Full Answer to Apologetical Narration, Text (8 of 8)

Full Answer to Apologetical Narration · Text (8 of 8)

p. 271And withall to consider us as those, who in these former times, Apolog.for many yeares suffered even to exile, for what the Kingdome it selfe now suffers in the endeavour to cast out, and who in these present times, and since the change of them, have endured (that which to our spirits is no lesse grievous) the opposition and reproach of good men, even to the threatning of another banishment, and have been through the grace of God upon us, the same men in both, in the midst of these varieties; And finally, as those that doe pursue no other interest or designe but a subsistance (be it the poorest and meanest) in our own Land (where we have and may doe further service, and which is our birth-right as we are men) with the enjoyment of the ordinances of Christ (which are our portion as we are Christians) with the allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse, as not knowing where else with safety, health and livelihood, to set our feet on earth.

For my part I wonder with what face you can write this, And withall to consider us as those who in these former times, for many yeares suffered even to exile, and bring it as an argument to the Parliament to consider you the more, namely to grant you a toleration. All the answer I shall returne is, that the Parliament and Kingdome shall and may doe well to looke upon you, and consider you instead of many yeares suffering even to exile, as men who voluntarily went into another Countrey nigh at hand, to live safely out of gun-shot, and there lived richly, plentifully and freely, whilest other godly Ministers lived here in continuall feares, dangers, tossings, suspensions, attachments and consumptions of their estates: It is strange that men should be so farre partiall, as to frame an argument, and make account the more to be considered and favoured for flying away, and deserting the Cause in the open field: Suppose some Captaines and Souldiers in the Parliaments service should put up a petition to the Houses, forasmuch as they left the rest of the Army in distresse, and withdrew in the day of battaile, and never returned till the enemy was put to the worst, and the battaile turned, therefore they would be pleased to afford p. 272them an exemption from common taxes, &c. and vouchsafe them some speciall priviledge, what would you think of such a motion? the application is obvious, you deserted the Cause, and in as much as in you lay hazarded all, and yet are not content with this, to come in upon the victory, and divide the spoiles with those who helped to winne the field, to enjoy the prime Lectures and places in and neare the City, both of note and profit with all respect and countenance from Parliament and City, but you would have Peculiars, and enjoy such a way as should shut out all in comparison, an unreasonable request, and a strange instance for all posterity if it should be granted: For our parts many of us who bore the heate of the day, stood to it and ventured breaking and undoing many times over, request no such favour nor exemption, but to take our lot in common with the Kingdome and Ministers in things established; and I know no reason that upon any considerations either extrinsicall or intrinsicall you should be considered above the godly Ministers of the Church of England: I know and could give many to the contrary, but besides that I have before fully spoken (more then once) how little there is in this argument of yours so often inculcated of exile, and suffering to exile, the cause here rendred by you of your suffering even to exile, namely for what the Kingdome it selfe now suffers in the endeavour to cast out, is not true, nor proper: For however the Kingdome now suffers for casting out the Hierarchie, and some corruptions in worship, and for a Reformation according to the word of God, and the example of the best reformed Churches, yet your suffering unto exile was not for that (for which the non-conformists more forward then you suffered) but your leaving the Kingdome was to enjoy the Church way, without which (we suppose) you will not be contented though Ceremonies, Episcopacie and Lyturgie be now cast out by the Kingdome, as the fruit of all their sufferings, but if Presbyterie be setled, and Independencie may not be tolerated you will goe away the second time and may be call that exile and banishment too: As for your enduring in these present times and since the change of them, that which to your spirits is no lesse grievous, the opposition and reproach of good men, by which you would further perswade and move the Parliament to allow you a p. 273Toleration, let me minde you that I beleeve in no age five men practising, and acting as you have done contrary to the Judgement of all the Churches, and of the Ministers your brethren, and that to the sensible disadvantage of the publique Reformation, ever met with lesse opposition and contradiction of good men, and as for reproach none at all: I will not reiterate what I have formerly expressed in pag. 226, 227. but it is beyond all president the silence, compliance, respects, faire carriage you have been entertained with from the Ministers, and good men, neither Luther that eminent servant of God and excellent Instrument, nor others could finde the like in their time from the Ministers differing from them, and therefore the complaint is very groundlesse, and to speake truth, you were so much the peoples Darlings and Favourites having such a power both with the people, and with many in place, that not to oppose or reproach your persons, but your opinions, and that but collaterally and interpretatively was enough to unsaint many men as good as your selves, and to blast them with many for the present; As for that comparison, the opposition and reproach of good men as grievous to your spirits as suffring Exile, I conclude your Exile was very gentle then, and I judge both much alike grievous, that is neither; but what tender spirits have you? and what constitution are you made of? that a little opposition, and reproach of good men… (especially having with it so great applause, and high esteeme to over-ballance it) should be so grievous to your spirits as many yeares suffering even unto exile: Many of us have and doe endure great oppositions, reproaches, revilings, and stornes from those who would be thought not onelyonly good, but the best men, with many neglects; slightings, desertings, and ingratitude, from whom we had all reason to have expected the contrary, and all this in the shade without any one beame of speciall favour / shining upon us (which though we could not but see, and take notice of all along, and cannot but upon this occasion upbraide the unthankfulnesse of many people, leaving all to God to cleare our righteousnesse, and to convince them) yet we have made no complaints to the world, nor written Apologies for our selves, but through the grace of Christ have in patience possessed our soules without much grievousnesse to our p. 274spirits, our Consciences within us witnessing we have suffred all this for our faithfulnesse to God and to his people, and for no other cause given to them; and if opposition and reproach from good men be no lesse grievous then Exile, some of us who have been Anti-Independent have suffered a sore Exile more yeares then you the Apologists: For besides our reproaches during the time of your Exile in Holland, we have since your returne from Exile even to this present day suffered many reproaches, and lost all manner of wayes, in name, estate, and friends, for nothing else but for appearing against the Brownists and Independents, and how much in the meane time most of you have gained all manner of wayes is written with a sun-beame: But what is this opposition and reproach from good men you have endured no lesse grievous then an Exile for many yeares: you say even the threatning of another banishment: Is the threatning of another banishment so grievous a matter, that you here present it to both Houses, as a motive to perswade the Parliament to grant you a Toleration, Threatned folkes (they say) live long, and so may you, you are not yet banished, nor used as men likely to be banished; besides, the good men that threatned it had no power to performe it; Banishment belongs not to them, I can hardly beleeve it that such high and confident men as you are should be so troubled with threats, (especially from men in whose power it lies not,) but you are willing to make any thing an Argument to both Houses to consider you in that point: If one or both Houses had threatned you banishment, that might have beene as grievous to you as your former Exile, but for any of your fellow-Ministers you might have threatned them againe, and have stood upon equall termes, I know in some cases, and could name how some of you have done it, and when words have been spoken to you about your opinions by some Ministers, you have given as good as was brought you, and have bid them doe their worst, you doubted not but by your friends to make your part good, and that you had as many for your way, as they. But for my part I doe not remember any good men who have threatned you with another banishment, some may in reasoning with you have argued against a Toleration of your Independent Government, and if you will from thence by consequences p. 275say they threatned you banishment, I judge this is farre fetched; For my book which (may be) is partly aimed at in this as well as in other passages of your Apologie, I can cleare it that I threatned you not with banishment, but laboured to satisfie you how you might enjoy your consciences in your own land, and did lay down a Medium between banishment and a Toleration: As for that which you say of your selves, that you have been through, the grace of God upon you, the same men in both in the midst of these varieties: I answer if you were the same men in your Exile as you have been since your returne into the Kingdome, you have no great reason to boast of it, nor to present it to the Houses as a Motive to be the more considered of, for most of you have been in England very high and peremptorie, and your owne Apologie with this Antapologie gives a full Character of your carriage here, so that I may turne these words thus, we have been through the corruption in us the same men in Holland and England in the midst of these varieties, namely seeking our selves and our owne particular ends too much, yea too high, confident and peremptorie in our way; As for the close of your Apologie in the last nine lines, And finally, as those that doe pursue no other interest nor designe but a subsistance (be it the poorest and meanest) in our own land, &c. You come in this to that which was first in your Intention, though brought in last for a Conclusion, on purpose to leave a deeper impression in the Parliament at the close of all, namely that the Houses would grant you a Toleration of your Independent Churches expressed in these soft and faire words, the allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse, which Toleration is ushered in, compassed about, and closed up with what may be most likely to take, namely summing up what is past, all your sufferings and patience in Exile, reproaches, &c. with your doings for Reformation, and being the same men in all conditions, and what is yet to come, laying all together to draw both Houses towards you, and to worke the people of the Kingdome to stand the more for you: Now for answer to this close of your Apologie, as containing the end and aime of your writing it, I will first examine the Arguments and expressions brought by you to effect your end, to perswade the Houses, and secondly, speake to the thing p. 276and matter, namely the Toleration of Independent Churches and Government in this Kingdome.

