, and hauehave therto takē the naturall remedy from thee, then to reſiſte p. 316and to crie vntounto God for helpe, & to ſuffer, is a ſigne y^t thou loueſt Gods lawes. And to louelove Gods law is to be ſure that thou art Gods childe elect to mercy. For in all his children onelyonly, he writeth that token.

And then he ſayth, eueryevery man hath his choyce whether he will be Prieſt or no. But what nettes and ſnares doth The popes ſnares.Antichriſt lay for them?

Firſt his falſe doctrine, where with the Elders beguiled, cōpell their children ….and ſacrifice them, to burne in the Popes chaſtitie with no other mynde, then thoſe olde Idolaters ſacrificed their children vntounto the falſe God Moloch: ſo that they thinke, by the merites of their childrens burning, after the Popes falſe doctrine, to pleaſe god and to get heauen, cleane ignoraunt of the teſtament made in Chriſtes bloud.

Then what a multitude are blinded 2.and drawen into the net, with the baite of promotion, honour, dignitie, pleaſures, freedome and libertie to ſinne, & to do all miſchiefe vnpuniſhed, things which all euill that feare not God do deſire?

And what a number brought vp idely vntounto xx. and aboue, then put their 3.heades in his halter, becauſe they hauehave no other craſt to get their liuinges, & not becauſe they can liue chaſt.

Alſo ſome liue chaſt at xxiiij. which ſame burne at xxx. And that to be true 4.dayly experience teacheth, and good naturall cauſes there be.

And thē looke on the Apoſtles learning 5.and ordinaunce. When one or two young wydowes had brokē their chaſtitie, he would neuer after let any moe bee choſen of the ſame age. How commeth it then that the Pope for ſo many hundred thouſandes that miſcary, will neither breake the ordinaunce or mitigat it, or let any goe backe, but if any burne, ſendeth them vntounto the ſhame of Chriſtes doctrine, and offending and hurt of hys Church, & neuer vntounto the lawfull remedie of mariage.

And when M. More calleth it hereſie, Tyndall doth here playnly proue More an hereticke.to thinke that the maried were as pleaſaunt to God as the vnmaryed, he is ſurely an hereticke that thinketh the cōtrary. Chriſtes kingdom is neither meate nor drinke, nor huſband nor wife, nor widow nor virgine, but the keepyng of the commaundementes and ſeruing of a mans neighbour louingly by the doctrine of S. Paul, where not to eate helpeth me to keepe the commmaūdementes better then to eate, there it is better not to eate then to eate. And where to eate helpeth me to keepe the That is euer beſt, that moueth man to the kepyng of Gods commaundementes.commaundementes and to do my dutie vntounto my neighbour, there it is better to eate then not to eate. And in like caſe where to be without a wife helpeth more to keepe the cōmaundemētes and to ſerue a mans neighboure, there it is better to be vnmaryed then maried, and where a wife helpeth to keepe the commaundementes better then to be without, there it is better to hauehave a wife then to be wythout. That hart onelyonly which is ready to do or let vndone ☜all thinges for his neighbours ſake, is a pleaſaunt thing in the ſight of God.

And when he will hauehave the Prieſtes to liue chaſt, for reuerence of the Sacramentes, Deuiliſh doctrine.it is deuilliſhe doctrine hauing the ſimilitude of godlines, but the pith & marow is away. If he meane water, oyle, ſalt, and ſuch like, then is y^• wyfe with her body and all her vſes in the lawes of God, incomparable purer & holyer. If he meane the ſacrament of Chriſtes body, I aunſwere, that the handes defile not the man, nor ought that goeth thorow the handes be they neuer ſo vnwaſhed, by the teſtimony of Chriſt, and much leſſe can they then Math. 15.Matt 15defile Chriſt.

Moreouer, the Prieſt toucheth not Chriſtes natural body is not in the Sacrament.Chriſtes naturall body wyth his handes by your owne doctrine, nor ſeeth it with his eyes, nor breaketh it wyth hys fingers, nor eateth it wyth hys mouth, nor chāmeth it with his teeth, nor drinketh his bloud with his lippes for Chriſt is impaſſible. But he that repenteth toward the lawe of God, and The Sacrament of the body … bloud of Chriſt how it muſt be receiued.at the ſight of the ſacrament, or of the breaking, feling, eating, chamming or drinking, calleth to remembraunce the death of Chriſt, his body breaking and bloud ſhedding for our ſinnes, and all his paſſion, the ſame eateth our Sauiours body and drinketh his bloud thorow fayth onelyonly, & receaueth forgeuenes of all his ſinnes therby, and other not. And all that hauehave not this doctrine of the Sacrament come therto in vaine. And therfore there is no more cauſe that he which ſayth the Maſſe ſhould liue chaſt, then he that heareth it, or he that miniſtreth the Sacramēt, then he that receaueth it. It is to me great maruell that vnlawfull whoredome, couetouſnes, and extortion, can not defile their handes, as well as law full matrimonye. Curſſed therefore be their deuilliſhe doctrine wyth falſe appearing p. 317godlines, the fruit and power away, out of the hartes of all Chriſten men.

