A Survey of Dialogical Discourses, Survey 6
A Suruey of th… Sixt Dialogue.
page 166.The ſixt Dialogue handleth Actuall poſſ ſſion, which they deſcribe to be an extraordinary affliction, vexation, or to…ment, that Sathan doth effectiuely inflict v…on m…n f…r a time. And this actuall affliction and to…ment very vnf…ifully they oppoſe to that is generally called poſſ…ſſ…n. Whereas whoſoeuer is poſſeſſed according to that we define poſſeſſion, the ſame i… actually, & eff…ctiu ly (as they ſpea…) afflicted, vexed, or torm…nted by Sathan. Where therefore either the ſpirit of god in the ſacred Scriptures ſpeaking of Demon…acks mentioneth only their vexation by the ſpirit,M…th. 15.2…. Act… ….…: or any learned writer, that maketh not at all againſt vsus, or for you, as you very …illily pretend. The queſtion and controuerſy is, (whereof we hauehave ſpoken alred…) whether the diuel thus v…xing a Demoniack, be within him (definitiuely) as we affirme: or without him, as you auouch: and not whether Demoniacks be eff…ctiuely vexed by Sathan wh…ch v…xati…n you oppoſing to that we call p…ſſ ſſi n, ſee pag 38 3…, & …3.and by it going about to diſproue reall poſſeſſi…n, doe therein like vntounto him, that ſhould deny a man to hauehave a ſoule, becauſe he hath a body: and that by prouing he hath a body, will proue that he hath no ſoule. There be 2. parts of poſſeſſion. 1. The diuel his inherencie in the body of man. 2. the diuel his vexing of that bodie.
This p…ſſ…ſſion of diu…ls y…u acknowledging to hauehave b…ne in the daies of Chriſt: pag. 168.doe flatly deny any further continuance thereof now, in t…is time of the goſpell.In the doctrine, pag. 27, 28. Doctrine pag 31:
The contrary herevnto, to wit, the perpetuity of poſſeſſion, I hauehave heretofore proued by Scripture, & by reaſon, & nāely thus.
All the diſeaſes that ſinne made the body of man ſubiect vntounto, doe or may remaine ſo long as ſinne remaineth in man:
But poſſeſſion is a diſeaſe that ſinne made the body of man ſubiect vntounto.
Therefore poſſeſſion doth or may remaine ſo long as ſinne remaineth in man. And ſo at this day nay, vntil the end of the world.
This argument hath as yet receiued no anſwer from you,pag 174, nor I truſt neuer ſhall. Inſtead thereof you hauehave fathered as abſurd an argument vponupon me, as euer I read: ſending the Reader to the 31. page of the Doctrine, to ſecure him it is mine: and therevnto forſooth hauehave you returned an anſwer. A very eaſie matter: euen as it is for one in ſtraits to helpe himſelfe with a lye. If at once (Gentle Reader) thou wouldeſt ſee cleerely as in a glaſſe, how corruptly theſe men deale with my poore writings, & ſhamefully abuſe both thee, and me, but moſt of all themſelues then cōpare pages 174, 175. of their Dialogicall Diſcourſes, with the 31. of the Doctrine.
