Further Discovery of the Quakers, Reply · Principle 1 – Principle 2
Principle 1. Not to ſalute any.
REader, though we have proved that this command Luke 10.4. of not ſaluting any by the way, were but a particular caſe, and not generally binding (as we have made evident by many Scripture Arguments, and the practiſes of the Saints) and though we have fully proved the command of Chriſt impoſeth generall ſalutation upon ſaints, as a duty, as thou mayſt Reade Perfect Phariſee, pag. 31. 42. yet thus he excepts.
Excep. 1 The ſumme of his exception is againſt High-way ſalutes.
To which we anſwer.
Reply. 1. High-way Salutes are the knowne practice of Quakers, as when they meet any of their owne way in the ſtreets, or other-where, their Phraſe is, How doſt thou, and their action, to take them by the Hand. And if that Text command againſt High-way ſalutes, how contrary is their practice to it, Salute no man by the way.
2. However the Quakers doe contend againſt high-way ſalutes, (though by their owne practice, Publican-like amongſt one another, they contradict this Principle) yet high-way ſalutes were the practice of ſaints, when holy Iacob met his Brother Eſau by the high-way, Gen. 33.3. He paſſed over before them, and bowed himſelfe before him ſeven times, untill he came neere to his Brother, &c. Did nor gracious Abigail ſalute David by the high-way? 1 Sam. 25 23. When David was comming to her houſe, ſhe went to meet him, and when Abigail ſaw David, ſhe haſted, and lighted off the Aſſe, and fell before David on her face, and bowed her ſelfe by the ground. Thus you ſee the practice of the ſaints in high-way ſalutes.
3. Nay, it was not onelyonly the cuſtome of the ſaints to ſalute by bodily geſtures,foreign. Salutes of Primitive times. but by words alſo, and words equivalent to what are uſed by the people of God in England in their ſalutations. See 2 Iohn 10. where Iohn forbiddeth them to give the leaſt countenance to the hereticall venters of falſe Doctrines, commands them not ſo much as to bid them God-ſpeed; which clearely proves, that that high-way ſalutation, was a common thing in the Apoſtles dayes, and not to be denyed to any, but ſuch wicked perſons as the Apoſtle there ſpeaks of in carrying on their wicked Principles; If any man bring not this Doctrine, receive him not into your houſe, neither bid him God ſpeed. Hence Naylers colour, of taking the name of God in vaine, we fully declare againſt peoples uſing that Phraſe without any ſenſe of God upon their ſoules. Yet looke upon ſalutes as a command of Chriſt, and ſo wiſh all ſuch as doe uſe the name of the bleſſed God in their ſalutes, either to keep a due regard of that Majeſty upon their ſpirits when they uſe his glorious name, or elſe to uſe ſome other expreſſion.
Excep. 2 His next cavill is againſt that plaine Text, Mat. 5.47. If yee ſalute your Brethren onelyonly, what doe you more then doe others? doe not even the Publicans ſo? Where in ſtead of ſubmitting to the authority of the commands of Chriſt; He ſayes thus, It is no command to them to ſalute all, but a warning to them of their partiality.
Reply. 1. He that hath but looked upon that Text Mat. 5.46.47. but with halfe an eye, will clearely ſee, that he muſt as well except, that Chriſt doth not command to love all, as to ſay, that Chriſt doth not command to ſalute all; when its apparant, that the very phraſe and reaſon in both commands, is the very ſame.
2. Sure this man doth not underſtand himſelfe, when he affirmes, that this is a command againſt partiality, in ſaluting; and yet is not a command to ſalute all: for what is partiality in ſaluting? but this ſaluting ſome, and not ſaluting all. What a ridiculous cavill is this, even to the contradicting of himſelfe?
3. As to his endeavouring by this ridiculous, and ſelfe contradicting expoſition, to charge us with partiality, as that we ſalute onelyonly thoſe whom we love, and who are rich, &c. we ſay it is a malitious ſlander; for tis ſufficiently knowne, we ſalute ſtrangers, whoſe face we never ſaw before, and the poore of the people, as well as the richeſt of them; nay, the very Quakers themſelves alſo: But how doth this againe fly in their Fa…es, who for the moſt part carry with ſo much incivility to all, but to people of their owne way.
