Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 3 · Chapter 1
LIB. III. CHAP. I.
Of the first subject of Ecclesiastick Power: Of the delegated Power of the Church.
THere is a double Authority, one Supreme and Monarchical Mr. Hookers. Survey; par. …. cap. 11. p. 185, 186.onelyonly in Christ, and another Subordinate and Delegate; which … a Right given by Commission from Christ to fit person…, to act i… his House according to his order. By Right, is meant jus, or foreign, which according to God, certain persons possess in their external administrations issuing from such special relations, unto which they are called by Christ. 2. Its given to … persons who are capable to receive this power, not to women, children, …admen, &c. Therefore let the Reader take notice of that, as not worthy to be considered. If power be in the Church of believers, then women and children may exercise it, … Mr. Ball, Mr. R. for they are not fit persons appointed by Christ to manage this power. Lastly, they must act according to Gods order. The whole Church is an Army terrible with Banners, but the parts do fight in their own order: The power is in the whole firstly, but each part knows his rank; the officers in their part, order and manner, the members in theirs. The whole acts some things immediately, some things mediately.
Ans. A Mona…chical power in Christ we know, and authority delegate of Jurisdiction in the Ambassadors and Officers, Mr. H. his fit persons the first subject of the Keyes, …amined, is found lightwho are called foreign, 1 Tim. 5. 17. foreign, 1 Thess. 5. 12. foreign, Heb. 13. 17. Rulers we know: but that the people or Church of believers especially separated from officers, are called Rulers, or indued with any delegate power over we know not whom, we reade not in Scripture.
2. By the Keyes he must mean both the Keyes of Knowledge and of Jurisdiction: But what Scripture gives the pastoral Key to unofficed Brethren? I do not know a right given to fit persons, without any mentioning of the first subject, the Church of confederate Saints, as Mr. H. which includes women, Sect. 2. p. 192.children of age, servants, (for these are fit persons to be members of the Church built on the Rock) and of the Church of Believers) Ergo, they are fit persons, and as fit, some of them, to wit, children of years of discretion, and believing servants, as the Brethren; for neither Sex, nor want of understanding, nor distemper of judgement, the three causes of unfitness owned by Mr. H. can render them more uncapable than the brethren: yea, the brethren being often unlettered Tradesmen, Unlettered brethren are not fit persons to judge of sound and of heretical doctrine, as M. H.and many of them dull and rude, though believers, are most unfit persons to judge of sound and unsound Doctrine, and of controverted points, whether the Pastors teach perverse things, Acts 20. 29. hold the doctrine of Balaam, Rev. 2. 13. or not; and yet by Mr. H. they are the onelyonly, and none but they are to judge and try the learning, ability of Pastors, unsoundness in Socinian, Antinomian, Popish, Arminian, &c. Tenets, though they know no more the Tongues, Arts nor Sciences, than some Priests who can scarce reade the Mass-book in Latine, nor understand the Languge thereof; and they onelyonly have power to depose them all for Ignorance and Heresie.
2. As for women, they are redeemed, built on the Rock, and have a voice tacit, or no, let Mr. Hooker say.
1. To choose or refuse Officers, 1. They are of the sheep that can discern the voice of Christ in sent Pastors, Joh. 9 and this is Mr. H. his argument to prove that the people should call their own pastors, as hereafttr he saith.
2. Women must have a vote in admission of members, which Mr. H. calls potestatem judicii, a power of judging; for they Survey, pa… 1. c. 11. propos. 4. p. 203.are not to own as Church members, and to rehuke, and tell the Church, and to gain brethren and sisters blindly; they, by the judgement of discretion, if not by more, according to Mr. H. must have some hand in this. Women are to try, by the judgement of discretion, the spirits of Teachers, whether Antichristian or not, whether they be of God, or no, and to hold what is good, as men, 1 Ioh. 4. 1. 1 Thess. 5. 21. Ergo, they must try both men and doctrines; and must, as was said, withdraw from the unsound and scandalous: therefore what Mr. Ball and Mr. R. say touching them, must be considered, If the power be in the whole Church firstly, then must the power of the Keyes be in all the members firstly also, if Logick have place; and if it be in all, then its in women: How came it to women? shew the Scripture. And whereas Mr. H. saith, The whole Church is terrible as an Army with Banners, it saith, the Church ruling and conquering by the Keyes both of Knowledge and Iurisdiction, is made up of ruled commanders, and ruled souldiers, not of a number of onelyonly brethren; and souldiery acts of ruling (for of the Church that beareth the Keyes Mr. H. must now speak) in women Mr. R. would know: for that terribleness is in acts of Discipline, not a little: if all be terrible, then also women. Your homogeneous Church, which onelyonly, and none but they, by Mr. H. his doctrine, may lift a Banner against all the officers, and depose and excommunicate them every man: But Mr. Cotton saith to this, What haste brother Mr. H?