For the first I answer, what you may doe for the future, whether you will pursue no other Interest nor designe in this Kingdome but a subsistance, be it the poorest and meanest, I will not prophecie, but if we may argue from what you have done, and what yet you doe, then there is great cause of feare you will pursue other Interest and designes: for you have and doe pursue the designe of increasing your partie, and spreading your way as the onelyonly way of God, else why have you preached and done so much for it? neither can I beleeve you are so low spirited and so terrene as to look out after no other inrerest but a poore subsistance in this Kingdome, what have you not the designe and interest of setting up Christs Kingdome and pure Ordinances in the midst of us? I professe for my selfe and brethren that we have greater interests and designes in our seeking Reformation, then a subsistance in our owne land (though it might be never so full and plentifull) namely the glory of God, the advancement of the Kingdome of Christ, the opportunities of doing more service: And as for a subsistance be it the poorest and meanest, I appeale to the Conscience of the Reader whether that be likely, have you contented your selves with a poore and mean condition hitherto? have you lived in a poore rank, preaching in poore and meane Congregations, or have you not ruffled it, bearing a higher saile, and carrying a greater port then most of the Godly Ministers in Citie or Countrey? have not some of you the prime Lectures of the Citie, and other good places of advantage and profit, (besides what some of you have from your owne Churches,) could not you have been contented to have added more places, and can any who know you in what height you live, and what Grandees of the times you are, and how much you appeare in publike in the chiefe places of resort, and have insinuated into so many great men, beleeve that you would live contented with a subsistance (be it the poorest and meanest?) let them beleeve you who will, for my part I am not satisfied in the truth of it, but doe suspect that if the Parliament should make an offer to you to this purpose you would refuse it. You say you pursue no other Interest or designe, but a subsistance (be it the p. 277poorest and meanest) in your owne land, well, you five shall have your. Church-way, and enjoy Congregations in such a remote corner of the Kingdome, provided you shall not have above fiftie pounds a yeare, nor above fiftie persons to each Church, you shall adde none from any other Congregations of the Kingdome, nor admit any of other Congregations to come to heare you, nor never preach in any of our Churches any of your Church-Principles, nor speake of them in private to any but your owne members, would this satisfie you? in your Reply give a positive and cleare answer. As for that you say, where we have and may doe further service. I answer, before you fell into this new Church way, you did God service, but since, you have done more dis-service then ever service, and if God be pleased to bring you backe into the fellowship of this Church, and to joyne in this Reformation to grow up into one body, you may doe him further service; otherwise in the way of a Toleration which you aime at, you will doe more hurt then you can doe good in this Kingdom (yea though you had the tongues and parts of Angels.) As for those words a subsistance in the land which is our birth-right as we are men, and the enjoyment of the Ordinances of Christ our portion as we are Christians; I answer, a subsistance in the land according to the Lawes established is your birth-right, but not otherwise; besides, the deniall of a Toleration of your Churches doth not deny you a subsistance in the land, but you may subsist if you please though no Toleration: But supposing you may not have what you please, if thereupon you will remove to other Kingdomes, that is your fault, and not the States; when a Father or Master lets their children and servants have what is good and fitting, but denies to let them doe what they list, and refuses to grant what would hurt them, if the children and servants will goe away, and put themselves upon inconveniences to have their mindes and wils else-where, it is not the parents and masters fault, but the children and servants; if men will punish themselves with Exile, because they cannot have their wils, they can blame none but themselves. And as for the enjoyment of the Ordinances of Christ, which you say are your portion as you are Christians, then they are your portion not as Church members, but as Christians, and why then doe you keep p. 278away many good Christians from them, for want of being Church members after your way; but let me tell you though the ordinances of Christ be the portion of Christians, yet not in what way and dresse so ever they will have them, for so the Papists may plead to enjoy them in their way, and the Anabaptists in their way, but they are the portion of Christians so as to enjoy them according to the word of God in the publike Assemblies, and not in a schismaticall way, and so may you enjoy among us publike ordinances in the publike Assemblies, but to forsake the publike Assemblies and draw away others with you, and to set up a wall of separation between you and the reformed Churches, this is not your portion as you are Christians, but it is against Christianity, and is your sinne and schisme. As for that allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse, you need not doubt that, so farre as will stand with peaceablenesse, that is so as not to urge subscriptions upon you to all the points of government and order, not to cast you out from preaching amongst us though you may be of a different judgement in some lesser matters (especially so long as you keep your judgements to your selves, and preach not contrary to what is established to make factions and parties:) But if you meane by the allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences, that you and others may have free leave to set up separated Congregations, and goe and receive in to your Churches whom you please, and governe Independently in a different forme of government from the government established, I must tell you this ought not to be granted, as being inconsistent with peace and truth, and would be a perpetuall root and source of many bitter divisions, errours and mischiefes in this Kingdome: As for your last words of all, not knowing where else with safety, health and livelihood to sot your seet on earth, that seemes strange to me, doe none of the English Ministers who live in other parts of the world, as in Holland, New-England and other places enjoy safety, health and livelihood, are these things confined and tied only to England? did not most of you enjoy all these abroad? livelihood is confessed in your Apologie, a full and liberall maintenance annually: safety you went over for, and found; and as for health, some of your way have commended p. 279Arnheim you lived at, to be like Hartford and Bury in Suffolke, and one of you Roterdam to be as good, if not better then London; which places for health are sufficiently knowne. And however all these things of no other interest but a subsistance in our own land, and of enjoying the ordinances of Christ, and not knowing where else with safety, health and livelihood to set our feet on earth, be held forth as specious pretences to the Parliament and Reader to perswade and to allure them, yet the bottome of all this desire of a toleration in England (though concealed) is that there is no other place on earth, where you are like to propagate your way, to gaine so great a party, to enjoy such full and rich Congregations, and to have that respect and applause in your way as in England, and in England as London and the adjacent parts, or where you can have those faire hopes and probabilities of drawing so great a part of a Kingdome to your Church-way as here: and where if you goe on to act as diligently and politickly as you have done in these three yeares last past, and the Ministers be as generally silent, and the common people of the Kingdome come a little more to understand your principles, and have time to digest and consider of the great liberty and power they have thereby, the rest of the Kingdome may in time come to be beholding to you for a toleration of Presbyterie (if it be established) (which you will as soone grant, if you come to have power in your hands, as you will Episcopacy and Popery,) many of your Church-way ordinarily affirming they had rather have Episcopacie then Presbyterie; and it hath been affirmed to me by a Minister of note, that a Minister of the Church-way preferred Popery in this Kingdome before Presbyterie, for if Popery should come in, it would be but short lived, but Presbyterie was like to be long lived: The Arminians in the Netherlands at first desired but a toleration, no more but to be permitted to enjoy in some Churches of their own their consciences with peaceablene…, but afterwards that by the connivance and favour of the Magistrates they were in some Cities and places (as Amsterdam &c.) grown to a great number, and had a great power, then they would not suffer no… tolerate the orthodox Ministers, but persecuted them, and some were forced to flie (as in the stories of the Netherlands is at large recorded,) And if ever the Independents by connivance or p. 280a toleration should come to have a power and strength considerable, if they serve not us so, I am much deceived: All Sectaries and erro…eous spirits who are but tolerated, and not owned, will watch all advantages to set up their own way as chiefe, and when they have a power will be impetuous and violent to effect it, as the Anabaptists in Germanie were, the Arminians in Holland, and the Antinomians and Familists in New-England: As women out of their weakenesse and feare when they have power over any, are most cruell, so Sectaries out of their feare least a State may one time or other cast them out and not tolerate them, will upon an advantage suppresse and destroy the orthodox, and stablish their own.

2. As for the matter it selfe contained in the close of your booke, a Toleration of Independent Churches and government, the scope and last end of this Apologie, whereunto tends all the artifice and fallacies in the composure of it, I shall lay downe some Reasons and grounds against it: I cannot stand to handle the question at large about tolerations of different Religions or of divers Sects and opinions in one and the same Kingdome, (this answer being already a great deale longer then I intended it.) I cannot now open the tearmes and premise the distinctions, as distinguishing concerning the nature and kind of errors, concerning the persons erring, concerning the kinds and degrees of toleration and coaction, &c. I shall reserve the full handling of this point, whether toleration be lawfull, to a particular Tractate I intend upon that subject: In the meane time upon occasion of what you present here to the Parliament, I shall humbly submit to their considerations these following particulars.

