Baxters Narrative of His Life and Times, Part 2 · Section 11 · Floating text 2 – Floating text 3

Baxters Narrative of His Life and Times · Part 2 · Section 11 · Floating text 2 – Floating text 3

p. 321Concerning Morning and Evening Prayer.

In the Letany.

The Collect on Christmas Day.

The Collect for Whitsunday.

The Order for the Administration of the Lord's Supper.

And we desire that the following Rubrick in the Common-Prayer-Book in 5 and 8 Edw. established by Law as much as any other part of the Common-Prayer-Book, may be restored for the vindicating of our Church in the matter of Kneeling at the Sacrament (although the Gesture be left indifferent) [Although no order can be so perfectly devised, but it may be of some, either for their Ignorance and Infirmity, or else of Malice and Obstinacy, misconstrued, depraved, and interpreted in a wrong part; and yet, because brotherly Charity willeth that so much p. 326-327as conveniently may be, Offences should be taken away, therefore are we willing to do the same. Whereas it is ordained in the Book of Common…Prayer, in the Administration of the Lord's Supper, that the Communicant kneeling should receive the holy Communion, which thing being well meant for a signification of the humble and grateful Acknowledging of the Benefits of Christ given unto the worthy Receivers, and to avoid the prophanation and disorder which about the holy Communion might else ensue, lest yet the same Kneeling might be thought or taken otherwise, We do declare, that it is not meant thereby that any Adoration is done or ought to be done either unto the Sacramental Bread or Wine, there bodily received, or unto any real or essential Presence there being of Christ's natural Flesh and Blood: For as concerning the Sacramental Bread and Wine, they remain still in their very natural Substances, and therefore may not be adored; for that were Idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful Christians: and as concerning the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ, they are in Heaven, and not here, for it is against the Truth of Christ's natural Body to be in more places than in one at one time.

Of Publick Baptism.

THERE being divers Learned, Pious, and Peaceable Ministers, who not only judge it unlawful to Baptize Children, whose Parents both of them are Atheists, Infidels, Hereticks, or Unbaptised, but also such whose Parents are Excommunicate Persons, Fornicators, or otherwise notorious and scandalous Sinners; We desire they may not be enforced to Baptize the Children of such, until they have made due Profession of their Repentance.

Of Private Baptism.

WE desire that Baptism may not be administred in a private place at any time, unless by a lawful Minister, and in the presence of a competent Number: That where it is evident that any Child hath been so baptised, no part of the Administration may be reiterated in publick, under any Limitations: And therefore we see no need of any Liturgy in that Case.

p. 328Of the Catechism.

In the general we observe, That the Doctrine of the Sacraments which was added upon the Conference at Hampton-Court, is much more fully and particularly delivered than the other parts of the Catechism, in short Answers fitted to the memories of Children, and thereupon we offer it to be considered:

First, Whether there should not be a more distinct and full Explication of the Creed, the Commandments, and the Lord's Prayer.

Secondly, Whether it were no convenient to add (what seems to be wanting) somewhat particularly concerning the Nature of Faith, of Repentance, the two Covenants, of Justification, Sanctification, Adoption, and Regeneration.

p. 329Of Confirmation.

Of the Form of Solemnization of Matrimony.

Of the Order for the Visitation of the Sick.

That the Form of Absolution be Declarative and Conditional, as [I pronounce the… absolved] instead of [I absolve thee] if thou doest truly repent and believe.

Of the Communion of the Sick.

p. 332-333Of the Order for the Burial of the Dead.

WE desire it may be expressed in a Rubrick, that the Prayers and Exhortations here used are not for the benefit of the Dead, but only for the Instruction and Comfort of the Living.

Of the Thanksgiving of Women after Child-birth commonly called Churching of Women.

Thus have we in all humble pursuance of his Majesty's most gracious Endeavours for the publick weal of this Church, drawn up our Thoughts and Desires in this weighty Affair, which we humbly offer to his Majesty's Commissioners for their serious and grave Consideration, wherein we have not the least thought of depraving or reproaching the Book of Common Prayer, but a sincere desire to contribute our Endeavours towards the Healing the Distempers, and (as soon as may be) reconciling the Minds of Brethren. And inasmuch as his Majesty hath in his gracious Declaration and Commission mentioned new Forms to be made and suted to the several Parts of Worship; We have made a considerable progress therein, and shall (by God's assistance) offer them to the Reverend Commissioners with all convenient speed. And if the Lord shall graciously please to give a Blessing to these our Endeavours, we doubt not but the Peace of the Church will be thereby setled, the Hearts of Ministers and People comforted and composed, and the great Mercy of Unity and Stability (to the immortal Honour of our most dear Soveraign) bestowed upon us and our Posterity after us.