Mr. H. This power is either a power of many when combined, and this is either a power—
Of judging, judicii; or of donation:
Or its power in one a power of Office:
The power of judgement the whole hath, and doth use in admissions and excommunication: the same pow…r that takes in must cast out.
Ans. The distinction of power of Office or Order in one Consent is in the people, but no judicial authority, as antiquity and our Divines prove.who is a Pastor, and of Jurisdiction in many in a Presbytery, is warranted by Scripture.
But for the power of judging, and of giving of power, potest as donationis, to others to preach and administer the seals, in the people who have no power themselves, it hath neither the countenance of Scripture nor Reason, and is but a device of Merellius holden by Mr. H.
Calvin saith, The thing before judged was cleared to the people. Pet. Martyr, Pareus, and others, say well, Excommunication Calvin Com. In 1 Cor. 5. In horum primorum confessu prima erit cognitio, inde res ad populum, sed jam praejudicata, deferebatur. P. Martyr in 1 Cor. 5. De Excom. quaest.would not be done nisi plebe consentiente, without the consent of the people; which includes women and servants, over whose consciences, faith and practise, Rulers are not to domineer, more than over the consciences of men. Cyprian by the plebs and universa fraternitas, the people and fraternity, understands the whole redeemed flock, men and women. Its true, Cyprian threatens some Presbyters, that if they go on in their scandalous way, they should give an account to the people, apud plebem universalem; and writes to some that desired to be reconciled to the Church of Carthage, All things shall be examined, you the people being present. But judging there, as frequently Pareus in 1 Cor. …. Cyprianus ad Cornelium Episcopum Romanum scribit se multum apud plebem laborare, ut pax daretur lapsis, quam si per se dare potuisset, nō erat cur in plebe persuadenda se fatigaret. Cyprian. Epist. 3. Examinabuntur singula praesentibus & judicantibus vobis. Cyprian. Epist. 16. 11. 5. Quando à primordio Episcopatus mei statutum nihil sine consilio vestro (presbyter is & diaconis fratribus scribit) & sine consensu plebis meae privatâ sententiâ gerere. Cyprian. Epist. 38. Vehementer contristatus sum J. C. acceptis …eris vestris, cum mihi propositum semper & votum sit universam fraternitatem vestram incolumem continere & gregem illibatum &c.with Cyprian, is no authoritative judging given to the people. He who answers to Pamelius in his learned Annotations, gives no more to the people, but the knowledge of Church-affairs: About Anno 70. as Eusebius saith, Simeon the son of Cleophas is chosen in the room of Iames, all the disciples consenting. The Council of Carthage, Anno 420. Let not a Bishop ordain any Clergy-man without an Assembly of the Clergy, and let him seek the peoples consent, connivance and testimony.
So was Cornelius made Bishop of Rome by the Authority of God and of the Clergy, and by the suffrages of the people. Our Divines, Bucerus, Calvin, Bucanus, Tilenus, Beza, Virttut, give consenting, and in some cases correcting, not judicial Bucer in Mat. 16. Ut Romae olim, ita hic potest as populi, authoritas senatus.power sure, but which is great enough, a Negative consent for eschewing of a Schism. And the Professors of Leyden, Urfine, Pareus, Iunius, give the people a vote, a consent in Excommunication: and this cannot exclude women who are offended, when the whole Church is offended. The times of Ambrose did witness more pride in the Clergie, who began to do all without calv. Instit. l. 4. c. 11. num. 6. Cyprianus sic clerum (in excommunicatione) praefuisse, ut plebs interim à cognitione non excluderet.the people.
Chemnitius, Daneus, the Confession of Bohemià, of Helvetia, the Synod of Middleburgh, the Synod of Tylleburgh in Nassovia, Anno 1582. teach, That the whole Church with consent of all did excommunicate, but the judging Authority is in the Eldership.