1. A Toleration of Independent Churches and government 1 Reason.with their opinions and practise, is against the Magistrates duty laid downe in Scripture; but for Magistrates by good lawes to command and require obedience to the government and Reformation, upon good grounds judged to be according to the word of God, and so established, is lawfull and their duties: For the clearing of which I premise two things, which I suppose must needs be granted. 1. That the Magistrate is custos ac vinde… utrius que Tabula, (as is confessed by all orthodox Divines,) that the care of Religion belongs to him, and that he is to looke to it that the p. 281Church of God and the Government of it be constituted and setled according to the Word, and that the people may lead a peaceable Beza Confess. Fid. cap. 5. de Ecclesia spe…. 44. de Christiani Magistretus offici….and quiet life in all godlinesse and honestie, for which end Princes and Magistrates are to make Lawes for the observing of the Worship and Government of Christs Church, forbidding and punishing with religious severitie those things which are practised against the Word of God, but commanding what is according to it, this is one of the great services they yeeld to Christ as they are Magistrates; and I find Augustine and other Divines giving that sense of Psal. 2. 10, 11. of Kings and Iudges serving the Lord with feare, and of Deut. 17. 19. of God commanding the King to read the booke of the Law, that he may learn to observe the things which are written in it, not onelyonly as private men practising these and ordering their lives according to the Word, but as Kings they should order their Office by the Word, not onelyonly by living holily (for so they serve God as men) but as Kings and Magistrates by making Lawes for the Worship of God, and prohibiting the contrary. 2. That the Reformation in Worship, Government, &c. which shall be setled and established by the Parliament is judged and taken for granted by them to be according to the minde of Christ, else why have they called so many able, godly and learned Divines to consult with for that purpose, and stood so much for a Reformation according to the Word? and why else will they establish it, if there be any other more agreeable to the Word? so that whatsoever other Government after all debates and Reasonings is rejected and refused must be thought not to have such a ground in the Word, for if it had, why was it not established and owned, but comes to seeke for a Toleration and Connivance? Now then by vertue of many Scriptures both in the old and new Testament, the Examples of the Kings of Judah in commanding and requiring all the people to yeeld to the Reformations made by them (and in particular the Spirit of God commending Iosiah for making all Jerusalem and Benjamin to stand to the Covenant 2 Chron. 34. 3…, 3….2 Chr 34:3which he had made with God) the fourth Commandement requiring of the Father of the Family that he see all under his power and charge to worship God (upon which learned Divines (as Zanchius) excellently show the dutie of Magistrates in reference p. 282to commanding and providing that their people shall worship God according to his will) Rom. 13. 4. Ephes. 5. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Iohn 11. v. Revel. …. 20. with many other places in Scripture of removing away of evill, and of not consenting to evill, &c, the Parliament is bound to establish, and to command obedience to that Reformation which is judged most agreeable to the Word, and to suppresse and hinder all other: It was excellently done by the Parliament to call together so many able, godly, and Orthodox Divines to debate and find out the mind and will of God, for Doctrine, Worship, and Discipline, and to give libertie to men of different judgements to bring in their grounds: and after all wayes of enquiry and searching into truth, and a Modell drawn up for them upon good grounds being satisfied, 'tis their dutie by their power and authoritie to bind men to the decrees of the Assembly, and not to tolerate any other Doctrines, Churches, Worship or Government to be set up and exercised; you ought not to suffer the weake to be destroyed, nor the people to be drawn away by every wind of doctrine, but when once upon good grounds the Reformation is concluded, you must defend it against troublesome and turbulent spirits, and in so doing God will be with you, and subdue the people under you, whereas if to please some people you suffer them to enjoy their own way, God will not be well pleased with it, neither can you answer it unto God: You may lawfully, nay ye ought in that which is good to compell men (though they pretend conscience) shall the errours of other mens consciences hindr you from yeelding that service which God requiteth of you? may a Parliament displease God to please men? or may they be please…s of other mens sins, and wink at evill to content some persons? No, Parliaments in making lawes for Religion must depend on the will of God …led in his Word in the best and … wayes communicated to them, and not upon the consciences of some people.

…. The Toleration desired is against the solemne League and Covenant for Reformation, taken by the Parliament, and the Kingdome …on.of England and Scotland, and … be co…ed to without … of that Oath and Covenant, so that the Apologie and motion for a Toleration comes …o late, the doore is shut p. 283against it, the Kingdomes hands are bound, so that if such a Toleration were not in it… selfe unlawfull, and against the dutie of the Magistrate, yet now because of the Oath and Covenant 'tis unlawfull, so that whatever might have been granted before, cannot now, lest the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenantbreaking: Now a… Toleration, and this moving for a Toleration by the Apologists is expresly against these branches of the Covenant: 1. Against that clause in the first branch of endeavouring the Reformation, of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ixeland in Doctrine, Worship, Government and Discipline, according to the Example of the best Reformed Churches; now in this Petition to both Houses you would be exempted from the Reformation of the best Reformed Churches, so that unlesse you understand the Brownists, New-England, or your own Churches to be the best Reformed, you have broken your Covenant, but though you may understand it so, and may be tooke the Covenant in that sense, yet I suppose you cannot think the Pa…liament (whom you s… to for a Toleration) took the best Reformed Churches in that acception, but for the Reformed Churches so called and commonly knowne, as of France, &c. so that their granting a Toleration would be against this clause of the best Reformed Churches. … 'tis expresly against another clause in the firs… branch. And sh…ll endeavou… to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformity in Religion, Confession of Faith, Forme of Church Government. Directory so… Worship and Catechi…ing. Now if the Parliament hath covenanted so, how can it grant a Toleration of so different a Forme of Church Government and Worship, as the Independent way is from the Presbyteriall? and how can you be excused from explicite formall breach of Covenant in this part of your Apologie, having sworne and sub…bed to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in these three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion, who in stead of so labouring and endeavouring or ever so much as trying whether you with the rest of the Churches may not be brought into a neere Conjunction and Uniformitie, just before the time the Assembly was comming to fall upon these points in difference to put out this Apologie and p. 284to move for a Toleration, before hearing what could be said to you for satisfaction, or ever debating the points in the Assembly: Is this to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion &c. before so much as ever debating points to conclude magisterially (as you doe in pages 22. and 24.) against the Reformed Churches, and to desire an exemption from Conjunction and Uniformitie with the rest of the Churches in this Kingdome. 3. 'Tis against that clause in the second branch, that we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme, and whatever shall be found contrary to found doctrine and the power of Godlinesse, lest we partake in other mens sins. Now that which you move for is schisme and contrary to sound Doctrine, the Church-way being a schisme, besides many of your Church Principles are against sound Doctrine, and the power of Godlinesse, as that in your Apologie about the subject of Excommunication, as that of a few people having power to joyne together, and set up a Church and chuse what Ministers they will, as that of the Independencie of particular Congregations from any Authenitative power, &c. so that the Parliament in the midst of their Reformation and blessed Conjunction according to the Word of God with the Reformed Churches should in allowing you a Toleration suffer a formall schisme, both in Worship and Government in the midst of these Kingdomes. 4^ly, This Toleration sued for is against a part of the fourth branch, endeavouring the discovery of such as have been evill Instruments by hindring Reformation of Religion, or making any faction or parties amongst the people contrary to this League and Covenant: Now the Parliament is bound by this against all persons and things which hinder the Reformation, and makes any faction or parties amongst the people: now whether a Toleration granted, yea but moved for would not hinder the Reformation of Religion, and make Faction and parties amongst the people, let it be considered: I confesse I wonder how the Apologists ever took this Covenant, or having taken it, that they should ever dreame more of a Toleration, or think it possible the Parliament should grant it, the Covenant being so direct against a Toleration: Many of the Church-way and Communion p. 285have and doe apprehend all this, that taking the Covenant and a Toleration of Independencie cannot stand together, and thereupon there are Ministers and people of that way had not taken it (whatever they may of late. I have been told from a good hand that some of the Apologists had much adoe to bring themselves to take it, and that it was a bitter pill to get downe, and one of some qualitie assured me that M^r Nye told him in Scotland, that when the Covenant had passed there, and was to be sent for England, he writ with all earnestnesse and possible Conjurements to M^r Goodwin, M^r Bridge, &c. not to oppose it, or be against it, as much fearing how it would goe downe. To conclude this Reason, For the Parliament to allow such a latitude as a Toleration, it would be against the solemne Covenant: For the Ministers to be silent, and not to witnesse against such a Toleration desired would be in them a breach of the Covenant, and therefore in respect to the Covenant I have taken, I here witnesse against Tolerations of different sects and Churches: The people by vertue of their Covenant are by all wayes and meanes in their places and callings engaged to oppose such a Toleration, by their prayers to God against it, &c. Lastly, our brethren of Scotland are ingaged with all their power and might in their places to oppose it: Now the Apologists in petitioning for a Toleration have not only broken the Covenant themselves, but they endeavour by all their wit and art in this Apologie to bring the Parliament and Kingdome into so great a guilt as the breach of this solemne Covenant.