Excep. 3 3. There is a third exception, which we muſt not paſſe over without ſerious obſervation, it being a more then ordinary diſcovery of the ſpirit of the Quakers. Where when we charge them for picking and chooſing at the command of Chriſt, ſuch things in Scripture as doe moſt agree with their humors and fancies, thus, though they are forbid in the ſame place, Luke 7.4. to carrie mony in their purſes, or to weare ſhooes on their feet, as well as to ſalute any by the way; yet we charge them in this, becauſe they ſtand upon the one command, and not upon any of the reſt, and doe evidently bring themſelves within the curſe, Rev. 22. Nayler thus replyes to it, pag. 21. l. 4. &c What we doe is not from the command that was to others, ☞but from command of the ſame power by which we are ſent forth; and if we were commanded to forbeare wearing ſhooes, as well as we are commanded to forbeare your Heatheniſh cuſtomes, &c. we ſhould be made willing to obey, as ſome have done who have been commanded to goe naked, &c.
Reply. Now thou mayſt ſee the myſtery of iniquity, that lyes in the Quakers, layd open; we can bleſſe the Lord that hath made them thus unvayle themſelves, and diſcover the rottenneſſe of their hearts as to the authority of the Scriptures, which they have ſo long by their jugling endeavoured to conceale. For here thou wi…t clearely ſee, that the Quakers looke upon the commands of Chriſt in Scripture, as having no ſoveraigne or binding authority over their conſciences and practiſes, further then agrees with their owne Principles and fancies. For what means that expreſſion? What we doe, is not from the command that was to others. This without controverſie is utterly to ſhake off the authority of the the Word. For 1. Was not the whole Word written to others? Did any now alive live in thoſe dayes when the Prophets or Apoſtles writ their ſeverall Bookes? Were we of the Church of Corinth? or Philippi? Were we of the ſeven Churches of Aſia? or did we live in theſe dayes? Alas, there is no command in Scripture but was given to others long before the dayes of our Fathers; and ſhall no command given to others be binding to us? Let them Reade theſe convincing Texts, Rom. 15.4. Whatſoever things were Written before time, were Written for our learning; where Paul makes the Books of the Old Teſtament binding to thoſe who were not alive when they were Written; for the Romans to whom he then Wrote, were borne many hundred yeares after the writing of thoſe Scriptures. 1 Cor. 10 11. All theſe things happened unto them for examples, and they were Written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 2 Tim. 3.16. All Scripture to whomſoever Written, or to what man ſoever the command was given before time, yet all Scripture is given by inſpiration of God, and is profitable for Doctrine, reproofe, correction, inſtruction in righteouſneſſe. So the 2 Peter 1.19. ſpeaking of the Scriptures, that ſure Word of Propheſie, ſayes, they doe well to take heed to them, as to a light in a darke place; though they were Propheſies and command… given forth to other perſons many hundred yeares before. Thus you ſee that commands in Scripture that were given forth to others, are yet of univerſall concernment unto all, to thoſe that lived not in thoſe dayes, even ſuch upon whom the ends of the world are come.
For that other expreſſion of Naylers, If we were commanded to forbeare to weare ſhooes, &c. what a wretched caſting off is this of the yoke of Chriſt, and a deſperate picking and chooſing in his commands, onelyonly what is agreeing to their owne fancies. I… not this, to breake his bonds aſunder and caſt his cords from them. Pſal. 2.3. If we were commanded; Is not the revealed will of Chriſt a command? Is one part of the ſame verſe a command, (ſee Luke 10.4.) and not the other part? Is nothing a command till they judge it ſo? How looſe doe they hang in obedience to the Lord Jeſus? they will obey, and not obey, as they ſhall ſee cauſe▪ Prayſes be to our God that we have diſcovered them; Now we underſtand the reaſon why Nayler anſwered none of our Scriptures; we perceive he looked upon them as nothing to him: and now we clearely ſee the meaning of their ſ…uffling… about the Word of God and their ſcornefull expreſſions about the written Word, &c. So that we can boldly charge them from this place with this horrid blaſphemy, that the Quakers doe affirme.
☜That the Scriptures have no authority over their conſciences at all, nor any command in Scripture that was given to others that binds them, ſave what command they have an impulſe upon their owne ſpirits; for,
This is the great ſtrong hold of Satan, and the ſnare, with which he entraps them as he will.
