Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 2 — Simon Patrick

Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 2 · Simon Patrick

Now perhaps I gueſs at you meaning. You have great skill in expounding the Works of Providence, though not in interpreting Prophecies: And can give the reaſon of thoſe misfortunes which befall ſome particular perſons; contrary to the expreſs ſentence of our Saviour, Luk. 13.

N. C.

Thoſe very words of our Saviour deterr us from paſſing raſh Cenſures.

Do they ſo? How came Mr. Vicars then profeſſedly to handle this Argument? and not only tell ſtories of Gods hand upon Malignants; but expreſly affirm,Looking glaſs for Malignants, Or Gods hand againſt Godhaters. this was a direct judgment of the Lord for deſperate Malignancy; and that, a clear evidence of Gods undoubted indignation? And now how came Mr. John White to licenſe this deſperate Book; but that you thought you might do any thing to promote the cauſe, becauſe it was the cauſe of God? This makes you ſtill compoſe Prophecies to amuſe the credulous; and fill the Nation with the noiſe of Prodigies to ſet the timorous into a fit of Trembling. When your troubled imaginations preſent you with a throng of diſmal thoughts; then you thunder out judgment againſt us; and when any unuſual thing befalls any of us; then you inſtantly cry out; See the hand of God! Behold how the Lord plagues them for our ſakes! You know I do not lye. There are two or three whole Books writ ſince the King's return, that will witneſs againſt you, if you ſhould gainſay me. And ſo would Mr. Vicars; who hath nothing to affrighten Neuters withal but ſuch tales as this; that a certain Malignant being filled with terrors on his death-bed repented of his crime; obtain'd aſſurance of Pardon from the Lord; ſaw Chriſt himſelf in a Viſion, who told him he had a cauſe on earth, and that the Parliament of England defended it, and ſhortly none of thoſe wicked Miniſters, that had miſlead Gods people, ſhould be left among them.

N. C.

I renounce all thoſe Books; and hate that the cauſe ſhould be ſerved with ſuch ſtories of Gods judgments.

I wiſh it be becauſe Chriſt taught you better, and not meerly becauſe experience hath a little inſtructed you, that this weapon may be turn'd againſt you, and wound your ſide as well as ours. I my ſelf could tell you ſtrange but true Misfortunes that have beſaln ſome of your way; which I will not interpret to the juſtifying of our cauſe or the condemning yours. I will only remember how you were wont to clamor, if any man took notice of unuſual calamities upon any of you; and to cry Blaſphemy, Blaſphemy: Though you were ſo prone to cry Providence, Providence, when the like betided any of us. Mr. W. Bridges for inſtance, when the converted Gentleman ſpoke of ſome remarkable ſtrokes upon three great Perſons,Anſwer to Loyal Convert. p. 12. whoſe names I will not ſo much as mention, replyed in a great paſſion; Surely, were not prophaneneſs and blaſphemy as toyes and trifles among you, you durſt not ſpeak much leſs print ſuch blaſphemies as theſe. Solomon ſaith, that all things fall alike to all, and the ſame condition (in regard of outward things) is to the juſt as to the wicked: As is the good ſo is the ſinner and he that ſweareth, as he that feareth an Oath: There is one event to All. For my part; I embrace this Doctrine with all my Soul; for a greater than Solomon hath taught me, not to conſtrue events according to my own fancy, and as will beſt promote and juſtifie my opinion: Only I wiſh, you would not alter your mind when the perſons are altered; and make one rule for us and another for your ſelves.

N. C.

No. You and I are well agreed in this.

Thank you for nothing. When you ſee that which you took to be a ſharp ſword prove but a wooden Dagger, you throw it away. Such is the great wiſdom and knowledg you brag of. You firſt furiouſly lay about you, not regarding whether you hit friend or foe; and when you have hurt both alike, then you repent and ſay, you will do ſo no more. I pray God you be as good as your word. But I much fear you will prove like King Saul, who when he heard David was in Keilah, ſaid, Now God hath delivered him into my hands, for he is ſhut in a City that hath Gates and Barrs. And though he ſaw he was deceived, yet grew never a whit the wiſer; but when his Enemy was in a New ſtrait, concluded again that God had intrapped him, and would not let him eſcape his Vengeance: According to the old ſaying, They that have forward deſires fall into Dreams, although they do not ſleep.

N. C.

We have done I aſſure you, with expounding the meaning of Gods Providence: And ſhall not pry any more into his hidden Counſels.

Very good. What piece of knowledg then have you to brag of more than others? Unleſs you mean ſome ſecrets which you keep to your ſelves: Special and extraordinary Excitations, and Chriſtian Inſpirations to make a Reformation without the calling of the Supream Magiſtrate, as Mr. Saltmarſh's words are: An inward call from God giving you leave to break his Law, or as Mr. Bridge expreſſes it, to make a change, but not in a legal way. This I confeſs is a Trick, but no ſuch Myſtery; a new device, but no great Secret. There is none of us all but can eaſily learn it; and that we do not, is not becauſe we have not ſo much Wit, but becauſe we have more Conſcience.

N. C.

No body ever pretended to ſuch knowledg.

Yes but there did. Mr. Saltmarſh confeſſes that the early ſetting forth of private men in the work of Reformation is apt to exceed to a tumultuous motion: Yet for all that he would not put them ſo far behind, as that they ſhould lie, Animad v. (on Mr. Fullers Serm.) dedicated to the Aſſembly.like the Lame and Diſeaſed at the Pool of B. theſda, waiting till a Supreme Power come among them. No, there are many publick ingagements which they are capable of, and which Providence will often guide them unto: as in finding Outways of Facilitation, and Advancements for the buſineſs; beſide ſome other Accana, and ſecret Preparations. What theſe Out-ways were, into which a man might laſh and ſo skip over many difficulties, he leaves us to gueſs. You may be ſure they are not the Common high-road of the King of Heaven; as the Reply tells him. His Arcana alſo he keeps to himſelf, as if he was one of Heavens cloſe Committee, and ſo bound to Secrecy. But the moſt likely perſon to diſcloſe theſe Myſteries and reveal the Arcana (if he be not ſworn to ſecrecy too) is Mr. Bridge; of whom you may enquire. And perhaps he will think himſelf much beholden to you for teaching him a New Phraſe which he hath not yet uſed; Out-wayes of Facilitation of the great and hard work now at hand. Theſe Out-wayes will do knight-ſervice, when they come to the buſineſs of reſtraining the higher powers, and turning the ſtill people to war and blood

N. C.

You are reſolved I ſee, to lead me out of my way▪ and to take one occaſion or other to divert me from the main buſineſs.

We are in our way yet. But I was going I confeſs to lead you to the dancing on the ropes, and then indeed you might have taken occaſion to complain.

N. C.

I think you are out of your witts. Can you tell what you was going to ſay?

I was thinking with my ſelf, what Out-wayes the dancers upon the ropes could find; to whom Mr. Bridg compares Reformers. They have no Out-wayes ſure, but what may indanger to lead them out of the world.

N. C.

Would you would reſt a while and take a nap: For I doubt you have heated your Brain by this long diſcourſe, and ſo begin to talk idlely.

I underſtand my ſelf well enough; and call to mind that I ſhould indeed have ſaid, Walking (which is more becoming the gravity of Reformers) not dancing on the Rope. For his words are theſe (when he is exhorting the Parliament to lay the Stones of Reformation with moſt exactneſs) You ſee that when a man walks upon the Rope, he carrieth a pole in his hand to ſway him, and he looks diligently to his ſect, becauſe if he fail be cannot mend his miſcarriage, And I ſay, that in this work of Reformation if there be the leaſt ſlip, Sermon before the Commons, 29. Nov. 1643. p. 21.22.it will be a hard thing to recover it, when once a Nation is ſetled in that miſcarriage. Surely therefore the work is to be done with the moſt exactneſs.

N. C.

Well, and doth he not ſay true?

I ſhould indeed have conſidered, that Out-wayes are only to facilitate your getting the work of Reformation into your hands. When you are about it, then Out-wayes are dangerous. All muſt be done by the Rule and by Line (or in a new phraſe by Rope) according to the Word. In brief; I recollect now that this is the Out-waying time, in order to thoſe better times of Walking upon the Rope. But I pray, What was it that I diverted you from?

N. C.

Oh, now I ſee you are come to your ſelf. And will you then ever hear me ſpeak a Sentence or two more— I thank you for this ſmall ſilence. You have ſnapt, of late, at my words too haſtily; and cut me ſhort in what I was going to ſay; which was plainly this. We obſerve the Multitude that run in your way to be a company of blind Ignorant Creatures, that have ſcarce a drachm of the ſaving knowledg of Jeſus Chriſt, and the Myſteries of our Religion. Nor do they care to know theſe things; but only content themſelves to come to Church and ſay their Prayers, and learn their Catechiſm, and hear perhaps a Sermon, which they preſently forget. Whereas our People are very inquiſitive after knowledg, and can diſcourſe rarely of matters of Religion, and repeat Sermons; and beſides, are very careful to know the pure Goſpel-way of Worſhipping God. And, truly, when I conſider things well, I cannot but wonder how ſottiſh many of your Conformable creatures are, who never ſcruple any thing, and would without all doubt conform to the groſſeſt Superſtition and Popery; ſhould it be injoyned. But we are very tender, and ſolicitous as you your ſelves confeſs to have pure Ordinances, and to know the very mind and way of God.

I perceive you have little or nothing more to ſay of this matter; therefore I pray let me tell you what I think. I cannot deny that many of our common People are very Ignorant: Nay, they themſelves are ſenſible of it and will confeſs it. But I muſt add; that yours are generally Ignorant too, only think themſelves very knowing. Now which of theſe think you are the worſe; they that are Ignorant but humble and void of ſelf-conceit; or they that are as Ignorant, but very Proud and conceited of their Knowledg? Nay, bold & confident of their own skill, taking upon them to inſtruct their betters, to diſpute with our Miniſters, and that as if they were their Equals if not Superiours; without any reſpect to their learning or office? For I muſt tell you withall, that as to their duty towards God and man; a great number of thoſe, on whom you beſtow only your pitty, and eſteem Ignorant creatures; have more underſtanding, at leaſt more conſcience than many of thoſe that ſigh over them.