3. A Toleration is against the nature of Reformation, a Reformation 3 Reason.and a Toleration are diametrally opposite; The commands of God given in his Word for Reformation, with the Examples of Reforming Governours Civill and Ecclesiasticall doe not admit of a Toleration, how many things might be produced out of some Sermons and Lectures of the Apologists concerning the nature of Reformation, and of the Magistrates dutie in Reformation, which crosse and thwart Tolerations? and if the consciences of some men being unsatisfied must be a dispensation against removing such a thing, or commanding such a thing, there will never be no perfect nor thorough Reformation, for what generall Reformation can there be but will be against many mens consciences? the takin… p. 286away of what men have long enjoyed, and the bringing in of quite other things will trouble many consciences, and if Magistrates or Ministers may not settle things contrary to the consciences of many, but tolerate and allow them wherin they plead Conscience, they shall never doe Gods work: In King Edwards and Queen Elizabeths Reformations, how was it against the Consciences of many taking away the Masse, Confession to the Priest, bringing in the Common Prayer Booke: In this present Reformation, how much is it against many mens Consciences the taking away the Government of the Church by Bishops, the present Lyturgie and establishing another Government and Forme of publike Worship, who if they might be allowed a Toleration would not admit a Reformation, must not the Assembly and Parliament proceede therefore in the worke of Reformation, because all mens consciences are not satisfied? if this principle were once given way to, that nothing might be removed, nor nothing brought in which offends consciences, but in such a case persons must have a libertie and Toleration, men would still pretend conscience, and so nothing to purpose should ever be reformed publiquely, and all the Scripture speakes of Nationall and Generall Reformation by way of commanding and commending, it should be just nothing, depending meerely upon Tolerations, that is, there shall be a Reformation unlesse men desire a Toleration, and the upshot of all will be this, that so many of such a mind shall enjoy their way, and so many of another mind their way, &c. and they who will yeeld to the Reformation by Nehemiah and Ezra may, were there ever such Reformations read of in the Scriptures?

4. A Toleration of men in their errours, this pretended Libertie of conscience, is against the judgement of the greatest lights in the 4 Reason.Church both antient and moderne. I might out of Ecclesiasticall Histories, as Theodoret, &…. relate the praises of those Emperours Theodosius, Arcadius, &c. who would not suffer the meetings of the Heretioues, but did by positive Lawes amerce and banish them, as also the brands and blemishes cast upon those Emperours who suffered the Arrians, and other Heretiques: I might out of Augustine, Ambrose, Calvin, Philip, Melancth…n, Peter, Marty, Zanchius, Musculus, Bullinger, bring many sentences agains… p. 287Tolerations, and leaving men to the libertie of their owne consciences, and how by lawes and Discipline Magistrates may command obedience to the Worship of God established, and to return into the Unitie of the Church: But out of many I will give you the Epist. …8. Augustinus Vincentio ex …resi R…gatiana doce…s se fuisse allquando ejus sententiae, …t arbitraretur cum haereticis nulla …i, sed solo Dei verbo …endum, verum aliorum sententiis & exempl… superatum m…tasse sententiam.judgement of two, Augustine and Beza: Augustine in his Epistle to Vincentius writes to this purpose, declaring to him, though he was sometimes of that opinion, that erroneous men should not be dealt with by force but only by the Word of God, yet now by the arguments of others, and by the visible examples of many being reduced from errours by that meanes he had changed his judgement, and that therefore the Lawes of Princes might be lawfully made use of against errours. And for this coactive power he brings many grounds in that Epistle, and he speakes thus: If we tolerate men in their errours, and nothing be thought upon or done by us which may be likely to terrifie and recover them, we shall truly render evill for evill: If men be compelled and terrified, but not instructed, this is a tyrannizing over them; but again, if they be …aught and not feared, they will move the slower to goe in the way of life, not every one who spares is a Friend, nor every one who chastiseth is an enemie: And dost thou think no force is to be used to a man that he may be delivered from the per…itiousnesse of his errour, when as we know God himself doth so in many Examples, and speaking on that point he saith, it must not be so much considered that a man is compelled, as what that is to which he is compelled: In this Epistle the Father answers some objections brought against compelling men, as that this does no good to …ome, as that this is persecution, as that these Heretiques would not doe so, &c. so he writes in his bbAugusti… Bonisacio viro militari de Caesaris co…. …monstrans illi Donatistarum haeresi… nih… habere comm…ne cum Arria…, & qua modoratione per me…um leg… imperialium haeretici possu… a… ecclesiae sacieta… red….50. Epistle to Boniface, and in his ccAugustinus Do… presby… …, … … … …d …, … … sibi vi… inferre, … ut reso… perpe… … ▪ … pra… voluntatem rectè cog… ad …iora.204. Epist. to Donatus upon the same subject; And ddAugustinus Re…ct. lib. 2 cap 5. Quod verè …unc … place…at, quia nondu… expert… e…am, vel qua…um …ali eoru… auderet impunit…s, vel quantum iis in melius mutandis conferre posset diligenti… ….in his Retractations he retracts this errour which he sometimes held, and had writ of, … it did not please him that schismatick…s should be compelled … … to Communion by the force of any s…cular pow…r, and p. 288gives his reasons there of the change of his judgement from what he formerly held, because now he had experience how much evill the Toleration and suffering of them did, as also how much the diligence of Discipline would conferre to the making of them better. eeMinimè ut haec quidem libert… intelligitur, idest, ut quo quis que mo lo volet Deum colat: Est enim hoc merè diabolicum dogma, Sinendu… esse unumquemque ut si volet perea…. & i…a est diabolica liber…s quae Poloniam & Transylvaniam bodie …ot pestib… implevit, quas nullae alioqui sub sole regiones tolerarent. Bezae epist. prima. Bezae epist 4^o.Beza in his Epistles and other writings speakes much against Tolerations and the libertie of Conscience pleaded for, and answers to that, whether libertie of Conscience is to be permitted? No, as this libertie is understood, that is, that every man may worship God after what manner he will himselfe. For this is a meere diabolicall opinion, That every one is to be suffered that if he will he may perish. And in the same Epistle he saith of Tolerations, This is that diabolicall libertie which hath filled Polonia and Transylvania with so many plagues of opinions which otherwise else no countries under the Sun would have tolerated. And in this Epistle he tels him to whom he writes, that which I perceive you call libertie of conscience, but I on every side call an open destruction and ruine: So in his Confession of Faith under that head of the office of the Christian Magistrate he speaks thus. ffBezae Consess. Fid. de Eccl, ca. …. sect. 44. de Christiani Magistratus officio.His office is to preserve the publike peace and quietnesse: now whereas that cannot be rightly done, but the true worship of God must flourish in the first place, from whence flowes all happinesse, it followes that nothing ought to be more looked to by the Christian Magistrates thē to have the Church ordered according to the rule of Gods Word, whose authoritie they may defend and vindicate against all contemners and disturbers: neither are they here to be hearkned unto, who under the maske and colour of false pitie and merciemercy, and not only by vaine and foolish arguments, but arguments Bez. De Haereticis à civili Maegistratu puniendis, advers… Martini Bellii farraginem & novo… … s…ctam.joyned with a great deale of impietie doe exempt false prophets and heretiques from the sword of Princes, when as on the contrary no kind of men are to be compelled with greater severity, as the expresse word of God commands, and religious Princes have alwaies done: And upon that subject, that Heretiques ought to be punished by the Civill Magistrate, he hath writ a book at large, answering all the objections for Tolerations and pretended liberty of conscience: And to the judgement of the Fathers, and the Moderne Writers in this point, I will adde the judgement of the Divines of New-England who are against the Toleration of p. 289any Church-Government and way but one: For the Discipline appointed by Iesus Christ for his Churches is not arbitrary, that Church Government and Church Covenant discussed, quaest. 31.one Church may set up one and practise one forme, and another another forme, as each one shall please, but is one and the same for all Churches and in all the Essentials and Substantials of it unchangeable, and to be kept till the appearing of Iesus Christ. And if that Discipline which we here practise be (as we are perswaded of it) the same which Christ hath appointed, and therefore unalterable, we see not how another can be lawfull. And so in New-England they will not suffer Brownists, Anabaptists, Antinomians. hhM^r Cotton pow…ng one of the seven Vials, Viall 3. pag. 1…, 17, 21. Vial… 4. pag 1….M^r Cotton the greatest Divine in New-England, and a pretious man, is against Tolerations, and holds that men may be punished for their consciences, as will appeare by his Letter to M^r Williams, and M^r Williams answer, (both printed) and his Exposition on the Vials, wherein he answers an objection: But you will say conscience should not be forced, &c. he answers, Why doe you thinke Heretiques were not as conscionable in the old Testament as now? if any man had a conscience to turne men from God, he would have men of as much conscience to cut them off.

