Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 4 · Chapter 4
CHAP. IV.
Of the Church-Representative, and its power.
MR. H. We have dispatched the first member of the controversie, Survey, par. 1. c. 13. p. 229, 230.That the power of the Keys doth not appertain to the Guides of the visible Church; take it as totum genericum, or universale.
Ans. The first member is so dispatched, as the power of the Keys is by Mr. H. dispatched and banished out of its due seat and subject, and lodged in the congregation of redeemed visible Saints, sometimes onelyonly unofficed Brethren, sometimes the Church of visible Saints, confederate men and women.
2. No man of ours (let him be named, if Mr. H. or any for him can name him) ever said, that the Keys appertain to the guides of the visible Church, taken as totum genericum & universale. For the Guides of the visible Church is, to all our Divines, the Guides of the Catholick Universal Church, made up as an interal Body of all Churches, National, Provincial, Presbyterial and Congregational all the earth over. And to make this integral Universal Body Genus, and the congregational Church Species, and Genus praedicatur de specie, is, as if this were our Logick, The Church of Boston is the whole integral Church of all the earth, made up of National, Provincial, Presbyterial Churches. A Monster!
Mr. H. There be two things, wherein stand the qualifications of members that are Commissioners: 1. Gifts and fitness. 2. Delegation, which is the formale, as that they are sent by the Churches. The Churches, if they follow the pattern, must send, beside Pastors, Teachers and Elders, learned and holy men, that may personate and represent the whole Church. This is made the hinge and casting difference betwixt us and Papists, whereby our men vindicate the liberty and power of the Brethren, for all have definitive voices, not the Pope and his Proctors onelyonly.
Ans. How can Mr. H. speak of a pattern of Oecumenick The unofficed Brethren are not by our Divines those that have a decisive voice in Councels. A new question between us and Papists. Mr. H. par. 1. c. 13. p. 230. The paths to these general Councels have been so long disused that they are almost grown out of sight, & as he somtimes speaks in a like case, the highwayes are unoccupied. Pag. 232. By the space of. 300 years after our Saviour, there was not the name of an Occumenick Councel heard of in the world Whittaker cont. 3. q. 3. c. 1. de Concil. Nostra vero sententi… est non solos praelatos habere jus definiendi in Conciliis, sed homines quosvis idoneos (non ait laicos) eligi posse. Willet Synops. papis. cont. 3. gener. q. 3. p. 125. What an absurd saving is it—that the Bishop is the onelyonly Pastor. The Fathers of Basil. Who doubteth but the government of the Church is committed to others than onelyonly Apostles? Prof. Leyden in Synops. purio. Theolog. disp. 49. th. 29. Verum tamen ab iis (Laicis pi…s) in publica hac act one consilium & a bi…ium potius quam suffragium requiritur. Vid. th. …1. C…lvin l 4. Inst. …. 1. Romano pontifici & ejus satellitibus totum deferunt. Com. Act. 15. v 12. Plebis modestia h…nc colligitur, quod postquam Apostolis ac Reliquis Doctoribus j…m ge misit, nunc quo que subscribit corum decreto, pastorum Tyranni… est excludere populum. B…us loc 43. q. 21. Jus—Ecclesiis—conscio & comprobante grege. Vid. q. 23. Non exclusis L …. &c. T…en. Syntag. de Concil. disp. 1. q. 18. p. 619, 610. Qui solis Episcopis sententiae dictionem. vindica…, iis tum Apostolici Concilii, Act. 15. 6. Tum Nicaeni & Constantinopolitani primi authoritate refelluntur—Ne que negari potest quin de causa fidei ad omnes pertineat dicere qui prophetae sunt dono & vocatione, 1 Cor. 14, 32. See …. Theolog. Christian. …. 1. c. 28. Piscat. loc. 23. the 29. On the contrary are the Rhemist. on 1 Tim. 5. sect. 13. Bellarm. de Concil. lib. 1. c. 19. Cornel. à Lap. Lorinus, Act. 15.Councels, and claim kindred to our Divines against Papists? …or Mr H. mocks such Councels. 2. Mr. H. cannot name the man of our Divines, except Separatists, who draw nigher to Socinians and Arminians in these points, than to our Divines, who 1. Ever taught, that the male-Churches of a congregation, are the onelyonly Churches who send Commissioners to an Occumenick Councel? which Mr. H. saith hath neither warrant in Scripture nor in Antiquity for 300 years after Christ. 2. The controversie between Papists and our men, was, Whether onelyonly Bishops soli Praelati, say Whittaker, Willet, Professors of Leyden, Calvin, Bucanus, Tilenus, Windelin, have a decisive voice, and ought not also Pastors, Doctors, Elders learned and holy, to have a decisive voice in Synods? And whether the people should be excluded from debating, reasoning, consenting; for Papists debar Laicks as profane, and say, If such Beasts touch the Mountain, and meddle with holy things, they are to be thrust through with a dart. But Mr. H. his hinge of a question is, Whether onelyonly unofficed Brethren, members of the male congregation, are the onelyonly members of an Oecumenick Councel, or with them officers, but as sent by those male-societies, otherwise they want the essential form of members, according to our Divines judgement? He is a great stranger in the Writings of our Divines, who so guesseth at a new question, though I judge Mr. H. hath read them diligently. See what the Jesuits of Rhemes, Bellarmine, Cornel. à Lap. Lorinus and others, if ever they dream of such a hinge of a controversie.
