Baxters Narrative of His Life and Times, Part 2 · Section 11 · Floating text 4
The Answer to the foresaid Paper.
Right Reverend, &C.
AS it was your desire that we should return an Answer to these Three Proposals only in our own Names who are but Three, so we must here profess therefore, that it is not to be taken as the Act of the rest of our Brethren the Commissioners; but as part of the Conference to which we are deputed: And though we are the Managers of the Treaty for Pacification or Agreement, and not the Managers of the Division, and therefore cannot take our selves to be the Persons meant by the Author of the Proposals; yet we are glad to take the opportunity of your invitation, to profess that the principal part of these Proposals is so Rational, Regular and Christian-like, that we not only approve of, but should be fully satisfied (as to the Debates before us) with the real grant of the first alone, and not be wanting in our Duty, according to our Understanding and Ability, in endeavouring to accomplish the Ends of your Desires in the rest: More particularly,
Ad 1m, Though we find by your Papers and Conference that in your own personal Doctrines, there is something that we take to be against the Word of God; and perceive that we understand not the Doctrine of the Church in all things alike, yet we find nothing contrary to the Word of God in that which is indeed the Doctrine of the Church, as it comprehendeth the Matters of Faith, distinct from Matter of Discipline, Ceremonies and Modes of Worship.
As to Discipline, there was given into his Majesty, before his Declaration came forth, a Summary of what we think to be contrary to the Word of God, which we shall more fully give in to you or any others whenever we are … called to it.
For the Common Prayer and Ceremonies we have in our Exceptions and Reply delivered you an Account of what we take to be unlawful and inconvenient: And we humbly crave that our Reasons may be yet impartially considered. At present we shall humbly offer you our Judgment concerning the following Particulars, and profess our readiness to make it good when we are called to it. It is contrary to the Word of God,
1. That no Minister be admitted to Baptize without the prescribed use of the Transient Image of the Cross.
2. That no Minister be permitted to read or pray, or exercise the other parts of his Office that dare not wear a Surplice.
3. That none be admitted in Communion to the Lord's Supper, that dare not receive it kneeling: and that all Ministers be enjoyned to deny it to such.
4. That Ministers be forced to pronounce all baptized Infants to be Regenerate by the Holy Ghost (whether they be the Children of Christians or not).
5. That Ministers be forced to deliver the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ, unto the unfit, both in their Health and Sickness: and that with personal application putting it into their hands: and that such are forced to receive it, though against their own wills, in the Conscience of their Impenitency.
6. That Ministers be forced to Absolve the unfit; and that in absolute Expressions.
7. That they are forced to give thanks for all whom they Bury, as Brethren whom God in mercy hath delivered and taken to himself.
8. That none may be a Preacher that dare not Subscribe that there is nothing in the Common Prayer Book, the Book of Ordination, and the Nine and thirty Articles, that is contrary to the Word of God:—These are most of the things which we judge contrary to the Word of God, which at present come to our remembrance. So we humbly desire, that whenever you would have us give you a full enumeration of such, we may have leave to consult with the rest of our Brethren, and deliver it to you by our Common Consent. And we humbly crave that all these Points may be taken into serious Consideration, and those of them which we have not yet debated, we are ready to debate and give in our Arguments, whenever we are called to it, to prove them all contrary to the Word of God. And may we be so happy as to have this Proposal granted us, we shall undoubtedly have Unity and Peace.
Ad 2 m, We suppose according to the Laws of distinguishing, you speak in this second Proposal of all things so inexpedient as not to be contrary to the Word of God. Otherwise the greatest Sins may be committed by inexpediences: As a Physician may murder a Man by giving him inexpedient Medicines; and a General may destroy his Army by inexpedient ways of Conduct and Defence. And the Pastor may be guilty of the Damnation of his People by Doctrines and Applications inexpedient and unsuitable to their state: And a way of worship may be so inexpedient as to be sinful and loathsom unto God; such is the Battology or thinking to be heard for affected Repetitions or Bablings; Pharisaical Thanksgivings, that Men are better than indeed they are, with abundance such like: But supposing that you here speak of no such inexpedient things, but such as are not contrary to the Word of God, We add,
Ad 3 m, We are thankful that in such Matters we may have leave to make any such Proposals as are here mentioned: but we shall not be forward to busie ourselves, and trouble others about such little things, without a Special Call: If the Convocation at any time desire an account of our Thoughts about such Matters, we shall readily produce them.