Mr. H. The power of election is especially to be attended by the end, as a corporation hath power to choose a Major, and to give him power. 3. The safety of the whole is to be attended, and that is to submit one to another, and be rebuked one by another.Bucan. de disciplina Eccl. l. 44. quaest. 13. Jus excommunicandi penes presbyterium, sed tamen consciâ & approbante tota Ecclesiâ. Tilen. Disp. 28. Thes. 12. Quamvis scripta sit epistola ad to…m Ecclesiam Corinthiacam, non tamen omnia quae in ea continentur ad singulos pertinent, ut ex elequentiae, scientiae encomiis patet. Pareus in catech. Ursin. quaest. 85. 4. 4. pag. 477. Beza de gradibus minist. cap. 23. Viretus dialo. 20, 21. Zwingl. Cor. 31. Profess. Loyd. Sy…. disp. 48. th. 24. Synedrii authoritas, popu…i consensus. Ursinus ad Fred…. 3. Elect. & 9. 85. Iunius, Eccles. 3. 1. Cypr. cod. vetust. Epist. 68. Coram omni Syn…goga jubet Deus constitui sacerdotem, & …stendit ordinationes sacerdotales non nisi sub populi assistentis consci…nt â si ri oportere, ut plebe praesente, vel detegantur malorum crimina, vel bonorum merita praedicentur, & sit ordinatio justa & legitima quae omnium suffragio & judicio fuerit examin…ta; nec hoc in Episcoporum tantum & sacerdotum, sed & in diaconorum ordination: bus observasse apostolos animadvertimus. Origen. contr. cels. lib. 3. Senatum Ecclesiasticum qui est Athenis, Corinthi invenies foreign. M. H. and his Brethren following Papists, prove their Male-Church from civil corporations. The example of the people both creating and choosing their Major and Rulers, brought by Mr. H. to prove that the people ordain and call their officers, it Popish, and is no rule to us, and the differences are waste.
Ans. Papists prove. the Pope and Prelats from such have their warrant, peoples choosing of their Pastor is from the rule of the Word, not from civil corporation, from which it differs.
1. The people makes one of no King to be a King, and does not onelyonly choose him, 2 Chron. 29 22. the people kinged Solomon; S…ul, 1 Sam. 11. 15. David, 1 Chron. 12. 38. but the choice of the people doth not make an officer, but the laying on of the hands, or ordination of the Presbytery doth that, 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5. Act. 6. 6.
2. The Corporation civil may limit the Major in regard of time, for a year, and no longer: 2. they may make him half a Tyrant, a Dictator, and absolute, or give him less power, that he shall rule none but with the consent of 12 Ass…ssors; but the people may not make him a Pastor for a year, and then lay him aside for no fault, as a Major is unofficed; nor may they limit him so as he shall not preach in season and out of season, but by the consent of 12 men.
3. The Corporation may erect it self in a Kingdome or Commonwealth, and may create Consuls, Dictators, Praetors, Tribunos Plebis, &c. as may most serve for the safety and peace of this State: but the Church may bring in no new officers, but those appointed by Christ; nor may they alter the government, and metamorphose it into another than that which is according to the pattern shewed in the Mount.
4. Women and servants have no vote in choosing or creating Rulers, but since they are to be fed, and this concerns their conscience, it is not so here in the Church; though men may domineer over the civil power of women, yet not over their faith. If some acts were to be performed by a King or Major, without the skill & knowledge of counsellors, and of which the counsellors are as ignorant as the Church of believers ordinarily are of Tongues and Controversies, it might well be said, that the Wisdome of God never appointed such counsellors, and for such an end, as to appoint such men to be counsellors, and such to create Pastors; and therefore its a naughty Argument taken from a Civil Corporation, and Popish. From a worldly Monarchy, Papists prove their Monarchy in the Church. Yea, this Argument proves,
1. That Pastors as Pastors have no warrant by any Institution of Christ, to try, ordain, and lay on hands upon Pastors: for 1. that which is to be done according to Divine I…stitution by a company of visible believers, to whom Christ hath committed the power of the Keyes, as to the first and prime subject, before officers be created, that cannot be done by officers, as having the power of these Keys.