M. H. The representative body is but a part of the Catholick Church, not the whole of it, and represents the whole—what the commissioners do by their delegation, it is all one, as if the body did it; the Keys cannot then be firstly in it.
Ans. It is a mistake wide enough, there is a twofold representing.
1. The Apostles in receiving the Keys, Matth. 16. Iohn 20, Matth. 28. represented all officers, even those not born, but they had no commission from unborn men. And so August. Serm. 13. de verbis domini. Chrysost. homil. 55. in Matth. 16. Hieronym. l. 1. contra. Iovian. and our Divines, Calvin, Pareus, Luther, Melancthon, Willet, &c. say, that the Keyes in Peter, who represented all the Apostles and faithful Pastors, were given to all Ministers. Now if Mr. R. say that the Keyes were given first to this representative body Apostolick, let Mr. H. or any man beat him with strong arguments, and that is a good revenge.
3. These whom the Churches, (not the male-congregations, as Mr. H. saith) send as Commissioners to a Synod, are not to be looked Mr. Cotton Key. Two sorts of Representatives not considered by, Mr. H. Commissioners neither carry the peoples conscience to the Synod, not does their Commission give them a new office.upon.
As 1. If the Churches were resolved aforehand how far they will follow them; for why then (saith Mr. Cotton) do they send to the Synod for light and counsel?
2. Neither as if they were sent to carry the faith and consciences to the Synod, and the people in and through them did teach Synodicè, and the people must follow their determination, be it right or wrong. And so it is a wide mistake, to say what Delegates do or say, it is all one, or the like reason (saith Mr. H.) as if the Represented did, or said it. For if the Synod say the Gospel is not the word of God, the Church did not say either personally (for that is impossible) or legally the same: only the Churches send them to pray & enquire the mind of God from his word, and engage they shall follow them, in as far as they follow Christ.
Nor is delegation the formalis ratio of determining synodically, it is only a necessary condition of determining, and of synodical judging.
Obj. But Mr. R. saith Amen to this distinction of Mr. Parker.
Ans. True; these two, fitness and gifts, together with a commission, make a man a commissioner and messenger of the Church; but delegation makes him not a formal Definer and a Judge: nor do the Churches send them as officers, but as such eminently able and faithful men, who have hazarded their lives for the cause, as Act. 15. 25. and they determine as such eminently holy and able officers; their delegation is a thing of meer order, because all cannot be sent, nor doth it create them of new officers, nor yet such eminent officers, for they were both these before, only their delegation puts them in an actual orderly capacity to determine formally, Ut approximatio ligni aridi ad ignem non est formalis ratio comburendi.
Mr. H. Mr. R. l. 1. p. 305. to 309. runs all upon this, the power Par. 1. p. 231, 232.of the keyer, by order of nature, is only in the Catholick representative body: but the power of the Keyes was before there was any Representative some 300. years, when there was no Oecumenick Councel, and since the Churches give their power and officers to the Assembly, they had that power before the Assembly.Due Right of Presb. Keys of the King d. c. 7. p. 47, 48. The whole body of al church guides is the first subject of the power of the Keys in its latitude of that power, and the first subject of such a special power is a Synod.
Ans. Read from c. 10. sect. 10. & p. 289. to p. 346, 347. where I speak of the Catholick Church. I say, only that such a synodical power of the Keyes, as is dogmatick, especially for light and peace, as Mr. Cotton speaketh, is first by order of nature in the Oecumenick Councel: the doubting and contending Churches cannot bind; Ecclesia dubitans non docet, Ecclesia errans non judicat, Ecclesia contendens non liga…n, on solvit, for the doubting, the erring, the contending of Churches are no ordinances of God, and erring and contending Churches cannot heal themselves; and therefore the healing power is seated by Christs appointment in the synodical Church, which is more diffused and stronger, as is clear, when the Churches of Antioch and Iudea are broken, ren…and sick, the wisdom of God, Act 15. hath appointed that these should meet in a Synod of the select and choicest parts, Apostles and godly Elders; Ergo, the healing power of the Keys must be first in them.