And when he bringeth the enſample of the heathen, I prayſe him. For the heathen becauſe they could not vnderſtand God ſpiritually, to ſerue hym in the ſpirit, to beleue in him, and to louelove his lawes, therfore they turned hys glory vntounto an Image, and ſerued hym after their owne imagination with bodely ſeruice, as the whole kingdome of the Pope doth, hauing leſſe power to ſerue hym in ſpirite then the Turkes. For when the heathē made an Image of the axes or feuers and ſacrificed ther ☞to, they knew that y^e Image was not the feuers, but vnderunder y^e ſimilitude of y^e Image, they worſhipped the power of God which plagued them with the feuers, with bodely ſeruice, as the Pope doth aboue all the Idolaters that euer were in the worlde. As when we paint Saint Machael weying the ſoules, & S. Michael wayeth … ſoules.ſticke vp a candle to flatter him, and to make him fauourable vntounto vsus, and regarde not the teſtament of Chriſt, nor the lawes of God, becauſe we hauehave no power to beleue nor to louelove the truth. And euen ſo, to referre virginitie vntounto the perſon of God, to pleaſe hym therwith, is falſe ſacrifice and heatheniſhe Idolatrie. For the onelyonly ſeruice of god The true ſeruice of God, what it is.is to beleue in Chriſt and to louelove the lawe. Wherfore thou muſt referre thy wedlocke, thy virginitie and all thy other deedes vntounto the keepyng of the lawe and ſeruing thy neighbour only. And then whē thou lookeſt wyth a louing hart, on the law that ſaith, breake not wedlocke, keepe no whore and ſo forth, and findeſt thy body weake, and thyne office ſuch that thou muſt hauehave conuerſation with mēs wiues, daughters and ſeruauntes, then it is better to hauehave a wife thē to be without. And againe if thou ſee ſeruice to be done y^t thou canſt not ſo well do with a wyfe as without, then if thou hauehave power to be without, it is beſt ſo to be, and in ſuch like. And els the one is as good as the other, and no difference. And to to take a wife for pleaſure, is as good as to abſteine for diſpleaſure.

And when M. More ſeeth no other cauſe, why it is not beſt that our ſpiritualitie were all gelded, then for loſſe of merite in reſiſtyng, beſides that that imagination is playne Idolatrie, I hold M. More beguiled, if all we read of gelded men be true and the experience we ſee in other beaſtes. For then the gelded luſt in their fleſh as much as the vngelded. Which if it be true, then the gelded, Whether it were beſt that prieſtes were gelded.in that he taketh ſuch great payne in geldyng, not to miniſhe his luſtes, but if luſtes ouercome him, yet that he hauehave not wherewith to hurt his neighbour, deſerueth more then the vngelded. And then it were beſt that we did eate and drinke & make our fleſh ſtrōg that we burned, to deſerue in reſiſting, as ſome of your holy Saintes hauehave layd virgins in their beddes; to kindle their courage, that they might after ☜quench their heate in cold water, to deſerue the merite of holy Martyrs.

And whē he ſayth, the Prieſtes of the old law abſteined from their wiues when they ſerued in the tēple. Many thynges were forbidden them, to kepe them in bonde and ſeruile feare & for other purpoſes. And yet I trow h… findeth it not in the text that they were forbidden their wiues. And when he imagineth ſo becauſe Zacharias, when his courſe was out, gat him home to his houſe, I thinke it was better for him to go to his houſe, then to ſend for his houſe to him, he was alſo old and his wife to. But and if they were forbidden, it was but for a tyme, to geue them to prayer, as we might do right well and as wel as they. But I read that they were for Leuit. 10.Lev 10bidden to drinke wine & ſtrong drinke, when they miniſtred: of whiche ours powre in without meaſure.