2. So visible saints and women, as well, yea, and by better right, might appoint Elders, i. e. chuse and elect them in every City, then Titus could do; yea. Tit. 1. 5. … Tim. …. 22. … b…tter right then Timothy: as for the place Eph. 5. 21. wh…h Mr. H. had no leisure to cite, every one submit unto another, what Logick is here? is every Woma… a Church to another? for it The place …. 5. a… submit one to another, is mistak…n by Mr. H. it speak…th nothing of Chu…ch-subjection. Z…us in loc. … ux…es, libero…, & maritis & pa…ntibus. B…s, … in familia & Republica. Calvia. Ubicunque regnat charitas ib… mutu… est servit…. B…za, mutua reverentia. Hi…ronymus, Baines on Ephes. 3. C…jetan. in …ocum. T…llian. in Apolo. Praesident probati qu…que. Seniores honorem istam non pre…io, sed testimonio adepti. Theophylact. in Mat. 18. Non solum quae solvunt Sacerdotes s…nt soluta, sed quaecunque & nos injuria affecit, vel ligamus, vel solvimus, & ipsa … ligata & soluta. … o…. in 1 Tim. 5. Synagoga & posteri Ecclesia Seniores habuit, sine q…o…um consilio ni… agebatur in Ecclesiâ, quod qua negligentià ob…t nescio, …si forte doctorum desid…—magis superb….is not spoken of Church-subj…ction, but as Ambrose, of the subjection of humility. Mr. R Boide, Zanchius, of t…e subjection in families, and Common-wealths, as of the Wife to the Husband, the Children to the Parents, of the subjection of L…ve, as Calvin and Beza. Hieronymus, poni… general… principium politiae Christiana. So Caj…tan. Paul Baines saith, it is the submission of humility, which the highest owe to the lowest, the husband to the wife; is not every woman the daughter to submit to the mother? is not this a busing of Scripture? may not the father & the son be in divers congregations? and though it were meant of Church subjection, owe not I Church-subjection to these of another congregation, as to these of my own? and should Mr. H. limit the sense of the Holy Ghost to one single congregation, i. e. submit only to these of your own congregation?
Mr. H. The power of rebuking pertains to all, foreign, to rebuke, Rebuking Mat, 18. is wildly mistaken by Mr. Hoo…r.Mat. 18. 15. foreign, to judge, 1 Cor. 5. 1…. both which express acts of proceeding in a judicial way, the whole may censure the part; they are superior, as officers, when they keep the rule, but inferior, as members, and in submission, when they break the rule.
Ans. There is little Logick in dividing the power of private judging, which every one owe to another (no man is a Church to his brother) into a power of rebuking, and a power of Church-judging; for that 1 Cor. 5. 12. is the Church-judging by excommunication: so the face is where the neck should be.
2. The rebuking, Mat. 18. 15. is indeed in order to Church-rebuking, and to excommunication; yea, to rebuke is a duty of the law of nature, Lev. 19. 17. Ps. 141. 5. but by Mr. H. his way, I must rebuke none but offenders of my own congregation. May I not then rebuke, but hate brethren of another congregation? for so Moses expoundeth Lev. 19. 17.
3. If to rebuke be a judicial Church-rebuking; I pray you, may not women rebuke women and men both, and labour to gain them, if they trespass, and to tell the Church? sure, Abigail, Pilates Wife, Sarah, and other godly women did rebuke, counsel, and complain of offences, and they are not exempted from this duty of the law of nature. Doth not then M. H. clothe women with a Church-power? and why but as Iezabel and wanton widows are censurable, Rev. 2. 20. 1 Tim. 2. 12. may they not rebuke? and it appears that a brother must forgive until seventy seven times (for upon this occasion Peter moves the question, Mat. 18. 15, 21, 22.) but not so, women, aged children, and servants, for they must be less apt to forgive then men.
3. If Mr. H. so much please himself in Dichotomies, why but to these two he might have added 2 Cor. 2. 7. foreign, to forgive, and foreign, to comfort; and others also, as teaching, Mr. H. his division of power of 1. rebuking, 2. of judging, a narrow and a weak Dichotomy.exhorting? all which cannot be taken from women, servants, aged children, except you ex…me them from the Law of Love. And howbeit the rebuker be the superiour as he rebukes (which yet is not true in an unjust rebuker, for he is inferiour) yet either too much shall be taken from, or too much given to godly women by Mr. H. his way.
Mr. H. objects, If the people should censure the Pastors, then there should be Pastors of Pastors, and the Sheep should be Shepherds, not the Sheep.
Ans. The consequence is feeble, because the people judge not as officers, but as members of the whole, to whom by vertue of the common Laws of combination they have subjected themselves to be ordered, for the common good.
