A Little Stone Found to be Counterfeit, Treatise · Part 2 · Section 5
SECTION. V. Mr, Lockiers Anſwers to ſome Objections made againſt his Aſſertion from ſome Paſſages of SCRIPTURE, SECT. 13, 14. Examined.
section 1 MR. Lockier, now proceedeth to propound againſt his Aſſertion, and to Anſwer ſome Objections, and in wiſedom chooſes a few of many that are extant to the World in Preſbyterian Writers, of als great weight as theſe he has picked out, and propounds ſome of them in as ſlender a way as he can, that the force of them may appear as little as may be: But ſee we them and his Anſwers to them as they are.
section 2 Object. Firſt, is from 1 Tim. 4. 14. Here is mention m… of a Preſbytery or Elderſhip, by the impoſition of whoſe hands and by no other conju…, Timothy was ordained: Therefore the Preſbytery wholly without the Church may exert power authoritative in moſt weighty matters, and … and gov… the Church alone. This place we conceive will car… … this and more too, even a Claſſicall Preſbytery or a Presbytery of moe aſſociat Churches. But for the preſent conſider we his anſwer as to the point in hand. The Preſbytery here (ſaith he) cannot be meaned of an ordinary Elderſhip, which hath its ordination from men becauſe it is beyond the power of ordinary Officers to give being to an extraordinary. Now ſuch was Timothy, to wit, an Evangeliſt: And therefore comes not under our Diſpute, but is to be ranked with extraordinary Apoſtolicall acts, and ordinations to extraordinary Offices which are ceaſed: of which nature ſec Acts 13. 43.
section 3 Anſw. 1. Whether this was an ordinary Elderſhip. i. e. A Colledge of ordinary, perpetuall Elders, or extraordinary, yet it was an Elderſhip and not the people that performed this act of ordination, as he himſelf yeelds. What then is become of his Aſſertion in the preceding Section: That i… theſe firſt times of the Church, the whole body … …ear the… joint …thoritative voice in all maters of greateſt we…ght. And S…. …. 10. even in an ordination of a… extrao…dinar Officer, of grea… … then an Evangeliſt, …. Wherein he alledge th… …at leſt it might have proved a … to luſtle out the priviledge of the …hole Church in maters of eſſentiall concernment, he was enſtated a…ongſt the Apoſtles themſelves not by the …ffrag… of ſome, i. e. the Apoſtles alone but by the ſ…ffrages of the whole Church. 2. If the Preſbyte… here cannot be meaned of an ordinary Elderſhip, what was it? I hope the Author will not ſay with ſome P…piſh and Prelaticall writers, that it was an company of Biſhops that were, both Elders, and more then Elders: I conceive he can mean no other thing but that ſame which the Author of the Queries concerning ordination. Qu. 19. that they were ſome other Apoſtles or Apoſtles fellows together with Paul, who 2 Tim. 1. …. is ſaid to have …ayed his hands on Timothy, and that Apoſtles are called Elders, and a company of Apoſtles are called a Presbytery or an Elderſhip. I ſay it ſeemeth the Author can conceive no other thing to be meant, for he ſayeth it muſt be an Elderſhip that had not *And yet he himſelf above, Sect. …0. Such ex…raordina…ie Elders might have their ordination from man, & le facto. Ma…hias had his ſo. So that by this …e …ayeth here Mat…ias, tho an Apoſtle could not be one of this Elderſhip.ordination from man. But this co…ceit is ſo abundantly anſwered by Mr. Gilleſpy of worthy memory, Miſcell. c. 8. pag. 104. & ſeq. that little needeth to be added to what is ſaid … him. I ſhall here briefly touch at ſome particular… given in Anſwer to this. 1. Suppoſe the Preſbytery in this place 1 Tim. 4. 14. to be an Aſſembly of Apoſtles, yet nothing ſhall be gained thereby to Mr. Lockiers cauſe. For the name Presbytery or Elderſhip, being purpoſely choſen in this Text which mentions laying on of hands in ordination, will prove, that the Apoſtles did it as Elders, and as an act of an Aſſemby of Elders, not as a thing peculiar to them as Apoſtles; For no rationall man will imagine, that the Holy Ghoſt intending to expreſſe ſome extraordinary thing, which the Apoſtles did as Apoſtles, and which belongs not to ordinary Elders, would in that very thing purpoſely call them foreign, an Aſſemby of Elders. 2. That the Presbyterie here is not an Aſſembly of Apoſtles but of Elders who were not Apoſtles may be proven. 1 By comparing this Text with 2 Tim. 1. 6. The gift of God which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. If it had been an Aſſembly of Apoſtles that had laid their hands on Timothy, and ſo joined with Paul in that action, Paul had not thus diſtinguiſhed his laying on of hands from that of his fellow Apoſtles, as if the gifts of the Holy Ghoſt had been given to Timothy only, by the laying on of his hands, and not by, but with the laying on of the hands of his fellow Apoſtles. Of this difference of the Phraſe in the one Text and the other, ſee this ſame worthy Author, pag. 101. 