§ 175. When the Exceptions against the Liturgy were finished, the Brethren oft read over the Reformed Liturgy which I offered them. At first they would have had no Rubrick or Directory, but bare Prayers, because they thought our Commission allowed it not: That at last they yielded to the Reasons which I gave them, and resolved to take them in. But first to offer the Bishops their Exceptions.

§ 176. At this time was the Convocation chosen: for till now it was deferred. Had it been called when the King came in, the inferiour Clergy would have been against the Diocesan and Imposing way: But afterwards many hundreds were turned out that all the old sequestred Ministers might come in. And the Opinion of Reordination being set afoot, all those Ministers, that for Twenty years together, while Bishops were laid aside, had been Ordained without Diocesans, were in many Countreys denied any Voices in the Election of Clerks for the Convocation: By all which means, and by the Scruples of abundance of Ministers, who thought it unlawful to have any thing to do in the choosing of such a kind of Assembly, the Diocesan Party wholly carried it in the Choice.

§ 177. In London the Election was appointed to be in Christ's Church, on the Second day of May (1661). The London Ministers that were not yet ejected, proved the major Vote against the Diocesan Party, and when I went to have joyned with them, they sent to me not to come, as they did also to Mr. Calamy, and (without my knowledge) they chose Mr. Calamy and me for London. But they carried it against the other Party but by Three Voices: And the Bishop of London having the power of choosing Two out of Four (or Four out of Six) that are chosen by the Ministers in a certain Circuit, did give us the great use of being both left out, and so we were excused, and the City of London had no Clerk in the Convocation. How should I have been there baited, and what a vexatious place should I have had in such a Convocation!

p. 334§ 178. The fourth day of May, we had a meeting with the Bishops, where we gave in our Paper of Exceptions to them; which they received.

§ 179. The seventh day of May was a Meeting at Sion-Colledge of all the London Ministers, for the choice of a President and Assistants for the next Year: where (some of the Presbyterians upon a pettish Scruple absenting themselves) the Diocesane Party carried it, and so got the Possession and Rule of the Colledge.

§ 180. The eighth day of May the new Parliament and Convocation sat down, being constituted of Men fitted and devoted to the Diocesan Interest.

§ 181. On the two and twentieth day of May, by order of Parliament, the National Vow and Covenant was burnt in the Street, by the Hands of the common Hangman.

§ 182. When the Brethren came to examine the reformed Liturgy, and had oft read it over, they past it at last in the same Words that I had written it, save only that they put out a few Lines in the Administration of the Lord's Supper, where the Word offering was used; and they put out a Page of Reasons for Infant Baptism, which I had annexed to that Office, thinking it unnecessary; and they put the larger Litany into an Appendix as thinking it too long; and Dr. Wallis was desired to draw up the Prayer for the King, which is his Work (being after somewhat altered by us). And we agreed to put before it a short Address to the Bishops, professing our readiness in Debates to yield to the shortning of any thing which should be too long, and the altering of any thing that should be found amiss.

§ 183. And because I foresaw what was like to be the end of our Conference, I desired the Brethren that we might draw up a plain and earnest Petition to the Bishops, to yield to such Terms of Peace and Concord as they themselves did confess to be lawful to be yielded to: For though we are equals in the King's Commission, yet we are commanded by the Holy Ghost, If it be possible, and as much as in us lieth to live peaceably with all men, Rom. 12. 18. and to follow peace with all men, Heb. 12. 14. and if we were denied, it would satisfy our Consciences, and justify us before all the World, much more than if we only disputed for it: However we might this way have that opportunity to produce our Reasons for Peace, which else we were not like to have.

§ 184. This Motion was accepted, and I was desired to draw up the Petition, which I did, and it was examined, and with a Word or two of Alteration consented to.

§ 185. When we met with the Bishops to deliver in these Papers, I was required to deliver them; and if it were possible, to get Audience for the Petition before all the Company. I told them, that though we were Equals in the present Work, and our appointed business was to treat, yet we were conscious of our Place and Duty, and had drawn up a Petition to them, which, though somewhat long, I humbly craved their Consent that I might read it to them, Some were against it, and so they would have been generally if they had known what was in it; but at last they yielded to it: But their Patience was never so put to it by us, as in hearing so long, and ungrateful a Petition. When I had read it, Dr. Gunning beginneth a long and vehement Speech against it: To which when he came to the end, I replyed: But I was interrupted in the midst of my Reply; and was fain to bear it, because they had been patient (with much ado) so long before.