And for [acquiescing in their Judgments in such Matters] what we Three do in that point, is but of small consequence: And for others, seeing the Ministers that we speak for, were many Hundreds of them displaced or removed before the advice of the Convocation, and others denied their Votes, because not Ordained by Diocesans, and others not approving the Constitution of our Convocations durst not meddle in the choice: We cannot tell how far they will think themselves obliged by the Determination of this Convocation. But this can be no matter of impediment to your Satisfaction or ours: For we are commonly agreed that we are bound in Conscience to obey the King and all his Magistrates in all lawful things; and with Christian patience to suffer what he inflicteth on us for not obeying in things unlawful: And therefore while we acquiesce thus far in the Judgment of those who must make the Decrees of the Convocation to be civilly obligatory, and the King intendeth to take their Advice before he determine of such Matters; It is all one as to the end, as if we directly did thus far acquiesce in the Judgment of the Convocation, if the King approve it: But if the King and Parliament dissent or disallow the Convocation's Judgment (as it is possible they may have cause to do) would you have us acquiesce in it, when King and Parliament do not?
And for the last part of the Proposal, by God's Assistance, (if you do not silence or disable us) we are resolved faithfully to teach the People, that the Division of the Church is worse than inexpedient; and the Peace of it not to be disturbed for the avoiding of any such inexpediences as are not contrary to the Word of God: We conclude with the Repetition of our more earnest Request, That these wise and moderate Proposals may be prosecuted, and all things be abated us which we have proved, or shall prove to be contrary to the Word of God. But if we agree not on those things among our selves according to his Majesty's Commission, the World may know we did our parts.
When the Liberty of using the Alterations and Additional Forms which were offered to you according to his Majesty's Declaration, would end all our Differences about Matters of Worship: And when you have had them in your hands so long, since you called for them, and have not, notwithstanding the Importunity of our Requests, vouchsafed us any Debates upon them, or Exceptions against them, but are pleased to lay them by in silence; We once more propose to you, Whether the granting of what you cannot blame, be not now the shortest and the surest way to a general Satisfaction.
Note here, That I offered to my Brethren two more Particulars as contrary to the Word of God: which were,
1. That none may have leave in Publick Worship to use a more suitable orderly way; but all are confined to this Liturgy, which is so defective and disorderly(which we are even now ready to manifest if you will receive it.)
2. That none may be a Minister of the Gospel that dare not subject himself by an Oath of Obedience, to the Diocesans in that State of Government which they exercised in this Land, (contrary to the practice of all Antiquity).
These Ten Things I offered as contrary to the Word of God, but the two Brethren with me thought these two last were better left out, lest they occasion new Debates, though they judged them true.
§ 208. When I read and delivered these Papers, the Bishops were much displeased, that I should charge so many things on the Church as Sins: Where you may note the marvellous oscitancy of these men, that when they had treated with us so long, and received so many large Exceptions and Replys, and in all had heard us open the sinfulness of their way, they should yet imagine that we had accused their way but of inexpediency, and think to gratifie themselves by such a poor device. But their main design was to divide us, while they set us upon distinguishing all their sins from their inexpediences; and they thought that one would take that for inexpedient only, which others took to be sin. And they considered not that we were now treating what should be imposed, and not what should be obeyed if it were imposed: and that we would charge Sin upon their Impositions, in many points which might lawfully be done when Imposed, rather than to forsake the Churches. And if I did the Church any Service in all these Debates, it was principally by frustrating their evil design, of dividing us; so that all the Snares that ever they could lay for us, never procured them just advantage, once truly to say, that we disagreed among our selves. For though there were enow at a distance, who could not have agreed to all that we did, yet we so far left them out (though to the displeasure both of the Prelatists and them, that no discord was found in any of our Proposals or Debates): which cut some of them more to the heart, than all that else we did to their displeasure.