They are more reverent in their Devotions and addreſſes to God; more reſpectful in their behaviour to his Miniſters; more obedient to their Governours; more humble and modeſt before all their betters; and, as far as I can ſee, more juſt and charitable toward all men: And therefore are in a better diſpoſition to learn more and increaſe in knowledg, than your prating ſelf-conceited people. And if there be ſuch Effects as theſe of the little knowledg that you deſpiſe; and ſew better fruits than talkativeneſs, malepert contradictions of their Elders, cenſuring and contemning the ignorance of others, from that great high knowledg which you boaſt of, I would fain know which of theſe you judg are like to be moſt ſaving. But of theſe things perhaps we may have occaſion to diſcourſe ſome other time. As for the Reſt; I flatly deny that your people are more knowing. For of thoſe that are the moſt earneſt for pure Ordinances, Goſpel-worſhip, and cry out upon our Liturgy, nay abhor it, as Superſtitions, Popiſh, Idolatrous, &c. there is not one in an hundred that knows what thoſe words mean. Be but ſo true to your ſelf and ſtudious to underſtand men aright, as to ask the next you meet, and bid them deal plainly and freely with you, what Popery, Superſtition or Will-worſhip is; and I doubt not you will find they are like a company of Piggs running after an old Sow (which falls a grunting) ſqueaking and making a fearful cry they know not for what.

N. C.

You uſe a very homely Similitude.

It may paſs well enough in common talk, and was the firſt that came to hand to repreſent the rude and ſenſeleſs noiſe which the multitude make with thoſe words, only by imitation.

N. C.

But you compare them to Swine.

No. I only compare their cryes together, which are both alike unreaſonable. Do but ask for inſtance what they mean by Popery: and ſome of theſe Ignorant Zealots will tell you, it is to do that which is practiſed in the Church of Rome: Which is no better than the voice of a Brute. If this be Popery, all our Religion is Popery. We muſt turn Jews, or Turks, or Pagans, that we may not be Papiſts. And yet that will not do neither; for this Popery will ſtill be found among us, that we pray and give thanks to God, which are actions common to all the world with the Church of Rome.

N. C.

You need not have ſpent one word to confute ſuch a groſs Conceit as this.

True. But this ſottiſh Definition of Popery you will be ſure to meet withal from ſome, if you will but take the pains to enquire. Others it's like will tell you, that it is Popery to do any thing after that manner that the Papiſts do: And then we muſt never kneel, nor lift up our eyes or our hands, nor meet together in a Church —

N. C.

Why do you fetch ſuch a ſigh?

I ſigh to think of the intolerable blockiſhneſs of thoſe people that will pretend to know all the Myſteries of God. For others, who think themſelves more wiſe than the reſt, will tell you that to uſe any ceremonies in uſe among them, is certainly Popiſh. And then we muſt uſe none at all (and ſo make no outward expreſſion of Religious devotion, which muſt be done in ſome manner or other) or elſe they muſt be ſuch as are confeſſedly abſurd and ridiculons. Nay all civil Ceremonies and Cuſtomes will be forbidden us in time by theſe men. At leaſt for every thing that they hate, this ſhall be the name, Popiſh, Antichriſtian, or Babyloniſh. For O. C. himſelf,True Catalogue p. 15. I well remember, could not be carried to his grave without their clamours; that it was a needleſs, chargeable, Popiſh funeral ſolemnity; becauſe there was black Velvet, a Bed of State, and a Waxen Image Nay, let Monareby look to it ſelf, for that is Popiſh and Antichriſtian too in ſuch mens opinion, and this Kingdom one of the Ten Horns of the Beaſt. And down ſhall my Lord Mayor go alſo (when they are able) as an Image of that Government; together with all the pomp and foolery which attends him; as their words formerly were.

N. C.

I hope there are no ſuch dangerous perſons now among us.

It's well if there be not. But you will certainly find ſome who will tell you, that all Ceremonies invented by the Pope are Popiſh; and think themſelves, much wiſer than their Neighbors if upon this ground they furiouſly rage againſt our Church. But the beſt of it is, that this is nothing to the purpoſe: For none of ours were invented by him. The Croſs was uſed among Chriſtian people long before the name or power of the Pope was heard of: And ſo was kneeling; and white garments, and bowing the body in adoration of our Bleſſed Saviour.

N. C.

But I have heard ſome ſay, that it is Popiſh to do any thing of this nature but what is preſcribed by the Word.

This is as ſottiſh as all the reſt. For it ſuppoſes, both that nothing may be done in or about the worſhip of God, but what we have a Command for, in Holy Scripture; and that the Pope and his followers, are the only perſons who have done any thing not preſcribed there. Elſe why ſhould they call it Popiſh, or Romiſh, more than Patriarkiſh, or Greekiſh?

N. C.

Is not the Suppoſal true?

No. All the ancient Chriſtians did many things in Divine worſhip appointed by the Scriptures, for which they had no particular preſcription there. Nay, ſuch is your Ignorance, you your ſelves do ſo too and never mind it. For what direction is there to make a new prayer twice or thrice a day? And one Prayer before the Sermon, and another after? To receive the Sacrament of Chriſt's body and blood in the morning and not after Supper? To deliver it into the hands of every perſon that receives it, with Prayer for him, or Exhortation to him, or both? —

N. C.

Pray ſtay. You will let nothing at all be Popiſh, if you be let alone: At leaſt nothing of this Nature.

Yes. We are taught by our Divines, that, to ordain ſuch a multitude of Ceremonies, as will imploy moſt of our thoughts and care in time of Divine Service how to do them aright; deſerves that name. Or if we make any of them an eſſential part of Gods worſhip, or give them power to obtain pardon for us, or work grace in us: Or, laſtly, it we make them Apoſtolical and neceſſary Commands that bind the Conſcience as the Laws of God do: Then call them Popiſh and Antichriſtian, or what you pleaſe.

N. C.

You ſay well: And I confeſs I know a little more than I did.

O that you would help to reduce thoſe ſilly, and many of them I hope well-meaning ſouls, who through mere Ignorance and blind prejudice are departed from the grave and ſober way of ſerving God among us, to follow their own vain fancies; and perhaps conceit they are Witneſſing againſt Popery and the wayes of Antichriſt; that is, againſt they know not what.

N. C.

I am not come ſo far yet; nor hold my ſelf able to Witneſs againſt ſuch perſons; but this I can ſay, that all is not Popery which is ſo called.

Nor Superſtition neither. Though with the ſame doltiſh Ignorance, they charge us with that vice which they are moſt guilty of themſelves and do not know it: As appears by what I told you at our laſt meeting.

N. C.

They like not your definition of Superſtition.

That's becauſe they like nothing that we ſay: And becauſe it makes them ſo plainly guilty of that which they condemn. But do they like Mr. Calvin's definition of it better?

N. C.

What is it?

You may have met it's poſſible with his Inſtitutions, for they have been long in the Engliſh Tongue. There he tells you almoſt in the beginning of the Book,Book 1. chap. 12. pag. 41. that as Religion hath its name from binding, and is ſet as contrary to wandring Liberty; becauſe it binds men up, and preſcribes bounds and limits to them, in which true Piety conſiſts: So Superſtition hath its name from going beyond all meaſures; being a humour that will not be bounded nor limited; or as his very words are, that not being contented with the manner and order preſcribed, heapeth up together a ſuperfluous and order preſcribed, heapeth up together a ſuperfluous number of vain things. Do you like this, I ſay, or no? If you do, then I will ſhew you that as in Prayers, ſo in other holy Duties, your humour is to keep no meaſure nor order, but to heap up one ſuperfluous thing upon another: No ſet Form can content it, no limits or bounds can hold it; but it is ſtill inventing ſomething new to pleaſe your ſelves and others; and then you fancy God is pleaſed, becauſe you are. I know you have a conceit that you keep your ſelves within the limits of the Word, and that you dare not for a world ſtir beyond the confines which God preſcribes: But this only makes your Ignorance appear the more groſs, as I will plainly ſhew you.

N. C.

I gueſs by what you ſaid the laſt time whereabouts you will be; but it will turn us too much out of our way to enter into that diſcourſe at this time.

Well then, Il'e let it alone till you give another occaſion. And the rather, becauſe I would have you go as ſoon as may be, and ask what Will-worſhip is? That's another word in theſe Witneſſes mouths, of as much efficacy and as little ſenſe as all the reſt, for when they are angry, they charge one another with it as well as us. The Independents were wont to ſay, that it was Will-worſhip to ſet up the office of Ruling Elders in the Church: And I can ſhew you one that calls the Church-Covenant, requiring men to give ſome ſigns of grace, and all the way of Admiſſion of Members into Independent Congregations, by the very ſame Name. And therefore I believe you will ſoon leave ſuch to wrangle it out; and go and ask ſome others, what they mean to bawl ſo againſt Forms. But I believe there is not one of a thouſand can give a reaſon, why he may not as well accuſe the whole frame of Nature as our Liturgy upon this account. Eſpecially if you tell him that there is nothing in Heaven or Earth but hath a Form. That when we underſtand, it is by forming ſome conceptions in our Mind; and that we form our Speech or words to make our conceptions underſtood by others. And therefore even your Prayers muſt be in a Form, or elſe they are ſenſleſs ſtuff; a meer noiſe and ſound that no body can underſtand.

N. C.

We are only againſt ſet Forms.

And ſo many of your Prayers have none at all; but are then thought moſt heavenly, when they are moſt confuſed; and to have much of God in them when they have nothing of Man. For the common word is, I like not Forms, &c. He ſtill ſticks in Forms: He is a dull formal man: Which are Phraſes as ſet and ſtinted as our Prayers. They are never out of uſe, but repeated an hundred times a day. No repetitions they think are bad, but only of the ſame Prayers; nor any other conſtant Forms unlawful, no not of railing and reviling, but only thoſe of Divine Service. Theſe they leave to the wicked, and take the other to themſelves.

N. C.

Pray do not ſay ſo.

I muſt ſay more than that. They hate a Form of Prayer, but love to pray in theſe reviling forms of ſpeech. For they tell God, how a Superſtitious and Antichriſtian way of worſhip hath juſtled out his own Inſtitutions. That men worſhip the Graven Images of their own inventions. That Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek are riſen up againſt them. And the people are taught to go and ſpread their anger and threatnings before the Lord: And to tell him, that it is an angry time, a perſecuting time, a day of great wrath; abundance of anger and wrath, Seaſonable Truths, p. 180 182, 184.and hatred and malice in the bearts of men againſt the people of God at this day: Or as Mr. B. *Nowhis language is in another place, Popiſh men have laid their net privily for us; and we may go to Chriſt and ſay, *Fulneſs of Chriſt, p. 37.Lord pull us out of the net that they have laid for us, for thou art our ſtrength. And, for any thing I can ſee, much of that they call the Power of Prayer conſiſts in ſuch Forms as theſe.

