Answer to Book by Romish Priests, Doctrine 31
XXXI. That the Saints deceaſed, know not what paſſeth upan Earth.
Anſwer.
NO; not every thing that here paſſeth, as his words ſeem to import. For ſo Aquinas *Pars I. Q. XII. Art. 8. ad 4.himſelf reſolves, ſpeaking of the knowledge of the Bleſſed in Heaven, Though it be the natural deſire of a rational Creature to know all things which belong to the perfection of its underſtanding (which are the ſpecies and kinds of things, and the reaſons of them, &c.) Yet to know particulars, and the thoughts and actions of them, belong not to the perfection of a created underſtanding: nor doth its natural deſire tend to this. The very ſame ſay we; and a little more: they may know ſome particulars, at ſome times; but not all, at all times. And let us hear what this vain Talker hath to ſay to the contrary.
XVI. Luk. 29.Firſt, He ſays, out of XVI. Luke 29. That Abraham knew there were Moſes and the Prophets Books here on earth, which he had never ſeen when he was alive. What a Ninny is this! who undertakes to prove they know what paſſeth here at preſent (or elſe he doth nothing) by proving they know what is paſs'd and gone long ago: Which they may know, and not underſtand what is done at this inſtant. Beſides, if they know ſome ſuch general things, it doth not prove they know all particulars: For inſtance, what I am now writing about this matter. St Auſtin, in that Book he mentions,*L. de cura pro mortuis. doth indeed ſay, Abraham knew of Moſes: But in the very ſame Book, and the Chapter foregoing (C. 13.) he expreſly ſaith, the ſpirits of the dead are there, Where they do not ſee whatſoever things are done, or come to paſs, in the life of men. And in the ſame place he alledgeth, LXIII. Iſa. 16. to prove, That Abraham and Iſrael did not know what is done in this world, nor how their children fare. And (to confound this man, and all ſuch falſe pretenders to Learning) he ſaith, in that very Chapter quoted by him (which is the 14th. not the 24th. for there are not ſo many Chapters in the Book) in expreſs terms, he knew thoſe things, not while they were a doing when they were alive, but being dead he might know them from Lazarus; and thus he reſolves, leſt it ſhould be falſe which the Prophet ſaith, Abraham knows us not. And then immediately begins the next Chapter, in this manner, It muſt be confeſs'd therefore, that the dead do not know what is done here, while it is doing; but may hear it afterwards from thoſe, who dying, go from us to them. Not all things indeed, but ſuch as they are ſuffered to relate, and ſuch as they are ſuffered to remember, and ſuch as are fit for them to hear. They may hear ſomething alſo from the Angels, &c. It would be too long to Tranſcribe the reſt; and this is ſufficient to convince thoſe that have a mind to underſtand the truth, how little credit is to be given to ſuch men as this, Who to give us farther proofs of his folly, alledges, V. John. 45.V. John 45. to prove the Saints know what's done here. When it's evident our Saviour doth not ſpeak of Moſes his Perſon, but of his Writings, or Laws; as he himſelf could interpret it in the foregoing place.
XII. Rev. 10.And who for ſhame (to uſe his own word) but ſuch a man as he, would quote the XII. Rev. 10. to prove the Saints muſt know what is done on Earth, becauſe the Devil doth; whoſe buſineſs it is to go to and fro (which the Saints do not) while he ſeeks whom he may devour: And to prove likewiſe the Devil knows what's done, becauſe he lays falſe accuſations to the charge of good Chriſtians. So this Text ſignifies, as Menochius himſelf expounds it; The accuſer, ſaith he, is the backbiter, the calumniator, the detractor, who accuſes the Saints with falſe criminations, and calumnies, as anciently he did Job. A moſt excellent argument to prove the Devil knows what is done here, becauſe he is a lyar, a falſe accuſer, who tells what was never done. Will people never open their eyes, and ſee the ſenſeleſsneſs of theſe men, who trouble the World with their Brain-ſick Diſcourſes?