Ans. Mr. H fathers not this argument upon me, nor upon any of ours, but Stapleton, Grego. de Valen. Toletus, Pererius, Esthius, and other Papists, who urge the like to exime their By Mr. H. his way, the flock are over the shepherds, the flock feed, and watch for the soul of the pastors.Clergy from being subject to civil powers. Own the Argument, for then the shepherd should be subject to the sheep, which is not absurd, in diverso causarum genere. But these who gave power as officers to excommunicate, are here ruled by such as have that power, and such, to wit, the people and flock, have that power, have the keys.
2. Are to edifie by excommunication, 1 Cor. 5. 5. 2 Cor. 10. 8. 1 Tim. 1. 20.
3. The Rulers are to obey the people, as such, who watch for their souls, Heb. 13. 17.
4. Take heed that they perish not, and therefore must give warning and rebuke, lest these perish over whom they have the power of the rod that way. And so the people authoritatively watch for their shepherds, and the shepherds, to wit, all the officers must submit unto the sheep, the people, as being over them in the Lord, having the power of excommunication above their heads.
2. It is but a conceit, to say, that the brethren excommunicate It is but a poor evasion of Mr. H. that the people doth excommunicate the officers, not as officers, but as members; for none are sure to be excommunicate, but as scandalous and rotten members.not their pastors as if they were officers, for they excommunicate them, as having received the keys to use them against their Pastors, as the Church having authoritative power over their Pastors, as members of the Church; and it hath no sense to say, that the Church excommunicates, not as the Church, and contrary to Mat. 18. 17, 18. nor can members as members excommunicate; but saith he, the officers are not excommunicated as officers, but as members. Nor are any the most scandalous excommunicated as officers, or as saints, or as members, but as scandalous officers, or scandalous professors, or as rotten and leavening members corrupting the whole lump.
Mr. H. Suppose the members of a Class offend, the rest who censure them are not Pastors of Pastors to these whom they censure.
Ans. The whole watch for themselves, and rule, and govern themselves, as the Parliament do rule their own members. But it is non-sense to say that the sheep are in the Lord over the flock, for the Scripture saith the contrary, Heb. 13. 17. 1 Thes. 5. 12, 13. v. 7.
Mr. H. Suppose the Pastors turn Hereticks, the ruling Elders with the rest consure them; here are the inferiours judging the superiours.
Ans. This is to beg the question, for if there be none to excommunicate the Pastors, but only the ruling Elder with the The ruling Elders there alone with the people have no power by the Word to judge the Pastors.people, Christ committed not half a Key to any society. The Key of Ruling without the Key of Preaching is committed to no society on earth; and therefore not to the rul…ng Elder with the peopl…. If there be more teaching Pastors with the ruling Elders, then an heretical Pastor may be censured by the whole Judicature, and by the ruling Elders in Collegio, where he hath an equal vote with the teaching Pastor, and doth not as an inferiour judge the teaching Elder, but as a collateral and joynt Judge censure with the whole Judicature.
Mr. H. Its a staple Rule, No man by nature hath an Ecclesiastical Pag. 189, 190.power over another by constraint; one comes a Christian convert from China, to a Countrey or City where many Churches are, It is no staple rule, that one cannot be compelled to joyn in a congregation.none of them can, by the rule of the Gospel, compel him to joyn with one more than another. He may freely choose what is most suitable to his heart, and may be most to promote his spiritual edification.
Ans. Neither Civil nor Ecclesiastick power here hath place. 1. This staple Rule (Mr. H. abounds with staple Rules which are much irregular) except it be proved by the Word, is a staple untruth. No man by Nature hath a spiritual power, either gift, office, or grace: But by Nature here is opposed to free consent. Children born in Abrahams house are without free consent members of that Church: Be it so, one congregation more than another cannot compel the China-convert to be a member of their congregation; but if he be baptized and profess, the godly Magistrate may compel him to hear the Word, and receive the Seals in the place he resides, so it be a sound Church. The Magistrate cannot compel him to faith and heart duties, but he may compel him to external profession; nor doth his being a member of this rather than of any other Church, make him a member of th… visible Church; nor is that any thing but staple forgery: the …uler cannot compel a man to love his Neighbour, but he can c…mpel him to the external duties of love, and punish him if against love he beat or kill his Neighbour. He cannot compel any to the faith, but if one come to years desert his faith professed in baptism, both the Church and the Magistrate may punish him as a run away.