But for the further purſuite and enlarging of the aforeſaide argument, we are to vnderſtand that all puniſhment due to the breach of god his law, is ſo long perpetuall, as the breach of gods law doth continew. Curſed is eueryevery one which abideth not in all things which are written in the booke of the law, to doe them. Galat. 3:10This ſentence is perpetually true to the ende of the world. And albeit they which hauehave put on Chriſt, and be dead and riſen againe with him, are freed from this curſe, yet all that be called, be not choſen: nor eueryevery one that ſaith Lord, Lord, ſhall hauehave him to beare their burthen, but ſhall feele the waight of their owne tranſgreſſions. Beeſides the faithfull are not exempted from the temporall chaſticement. Neither are the written plagues only the ſtipend of ſinne, but all other euils whatſoeuer not mentioned, are ſcourges prepared of the Lord for ſinners. If thou wilt not keepe and doe all the words of this Law, the Lord will bring vponupon thee eueryevery ſicknes, Deut. 28.58, 61and euerie plague which is not written in the booke of this law. And that poſſeſſion is a curſe or plague of god, it needeth no proofe. Yea a greuous one it is, that he which was framed the temple of the holy ſpirit, ſhoulde become a moſt horrible Caue and Denne of Sathan. From hence it muſt needes follow, that poſſeſſion muſt hauehave a perpetuall beinge in the world, ſo long as men ſhall continue diſobedient to god his moſt holy commaundements. Moreouer, howſoeuer Sathans kingdome is aboliſhed for the behalf of the elect, yet in reſpect of the wicked he is a god of this world, 2 Cor. 4.4 Ephe. 2, 2: Ep… 6, 12a prince of the aer, & a principallity, a power, a worldly gouernour of the darkneſſe of this world. Doth the ſcriptures giuegive him theſe titles as if he was a god without a people, a king without a kingdome a principallity without all ſway and authority in his ſubiects? Therefore except you can ſhew vsus, that none of the wicked now a daies be of ſathans kingdome or that he doth rule his kingdome without tiranny, or that his tyranny hath not wayting vponupon it poſſeſſion, or that poſſeſſion is now no puniſhment or chaſticement for ſinne: you ſhall deſerue that as youre booke goes now abroad vnderunder priuiledg, ſo hereafter your ſelues ſhould hauehave a priuiledg for euer ſetting forth any more bokes.
As the perpetuity of poſſ ſſi…n is and hath bene proued by the holy ſcriptures, and by reaſon, ſo accordingly there hauehave bene Demoniacks from Chriſts time in the ſucceſſiue ages vntil this day. That ſuch there were for the ſpace of 13. hundred yeares from Chriſt, appeareth by the eccleſiaſticall hiſtories called the Centuaries, as witneſſeth Cent. 2. pag. 110. Cent. 3. pag. 136. Cent. 4. pag. 439 440 Cent. 5. pag. 684 685. Cent. 6 pag. 341. Cent. 7. 158. 159. Cent. 8. 341. et 375. Cent. 9. 265. Cent. 10. 320. et. 337. Cent. 11 286 et 310. Cent. 12. 909. 910. et 932. Cent. 13. 631. This perpetuity is further confirmed by the teſtimonie and iudgment of theſe writers following: who for the moſt part make mention of Demoniacks in their times.Apol. 1, Pag: 146. Iustine Martyr, ſaith, that the chriſtiās ouer all the world healed very many that were p ſſeſſed with euil spirits: which other inchaunters, In Apolog.coniurers, & ſacrificers could n…t performe: & as yet (ſaith he) thoſe m…n of ours proceede in their purpoſe. See alſo Iuſtine Martyr in Tryphone We are a cuſtomed (ſaith Tertullian) to aſſaile diuels & to driue them away from men. And againe: We driue out ill ſpirits with out reward or hire. See Tertullian in lib. de Corona militis. For breuity (eſpecially in ſo plaine a caſe) I will omit the other teſtimonies, & only name the ſeuerall writers with the booke and page. Cyprian ad Demetrianū tract. 