§ 186. I delivered them the Petition when I had read it, and with it a fair Copy of our reformed Liturgy, called [Additional Forms and Alterations] of theirs. And they received both, and so we departed.

Our said Writings are too long to be here inserted.

§ 187. After all this, when the Bishops were to have sent us two Papers, one of their Concessions how much they would alter of the Liturgy as excepted against, and the other of their Acceptance of our offered Forms, or Reasons against them, instead of both these, a good while after, they sent us such a Paper as they did before, of their Reasonings against all our Exceptions, without any Abatements or Alterations at all, that are worth the Naming. Our Brethren seeing what they were resolved to bring it too, and how unpeaceably they managed the Business, did think best to write them a plain Answer to their Paper, and not to suppress it as we had done by the First. This Task also they imposed on me, and I went out of Town to Dr. Spurstow's House in Hackney for Retirement, where in eight Days time I drew up a Reply to their Answer to our Exceptions; and the Brethren read it and consented to it; only wished that it had been larger in the latter end, where I had purposely been brief, because I had been too large in the beginning. p. 335and because Particulars may be answered satisfactority in a few Words, when the General Differences are fully cleared.

§ 188. By this time our Commission was almost expired, and therefore our Brethren were earnestly desirous of personal Debates with them, upon the Papers put in to try how much Alteration they would yield to: Therefore we sent to the Bishops to desire it of them; and at last they yielded to it, when we had but Ten Days more to treat.

§ 189. When we met them, I delivered them the Answer of their former Papers (the largeness of which I saw displeased them) and they received it. And we earnestly prest them to spend the little time remaining in such pacifying Conference as tended to the ends which are mentioned in the King's Declaration and Commission, and told them, that such Disputes which they had called us to by their manner of Writing, were not the thing which we desired or thought most conducing to those ends.

§ 190. I have reason to think that the Generality of the Bishops and Doctors present never knew what we offered them in the reformed Liturgy, nor in this Reply, nor in any of our Papers, save those few which we read openly to them. For they were put up and carried away, and I conjecture scarce any but the Writers of their Confutations would be at the Labour of reading them over. And I remember in the midst of our last Disputation, when I drew out the short Preface to this last Reply (which Mr. Calamy wrote, to enumerate in the beginning before their Eyes, many of the grossest Corruptions which they stifly defended and refused to reform) the Company was more ashamed and silent, than at any thing else that I had said; by which I perceived that they had never read or heard that very Preface, which was as an Epistle to themselves: Yea, the chief of them confessed when they bid me read it, that they knew no such thing: So that it seems before they knew what was in them, they resolved to reject our Papers, right or Wrong, and to deliver them up to their Contradictors.

§ 191. When we came to our Debates, I first craved of them their Animadversions on our Additions, and Alterations of the Liturgy, which we had put in long before; and that they would tell us what they allowed, or disallowed in them, that we might have the use of them according to the Words in the King's Declaration and Commission. But they would not by any Importunity be intreated at all to debate that, nor to give any of their Opinions about those Papers. There were no Papers that ever we offered them that had the Fate of those: Though it was there that some of them thought to have found recriminating matter of Exception: yet could we never prevail with them to say any thing about them in Word or Writing; but once Bishop Morley told us of their length, to which I answered that we had told them in our Preface, that we were ready to abbreviate any thing which on debate should appear too long; but that the Purity of the Prayers made the ordinary Lord's day Prayers far should than theirs. And since we had given our Exceptions against theirs, if they would neither by Word nor Writing except against ours, nor yet give their Consent to them, they would not honour their Cause or Conference. But all could not extort either Debates on that Subject, or any Reprehensions of what we had offered them. Nor have they since to this Day, in any of their Writings (which ever I could see or hear of) said a Word in way of Exception against those Papers: Yea, when Roger L'Estrange himself wrote (according to his manner) a malicious Invective against our several Papers, when they were afterwards printed, he could find little to say against our Liturgy, but that we left it to the Liberty of the Minister in several Cases, to pray [in these Words, or to this Sense]. And is that all the fault (besides the Length forementioned)? Did they not know that it belongeth to the Prelates, and not to such as we, to deprive Men of their Liberty in praying? If they had desired it, how easy had it been for them to have dasht out that one Clause [or to this Sense]? and then it had been beyond their Exception. What measure of Liberty Ministers shall have, it is not we, but they that must determine.

