A Survey of Dialogical Discourses, Survey 7
A Suruey of the Seauenth Dialogue.
In this Dialogue of common experience, Whether Actuall Poſſeſſion of Spirits may b… or no, I expected ſome proo…e that the poſſeſſions mentioned by Tertullian, Cyprian, Chryſoſtome, and ſo till our owne times, were all but counterfeyt, and therefore no reaſon to thinke any other of Som…ers at Nottingham. But as Apothecaryes boxes carry titles of A…oes, Styrax, Benjoin, and within hauehave nothing but black leade, copporas, Ockar, and ſuch traſh: ſo heere we hauehave a title of common experienc…, without any experience at all, not any one approued example once ſifted and conuicted. Yet to examine ſuch as you bring: Firſt you will proue Actuall Poſſeſſion cannot be, becauſe as great or greater workes are done by nature, Art, page: 202.& Sickneſſe. Surely this cannon makes a foule battery, not onelyonly ouerthrowing this poſſeſſion at N…ttingham, but all other elſwhere in the world, yea thoſe that are mentioned in the ſcripture. It behooues vsus therefore to fortefy what we can againſt ſo daungerous a ſhot, or elſe all is like to goe to ruine. What then are the workes of nature? Diuers are reckoned out of Pliny, Strabo, and others, whereby you would conclude, that if the boy at Ma…gnitton had breathed out flames of fier, it had bene no worke of actuall poſſeſſion, becauſe Aetna doth ſo: If he had bene able to draw yron vntounto him, in ſomuch that if your ſelues had come in place, becauſe your faces are of this mettall you ſhould hauehave ſowled foreheads with him: yet this had bene no wonder, becauſe the Magnes doth ſo: If by his imbracing one A. Walk…r he ſhould ſo violently hauehave detayned him, that he could not poſſibly make one ſtep forward towards Ireland, this had bene no maruaile at all, becauſe the little fiſh Ech…cis is able to ſtay a ſhip of great burthen neuer ſo fleete vnderunder ſayle. VVhy, you Diſcourſers, things are not maruelous, except to the ignorant, whē they worke according to kinde: but when they goe beyond their naturall abillity, though the actions be not comparable to others in nature, they are wonderfull. It is no ſtrange thing for the Sunne to lighten the whole oppoſite face of the earth, and yet if Moſes face ſhine, the people are afraid.page 205: Aug … …ui. … 24, ca …3 You remember out of Augustine other workes of nature very ſtrange done by men. But what of them I pray you? Were Somers actions alſo naturall? Naturall actions ſhew themſelues from the cradle, to the graue: whereas Somers before the time of his firſt vexation by Sathan could neuer doe any of thē. But you will ſay, that which is done naturally by one, by art and practiſe may be done by an other. It would be hard for you to proue that thoſe workes which Auguſtine mentioneth, could be imitated by any art. though I confeſſe ſtrange things may be done by coſening and practiſe,Euſeb: de pr. Euang. lib. 4: caP: 1 Chry. ad popul: Antioch. hom: 20 as Euſebius and Chriſoſtome doe both teach: notwithſtanding they both acknowledg Actuall poſſeſſion, which eaſely may be diſcerned from artificiall workinges. for in theſe be teachers, long exerciſe, ſome end of glory or gaine, with diuers other circumſtances, whereas the poſſeſſed reſpect neither profit nor credit, but fall into ſtrange paſſions in a moment without ſchoolemaiſters, or any former exerciſe. The Phariſes were wiſer then to vſe this ſilly ſhift to diſcredit our Sauiour his miracles by: which was ready at hand, if it had bene of any force. Further ſay you, ſtanger actions often ariſe from meere naturall diſeaſes. pag, 206.It is true, but becauſe you ſhew not theſe things in Somers to hauehave proceeded from naturall diſeaſe, you abuſe your Reader with idle wordes. It might be apparant to you they came not from diſeaſe, for that he was deliuered from his vexation in a moment, without any ordinary meanes of phiſick, as likewiſe Darling of Burton was, and the ſeauen in Lancaſhire. Moreouer, if their ſtrange effects came from ſome naturall diſeaſe, then did they not counterfeyt. If they counterfeited, then had they no diſeaſe, but were in good health I truſt. Reconcile thes togither I pray you: and if you will contend ſtill for counterfeiting, giuegive ouer your prating of naturall diſeaſes for ſhame.