5. The Magistrates Toleration of errours and new opinions is a kind of Invitation to them, a Temptation, and occasion of many 5 Reason.falling, who otherwise never would, a snare to many, a stumbling block laid before the weake, the leaving a pit or well uncovered, an opportunitie for Sathan, a mans owne corruption, or seducers to worke upon, and to draw away by: when men may broach opinions and vent them, hold and practise what they please without any danger, nay with the leave and countenance of the Magistrate: what advantage will not Satan and wanton witted men take by this? opportunitie makes many a thiefe, and impunitie makes many venture, and as 'tis a shroud temptation to make many fall, so a Toleration is a meanes of confirmation in the way of errour, a great block to stop up the way of many who might be gained for ever returning, when men know they may have their own way and are at their libertie, they will goe o…, the engagement of credit, &c. is much being in a way to continue in it, they have no necessity of harkning to Councell, or waighing arguments: But the deniall of a Toleration, and by positive Lawes commanding p. 290the contrary, as 'tis a great Preservative, so 'tis a Restorative, and a meanes of recovering many; when men see they cannot have their wils, they will consider a little better what they doe, as also review their former thoughts, and so may be reduced; yea, multitudes have blessed God they have not been left to their owne libertie, but that by severity of Discipline meanes have been used: This evill of Tolerations, and good of Coactions by Lawes hath been seen and approved of by long experience; Augustine that holy and learned Father from the experience of this changed his judgement about Tolerations, whereas it was his first judgement, and he had in a former Book writ, that it did not please him that Schismaticks should be compelled and forced to communion by the force of any secular power, afterwards he was of another mind, and writes that the grounds of his change were these: 1. The great evill of Tolerations, the great evill that impunitie made many run into. 2. The great good compulsion conferred to the making of many better, which he saw by many Examples of whole Cities converted from Donatisme, and comming to the Unitie of the Church. In the 48. Epistle formerly quoted, he writes thus to Vincentius, That it was his opinion at first that no man was to be compelled to the Unitie of the Church, all was to be done by perswasion, we were to strive by disputation, and to overcome by reason, lest we should make those fained Catholiques, whom we knew to be open Heretiques; but this my opinion was overcome, not by words, but by demonstrative examples, for first of all my owne city was brought to me for an Example, which being wholly for Donatus was converted to the Catholike Unitie by the feare of the Imperiall Lawes, so many other cities were named and reckoned up to me, to these examples brought me by my Colleagues I gave place: we see not … few men, but many cities who were Donatists to be now Catholiques, and vehemently to detest that diabolicall separation, and zealously to love unitie: which persons were by the meanes and occasion of this feare (which displeases you) made Catholiques by the lawes of the Emperours from Constantine down to these present Emperours: How many did therefore remaine Donatists because they were there borne, and no men did compell them to come out from them, and to goe to the Catholique p. 291Church: The terrour of these Lawes, in the promulgation of which the Kings of the earth served the Lord, did so profit all these, that now others say, thanks be to God who hath broken our bonds, and hath translated us to the bond of peace; others sory we did not know this to be the truth, neither would we have learned it, if we had been left to our libertie, but feare made us attentive to know it: Others say, we were terrified from entring in by false feares, which we should never have knowne to have been false, but by entring in, neither should we have entred in, unlesse we had been compelled. And so aaAugust. cont. Gaudent. Epist lib. 2. cap. 17. Quod autem vobis vi…etur, invi…os ad veritatem non esse cogendos: … nescientes Scripturas, ne que virtutem Dei, qui eos volentes …acit, dum coguntur inviti.Augustine against Gaudentius speakes thus: Whereas you thinke none must be forced to truth who are unwilling, you are deceived, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God, which makes those willing who when they were compelled were unwilling. And in his books of bbAugust. Retract lib. 2. c 5.Retractations he gives the experience of this fifth Reason as the ground of retracting what he had formerly writ and held in this point. ccBezae epist. 1…. Taceo quod toties adversuo Donatistas & Circumcelliones Augustinus testatur experientia ipsa edoctus, pleros que eo esse ingenio ut nulla re magis quam severitate in officio contineantur: ad… ut quod initio poenae formidine vitarun…: id ipsum postea libentur …ugiant, & asperitatem illam sibi saluberrimam fuisse testentur.Learned Beza observed it in his time, that Tolerations of sects, and Libertie of conscience (as it was called) was the ground of filling Polonia and Transylvania with so many pestilent opinions, which otherwise no people under the Sunne would have suffered, and that if the Magistrate had tried by all meanes in Transylvania, &c. to have restrained that libertie, they had not been brought to that condition which he judged no lesse miserable then Mahumetisme it selfe: And he wishes that France had given Polonia an example of this one thing, and showes the great difference between the peace and true liberty of conscience enjoyed at Geneva, and in Polonia, one granting Tolerations, the other none. So ddBeza de Haeret à Magistrpuniendis.he shewes the benefit and good of compulsion, I passe by that, Augustine being taught by experience it selfe, witnessed so often against the Donatists, many to be of that disposition that they are by nothing more kept in dutie then by severity of Discipline, so that what at first they left for feare of punishment, afterwards they willingly cast away, professing the sharpnesse used to have been very profitable. We have seene also by our own experience in this intermysticall season (though there hath been no formall Toleration) yet for want of Government setled, and people having been left to so great libertie, multitudes are fallen, and doe daily to p. 292Antinomianisme, Anabaptisme, Independencie, yea to denie the Immortalitie of the Soule, and then no expectation but many will fall more and more: Independents and all kinde of Sectaries (as long as they can have their libertie) snuffe up the wind, will not hearken to any way whereby they may receive satisfaction, but if once the Magistrate declares, and by laws concludes one way of Church-worship and Government, then it may be they will heare Reason: Men as long as they have any hopes will stand out, who yet when they see no remedie, will examine and consider: Now what account God will exact for his Name prophaned, for the Sacraments and Scriptures abused by the handling and administration of them who are not called, and what answer must be made for the ruine of Soules, harvest of sinne, corruption of doctrine alwayes following the publike Toleration of heresies and schismes, I humbly leave to be fully considered of, and wisely prevented by the High Court of Parliament, who must thinke, that silence provokes, and sufferance emboldens men to forsake Gods Truth and his Church, even as in civill affaires the neglecting of justice maintains disorders.

6. A Toleration of one or more different wayes of Churches and Church Government, from the Church and Church Government 6 Reason.established, will be to this Kingdome very mischievous, pernitious and destructive, in regard of the effects and consequents of it; how faire soever a Toleration may be pretended, and how small soever the differences, yet 'tis of a vast and dreadfull consequence to this Kingdome: Different Formes of Churches and Church Government in one state must needs lay a foundation of strife and division therein. It is the admitting of a seed of perpetuall division within its selfe, an opening a sluce to let in strife and contentions in all places publike and private, Church and Common-wealth, in Parliaments, Corporations, among the Ministers, in Families: Now how great an evill this is all wise states know, and can stand with no Christian policie, however it may agree with Machiavillian: The different Interests and Principles of the Churches established and tolerated with other things concurrent, especially in the partie tolerated apprehending themselves the weaker will be working in them to watch all advantages to grow p. 293and increase, and to get into places and favour with great men and Princes (as we see the Heretiques did in Ecclesiasticall Histories, and the Arminians in the Netherlands with the Magistrates, and will never rest working till they get the upper hand, and suppresse the other.) But besides the continuall heart-burnings and divisions betweene the Ministers of the different Churches, the people among themselves, the husband and wife with the corruption of doctrine, a Toleration will be a likely meanes of producing civill warres in this land, and whereas now we have a warre between King and Parliament, we may expect a warre amongst the people, yea the Toleration desired would prove a mighty advantage for the Court party to make use of those sects, and by enlarging some favours to them (being the weaker partie to gain them) by their help to overthrow the Government established, and to advance the Prerogative, the sad effects and mischiefes already (without any formall Toleration) of the different Churches and Governments, doe appeare in the jealousies, divisions, delayes, laying down of places, in not being so active, &c. whereby the Court partie is strengthened, Reformation hindred, and the good partie weakned: Now considering the many dangerous effects and consequents of a Toleration to this state, and considering the small differences betweene the Apologists and the Presbyterians (as themselves say) and that they can for a need come to our Churches, and partake in the Sacraments, hold Communion with us as the Churches Apolog. Narrat. pag. 6.of Christ, why should they have different Churches and Government allowed? The Parliament upon so small a ground and needlesse a cause hath the lesse cause to give way to a Toleration, which would certainely produce so great mischiefs and evils.