§ 192. When they had cast out that part of our desired Conference, our next business was to desire them by friendly Conference, to go over the Particulars which we excepted against, and to tell us how much they could abate, and what Alterations they could yield to. This Bishop Reignolds oft prest them to, and so did all the rest of us that spake. But they resolutely insisted on it, that they had nothing to do till we had proved that there was any necessary of Alteration, which we had not yet done; and that they were there ready to answer to our Proofs: We urged them again and again with the very Words of the King's Declaration p. 336and Commission, 1. That the ends expressed are [for the removal of all Exceptions and Occasions of Exceptions, and Differences from among our good Subjects,] and [for giving Satisfaction to tender Consciences, and the restoring and continuance of Peace and Unity in the Churches.] 2. And the means is (to make such reasonable and necessary Alterations, Corrections, and Amendments therein, as shall be agreed upon to be needful and expedient, for the giving Satisfaction to tender Consciences, and restoring and continuing Peace, &c.] We plainly shewed hence that the King supposeth that some Alterations must be made: But the Bishops insisted on two Words [necessary] Alterations, and [such as should be agreed on]. We answered them, That the Word [necessary] hath reference to the Ends expressed, viz. [the satisfying tender Consciences] and is joined with [Expedient]: And its strange if when the King hath so long and publickly determined of the End, and called us to consult of the means, we should presume now at last to contradict him, and to determine that the End it self is unnecessary, and consequently no means necessary thereto: What then have we all this while been doing? 2. And when they are called to [agree] on such necessary means, if they will take the Adventage of that Word, to [agree on nothing] that so all Endeavours may be frustrated for want of their Agreement, God and the World would judge between us, who it is that frustrateth the King's Commission, and the Hopes of a divided bleeding Church. Thus we continued a long time contending about this Point, [Whether some Alterations be supposed by the King's Declaration and Commission to be made by us? or whether we were anew to dispute that Point? But the Bishops would have that to be our Task or none; to prove by Disputation that any Alteration was necessary to be made; while they confuted our Proofs. We told them, that the End being [to satisfy tender Consciences and procure Unity,] those tender Consciences did themselves profess, that without some Alteration, and that considerable too, they could not be satisfied; and Experience told them, that Peace and Unity could not without it be attained. But still they said, that none was necessary, and they would yield to all that we proved necessary. And here we were lest in a very great Strait: If we should enter upon Dispute with them, we gave up the End and Hope of our endeavours: If we refused it, we knew that they would boast that when it came to the setting to, we would not so much as attempt to prove any thing unlawful in the Liturgy, nor durst dispute it with them. Mr. Calamy with some others of our Brethren would have had us refuse the Motion of disputing, as not tending to fulfil the King's Commands: We told the Bishops over and over, that they could not choose but know that before we could end one Argument in a Dispute, our time would be expired; and that it could not possibly tend to any Accommodation: And that to keep off from personal Conference, till within a few Days of the Expiration of the Commission, and then to resolve to do nothing but wrangle out the time in a Dispute, as if we were between jeast and earnest in the Schools, was too visibly in the sight of all the World, to defeat the King's Commission, and the Expectations of many Thousands, who longed for our Unity and Peace. But we spoke to the Deaf; they had other Ends, and were other Men, and had the Art to suit the means unto their Ends. For my part, when we faw that they would do nothing else, I persuaded our Brethren to yield to a Disputation with them, and let them understand that we were far from fearing it, seeing they would give us no hopes of Concord: but withal, first to profess to them, that the Guilt of disappointing his Majesty and the Kingdom, lay not upon us, who desired to obey the King's Commission, but on them. And so we yielded to spend the little time remaining, in disputing with them, rather than go home and do nothing, and leave them to tell the Court that we durst not dispute with them when they so provoked us, nor were able to prove our Accusations of the Liturgy.