Secondly you reaſon from the naturall power of the Diuel, that he cannot effect ſuch things as are reported to be done by Somers, & therefore there was no actuall poſſeſſion. And wherefore coulde he not effect ſuch things?page, 208, Becauſe ſay you the diuel cannot doe workes vnpoſſible in nature. Heere we muſt demaund of you what you meane by workes impoſſible in nature: whether impoſſible to the nature of a diuell, and nature generally, or impoſſible to the nature of the man, in whome he worketh. In the former ſence, we know the Diuell hath a reſtraint:Marke 5, 4 in the ſecond, he may inable a man to breake chaynes, which by his owne naturall ſtrength he cannot poſſibly doe, & that is as vnpoſſible to be done by man, as any of the things we report by Somers. Now whether of theſe two meanings doe you follow? forſooth both: In the Maior the firſt, and in the Minor the ſecond. Therefore I anſwer you, becauſe you ſhoote in a bow with two ſtrings, I will ſtand out of your way, as moſt perrilous archers, able to kill the man in the moone. Againe, ſay you, in all ſound Diuinity there is an impoſſibillity of ſuch actio…s, b…cauſe the Diuel is no Creat…r of ſubſtances, no tranſf…rm…r of natures, no worker of miracles. If you would hauehave diſtinguiſhed your tearmes, and then hauehave ſpēt ſome wordes to make plaine, that in theſe actions there was ſuch a creati…n, ſuch a tranſformation, ſuch a miraculous working, as coulde not be incident to the power of the diuel, I would hauehave ſhaped you an anſwer if I could: but becauſe you make a confuſed noyſe, as if you were ringing of bees, you ſhall ſwarme them vponupon what bough you will for all me. Nay but ſay you, if the diuel did ſuch things once; page 209.he can d…e them againe. It may be he can, and would too, if he were at any mans commaund like an ape to ſhew tricks. It may be alſo that ſomtimes he doth them, though all the world heare not therof. That which you bring of his being too weake an Agent, pag: 210for that he is not Omnipote…t, as if an Omnipotencie were required in theſe actions, is miſerable beggery, ſtill crauing that which will not be graunted you. If you will not be anſwered, you would like importunate beggars be ſet in the ſtocks.pag: 211 Touching the apt…eſſe you deny to be in the yo…g man at Mahgnitton to thoſe ſupernaturall actions, I anſwer, There is little aptneſſe in a ſtone, or in a man to fly aloft in the …er, yet violence doth make them doe that, vntounto which they be not naturally fit. But what are thoſe actions which could not and hauehave not bene wrought by ſpirits in mens bodies? HaueHave you forgotten how you would make vsus beleue, that greater workes then any was done in Somers, are vſually done by nature, by art, by ſicknes? Are mens bodies not capable of ſuch workes of Sathan, as practiſe, diſeaſe, or nature effecteth in them? For your application of matter & forme we hauehave ſpoken ſufficiently in the queſtion of aſſuming bodies. Surely your faculty in logick is exceeding great, which contrary to the iudgment of ſence in proper obiects, and other things requiſite rightly diſpoſed, will force reaſon to a Non plus. O that you had liued in thoſe daies, when they diſputed whether Snow is white. No doubt by your good helpe the Academicks had preuailed,pag, 211. & 212. whatſoeuer ſence ſaith. But ſtill you vrge the matter further by Divinity, Philoſophy, Phiſick, Law, Conſcience. If Divinity the Miſtres condēne theſe actions, you might wel hauehave ſpared the other fiue her handmaides. But you are like new wine tunned vp in veſſels, you muſt either vent, or burſt. What then ſaith Diuinity? working of miracles is ceaſed long ſince: But the things wrought in Somers by the diuell were miracles, or elſe you ſay vntruly. If you be ſuch vnreaſonable beggars, that no anſwer will ſerue you, you woulde be cudgelled from the dore. For the handmaids I will not talke with them: their Miſtreſſe hath receaued anſwer for all. Laſtly to auoyd needeleſſe ſpeach, I will not graunt you, neither ſhall you euer be able to wrīg from me, That diuels can bring to paſſe ſuch things at their pleaſure, o… if they wrought theſe actions in Somers, page, 213,that therefore they can ſtop the ordinary courſe of all other naturall actions, and ordinances appointed by God. You were ſick of a feuer, when you tyed theſe conſequences togither. The Diuels power is a limyted power. He can not touch one haire of our heades further then his commiſſion ſerueth him. Thus much for the diuels power.