N. C.

Alas! You know not what that power is.

I know it is juſt ſuch another word as Form, which they uſe without any certain-ſenſe, as they are wont to do the Apoſtles words concerning a Form of Godlineſs without the Power of it. This Form of Godlineſs if you will believe ſome, is Praying by a ſet Form *Anſwer of the Miniſters of New Engl. to the firſt Poſition, p. 2., and then the Power of Godlineſs, muſt be praying without one.

N. C.

It cannot be.

It is as I tell you. And this is one of the reaſons that the world hate the Saints; for that the Saints are a praying people: You muſt not miſtake: Forms of Prayer they can indure, Seaſona. Truths, p. 168.but the Power of Prayer they cannot bear. They are Mr. B. his words.

N. C.

No indeed, not if it conſiſt of ſuch railing language as you ſpeak of: But neither you, nor I, it's like, apprehend his meaning.

Do you know what he means when he gives this for another reaſon of the hatred of the world to the Saints; that they deſtroy their Gods, deſtroy their Idols. Men of all things cannot endure to have their Gods deſtroyed: now the people of God do deſtroy the Gods of the wicked, no wonder therefore that they are ſo provok't againſt the Saints and people of God.Ib. p. 167.

N. C.

Not I.

Then you are very dull. He means our Worſhip, which they are wont to rail upon in thoſe terms alſo, calling it Idolatry, worſhipping the Golden Calves, and ſetting up new Gods: which are ſuch rude and beaſtly Clamours, that I am loth to foul my mouth with naming them. They are only vile and abominable Phraſes which every Ignorant wretch can ſerve himſelf of, when he liſts to reproach his Neighbours. At firſt the Presbyterians called Conformity to the Innovations (as they were ſtiled by them) Worſhipping the Golden Calves. Afterward the Independents called the Directory, the Golden Calves of Jeroboam; Edw. Gangr. 1 part. p. 36.52.and affirm'd that this order to help in the way of Worſhip was a breach of the ſecond Commandment. Nay, Mr. Burton, one of the Witneſſes ſaid, that to make a Law about Religion was to ſet up the Golden Calves, or Nebuch adnezzar's Image: Or if you will have another Phraſe for it, to chuſe new Gods and then was war in the Gates, Ib. p. 25.as an Independent Preacher ſaid at Cheſter when they were about to chuſe Lay-Elders. But to be even with them, the Presbyterians threw thoſe Phraſes back again in their faces, and askt the five Brethren: Is the Golden Calf of Independency and Democracy come out of it ſelf, without Aarons making it? And in concluſion one Web (as the ſame man tells us) called the Scripture it ſelf; that Golden Calf, and Brazen, Antapologia, p. 188.Serpent which ſet at variance King and Parliament and Kingdom againſt Kingdom, and ſaid, Things would never do well, till the Golden Calf and Brazen Serpènt were beaten in pieces *. No wonder therefore, if the ſame man ſaid,Gangr. part 1. p. 86. The Scottiſh Nation was the Babyloniſh-Beaſt, Ib. p. 87.

N. C.

I ſhould not have been offended if you had caled ſuch men as theſe, Beaſts; and ſaid they bellowed or brayed (or what you pleaſe) againſt your worſhip; Speaking evil of thoſe things, which they know not. But you are not Ignorant, I hope, that we have a more knowing people than theſe, who are truly Religious and mind ſerious things.

What is this to the purpoſe? I ask for a Pick-ax and you bring me a Spade. We are not talking of ſome ſelect perſons, but of the Multitude; which I affirm are groſly Ignorant. Yet ſince you lead me to it, I muſt tell you there are Serious as well as ſlight follies: And I have reaſon to think there are divers of thoſe who are more ſober than thoſe we now ſpoke of, and paſs for very knowing Chriſtians, that have ſmall skill in any thing but Phraſes. For what greater token can there be of Ignorance than either not to underſtand what a man means, or elſo to ſlight and undervalue what he ſayes, if he declare the Doctrine of Chriſtianity in plain and ſimple words? Nay to complain as if Religion were loſt and the Goſpel gone, if we leave off their Forms of Speech and beloved Phraſes?

N. C.

Now I ſcarce know what you mean?

Do you not remember what a noiſe and clutter there was, when Mr. Baxter began to ſpeak more intelligibly about ſome weighty things in Chriſtianity, than others did?

N. C.

Yes very well. Some thought he taught a new way of Religion, and led us from Chriſt to the Law again.

The reaſon was becauſe he put them very much out of the rode of their Phraſes. This made them fear Chriſt would be taken away from them; and free Grace be deſpiſed, and a Covenant of works reſtored. And for the very ſame cauſe they raiſe ſuch a duſt now againſt many of our Miniſters. They do not hear them talk of getting into Chriſt, and getting an intereſt in Chriſt; and that for this end they muſt get Faith, and go to the promiſe, and eye Chriſt in the promiſe, and cloſe with him in the promiſe, and lay themſelves flat upon the promiſe; and go out of themſelves that the promiſe may enter: All which you think are very myſterious things, becauſe you are Ignorant; for let all the ſenſe that is contain'd in any of theſe forms, be delivered in proper plain and eaſie words, and you deſpiſe it as a thing of naught. Though you talk of Goſpel-light, and Goſpel-diſcoveries, and Goſpel-manifeſtations, yet there is little or nothing all this while to be known or underſtood. Religion you will have to be ſuch a Myſtery, that if a man thinks he underſtands it, he ought to conclude he is not acquainted with it. It is a certain ſign a man hath no skill in it, if he imagine he knows the plain meaning of it. It muſt be look't upon as a Great ſomething: A thing to be ſtar'd at and admired, but no body knows what: At leaſt you cannot clearly diſcover it to us, not withſtanding all the brags we hear of light and diſcoveries.

Hence it is (which is a great argument of their Ignorance) that great numbers of your Religious people, have been ſo eaſily perverted and turn'd to the wildeſt Sects; when as the cleareſt Reaſon that our men can ſpeak will not convince them. What multitudes have ſoon turn'd Anabaptiſts, Antinomians, Familiſts, and Behemiſts; but how few, and with what difficulty, can be brought to the Church of England? This is an evident proof to all conſidering men that they can be made in love with any thing but only Reaſon: And that a Diſciple of Jackpudding ſhall lead greater troops after him, than the graveſt Divine. They will ſooner liſten to a fancy, and are more ready to embrace another pack of new Phraſes; than the ſobereſt ſenſe and the wiſeſt Inſtructions that can be ſpoken.

There is a famous and undeniable inſtance of it in the other, and as you think, the Purer England. Was it not a wonder that the whole Church of Boſtou (ſome few excepted) ſhould become Converts on a ſudden to a daring woman, and be infected with her damnable Opinions? And that,You may find theſe very words in the proceedings of the General Court holden at New-Town, Oct. 2. 1637. againſt Mrs Hutchinſon and others, p. 32.40, 65, 66. though they were eſteemed, Wiſe, ſober and wellgrounded Chriſtians; and ſome of her opinions alſo had the whole Current of Scripture againſt them? Nay, they look't upon her as a Propheteſs (ſuch were her ſpiritual gifts) raiſed up of God for ſome great work now at hand, as the calling of the Jews, &c. So as ſhe had more reſort to her for Counſel about matters of Conſcience, and clearing up mens Spiritual Eſtates, than any Miniſter, (I might ſay all the Elders) in the Country. This they impute to the craft of this American Jezabel: But I have reaſon to think the truer cauſe was the Ignorance of theſe knowing people; who were eaſily cheated by her new Phraſes, and ſoft Doctrines concerning Free Grace, glorious light, and holding forth naked Chriſt: Eſpecially with ſuch pretended.v. Mr. Welds preface, and Error, 25.33.38, 48, 71. &c. Myſteries as theſe, that, Chriſt is the New Creature; that we may have all graces and yet want Chriſt. That there can be no true cloſing with Chriſt in a premiſe that hath a qualification or condition expreſſed; that conditional promiſes are Lagat, and therefore no true comfort can be had from them. That to act by vertue of, or in obedience to, a Command is Legal; that to Evidence Juſtification by Sanctification or Graces, ſavours of Rome; that the Witneſs of the Spirit is merely immediate, without any reſpect to the Word, or omeurrence with it; that the Seal of the Spirit is limited to this immediate Witneſs, and doth never witneſs to any work of grace, or any concluſions of ours. And finally, that the immediate. Revelation of my good eſtate. without any reſpect to the Scriptures, is as clear to me, as the voice of God from Heaven to Saint Paul.

N. C.

There was Witcheraft ſure in the buſineſs.

Yes; of ſweet Doctrines, and glorious phraſes: The pleaſing murmur of myſteries and ſpirituality, of immediate Sealing and witneſſing; of Revelations and manifeſtations of the Spirit. Theſe bewitched the wiſeſt and ſobereſt and well-grounded Chriſtians (becauſe in truth they were Ignorant, and ſtood upon the ground of fancy and imagination) who would have ſtopt their ears like the deaf Adder to the charms of ſober reaſon, ſhould a man have charmed never ſo wiſely. Nor could they ever be diſ-inchanted by all the Arguments and perſwaſions of all the Miniſters in that Country, but ſhe kept her ſtrength and reputation, even among the people of God, Ib. pag. ult.till the hand of Civil juſtice laid hold of her; and then ſhe began evidently to deeline, and the faithful to be freed from her forgeries. So wholeſome ſometime is a little ſeverity: And ſo much is the force of Civil Authority with theſe people, above the ſharpeſt Arguments of Divines. For they oppoſed the Spirit, and their manifeſtations and illuminations, to all their Miniſter's Reaſons; which would do no ſervice at the bar of the Court of Juſtice, where they underſtood none of this language. And now I ſpeak of the Manifeſtations of the Spirit, it is very ſtrange to me, that you ſhould generally expect the Holy Ghoſt ſhould do for you, what Chriſt promiſed at his parting to the Twelve Apoſtles; teach you all things, and guide you into all truth. It is another ſign of great Ignorance in you, and of inſincerity I doubt, in many of your Miniſters; who are afraid to diſpoſſeſs you of this conceit, and to inſtruct you in the plain difference between theſe times and thoſe; but ſuffer, if not teach, you to apply to your ſelves whatſoever our Saviour ſpoke to the Apoſtles alone. A thing which is ſo palpable, that I cannot but wonder men ſhould ſo pervert the Scripture; eſpecially when they ſee there is no ſuch thing, but that thoſe whom they account the people of God, are of ſeveral, nay contrary minds. And that all cannot be in the right, and yet none they think devoid of the Spirit, to teach them all things and lead them into all truth. This ſure makes ſo many think every ſtrong and unuſual motion they find within them, is the work and operation of the Spirit of God. And that every place of Scripture that comes on a ſudden into their mind, is darted from Heaven and the immediate dictate of the Holy Ghoſt: Though never ſo impertinently applied to their preſent occaſions. And that all the ardent affections and tranſports, and raptures they have in prayer or at other ſeaſons, are likewiſe Inſpirations from above; and that now they are filled with the Holy Ghoſt. Which is a groſs and ignorant Concluſion, in my opinion; for want of ſuch obvious conſiderations as theſe; that ſuch heats and flights are common to them with the Heathen Poets, and excellent Orators; and that bad men have had them as well as the beſt: As I am able to ſhew you, if you pleaſe.