2. Mr. R. runs not, but ass…rts lently, that power of the keys in binding and loosing, and in opening and shutting heaven in the latitude of preaching, and censures, Mat. 16. was not before Christ gave it to the Apostles, the then Representative of all the faithful guides to be in the Church christian to the worlds end, and this grant was made to Peter and the Apostles, not as to such, private men, Simon, such …ishers, but by evidence of Scripture truth.
2. The testimony of all sound Antiquity.
3. The judgement of Protestant Divines.
4. Canons of Councells.
5. The Doctrine of sounder ancient School-men and Popish Doctors, Occam, Alen…is, Almain, Gerson, Bon…venture, &c. not only not 300. years after, but before Christs death, and confirmed before his Ascension to heaven. That ever Mr. R. said that the power of the Keys in their latitude of binding and loosing was in an Oecumenick Councel, a Representative of formally sending Churches, and a body of formally sent Commissioners, is utterly denied, and no where to be seen in any book that ever he wrote.
Such as cite him at random would remember (3) that I teach that the power of the Keys, 1. In its latitude is first given to the Apostles, Mat. 28. 19, 20. Mat. 16. 18, 19. Iohn 20. 21, 22. Mark 16. 15. Act. 18. as the only then Catholick representative body, sustaining the person of all officers to the end of the world, and so the first formal subject of the power of the Keys in its latitude, is not either the congregation or congregational Eldership, nor the Presbytery, or Synod, all these are but parts, and to make a quarter, or a part of the body of the Sun, the first and adequate subject of light, and a quarter, or a part of the body of the Element of water the first and adequate subject of the cold and moistness, since these qualities are kindly in the rest of the quarters and parts of the body of the Sun, and the body of the Element, were bad Philosophy. So the adequate first complete formal subject of this power must be the integral Catholick body of the guides, as existing in their several Churches; for this power is as kindly and natively in the guides of this Church, as in the guides of that Church, and equally in all.
2. The power of the Keys as this power synodicall is considered either in the breadth of synodical power, and so to condemn A power synodical is but a part of the keys, and was not before a Synod had being.Catholick errors and heresies is in an Oecumenick Councel, and where the local distance of visible Churches is greater and wider, the external visible communion in being edified or scandalized is less, and less use there is of censures. A General Councel being onelyonly necessary for the optimum esse, the most Catholick union and peace of the Catholick Church: & that such a Councel is an ordinance of God Mr. Cot. proves from Act. 15.
3. As the power is narrower, it becomes narrower then Oecumenical, and descends to National, to Provincial, to Presbyterial, to Congregational; and all these are parts only.
4. Though the Churches send Officers to the Synod, and have some power of the Keyes in their kind before the Synods have being; yet Mr. H. can hence conclude nothing of his purpose against me; for it follows not, Ergo, the male-congregations have the complete power of the Keys in its latitude, before the Synods have being; nor does it follow, that congregational Inferior churches confer not properly a superior power to the churches, …y have a synodical power by the institution of God, Act. 15.Churches, or Presbyterial have that complete power, before Synods have being, nor do they confer (if we speak accurately) a synodical power of the Keys, they only send messengers who are materials of the Synod; but the synodical power is in its parts scattered in the Churches of the Province and Nation, as Immes of Gold in divers parts of the Earth; and the synodical power comes from the institution of Christ, who promises the holy Ghost, and fulfils his promise, as Mat. 28. 20. compared with Act. 15. 28. Nor can the scattered Churches bring forth of themselves any synodical power of the Keyes when they are met in a Synod, the promise made to such as are gathered together in his name, does the business; and therefore that is soon blown away. It is unpossible that a proper quality can be either in nature, or time, before its subject th… gives it be…ng: but the power of the Keyes was 300. years before there was any General Councel in the world. For this proves only that some certain power, to wit, formally synodical, cannot be, until the Synod be.