§ 209. By this time, our frequent crossing of their Expectations, I saw had made some of the Bishops angry: above all Bishop Morley, who over-ruled the whole business, and did interess himself in it deeplier than the rest, and was of a hotter Spirit and a readier Tongue. But that which displeased them most was the freedom of my Speeches to them, that is, that I spake to them as on terms of Equality as to the Cause; yet with all honourable Titles to their Persons: For I perceived that they had that eminency of Power and Interest, that the greatest Lords were glad of their favour, did expect that the presence of so many of them should have awed us into such a silence, or cowardliness, as should have betrayed our Cause; or at least that their Vehemency, and Passions, and Interruptions should have put us out of Countenance; But I intreated them to give us leave, with the due honour of their Persons, to use that necessary liberty of Speech to them, as beseemed such as are very confident that they plead for the Cause of God, and the happiness and healing of a bleeding Church, and that upon the warrant of the King's Commission: And I must say, that though they frowned at my freedom of Speech, they never once accused me of any unmannerly or unreverent Language.
§ 210. When we were going to our Disputation, Dr. Pierce asked whether he that was none of the three deputed by them to that Service, might joyn with the rest: And we told that we cared not how many joyned; the more the better: for if any one of them could see any Evidence of Truth which the rest did overlook, it would redound to our Benefit, who desired nothing but the Victory of Truth.
§ 211. And before he began with them, he would fain have had one bout with me himself: Whereas I moved them to some Christian Charity to all those Consciencious Christians, that were to be put away from the Communion of the Church, if they did but scruple the lawfulness of kneeling in the reception of the Sacrament (though I still profest to them that I held it not unlawful my self, when the Sacrament could not be otherwise had) Dr. Pierce offered himself to a Disputation, to prove that (let them be never so many) it is an Act of Mercy to them to put them all from the Communion of the Church: I easily perceived what advantage his Confidence and Passion gave me, and I intreated him to try his skill, but his Brethren would not give him leave: I earnestly entreated them to give him leave but to try one Argument, but I could not prevail with them; being wiser than to suffer his Passion to expose their Cause to Laughter and Contempt: But yet he could not forbear to cast out his medium, and tell us how he would have argued; viz. That they that receive the Sacrament, being in judgment against kneeling in the Act of Receiving, do receive it Schismatically, and so to their own Damnation: Ergo it is an Act of Charity to keep them from the Communion of the Church. Where note, That our Dispute was only whether the Legistators should by Laws or Canons keep them away, and not whether a Pastor, supposing such Laws existent, should keep them away: And therefore by making it damnable Schism antecedently to our Laws, he must needs mean that some Foreign Laws (or General Councils) do prove it Schism, or else the Custom of the Universal Church. And as to the first, I did at large there prove that the Twentieth Canon of the Council at Nice, and the Concil. Trull. and the most ancient Writers, do unanimously decree against kneeling, and make it universally unlawful (and that by Apostolical Tradition) [to adore kneeling] on any Lord's Day in the Year, and on any other Day between Easter and Whitsunday; and that no General Council hath reversed this, till meer Disuse and contrary Custom did it. And for Custom, the Protestant Churches concur not in that Custom, nor are they Schismaticks for differing from the Papists and others that do so; nor is it better for them all to be without any Church Communion, than not to kneel in the Act of Receiving: Nor do the Papists themselves make every Man a Schismatick that followeth not the Custom of their Church in every particular Gesture, unless he separate from their Church it self; much less do they pronounce Damnation on all such. But if it were the Law of our own Land or Church which he thought made it Schism, then he might as well have so argued for sitting or standing, and against kneeling, viz. [That it is Charity to make a Law is keep all from Church… Communion that will kneel, because when such a Law is made, it is damnable Schism to kneel]. But the very truth is, I perceived so little Compassion to Souls in the zealous