2. Apoſtles and Elders are ordinarly diſtinguiſhing names in Scripture, the latter ſignifying the ordinary, perpetuall, fixed Rulers in the Church. So that it muſt be but a deviſed fiction, to leave the ordinary notion of the word Elder, which ſignifies an Office diverſe from the Apoſtleſhip, and to take the Elderſhip here for an Aſſembly of Apoſtles. Nay we do not find at any time in Scripture the name Elder given to the Apoſtles, at leaſt never to them or any of them as Apoſtles contradiſtinguiſhed from other Officers. 'Tis true Peter, 1 Epiſt. 5. 1. calls himſelf foreign: But from that very appellation, the worthy Author, we are now borrowing from, doth excellently reaſon, and for our purpoſe, againſt Mr. Lockier here, I need not tranſcribe his words, ſeeing the Book is common, the Reader may have recourſe to it ſelf, and have much ſatisfaction. See pages 105, 106, 107. We conclude then and affirm that this Elderſhip was no other but an Aſſembly of Elders, as were theſe, Acts 20. 17. ordinary Elders of the Church; And to expound it of an Aſſembly of extraordinary Officers, is but a fiction without ground in Scripture, deviſed by men, to ſhut out clear light. And Mr. Lockier may remember that as able judicious men as are of his way, the Diſſenting Brethren in the Aſſembly at Weſtminſter, in their Reaſons againſt the Propoſition of Ordination, take it to be an ordinary Elderſhip, and ſo reaſon from it to the regulating of ordinary Ordination of Elders in the Church. That a ſufficient Preſbytery (ſay they, meaning, as is evident, an ordinary Presbytery) may aſſume all and ſole power of ordination, is proved, 1 Tim. 4. 14. by the laying on of the hands of the Preſbytery.
section 4 Mr. Lockiers Reaſon to prove the contrary is of no force. Timothy was an extraordinary Officer, an Evangeliſt, and it is beyond the power of ordinary Officers to give being to an extraordinary, That ſame worthy Author, we mentioned, ſufficiently diſcovereth the weakneſſe of it in the place cited. pag. 103. For 1. If it ſhould be ſaid that Timothy was twice ordained: firſt to be a Presbyter, then to be an Evangeliſt, (as ſome Epiſcopall Writers ſay to be a Biſhop: but a Biſhop diſtinct from a Presbyter is a humane creaature not in Scripture) and the firſt to be that, mentioned 1 Tim. 4. 14. done by the ordinary Elderſhip; The ſecond mentioned 2 Tim. 1. 6. done by Paul an Apoſtle, an extraordinary Officer above an Evangeliſt; I know not what Mr. Lockier will bring to infringe this. 2. Suppoſing that he was but once ordained, an Evangeliſt and Elder both (as who ever was an Evangeliſt was alſo an Elder) yet an ordinary Elderſhip might concur with Paul in his Ordination, and the act of theſe ordinary Elders extend no further but to that which was common to him with other Elders, the Office of Elderſhip, that which was extraordinary flowing from the Apoſtle Pauls concurrence in the buſineſſe. In this mixt action we may very well diſtinguiſh, what was ordinary and what extraordinary, aſcribing that to the Presbytery (viz. together with Paul) this to the Apoſtle. 3. Yet further I ſay with the worthy Author, I bring theſe things from, that I can ſee no inconſiſtency or abſurdity, if it be ſaid that the Presbytery ſent forth and ordained Timothy as an Evangeliſt: that it is alledged an Evangeliſt is an extraordinary Officer, and therefore the Elders being ordinary Officers could not give him a being, i. e. ordain him, I deny the neceſſity of the conſequence, any reaſon that can be brought to prove that conſequence muſt be, as I conceive, one of thoſe two, viz. Either, 1. That which is brought by ſome, from, Hebrews 7. 7. The leſſe is bleſſed by the greater, to which, as to this particular in hand, that worthy Author has ſufficiently Anſwered, by two things Firſt, that altho Timothy as an Evaneliſt was greater then a ſingle Presbyter, yet that proves not that he was greater then the whole Presbytery, as one of the houſe of Lords is (ſure was) greater then one of the houſe of Commons; Yet not then the whole houſe of Commons, 2ly That he that bleſſeth is not greater then he that is bleſſed, every way: But quatalis, in ſo far as he bleſſeth, and ſo why might not the Presbytery be greater then an Evangeliſt, not ſimply and abſolutely, but ſo far as they bleſſed and ordained him? That Author gives two inſtances of the like, Act. 9. 17. and Act. 13. 