2. Grave Divines judge the Synod, Act. 15. to be a General Councel; but though it were not so, it differs not in nature from a General Councel, and so must partake of its natural qualities, as the natural properties of a man are in a same man. Now beside that, Christ gave the complete power of the Keys to the Apostles, be sent them as his Father sent him, as a Prophet to remit and retain sins, Joh. 20. to be a teaching and baptizing ministry, Mat. 28 20. which he never gave to the unofficed To define in Councels is an act of officers. Mr. Dickson, Expos. Mat. 28. v. 19. doct. 6. Par. I. p. 232, 233.male-Church. Christ also appointed an Assembly with them in Galilee, and keeped it, Mat. 26. 32. Mat. 28. 16.
Mr. H. To define in Councels is no proper work in officers.
5. For so sai…h D. Ames, no Pastor of the primitive Church, and few of the after ages should have fulfilled their Pastoral charge.
2. That which is common …o the Brethren is not proper to Pastors.
3. Whitak. It's open popery to take it from Breth …n.
Ans. Ames is miscited, he states the question, whether only Bishops have decisive votes. Though it were proper to Bishops and Pastors, yet it may be (saith Ames) communicated Ames. Bellar. E…rvat. To. 2. c. 2. An soli praelati majores, i. e. Episcopi habent jus suffragii ordinariè, ex privilegio & consuetudine etiam Cardinal. Abbates. Bellar. Affirmat nos negamus. Ames. To. 2. c. …. Th. 1. p. 4. Si esset proprium Episcoporum & Pastorum, nihil prohibet quin possit cum alii, Theologis praesertim Ministris … Deo institutis communica…i. Calv. Act. 15 6. Gu…lth. Act. 15. 22. Calv. sic non enim dicit Lucas totam Ecclesiam congregata…, sed eos qui doctrinae & judicio pollebant, & qui ex …atione officii hujus causae legitimi e…nt Judices; fieri quidem o…est, ut coram plebe habita su…ri… disputatio: sed ne ad tractandam causam vulgus promiscuè fuisse admissum putemus: Lucas disertè Apostol os & Presbyteros nominat. Gualther. ibid. homil. 103. Non ita dominium & imperium sibi vindicarunt (Apostoli & Seniores) ut populum ab eorum cognitione excluderent …ive arcerent, quae ex aequo ad totam Ecclesiam pertinebant—in populo modestia est—quod veritati omnes libenter cederent; haec Gualther. Bullinger. Act. 15. 6. convenerunt Apostoli] palam hoc loco Admonemur ad Apostolicos viros pertinere rerum ad fidem quaestionem. Bez…. Act. 15. 1…. Multitudin is autem nomine intellige non totam Ecclesiam utpote quaen…ndum esset tota Advocat…, sed totum Apostolorum & Sensorum coetum, ut v. 6.—unde apparet quae sit yera legitimae & Apostolicae Synodi ratio, &c.to other Ministers of God.
2. It is not a Pastoral, but an Officiall act that we contend for.
3. It is a poor question, for if learned godly men be chosen, if they be not Doctors and ruling Elders, they should be such.
4. The Martyr hath a learned discourse, 1 King. 12. De Schism…te, and hath nothing of the question: but from Act. 15. he condemns Papists, who exclude Laicks from Synods, for Constantine subscribed the sixth Synod, Basilius the eighth Synod; nor is it Popery, except Calvin maintain Popery, for he gives to the people consenting, to the Apostles and Elders judging: and so doth Gualther, nor doth Whitaker call it popery to seclude Laickes from defining, but …rom speaking, discerning, consenting. I wonder that Mr. H. is so confident in this matter.
Mr. H. Arg. 3. If the power of the Keyes belong firstly to the Oecumenick Councel, then it belongs to all others by vertue of that, risibility agr…es first to man to Richard, John, not as these individual men, but as th…y have the nature of man: hence there can no power of the keys (as ord…nation, excommunication, &c) be put forth but by vertue of an Oecumenick Councel giving in their influence first to that work; which is contrary to the evidence of Scripture, and the experience of all ages. The proposition is proved by the rule of foreign, if none have this power, but only this subject, then this power can go no farther then this, for this foreign, and foreign, require.
Ans. …. Mr. H. wrongs the Reader, who sets not down my answer to this argument: for p. 299. I say, the power of the keys is not given to the Catholick Presbytery, as to the first subject, to be a mean of edification in an ordinary way but only in an extraordinary and occasional way in these things, wh…ch concern the power of jurisdiction belonging to the whole Catholick Church. By Extraordinary, How the whole body of Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, Doctors, Elders are the first immediate subject of the whole power of the Keyes.I mean not that which is against, or above a particular law of God, but that which rarely falls out. Hence I never make an Oecumenical Councel the first subject of the power of the Keys in its latitude, as man is the first only subject of risibility, the element of water of cold and heat, for so as only man is risible, and Peter visible for mans nature, so only an Oecume nick Councel should firstly and principally excommunicate and ordain Ministers: but I say the just contrary of this, to wit, that an Oecumenick Councel is onelyonly the first and principal subject of that synodical power, or of that certain power, or special power that belongs to an Oecumenick Synod formally convened as such, and so to this or that Oecumenical Councel, because of the common nature of an Oecumenical Councel.