and swaying Managers of these Controversies, and so little regard of the Scruples and Tenderness of Godly People who were afraid of Sinning, a… that I scarce thought among Protestants there had been any such. Whether they would have abated one Ceremony if they had had an hundred more, to keep all the Dissenters in three Nations from being cast out of the Ministry and Church, I know not; but of those they have they would not abate one: which made me oft think, that their Spirits are much more like the Papists than their Formal Worship and Discipline is; so much do they agree in destroying Men for their Opinions and Ceremonies sake: and in Building the Tombs of the Prophets, and over-honouring the dead Saints, while they go on to hate and destroy the living. And it made me oft remember Bishop Hall's Character of an Hyprocrite [who boweth at the Name of Iesus, and sweareth by the Name of God, and would set all the World on fire for a Circumstances]. And it made me remember what that learned godly Minister Mr Spinage hath oft told me, and many others, and is still ready to justifie upon Oath, that being heretofore familiar with this Mr. Thomas Pierce, and saying once to him; [These Men that you so abhor, are very godly Men, and have much Communion with God] he brake out into this Answer, [A pou on this Communion with God]. And it made me think of Augustine's Description of the sottish Worldlings, [that had far rather thus were one Star fewer in Heaven, than one Cow or one Tree the fewer in their Grounds:] For somewhat the like Passage, see Rushw. Hist. Callect. 3 part. Vol. 1. 134.So had these Men rather One thousand eight hundred godly faithful Ministers were silenced at once, and a Hundred thousand godly Christians kept out of the Churches Communion and persecuted, than one Ceremony should be cast out of the Church, or left indifferent, or one Line reformed in their Common-Prayers.
§ 212. But when Dr. Pierce could not have leave to take up his Dispute, he sat upon me with kind Persuasions; and Bishop Morley (and he) first told me, that it was strange I should make such a stir for other Mens Liberty to forbear kneeling in the act of Receiving, when I profest my self to take it to be lawful: I told them that they might perceive then, that I argued not from Interest and Opinion; but from Charity, and for Love and Peace. They told me that it was we that had filleds the Peoples Heads with these Scruples, and then when we should dispossess them of them, we pleaded for their Liberty: If I would but teach the People better, they would quickly be brought to Obedience, and would need no Liberty. I told the Bishop, that he was much mistaken, both in saying that we put these Scruples into their Heads, and in thinking that my Power with them was so great, as that I alone could preach them out. He reply'd with great Confidence, that if I would but endeavour in good earnest to satisfy them, they would quickly be satisfied. I told him that he had both before the King, and here, declared that no Man had written better about the Ceremonies than I had; and had produced my Book: and therefore I thought he confuted himself: For I wrote that Book before the King came in, even in the hea… of the Nations Zeal against Ceremonies; and how then is it like, that I put those Scruples into their Heads when I wrote against them? And I thought Writing was the publickest manner of Teaching, where I spake to many thousands who could never hear my Voice: How then could he say that I wrote so well, and yet did not reach the People what I wrote? But I told him that he must pardon me, that in the Pulpit I found greater matters to do than to preach for Ceremonies, and could never think that such kind of preaching tended most to the saving of Mens Souls. And I many times told him and the rest, that I perceived that it was like to be a great Wrong to us, and a greater to themselves and the Kingdom, that they mistakingly imagined our Power to be greater with the People than it is, and that they think we could reduce them at our Pleasure to Conformity, when it is no such matter; and that they imagin that the Godly People who dissent from them, do pin their Religion so absolutely on our Sleeves, and take up all their Opinions on trust from us: Whereas I assured him, that he will find by Experience that so many of them know why they hold what they hold, and do it so purely for Conscience sake, that if all we should turn and set against them, there would so many thousands continue in their Opinions, as I would not be a Persecutor of, or excommunicate for more than ever their Lordships will get by it. But the Bishop