1, 3. Or 2. the reaſon of that conſequence muſt be this: Becauſe, ordinary Officers not having in themſelves that extraordinar office, can not give that which they have not. And if this be it, I would then aske Mr. Lockier, how can people give the Office of a Miniſter which they have not in themſelves, nay, the Office of an Apoſtle, as he alledgeth that the people ordained Mathias an Apoſtle, whatſover he can anſwer for that will ſerve our turn for the Presbytery, ordaining Timothy to that Office, which they had not in themſelves. The truth is, mens ordaining a perſon to an Eccleſiaſtick Office, not being by way of proper efficiency, nor yet the Ordainers acting therein as principal agents or conferrers of the office (that is Gods part by his inſtitution) but as morall inſtruments under God: It is not, ex natura rei, requiſite, that the ordainers have in themſelves formally the Office, whereunto they Ordain the perſon; But it is ſufficient that they have a warrand from God to interveen as inſtruments to apply the perſon to the Office inſtituted by God. And I ſee nothing in the Office of an Evangeliſt that can prove that ordinary Officers could have no warrand from God to act in this kind of cauſality to the applying of a perſon to it. Read that which the often mentioned worthy Author hath judiciouſly ſpoken upon the nature of the Office of an Evangeliſt, Miſcell. c. 7. p. 93, 94. and it will ſhew, I ſay not this without reaſon.
section 5 I truſt by theſe things it appears that this inſtance of ordination by a Presbytery is not ſo far from this diſputation as Mr. Lockier would have his Reader beleeve, but that it is a patern of ordination in ordinary (which ſome of the moſt judicious of his own ſide acknowledge with us) ſhewing us alſo the right hands into which Chriſt has committed this power, to wit the Elderſhip. The example which he referreth us to, Act. 13. 2, 3. we thank him for it, as making very much againſt himſelf: For albeit Barnabas and Paul, the perſons on whom the act mentioned there, paſſed, did not then receive any new ordination, to an Office extraordinary, as Mr. Lockier, in a miſtake or inanimadvertency has imagined when he wrot this (they were Apoſtles before) yet did they receive a new call unto a more particular application, or as it were appropriation of the exerciſe of their Office unto a certain definit charge, the Gentiles to wit, as Paul himſelf declareth it, Gal. 2. 7. and yet, we ſee evidently that as this calling was not performed by the body of the Church, ſo it was performed by ſome ordinary Elders, I ſay not that it was by ordinary Elders only, for there were Prophets that had hand in it; But I ſay that ordinary Elders did alſo concurre in it, as appears, v. 1. There were at Antioch certain Prophets and Teachers; I hope it will not be denyed that Teachers are ordinary Elders.
section 6 2. Object. Is from 1 Tim. 5. 22. and Tit. 1. 5. We read (ſaith he) that Titus and Timothie did ordain and are exhorted in an ordinary way to go to work by an ordinary ſpirit; to wit, not to lay hands ſuddenly on any man, nor to be partiall, but to weigh fit qualifications in every one, that they were blameleſſe, the Huſband of one Wife, not accuſed of riot, not ſelf-willed, not ſoon angry, not given to filthy lucre. And this ordination they acted alone: Therefore the Elderſhip, may do in moſt weighty things in the Church without the Church, without the joint conſent of the Church. Anſw. We bring not theſe places for the generall, that Acts of Government belong to the Officers of the Church, only; To wit, to act therein authoritatively. But, for this particular, ordination. Again the Author propounds the concluſion invidiouſly, without the conſent of the Church. We acknowledge that in theſe weighty matters the Church, i. e. the people, are to have a rationall obedientiall conſent, but privat; The Queſtion is whether they ought to have an authoritative deciſive ſuffrage? And in the Calling of Miniſters they ought to have ſuffrage in their election: But as for the poteſtative miſſion, or ordination, that, we ſay, belongs to the Officers in the Church onelyonly. 3ly It is to be obſerved how the Author labours to cover the force of theſe places for proving of this, by ſlipping by the principall words, Titus 1. 