N. C.

Some other time if you will; for we have ſpent now a great deal in this kind of diſcourſe.

Let me tell you notwithſtanding, that this, I believe, is one reaſon that your people are filled with ſo many doubts, jealouſies, and fears of being deſerted. When they have not theſe heats; then they think the Spirit is gone; and how to comfort them, it's hard to tell, till they return again. And now I mention this, give me leave to tell you, it is another evidence of great Ignorance, That the minds of well meaning and honeſt-hearted people among you are full of ſo many ſcruples, and ſo uncertain what to reſolve on all occaſions. You may ſay perhaps it is, becauſe their conſciences are tender, and very careful and wary what they do: And ſo you may ſay when you ſee a Blind man tremble and walk ſoftly, and feel his way at every ſtep with his ſtaff, that he is, a very Wary man; when it is not Caution but his want of ſight that makes him ſo diffident. And indeed how is it poſſible they ſhould have any true aſſurance in any caſe, when it is to hard if not impoſſible, to be reſolved in the great queſtion of all, What a man muſt do to be ſaved; and attain the ſatisfaction of knowing that be hath an intereſt in Chriſt? To this, the moſt admired Divines reply, that a man can have no comfort but only by going to the promiſe. O, but ſaith the poor Soul (according as it is taught) I dare not ſo much as look to the promiſe, Mr. Th. Hooker's Poor Doubting Chriſtian drawn to Chriſt. p. 30.I cannot believe it. To this the Anſwer is (p. 115.) That a man ſhall never believe on theſe terms, if he look to have faith beſore he go to the promiſe. For thou muſt not have faith and then go to the promiſe; but, muſt firſt go to the Promiſe for the power of that faith; from it thou muſt receive power to believe. But then how ſhall the Soul go without Faith? Will a Promiſe do him any good unleſs he believe it to be the very Word of God, on which he ſhould truſt? This is an unanſwerable difficulty, as far as I can find. Theſe Divines cannot tell him how he ſhould go to the promiſe ſince it is confeſs'd he muſt go by Faith, and if be look to have faith before be go to the promiſe, he will never have it. They only tell him over again p. 117. and if it will do, well and good: That we muſt not bring faith to the Promiſe; but receive faith from it to believe. Thus the poor Soul is ſent to the promiſe for Faith, and back again to ſaith to lay hold on the Promiſe; but how to do that who can tell? It muſt firſt go to the promiſe to fetch faith; and yet how ſhould it go, if it have no faith? In this caſe how ſhould a man chuſe but be full of ſcruples, and like one that is bewildred and loſt, not knowing what will become of him?

N. C.

I have read the Book, for it uſes to be one of the firſt that is recommended to us, and as I remember he tells you a little after, How a Soul ſhould get to the promiſe.

I thank you for remembring me of it. He moves indeed that queſtion p. 144. But me-thinks he only leads a man into a worſe Labyrinth. For theſe are the Rules to be obſerved how the Soul may get to the Promiſe. Firſt, Throw off all power and ability in thy ſelf. Let the beart lie ſtill, till the wind and tide and promiſe come, and that will carry thee. And yet the Second Rule (which immediately follows) is this, which contradicts the former: Bring the promiſe home to thy heart, that the promiſe may bring thy heart to it. How is this poſſible? I would know how to get to the promiſe; & I am told I muſt lie ſtill, that the promiſe may come to me. And yet at the next breath I am ſent to bring the promiſe home to my heart; which ſuppoſes I muſt go to fetch it. What a caſe am I in now? What Direction can he give me to bring me out of theſe Bryers? Why? To anſwer this doubt, the only way is to unſay this in the third Rule, which ſuppoſes the Promiſe will come of it ſelf, and that I need not bring it home: For it runs in theſe words; When the promiſe is thus come home to thee, and thou ſeeſt the ſufficiency and the Authority of it; then all thou haſt to do is this In the ſtream of that promiſe, be carried home to the promiſe, p. 149.

N. C.

I can make no ſenſe of it.

Nor I neither. But the thing he ſeems to aims is this; that a man muſt only wait till Chriſt aſſures him that he had made all the promiſes to him. For thus he explains the buſineſs. Jacob would not believe that Joſeph was alive till he ſaw the Chariots that were come for him. Theſe ſent from Joſeph to Jacob, brought Jacob to Joſeph. So every believing Soul is poor and feeble; diſabled to go to God and to believe in the Lord Jeſus. Doubting-Chriſtian drawn to Chriſt. p. 148.150.Therefore be muſt look to the Chariots of Iſrael firſt (it ſhould be of Joſeph according to the reſemblance) and that will convey him to the promiſe: and when the chariots are come, get up into them: The Lord Jeſus is gone to heaven and hath ſent theſe chariots for thee; therefore get thee up, and ſay, Lord, take me up with thee. And ſo they did: They got up into I know not what fiery Chariots, and mounted into the Air, and there fancied they ſaw the Lord Jeſus immediately revealing himſelf to them; and ſo carrying them to the promiſe, the abſolute promiſe. And I verily believe theſe Doctrines were they from whence the American Jezabel (as they call'd her) extracted her Poiſons, and by which the people were prepared, to drink of the cup of her Fornication; perſwading themſelves that a man is united to Chriſt and juſtified without Faith, that Faith is not a receiving him, but diſcerning be hath received him already; that a man is united to Chriſt only by the work of the Spirit upon him, without any act of his; that there is a teſtimony of the Spirit and a voice unto the Soul, meerly immediate, without any reſpect unto, or concurrence with the word. And that there are diſtinct ſeaſons of the workings of the ſeveral Perſons; ſo that a Soul may be ſaid to be ſo long under the work of the Father and not the Sons; and ſo long under the work of the Son, and not under the Spirit. And in concluſion, that a man is not effectually converted till he hath full aſſurance, and that this is given immediately; all the activity of a Believer being only to act to ſin. All theſe, I ſay, are the plain ſenſe (if there be any at all in this Book) of what he delivered in more obſcure words.

N. C.

Pray go not about to prove this. For my head begins to turn round already, meerly with the ſcent of theſe intoxicating ingredients.

If theſe Doctrines had been broacht by any of us, you would have found out our picture long ago in the Revelation, and ſaid, that the Church of New England was Thyatira, and this the Jezabel, which called her ſelf a Propheteſs: and that ſuch Divines as theſe were the Prophets of Baal, the Prieſts of Jezabel, and theſe Doctrines the Doctrines of Devils. All which you might have done with a greater colour and ſhew of reaſon, than apply theſe names to our Prieſts. But you are favourable to one another; and wink at ſuch Books as theſe, provided, the Authors be Nonconfurmiſts; and cannot (as you ignorantly ſpeak) bow to Baal.

N. C.

I am glad there are none of theſe Doctrines here in this England.

Thoſe Books are here, and highly admired by ſuch ſound Believers, as take all for Goſpel that ſome men ſay; but can find nothing of Chriſt among thoſe that ſpeak ſenſe and make the Doctrine of Chriſt intelligible. Nay, I can find you Diſciples of ſuch Authors as theſe among your Preachers; who will ſometimes tell you that Chriſt will do all for you; Sips of ſweetneſs, or Conſ. for weak Believers, by John Durant, 1662.and then tell you preſently that ſomething muſt be done by you. Thus one of them introduces the Soul complaining, That the Duggs of Divine love are full, but I cannot ſuck. Anſwer, Be of good comfort, Chriſt will not only open his Boſom, but thy Mouth. But I cannot fetch out the Milk that lies in his Breaſt; I am but weak. Anſwer, Chriſt is ſweet; and with his finger be will force out the Milk of Mercy into thy Mouth; if thou canſt but open thy Mouth. What need he have made an if of it, if Chriſt would open its mouth? and if he will do that and every thing elſe, why did he not make an end of the buſineſs in one word, and ſay, All the Activity of Believers is to act to ſin? And ſo comfort the believing Ewes, who are big with young in a ſinful ſenſe, and ſay—

N. C.

We talkt a little while ago of ſome mens bellowing and braying, and now you are going to fall a bleating.

You are very pleaſant. I hope then it will not offend you, to let you know that I was giving you the explication which this man makes of thoſe words in Iſaiah 40.11. I will gently lead thoſe that are with young, that is, ſaith he (according to the admirable way,Pag. 102, 103. now in faſhion, of expounding the holy Writ) Chriſt will be very kind to thoſe Saints that ſtep aſide (which is called whoring in Scripture) and deal gently with thoſe who are big with young in a ſinful ſenſe; whom, I was going to tell you he comforts thus: O ye ſinning Ewes, who have been big with young, hath not be gone after you, and furned you, and laid you upon his ſhoulders rejoycing *Pag. 114. The very Phraſe of Mr. Hooker. Though thou canſt not find the way to heaven, yet he will find thee, &c. and lay thy Soul upon his ſhoulders, i. e. upon the Riches of the freeneſs of his Grace, p. 149, 150.? It may be thou haſt been wandring like Dinah from thy fathers houſe, & art big with young, and afraid to go home. But fear not; go and try; be will not caſt you out of doors. Though you come with big bellies (to keep to the Metaphor) he will deal gently with thee, though with young. p. 119.

N. C.

We have followed theſe Ewes, or Goats, or what you do pleaſe to call them, too far.

It's true. But at firſt I intended only to tell you, how he deſcribes weak believers: Who have, as Divines ſay, the Faith of Adberence; they will ſtick to Chriſt as theirs; but they want a faith of Evidence, they cannot ſee themſelvs to be his. p. 18.

N. C.

Theſe Divines ſpeak Nonſenſe.