exprest more confidence still, that I could reclaim them my self if I were but willing, and that they only followed the Opinions of their Teachers. I intreated him again to tell me, why then they did not follow my Opinion which he himself saith I have published in Print. Hereupon Dr. Pierce would needs lovingly desire that he and I might but go about the Country and preach People to Conformity, and he did not doubt but they would quickly be reduced. I told him that for his part, I knew not how powerful his preaching might be, but I could expect no such Success of mine; and I marvelled why he had not recovered all the Country before this Day, having had so many Years time to have gone about and preacht them to Conformity, if he would have used it. He answered, That he had recovered all his own Parish. I told him, That if he had done so by all others, there would have been no need of all this Trouble: But I often told the Bishop and him, that they knew that though I took not kneeling to be unlawful, yet I took their Subscriptions and Oath of canonical Obedience, and other things to be unlawful; and I perceived that they intended no Abatements, and consequently that they intend the silencing of me, and all that are of my Mind (for all their Commendation of my Writing on that Subject): And I ask't them then, how I can go about to preach for them, when they have first silenced me? Or if they would be so favourable to forbear me till I had done preaching for their Ceremonies, it was but an odd kind of motion for them to make [come preach for our Ceremonies so long, and then you shall never preach more;] and an odd Employment for me to undertake, to go about to persuade People to obey them in a Ceremony or two, that are intended when that is done, to forbid me and others to preach the Gospel, and the People to enjoy their Peace upon other Accounts; and no doubt to call us Schismaticks when they do it. This Speech they were offended at, and said, that I sought to make them odious, by representing them as cruel, and Persecutors, as if they intended to silence and cast out so many. And it was one of the greatest matters of Offence against me, that I foreknew and foretold them what they were about to do. They said, that this was but to stir up the Fears of the People, and cause them to disaffect the Government, by talking of silencing us, and casting out the People from Communion. I told them that either they do intend such a Course or not: If they do, why should they think us criminal for knowing it? If not, what need had we of all these Disputes with them? which were only to persuade them not to cast out the Ministers and the People on these Accounts. And it was but a few Weeks after this that Bishop Morley himself did silence me, forbidding me to preach in his Diocess, who now took it so heinously that I did foretell it: Yet, because the Hearers knew not what would be, their Party justified them, and concurred in censuring me as uncharitable for speaking to hardly of them, and this maketh me remember that thus I have formerly been blamed by all, whose Miscarriages I foretold: When I told many both of the Parliament and Country, what the Army did intend to do against them (and many others more particularly foretold it); the Army was angry with (them and) me, and accused us of making them odious by our Slanders (and cast out many Members of the Parliament on that Pretence); and yet within a few Weeks they did the very things that we foretold: So unanimous are all Men that have ill Designs, in going the same way to their Accomplishment; and so dangerous is it to foreknow what cruel Men are about to do.
§ 213. You have had the Substance of our wandering Discourses; you are next to have our as unprofitable Disputes: In which all was to be managed in Writing ex tempore, by Dr. Pierson, Dr. Gunning, and Dr. Sparrow, with Dr. Pierce on one side; and Dr. Bates, Dr. Iacomb, and my self on the other side; we withdrawing into the next Room, and leaving the Bishops and them together, while we wrote our part: And we began with the Imposition of Kneeling, upon two Accounts, (though I took the Gesture it self as lawful) 1. Because I knew I had the fullest Evidence, and the greatest Authority of Antiquity or Church-Law and Custom against them. 2. Because the Penalty is so immediate and great (to put all that kneel not, from the Communion): And it was only the Penalty, and to the Imposition on that Penalty, which we disputed against.
§ 214. Oppon. Arg. Our Arguments.1. To enjoin all Ministers to deny the Communion to all that dare not kneel in the Reception of the Sacrament on the Lord's days is sinful.