…From this Principle of theirs he goes about to prove the law fulneſſe of people going naked, and reviles us for ſpeaking againſt it; and ſayes they doe it by particular command from God. Reader, thou mayſt obſerve. That Nayler denyes not what we wrote about their going naked in Perfect Phariſee. pag. 48. the Wife of Edmund Adlington of Kendale going naked though the ſtreets, Nov. 21. 1653. We ſhall adde more, becauſe ſome that have leſſe acquaintance with theſe people, may ſeeme to make queſtion of it. On Munday October 28. 1653. there was one Thomas Holme of Kendale went as naked as he was borne through the Market place at Kirby Stephen on the market day; at his turning he ſaid,Mark that It is not I, but God that goeth naked, &c. and ſo after a time, he went to his clothes, which were kept in a Barne by foure men of his Sect. And to ſhew that this is a fact they juſtifie and pleade for (in ſtead of mourning for the horrible ſin of it) Mr. Taylour a great ring-leader of that people, came to that Towne the weeke after to ſeeke Mr. Higginſon, Miniſter of that place, as he ſaid, having a Meſſage to him from the Lord, and being there in the Market place, he very ſolemnely pronounced a woe againſt it, for rejecting that Prophet of the Lord, which he had ſent to doe ſignes and wonders in it, meaning, as thoſe that heard him did conceive, that beaſt that went ſtarke naked through the Towne a little before.
This we have from Mr. Higginſon, under his owne hand.
Thomas Caſtly, January 10. 1653. went ſhameleſſely naked as he was borne through the ſtreets at Kendale. Edmund Nubyes Wife went through Kendale naked, except that ſhe had a ſhift on: and about the latter end of December laſt, ſhe came into the place of meeting of the Church at Kendale in the ſame poſture. Another of this Sect came in the ſame poſture into Hutton Chappell at the time of exerciſe about the beginning of January. Elizabeth Levens, and Miles Newby went up the ſtreets at Kendale in the ſame poſture. This we have atteſted from Mr. Walker a godly Miniſter at Kendale under his hand, by Letters bearing date Ianuary 31. 1653. But were it needfull to prove it, we could by ſending into places where theſe converſe, fill thee with undeniable evidence hereof; but its needleſſe, becauſe Nayler denyeth it not, but labours to juſtifie them in this ſinfull practice. As to the manifeſting of the wickedneſſe hereof, we ſhall give thee theſe conſiderations.
1. No ſooner had Adam and Eve fallen, and were ſtripped of their Innocency, but they ſaw themſelves ſhamefully naked, Gen 3.10. But God who knowes the working of corruption in the hearts of men after the fall, he himſelfe cloathed them, loſt their nakedneſſe ſhould appeare, ver. 21. Ʋnto Adam alſo, and to his Wife, did the Lord God make Coats of Skins, and cloathed them. And doth not this manifeſt the will of God againſt going naked? would he have cloathed them, if he would have had them continue in that nakedneſſe?
2 But that you may yet ſee further, how odious being naked before others is in the ſight of God, the ſad curſe that Noah from the mouth of God layd upon Ham the Father of Canaan, for not covering his Fathers nakedneſſe, will appeare Gen. 9 22.23.24. &c. Ham the Father of Canaan ſaw the Nakedneſſe of his Father, and told his two Brethren without, and Shem and Japhet tooke a garment and layd it upon both their ſhoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedneſſe of their Fathers, and their Faces were backeward, and they ſaw not their Fathers nakedneſſe; And Noah aweke from his Wine, and knew what his younger Sonne had done to him, and ſaid, Curſed be Canaan, &c. and he ſaid, Bleſſed be the God of Shem, anh Canaan ſhall be his ſervant, &c. God ſhall enlarge Japheth, and Canaan ſhall be his ſervant, &c. Where you ſee, Ham is bitterly curſed, and the curſe entailed to all his Poſteri y for that ſinne of not covering his Fathers nakedneſſe. And what then ſhall we thinke of ſuch an expreſſion as Mary Colliſon a Quaker in Kendale uſed to theſe that covered the nakedneſſe of the Wife of Edmund Adlington, in the ſtreet at Kendale, That they had hindered the worke of the Lord? Oh! let them remember the curſe of Ham, and the bleſſing of Shem and Iapheth here expreſſed.
3. The Apoſtle arguing to the care that one Saint ought to have over another, doth it by a compariſon of them with the body naturall; and tells you 1 Cor. 12.23.24. thoſe members of the body which we judge to be loſſe honourable, upon theſe we beſtow more abundant honour, and our uncomely parts (foreign See Rom. 1.27. pudenda, indecora membra, inſtrumenta excretioni, & generationi deſtinata) have more abundant comelineſſe; for our comely parts (viz. Face, Hands, &c.) have no need; marke that, the uncomely parts needed, yea they are ſuch parts, that (as the Apoſtle phraſeth it) they lacked more abundant honour, viz. leſt their nakedneſſe and ſhame ſhould appeare.