page: 214.Thirdly you reaſon from the diſtribution of actions, & cauſes of right iudgment. If (ſay you) theſe actions in Somers were true actions, then were they either naturall, or not naturall: and then either againſt nature, or beſides nature, or aboue nature, to be diſcerned alſo by ſome rule of truth, which either nature affordeth (by inbred principles Theoricall, & practicall, or got by experience of ſence, of History, of Induction, or of our owne Tryall) or elſe at leaſt is ſupernaturally giuen vsus: but none of all theſe were to be ſeene in Somers actions, and therefore no true actions. I anſwer, there was to be ſene in him Actions againſt nature, as whē he went about to hang himſelfe, though you fondly imagine it was no ſuch action, becauſe it was not effected: there were actions in him beſides nature, when his face and mouth were monſtrouſly diſtorted, one lip towarde one eare, and the other towards the other: there were actions aboue nature, in his ſtrength, in his knowledg, in his ſundry paſſions, as of a lump about as big as an egge mouing along his legg, belly, throat, and other partes ſo that this portion of your proofe is patched vp altogither with vntruthes. Now for your rule of iudgment, pag 21….you affirme, theſe actions of Somers couldnot be iudged by any Theoricall and Practicall principles. Your reaſon is, becauſe Theoricall and Practicall principles be only naturall, and Somers actions were ſupernaturall. Surely this might be the reaſon alſo of meere Naturalls. As if Rectum is not Iudex ſui et obliqui. If naturall principles iudge what is accordinge to nature, the ſame principles ſhall alſo iudg what is aboue nature. Doe you thinke heathen Philoſophers were not able to diſcerne what worke was ſupernaturall? Was Ariſtotle a foole in writing Metaphiſicks? But what of Experience? It is not vniuerſall (ſay you) becauſe diuers amongſt you wher… the thing was done, page, 2…0.did not acknowledg ſuch experimented tryalls of an actuall poſſ…ſſion. Indeed the Phariſes if it could hauehave bene brought to paſſe, by no meanes would hauehave had the blinde mans eyes opened by our Sauiour Chriſt. And in Nottingham it was apparant that Papiſme, prophane life, & anger for hauing ſome of their frendes touched, cauſed ſome to oppoſe themſelues. Then for the ſeuerall degrees of experience, It could not (ſay you) be determined by ſence, becauſe the obiests of ſence were deceaueable. I anſwer, you ſay vntruly: The obiects of ſence were true obiects. For ſence apprehendeth but the outward appearance, which ſemblance is true, though the inward ſubſtance be not that, which outward likeneſſe ſheweth to be. Hath not the Lord ſet his bow in the clowdes, though it be but an appearance onelyonly to ſence through the repercuſſion of the ſunne beames, in a ſubiect fitly diſpoſed, and that there is no ſuch thing exiſting really indeede. Doe not ſpirits appeare to men, though the bodyes they ſeeme to hauehave, oft be no true bodies, but onelyonly carry the ſimilitude and image of them? your other partes of experience be ydle, for Hiſtory and Induction could hauehave no place in one preſent Individuum, and Triall which conſiſteth in proofe of action, might happely be in Somers himſelfe, but not in the behoulders. Theſe actions then hauehave ſtore of naturall proofe, howſoeuer your eyes dimmed through enuy or couetouſnes and deſire of preferment, cannot behould it.