M. More. Chriſt liued chaſt and exhorteth More.vntounto chaſtitie.

Tyndall. We be not all of Chriſtes Tyndall.complection, neither exhorteth he to other chaſtitie then wedlocke, ſaue at a tyme to ſerue our neighbours. Now y^t Popes chaſtitie is not to ſerue a mās neighbour, but to runne to riotte and to carie away with him the liuyng of the poore and of the true preacher, euen the tythes of v. or vj. Pariſhes and to go & either dwell by a ſtewes or to cary a ſtewes with him, or to corrupt other mens wiues.

Paphnutius a man that neuer proued Paphnutius.Mariage is prayſed in the ſtories, for reſiſtyng ſuch doctrine with Gods word in a generall Councell before the Pope was a God. And now M. More a man that hath proued it twiſe is magnified for defendyng it with ſophiſtrie. And agayn me ſemeth that it is a great More had two wiues & therefore was Bigamus.ouer ſight of M. More to thinke that Chriſt though he were neuer maryed would not more accept the ſeruice of a maried mā that would more ſay truth for hym then they that abhorre wedlocke: p. 318in as much as the ſpiritualtie accept his humble ſeruice & reward his merites with ſo high honour, becauſe he can better fayne for them, then any of their vnchaſt, I would ſay owne chaſt people, though he be Bigamus & paſt the grace of his necke verſe.

And finally, if M. More loke ſo much on y^e pleaſure that is in Mariage, why ſetteth he not his eyes on the thankes geuyng for that pleaſure, & on the pacience of other diſpleaſures.

The xiiij. Chapter.

MOre. Wicleffe was the occaſion of More.the vtter ſubuerſion of the Realme of Boheme, both in faith and good liuing and of the loſſe of many a thouſand liues.

Tyndall. The rule of their fayth are Tyndall.Chriſtes promiſes, and the rule of their liuyng Gods law▪ And as for loſſe of The Pope a cruell tyra…nt.liues, it is truth that the Pope ſ…e I thinke an hundred thouſand of them, becauſe of their fayth & that they wold no l…nger ſerue him. As he ſ…e in England many a thouſand, & ſ…e the true …yng and ſee vp a falſe vntounto the e…fuſion of all the noble bloud and murthe ryng vp of the comminaltie, becauſe he ſhould be his deſender.

M. The conſtitution of the Byſhops is More.not that the Scripture ſhall not be in Engliſh, but that no man may tranſlate it by his owne authoritie or read it, vntill they had approued it.

Tyndall. If no tranſlatiō ſhalbe had Tyndall.vntill they geue licence or till they approue it, it ſhal neuer be had. And ſo it is all one in effect: to ſay there ſhalbe The ſpiritualtie would not hauehave the ſcripture in Engliſhe.none at all in Engliſh, and to ſay, till we admitte it, ſeyng they be ſo malicious that they will none admitte, but fayne all the cauillations they can, to proue it were not expedient. So that if it be not had ſpite of their harts it ſhall neuer be had. And thereto, they hauehave done their beſt to hauehave had it enacted by Parlament, that it ſhould not be in Engliſh.

The xv. Chapter.

HE ieſteth out Hunnes death with Hunne.his Poetrie were with he built Ʋ topia. Many great Lordes came to Baynardes Caſtell (but all nameleſſe) to examine the cauſe (as y^• credible Prelares ſo well learned, ſo holy and ſo indifferent whiche examined Bilney and Arture, be alſo all nameleſſe.)

M. Horſey tooke his pardon, becauſe More. Horſey.it is not good, to refuſe Gods pardon and the kynges.

Tyndall. Gods pardon can no man Tyndall.hauehave except he knowledge himſelfe a ſinner. And euen ſo he y^t receaueth the kynges yeldeth him ſelfe giltie. And moreouer it is not poſſible y^t he which If we be not giltie, we neede no pardon.putteth his truſt in God, ſhould for feare of the xij. men or of his iudges, receaue pardon for that hee neuer was faultie vntounto the diſhonoring of our ſauiour Ieſus, but would hauehave denyed it rather vntounto the death.

And therto, if the matter were ſo cleare as ye ieſt it out, then I am ſure the kynges graces both curteſie and wiſedome, wold hauehave charged the iudges More woulde excuſe the murther of Hunne.to hauehave examined the euidēce layd agaynſt him diligētly & ſo to hauehave quit hym with more honeſty then to geue him pardon of that he neuer treſpaſſed in, and to hauehave rid the ſpiritualitie out of hate and all ſuſpition.