1. et Sermone d… lapſis: et de Idolorum vanitate: et lib. 4. epiſtolarum, epistola 7. ad Magnū. Soz…m. lib. 4. cap. 16. Idem lib. 6. cap. 28. Canon. 90 Theodoret lib. 4, cap. 21. Chriſoſtome in Tom. 5. de i… comprehenſibili dei natura, hom. 4. Auguſtine lib 8. de ciuitate dei. cap. 26, …uſeb…us Caeſarienſis lib. 6. cap. 43. Bullinger in Math. 8.28. Pet. Martyr loc. com. Seſſ. 4. Cap. 9. Sect. 16: Chytreus in Math. 8.28. Hunnius in Math. 17.15. Philip Melan…thon lib. Epiſtolarum. Chemnicius de Sacramento Ordinis. Beza hom. 26. in hiſtoriam paſſionis, aedit: 2. pag. 656. V…gellius in Theſauro Theologico. pag. 980. Danaeus in Marcū queſt 38. Chaſſanion loc. com. lib. 1. cap. 17. Piſcator in Math: 8.28. But what neede theſe teſtimonies ſpecially of the auncient writers, ſith the Diſcourſers themſelues acknowledg a generall conſent among the learned writers, as touching the continuance of poſſeſſion for about eight hundred yeares after Chriſt and that in theſe wordes. Howſoeuer Iuſtine, Tertullian, Cyprian, Auguſtine, the counſaile of Brachia, pag: 172.& eccleſ…aſti…all hiſtories doe all ioyntly auouch the continuance of p ſſ ſſ on in thoſe t m…s and places wherein they conuerſed: yet no one of them all doe challenge extraordinary power to diſp…ſſe Sathan. But all theſe (ſay our Diſcourſers) were deceaued, either by the cunning …f the counterfeit, or by miſtaking …me diſeaſe, not much vnlike poſſ ſſion, for p…ſſ…ſſion it ſelfe. Thus fell theſe good Fat…ers into a ſtrange imagination of ſome actuall poſſ…ſſion: there being indeede no ſuch thing at all. Is it not ſtrange that theſe two petty fellowes, that a…e eueryevery foote ſtumbling, and hauehave as many lyes almoſt in theire mouthes as they hauehave propoſitions, ſhould ſo boldly controule theſe famous Doctors, and writers of Eccleſiaſticall ſtorie, and condemne them as men ſimple, deceaued, and not able to di…cerne of this matter. It ſeemes your Priuiledg hath ſo inſpired you, that the certaine knowledg of theſe things is to be drawne only out of your breſts. Let vsus heare therefore the profound re… ſons which theſe great Clarkes hauehave, against poſſeſſion in theſe daies of the goſpell.The firſt argument againſt the perpetuitie of poſſeſſion: pag. 168. Anſ: 1.
The firſt is this G…d hath not avouched the perpetuity of poſſ…ſſion in any part of his word, therefore it was temporary, and no way perpetuall.
Your propoſition is falſe, For though it be not ſet down in expreſſe wordes: yet thence it is to be proued by neceſſary collection, as is euident by the premiſſes. Secondly, were it true: It maketh ſufficiently for the perpetuity of poſſeſſion, that by holy ſcripture it can be proued, that ſometimes there was poſſeſſion, and that were poſſeſſed: except ſome ſcripture may be ſhewed for the aboliſhing of it, Otherwiſe I ſay, it remayneth ſtill, ſo as it either is, or may be at this day.pag 170. A…gu: 2.
In the ſecond place you reaſon thus. If no extraordinary power or meanes for expelling of diuels remaineth perpetuall, then neyther poſſeſſion it ſelfe remaineth perpetuall: But the firſt (ſay you) is true, therf…re the ſecond.
