Further Discovery of the Quakers, Reply · Principle 3 – Practice 2
Principle 3. That no man muſt have the title of Maſter.
All he replyes to this, is, that we bring the practice of men in the Old Teſtament to diſanull the commands of Chriſt in the New. We give the man leave to lye and rayle, as having nothing elſe to ſay. For if thou look into the Perfect Phariſee, p. 34. 35. thou wilt ſee at leaſt ten Scriptures out of the New Teſtament fully diſcovering the vanity of this Principle, and the lawfulneſſe of calling men Sir or Maſter, beſides the opening of what Chriſt meant in that prohibition, Mat. 23.10. ſo that we need to add no more.
There are foure things that they charge againſt the Miniſtry, to wit, 1. That they love the high places in the Synagogues. 2. That they weare long Robes. 3. That they ſtand praying in the Synagogues. 4. That they Preach for hire.
We dare without boaſting ſay, we have by evident demonſtration from the Scripture ſhown at large, that theſe were the proper guilt of the Phariſees, and no way applicable to the godly Miniſters of England. See Perſ. Phariſee, p. 35. 36. 37. 38. 39. 40. And we are ſaved the labour of further clearing thoſe points, for as much as Nayler returnes nothing of anſwer to what we there layd downe. We onelyonly beg the Reader in theſe points to compare our Book and his together, and we leave it to thee to judge. But as we have all along found nothing but rayling in ſtead of reaſon, and the poyſon of Aſpes under his tongue, in ſtead of the force of reaſon or Scripture; ſo he doth here heap up ſuch a maſſe of bitter revilings, as thou haſt not ſeen: but we leave this evill ſpirit in him to the Lord to rebuke.
In pag. 40. of the Perf. Phariſee, thou wilt find us repeating others of their cavills againſt the Miniſtry, viz. Their having been at Ʋniverſities. 2. Making uſe of an houre-glaſſe. 3. Preaching upon a text. 4. Running to the powers of the World to protect us. 5. Stealing from the Prophets. 6. Not tho…ing. Foure of theſe he anſwers nothing to; for the fifth he repeats that Scripture that is againſt ſtealing the Word of the Lord from their neighbours; as if to name the ſame charge again, were enough to prove it, though we have cleared it in the Perfect Phariſee, That in quoting Scripture we doe but follow the example of Chriſt and the Apoſtles. See Perf. Phariſee, pag. 27. 28. and walke by Scripture rule. And for the ſixth, viz. thouing, we told him, that the not tho…ing all, doth no wayes entrench upon any Attribute o… command of God; and being but an expreſſion of a civill reſpect, as Sir, Maſter, moſt noble, moſt excellent (which the Saints in the New Teſtament uſed) we told him, we ſaw no cauſe why the ſame freedome in our dialect might not be uſed. Had he excepted any thing againſt theſe, we ſhould have anſwered him.The Quakers make the pure language to vvhichwhich the Saints are redeemed, to be, vvhen they begin to Thou all men. And for that pure language, which he ſayes the Saints are redeemed unto, we cannot but wonder at the lowneſſe of the mans conceptions in the things of God, to think the pure language to which God reſtores them, is to make them ſay, thou and thee. Oh! the blindneſſe of theſe men in the things of Chriſt; for that pure language, Zeph. 3.9. imports, the peoples deliverance from Idolatrous worſhip, ſhall no more call upon their Idols, nor call God by the name of their Idols, Hoſ. 2.16. nor liſpe the language of Aſhdod. Neh. 13.24. but call upon the name of the Lord, and ſerve him with one conſent. Having gone through theſe things in our Perfect Phariſee, we proceeded, pag. 41. to ſome conſiderations of their practiſes.
Practice 1. Quaking.
Excep. 5 For trembling and quaking we owne it; but for grovelling on the ground, and foaming at the mouth, are lyes and ſlanders of your owne inventing.
Reply. Quakers grovelling upon the earth when in their fits of poſſeſſion.Are they lyes and ſlanders? Was not Iohn Gilpin a Quaker? and when a Quaker he tells you thus, in the Book called Quakers Shaken, p. 5. I could not ſtand upon my feet, but was conſtrained to fall downe upon the bed, where I howled and cryed, as is uſuall with them, in a terrible and hiddeous manner, to the great aſtoniſhment of my Family. Pap 7. further, In the time of Iohn Audlands ſpeaking, I was from the power within me drawne from the chaire upon which I ſate, and throwne upon the ground in the midſt of the company, where I lay all night; all which time I was turned from my backe to my belly, and ſo backe again, &c. Is not this grovelling upon the ground? How dare this man ſay they are lyes? Nay Atkinſon, who would ſeem to anſwer that Booke, in his pittifull Pamphlet, pag. 11. ſayes, he owned it to be of God. So in Quakers Shaken, pag. 10. he ſayes, I was caſt upon the ground, and lying upon my belly, I was forced to licke the duſt. Atkinſon denies it not, but tells him, this is his portion. And how can Nayler ſay, that theſe things are lyes and ſlanders? We ſhall add but one more, as to their foaming at mouth we ſhall give you this account under the hand of Mr. Moore Miniſter at Kellet in Lancaſhire.