After you come to your Supernaturall rule, from whence you would conclude, There is at this day no actuall poſſeſſion, page. 223. Acts: 20.27.becauſe S. Paul hauing ſhewed the Epheſians the whole counſaile of God, giues neither Canon nor Counſell of Actuall Poſſeſſions. It is vntrue that you ſay. For as in viſiting of the ſick, and diuers other ſuch chriſtian duties, there is nothing expreſly ſet downe, but is onelyonly to be gathered by implication & ſound deduction, ſo likewiſe in this of p…ſſeſſion: Concerning which he hath generally admoniſhed vsus,Ephe. 6:11 To put on the whole armour of God. In which wordes be comprehendeth all vexation of Sathan whatſoeuer, and ſheweth alſo in the words following the remedy. Except you can make good vntounto vsus, that poſſeſſion is none of the Engines to ouerthrow man withall. VVhereas you require ſome precept of this matter to Timotheus & Titus, you are to vnderſtand that the ordinary guift is not peculiar to the Miniſter, but common to all beleeuers. And therefore no maruaile if there be no speciall precept of this, more then of viſiting the ſycke, redeming captiues, releeuing decayed perſons, and ſuch like: in which duties all Chriſtians hauehave intereſt, and not onelyonly the Miniſters. Againe you ſay, that if perpetuity of Actuall poſſeſſion be either expreſly, or implicatiuely conteyned in the word, then alſo the miraculrous faith is either expreſly or implicatiuely conteyned in the word: page, 225:which is ſtark falſe, as you and your fellowes hauehave bene tould an hundred times, conſidering miraculous faith is not neceſſarily required for diſpoſſeſſion, as (God willing) ſhall be ſhewed more at …arge in the ninth dialogue. Thus then hauehave theſe men reaſoned againſt experience, and hauehave afforded vsus three generall arguments to diſproue all Poſſeſſions by, & as well all as that of Nottingham.
But ſeeing they hauehave talked to no purpoſe of Experience, I will in one word commend to the Chriſtian Reader theſe Experiences following,doctrine pag 28. Inter Ep. Cypria. Ep: 75 beeſides thoſe mentioned in the Doctrine, for his better ſatiſfaction in this point. And firſt of the poſſeſſed woman of whōe Firmitianus doth treat at large in his Epiſtle to Cyprian: an exāple out of the compaſſe of that time, wherwith theſe Diſcourſers would bound all Actuall poſſeſſion. But what nee…e I ſtand vponupon former times? If poſſeſſion be apparant in theſe our daies, it muſt needes be that neither hath it ceaſed in ages paſt. To come then to our own times, & with one buſh to ſtop two gapp… ▪ Examples we hauehave In our owne country, aa in Margaret H rriſon of Burnham Vlpe within the county of Norfolk, in Kath. Wright, in M. Throckmortons children Th. Darling of Burton, the …eauen in Lancaſhire, I…ne I…rden the ſeruant of Symon Fox of Shadbrook in Suffolk, whoſe cauſe was hearde before the Right Ho: the L. Cheif Iustice of England at S. Edmonde bury the 12. of Iuly 1599. Ioane Nayler as was proued before the Right Ho: the L. Anderſon Novem. 30 the ſame yeare. Suſan B…yton of Saffron Walden in Eſſex, as is plaine by the euidence giuen againſt Alice Bentley at the Quarter Seſſions holden at the aforeſaid Walden the 13. day of April 1602. which Suſan was lately diſpoſſeſſed, the meanes being ved which God hath to that end appointed. Alſo in Tho. Hariſon of North Wych in Cheſ ſhire, & in Clemens Charles a maid of Woolroytch commōly called Wullage in Kent: both which be at this preſent very greuouſly vexed by Sathan, ſo as he that will may be an eye witneſſe thereof.Gallobelg. lib: 11: Out of our owne countrey, as at Spandaw a towne ſixe miles from Brandenburgh in Germany in the …eare (as I take it) 1594. the diuel did walke viſibly, and poſſeſſed more then twenty men, uexing them in miſerable ſort. Yea he ſcattered in the publike ſtreetes mony, boxes, golde & ſiluer buttons, and ſuch like: and he that gathered any of theſe things was preſently vexed by the diuel. Wherevpon it was forbidden both in the ſchooles & churches, that none ſhould take vp any ſuch ſcattered things. The like were done by wicked ſpirits at Berlin in the ſame Marqueſhip of Brandenburgh: And at Fridberge a towne of the new Marchia, there were more