Yea, This special power of the Keyes is but a part, or a certain kind and species of the power of the Keyes in some rare and extraordinary things that belong to the Catholick Church. But we are now disputing of the first seat and subject of the power of the Keyes in general, in the latitude of binding and loosing, opening and shutting the gates of heaven by preaching and censures. And I deny expresly that an Oecumenick Councel is the first subject of the power of the Keyes in this general. And so Mr. H. fights with a shadow. Non concludit negatum. So my Simile is never touched by Mr. H. as pag. 305. The light is first in the whole body of the Sun, as the first and prime subject of light; yet supposing now the received opinion of Astronomers, that the Sun doth exceed the quantity of the Earth 167, it doth not follow, that this or that part of the Sun hath no light in it intrinsecal, but that which is derived from the whole body of the Sun, for then this or that part of the Sun should have light derived to it (extrinsecally) from some other.
Now the power of the Keys is in the whole Catholick Body of Apostles, Pastors, Doctors, Elders, all the world over, as they act respectively in Congregations, Presbyteries and Synods of all sorts, so that one part of the Catholick integral body of the Catholick Church, for example, hath not that power of the Keys due to them, derived from the Presbytery to the congregational Eldership, or from the Synod derived to the Presbytery, and so forth, by either ascending or descending: But when Christ gave the whole power of the Keys to the body of the Apostles, Mat. 28. 19. & 16. 19. Ioh. 20. 21, 22, 23 Mar. 16. 15. they were the Body Representative (I never call them an Oecumenick Councel) and did immediately represent any Apostles to be chosen, Matthias, Paul, Evangelists, Pastors, Doctors, Elders, that were to be, even to the second coming of Christ, and he promiseth his Ministerial Spiritual presence to them all immediately, Mat. 28. 20 Go teach and baptize—lo, I am with you always, (administring Word, Seals, Censures, according to the Rule) even to the end of the world. Now the Apostles were not to live preaching and baptizing to the end of the world, therefore the promise must be made to them all, though not yet born. Now we reade not of deriving of any power to Synods, Presbyteries, Congregations, by mediation of Churches, for Christ instituted Synods, Mat. 28. 16. Act. 1. 12, 13, 14, &c. & 6. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. & 13. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. & 15. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, &c. and that immediately he instituted Presbyterial Churches, Act. 2. & 4. 9. & 5. 21, 42. and Churches congregational to meet in one place, 1 Cor. 11. 17. And as one part of the Element of water (suppose we make 24 parts of all) hath not natural moistness and cold from the other 20 parts, but hath it as intrinsecally, without the intervening influence of the other twenty three parts, as they have: So the Presbyterial and Congregational Eldership have as primarily, intrinsecally, immediately in their sphere and orb the Keys due to them, according to the proportion of the associated body, as the whole integral-Catholick Presbytery and Church hath, whether in an Oecumenick Councel, or out of it.
It is then a wide mistake in Mr. H. to tell us, If an Oecumenical Councel be the first subject of the Keys, (as it is not) that there can be no act of power in ordaining of Ministers, in excommunicating of delinquents, but by vertue of an Oecumenical Councel giving their influence first to that work. For if the meaning be (as it must be) that a General Councel must prove an act, and put forth some actual Mandate, commanding such a man to be ordained an officer, such a delinquent to be excommunicate, else the Churches cannot proceed: for to take Mr H. his own comparison, Richard or Ioshua cannot be a man, or apt to laugh, except the abstract nature of man give in his influence to the work. And since Mr. H. and his Brethren make the male-congregation M. H. Survey, par. 1. c. 11. p. 186. Way of the Churches, c. 1. sect. 1. pro. 3. M. Cotton keys. c. 7. p. 31.abstracted from this or that congregation, the first formal subject of the whole power of the Keys, what influence (I ask) doth the so abstract congregation give to the work of Ordination and Excommunication in a particular congregation? Abstracted natures do not send abroad mandates to all the congregations all the world over, before they can ordain, censure, or excommunicate. If it be said, this agrees to the nature of a congregation in general to ordain and excommunicate, but there needs no other actual influence of a command to come from the congregation in general to this individual congregation for their using of the Keys. True, there needs not, by the like, that any mandate pass from the Oecumenick Councel in general, to this or that individual Oecumenick Councel in the exercise of its Synodical acts.