7. Independencie and the Church way besides the evill of it in its selfe considered, (as being a schisme in forsaking the reformed 7 Reason.Churches and constituting new, the way of constituting Churches by the people, the way of making their Ministers, the refusing of beleevers and their children to the Sacraments (unlesse they be Church members) with many more, all slat against the Primitive patterns) hath ever been from first to last a fountaine of evill and a root of bitternesse, of many bitter divisions and separations amongst themselves, of manifold errors and other mischiefes in p. 294those Churches and places where they lived, God having alwayes witnesses against it, and never blessing it with peace and truth. I shall not need to relate the histories of the Anaptists (the highest forme of Independencie and the Church way) what evils they fell into, and the mischiefes they brought upon Germanie, and how God cursed and scattered them: As for the Brownists the middle forme of Independencie, the Apologists themselves confesse they had fatall miscarriages and shipwracks; And I could tell a sad storie (but that it would be now too long) even from Bolton and Browne the first and prime leaders down to the present Brownists at Amsterdam, of the Apostasies, Heresies, Separations and bitter divisions, with the untimely fearefull ends which have fallen out amongst them, but in respect my booke so much exceeds the proportion intended, I shall reserve that for a more distinct handling. And for the semi-Brownists and Independents (so cal'd by way of distinction) they have not been free; The Churches of the Apologists have had their bitter divisions and fearefull miscarriages, as the Reader may remember in these pages of this present Answer, pag. 35, 36, 37, 142, 143, 144. with some erroneous conceits fallen into and preached in one of their Churches: So in the Churches of New-England there have been so many errors, differences and evils, that I beleeve had we but a true impartiall storie of New-England for the first seven or eight yeares (after they were come to any number) we should have the strangest storie (next that of the Anabaptists and old Brownists) one of them in the world; in a word, they were brought by their Independencie and Church principles next dore to ruine both spirituall and temporall, the sad experience of which hath made them wheele about of later yeeres towards Presbyteriall government, and in stead of that, not being yet formally come to it, to take aliquid analogum in the first constituting of Churches, making Ministers, &c. which at first they did not, and to give more power to Classes and Synods then they did many yeares agoe, as by comparing some Letters from thence in those times written by Ministers over into England, and M^r Cottons late booke will be evident. In a word, he that will observe it shall find the end of Independencie infinite schismes, separations, errors, inconstancie and uncertainty in judgement, yea barbarisme p. 295and confusion, and the Toleration of it by this State would be the opening of a sloud-gate to many other errors and evills besides what evill is in that, being a way all along wherein it …iffers from the reformed Churches either beside or against the word of God: And should the Parliament, which God forbid, and I hope is farre from their thoughts) give the Independents a Toleration of their way and Churches, they should give they know no… what, having never yet spoken out all that they hold (this Apologie containing but a little part of their way) besides taking in their second great principle, page 10. Apolog, of not making their present judgement and practise a binding law for the future, the Parliament may grant grosse Brownisme, Anabaptisme within a short time, many falling off according their principles of new light, to cast off communion with their own Churches, as some of M^r Sympsons have done; and let it be but remembred what I now write, whether some of the Apologists (if they come not in and joyne with the reformed Churches) doe not within a few yeeres goe a great way further, I think, had they staid together in Holland till this time, without any hopes of a Toleration here, some of them had gone farre by this time of day: Anointing with oyle was begun to be brought in, Hymnes had been moved for in one of their Churches, and if I may beleeve the report of a religious Person in an open company affirming it againe and againe, when I doubted it, that a member of the Church of A…nheim (who was also named to me) related, that had they staid there a little longer, the ordinance of Hymnes had been practised amongst them, one being chosen and agreed upon by the Church to exercise that ordinance. And I am able to demonstrate it, that the Apologists keeping but to their principles (besides the principle of a Reserve) must yet goe a great way further, and supposing the Parliament should make a proposition to them, Wee will grant you this and this, and so (which be the present principl…s you hold forth) but if you bring in any thing more or goe farther, then your Churches shall be dessolved, and we will recall what we granted you (because we will be sure to know what we allow in matters of Religion, be at a certaintie for that,) I doe not thinke the Apologists would accept of a Toleration p. 296upon those tearmes, and such a condition: The beginnings of errors commonly are most modest, but let alone some time, they exceed all bounds, how farre most of the Arminians proceeded beyond what Arminius held, or themselves at first, the learned books of many Divines and experience showes, and if a Toleration were granted to the Apologists and all those of their communion to exercise their consciences, I feare before a yeere went about many would turne Anabaptists, &c. but I desire rather to pray against a toleration, then to prophecie of the evill of it: But supposing the best that can be, that the State had an Assurance the Apologists and their Churches would not goe one step further then now they hold, the Toleration should not be made use of to any further errors, yet the Parliament should not allow it, unlesse they would grant a Toleratiod of Brownisme; and if Brownisme be a bitter error and way, then the way of the Apologists is not very sweet, their way being but Browns younger brother, agreeing with the Brownists in the nature and definition of the visible Church, in the Independent power of a particular Congregation, in the way of making Officers, in the way of their ordinanc…s, as Prophesying, in the way of Forms of Prayer, in the Sacraments, none to be admitted but Church members, cum multis alijs, and I desire the Apologists to give any materiall difference (however their grounds are different, and they doe not goe so farre in consequences, nor are not so grosse) between their Churches and the Brownists: As for that of the power of the people and the Officers, in giving the power to the Officers, but the Brownists to the people. I answer, however the Apologists differ in that point from the Brownists, in words, phrases, methods, and give us many fine words and flattering similitudes, going about, yet the truth is they differ not in substance in their practise, but all comes to one end and issue, and all is resolved into the body of the Congregation, and their power from first to last amongst the Apologists as well as amongst the Brownists, (though here 'tis carried in a fairer way, as fine wits must doe, and that they may have something to say, wherein they are not Brownists,) but of this the Reader may see more in this Answer, page 204, 205, 206.

8. The Presbyteriall way, the order and governme… of the reformed p. 2978 Reason.Churches hath been countenanced from Heaven, and blessed from above with the preservation of the truth and unitie of Religion, against heresies and errors in Doctrine, Idolatry and corruption in worship, and all sorts of sects and …chisme, it hath been free of those mischiefes and evills of errors and divisions which the Independent Churches have swarmed with, and that through a long tract of time and the experience of almost a hundred yeeres together: In reformed Churches where this government hath been set up, and hath had its free way and exercise even where it hath wanted the advantages of the Magistrate being a member of the Church, and hath had many disadvantages in regard of the spirits and dispositions of the people with many temptations to errors, yet it hath in those places kept out errors and schismes, preserved puritie of doctrine and peace: For example, in the Churches of France, it is evident by many yeeres experiences (though their Princes be popish) and they live in the midst of Papists, yet by Gods blessing upon their government and order, their Churches have been and are pure in doctrine, few or none falling to Popery, Arminianisme, or to sects and sch…smes, and when any errors doe arise amongst them, yet by meanes of that governement they are Nec tamen quicquam eorū defuit quibu… Satan facilè Gallos …eos ad quasvis turbas imp…ret, ingenita videlicet bui… genti viletas, ingenia ad subtilitatem & argutias prompta, Ma…ratuum in boc attentu… animus, ut quoquomodo Christian… Ecclesiae intestinis diss…s sem…tipsas destrue e t, adeo quidem ut nemo prodire po…uit tam sceleratus, quem Pont…j modo no, …ris a lver…tur, nonsoverint. Aggerem tamen firm…ssi …m Ecclesiastice disc… plinae perfringere nulium adhuc adversariorum …, ne in medijs quidem …llorum tempestatibus potuit. Epi….soone suppressed, and prevented from spreading. It was the observation of Beza in his time, of the French Churches, though France was grievously afflicted and oppressed by many, yet for that which concerned Religion it was free from all troubles and stirrs: And yet notwithstanding there was nothing wanting of all those things by which Satan might easily draw and move the French to all kind of troubles; for example, an inbred naturall lightnesse in that Nation, wits very ready for subtiltie and …iceties, the mind of the Magistrates intent also upon it, that all manner of wayes the Christian Churches might destroy themselves with their inward dissentions: notwithstanding all this, no strength of the adversaries hitherto, no not in the midst of all the tempests of warre, hath been able to beare thorough the most strong bu…warke and wall of Ecclesiasticall discipline.