The Church cannot by carnal weapons (saith he) impose any Church-constitution, as Nature gives not this power Ecclesiastick: true, it is a free gift of God: So a civil Ruler (saith he) should not impose it, that is a poor consequence, he should impose all civil duties that are external, and which the mans baptism and profession ties him unto. What ever is done here (saith he) in the constitution of Churches, is done by an Ecclesiastick Rule, not by a Rule of policy. This yet is most weak. The Magistrate The Ruler makes no Church-laws, but he may compel Christians, yea and subdued heathens in some case to obey them when they are made.makes no rule of constitution of Churches, nor any Ecclesiastical Rule, as Mr. H. saith. But it follows not, therefore he cannot impose it, when it is made. The Magistrate makes not the hearing of the Gospel to be lawful; but it follows not, Ergo as the preserver of both Tables of the Law, he may not command Christian subjects to hear the Gospel: yea, to me its most probable, he may compel heathen people lawfully conquered to desist from Idolatry, blaspheming of Christ, and to hear the Gospel.
The man comes from China acknowledging God in all his wayes, as Abraham left his Countrey, Gen. 12. if he be an Idolater, they should not lodge him, 2 Ioh. 10. he comes not as indifferent to be married to this or this Church, or to none at all; as a man sins not if he marry none at all, 1 Cor. 7. but if he be a professor that joyns to no Church, he lives scandalously; therefore the adequate cause of membership, or to this membership, is not mutual consent, as in marriage, but both parties are under a command to confess Christ before men; and its a selfish thing to make a mans own heart the Judge and Determiner of his membership, and not the Churches led by the Rule of the Word: and so the Church is obliged to receive him, and he is obliged to joyn a member, according to Cant. 1. 7, 8. Mat. 10. 32.Pag. 190, 191. There is no Scripture that unofficed men have a power of creating of officers.
Mr. H. The power scattered in many, when they are voluntarily combined, they may give it to one, and this is a power of Office, and they may covenant to submit to him their united right. Hence it is more than plain, they may give a call and power to such and such to be Pastors, and yet themselves be no Pastors. Christ gave some to be Pastors, Ephes. 4. he furnishes men, 1 Corinth. 12. 28.
Ans. Where is Mr. H. his Logick now? Why made he not once a Syllogism, or a face of a Consequence?
1. There is a power scattered in many. What power? of ordaining by laying on of hands to make men to be Pastors which were none before? By what shadow of Scripture or Reason is this said? one half of a Command, or Promise or Practise shall silence me, if they may give their scattered powers of Jurisdiction to one, they may create a Monarch, an Arch-Pastor or Pope over themselves. I judge Mr. H. thinks not so: but Scripture should here speak, and not Mr. H. and tell us, who gave to people, to men and to women (who have no less a power to know the voice of Christ in this Pastor, and to choose an officer than men) the scattered powers official to call and create officers.
2. They may give this power to one: prove this; its a non …ns, a power of ordaining even virtual they have not, therefore they cannot give it.
3. Christ gave gifts to men, God hath placed Pastors in the Church, Apostles: what! Ergo, the people gives power of being Apostles, Pastors, to men who were not Apostles and Pastors before? This is Mr. H. his Argument: Are Mr. H. his words Ames. in Bellarm. enervato …om. 2, l. 3. c. 2, Oves rationales (foeminae, adulti, pueri, servi) possunt eligere sibi pastorem non per jurisdictionem, sed potius per subjectionem. See the mistakes of D. Bilson, Perpetual Governm. c. 7. Page 191.Oracles, and Principles that cannot be denied?
4. The people, men and women as sheep, choose a Pastor by no act of Iurisdiction, saith Amesius, but rather by Subjectione and Election makes not a Minister, but onelyonly appropriates his labours to his people, quoad administrationem, saith Cyprian, Ordination is the call and juridical sending. Now the Apostles and Presbytery ordained Elders, Tit. 1. 5. laid on hands and ordained, Acts 6. 6. 1 Tim 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. committed the charge to faithful men, able to teach others. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 3. 1, 2. 3. shew me so much for your new Male-Church, excluding Females, who may be unbaptized men converted in China.
Mr. H. A divided power in many, is not an united power from many. The peoples is a divided power, lying in many combined, and therefore not the same. Hence the power of judgement is not the power of office, and therefore the fraternity may have the one, when they have not the other.
Ans. Here is no Argument at all. This new Church, that now is called the Fraternity, a new name, not in Scripture, in Many bre…h…ē have no divided powers to make …ne an officer.this sense hath neither a divided nor an united power, to make, ordain and call to the holy Ministery one who was no Minister before; and so the question is begged, A divided power to choose in many, is not an united power. Its true of the power of electing and choosing of Officers, they are divers powers, and therefore the society hath the united power of choosing a Minister: but some men there alone have not a power, being divided from the Church of women, children and servants.