But (saith Mr. H.) if the Oecumenick Councel be the first formal subject of the power of the Keys, then inferiour Courts cannot ordain nor excommunicate without a warrant, and actual command from them.
Ans. This is feeble: for beside that the Oecumenick Councel Inferior courts may use the keys without any influence of a command from a general Councel.is not at all any such formal first subject, as is said, its a naughty consequence; for though power of life and death be in King and Parliament as in the first subject, it follows not that an inferiour Judge or free City cannot put to death notorious Traitors and Murtherers all England over, without the influence of some actual Mandate from King and Parliament to the putting to death of every Traitor. So when Christ gave power of Word, Seals and Censures to the Apostles, as representing all officers, (say we) or as representing all believers (saith Mr. H.) it follows, that officers and the male-Church cannot administer Word, Seals, Censures, without the influence of a new actual command from the Apostles, who did represent all such to whom Jesus Christ gave the Keyes, by this arguing of Mr. H.
Nor does Mr. H. his first deduction follow, that if a General Councel be such a subject (as it is not) that therefore the existing Though a general Councel …xist not, yet …he use of the keys ceaseth not in inferior courts.of such a Councel is as necessary as the well-being of the Church. For a Parliamentary power is necessary for England, yet suppose by war, and other invincible impediments, a Parliament could not meet for divers years, yet neither power nor exercise of Justice do cease. So here Synodical power may be, and by the care of the Lord of his House, is continued in lesser Assemblies, though such Councels exist not. But 2. the Antecedent being true, the Consequence is null.
Nor is the power of the Keyes in its latitude, as is said, either firstly or onelyonly, and so not perfectly in this Councel, but firstly and intrinsecally in the whole integral Presbytery all the earth over.
Nor is it necessary that this General Councel, though it were the first subject of the Keys, always attain all its end in the use of the Keyes. For the male-Church void of Pastors cannot attain all its end, to wit, the pastoral preaching, the dogmatick and official sentencing of delinquents, the right tendring of the seals, yet is the male-Church the onelyonly formal subject of this power to Mr. H.
Mr. R. said well, that a General Councel can hardly excommunicate Hardly can a general Councel excommunicate a National Church.a whole National Church: for it could hardly be known to them, but many are not obstinate in the National Heresie and Scandal, who through weakness and fear of persecution dare not confess. And its enough that a National Church may be declared to be no Church: as Moses removed the Tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, Exod. 33. 7. and Paul turned away from the blaspheming Jews Acts. 13. 45, 46. and yet neither the one nor the other is the excommunicating of a National Church, for the word of the Covenant remained in the Nation of the Jews, after Paul and Barnabas turned from them, and preached to the Gentiles, Iam. 1. 1. Heb. 1. 1. & 3. 6. & 10. 25. 1 Pet. 1 1. 1 Ioh. 1. 1. & 2. 1, 2. Nor is our Brethrens new censure Non-communion of Churches, as our Brethren use it, is not warrantable.of non communion of Churches so warrantable. For,
1. The removing of the Candlestick seems to be a judgment inflicted onelyonly by Jesus Christ; and they who declare such a society to be no Church, must have the warrant of Christ going before, and really removing the Gospel. For if the Word, the contract of marriage, and seals, remain there in their substance, they can only (the profession thereof not ceasing) declare them an impure and corrupt Church, but not to be no Church.
2. The doctrine or practise of a Church may be erroneous, hurtful See the paper of Accommodation at the Synod at Westminster, anno 1644. Sept. 13.and destructive to holiness, as that of Pergamus and Thyatira, and they defend it; and yet remaining sound in other points, they cease not to be a people in covenant with God, and they cannot be declared no Church, and the Ministerial acts of baptizing invalid, and to be reiterate, as is clear in the Church of the Jews, though Idolatrous, and in the Scribes and Pharisees, corrupt the same way in practise and doctrine, whom Christ commandeth to hear, Mat. 23. 1, 2. far more for a sinful act of Jurisdiction, leave they not off to be a Church.
3. How can it be clear to a sister-Church, that there are not there, the Church being above a thousand, or many Churches, (for many Churches may be unchurched as well as one) a few names that out of weakness onelyonly are silent at the sinful doctrine and practise of the Church.