Judg then in what uncertainty the Diſciples of theſe Divines live, who never tell them plainly what Faith is. And what a ſtrange blindneſs they labour with, who cannot ſee (as they ſpeak) that they are Chriſt's; though they perſwade themſelves that he is theirs. Nor do I ſee what ſatisfaction they are like to receive in particular caſes, any more than in this, the greateſt of all. Your Doctrine ſeems to me to be ſo obſcure, that it's hard to come to any ſolid ſetlement or peace of mind. One of your Rules, for inſtance, is that we muſt have a warrant from the word of God for every thing we do: If there be neither Precept nor Practiſe that we can find there to juſtifie an action we intend, it muſt not be done. This without doubt hath woſully inſuared your peoples Conſciences, and is one great reaſon they are ſo full of fears and ſcruples: They have been taught not to rely upon impartial Reaſon, but to ſeek ſtill for a place of holy Scripture to be their guide and warrant. So Mr. W. Bradſhaw (a famous Divine,Defence of his Book of Lots againſt Mr. Balmford. whoſe name I know you reverence) confeſſed to Mr. Gataker; that he was often troubled to ſatisfy ſome in their Caſes propounded to him, though he gave them never ſo good reaſon for his Reſolutions, becauſe they would not therewith be ſatisfied, unleſs he could produce ſome place in Scripture for every particular Thus infinite perplexities, doubts, and ſcrupuloſities muſt needs ariſe in mens minds (as Mr. R. Hooker well expreſſes it) and ſtops and rubs without any end be caſt into the courſe of mens lives concerning their ordinary and civil affairs, if the light of Reaſon ſhall be ſuppreſſed; and men ſhall be conſtrain'd, burn it never ſo clearly, not to proceed by it in ought they are to do, till they have had ſolemn acceſs, firſt to the written Word, and fetch'd light from ſome particular ſentence in it, for the farther confirmation of them therein. And thus I may add, the Scripture came to be baſely wreſted and bended from its proper ſenſe and meaning, to ſerve their particular occaſions. And, in their great Ignorance, they went away better ſatisfied with a fanciful and impertinent application of it to their preſent buſineſs; than if the ſoundeſt Reaſon in the world had been offered to them. Only, this in time was the miſchief of it, that by this means they found a Way to juſtify unlawful Actions, and ſupported their Confidence in thoſe wayes, againſt the moſt evident Reaſon. But it's poſſible you will not regard what I ſay, nor Mr. R. Hooker neither, being one of thoſe you call blind and ſuperſtitious writers. Let me ſend you therefore to Mr. Calvin, who tells you that if you underſtand not your Liberty about things in themſelves indifferent, there will be no quiet in your Conſciences, no end of Superſtitions. Many indeed think, ſaith he, that we are fond to move diſputation about the free eating of fleſh, about the free uſe of dayes, and garments, and ſuch other ſmall trifles, as they think them: But there is more weight in them than is commonly thought. For when Conſciences have once caſt themſelves into the ſnare, they enter into a long and cumberſome way, from whence they can afterward find no eaſie way to get out. If a man begin to doubt, for inſtance, whether he may uſe linnen Sheets,Inſtit. L. 3. cap. 16. Sect. 7. Shirts, Handkerchiefs and Napkins; neither will he be out of doubt whether he may uſe thoſe of Hemp, and after that of coarſer ſtuff, Nay, he will begin to weigh with himſelf whether he cannot ſup without Napkins, and be without Handkerchiefs. If he think dainty meat to be unlawful, at length he ſhall not with quietneſs before the Lord eat either Brown-bread, or Common meats, when he remembers that he may yet ſuſtain his body with baſer food. If he doubt of pleaſant Wine, afterward he will not drink even that which is dead, with peace of Conſcience; laſt of all, he will not be ſo bold to touch ſweeter and cleaner water than other. Finally, at the length he will come to this point, to think it unlawful (as the common ſaying is) to tread upon a ſtraw lying a croſs. For the Queſtion is not light and ſmall, being no leſs than this; whether God will have us do this or that, whoſe Will ought to guide all our Counſels and Actions.

N. C.

I know none that are troubled with ſuch idle ſcruples as theſe.

That may proceed from the dulneſs and ſhortneſs of their thoughts, which never let them ſee into what endleſs Labyrinths their principles will lead them. I am ſure ſuch rules as theſe have been ſo improv'd by your Miniſters, that in an ignorant zeal, they deny you your lawful Liberties, and lay upon you unneceſſary Reſtramts. And on the other ſide intice you to hear controverſies and all manner of Doctrines; ſaying, that no part of the Counſel of God muſt be ſuppreſſed, and conceiving the People would be defrauded, if they were not admitted to theſe diſputations. They make no difference, as my Lord Bacon *Wiſe and moderate Diſcourſe of Church affairs, printed, 1641. ſince publiſhed in his Reſuſcitatio. 1657.obſerved long ago, between Milk and Strong-meat, and, to ſpeak again in his words (which now come to my mind) what I ſaid before in my own; they ſeek to prove every thing by expreſs Scripture, or elſe imagine it is not to be allow'd; and then that conſtrains them to wreſt it, and make conceited inferences and forced alluſions. And as for preaching it hath been in a manner made neceſſary to ſanctifie every Ordinance; which is another very ignorant Conceit. There are many have thought, ſaith he, that it is almoſt of the Eſſence of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, to have a Sermon before it. This hath brought Liturgies, and firms of Divine Service into contempt; and made thoſe to be deſpiſed who had not the faculty of conſtant preaching. As for thoſe that could not preach at all, they have been alwayes reproached by you in ſo ſtrange a manner, that it hath been another occaſion of corrupting our Religion, and bringing the holy Ordinance of God into contempt.

N. C.

It's impoſſible; you ſhould rather ſay the quite contrary.

Hear me a little and then judg. Theſe poor men were in a manner conſtrain'd by your rude clamours, to take upon them to expound the word of God, though very unable for it; and thereby expoſed too early even Preaching it ſelf to the laughter and ſcorn of thoſe that had ſome Wit to diſcern, but no goodneſs to pitty their Weakneſs. They were loth to hear themſelves called Idol-Shepherds, that had Mouths but could not ſpeak a word from God; and ſo rather than endure this reproach they entertain'd the people with their Gloſſes, Paraphraſes, and Diſcourſes, upon the holy Scripture; and called all the Word of the Lord, though never ſo abſurd and ſenſleſs. Silence I confeſs had better becom'd them, than ſtraining themſelves to ſpeak what they did not underſtand: but yet conſider how hard it was to reſiſt the temptation to open their Mouths as oft as they could; whereby at once they might both avoid the contempt and odious brand of a dumb dog; and alſo get a great reputation, with the Ignorant multitude, of an able, painful Miniſter of God's Word.

And as for thoſe who had ſome abilities to expound the Scriptures and exhort the People, they were called upon with ſo much earneſtneſs to preach the Word in ſeaſon and out of ſeaſon, that they knew not at laſt what to preach. They were forced to ſtep up into the Pulpit and make a noiſe, when they had little or Nothing to ſay. By which means the Holy Writings were applied according to their preſent fancy; and handled in a very careleſs and Superficial manner. A bold Face and a ready Tongue were fain to ſupply the place of good Reaſon and well digeſted Thoughts.Fire of the Sanctuary uncovered p. 310. Loudneſs (as Dr. Corn. Burges once told you) was made to ſerve inſtead of matter. For they found if they were but earneſt, the people accounted them very zealous preachers, and imputed their want of matter to their wiſdom and deſire of edifying: Not to their want of ſtudy or ability. And it was their cuſtome to ſay, He preaches to the Conſcience, He ſtands not upon deep learning: He reproves ſin boldly; and if it was other mens, not theirs, ſo much the better. For the very truth is, the people do not love to hear nothing but their duty; or to hear it frequently repeated. And ſome taught them in time to call this Legal-preaching; Goſpel Sermons were then to be contrived; nothing but Chriſt and free Grace to be preached. And becauſe they grew weary even of hearing theſe ſo often over; there, was a neceſſity to device Novelties, or elſe not preach ſo many Sermons. The laſt would by no means be admitted, and ſo the Scriptures were to be ſqueazed, new notions invented, delicate new phraſes coyn'd, and indeed a new Religion made to pleaſe the people. Could it, for inſtance, have entred into the head of any man, from thoſe words of Iſaiah before mentioned, to talk of Believers being big with ſin; and to make ſuch obſervations as theſe, that it is our Glory to be Chriſt's Ewes; and that when a man is big with young, and cryes O my belly, my belly; here is a point of comfort, that Chriſt is ſweet to ſuch perſons; could a man I ſay have ever thought of ſuch things as theſe, but that he was to ſtrain the words as far as ever fancy could ſtretch them; becauſe he muſt have ſoon done with the Text, had he given only the proper ſenſe of it; and the people have ſoon done with him, had he not ſought out ſome new Inventions? They were at leaſt to be courted with ſome ſweet and indearing phraſes, and called O Bleſſed Ewes, O Believing Ewes, and O Believing Bees, that ſuck the honey of ſin hatred, out of the Wormwood of ſin acted: And told, that Chriſt accounts their ſtammerings ſweet: Meih, Meih, ſaith the little one, and the mother counts it Muſick. And ſo no doubt do the people count this puleing ſort of preaching. O he, is a ſweet man ſayes one, an affectionate man ſaith a ſecond; a melting preacher ſaith a third; becauſe he layes them to the Dugs of Chriſts Love, and bids them ſuck, or but open their mouths and cry Meih; of if they cannot, aſſures them Chriſt will do it for them: Not conſidering all this while, that he entertains their fancy with the fulneſs and freeneſs of thoſe Breaſts, and leaves their thoughts hanging and admiring there; meerly becauſe he is dry and empty himſelf, and hath nothing elſe to ſay.

N. C.

O Sir, we find that they are never drawn dry.