Ans: 1. Math: 17.11 Mark: 9, 29The propoſition is falſe. Becauſe there was not only an extraordinary meanes for the expelling of diuels, which being temporary, ceaſed with miracles, but beſi…es an ordinary meanes particulerly & by name appointed for the diſpoſſeſſing of diuels, which remaineth vntil this day, and is perpetuall. Yea had we no ſuch particuler ordinance, yet notwithſtanding we might at this day hauehave remedy againſt this extraordinary euill. Call vponupon me, (ſaith God) in the day of trouble, & I will deliuer thee. Whatſoeuer you ſhall aſke my father (ſaith our Sauiour) in my name, that he will giuegive vntounto you. Pray alwaies, ſaith S. Paul. what? only in ordinary neceſſities? or elſe in extraordinary too, but yet without comfort of obtaining? hath the Lord bound himſelfe from all extraordinary viſitation till the ende of the world? Or if any vnwonted thing ſhall happen, is the church deſtitute of all remedy? Againe, we hauehave no extraordinary power remaining wherewith to cure palſyes, feauers, and other diſeaſes ſometimes ſo cured, and yet notwithſtanding the ſaid diſeaſes at this day remaine. And why may not as well this diſeaſe be now, notwithſtanding we hauehave no extraordinary power wherewith to heale it? who would vouchſafe to ſpend time with ſuch diſputers? Then to come to your ſecond propoſition, let vsus heare your profe. Becauſe ſay you extraordinary power of casting out diuels was peculiarlie appropriated to Christ & his owne Diſciples, which is a lowde vntruth,Mark 16, 17. vnderſtanding Diſciples as you doe, onelyonly for the Apoſtles. Doth not our Lord ſay, Theſe ſignes ſhall follow thoſe that beleeue? in my name, they ſhall caſt out diuels &c. Of whome ſpeaketh he this? Of his owne diſciples? Or of the ſeauentie? It is moſt manifeſt he ſpeaketh of thoſe which ſhould beleeue by their preaching. Wee ſtand not vponupon an extraordinary power for expelling of Sathan, & therefore I might well hauehave let this propoſition paſſe, but that I would let you ſee your not extraordinary but ordinary blindnes.
pag: 176 Arg. 3:But to let this paſſe, your third argument concludeth thus. Things in themſelues perpetually exiſting, hauehave in themſelues an ordinary & continuall working: But poſſeſſion of diuels (in theſe dayes of the goſpel) is in it ſelfe neither ordinary, nor continually working, & therefore in theſe daies there is no poſſ ſſion exiſting.
I anſwer that perpetuall exiſting is twofould: Naturall, and Poſitiue. Things naturall which hauehave an inſeperable operation accompanying them, ſo long as they hauehave an exiſting, muſt needes alſo hauehave a continuall working, as the fyer muſt needes heate, the water moyſten, &c. In this ſence I doe not ſay that poſſeſſion is perpetually exiſting, for then euermore ſome ſhould be poſſeſt, which is far from my thought: but that men now and hereafter euen to the worlds ende may be poſſeſſed, when and as oft as the Lord ſhall pleaſe in ſuch manner (that is with this kinde of correction) to chaſtice men: as appeareth by that here followeth. Things Poſitiue be ſuch as not by nature but by ordinance hauehave their power and efficacie. Of which ſort be Lawes and Conſtitutions, which once inacted hauehave preſently exiſting, yet notwithſtanding for want of Execution that ſleepeth perhaps vponupon diuers occaſions for many yeares, hauehave not their continuall working Now poſſeſſion being a puniſhment of ſinne, and an ordinance of God, is of the ſeconde kinde, wherein if one ſhall exa…t one vſuall courſe to be pra…tiſed eueryevery moment without ceaſing, it is as much as to preſcribe the Lord & appoint him when and how he ſhall inflict his iudgments. What was to hauehave a more perpetuall exiſting amongſt the people of t e Iewes then the religion of God in thoſe holy rites & ceremonies which himſelfe had giuen from heauen? Of what were they to expect a more conſtant and continuall ſucceſſion, then of their prophets,Deut. 18.15.16. the Lord hauing promiſed he would raiſ… them vp a prophet like to Moſes, in wh…ſe mouth he would put hi… w…rdes? yet we know what long interruption oft was made by the Idolatry of the people, the wickednes of t…eir kings, and at the laſt their deſerued captiuity. Inſomuch that the Prophet complayneth We ſee not our ſignes, there is not one Prophet m re, nor any with vsus that kn…weth h…w long. pſal. 74.9.Yea from Malachy til Iohn Bapt ſt, what long and deepe ſilence was the…e, as if the Lordes promiſes had beene fa len to the ground? So in the Chriſtian Church during all the raigne of Antichriſt, hath not the truth lyen hiddē in the wilderneſſe, as if it had bene vtterly extinct & departed from the earth? The Papiſts cry out vponupon vsus to ſhew the viſible tra…t of our Church, and you would helpe them with armour, if this might be graunted: That things perpetually ex…ſting by ordinance ſhould alſo hauehave a c…nti…uall working. I hope nothing ought to be more perpetuall then faith, …et our Sauiour demaundeth whether at his comming h… ſhall finde it on the earth. Luk. 18.….The ſecond propoſition alſo is worthely proued. For whereas you ſhould ſhew that poſſ…ſſi…n hath no rdinary working, …ou tell vsus. It is now adai…s ſo vnwont…d and ſo ra…e …n exp…rience, as very hardly it is heard of in twenty y…res ſpace.pag, 17….