4. Its hard to say the Church of Rome, in which there are the matrimonial Tables, the Old and New Testament, valid Baptism, and Salvation to a covenanted people by the fundamentals preached, is no Church, though communion with such a Whore be unlawful.
Mr. H. If the Churches refuse the sentence of Excommunication Par. 1. c. 13. p. 234, 235.inflicted by the Court O…cumenical, it can never prevail to attain its end.
Ans. Ergo, its unlawful. It follows not, the Churches, the Excommunication attaineth not its end alway; Ergo, is not lawful. M. H. so, Nor doth the Gospel ever attain its saving end; Ergo, its not the Gospel.person excommunicate refuse to abstain from the society of one excommunicate, and excommunication hardens and humbles not; Ergo, its unlawful: So the Gospel is the savour of death unto death, 2 Cor. 2. 16, a Rock of stumbling, 1 Pet. 2. 8. and prepared vengeance, 2 Cor. 10. 6. to some; Ergo, its not the Word of God. Many such consequences have been drawn, to make Mr. R. his way odious to the godly. But I desire to contend for truth.
Mr. H. To the Ministery and Catholick Guides of that visible Church, hath Christ committed the Keys as the first subject, to the which he hath given his Word, Ordinances, Sacraments, Ministery primarily. This is Mr. R. his in terminis determinate conclusion beyond all gainsaying. But to the Oecumenick Councel, as the Representative of all Churches, God hath not primarily given his Ministery, Word, Sacraments, Ordinances; then an Oecumenick Representive Church hath not the Keys given to it as to the first subject. The Assumption onelyonly needs proof. 1. There was no such Councel for 300 years after Christ. 2. Councels consist primarily of Pastors and Elders; then must Ministers be sent to feed Ministers. 3. Word and Seals are not primarily attended in Councels, but scanning of controversies.
Ans. 1. I complain of unfaithful repeating of my words. The title is not of Oecumenick Councels, but chap. 10. sect. 10. pag. 289. Of the communion of the visible catholick Church. To the Proposition I answer; To the Ministery and Guides of that Catholick visible Church hath Christ committed the Keys, as to the first subject, unto which he hath given his Word, Ordinances, Sacraments, Ministery primarily.
This neither is conclusion nor principle of mine, but a same Mr. H. sorc… upon Mr. R. a proposition as a principle in terminis beyond gainsay, which was never in M. R. his mind nor bookand curtailed proposition of Mr. H. My words are these, cap. 10. sect. 10. pag. 289.
To this Church catholick visible hath the Lord given a Ministery, and all his Ordinances of Word and Sacraments principally and primarily, and to the Ministery and Guides of this Catholick Church visible hath the Lord committed the Keyes as to the first subject, and for the visible Church catholick, including also the invisible Church as for the object and end, hath he given his Ordinances and the power of his Keys; and the Ministery and Ordinances are not given to this or this congregation which meeteth ordinarily in one place. So the Proposition which I own from these words, must be this.
To the Church catholick visible as to the first subject primarily, and as for the l…st end and object, hath the Lo…d given all his Ordinances, Word, Sacraments, Ministery. This is mine in terminis. And this also: To the Guides of this Catholick Church, not of a single congregation, hath the Lord committed the Keys as to the first formal subject, but for the Church catholick visible and invisible, as for the end and object, that they may be saved.
But Mr. H, his proposition is not mine, he devised it himself, and its false, gainsaid by Mr. R. to wit, To the Guides of that catholick visible Church hath the Lord committed the Keys as to the first subject, unto which he hath given his Word, Ordinances, Sacraments, Ministery primarily. For,
1. I know no Guides of any Church on earth, to whom the Lord hath given the Seals primarily, for God hath given the Seals primarily to his chosen people, to the Guides secondarily, as they are visible Saints.
2. I know no Ministers of any Church to whom the Lord hath given the Ministery primarily: its a sensless saying.
3. I refer it to the Reader, if such a sensless proposition can be drawn from my words. The Catholick visible Church is neither the subject, nor first subject, but the object and end for which the Keys are given to the Ministers and whole Officers of the Catholick Church visible and invisible. Yea, I demonstrate by many Arguments, that believers are not the subject of the Keys. I say indeed, not the visible Church whereof Magus and Iudas are members, is the prime subject, but the invisible Church is in the Lords intention such a subject of all Ordinances in their saving fruits: but then the first subject is all one with the object and end of God in Predestination.