You muſt ſay ſo, who can fancy you drink up rivers when they give you but a ſip: and ſee with much ſatisfaction ſome Sips of Chriſt ſtreaming through a poor creature. Epiſt. to the Reader.And truly, as long as there are Streams and Beams, your Poets will never want rhymes, nor theſe Preachers ſtand in need of Reaſon. For Beaming and Streaming will do the buſineſs at any time, and make them paſs for extraordinary men: Eſpecially if they have the confidence to ſay as this man doth, that Chrtſts ſpirit brought that Text (Iſaiah 40.11.) to his hand, and that his ſoul hath taſted ſome ſweetneſs by what Chriſt gave in upon that ſubject. For ſo you muſt believe, if you will be kind and ſweet as he is, that the Holy Ghoſt hath made him overſeet of the flock of God and bid him feed his Lambs, and that Chriſt gave in to him this ſenſe of the prophets words, that he will be ſweet to his believing Ewes, when they are big with Sin. And indeed it is craftily done to intitle Chriſt to their Dotages, for were it not for that; there are ſcarce any ſo ſtupid that would not deſpiſe them. But conſider then how modeſt theſe men are; who had rather Chriſt and his bleſſed Spirit ſhould bear the reproach of being Authors of ſuch abſurd Gloſſes and ignorant Comments; than honeſtly acknowledg that they are the fruit of their own, Fancies; which would ſoon be drain'd, if they did not ſupply them with ſuch Inventions.

N. C.

There's no danger of that; for they are very full men, as you have often heard me ſay.

So they are: very full of impertinent allegations of the holy Scripture, of tautologies, abſurd reſemblances, childiſh fancies, and falſe reaſonings: and yet withall very full of Confidence and ſelf-Conceit, which, to ſay the truth, you are all full of; a very few excepted.

N. C.

You are full of wrath.

That's a part of your pride and ſelf-conceit, to call truth by the name of wrath, paſſion and bitterneſs. And to pretend withall that whoſoever ſpeaks any thing againſt you, is an enemy of God, unacquainted with Religion, a formal, ſuperſtitious, or moral man. But take it as you will, and think of me as you pleaſe, I ſay that, in my obſervation, there is ſcarce a dram of that virtue called Modeſty to be found, I will not ſay in one, but in a whole Country of you. You are generally full of your ſelves, highly conceited of your own underſtanding; impatient of contradiction, in ſo much that my Lord Bacon tells us he knew ſome of your way, who thought it a tempting of God to hear or read what might be ſaid againſt them. By which you may ſee this is no new humour, but runs in the very ſpirit of the party: who cannot think that any underſtand ſo much as themſelves of the things of God; and imagine the Spirit guides them which muſt not ſubmit to reaſon; and that no man hath any true Goodneſs in him, that is not one of them. Upon which account they ever ſuppoſed all men of whom they had any good thoughts, to be of their way in their hearts; nay, all other of any parts to be againſt them, meerly for the love of the World. This I will evidently prove to have been, a long time, the humour, even of your eminent Profeſſors; if it ſhall be contradicted. And it is the cauſe I believe that they complain ſo heavily if any man reprove any of them: as if there could never be found even in good men, ſomething worthy of Reproof; or as if that which we reprove in them, were an undoubted part of their goodneſs. But they will take the liberty, not only to reprove, but to rail upon us, as much as they pleaſe: & ſay, when they have done, as Mr. Saltmarſh did to the Aſſembly, I bope you will pardon me, Epiſtle Dedicat. before his Book againſt Mr. Fuller.if zeal for the truth make me ſee another's faults ſooner than my own. Nay, the ordinary people among you have not the leaſt reſpect to any of our Miniſter's underſtanding and skill, not to ſay his Office and Calling: but, as I told you before, will talk and diſpute with him, and after that reprove and cenſure him as if they were not only his fellows but his judges. Whereas the very ſame men would take it extreamly ill, ſhould any Miniſter take upon him to controll or but direct them in matters of their Trade, to which they have ſerved an Apprenticeſhip: though far more eaſie to underſtand in a ſhort time, than the Holy Scriptures in many years. Proud ſaucy Spirits! who undertake to teach thoſe of whom they ſhould learn: and ſlight, nay ſit in judgment on thoſe, to whom they ought to give great honour; and to whoſe judgment in many caſes they ſhould quietly ſubmit.

It was long ſince the zealous complaint of a holy man (ſaith C. Burges) that men could no ſooner get up their names in the world,Fire of the Sanct▪ uncovered p. 68. and be able readily and confidently to muſter up a few places of holy Scripture nothing to the purpoſe; but they thought themſelves ſufficient to encounter Moſes himſelf, ſetting upon him as furiouſly as Dathan and Abiram ever did. Happy were this Age, had it none of them. To whom it is in vain to ſay any thing, but to them whom moderation hath yet ſome hand over, I ſay this of the ſame ancient Father; Their contumacy I beſeech you, let us flie; their madneſs let us abhorr; leſt we periſh with them in the ſame vengeance.

N. C.

I confeſs I know ſome of this ſpirit; but you grant there are others of more Moderation, that are eminent for their Piety and all other things, who do not forget that they are men.

Our eares are almoſt deafned ſometimes (as Mr. Rathband, one whom you valued, ſaith in another caſe) with the praiſe of ſome of theſe mens eminent Learning, Piety, Sincerity, Zeal, &c. And truly I believe ſeveral of them are learned men, and ſuch as are modeſt, meek, humble, peaceable, and I judg them ſincere. But there are great numbers joyn'd with them, who would be thought the moſt eminent becauſe moſt active in that way; who under colour of zeal of Gods glory, hatred of ſin, deſire of ſerving God in ſincerity; are thruſt by an evil Spirit that hath deceived them, into pride, ſelf love, raſhneſs, unnatural affection; uncharitable ſurmiſes, and moſt unchriſtian judgment of their Brethren.

N. C.

Methinks you judg, and that very hardly, of others.

See your partiality; and that fond Affection you have to your ſelves, and one to another. Thoſe are none of my words, but were long ago ſpoken by ſeveral Miniſters of yours (who had ſome ſcruples indeed about Ceremonies, yet never left our Church) againſt thoſe that ſeparated from it then, as you do now. Is not this to reject that very thing, when it comes out of our mouths, which you readily receive when you hear it from one of your own?

But as to the buſineſs of Judging others, ſince you mention it and it is ſo much talkt of, I openly declare, that I judg no man in things indifferent; as you are wont to do, and as the Jews judged the Gentiles, and St. Paul himſelf. But it is not indifferent whether a man be humble, modeſt and peaceable or not▪ Such I may cenſure, who, for inſtance, are diſobedient to Authority and deſpiſe their Betters and Governors: And it is your great fault to cenſure even thoſe that are obedient, and in things which they profeſs to believe to be indifferent. Is it like good Chriſtians think you, to call thoſe Superſtitious, Will-worſhippers, Complices of the Beaſt, who declare they do not believe any Ceremony they uſe, to be any part of Divine Worſhip, nor neceſſary circumſtances of it; but that they may be altered by Authority, to which they are bound to yield Obedience: And in the mean time to cry out on thoſe who reprove you for down-right Oppoſition to Authority, for clamour, evil-ſpeaking, apparent pride, and ſuch like things; which the Laws of Chriſt judg and condemn, and tell us are manifeſt fruits of the fleſh? You cannot think ſo (ſure) unleſs your underſtandings be ſo ſtrangely blinded by the love of your ſelves, that the cleareſt Truth cannot enter, if it ſhew you your errors. Indeed if a man merely omits to do thoſe things that are commanded; but is not unruly, croſs, clamorous, an oppoſer of Laws, a maker of Parties, and ſeparate Congregations, nor in any other behaviour unchriſtian; I think, I ought to leave him to be judged by Chriſt, who ſearches the ſecrets of mens hearts, and who only can tell whether it be Weakneſs of underſtanding, Intereſt, Humour, Love of reputation, and ſuch like Reaſons that keep him from obeying Laws; or pure Conſcience and invincible Ignorance. But if he be turbulent, a railer or reviler, a ſlighter of human Laws and a Blaſphemer of Dignities; if he be one, that makes Diviſions and Offences, i. e. Sehiſms in the Church; not I, but the Apoſtle judges ſuch a man, not to be a ſervant of the Lord Jeſus Chriſt, but of his own belly. Which that he may provide for, he gives good words, flatters the rich and the great, and is very compliant with all that he hopes to win to be his followers and friends: And he uſes alſo fair ſpeeches (or as Mr. Tyndals tranſlation hath it, ſweet preaching) he praiſes and commends thoſe that follow him, he ſuppoſes them to be the people of God, and pretious ones; he extenuates their faults and magnifies their good deeds; and ſo deceives the heart of the Innocents (as Mr. Tyndal reads it) or, of the ſimple people: Read the place in Rom. 16.16, 17. where the Apoſtle not merely bids, but beſeeches them to mark or obſerve ſuch men as theſe; and tells you for what end; that they might avoid them. But how is that poſſible, unleſs we judg that they are unfit perſons for our company; and that walk not according to the rule of the Goſpel?

N. C.

But you ſhould judg then only for your ſelf; and labour to hide and conceal the faults or errors of your Brethren, For Love covers a multitude of Sins.

Love is to cover what ſins may be covered; but ſome cannot be hid they are ſo publickly committed; and Others may not be hid though they could; becauſe the concealment of them will do hurt to themſelves and others; to the publick and the private Wealth. In which caſe, it were both againſt Piety, Charity, and Prudence to conceal them. And to that paſs are things now come among us, that in both reſpects I think your courſes are not to be covered. Firſt, they cannot; at leaſt in great part, being long ſince made publick to the world, and daily are more and more, by your own printing, preaching, and private inſtilling them into others. Secondly, they may not if they could, ſeeing by forbearance all this while, they have fretted like a Gangrene into the Bowels both of City and Country: And I fear we have kept their Counſels ſo long, that many of them are already paſt cure, and we almoſt remedileſs in our rents tending unto Ruin. Narration of ſome Church Courſes in New England by W. R. p. 51.Nay, do not frown, as if I were too ſharp and ſevere: They are not my words, but ſome of your own againſt the Independent Brethren, and may with as much, or more, juſtice be now applied to you all.

N. C.

I think there are other courſes more dangerous than thoſe, that ought to be lookt after. Prophaneneſs, I mean, is the great thing which both you and we ought to ſet our ſelves againſt; and that, I muſt tell you, abounds more among you than any where elſe.

I cannot tell —

N. C.

What cannot you tell? Whether prophaneneſs ſhould be oppoſed by both with the greateſt Vigour?