He promiſed expreſs Scriptures, and perpetually falls into pitiful arguing. As he doth here upon another Scripture in the Old Teſtament, 2 King. VI 12. where, becauſe Eliſha is ſaid to know what the King of Iſrael ſaid in his Bed-chamber, 2 Kings VI. 12.he concludes that he knew by the light of Prophecy, even the inward thoughts. And what it God had revealed this to him (which he did not) would it follow that he knew the words and the thoughts of all Iſrael? And becauſe he knew what the King ſaid in ſecret, at ſome time, that he knew what he and all his People ſaid at all times? Theſe are extravagant Conceits; fit only for men in B…dlam. What the light of glory, as he calls it, can make the Souls of the Bleſſed underſtand, we cannot tell: but they are not capable to underſtand all particulars, as you heard before. And therefore St. Auſtin *Cura pro M…tuis, c. 14., in the Book and Chapter before-quoted by himſelf, argues quite otherwiſe: that it doth not follow, becauſe the rich man told Abraham how many Brethren he had, therefore he knew what his Brethren did, and what they ſuffered at that time. In like manner, he would have argued, no doubt, in any other caſe, if there had been occaſion; that becauſe the Saints, for inſtance, know ſome things which they are told by others from this World, we muſt not infer that they know other things beſides them.
That which follows is like this, but much worſe. For becauſe Eliſha, 2 Kings V. 26.2 Kings V. 26. being afar off, as he ſays, ſaw all that paſſed between Naaman and Gehaſi, therefore the Saints, he concludes, ſee what paſſes in this World. What mad ſtuff is this? Eliſha was not afar off, for the Text ſaith expreſly, v. 19. Naaman was departed from him a little way, when Gehaſi ran after him. And in the very ſame Book we find, that though Eliſha knew this thing, at ſome diſtance from him, yet he did not know another, which was as eaſie to know, viz. That the Shunamite's Son was dead, 2 King. IV. 27.
And how doth St. Paul's being wrapt into the Third Heaven (which is his next proof) give us any reaſon to believe that they who are there, know what is done upon Earth? Theſe things hang together, like Harp and Harrow.
Nor doth it appear that St. Stephen ſaw from Earth, as far as Heaven. Our Saviour indeed preſented himſelf unto him, ſtanding (not ſitting, VII. Acts 55.as this man quotes it) at the right hand of the Divine Glory; which then alſo appeared. But ſo it had done, in ancient times, in the very door of the Tabernacle; where the Congregation of Iſrael ſaw it without looking as far as Heaven. But if we take it otherwiſe; it doth not follow, that becauſe God can make his Divine Glory ſhine from Heaven to Earth, therefore any one can ſee from Earth to Heaven, or from Heaven to Earth. Much leſs, that the Saints can always ſee what is done here on Earth: For St. Stephen could not alway behold the glory of God, and our Lord ſtanding at his right hand; but only at that time, upon an extraordinary occaſion, when God in an extraordinary manner ſhone upon him.
All his own Divines will tell him, that Arguments are not to be drawn from Parables: ſuch as that of the Rich man and Lazarus, (to which he makes his next reſort). For if we allow that way of reaſoning, then he may prove from hence, that we and the Saints may talk together, though at this diſtance one from another; as the Rich man did with Abraham, and Abraham with him. Of all the ways that have been invented, to ſhew how the Saints may know what we do; there was never any ſo extravagant as this, of their ſeeing from Heaven what is done here.
I believe the Reader is weary of ſuch Diſcourſe as this; eſpecially if he lookt for expreſs Scripture; which this man bad him expect. Therefore I ſhall not exerciſe his patience, with any further notice of what he ſaith, about the Communion of Saints, which may be without the leaſt knowledge they have of us, or we of them: as appears by the Communion of all the Members of Chriſt's Body here on Earth; ſome of which never heard of, or have ever ſeen the other.
Look never ſo long in the other Scriptures he quotes, you will find nothing in them to the purpoſe. And the firſt of his Fathers is a Counterfeit; the two next we ſhall meet withal preſently, to prove we may pray to the Saints; which is the drift alſo of this Diſcourſe.