p. 298For the Church of Scotland, I have heard it often and that from good hands, that during the free use and exercise of Presbyteriall government there, never any heresie or schisme tooke the third man, but by meanes of that governement it hath been pul'd up at first, and either the particular person broaching the errour recovered, or however prevented before three have beene infected with it: **Geneva (absit verbo injuria) tempestates intestinas adversus religionem comparatas vitavit potius quam sup…ravit, quatas nulla fortasse sub coelo civitas: nulla unquam Pastorum in doctrina inter se dissidia sensit; ab Anabaptistarum furoribus, a Libertinorum contagione, a Servetanorum & eorum quibu… hospitium magno vestro malo adbuc praebatis, blasphemijs immunis est, civitas alioqui omnibus advenis patens as p…oinde Satanae infdijs valde opportunas Debet id autem prosecto secundum Dei benignitatem, Ecclesiasticae, non tyrannidi, ut ex…ructibus saltem apparet, sed diligenter observatae d…sciplinae quae nunc etiam sacit ut omnes ex omnibus pene sub coelo sitis gentibus collecti in pace & vera libertate conscientiae ultro conquiescam….Beza in his first Epistle gives a notable testimony to this government by the blessing of God upon it in the City of Geneva: Geneva (be it spoken without offence) hath rather escaped then overcome all the inward tempests against Religion, so great as no City perhaps under Heaven hath done the like, it never yet felt any differences nor contentions of the Pastors amongst themselves in points of doctrine, 'tis free from the furies of the Anabaptists, the contagion of the Libertines, the blasphemies of Servetians, a City otherwise open to all strangers and comers, and for that cause very fit and subject to the wiles of Satan. But truly it owes all this by Gods blessing to the Ecclesiasticall discipline duely and diligently observed, which also now causes that all sorts almost out of all nations under Heaven there gathered together, in peace and in true liberty of conscience, doe willingly accord together.

The Commissioners of the Church of Scotland tell us, that this Reformat of Ch. govern. in Scotland, p. 3.government hath made the Church of Christ terrible as an army with banners, and like a strong and fenced City, against which the adversaries have despaired to prevaile, but by making a breach in this wall, and where they have gained ground or gotten any advantage, either the wall hath not been built, or being built hath been broken down, or not vigilantly kept by the watchmen.

But there will be objected against this a passage lately printed in a book of M^r Simpsons, that there have beene as great defections The Anatomist Anatomis…d.both of Ministers and people unto errors under Presbyteriall government p. 299as under any other: as it is cleare in the Low-Countries where so many Ministers and people turned Arminians, Papists, Socinians: I have instanced in severall reformed Churches, and showed Gods blessing upon Presbyteriall government, here's only one instance among all the reformed Churches brought against it, and to that I shall give these three answers: Though the Churches in the Low-Countries are Presbyteriall, yet withall ther's a Toleration of other Churches and government there, which is one of the causes of it and hinders Presbyteriall government: A Toleration will spoile any Church and government; if Presbyteriall government be setled, and a Toleration given in this Land, that will marre all; so that the Parliament may be pleased to take notice by this, and observe the difference between those Churches which have no Tolerations, as Scotland, Geneva, and the Low-Countries which grant a Toleration, the one are pure in doctrine, &c. the other makes Ministers and people turne Arminians, Socinians, &c. 2 Answ. There's another Reason why it may so fall out in the Low-Countries, because Presbyteriall government hath not its free course there in Synods, but 'tis much disturbed over 'tis in France, Geneva, Scotland, whereas by their Canons and Constitutions in the Netherlands, there should be a Nationall Synod once in three yeeres, they have not, nor cannot procure one in twenty yeeres and upwards; and whereas Provinciall Synods should be yeerely, they have them in some Provinces but once in five and seven yeeres; besides there are other disturbances in Presbyteriall government which hinders the free course of it in Holland, many encroachments are made upon the rights of their Church due to them by vertue of their discipline, and heretofore established: In a word, that Anabaptisticall and Familisticall spirit in many, and that corrupt spirit and principles in others, with those principles of Toleration, doth much check and stop Presbyteriall government from having its perfect worke, and bringing forth its full effects. The true Reason of so many Ministers and people turning Arminians and Socinians in the Low-Countries, was the want of Synods, which Arminius and his followers alwayes declined, and by flattering the Magistrates kept off for many yeares, in which time so many fell, whereas if Presbyteriall government had had p. 300its course, and a Nationall Synod had been called, yea but a Provinciall for the Arminians to have answered in at first before it had so much spread, and they gained so many of the Magistrates on their side, we should have found there would have been no ground for M^r Simpson to write thus, As is cleare in the Low-Countries where so many Ministers and people turned Arminians, Papists and Socinians? In a word, till the calling of Synods, and the power of Presbyteriall government was shaken, and some Arminians by flattery and policie wrought to put by Ecclesiasticall Assemblies, and appealed to the Magistrates, as M^r Simpson does in this Apologie from the Assembly, there was not so great a defection both of Ministers and people unto errors, in turning Papists, Socinians, &c. 3. Though Presbyteriall government hath not its free course in the Low-Countries as in France, Geneva, Scotland, besides the Toleration there, yet there are infinitely fewer miscarriages in censures, divisions, errors in the Presbyteriall Churches then in the Independents, there having been more contentions, miscarriag…s, falling into errors in one small Church of the Independent way at Amsterdam, and that within lesse then one yeere, then in all the Churches in some Provinces: I remember perfectly, I have read in M^r Pagetts Arrow against Separation (a man who lived long in Holland, and much versed in the Controversie) how he showes, that out of a few members in the Brownists Churches more fall to Anabaptisme, &c. then out of many thousand members of the Presbyteriall Churches amongst the Dutch, or out of all the English Reformed Churches there. So that notwithstanding this new objection brought against Presbyteriall government if the Parliament should please to settle it, and that in the full power and free use of Classes and Synods, denying also a Toleration for Independencie (unto which all erroneous and discontented spirits upon all occasions would flow and gather) instead of opening a wide gate for errors, divisions and many other mischiefes, they shall lay a sure foundation for truth and peace in these Churches: And in the last words of the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland I conclude this last Reason against a Toleration: The Church of England which God hath blessed with so much learning and piety, by this Reformation and uniformity with other reformed Churches, p. 301which all of us have solmnely sworne and subscribed to endeavour in our severall places and callings, should be a praise in the earth. Now did not other occasions call me to take off my hand, besides the booke it selfe swelled already to such a number of sheets, I would have answered all the reasons brought both for Tolerations in generall, and particularly for the Congregationall way, as that men are to be perswaded in matters of Religion and not compelled, as that the Conscience is to be left free, as that the deniall of a Toleration will be a great persecution, as that this is the way to make men hypocrites, as that Gods people are a willing people, &c. but reserving this to another season, in the close of this Discourse I will propound these following questions to the Apologists:

1. Whether the commanding of men by the power of Lawes to doe their duties, to doe the things which God requires of them, with the using of outward meanes to worke them to it when unwilling, be unlawfull for the Magistrate, and against Christian libertie, yea or no?

2. In your moving for a Toleration, doe you desire it for you five only, with those who are actually and will come in to be members of your Churches, or for all the Churches who are of the same way and Communion, if for your selves and Churches onelyonly (which would be more tolerable, a few then a great number, and you being persons of more worth then most of the others) consider the solemne League and Covenant is against it, That we shall without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme, and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine; so that you cannot be tolerated more then others, besides if that were granted, you being but five Ministers and making up but three or foure Churches, the Parliament would be never the neerer in giving satisfaction, for what should become of all the rest of the Ministers and Churches in City and Countrey, of M^r C. M^r B. D^r H. M^r L. M^r G. Mr W. &c. the Parliament would be accounted partiall and further off from giving content then if they granted none at all. But if it be said you desire it for all Churches of your constitution, I answer, expresse so much under your hands, and I will then give you an answer.