2. Mr. H. finding himself ebbe in proving, he tells us, that the fraternity may have the power of judging, and not of office: and he hath given no Word of God to prove, that the power of office, and the power of juridical judging (for of that we now speak, for the judgement of discretion women have) are different, that is, in divers subjects: But I deny that any hath official power, but that man hath juridical power also; or that any hath juridical power, but he hath also a power of office. Mr. H. brings no argument of the weight of a feather on the contrary. I deny not but they have divers formal exceptions, and because the power of judgement is not the power of office, therefore the fraternity may have the one, not the other. Weak Logick. Differunt conceptibus formalibus, Ergo, differunt subjectis. A power of discoursing, rationale, is not a power of laughing, risibile; sure: and therefore (saith this simple Logick) a man may have the one, and not have the other, that is, a man may be rational, and yet not risible: I am sorry that godly and judicious men build such hay and stubble upon the foundation.
3. Why does Mr. H. give this new Church a Latine Name, The Fraternity, that is, a Church of Redeemed ones built on the The fraternity or brethren are in no place of Scripture put for the male-Church of Redemed ones, far less for the congregational male Church. Way of the Churches, cap. 1. sect. 1. pag. 1, 2.Rock, made up of Brethren and no Sisters? Ah! are women, servants, aged children, nor redeemed, not built on the Rock? So is there a Gospel-instituted Church described. The word foreign, as Stephanus tells us, is onelyonly twice in the New Testament: 1 Pet. 2. 17. Love the brotherhood, that is, the company of the brethren, say Mr. Leigh, Beza, Calvin, English Stephan. in Concord. N. T. Mr. Leigh Crit. Sac. N. T. p. 7. Beza foreign achava pro fratrum coetu. Calvin. Pro fratribus collectivè sumptis. English Divines and Lorin. ipsam Ecclesiam. Esthius. Qui regeneratione fratres sunt. Piscator. foreign, die brud…rschaff id est, totam multitudinem fratrum: sic infra 5. v. 9. sic Latini nobilitatem pro nobilibus. Cyprian. lib. 3. Epist. 17. Cum fraternitatis nostrae vel utilitas vel necessitas sic utique gubernetur—fraternitatem universam meo nomine salutate. So Cypr. lib. 3. c. 18. Augustine. Basilius Epist. ad Galliae Episcopos fratres.Annotators. The company of the brethren; Lorinus, The Church; Esthius, The brethren by regeneration, and new birth. So Piscator, The brethren that are regenerated; as the Nobility is put for the Nobles. Let any man judge, if name or thing be so much as hinted at, when Paul and the rest of the Apostles export the brethren, Iam. 5. 12. My brethren, swear not, does he not forbid women to swear? or speak they of the brethren onelyonly of a single congregation? Yea, and when Paul determined to come to the brethren at Rome, Rom. 1. 13, 14. to whom he was debtor to preach the Gospel, came he onelyonly as such a debtor to brethren of a single congregation? or onelyonly such brethren of a single congregation justified by faith? are they onelyonly no debtors to the flesh? Rom. 8. 12. & 7. 1. & 10. 1. & 7. 4. Wherefore my brethren, ye are bec…me dead to the law by the body of Christ: are not women dead to the law through Christ? See Rom. 8. 12. 1 Cor. 1. 10, 26. and in many places of the Old and New Testament, if the Scripture mean onelyonly unofficed men by the Fraternity and Brethren. Cyprian hath the word Fraternity, the whole Fraternity: but all that reade him know, he means most ordinarily the whole Church and flock of men and women. And when it is taken for onelyonly men, it is brethren in office, Act. 10. 23. & 15. 23. never for brethren of this new devised Church. Augustine useth it sometime for brethren in the Ministery, and so doth Basil and the Fathers.
Mr. H. However the Elders are superior to the fraternity in regard of office, rule, act and exercise, which is proper onelyonly to them, and not to the fraternity, the people or Church are superiour to the Elders in point of censure, each have their full scope in their own sphere and compass: The office of Major, King, Emperour is not prejudged, because the Corporation, Parliament, Princes and States for faults may depose them.
Ans. What he calls the fraternity in the one line, in the next he calls it without all Scripture, the People or Church, as if women If brethren & Church be all one, women must be no members of the Church. M. H. makes censuring no act of ruling.and servants were no part of the people and Church redeemed by Christ.