Ad…it this, I hope if it be heard of in twenty …eares it is not a matter ſo ſtrange for the daies of the Goſpell, as …ou woulde make it. Neither is twenty yeares space ſuch a diſcontinuance, but that you might as well conclude the Leproſie, the Cancer, the Apoplexie, & ſ me other rare diſeaſes did all likewiſe determine with the Apoſtles time.
The fourth argument followeth. The manifeſtation of Chriſt his Deity, Arg. 4: pa… 179 & Ans 5 5.a … the confirmation of his glorious gospell, were the maine cauſes of poſſ ſſ …n in Chriſt his time: theſe cauſes being c aſed long ſince, how ſhould th… effect it ſelfe be ſtill continued?
Anſ, This obiection I hauehave already anſwered in the Doctrine pag. 30 31. 32 where I ſhew t…at except theſe two were the only …auſes of p…ſſ ſſ…on notw thſtanding the ceaſing of theſe cauſes, p ſſ…ſſ on may remayne, ſ… lo g as an other cauſe thereof …emayneth, to wit, ſinne. That theſe were n…t the ſole cauſes, you you ſelues d…i eſſe cōfeſſe, in calling them the main… cauſes, and the ma…n… e…s …f p…ſſ ſſ…on: & in affirming, that th… p…ſſ ſſion of diuels were eſpecially for th…ſe two endes. Indeede in your Anſwer page 67. (contradicting your ſelues) you ſay theſe were the two only end…s of …oſſ ſſ o…. But how prooue you that b… the Scriptures? Or who made …ou of counſaile with the Lord, that you doe ſo peremptorily and preciſely put downe theſe for the ſ…le cauſes of this iudgment? It is not poſſible t…at this which you thus preſumptuouſly affirme, Doctrine pag 31. 32:ſhould be true. Sith (as heretofore I hauehave declared) there were poſſeſſions before either the goſpel was preached vntounto the Gentiles, or the Lord manifeſted in the fleſh. Moreouer t…e ſine of Demoniacks, without which they could neuer hauehave bene vexed by …athan, was a cauſe of poſſeſſion, how then were the two aforeſaide, the onelyonly cauſes of poſſeſſion? To the former of theſe reaſons you anſwer, there were no p…ſſ ſſions at all (for a y l ng time eſpec ally before the cōming of Chr…ſt. Anſ. pag 68.A childiſh anſwer, ſ ing in m… ſaid reaſon I hauehave made the c…ntrarie euident. Inſteed of anſwering m… latter reaſon we hauehave a ſlaunder. You charge me to ſay, Anſ. pag: 56that …oſſ ſſ… n was esp cially and pu poſely inflicted vponupon men f…r ſinne▪ and this l… …f …our owne making you lab…r to ouerthrow. Whereas I onel… a firm that beſides the aforeſaid cauſes, ſinne wa… a cauſe, doctrine Pag 32w…ich is th c…uſ… of all iudgments, th u… … alwa…e… respect not tha… *…e…t after his owne g orie. page 179, Ioh. 12.31.principally bu… ſ… t…mes ſome … beſt kn…w … to hīſ ….