§ 193. When this was resolved on, we spent many Hours with them about the Order of our Disputation: I offered them to spend one half of the time in the Opponents part, if they would promise to do the like the other half of the time, when we had done, that our Disputation might be on equal Terms. They refused this, and answered, That it belonged to us only to argue who were the Accusers, and not at all to them who were on the Defence. I told them it was we that are the Defendants against their Impositions: They command us to do such and such things, or else we shall be excommunicate, silenced, imprisoned, and undone: We desend our selves against this cruelty, by calling upon them to shew their Authority from God for such Impositions: Therefore we still call upon them to prove that God hath authorised them to any such thing: And if they refuse this, they do give up their Cause. We offered first to prove the unlawfulness of their Impositious, p. 337if they would afterward prove the lawfulness of them, or their Power so to impose them. On these Terms we stood with them about two Days, and they would not yield to prove any thing at all. At last I oft declared to them, that we would do our part, and prove their Impositions unlawful, whether they would do their part or on; but with an open Declaration that we took them for Deserters of their Cause. At last Dr. Pierson alone undertook that he would dispute for their Part, when we had performed ours, and we accepted of his Undertaking.

§ 194. Upon this, seeing it was to be all done in Writing, the rest of the Commissioners on both sides did choose three of a Party to manage the Dispute, that the other might withdraw themselves, because they had no more to do. The Bishops chose Dr. Pierson, Dr. Gunning, and Dr. Sparrow. **Since Bishops of Chester, Ely, and Norwich.The other side chose Dr. Bates, Dr. Iacomb, and my self: (for I never medled with the choice of any, only I would …ain have had Mr. William Moses, Mr. Gibbons, and Mr. Matthew Pool into the Commission, that I might have had their help in Disputing, because they were very quick, ingenuous Men, and I could not prevail.) The rest of our Brethren presently withdrew, and not a Man of them came near us any more; as supposing it contrary to the Agreement: But the Bishops came (some of them) from day to day; indeed on the second day they asked whether any more them the Disputants might be present: And I answered them, That we cared not how many of them were present: And after that, others that were not in the Commission asked, whether they might be present; and I told them the same. So that there came Dr. Pory, Dr. Crowther, and almost the Room full of them (with two or three Scholars and Lay-men, that as Auditors came in with us (Mr. Miles, Mr. Tillotson, &c.)

§ 195. When I began our first Argument, to prove their Impositions sinful, Bishop Cosins was offended at the Word [sinful]; and told me that I condemned all the Churches of Christ, who all of them imposed some Gesture or other, as much as that came to; and what intollerable Boldness was it in us to charge all the Churches of Christ with Sin! I answered him, 1. That many of the reformed Churches did not impose any such thing on their Terms; that is, to reject all from the Ministry and Communion that conformed not. 2. It was no Arrogance nor Uncharitableness, to charge all the Church and World with Sin: But he that saith. he hath no Sin, is a Lyar: In many things we offend all: It is the Priviledge of the Triumphant Church to be without Sin. This they stormed at, and yet could not tell how to deny it. Bishop Lany said, [That justified Persons have no Sin, and are no Sinners; because Iustification taketh it away]. But when I answered him by opening the Nature of Justification, and shewing that it took not away the Sin it self, but the Guilt, which is the Obligation to Punishment, he was confounded, and unsaid all again, and knew not what he said; I told him that he might see how near we came to him: I confessed that if the Controversy were but de Nomine, and he took Justification, as some do, for Sanctification, or a Change of our Qualities and Actions, then I granted him that it took away Sin it self, but not perfectly, and therefore Sin still remained. Here he and some more said, that no Man before me ever took Justification in any such Sence, and they laughed at me: I answered, that I was glad to hear him say so; for my fear that he symbolized with the Papists was abated, now I perceived that he knew not what they held: And Dr. Gunning answered against him, and said that the Papists do so use the Word. I went on and told him, That I also granted that a Man for a certainspace might he without any Act of Sin; end as I was proceeding, here Bishop Morley interrupted me, according to his manner, with vehemency crying out, what can any Man be for any time without Sin! And he founded out his Aggravations of this Doctrine; and then cryed to Dr. Bates, what say you Dr. Bates, is this your Opinion? Saith Dr. Bates, I believe that we are all Sinners; but I pray my Lord give him leave to speak: I began to go on to the rest of my Sentence, where I lest, to shew the Sense and Truth of my Words; and the Bishop (whether in Passion or Design I know not) interrupted me again, and mouthed out the odiousness of my Doctrine again and again, I attempted to speak, and still he interrupted me in the same manner: Upon that I sat down and told him, that this was neither agreeable to our Commission, nor the common Laws of Disputation, nor the Civil Usage of Men in common Converse, and that if he prohibited me to speak, I desired him to do it plainly, and I would …sist, and not by that way of interruption. He told me, I had speaking enough if that were good, for I spake more than any one in the Company: And thus he kept me so long from uttering the rest of my Sentence, that I sat down and gave over, and told him I took it for his Prohibition. p. 338At last I let him talk, and spake to those nearer me, which would hear me, and told them, that this was it that I was going to say, That I granted Bishop Lany, that it was possible to be free from acting Sin for a certain time, that so he might have no matter of Objection against me; and that the Instances of my Concession were these: 1. In the time of absolute Infancy. 2. In the time of total Fatuity or Madness, as natural Ideots that never had the use of Reason. 3. In the time of a Lethargy, Carus, or Apoplexy, or Epilepsie. 4. In the time of lawful sleep, when a Man doth not so much as dream amiss: And whether any other Instances might be given, I determined not. But as I talked thus; Bishop Morley went on, talking louder than I, and would neither hear me, nor willingly have had me to have been heard. Behind me at the lower end of the Table, stood Dr. Crowther, and he would consute me, and I defended Dr. Lany, in that Ieroboam made Israel to Sin: What gather you thence, quoth I, that they had no Sin but that, or never sumed before: He answered yes; and with a little Nonsence would defend it, that Israel sinned not till then: When I had proved the contrary to him in the general Acceptation of the Word [Sin;] I told him, that if he took the Word Figuratively, the Genus for a Species, I granted him that they sinned not that Species of Sin, which Ieroboam taught them, which is in the Text emphatically called Sin: If he meant that they sinned no Sin of Idolatry, or no National Sin till then, It was not true, and if it were, it was nothing to our Question, which was about Sin in the General, or indefinitely. He told me they Sinned no National Sin till then. I asked him whether the Idolatry, the Unbelief, the Murmuring, &c. by which all the Nation, save Caleb and Ioshua, fell in the Wilderness, and the Idolatry for which in the time of the Judges the Nation was conquered, and captivated, were none of them National Sins? I give the Reader the Instance if this Odious kind of Talk, to shew him what kind of Men we talkt with, and what a kind of Task we had.