Then ſayth he Hunne was ſore ſuſpect Hunne.of hereſie and conuict. And after he ſayth Hunne was an hereticke in deede and in perill ſo to be proued. And then ☜how was he conuict? I heard ſay, that he was firſt conuict, whē he was dead and then they did wrōg to burne him, till they had ſpoken with him, to were whether he would abiure or no.

M. The Byſhop of London, was wiſe, vertuous and cunnyng.More.

Tyndall. For all thoſe three yet he Tyndall.would hauehave made the old Deane Colet of Paules an hereticke, for tranſlatyng Doetour Lolet.the Pater n…ſter in Engliſh, had not the Byſhop of Canterbury holpe the Deane.

The xvj. Chapter.

THe meſſenger aſketh hym, if there be an old lawfull tranſlatiō before Wicleffes, how happeneth it that it is Olde tranſlation.in ſo few mens handes, ſeyng ſo many deſire it? He aunſwereth the Printer dare not Print it and then hang on a doubt…ul triall, whether it were tranſlated ſence or before, for if it were trāſlated ſence, it muſt be firſt approued.

What may not M. More ſay by authoritie More was a ſubtill Poet.of his Poetrie? there is a lawfull trāſlation y^t no mā knoweth, which is as much as no lawfull trāſlatiō. Why might not y^e biſhops ſhew which were that lawfull trāſlation & let it be Printed? Nay if that might hauehave bene obteined of thē with large money it had be Printed ye may be ſure lōg yer this. But Sir aunſwere me here vntounto, how happeneth that ye defenders tranſlate not one your ſelues, to ceaſe the murmour of the people, & put to your own gloſes, to preuent heretikes? ye would p. 319no doubt hauehave done it long ſence, if ye The hauyng of the Scripture in Engliſh is vtterly agaynſt the myndes of the Popiſh Clergie.could hauehave made your gloſes agree w^t the text in eueryevery place. And what can you ſay to this, how that beſides they hauehave done their beſt to diſanull all trāſlating by Parlament, they hauehave diſputed before the kynges grace, that is it perilous and not mete and ſo concluded that it ſhall not be, vnderunder a pretēce of deferring it of certein yeares: where M. More was their ſpeciall Orator, to fayne lyes for their purpoſe.

M. Nothyng diſcourageth the Clergie More.ſo much as that they of the worſte ſorte moſt calleth after it.

Tyndall. It might well be, Phariſeis Tyndall.full of holyneſſe long not after it, but Publicans that hunger after mercy might ſore deſire it. Howbeit, it is in very deede a ſuſpect thyng & a great ſigne of an heretike to require it.

Then he iuggleth with allegories. The ſcripture was firſt deliuered to the p…op…e in their vulgere toungSyr Moſes deliuered them all that he had receaued of God & that in the mother toung, in which all that had the hart therto ſtudied and not the Prieſts onelyonly as thou mayſt ſee in the Scripture. And the Apoſtles kept nothyng behind, as Paul teſtified Actes xx. how he had ſhewed them all the counſell of God & had kept nought backe. Shuld the lay people leſſe hearken vntounto the expoſitions of the Prelates in doubtfull places, if the text were in their handes when they preached?

M. The Iewes geue great reuerence More.vntounto the Bible and we ſit on it.

Tyndall. The Pope putteth it vnderunder Tyndall.his feete and treadeth on it, in tokē that he is Lord ouer it that it ſhould ſerue him, and he not it.

M. God hath ordeined the ordinaries More.for chief Phiſitions.

Tyndall. They be Lawyers ordeined Tyndall.of the Pope, and can no more ſkill of the Scripture then they that neuer ſaw it: ye and hauehave profeſſed a contrary doctrine. They be right hangmen to The ordina… are hangmē to ſuch as deſire the knowledge of the ſcripture.murther who ſoeuer deſireth for that doctrine that God hath geuē to be the ordinary of our fayth and liuyng.

And when he maketh ſo great difficultie and hardneſſe in Paules Epiſtles. I ſay, it is impoſſible to vnderſtand eyther Peter or Paul or ought at all in y^e ſcripture, for him that denieth y^t iuſtifiyng of faith in Chriſtes bloud. And agayn, it is impoſſible to vnderſtād in y^e None can vnderſtand the Scripture except he kneweſcripture more then a Turke, for whoſoeuer hath not the lawe of God written in his hart to fulfill it. Of which pointe and of true faith to, I feare me that you are voyde and empty with all your ſpiritualtie, whoſe defender ye Chriſt to be his iuſtification.hauehave taken vppon you to bee, for to mocke out the truth for lucre and vaū tage.