But cheifel… you groūd …he f nall determinatio… log ſince o Sathans power of p ſſ ſſiō, vpō a blind …nde…ſtādig of theſe words of t…e Goſpell. Now is the iudgmēt of this world: now ſhall the prince o… this world be caſt out Cōce ning which whē I conſi…er how many vaine wor…s & leaues be ſpēt, I call to minde the great paynes the Smith taketh in framing his Idolatrous Image How he workes in the coles, and faſhion, th…t with hammers, and worketh it with the ſtrength of his a…mes: Iſa: 44:12.yet he is an hungred, & his strength fayleth, he drinketh no water, & …s fame▪ For theſe Diſc…urſers hauing framed an Idole interpretation in their owne braines, weary themſelues to adorne it all that euer they may, though when they hauehave donne what they can it is nothing elſe but an abominable frenſie, I giuegive it no ha…er terme t…en it deſerues. For to come to the matter, …heſe not Ex…anours but Prophanours of God his truth would hauehave the caſting forth of the Prince of this world by the death of Chriſt, to be nothing elſe but a finall d…termination of Sathans actuall poſſ ſſion, that is, That the benefit of Chriſt his death ſhould onelyonly pertaine to Demoniacks, men extraordinarylie tormented with the diuel. For the fruite of deliuerance from Actua l poſſeſſion bel…n eth onelyonly to ſuch kinde of men But by theſe mens diuinity, The caſting forth …f the Prince of this worlde, is nothing elſe but a del ueranc from actuall poſſ ſſi…n, & ſo this benefit of Chriſt his death ſhall be appropriated to men extraordinarily vexed by Sathan. Are …our conſciences ſo ſeated that …ou could be content to ſpoyle Chriſtians of their cheifeſt comfort? But I neede not ſpend time in expoſtulating with you There is n…ne which loues the truth, but of himſelfe will eaſily acknowledg what ſuch deprauours deſerue. It ſhall be enough for me, leaſt any be deceiued by you, …o conuince your …alſhood Our Sauiour ſheweth by his owne expreſſe words, that the caſting forth of the Pri c… of this world, ſhould be the drawing of all nations vntounto him for ſo he ſpeaketh in the next verſe. And I, i… I wer… lift vp from the earth, ver: 3 2:will d aw all men vntounto me: which I hope is a more ample fruit of Sathans expulſion, then can be reſtra…ned onl… to men in vnwonted manner afflicted by him. Likewiſe the Grecia …s d ſi…e to ſ e…ur Sauiour, which occaſion did moue this ſpeach, doth ma…ifeſtl… declare th calli…g fo…th o… Sathan ſh…uld …e the admitti…g of the G…ntiles into the kingdom… of G…. This alſo was that which the voice from heauen pronounced, wherein the nam of God ſh uld h… glorified, and not the deliuerance of …me few ſpeciall men, from this one parte of …athans t…rannie. Beſides our Sauiou heere …elleth vsus that a …eſſion and a moſt ſollemne iu…gment ſhould be holden, where in the might… Iehouah ſ…ts Iu…ge Ieſus Chriſt is plaintiefe and Sathan defendant. …al…e thinke all this ſollemnity ha… no other e…de but onelyonly that Actuall poſſ…ſſ…o… might b… co…demned? Or rather that the Almi…hty God iudging the cauſe betwene his Elect and Sathan, did now in regard of his Sonne his merrite fully ſatiſfying his iuſtice, giuegive ſentence agaīſt Sathan with his choſen, and thereby expell him from that kingdom which heretofore he had generally holden, that in al nations by the preaching of the word, children might be begotten to the Lord. This were ſufficient to controule your wicked errour, yet becauſe the matter is waighty, we will conſider a place or two more. S. Paul