Be not ſo fierce. Firſt, I cannot tell whether Prophaneneſs abound more now, than it did in the days when you reigned. I told you the laſt time what the Aſſembly told the Parliament of the ſudden growth of wickedneſs ſince they began to ſit. And I am ſure it was not checkt in the following years; but the ſeaſonable exhortation of the greateſt part of the London Miniſters complained no longer ago than 1660. of the great Wickedneſs broken looſe among us; (which it ſeems was chained and bound up while the Biſhops governed) and, as a great inſtance of it, tell us in the concluſion of that ſad Lamentation, that ſome (as we are credibly inform'd) are grown to that height of wickedneſs as to worſhip the Devil himſelf, p. 10. And then, ſecondly, I cannot tell whether the Wickedneſs that hath ſo much abounded beyond that in Elder days, be not in great part to be imputed to your ſelves: For all the time you declaimed againſt the Ignorance and blindneſs of the people, you caſt many fearful ſtumbling-blocks before them (as an honeſt Suffolk-man told you ſome years agone) while they could not but ſee or hear your ſcornful cenſuring and condemning others; greedy panting after and gaſping at the Riches, Honors,Mournfull Complaint to the Knights and Burgeſſes of that County, 1656. and Preferments of this World; fraudulent circumventing and over-reaching your Neighbours; cruel revenge upon thoſe you judged your Enemies when you had power; bitter quarrelling and contending one againſt another: and yet notwithſtanding all thoſe ſins, which might have juſtly cauſed you to lye in the Duſt, they ſaw you lifted up, boaſting of the glorious times you had made, proudly appropriating to your ſelves the honourable name of Chriſtians, Saints, and the godly Party. Nay, the people were not ſo blind but they could ſee how you meaſured the Saint-ſhip of your ſelves and others, rather by ſome private opinions or ſmall punctilio's of worſhip; than by the great things of Faith, Righteouſneſs, and Mercy. For they found ſome men whoſe profeſſion of Chriſtianity was attended with theſe, accounted no better than civil men; while others were cryed up for Saints and Godly, who were much deficient in them. Beſides, your Miniſters took no care to Catechiſe the youth in the Country: Nay, brought that Ordinance into ſuch Contempt, that to this very day a man is not thought to do his Duty, who ſpends the afternoons of the Lords day, in that inſtruction. They heard nothing but Orations in the Pulpit morning and evening, and thoſe (God knows) very ſorry ones in moſt places. As for the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, a great many honeſt-hearted people were frighted from it. You made ſuch lofty Rails (as he obſerves) about the Table, that few or none of the poor people could come at it: As if you thought it a matter of great piety to confine the Members of Chriſts Body to a little room, and cauſe his Death and Paſſion to be known and remembred only by a few: As if it were an honour to Chriſt and an advantage to the world; that his name and memorial ſhould periſh from the hearts and mouths of a great part of the people profeſſing his Name, and ingaged in Covenant to him. Nay, in many places, they never ſaw it adminiſtred to any at all, for many years: Your Miniſters chuſing rather to deprive themſelves and others of whom they had a good opinion, of this Heavenly Banquet; than afford▪ it to many well-meaning, though no talking people. And ſo while they complained of their living in known ſins; they themſelves lived many years in a notorious omiſſion of this Duty. Sometimes indeed they would invite men to this feaſt; but then by their preaching they hindred and diſcourag'd the moſt if not all in a Country-congregation; as if they were too forward to acknowledg the benefits of Chriſt, and keep up his remembrance. In ſhort, many of them accounted the people no better than Heathens, and upon that ſcore would not baptize their children; and thereby indeavoured to make them ſo, and quite thruſt them out of the flock of Chriſt. O that you would all ſearch your hearts (as that honeſt man ſaid, to find out the true root of this Spirit of Separation, and obſerve narrowly whether under other ſpecious pretences or with ſome pious intentions, there were not a bitter root of pride and haughtineſs, cauſing you to affect ſingularity, and deſire to appear alone to the view of men; thinking it below your worth to be found in Communion with thoſe, whom in opinion you have laid ſo much below your ſelves.

But let that be as it will; Thirdly, I cannot readily tell which are worſe, the Publicans and Harlots, or the Scribes and Phariſees. This I know, that there have a long time been a great many of the laſt, who juſtified themſelves and lookt upon all others as abominable. Dr. Burges *Fire of the Sanct. uncov. an. 1625. in the preface.I remember tells us with a great confidence, that thoſe who kept heretofore ſuch a frantick coyle about ceremonies, and thought they never took their level right, but when at every bolt they ſhot, they ſtruck a Biſhops cap ſheire off his head; were more fantaſtical, Ignorant, Proud, ſelf-willed, negligent and deceitful in their particular callings, than many whom they deſpiſed, and condemn'd to hell for Carnal men: As any obſerving Eye might eaſily diſcern. Now what to think of theſe men in compare with the other, let honeſt Martin Bucer tell you, who was one of the firſt Reformers, and whoſe name I know you cannot but reverence as well as I, on many accounts.

N. C.

How do you know what Martin Bucer ſaith?

I underſtand a little Latin; and beſides I have ſeen the latter part of his Comments on the Prophet Zephaniah tranſlated into our tongue; where he tells us, towards the Concluſion, That there were ſome among them under a pernicious Miſtake, abhorring only theſe groſs things, to wear brave clothes, to fare deliciously, to drink and ſwill, to whore, to heap up riches carefully, to be Uſurers, and others of the like Kind; but in the mean time, Arrogance, faſtidious diſdain of their Brethren, to languiſh about frivolous queſtions, factions, reproach of God's Word, ſlanders againſt his Miniſters, eaſily to believe lies, and being raſhly believed or (or perhaps by an evil ſuſpition ſuggeſted) to ſpread and ſcatter them abroad; theſe and ſuch like things, ſaith he, paſs with them ſometimes for Virtues. Nay, they think themſelves thrice Holy, while they walk about with a ſtoical Superciliouſneſs, bended Brows and ſad Countenance; while they wear mean clothes, and rattle all mortals in the ear, not ſo much with grave Words as with claps of Thunder; crying out, that all is naught and wicked. That which I have experience of, as he goes on, and have good aſſurance of its truth by certain obſervation, why ſhould not I teſtifie to the Glory of Chriſt and the Admonition of the Brethren? Of thoſe who abound ſo much in accuſing the vices of others, whom every Garment that is a little more neat, every little Entertainment that is more plentiful, every Word that is more merry and pleaſant doth much offend, that are always complaining concerning the want of Excommunication; I have found very few (that I may not ſay none) who do not labour with remarkable conceit of themſelves, inſufferable contempt of their Brethren, incredible impatience of any neglect of them, and ſometime with other more grievous Evils. Beſides that they are in a manner alway addicted to new and ſtrange Opinions; which tend only to Schiſms and nothing to Edification. Now Hereſie is a fruit of the fleſh, and doth far more miſchief than all Drinkings, Whorings, or Adulteries. On the other ſide, among thoſe perſons whom they deteſt no leſs than Heathens becauſe of a life more remiſs, and the riches of the World, and a certain ſplendor or bravery; I have found very many who as they acknowledg themſelves obnoxious to ſin, ſo they think of themſelves moſt humbly, and of their Neighbours moſt Benignly: they are very candid in their Thoughts and equal in their Judgments concerning others; always accounting themſelves the worſt, &c. And when the Croſs that they have deſerved lies upon them; nothing is more patient than they; none hazard themſelves more for the Lord. Theſe things I have certain knowledg of, and why may I not declare them to his Glory? And I call him to witneſs, that in ſpeaking this, I mean nothing leſs than to ſet any brand on a more ſevere mortification of the fleſh, and renouncing of worldly things; or to incourage thoſe that live remiſly, or indulge any deſire of the fleſh: No, I pray the Lord that he would give me and all his choſen grace, to uſe ſtill more ſparingly, the things of the body, our ſelves, that we may impart them more liberally to the Poor. May we have grace alſo, ſo to obſerve our Tongues that even a little Idle word do not eſcape us, but all that is ours may be directed to Profit and Edification. I have written theſe things and annexed them to my Comments (God knows) for no other cauſe, but that I might admoniſh the Brethren who have the grace to live frugally and ſeverely, and to be free from outward Offences; firſt of all, diligently to watch the Devil leſt he infeſt them with inward ones: and while he permits them to avoid thoſe external Vanities and Delicacies, he bring them in love with inward and far more miſchievous Evils; that is, to pleaſe themſelves, and to delight themſelves in the condemning of others; and then to ſport themſelves, and play the wantons idlely in novelty of opinions; from whence break forth openly, Grudgings and Hatreds; then Factions, Sects and unſpeakable Scandals in the Church. That which follows I ſhall omit, as not being ſo much to my preſent purpoſe (though otherwayes worthy of your notice) which was to ſhew what opinion wiſe and holy men have had of that Spirit, which now rules in you: and ſo conclude what we are to direct our zeal moſt againſt, and aſſault with the greateſt vehemence. For your part; it is manifeſt you oppoſe Conformity with might and main; and ſtudy by all means to keep up the Separation: as for Us; it is your deſire we would ſet our ſelves wholly againſt Prophaneneſs, and let you alone. But we cannot thus abandon our ſelves, and throw off all care what becomes of our Church. We hate prophaneneſs and are reſolved to oppoſe it; but we hate Pride and ſelf-conceit and faction and Separation, and we are reſolved to beat down theſe too. And I muſt tell you withall, that our Bleſſed-Saviour was more frequent and more ſevere in his reproofs of the Scribes and Phariſees (how like you and thoſe of Mr. Bucers time are to them, let the impartial judg) than he was of the Publicans and Sinners. And, whatſoever you think now, heretofore I am ſure your Miniſters granted thus much, that the Devil▪ Gain's more by Schiſms, than by coldneſs in Religion; and that he had rather draw men from their firſt love to a fiery and indiſcreet Zeal, Confut. of the Separat. agreed upon by many Miniſters and publiſhed by Mr. Rathband 1644.than to lukewarmneſs and indifference. For firſt, hereby he ſtaggers many others who were well ſetled, and makes them children again in underſtanding, and turns them about with every wind of Doctrine; and ſecondly he deprives thoſe men of the happy means of recovery, which they might have eaſily enjoyed, had they remained in the fellowſhip of the Church. And would to God you would once more ſadly conſider, whether thoſe many revolts that ſince the firſt ſeparation have been made from your gathered Congregations, to monſtrous Opinions and filthy Practices, have not been a juſt Puniſhment of you, for your too high Valuation of your ſelves and uncharitable ſeparation from us. What conſtruction you make of ſuch things we know not (they are the words of the Honeſt man I mention'd before) but to us that are more Ignorant it ſeems very ſtrange, that,Mournful Complaint. whereas you fiſhed with ſo great a Maſh that ſcarce one of a hundred was taken by you and admitted into your Churches; out of this hundreth part of yours, more ſhould be found revolting to abſurd, fooliſh, nay pernicious Opinions, than of the Ninety nine parts you left behind. It ought in my poor opinion to put you into a juſt ſuſpition, and ſerious re-examination of that way, from which there is ſo eaſie a tranſition to ſo many dreadful deluſions; and through which ſo many have already paſſed over unto the enemy.