2. Whereas he makes the people or Church superior to the Elders (all of them if Hereticks) in regard of censure, not of office and rule: He makes censuring or excommunicating no part of rule, contrary to Scripture. Excommunicating is either an act of teaching; or 2. of administring the Seals; or 3. of visiting, by private exhorting, convincing or comforting, for an act of feeding for publick edification it must be, 1 Cor. 5. 5. 2 Cor. 10. 8. But that it can be none of these, it needs no probation; to excommunicate, is not to preach, &c.
2. It is contrary to Mr. Cottons words.Cottons Keyes; c. 4. n. 2. p. 16. Excommunication is one of the highest acts of rule in the Church, and therefore cannot be performed but by some Rulers: Now where the Elders are cu…pable, there be no Rulers left in that Church to censure them.
3. The Ordinance of Christ is prejudged, where …nofficed men take on them the name of the Church, and are not the Church, and to excommunicate, where they have no such power of the Keyes given to them by any word of Christ. The instances of a Major, King, &c. prove nothing: All free Societies L…x-Rex, … 6. pag. 28, 29, & seq.may, by the Law of God, create, and also choose Solomon, David to be their King, and unking them again for a fault, as elsewhere I have proved. And here is a clear Law of God, but that a new devised fraternity of some few unofficed brethren should rule and over-rule, and the sheep excommunicate all their officers, must have a word of institution, not Mr. H. his naked word.
M. H. Hence the censure of Excommunication, for the act is Page 191.common to the Elders, onelyonly for the manner of managing of it, its peculiar for the Elders to be leaders in that action: and thence it is they are called (Leaders) foreign, Heb. 13. 17.
Ans. I know not why the censure of Excommunication should not be common to both the Elders and this new fraternity, both in regard of the power and the act of Excommunication, except Mr. H. shew, that the office addes a new power of Excommunication, which the fraternity hath not; and if so,
1. The fraternity, before they were officers, and now when they are all turned grievous Wolves, do excommunicate, and yet they want this new official power of Excommunication, which is strange; for then they shall not have the complete power of Excommunication: and yet they exercise the act with commission from Christ.
2. It is to me a mystery, what superiority in the manner of managing the act of Excommunication, the officers have above M. H. abus…s, but expounds not the place Heb. 13 17. in making all pastoral autority over the people to be in the pastors, presiding and ordering of the meeting in the censures, especially of Excommunication.the fraternity, they load, i. e. they preside and moderate in the actual d…pensing of censures, and therefore are called Overs…rs, Heb. 13. 17. Good; Ergo, moderating the acts of judging, makes the Pastor an overseer and watcher for the souls of the members of the Iudicature, as one who must give an account to God, for so the place Heb. 13. 17. 18. is. Was ever Scripture so tortured? The scope of that place is, Heb. 13. that men, women, obey their watchmen, feeding by the Word preached, by Seals and Censures, the flock; so the words. So Beza, Calvin, Pareus, Marlorat, Piscator; so Cajitanus, Iustinus Martyr, foreign, Rulers. Never man, I dare say, Father, Protestant, Lu…ran, Papist, or Interpreter, who expound that passage, dreamed that the officers are called overseers, Heb. 13. 17, 18. because they lead and preside, or convene and dissolve the congregation. Calvin. Ut plebs fidem & reverentiam pasto…bus habeat. …ar…us. Obedient in domino. Marlorat. In summo pretio habeant cum charitate, 1 Thess. … 12. Piscat. Hortatur ad obedientiam erga ipsorum duces & ductores, id est, pastores, …ctores, gubernatores. Cajetan. Subditos ad obedientiam hortatur. Esthius idem.For it follows, the Moderator of a Judicature hath a superiority of office over the members of the Synod, and watches for their souls.
2. That he is the Pastor of Elders and Pastors in the act of Excommunication, and rules them, but reacheth them not, and this is the Prelate.
3. When there be twelve Pastors over one congregation of Ierusalem in acts of censure, Peter or some other leading the action, must be a Pope with superiority of office over these to watch for their soul…
4. When the Brethren excommunicate all their officers, an unofficed Brother must lead the action as an overseer, Heb. 13. …7. What superiority of Jurisdiction hath this or any Moderator or Speaker in Parliament, or Prolocutor in a Synod? for he hath but one vote. If it be a priority of honour, for age, and grace and gifts, we must obey all the aged, and such as in learning and holiness exceed us, for they watch for our souls, by the place Heb. 13. 17. as Mr. H. teacheth us.