But the Common-Prayer-Book and Canons enjoin all Ministers to deny the Communion to all that dare not kneel in the Reception of the Sacrament on the Lord's Days.
Ergo the Common-Prayer-Book and Canons, do (or contain) that which is sinful.
Resp. Not granting nor denying the Major, in the first place prove the Minor.
Oppon. Their Answer.We prove both: 1. Prob. Major. To enjoin Ministers to deny the Communion to Men, because they dare not go against the Practice of the Apostles, and the universal Church for many hundred Years after them, and the Canons of the most venerable Councils is sinful.
But to enjoin Ministers to deny Communion to all that dare not kneel in the Reception of the Sacrament on the Lord's Days, is to enjoin them to deny Communion to them, because they dare not go against the Practice of the Apostles, and the universal Church for many hundred Years after them, and the Canons of the most venerable Councils.
Ergo. To enjoin all Ministers to deny Communion to all that dare not kneel in the Reception of the Sacrament on the Lord's Day is sinful.
Prob. Minor. The Words of the Common-Prayer-Book and Canons prove it.
Resp. The Minor (viz. as to the Common-Prayer-Book, of which the Proof must proceed) is not yet proved.
But the Major (which we had not then spoke to, but now do, clearly denying that Major also of the first Syllogisin) you prove by the Syllogism brought; in which we deny the Minor.
§ 215. Here we told them, That for the Proof of both Propositions denyed, the Presence of the Book is necessary, which we desired them to procure us; but they were not fatcht. And first we had a large Debate about the Words of the Common-Prayer, [He shall deliver it them kneeling on their knees]: Dr. Pierson confessed, that the Canons did reject them that kneel not, from the Communion; but these Words of the Common-Prayer-Book do not: But they only include Kneelers, but exclude not others. We answered them, that either the Common-Prayer-Book doth exclude them that kneel not, or it doth not: If it doth, the Proposition is true: If it do not, then we shall willingly let fall this Argument against it, and proceed to another: Therefore I desired them but to tell us openly their own judgment of the Sense of the Book; for we professed to argue against it only on Supposition of the exclusive Sense.
§ 216. Hereupon unavoidably they fell into Discord among themselves: Dr. Pierson, who was to defend the Book, told us his judgment was, that the Sense was not exclusive: Bishop Morley, who was to offend the Nonconformists, gave his judgment for the exclusive Sense; viz. That the Minister is to give it to Kneelers, and no others. So that we professed to them, That we could not go any further, till they agreed among themselves, of their Sense.
§ 217. And for the other Minor denied, though the Books were not present, I alledged the 20th Canon Concil. Nicaen. & Concil. Trull. and Tertullian oft, and Epiphanius, with the common Consent of ancient Writers, who tell us, it was the Tradition and Custom of the universal Church, not to adore by Genuflexion on any Lord's Day, or on any Day between Easter and Whitsuntide. Ergo, not so to adore in taking the Sacrament.
§ 218. Bishop Morley answered,Note this great Bishop's Acquaintance with Antiquity. That this was the Custom but only between Easter and Whitsuntide, and therefore it being otherwise the rest of the Year, was more against us. I answered him that he mistook, where a multitude of Evidences might rectifie him, it was on every Lord's Day through the Year, that this Adoration by Genuflexion was forbidden: though on other Week-days it was only between Easter and Whitsuntide.
§ 219. Next he and the rest insisted on it, that these Canons and Customs extended only to Prayer. To which I answered, That 1. The plain words are against them, where some speak of all Adoration, and others more largely of the publick Worship, and offered to bring them full Proof from the Books, as soon as they would give me time. 2. And if it were only in Prayer, it is all one to our Case: For the Liturgy giveth the Sacrament with Words of Prayer; and it is the common Argument brought for kneeling, that it's suitable to the conjunct Prayer. And I told them over and over, that Antiquity was so clear in the point, that I desired all might be laid on that, and I might have time to bring them in my Testimonies. But thus that Argument was turned off, and the Evening broke off that part of the Dispute.