5. and ordain Elders in every City, and produces only the words of the verſes following, expreſſing the qualifications requiſite and to be preſuppoſed in the perſons that are to be ordained. In a word the argument from theſe places, is by him as ſlightly propounded, as, I think, poſſibly he could. But let him take it thus. If ordination of Paſtours by Apoſtolick authority be committed to Officers in the Church as Officers, then it belongeth not unto the people. But the former is proven from theſe places. Therefore, &c. The Propoſition is clear of it ſelf. The Aſſumption is cleared from the Texts. Firſt, Timothy is charged to lay hands ſuddenly on no man in that ſame way, and under that ſame conſideration that he is charged, not to receive an accuſation againſt an Elder, but upon two or three witneſſes teſtimony; And as he is charged to rebuke ſins publickly, that others may fear; and that he is charged to obſerve theſe other Rules given to him for ordering his adminiſtration in the Church, v. 19, 20, 21. But theſe things are a charge given to him as a Paſtor: So by what power Titus was charged to rebuke the Cretians ſharply, that they might be ſound in the faith, v. 13. By that ſame power was he left in Crete to ordain Elders in every City. But this he was to doe by an Official power, and as an Officer, as is evident by comparing that v. with v. 9. Therefore, &c. Again, here is an expreſſe Commiſſion to men in Office, to ordain, and charge laid upon them to be aware of doing it in a wrong way. Let the Author ſhow me in all the New teſtament, a Commiſſion given to people to ordain Miniſters, or a charge laid upon them to take heed how they ordain: But ſee we now the Authors Anſwers to theſe places.
section 7 One of theſe places (ſaith he) anſwers another, and openeth another. 'Tis ſaid to Titus, that he ſhould ordain Elders in every City, as Paul had appointed him. Now it cannot be thought in reaſon, that the Apoſtle would appoint him to ordain, otherwiſe then he himſelf had ordained: but he himſelf did ordain by the ſuffrage of the people, and did eſtabliſh them by the help of their faſting and prayer, Acts 14. 23. And this is all which is left upon record, for direction in this mater, as yet we can find; and therefore this appointment Timothy and Titus muſt and did follow. Anſw. 1. True, Paul would not appoint Titus to ordain otherwiſe then he ordained himſelf. But that Paul did ordain by the ſuffrage of the people is but begged: and that place, Acts 14. 23. does not prove it. The moſt that can be deduced from it, is, that Paul and Barnabas ordained the Elders, being nominated, deſigned and elected, by the peoples ſuffrage, as is ſhown before, whether we refer the Author and the Reader. I ſhall onelyonly note a word here of worthy Cartwright upon that place, Acts 14. 23. whereby it doth appear that, albeit he ſtandeth for the firſt ſignification of the word foreign in that place, to wit, that it importeth giving of ſuffrages by lifting up of hands: yet he referreth that to Election, which he will have to have bee… done by the people: (and we deny not this) but ſaith not that the people had hand in the ordination of theſe Elders with Paul and Barnabas: But on the contrair expreſly giveth ordination to the ſole Officers. You ſpeak untruly (ſaith he to the Rhemiſts) which accuſe us, as if we ſo commended the Churches Election, as we ſhot out the Biſhops Ordination, which we not only give unto them, but make them alſo the chief and directors in the Election; Ʋnderſtanding by Biſhops ſuch as are mentioned in the Scriptures, and not humane creatures. 2. Is this, viz. Acts 14. 23. all that is left upon record for direction in this matter, to wit, Ordination? Then 1. its ſure M…. Lockier has little ground for his faith that Ordination ought to be done by the people, when as we have ſo expreſſe Scriptures for Officers acting in it; And he has none for the peoples acting in it but that one, which neither mentions people, nor, vi materiae, by force of the thing ſpoken in it, can by conſequence import any more, as to them, but their ſuffrages for Election. 2. But it ſeems he has forgotten himſelf in ſhort bounds: for did he not, SECT. 8. cite Acts 1. 28. for direction in this matter? Or has he afterward changed his minde of that place, finding that it made nothing for his purpoſe? But 3. He may, if he will, find more upon record for direction in this matter, beſides theſe preſent two places: Acts. 6. 3, 6. Acts 13. 1, 2, 3. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 2 Tim. 2. 2. in all which we finde Ordination performed by Officers, without people. Alſo Tit. 1. 13. Rev. 2. 2, 14, 15, 16, 20. Acts 20. 28, 29. In which places the cenſuring of Miniſters is committed unto, and required of the Officers of the Church, which is never committed unto or required of people. Now to whom belongeth the Authority of taking away an Eccleſiaſtick Miniſtry, to the ſame belongeth to confer it.Gul. Apollon. Conſider. of ſundrie Controv. c. 4. pag. 58, 59