N. C.

Let thoſe examine who are moſt concern'd in it. My mind is full of ſomething elſe.

What's that?

N: C.

You have repeated ſo often the Schiſm (as you call it) or Separation that is made from your Church; that I perceive it is the great thing that ſticks in your ſtomack, and which angers and frets you ſo much. And indeed Mr. Bridge told us it would do ſo, in one of thoſe Sermons you mention ſo oft. The Saints and people of God, Seaſ. Truths Sermon 6. p. 166.ſaith he, they withdraw from the men of the World, and do ſeparate from them. Now when we withdraw from men and from their worſhip, we condemn their Worſhip; and the men of the world do not love to be condemned. To ſeparate from them and from their Worſhip, this they cannot bear. The Saints do ſeparate from them, and therefore there is ſuch a deal of anger and wrath in their hearts againſt them.

Alas! Good man; Doth he think we have ſuch an opinion of him and his Saints, as they have of themſelves? He flatters himſelf too much. It is one thing to imitate the Saints, and another thing to counterfeit them. He ſhall never perſwade me that quick-ſilver is better than gold; and that turbulent and affrighted Imagination can be a ſurer guide either in the choice or exerciſe of our Religion, than a calm Reaſon, and a fixed well-reſolved Judgment. Let him call himſelf and his party Saints a thouſand times, or as oft as he breathes; it ſhall never move me at all, nor ſhall I think the worſe, but the better, of my ſelf for being none of them. Let him pride himſelf in new devices, of a different worſhip for the Saints and the reſt of the world, I am very well contented, if they will but withdraw themſelves far enough from us, and let us be out of the hearing of their Gibberiſh. Let him lead them to the Indies if he pleaſe, and be ſeparated from us by the wide Ocean; it will be a great ſatisfaction to enjoy our worſhip quietly*Yet you muſt not hope for this; For they muſt ſtay to power forth the Vials, which next to the Separating from us, is the thing that provokes the Antichriſtian party. For they are to torment the men of the world, and make them gnaſh their teeth, and bite their tongues for pain. As he tells you afterward. pag. 179. to our ſelves. Or rather let him retire into his Cloſet, and think no company in the world pure enough for him but his Books, and no Books but his own; his preciſeneſs, I aſſure him, ſhall never trouble me at all. And I ſuppoſe I may paſs my word for our whole Church, that they will not complain for want of his company; nor think it any diſgrace to our Worſhip that ſuch do not like it, or perhaps abhor it; nor any ſhame to themſelves that they will have no Communion with us. There were alwayes people of a moreſe and ſowr humour whom nothing can pleaſe; no not what they do themſelves, when once it pleaſes others too. They muſt be of a contrary Opinion to the whole race of mankind: And hate ſome things, only becauſe others love them. And therefore if they not only withdraw themſelves from us, but alſo ſlight us and ſet us at naught; the concern is not ſo great, as to require my care. Let them call Us the World, and if they pleaſe, the Dogs that are without the Holy City; I value it no more than the barkings of an angry Cur: Though in his vain conceit of himſelf and party, he imagines we lay their diſreſpect to us mightily to heart. For this you know is another cauſe which he is pleaſed to aſſign, why the men of the world are angry with them. The Saints and people of God do not regard the men of the World; and the men of the World they think ſo. Now for high and lofty men to be ſlighted and not regarded, this makes them angry. For which he cites Dan 3. and then repeats it. They cannot bear this, that they ſhould not be regarded; high and great men, that they ſhould not be regarded: and therefore no wonder there is ſuch a great deal of wrath and anger in their hearts againſt the people of God. But let him repeat it as oft as he will; tell him from me, that it moves us not at all to want their regard; for we do not think our ſelves honoured by their Eſteem and Reſpect. It is rather a reproach than an honour to be commended and praiſed by ſuch mouths, as value a compoſed countenance and a Sett of phraſes; more than the moſt compoſed and regular life, and the beſt ſenſe in the world. Let them ſlight us therefore ſo much, if they liſt, as not to move their Hat, or give us the time of the day, or turn their face another way when they chance to meet us; it is all one, we ſhall have never the worſe opinion of our ſelves or of our Worſhip. We do not think them ſo able to judg of true worth, or to diſcern between true and falſe, good and bad, as to concern our ſelves about their Opinion: theſe being almoſt the ſame thing now adays, and though all undertake to judg, yet few know the difference. We have ſomething elſe alſo to ſupport us than their favourable opinion of us; and that is, a ſincere care with unblaſſed affections to ſearch after the Will of God; and a readineſs to receive and do it, whenſoever we know it. Let him bring us Reaſons in ſtead of confident aſſertions, and ſee if we will not ſtudiouſly conſider them; and if they be good, yield to them. He ſpoke admirably who ſaid, that our Reaſon ought to yeild obedience to nothing but Reaſon: and that Authority is a yoke which none but God hath a right to impoſe upon our judgments. If God ſay it, that's reaſon enough: but we ſhall never be perſwaded that they only hear or underſtand what he ſayes. Let them talk as if they had not only ſlept in our Saviour's Boſom (as a Gentleman I remember ſometime ſaid) but even watch't in his heart and ſoul, and as if there were none of his intentions hid from their knowledg: They will never gain the greater credit with us, unleſs we ſee more than words and confidence. No, though they ſhould not only contemn and ſcorn us as altogether ignorant in the things of God, but pronounce Anathema's and Curſes againſt us as the limbs of the Apocalyptick Beaſt; Heaven we know laughs them to ſcorn, and we ſhall ſmile at their ridiculous preſumption. The Wolves we know will never be reconciled with the Shepherds flock; and when we have done all that we can, there will be an Envious and Malitious Generation, who like the Rats and other imperfect Creatures (which it is poſſible were bred in the Ark it ſelf) will ſtill be gnawing the reputation, even of the beſt Church in the World. Every thing under Heaven is abuſed; yea, and what Heaven it ſelf hath ſpoken is not ſafe from Injury and Violence; and therefore why ſhould we look to have a general reſpect, or be caſt down or angry either at the neglect of theſe men, or, if they pleaſe, their Contempt and Reproach?

N. C.

You ſay you are not angry, but methinks you are in a great heat.

Not at their ſlighting us, I aſſure you.

N. C.

What then?

I told you, that I profeſſed a juſt indignation at ſome things; & more particularly to ſee the Scripture ſo: wretchedly abuſed & wreſted, even in this very caſe, to juſtify their Separation and with-drawing from us.

N. C.

You mean, I believe, that to the Corinthians, cited by Mr. Bridge. Come out from among them, and be ye ſeparate, 2 Pag. 166.touch no unclean thing. 2 Cor. 6.17.

Yes.

N. C.

And doth it not require us to have no Communion with the wicked, of which your Congregations we think are full?

But do you think then we are all Pagans and Infidels; i. e. ſuch people as do not ſo much as acknowledg Jeſus Chriſt to be the Lord?

N. C.

God forbid.

Then you apply thoſe words impertinently to us (as you do the reſt of the Scriptures) who are nothing like thoſe, from whom the Apoſtle would have the Corinthians withdraw. It is an exceeding great ſhame that you have been ſo long turning over the Bible, and talking of the word of God; and yet not underſtand ſo plain a thing as this. You ſeem to me to be like thoſe the Apoſtle ſpeaks of in another Epiſtle; who are ever learning, but never come to the knowledg of the Truth. Nay, you are like little children that tear and rend their Book into little ſcraps; or like thoſe imperfect creatures, I ſpoke of before; you nibble at a bit of the Scripture, and inſtantly ſtart away, and leave all the reſt. Could you not have caſt your eye back but to the 14. verſe? There you might have ſeen who they are the Apoſtle ſpeaks of. Be ye not unequally yoked together with Infidels, ſaith he, i. e. Either do not marry an infidel, or do not joyn with them in any of their rites belonging to their Idolatrous ſervice. Be not at their Idol feaſts; the thing he admoniſht them of in the former Epiſtle, and touches upon here again (as ſome think) leſt they ſhould not be cautious enough in this particular. For the Apoſtle having told them an Idol was nothing, they might hold theſe feſtival entertainments to be indifferent things, and ſo when their kinsfolk, or friends invited them, not deny that Civility, to accompany them to their Temples. Stay, ſays the Apoſtle, conſider what you do. What fellowſhip hath righteouſneſs with unrighteouſneſs, &c. theſe things are as contrary as Light and Darkneſs, you cannot partake of the Table of the Lord and the Table of Devils too; as he told them in his firſt letter. And then he renews his Exhortation, Come out from among them, and be ye ſeparate (from thoſe Idolatrous Infidels) touch no unclean thing; meddle not with their Idolatrous ſervices, nor any of their wicked ways. You would be more aſſured that this is the ſenſe, if you would but turn to the place from whence theſe words are cited (as the Margin directs you) Iſa. 52.11. where the Prophet bids not the more holy ſort of Jews to ſeparate from their prophane Brethren; but the whole Body of the Jews to flye out of Babylon; as any body may ſee that reads the place: And therefore they cannot be urged without a notorious force to prove ſuch a ſeparation as you are in, of one part of a ſociety profeſſing belief in Chriſt, and baptized into his name, and renouncing all Idols whatſoever; from the other. And ſo Mr. Geree I remember, a diſcreet Presbyterian, confeſſed, and explained the words to the ſame purpoſe that I do. And ſo did a noted perſon long before him*Arin. 1610. Mr. Rich. Bernard plain evidence p. 140, 141, &c. and far more largely, in his diſpute againſt the Browniſts. For I muſt tell you, thoſe old Separatiſts, condemned by all honeſt Nonconformiſts in former times, ſought to juſtifie their Schiſm, from the Church of Chriſt from this very place: and the very truth is, ſo did the Ancient Donatiſts. Who, to make a fair ſhew for their fearful Schiſm, cryed out juſt as you do now, Come out from among them, touch no unclean thing: Depart, depart: Separate your ſelves. Have no fellowſhip with the unfruitful works of darkneſs. Be not partakers of other mens ſins: What hath the Chaff to do with the Wheat? which are the very words now Ignorantly imployed by your Party againſt us; with as little knowledg of their ſenſe and meaning, as of their being the rotten Tools wherewith thoſe Schiſmaticks ſought to overthrow the whole Church.

Friendly Debate with Non-Conformist Part 2, Text (3 of 5)