4. In the 2. Sam. 10 4. When Han…n the King of Amon had cut off the garments of Davids ſervants in the middle, even to their buttockes, &c. and ſent them away, the men were greatly aſhamed, ver. 5. and David, in the ſenſe of this Wicked act, made warre againſt the men of Ammon, and deſtroyed them; ſo ſenſible was David of the wickedneſſe of this act, of diſcovering the …ckedneſſe of his ſervants.
5. 1 Tim. 2.9. The Apoſtle wills, that Women adorne themſelves in modeſt Apparell, with ſhamefaſtneſſe and ſobriety. And we leave it to the Reader to conſider, whether either going naked, or having nothing but their ſhift on, be any wayes according to the modeſty, baſhfulneſſe, and ſobriety, by the Apoſtle commanded in that place.
6. To adde no more, we ſhall conclude with laying before thee the wickedneſſe of this practice, beſides that impudence, and immodeſty, even ſuch as nature and ingenuity it ſelfe obhorres, this practice ſpeaks: Oh! what a fuell is this to the flames of luſt, what accurſed fires of Hell doth it kindle in the hearts of men? Doth not the Apoſtle ſtrictly charge all, to mortifie their earthly members, Col. 3.5. Fornication, uncleanneſſe, inordinate affection, evill concupiſence, &c. nay, doth he not ſay, ver. 6. For theſe things ſake the wrath of God commeth on the children of diſobedience. And 1 Theſ. 4.4. he chargeth every one that he ſhould know how to poſſeſſe his Veſſell in ſanctification and honour, not in the luſt of concupiſence, &c. And what is the horribleneſſe of the temptation of ſuch wicked practiſes? this is ſo loathſome, and nauſ…ous to any ſober apprehenſions, that ſurely it will make the very practiſers of ſuch things, to be a ſtinke in their noſtril… and be looked upon as a ſhame, both to Religion and Humanity, and we are fully certified from ſeverall parts it doth ſo already.
There is but one thing that we imagine can be pretended for this wicked practice; and that is the Prophets going naked upon particular command; we ſhall take that which is the fulleſt Scripture for it,Iſay 20.3. opened. Iſay 20.3. and in that, anſwer all together. Where God ſayes to Iſaiah, Goe and looſe thy ſa…kecloth from off thy loynes and put off thy ſhooes from thy feet, and he did ſo, walking barefeet and naked.
1. We are fully ſatisfied, and we hope we have ſatisfied the Reader in the Perfect Phariſee, pag. 45 46. 47, 48. that the pretences of theſe men to immediate calls, are bu… meere deluſions, and an apiſh imitation of the Prophets. But what theſe Prophets did, was by a true immediate call from God, which we owne, though we abhorre the pretence of theſe men to it, of the lying and falſehood whereof we have informed thee fully.
2. Did either Jeſus Chriſt, or the Apoſtles, when they came to publiſh the everlaſting Goſpel, ever take up ſuch imitation?
3. For the full meaning of that place, underſtand 1. Some will onelyonly underſtand this thing as done in viſion, Hoſ. 1.2. Take unto thee a Wife of Whoredomes. 2. Others conceive it was really acted and with them we rather cloſe. But what was that nakedneſſe? it was not the putting off all their garments, that their ſh…me ſhould appeare; but the putting off their upper garme…ts. For ſo the word naked is often uſed in Scripture, when a man goeth in his inner rayment onelyonly, without upper garments; ſo it is ſaid of Saul, he in a Propheticall rapture ſtrip'd off his cloathes that is, his upper cloathes, (for the Jewes uſed to weare an upper garment upon their long Caſſacke, which was cloſe next their bodies) and lay downe naked before Samuel, 1 Sam. 19.24. So in Iſay, 32.11 the women are commanded to ſtrip themſelves, and make them bare (that is, to put off their bravery and better apparell, &c.) …. This nakedneſſe is the putting off his Propheticall Robe, for the Prophe…s had an upper garment of hayre, to diſtinguiſh them from others. as you may plainely ſee Zach 13.4. neither ſhould they weare a rough garment to deceive. See 2 Kings 1 8. Mat. 3.4. this was ſuch a mantle as dropped from Eliah, 2 Kings 2.13. and thus a Prophet wanting his Propheticall mantle or garment, is ſaid to be naked, and Scripture calls him naked. 3. What was Iſaiah to ſignifie by this? you muſt know, his foretelling the ſhamefull captivity of Ethiopia. ver. 3. was the intent of this command, how the Egyptian Priſoners were to be handled; therefore he was to goe ſtrip'd in that poſture as Captives and Priſoners uſe to be; Now the common uſage of Priſoners, is not to leave them quite naked, but to take away their beſt apparell, and to leave them under ragged cloathes, or ſuch as was neceſſary to cover their ſhame; for can it be imagined that they ſhould be led ſtarke naked from Egypt to Aſſyria ſo many hundred of miles. 4. But to put all out of doubt that it was not meant of being ſtarke naked, can any man be ſo devoyd of ſenſe, as to imagine the good man went ſtarke naked three yeares together? Reade Iſay 20.4. that time which the Prophet went naked, was for three whole yeares.
