A Little Stone Found to be Counterfeit, Treatise · Part 2 · Section 4
SECTION IV. Mr. Lockiers Argument from common Teſtimony, SECT. 12. conſidered and Anſwered.
section 1 MR. Lockier having alledged firſt reaſons, next ſome expreſſe Paſſages of Scripture (wherein how he has acquit himſelf we leave to be judged by the impartiall diſcerning Reader) in the laſt place. Take (ſaith he) common conſent for this truth (i. e. his Aſſertion, no truth) that the whole Congregation are to have joint authoritative ſuffrages in all maters of greateſt weight, i. e. all acts of Eccleſiaſtick Government. By common conſent he muſt mean the teſtimony of Eccleſiaſtick Writers, and now I pray what teſtimonies of Eccleſiaſtick Authors brings he? Juſt two, one of yeſterday, I may ſay jugling in the buſineſſe, and another nothing to the purpoſe, ſee we them both.
section 2 Firſt, In the firſt times this was ſo well known and ſo frequent in practice—that Biſhop Whitegift himſelf, one that wanted not wit nor learning, nor any other help, and ſetting all his ſtrength to maintain a Theſe contrary to what we are upon, yet is conſtrained to confeſſe that in the Apoſtles times the ſtate of the Church was democratiall or popular, the people or multitude having hand almoſt in every thing, Defence, pag. 182. which word almoſt, doth ſute with the thing I am upon. For indeed, as I have ſaid, in all weighty matters the whole body had their joint voice—as hath been before proved.
Anſw. 1. That Whiteg…ft ſet all his ſtrength to maintain … Theſe contrary to what … preſ…ation of the ma… mind. The … was, that the … Government and ju… … hands onelyonly of th… … …lats, excluding no… … all other Preſby… … Church. 2. By the… … wherein he ſaith, that … …nown and frequen… … he means … of the Church … themſelves …, or therewith taking in the next … the …hurch▪ If … mean the latter, I conceive he would …one much better to … cited ſome Writers of theſe times themſeves ſaying ſo much, then taken the matter upon report from Whitegift. But let him, if he can produce any Ancient Writers Eccleſiaſtick of theſe times either ſpeaking for his Tenet in dogmate, or relating any practice thereof in the Church of theſe times: This he will never be able to do. If he mean the former, 'tis true Whitegift ſayes ſo that in the Apoſtles times the ſtate of the Church for outward Government was popular—: But 1. Whitegift withall for uphold… …he power and Government of Prelats in the Church of England, excluding all other Church Officers, maintains moſt falſly and perniciouſly, there was no particular form of Government appointed by precept in the New Teſtament. But that the determination of this is … the power of the Civil Magiſtrate, the chief and principall Governour of the Church in his judgement: And therefore granted, for his own deſign, that the people had ſometimes an hand in matters of Government, accidentally, becauſe of the want of Civil Magiſtrates to eſtabliſh Rulers. 2. Who had hand in acts of Government of the Church in the Apoſtles times, can be known beſt by Scripture it ſelf, and no otherwayes c…ainly. If Mr. Lockier, has brought forth any Scripture holding forth, either by precept or practice, that the body of the people ought or did concur formally and authoritatively in acts of Government, tho he has aſſayed to do, and ſayes here he has prove… it, I leave to the Readers to judge. Whitegift would never alledge precept of Scripture for this, and for practice I find none alledged by him, but in the mater of Election of Officers, which is no act of government or authority, and yet he alledgeth that neither in that did they alwayes concur, which I conceive to be an untruth. To cloſe this, let Mr. Lockiers ingenuity b… obſerved here in ſpeaking for a popular and … of the Church by his applauding of …his … Whitegifts▪ Independents commonly refuſe altogether that the Government they maintain … and profeſſe a diſcla… of Mo…llius for this. But … it is no other. And … Author …ere is ingenuous in t…king with, and applauding that name. For why ſhould not a true thing have i… own name?