§ 196. And a little further touch of it I shall give you: When I beg'd their Compassion on the Souls of their Brethren, and that they would not unnecessarily cast so many out of the Ministry and their Communion: Bishop Cosins told me that we threatned them with Numbers, and for his part, he thought the King should do well to make us name them all. A charitable and wise Motion! To name all the Thousands of England that dissented from them, and that had sworn the Covenant, and whom they would after Persecute.

§ 197. When I read in the Preface to our Exceptions against the Liturgy [That after twenty years Calamity, they would not yield to that which several Bishops voluntarily offered twenty Years before] (meaning the Corrections of the Liturgy offered by Archbishop Usher, Archbishop Williams, Bishop Morton, Dr. Prideaux, and many others); Bishop Cosins, answered me, That we threatned them with a new War, and it was time for the King to look to us: I had no shelter from the Fury of the Bishop but to name Dr. Hammond; and tell him that I remembred Dr. Hammond insisted on the same Argument, that twenty Years Calamity should have taught Men more Charity, and brought them to repentance and Brotherly Love; and that it is an Aggravation of their Sin to be unmerciful after so long and heavy Warnings from God's Hand: He told me, if that were our meaning, it was all well. And these were the most logical Discourses of that Bishop.

§ 198. Among all the Bishops there was none who had so promising a Face as Dr. Sterne the Bishop of Carlisle: He look'd so honestly, and gravely, and soberly, that I scarce thought such a Face could have deceived me; and when I was intreating them not to cast out so many of their Brethren through the Nation, as scrupeled a Ceremony which they confess'd indifferent, he turn'd to the rest of the Reverend Bishops, and noted me for saying [in the Nation:] He will not say [in the Kingdom] saith he, lest he own a King]. This was all that ever I heard that worthy Prelate say: But with grief I told him, that half the Charity which became so grave a Bishop, might have sufficed to have helpt him to a better Exposition of the Word [Nation]; from the Mouths of such who have to lately taken the Oaths of, Allegiance and Supremacy, and sworn Fidelity to the King as his Chaplains, and had such Testimonies from him as we have had: and that our case was sad, if we could plead by the King's Commission for Accommodation, upon no no better Terms, than to be noted as Traytors, every time we used such a Word as the [Nation]; which all monarchical Writers use.