2. The Assumption is granted, but Mr. H. his probations are naught.
1. There was no General Councels the first 300 years after Christ.
Ans. Mr. Simpson, and other grave Divines say, the Councel Simpson, Cent. 1. c. 1.at Ierusalem, Act. 15. is more worthy the name of an Occumenick Councel, than the Councels of Nice, of Constantinople, of Ephesus, of Chalcedon.
2. Such a Councel is not the first subject of the Keys, but onelyonly of the Synodical Keys in such a General Councel, of the Keys Catholick dispensed.
3. The Apostles, the Representative of all the Guides of the Church, may well stand for a formal Councel Occumenick.
4. The long want of General Councels, through providential The want of gen. Councels through providential impediments proves not that they a…e not Ordinances. English Divin. on Hos. 3. 4. Diod. Hos. 3. 4. Iun. Hos. 3. 4. Nam ex quo Israelitae in Assyriā fuerunt deportati per Shalmanasarem, id est, ab anno sexto Ezekiae ad Christū incarnatum fuerunt anni quasi sexcenti octoginta. Partus com. ib. Zanch▪ com. ib. Dissenting Brethren in their Reasons against Synods, 2 arg. p. 120. The same God that suits his providences to his institutions, would not have failed in what is the most soveraign remedy of all other, that it might have been existent in all ages, as we see his promise was to the Jews, to keep their land when the males thrice a year went up to the General Assembly at Ierusalem.impediments, can no more prove them to be no Ordinances of God jur… which ought to be, than if one should say, Circumcision, and the Passover, and Sacrifices, and an Ephod, are no Ordinances of God. For it is thought by the learned on Hos. 3 4. Israel was without a King, Sacrifice, Image, Teraphim, Ephod, from the sixth year of the Reign of Hezekiah, when Salmanasser carried away the ten Tribes, until Christ was crowned King, to wit, six hundred and seventy five years. See the English Divines, Diodati, Iunius, Pareus. Zanchins on the place: By this it shall follow, that Circumcision, the Sacrifices, Ephod then are no Ordinances of God, for if they were (say the Dissenting Brethren) institutions are suitable to providenoes. When ye go up to Ierusalem, no man shall desire your land. Then if a General Councel were an Ordinance of Christ, the Lord should suit his providence to a peaceable meeting of the Churches in a General Councel. But so from the sixth year of the Reign of Hezekiah in Israel, Sacrifices, Priests, Ephods, the Kingly power shall be no Ordinances of God, for even till Christ these were not in Israel; and by this profession of the Gospel, and congregational Churches were not at all. And should not the Lord have framed the like providence, that professors of Christ meet in day-light in congregational assemblies? For as the Lord made a special typical promise, when the males go up thrice a year to Ierusalem to worship, the Nations were not permitted of God to desire their land: So must the like promise of providence suiting with the profession of Christ be in the New Testament, the Heathen Emperours shall not desire your lives. Now the plain contrary providence is foretold by our Saviour, Mat. 10. 17, to 25. Luke 21. 12, to 18. Ioh. 16. 1, 2. and the Lord must, by this, fail against his Ordinance of professing Christ before men. When in the persecution of Flavius Domitian, Euseb. Eccles. hist. l. 5. c. 1. Bucolc. Index. Euseb. l. 2. c. 25. Epiphan. cont. haer. Tertul. de Cor. milit. in Apolo. Cario, l. 3. Monar. 4. How loose that is, that providences must suit with institutions.an. 96. of Trajan, an. 108, so many Martyrs were killed, as Eusebius saith; and Plinius 11. the Deputy was smitten in conscience with their number and patience. So multitudes suffered under Antonius Pius; and in the time of D…cius, an. 250. there was no congregation, no Eldership. Many suffered under Nero, many under Maximinus. So Euseb. l. 6. c. 28. under Valerian, an. 259. who killed Pastors and Professors; as Eusebius, l. 7. c. 10, 11, 12. especially godly Cyprian. Now sure the Lord had as sweet and comfortable a providence suiting with the glorifying of his Name, and advancing his Gospel by the death of so many Witnesses, as if he had suffered them to meet in congregations, to meet peaceably, none desiring to take away their life or land, as in Israels day, for their meeting to serve God in congregations. And its an overturning of the Ordinances of God in the New Testament, in which there is not given a land flowing with milk and honey, and a promise of a temporal typical providence, that they shall be free of persecution in following Church-duties, and publick Worship congregational, which is not existent in all ages: Nor saith Mr. Ruthurfurd, that Ministers are given to Ministers primarily, but as they are members of the Body visible, and chosen of God, Ephes. 4.