then an hundreth and fifty men, of either lex, condition, & age, which were poſſeſſed with wicked ſpirits. Theſe things are teſtified by D. Iames Coler Provost in Berlin, and M. Robert Coler, and M. Iames Pret…r Paſtors of the Church in Spandavia. To whoſe Narration Balthaſar Weſtphalus, and Iohn Muller Conſuls of Spandaw hauehave ſubſcribed.de Abdit: …er: cauſ. lib: 2 ca. 16: Iohn Fernelius aman worthy to be credited for his famous learning, place, and deſerued authority, throughout all Chriſtendome: reporteth of two poſſeſſed, one taken in the night, when as by occaſion of immoderate thirſt he riſing out of his ſleepe, and finding no drinke, bit of an apple that he hit on by chance, wherewit… preſently he perceaued his iawes to be ſhut, & as it were ſtrangled with ones hand, & with all, he being now poſſeſſed of a diuel entring into him, did ſeeme to behould himſelfe in the dark to be deuoured by a mighty black dog which things ſaith he, afterwards when he was reſtored to his perfect minde, he reported to vsus in order. The other was a Knight his ſonne, taken in ſuch ſort, that ſometimes his left arme, ſometimes his right, ſometimes one finger, one whiles one thigh, one other…hile both, ſometimes the whole body was greuouſly vexed: which torment paſſed with ſo great ſwiftnes, & ſhaked him ſo vehement …, that hardl… foure ſeruants could hould him in his bed. The moſt ſkilfull phiſitions iudged it a conuulſion, hauing next affinity with the Epilepſ…, and ſo accordingly directed their practiſe, but without an… ſucceſſe at all. The reaſon was (ſaith he) for that we were all deceaued in the true iudgment of the Cauſe. For in the third monethmonth a wicked ſpirit was found to be the author of all the euil, bewraying himſelfe by a voice, and vnwonted words & ſentences both Latine and Greeke, although the ſick party was ignorant of the Greeke tongue. He diſcouered many ſecrets of them that ſate b…, and eſpecially of the Phiſitions, laughing that he had deceaued them in a matter of ſo great perrill, and that they had almoſt killed that poore body with their vnprofitable medecynes. Theſe examples alleadged giuegive vsus euident proofe of poſſeſſions in theſe daies. Now let the Reader chooſe whether he will beleeue theſe teſtimonies and experiences, or the vnſauory and vnlearned diſputations of theſe Diſcourſers.
pag: 22.….Hitherto of Poſſeſſion, now they turne themſelues to Obſeſſion, vnſkilfully oppoſed, as hath bene partly ſhewed, to Poſſeſſion. For they which treat of theſe matters vſe theſe wordes indifferently. Cyprian ſaith, And by the torments of wordes they are caſt forth of Obſeſſed bodyes. So Fernelius in the place before cited, And withall he being now obſeſſed by the diuel entring into him. Cyprr. ad Demetri. De oper. lib. 4. cap. 10.Likewiſe Zanchius (as before we heare) ſpeaking of diuels ſubſtantially entring into bodyes, calles it by the name of being Obſeſſed by diuels. And indeede Obſidere doth not onelyonly ſignifie to beſeige, and to compaſſe about, but alſo Tene…e, Occupare, Opprimere, to Hold, Poſſ…ſſe, & Oppreſſ…, as when Tully ſaith, Cum is qui audit ab Oratore jam obſeſſus est ac tenetur: When the bearer is now p…ſſ…ſſed and held by the Oratour. And it ſemeth that writers rather vſe the word Obſeſſed then Poſſeſſed partly for cōfort of the afflicted, teaching them they are not abſolutely in the diuels power, howſoeuer he thus furiouſly rageth in their bodies, but rather that he now ſeeketh to vanquiſh them, then that without all hope they be vanquiſhed already: partly alſo for the better ſound. Theſe Diſcourſers in a priuate vnderſtanding make Obſ…ſſion nothīg elſe but an outward aſſault of Sathan, which onelyonly power they leaue vntounto him now. And where it is obiected, This doth open a dore to Athieſme, they returne this imputation very wiſely vponupon the doctrine of poſſeſſion: as if to teach both inward and outward vexation were a doctrine of more ſecurity, then theirs of outward temptatiō onelyonly. It had wont to be an old ſaid ſaw in Geomitry, the part is l…ſſe then the whole: but theſe men will refine all Artes, & teach vsus a new, That the parte is more then the whole. And ſo let this memorable Axiome ſhut vp this dialogue.