section 3 His ſecond teſtimony i… the Canon of the Councell of …aodie…, …0. years after Chriſt (yea and 4. if not 8. years more) ordaining that the people, after that ſhould have no hand in the choiſe of their Officers, unleſſe it formerly had. What meaneth this Canon (…aith he) unleſſe formerly it was ſo that the people had hand in it? Anſw. Let it be ſo that this Canon doth import that formerly the people had hand in Election of their Officers (as we grant they … ought to have, and have with us) Election is no act of Eccleſiaſtick Authority or …riſdiction, nor makes one a Church Officer, as was ſaid before. But what is this to the purpoſe? His undertaking was to bring common teſtimony to prove that in the firſt times of the Church, the body of the people, the whole Congregation had joint authorita…ve ſuff…age with the Officer… in all maters of greateſt weight, i. e. in all acts of Eccleſ…ſtick Gov…ment, is it not a very ſufficient making out of this, to … one Canon, of one Councell, indirectly importing that they …d hand in one act, and that no formall act of Government and Authority? And is this all the common teſtimony we muſt be content with? Now when as all acts of Eccleſiaſtick power, authority and government (in Scripture deſigned by the Keyes) are comprehended in theſe, 1. Publick Preaching of the Goſpel: 2. Adminiſtration of the Seals or Sacraments of Baptiſm and the Supper: 3. Ordination and authoritative ſending of Officers: 4. Diſpenſation of Diſcipline, Excommunication and Abſolution. I would have the Author producing to us common teſtimony for the peoples concurring joyntly and authoritatively in theſe or any of them in the firſt times of the Church.
section 4 What followeth in this SECT. of the Authors, is but a fliſt of big empty words, added unto weak reaſoning, to ſtartle ſilly Readers, to which ſhortly. 1. Whom he mea…s by his ſuperintendents once and again reckon… … with … and Biſhops. I know not well, he may be pleaſed … That Biſhops and … did piece by … of God many … …pirituall liberties, and … of Chriſte, is certain. But any … teſtimony (as he … by him, very little of this appeareth, as appeate very evidently. 3. In repreſenting the ſervants of God that are … new deviſed modell of popular Government of the Church, under the name of the children of theſe Metropolitans and Biſhops is both an unjuſt and ridiculous ſlander. I beleeve theſe Hierarchicall Lords never did, nor ever will look upon Preſbyterians, as any of their kinde. 4. To order the Church of CHRIST, as that therein his Officers and Miniſters rule his People, under him, by his ordinances, according to the rule of his Word, & that the people over whom they are ſet, obey them in the LORD, is not the taking from people any thing, for which theſe, that teach and hold by that w…y, need to repent, nor know we any words of GOD ſpoken againſt them for that way; And for …ans words without Gods Word they ſtand not: Nor have they cauſe to take any works or blowes, or bloods of their body (you have taken too much upon you to pronoun… upon their ſoul blood, think Sir, upon Rom. 14. and let your heart … you for this) as inflicted by God on that account, tho they … they have ſinned againſt him, and deſires therefore to bear his indignation. If men has given them blowes and ſhed their blood upon that account, let them look to it, and Sir take heed your hands be not defiled with it; As indeed in this Book ye breath out ſomewhat that way not once. And for your out-cry, O Lord how low ſhall we be, &c. to it as intended by you, I muſt ſay to you, as Job to his friends upon ſomewhat the like unjuſt challenges againſt him, and miſconſtructions of Gods rods upon him: Will ye ſpeak wickedly for God? And talk deceitfully for him—is it good that he ſhould ſearch you out? Or as one man mocketh another do ye ſo mock him? But now Sir, look upon the pollutions, and layings waſte of his dwelling place in England at this day, which makes all the Churches abroad the World to lament the caſe of it, and ſee whether the Preſbyterian way, or that way you ſtand for has effected them: And I beleeve ye may ſay it was not without a Providence of … that ye uttered this exclamation in that … you have …red it in: How low, ſhall W… be, er… W… lay … heart.