p. 3023. Whether would you have a Toleration granted in the generall, and indifferently for all consciences, sects, and opinions; or only for some sort of opinions; I suppose, being wise men you will not expresse your selves for a Toleration in the first sense, but in the latter: I desire to know of you then what limits and bounds you will set, and where the Parliament shall stop, and what rules you will give for this, as first whether the limitation shall be a Toleration only for all different formes of Church-Government and order, so long as they agree in Doctrine with the Church established, and are Orthodox; but not of doctrine: Now if you hold so, then the Brownists, and the Bishops, with those who are for the Hierarchie must be tolerated as well as you; many Episcopall men being sounder in doctrine then some of your way, and if so, then the simple Anabaptists, and that sort of simple Anabaptists called Dippers will come in too, saying, that Baptisme at such an age, and baptizing in rivers by dipping, are but matters of order and time, and what if yet a new forme of Church Government, and way of externall order in the Administration of Gods Ordinances be set up by some, a way which hath never yet beene practised by any, must that be tolerated also? consider with your selves whether there may not be a safer allowance of difference in some doctrines and opinions, then of different governments, as also what you have expressed of the consequence of Church Government and order, and then resolve me whether you will have all formes of Church-Government allowed, and in my Rejoynder I will apply my selfe particularly to show you the danger of that, and how much hazard there is even of the Doctrine from the Discipline and Order, if that be not right. Or secondly, would you have a Toleration in points of Doctrine too, namely in lesser differences, I desire to know what you will make the rule and measure of those lesser differences? whether whatever may stand with saving grace, and is not against the fundamentals of Doctrine and civill Government, or what else? Now if you meane so, who shall determine and judge what may stand with saving grace, &c. every Heretick, Socinian, &c. will plead his opinion may, and I aske of you, whether many points and practises very bad and pernitious may not stand with saving grace in some men, at least for a time, p. 303what say you to Polygamie that hath stood with saving grace, may that be tolerated? what think you of many Arminian Tenets, some Lutheran opinions, Antinomian Doctrines, and other dangerous points held by great Schollars, as by Brentius, Osiander, Flaccius, Illyricus, may not some of these opinions stand with grace, and might not some of these have grace, and must these now be allowed to be preached in a Kingdome that hath established Articles of Religion and a Confession of Faith? and shall such preachers gather people into Churches? if all points may be preached, and Churches allowed for all Doctrines that are not against fundamentals, and that may stand with saving grace, there will be a strange face of Protestant Reformed Churches, infinite novelties may be broached, and great stirs caused in a Kingdome, I desire you in your Reply to state your lesser differences, and to set downe your Boundaries, what, and what not, and accordingly I shall answer; In the meane time from these few hints, you and the Reader may see, besides the unlawfulnesse, there's difficultie where to fasten a Toleration. Now in the close of my discourse against Toleration, I take the humble boldnesse to represent to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, that tis the Magistrates dutie not to suffer schismes, heresies, and other errours to grow and increase in the Church; for as they are Magistrates they truly serve God, whose Ministers they are, and kisse the Son, in revenging the injuries wantonly committed against God and his truth, and in preserving the externall politie of Doctrine and manners: one of the great services Princes and Parliament performe to Christ in reference to their great and high calling, consists in making Lawes for the observing the Worship and Government of his House, and by Lawes prohibiting all other worships and governments. And I humbly beseech the Parliament seriously to consider the depths of Satan in this designe of a Toleration, how this is now his last plot and designe, and by it would undermine and frustrate the whole work of Reformation intended, 'tis his Master-piece for England, and for the effecting of it, he comes and moves not in Prelates and Bishops, not in furious Anabaptists, &c. but in holy men, excellent Preachers, moderate and faire men, not for a toleration of heresies and grosse opinions, but an allowance of a latitude to some lesser p. 304differences with peaceablenesse, this is candidus ille Diabolus, as **….Luther speakes, and m…ridianus Di…bolus, as Iohannes Gersonius, an… B… expresse it, comming under the merits of much suffering, and well deserving, clad in the white garments of Innocencie and Holinesse: In a word, could the devill effect a Toleration, he would think he had gained well by the Reformation, and made a good exchange of the Hierarchie to have a Toleration for it: I am con…ident of it upon serious thoughts and long searching into this point of the evils and mischiefe of a Toleration, that if the devill had his choice, whether the Hierarchie, Ceremonies and Lyturgie should be established in this Kingdome, or a Toleration granted, he would chuse and preferre a Toleration before them, and would willingly part with, and give up all those for a Toleration of divers Sects and different Churches. To conclude, if the way of Independencie be of God, and the Apologists can make that good, let it be established by the Parliament, and let's all come to that; if it be not, why then should it be tolerated? and why did the Apologists move for a Toleration before that ever it came to be debated and argued in the Assembly. And now for a conclusion and closing up this Answer to the Apologeticall Narration, I might as some Authors doe in answering Bookes gather together, and draw up into one all the maine particulars of the Apologie animadverted upon, and put them under certaine heads, and ranke them in their severall formes, and so present a Synopsis of them to both Houses and the Reader, whereby they might have all in their eye at once, see much in a little: As 1. all the expressions of the high praises of themselves and their owne partie scattered up and downe in the Apologie. 2. The Aspersions, Depressions, Insinuations both open and more secret of the Reformed Churches, and of the Assembly. 3. The crossings and interfearings of some passages in the book with others. 4. The plaine and manifest untruths expressed in many pages. 5. All the Reservations and Concealments of matters both of opinions and practises in the Church-way. 6. The double doubtfull expressions both in words and matter. 7. The mistating of the questions in difference both on their owne side, and the Presbyterians, stating their owne differences with the lowest, and the Reformed Churches at p. 305the highest. 8. The generall expressions without comming down to … … which being deducted and extracted from the Ap…ie, what remain… behind (saving some few argumen…s hinted) but a just testimo… of the Parliament and Assembly, with a … character of the people and multitude, and a brand upon the old separation, which pa… ▪ also of the Parliament, Assembly; People and Separation … brought in, both the praise of …, and the dispraise of the other, in reference to the magnifying and commending the more the … and patience, &c. of the Apologists, but I spare; the wise Reader may observe the passages, and I have animadverted upon them all along in my Answer. I could have▪ made one part of my Answer to this Apologie … strange (though …ue) paraphrase upon it▪ and andin… … have … the Narration of themselves for the most part contrary: But I shall reserve that, with some other things I have yet to say i… matter of fact, till I put out my Rejoynder to their Reply: In … meane … I shall conclude this Antapologie with …rning my … p. 306by dissolving your Churches, and comming in to us, and that you may repent and recall this Apologie, I will represent to you the greatnesse of your sin and folly in making the Apologie, and it stands in these particulars: 1. It was an unseasonable disorderly work for the time and way of it. 2. 'Tis a Narration full of mentall Reservations, high praises of your selves, but censuring and scandalizing the Reformed Churches of Christ. 3. There are many untruths in it, and that not only where you make naked▪ relations o… things, but where you make professions before God and the world; yea, …here you make serious Invocations of God to a…est them, and men also, and all this is done publikely by printing, and deliberately, and upon a designe to take the more with the people, and to make way the better for a …oleration. 4. There is a breach of the solemne Covenant subscribed by you, especially in that clause of the first branch, we shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Relegion, Confission of Faith, and Forme of Church-Government, in stead of which before ever you …o much as tried and endeavoured it, by debating▪ those matters of difference in the Assembly, whereby it might be brought to an Uniformitie; you endeavour by this Apologie a Toleration, and sue for an exemption of Conjunction and Uniformitie in Church▪ Government, which is strange you should desire, especially having cove…anted to the contrary, which breach of covenant is aggravated also, that you do not onelyonly do it your selves, but you labour to bring the Houses into it by moving them to grant you a Toleration: Now if a simple and single untruth need repentance, what repent…nce ought there to be for such a compounded aggravated evill as yours …s: And as I have represented it to your own consciences that you may smite upon the thigh, so I turne you over to your Churches, whereof you are Ministers, that they deale with you for your great sin, and either bring you to Con…ion and Repentance, or else proceed to censure, did I know where your Churches dwelt and where they meet, I might then come and complain to them of your great sin, but in stead of comming, I send them this Answer, and hereby give them notice, and … ready to satisfie any that shall desire further proofe, and in stead of declaring by letters p. 307the offence, I doe by printing declare it, and require of the Churches, especially M^r Sympsons Church, as they will not be guilty of suffering known sinne in the Church, as they would not suffer sinne to lye upon a brother, and as they would vindicate the glory and honour of Christ, that they call M^r Sympson to an account and admonish him, and bring him to publike repentance for his publike sin, or else upon impenitencie and obstinacie that they cast him out of the Church; and I beleeve the sin he is charged with will fall under the subject of that dreadfull sentence according to what sins your selves judge that sentence is to be put in execution for, Apol. pag. 9. But if M^r Sympsons Church neglect, and will not question this sin, then I desire the rest of the Churches of that Communion to send to the Churches of the Apologists, and to charge them with their countenancing of sin, and if the Churches will still beare and wink at sin, and continue impenitent, that then the rest of the Churches, namely, M^r Lockiers, Mr Carters, D^r Holmes, &c. doe pronounce the heavy sentence of Non-communion against the Apologists Churches, and further to dèclare and protest this with the causes thereof to all other Churches of Christ, that they may doe the like, to send also to New-England, and give notice to all the Churches of the Separation, that they may Non-communion the Apologists Churches. But if the particular Churches of the Apologists, and all the Churches of their owne Communion will all hold to favour sin, neither question the Apologists, nor their Churches, then we shall have a cleare instance of the partialitie of those Churches, and of their allowing of sin among themselves, and of the insu…ticiencie of those Remedies of Submission, Non-Communion, Declaration and Protestation.

FINIS.

End of the text · Thomas Edwards, Full Answer to Apologetical Narration (1644)