p. 339§ 199. Bishop Morley earnestly pleaded my own Book with me (my fifth Disput.) as he had done before the King: And I still told him, I went not from any thing in it. He vehemently aggravated the mischiefs of Conceived Prayer in the Church, and when I told him that all the Action of Men would be imperfect, while Men were imperfect, and that the other side also had its inconveniences; he asked me whether I thought the inconveniences of Extemporary Prayer were not rather to be avoided, than those of imposed Forms: I told him that we should do our best to avoid the evils or abuse of both: He asked me, how that should be? I answered him, not by disclaiming the use of Forms, or of conceived Prayer, but using both in their proper seasons And as I was going on, the Company fell into a laughter at me, as if I had spoken for some foolish thing, when I spoke but for that which the Ministers of England have used ever since the Reformation; and most that have any Zeal do use by their allowance to this day, praying Extempore in the Pulpit.

§ 200. I oft made it my earnest request to them, but that we might have our proper turns in speaking, and that we might not interrupt one another, but stay the end: but I could never prevail, especially with Bishop Morley; who, when any thing was spoken which he would not have to be spoken out, would presently interrupt me, and go on in his way. I told them that if they took this Course, I judged all our Conference fruitless to the hearers: for my Speeches were not incoherent, but the end and middle must be joyned to the beginning to make up the sence, and that as the End is first in the intention, but last in execution, so I usually reserved the chief part of what I had to say to the last, to which the beginning was but preparatory: And therefore I had rather they forbad me to speak any more… than let me begin, and then not suffer me to go on any further. The Bishop answered that I spake so long, and had so many things, that their memories could not retain them all, and should lose the first if they stayed till the last: and that I spake more than any other: I told him, that as to my speaking more than others, it was my duty, yea to speak as much as all the rest, except when my Brethren saved me that labour. If they thought I spake too much, they would tell me so: And for others, one side was to speak as oft as the other side: If we had consented that they should fill the room, when we were but Three, and then every one in the Room should speak as much as one of us, we had made a fair bout of it. I cared not how many of them spake, if they were but willing to be answered: But if five of them must speak, and but one of them be answered, they would say that all the rest were unanswerable. And for my length, I told him, that we consented that one of themselves should be always in the Chair, as they had been; and whenever the Chair-man interrupted me, and told me I had spoken long enough, I was willing to be silent (but that was never done): or let us turn the Quarter-Glass, and see that one speak no longer than the other: And for the weakness of their memories, I supposed they were on equal Terms: It was as hard for us to remember what they said; and if we could not, we would either take Notes, or ask another, or pass by what we forgot, rather than overthrow all Order in Discourse, and speak in Confusion like People in a Fair. And for my part, I thought, that a continued Speech without vain words doth best spare time, seeing that when I may thus set all the parts of my sence together (when the broken parcels signifie nothing) I can better make known my meaning in a Speech of half a quarter of an hour, than in two days rambling Discourses, where Interruptions and Interlocutions toss us up and down from thing to thing, and never let us see the sence and reason of each others in that Connexion and Harmony which is its Light and Strength]. But all these words were cast away; and they had seldom Patience to forbear an Interruption.

§ 201. One learned Doctor behind me (that was no Commissioner) desired to be heard, as if he had some unanswerable Argument: And it was a Question, Whether all that scrupled Conformity, whom we pleaded for, were not such as had been against the King? I answered him, 1. That the King himself had given sufficient Testimony of many of them. 2. That there is not one Minister of twenty that we plead for that had ever any thing to do in the Wars, or against the King; most of them being then Boys at School, or in the University. 3. That Men on both sides had been against the King. Hereupon Bishop Morley asked me, whether ever I knew a conformable Man for the Parliament, against the King: Yes, my Lord, quoth I, many a one. Name one, quoth some of them: Yes, a Bishop, yea an Archbishop, quoth I: At which they all hearkened as at a wonder; Do you not know, quoth I, that the Archbishop of York, Dr. Williams, sometime Lord Keeper p. 340of England, was a Commander of the Forces for the Parliament in Wales? At which they were silent, and that Argument was at an end.

§ 202. When I told them that if they cast out all the Non-conformits, there would not be tolerable Ministers enow to supply the Congregations: Bishop Morley answered that so it was in the late Times, and that some Places had no Ministers at all, through all those Times of Usurpation: and named Aylesbury, upon enquiry of the Inhabitants since, I understand that it is no such thing; but that Aylesbury was well supplied, either by a setled Incumbent, or the Preacher of the Garisonwhich he knew to have had none upon his own knowledge. I told him that I never knew any such, and therefore I knew there were not many such in England: And if it were so, I hoped that he would not plead for such a Mischief by the Example of the Usurpers. But since, I have enquired of the Inhabitants about Aylesbury, and they unamously professed that it was notoriously false, and named me the Ministers that had been there successively, and usually two at once.