to the Colloſſia…s explaineth this p…int moſt fully.chap: 2:13 And y e (ſaith he which were dead in ſinnes, and in the vncircumciſion of your fl…ſh, hath he quickned togither with him, forgiuing you all your treſpaſſ…, & putting out the hand-writing of ordinances that was againſt vsus, &c. And hath ſpoyled the principa lityes and p wers, and hath made a ſhew of them openly, & hath triumphed ou r them in the ſame cr…ſſ…. In which wordes, he doth as it were comment vponupon this ſpeach of our Sauiour decla… ng How Sathan is caſt forth: what is the benefit, and to whome it belongeth. The manner of Sathan… caſting ſo th is, by ſatiſfyīg the iuſtice of god, ſignifyed by can…elli g th… hand writing, & by spoyling principallityes & po…ers &c. Is the handw…iting… cancelled only for Demoniacks? That benefit is A qu ckning togither with Ieſus Christ and the forgiueneſſe of all treſp…ſſ s. Are the ſinnes of demoniacks onelyonly forgiuen, and they onelyonly quickned? Nay many which are diſpoſſeſſed a…e not quickned with Chri…t, not hauehave their treſpaſſe forgiuen, but being emptie, ſwept, and garniſhed, are repoſſeſſed with ſeauen worſe diuels then they were at the firſt. Except perhaps the ſentence was only terrible in the time of our Sauiour, but now after his death is no more to be feared, poſſeſſion by your wiſe interpre…ation being fully determined. To whom this benefit belongeth, are they which were dead in ſinnes, & in the vncircumciſion of the fleſh. Are onelyonly Demoniacks ſuch? Is not this the eſtate of all the Elect before they be called? Thus much S Paul. In the Epiſtle to the Hebrewes likewiſe the ſame is moſt plaine, where it is affirmed,Heb, 2, 14:15 that Chriſt tooke humane nature vponupon him, that in the ſame he might deſtroy through death, him that …ad the power of death, that is the diuel And that he might deleuer all them which for feare of death were all their life time ſubiect to bondage where alſo it is plaine how Sathan was throwne out, and that the fruit redownds to al that were oppreſſed with feare of death, which nomber is infinite, beſides Demoniacks. VVhere it is to be obſerued, how theſe Diſcourſers alleadginge this text, euer when they come to the fiftenth verſe, which they ſ…e doth vtterly ouerthrow them, ſhrinck back againe, not daring to touch it, as if ſome ſcorpyon lay vnderunder this ſtone. which makes me thinke, they doe not ſo much ignorantly, as of purpoſe peruert the ſcripture. But let vsus (by the way) ſee how they doe vrge this Scripture to their purpoſe. This word deſtruction (ſay you) cannot fitly be applyed to Sathan his power of obſeſſion, pag, 185.but muſt neceſſarily be appropriated to his power of poſſeſſiō, which was not only much maymed, but vtterly deſtroyed by the death of our Sauiour, ſo as non can be poſſeſt now in theſe daies of the gospel. If this here ſaid of the diuel is to be appropriated to the power of poſſeſſiō, thē hath Chriſt deſtroyed the diuel onelyonly for Demoniacks. By this your interpretation alſo of the word deſtroy, none can now doe the workes of the diuel, none can at this day lye, ſlaunder, commit murther, whoredome &c. For 1. Ioh. 3.8. it is ſaid that Chriſt hath appeared to deſtroy the workes of the diuel, and thus you your ſelues tranſlate the worde. Breifly none of the regenerate can ſinne,pag 186. Rom: 6, 6, ſith it is ſaid the olde man (of ſuch) is crucified with Christ, that the body of ſinne might be deſtroyed. But to returne thither whence I hauehave digreſſed.