Therefore let theſe people ſee how vainely they doe bring in the practice of the Prophets, though farre different from theirs; and though acted upon that call from God (which the Quakers but pretend to, doth ſpeake the lying ſpirit they are acted by) how vainely we ſay theſe things are wreſted by them to bolſter them up in ſuch wayes, as will make even a Heathen bluſh that hath but any remaining ſparkes of ingenuity.
Principle 2. Not giving any outward token of Reverence to Magiſtrate, Parent, Maſter, or any other.
Quakers to juſtifie their vvay, caſt dirt upon the Saints in Scripture.We have ſaid ſo much to this, that we need ſay no more, only we muſt obſerve, that rather then he will be convinced by Scripture light, this man cares not to charge the chiefeſt of Saints with ſin in this caſe, but that it was no ſin in them, that Scripture will fully ſpeake, Rom. 13.7. Render to all their due, tribute to whom tribute is due, honour to whom honour. So that as there are ſome to whom tribute is diſtinguiſhingly due; there are alſo ſome to whom honour is due alſo, as we have proved at large, Perfect Phariſee pag. 33. 34. to which the Reader may obſerve he anſwereth nothing.
But he goes on with his ridiculous application of Scripture, viz. that of the Commandement, Thou ſhalt not bow downe or worſhip, which is evidently ſpoken of adoring graven Images made with hands, and this is Naylers text, againſt giving outward tokens of honour to Magiſtrates or Parents, as though they were Idols: as ridiculouſly doth he alſo cite that Text, Pro. 25.26. A righteous man falling downe before the wicked, is as a troubled Fountaine; which ſpeaks onelyonly the falling, periſhing, cruſhing of the Saints by ungodly men, which is like filth or mud ſtird up in a Fountaine,
A. P. his Annotations anſwered.There onelyonly remains the learned Annotation of A. P. Sure A. P. had ſome great crotchet in his head, that he muſt needs ſtop it in the Margent, with his name at the bottome; ſure tis ſome demonſtration. But what is it? There is a Power without Perſons, becauſe the Keepers of the Liberties of England were no Perſons. We aske him, Were the Keepers of the Liberties of England, no body? And was this honourable no body ſet up by the authority of Parliament, againſt whom it ſhould be Treaſon to act? But what is this to make Government without Governors; Power without Perſons to manage it? Were not the Parliament Governors? or were the Parliament men who were the ſupreame Governors, Were not they Perſons? what were they? But what becomes of the Juſtices of Peace, will they be content to be turned out of their being by A. P. But ſeriouſly A. P. if there be Government without Governors, who ſhall puniſh ſin? who ſhall make Laws? who ſhall preſerve the Peace? ſhall Government? when it is in no bodies hands? But let him leave his wild notion, and look upon 1 Pet. 2.13. Submit your ſelv…s, to, &c. whether the King as Supreame, or unto Governors, as unto them that are ſent by him. And Rom. 13.4.6. he is the Miniſter of God to thee, they are the Miniſters of God attending on this very thing, and there he will learn that him and them, and he and they, doe ſignifie not things, but Perſons in the power, not Government but Governors; ſo that we leave him amongſt the reſt of his fancies to ſtudy Sir Thomas Moores Eutopia, or Plat…es Common-wealth, where probably he may find a Government without any Perſons to Govern, or be Governed.