§ 203. Also the said Bishop, when I talkt of silencing Ministers for things indifferent, told me, That we should remember how we did by them; and that we talkt not then as now we do. I answered him, That I was confident there was no Man there present that had ever a hand in silencing any of them: For my own parts, I had been in Judgment for casting out the utterly Insufficient and notoriously Scandalous, indifferently of what Opinion or Side foever; but I had publickly written against the silencing or displacing any worthy Man for being against the Parliament: And if it had been otherwise, he should take warning by others Faults, and not imitate them, and do evil because Cromwell did so.

§ 204. Upon this, Dr. Walton Bishop of Chester said, Indeed Mr. Baxter did write against the Casting of us out: But, Mr. Baxter, did not you say, That if our Churches had no more than bare Liberty, as others had, without the compulsion of the Sword, that none but Drunkards would joyn in them. I answered, No, my Lord, I did not: I only said, that (as they had been ordered) if they had but equal liberty for Volunteers, they would be like Ale…houses, where many honest Men may come, but the number of worse Comers is so great, as maketh it dishonourable.] There is no impleading Mens Writings, unless the Book be opened, and the words and context well perused.

§ 205. Dr. Bates urged Dr. Gunning that on the fame reasons that they so imposed the Gross and Surplice, they might bring in Holy Water, and Lights, and abundance of such Ceremonies of Rome, which we have cast out. He answered, Yea, and so I think we ought to have more, and not fewer, if we do well, (or to that fence).

§ 206. They told us of the Antiquiry of Liturgies: And I earnestly intreated them to let true Antiquity be imitated by them: and desired any of them to prove that ever any Prince did impose one Form of Prayer or Liturgy, for Uniformity, on all the Churches in his Dominions: Yea, or upon any one Province, or Country under them: Or that ever any Council, Synod, or Patriarchs, or Metropolitans, did impose one Liturgy on all the Bishop and Churches under them. I proved to them not only from the instances of Basil, and the Church of Naeocesarea, but others, that every Bishop then chose what Forms he pleased for his own Church. They could deny none of all this: But Antiquity is nothing to them when it makes against them.

§ 207. Towards the end of our Meetings, Bishop Cosins, taking the Chair, told us, That a very worthy Person had offered unto his Superiours a Paper containing the way to our Reconciliation, which he thought so reasonable and sit, that he desired us to take them into our Consideration, and so delivered me the Paper. I asked him, from whom he expected an Answer: He said from me: I told him that he might well know that I would enter upon no new Debates, without the Consent of my Brethern present, and whether they would meddle in it, and undertake new Work without the Consent of our Brethern, who are absent, I could not tell; especially when long and wandering Discourses had already taken up almost all our time. But upon perusal of the Paper, I perceived that it was a cunning Snare for us; but advised our Brethern present that we might promise them an Answer by the next Morning, but only in the name of us three, and that our Brethern absent should not be judged to be concerned in it. This I the rather did, because I perceived it came by the notice of some above us, who would enquire after it, and that an Answer in Writing would be a better spending of our time, than that rambling Discourse which there we spent it in; where a multitude of Men would needs speak, and yet would be angry if they were answered. The Paper with the Answer is as follows.

p. 341The Paper offered by Bishop Cosins as from some considerable Person.

A way humbly proposed to end that unhappy Controversie which is now managed in the Church, that the Sore may no longer rankle under the Debate, nor Advantages be got by those that love Division.

1. THat the Question may be put to the Managers of the Division, Whether there be any thing in the Doctrine, or Discipline, or the Common Prayer, or Ceremonies, contrary to the Word of God; and if they can make any such appear, let them be satisfied.

2. If not, let them then propose what they desire in point of Expediency, and acknowledge it to be no more.

3. Let that then be received from them, and speedily taken into the Consideration and Iudgment of the Convocation, who are the proper and authentick Representatives of the Ministry, in whose Iudgment they ought to acquiesce in such Matters; and not only so, but to let the People that follow them know that they ought not to disturb the Peace of the Church under the pretence of the Prosecution of Expediency, since the Division of the Church is the great Inexpedient.