Laſtly from the interpretation which you doe giuegive of Ioh. 12.31. it muſt neceſſarily follow, which you alſo boldly deliuer for truth, that by Christ the power of poſſeſſion was finally determined, & vtterly annihillated, that an ende was made of this buſines. And againe, that our Sauiour Christ put a finall end to the poſſeſſion of diuels by his death and reſurrection. Now how can this poſſibly be true, Ans. pag, 66:ſith after Chriſt his death and reſurrection many were poſſeſſed with diuels, as is plaine by the Actes of the Apoſtles? Beeſides after our Lord was riſen, he foretels that ſome beleeuers ſhould in his name caſt out diuels. Heerevnto you anſwering,Mark: 16:17. page: 197: graunt that there were indeed poſſeſſions & diſpoſſeſſions, a time (that is a little time) after Chriſt his death & reſurrection, for confirmation of his glorious gospel, but none at all for the declaration of Chriſt his Deitie. But how is it proued? why M. Deacon and M. Walker ſay it. That we may plainly ſee that this is an abſurd ſhift, we muſt remember that the miracles wrought by the Apoſtles or others as well after as before Chriſts death, ſerued for confirmation of Chriſt his Deitie. Firſt in that Chriſt is the ſubiect or matter of the goſpell. That therefore which maketh for the confirmation of the truth of the goſpel, (which the miracles wrought by the Apoſtles after Chriſts death did, by their owne confeſſion) muſt nedes make for confirmation of this Chriſt, that he is the true Meſſiah, and Sauiour of the world. And if of Chriſt, then both of his Deity and humanity. For Chriſt is a perſon conſiſting of theſe two natures. Againe, the goſpel teacheth the Deitie of Chriſt, whatſoeuer miracles then confirme the goſpel, the ſame confirme Chriſts Deity. Moreouer, the miracles, & namely the diſpoſſeſſions of the Apoſtles, or of any other wrought after Chriſts reſurrection, were wrought in the name of Chriſt, a…d therefore confirmed Chriſt his Deity. Mark. 16.17In my name (ſaith Chriſt) they ſhall caſt out diuels. And this they ſhould doe after his reſurrection. I commaund thee (ſaith Paul) in the name of Ieſus Chriſt, Acts: 16:18:that thou come out of her, & he came out. Tell me now ye Diſcourſ…rs, whether this diſpoſſeſſion of S. Paul and ſuch like diſpoſſeſſions,Actes 8.7. & 19.23, performed after Chriſt his reſurrection, whereof we reade in the Act…s, made not for the confirmation of Chriſt his deity. Behoulde the palpable darkneſſe that hath couered you: which notwithſtanding you …eele not, nor in reſpect thereo… keepe your ſelues ſtill and quiet without ſtirring in your places, as the Egiptians did: but you ſtrout it out, and wa…k b…l…lie, as in the cleareſt ſunn ſhine, by ſo much more miſerable then the …giptians were But if you will be ſo hardy, you muſt thanke your ſelues, if you breake your ſhinnes, for you can hardly breake your faces, and it may be this doth make you ſo venterous.
pag 182You proſecute your abſurd interpretation of I…hn 12. further by conference of ſome ſcriptures, which either you doe not, or will not vnderſtand; by a Reſolution making little to the purpoſe, and laſtly by the teſtimonies of diuers: wherein you hauehave a notable grace, to abuſe mens names and wordes contrary to their meanings. Bring one approued author i… you can, that reſtrayneth the caſtinge out of the Prince of the worlde, to the deliuerance of demoniackes, and to the ending or finall determination of poſſeſſiō: which if you cannot, what a ſhame is it, or rather a wickednes not to be borne, to foyſt in the names of good Authors, and ſome ſcattered patches of ſentences ſounding contrary to their iudgments, to deceaue the ſimple, and to draw them into error? Are you men appointed to be leaders of the blinde, and doe you willingly digge pitts for them? The Lord deliuer his people from ſuch paſtors which ſtop theire mouthes with grauel inſtead of bread, and kill them with the poyſon of their owne erronious conceipts, inſtead of feeding them with the wholeſome foode of God his truth. My purpoſe is not to enter any particuler examination of your allegations. For euen as one when he was inioyned to carry away a dunghill, after he conſidered how huge and foule it was, neuer put to his ſhoulders, but opened a paſſage to a riuer not far of, by the flowing wherof he ſwept it away: So I, when I perceaue how weariſome and vnprofitable it would be to ranſack to the bottome this heape of trumpery, thinke it better, rather then to remoue all this baggage, in…tead of water to put her to it, which happely might make ſome ſpeedy riddance or ſuch ſtuff… …nd thus much for this Dialogue.