OVt of the Quakers comming to diſturbe our Congregation, fell into a trance, her belly puffed up, her ſides extended her backbone thruſt out, her ſhoulders ſtretched up, her whole body as a bladder when it is in blowing: Whereupon I ſent a mayd to George Fox, to tell him, he had indeed alleaged many Scriptures for quaking and trembling but withall to aske him, what Scriptures he could ſhew one for ſwelling of the body, or foaming at the mouth: or where did he ever reade of any in thoſe poſtures, ſave onelyonly ſuch as were poſſeſſed with Devils: He denyed that any of theirs ſwelled, till ſhe was pointed out, and then he confeſſed it; upon which ſhe asked him, whether lying was a ſin? becauſe he had before denyed that he committed any ſin. Will. Moore.
Reade and judge what thou now thinkeſt of theſe mens actings and lyings.
As for our large diſcovery of the nature of quaking, owning it where there was any reall appearance of God to the Prophets, and ſhewing a clear difference betwixt theſe div…ne rep…ures, and the Satanicall quakings of theſe men, he anſwers nothing at all, but onelyonly cavils at a word.
Excep. 2 That we ſay, They call their Quaking their great perfection; which he ſayes is falſe, &c.
Reply. To which we anſwer. We cannot but look upon that as the great perfection in the eyes of theſe men which they doe ſo much cry up, and ſo much deſire as ſuch a pretious attainement.W. C. One of us doth know, that Cap Ward, and Will. Cartmell, did expreſſe their deſires of it, and their hopes to come under that condition. Henry Houſeman ſaid, ſpeaking concerning quaking, he was not come up to that perfection yet. We might adde more; but Iohn Gilpin tells you in Quakers Shaken, p. 5 that he did earneſtly deſire that he might fall into quaking and trembling, apprehending that he ſhould thereby attaine to the immediate diſcoveries of God unto him. And is not that perfection? Why doth Nayler ſtill charge us with ſlanders?
Practice 2. Rayling.
Except. He would endeavour from Scripture to lay downe a warrant for his rayling; and his reaſon is, becauſe Chriſt called the Iewes the children of the Devil. &c. The Apoſtle cals men dogs, wolves, &c.
Reply. 1 We charged them with rayling at thoſe perſons they had never ſeen before; telling them, they were Devils, damned, they ſaw the Devil in their faces, ſo that this appeares to be perfect rayling; becauſe not knowing the perſons or actions of any ſuch men, nor any particular ſinne by them, yet they let fly their dreadfull cenſures at randome. Thus we inſtanced in our Perfect Phariſee p. 46. in their rayling at Mr. H. T. Merchant of Newcaſtle, calling him a Prieſt, &c. and Gorge Fox rayling at Mr. Nichols in Carlile, p. 48. telling him he was an hypocrite, though he had never ſeen his face, nor knew his name. Now how is this bottom'd upon Chriſts example, or the Apoſtles, who gave ſuch expreſſions to none but ſuch as they had particular knowledge of, as to their ſinne, giving a reaſon for ſuch titles.
2. Thoſe titles were given to wicked Herod, and to the teachers of falſe Doctrines, Phil. 3. 2 Pet. 2. and we have fully cleared it we hope to every mans conſcience, who is not filled with errour and prejudice, that we are neither reproachers of Chriſt, or his Doctrine, but according to our talent, have found mercy of the Lord to be faithfull in carrying on the intereſt of the Lord Ieſus; and therefore we cannot but looke upon it as their ſinfull practice, in powring out ſuch language upon us.
3. He that doth but reade the Scriptures, ſhall finde, that this is not the ordinary language of Chriſt and his Apoſtles, it was very ſeldome, and very ſolemne; and he that doth but compare this, with the practice of quakers, ſhall ſee a vaſt difference: for it is their common practice, and ſuch words are as familiar as any they uſe, as thou art damned, and I ſee the Devill in thy face; nay, they are their uſuall firſt ſalute to all they meet withall. Was this the Apoſtles way? take but any of their Books, and compare them with any of Pauls Epiſtles, and as thou wilt ſee a ſpirit of ſweetneſſe and meekneſſe in his, ſo thou wilt obſerve ſuch a continuall froathing out of paſſion and bitternes in theſe men, as will lay them naked, to be acted by a ſpirit vaſtly different from that of Paul or any of the Apoſtles of the Lord Ieſus.
4. But ſhall the holy zeale of Chriſt and his Apoſtles be wreſted to be made a patronage to their malitious raylings? Doe they not by this means, labour to take away the ſinfulneſſe of that rayling, which the Apoſtle tells you is the fruit of the fleſh, and of which they that are guilty, ſhall never enter into the Kingdome of God, 1 Cor. 6.9. But we referr thee for further information in this to the Perfect Phariſee, pag 44. 45.