A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 2, Part 2 · Chapter 1
THE FIRST CHAPTER VVHEREOF, being of holy daies: is deuided, into tvuo partes.
THE FIRST PART, OF THE FIrst chapter: of the ceremony of the Easter, Natiuity, and Ʋuhitſon holy dayes.
TTe Treatiſe of the general fautes beingDiuiſ. 1. pa. …8. ended, I come to the particuler: where, I pas, the eight firſt diuiſions, as thoſe which hauehave no matter, ether worth, or requiring anſwer. Before I come to the ninth, which is of the prayers: I wil diſpatch the treatiſe of the holy dayes, as it lieth page 538, of the Doctors book. To that of abrogating them, for the shameful abuſe and ſuperstition, crept into mens mindes of them: he anſwereth, that thinges of neceſſary vſe, owght not for their abuſe, to be abrogated. where, firſt he maketh a neceſſary vſe, in the church of thinges, which the ſcripture hath giuen no commandement of: Secondly, he condemneth in this point, the churches that vſe them not: and thirdly, deſtroyeth the liberty of placing or diſplacing them, which hym ſelf apag. 541. …ect. 2.otherwhere aſcribeth to the magistrate. His other anſwer, that they be meanes rather to withdraw from ſuperſtition, by reaſon of reading and preaching, diuers tymes after repeated: is but an abuſing of the tyme. For nether doeth he anſwer any thing to my reply, which was, that preaching cā not come to al, throvugh the ſcarcity of preachers, and that vuhere yt doeth, the fruit is hyndered, vuhileſt the commō ſort attend rather to that vuhich is doē, thē to that vuhich is ſaid: Nether can he make any ſufficient reply to my adiui. 4 p. 540.anſwer, which is, that that profit is vuithovut danger receiued othervuhere, and may be vuith vsus, vuithovut ſuch ſolemnities of feaſtes, yf, preaching ād prayers being as they are, the rest of the day be imployed, as other vuorking dayes. Againſt which, that which he excepteth page 546, that yf theſe and other holy dayes were not, men should, for inſtruction of their families, be driuen to ſpēd twiſe or thriſe in a week, half the day: is to ſimple. For they hauehave the lords day, a great part whereof may be beſtowed that way: and that which is needful for their further inſtruction, may be ſupplied of the howshoulders, whileſt their families be in their dayly occupation: as alſo, the lord in his bDeute. 60. verſ. 7.law, by reckoning vp certein kindes, commandeth to be doen, in al maner of our exerciſes. The next requireth no anſwer.
That the keping of Easter, vuas left free at the first: Diuiſ. 3. pa. 539.wil appear after, owt of Socrates. That owt of clib. 5. cap. 22.Euſebius: maketh againſt hym ſelf. For to let pas, the vnlikelihood of the dayes of fast, which should goe before, wherof there is not a word, nether in the ould nor nue Teſtament: yf it were a tradition of the Apostles, yet it was vſed of them, as a thing indifferent: conſidering that the ſame ſtory witneſſeth, that S. Iohn the Apoſtle, togither with the churches of Aſia, did celebrateEuſeb. 5. li. 24. 25. the Eaſter, as the Iues were wont, vponupon the xiiij day of the monethmonth. Now, if S. Iohn hym ſelf, which departed not from the autority of the ſcripture, did kepe the Iues day: he gaue ſufficiently to vnderſtand, that our Eaſter hath no autority from the ſcriptures: for then he would hauehave kept yt alſo. Likewiſe, the Heluetian confeſsiō, leauing yt at the liberty of the churches, as a thing indifferent: maketh againſt hym, but againſt me yt maketh not, which confes, that that day may be kept, and deny, that yt is for our eſtate and tyme, ſo expedient. his anſwer to the incommodity of reſtrayning our cogitations, to a fevu dayes, vuhich should be extended to our vuhole lyfe: is nothing worth. For althowgh, no abuſe of men, may take away gods inſtitution: yet in abuſe of thinges, which may be chaunged, and are indifferent, yt is not ſo.
His allegation, that the lord notwithſtanding the liberty of working Diuiſ. 4. p. 541.ſix dayes, made certein other holy dayes: is but an abuſing of the reader, it being aIn my former booK diuiſion. 6. p. 542.preuented by me. And not content herewith, the very ſame iudgmēt, which he here aloweth in hym ſelf: in me he flatly condemneth afterward. For where in his former book page 174, he confeſſeth that god gaue liberty to labour ſix dayes: in this, he affirmeth, that by making certeyn feaſtes, whereof ſome fal vponupon theſe ſix working dayes, he hath taken away that liberty. I ſay not a iot more, in effect: yet my ſaying is nue, and his is ould: I am ouershot, and he hath hit the mark. His reaſon is, becauſe I make god contrary to hym ſelf. But how I, more then he? o hauehave liberty of god to work ſix dayes, and to be reſtrayned by him of that liberty: be as contrary, as any thing which I hauehave ſet down. And of hym, it is ſaid alſo bluntly, withowt any caution: whereas, I shewed the equity of god in this colour of contrariety. Againſt which, hys exception, that yt can not be shewed in al the ſcripture, that god hath made any law against his own commandement: ys vntrue. For not to goe far, was it not a law of god, that the Iues were bound of neceſsity, to keep the Sabbats, and other ſolemn feaſtes? And, is yt not now a law of god, that (at the leaſt) they are not ſo bound? His fear, that god should be thus contrary to hym ſelf, is cauſeles: no more, then the father is to be houlden vnconſtant, which when his ſon commeth to mans eſtate, freeth hym of the obedience vntounto his ſeruant, vnderunder which he caſt hym in hys tender yeares: or then the phyſition, which, according to the ſtate of his pacients body, preſcribeth notCal. 4. onelyonly a diuers, but a quite cōtrary diet. This ys a catechiſm matter, whereat he could hardly hauehave ſtumbled, yf his ey had bene ſimple: althowgh, to ſay the truth, in this caſe in hand, there is no contrariety, but onelyonly exceptions owt of a general law. which, that the church may doe in likewiſe, as god the lawgiuer hym ſelf, which he after maketh his proof: is to gros. For thereby, not onelyonly the queſtion yt ſelf: but more alſo then ys in queſtion, is demaunded.
That thoſe to whome the eſtablishing of the ceremonies doeth belong, may appoint that which is conuenient for diuine ſeruice, as often as the church may conueniently aſſemble, ys agreed: and euen in the matter of appointing whole holy dayes, in certeyn caſes, yt is alſo by me apag. 54….confeſſed. But, that the Magistrate may cal from, or compel to bodily labour, as shal be thowght to hym most conuenient: ys not meaſured, according to the cubit of the ſanctuary: I mean, of the word of god. For, what yf the Magiſtrate shal think yt conuenient, that men should labour, but one day in the week: what yf he should think neuer a one: is the Subiectes obedience tyed to this ordinance? Yf it be ſo, what shal then become of gods commandement: that bGeneſ. 3.men shal eat their bread in ſore trauail? who shal prouide for wife and children, with the reſt of the family: for which notwithſtanding c1. Timo. 5.vuhoſo prouideth not for, is vuors then an infidel. His reaſon, that this yt no conſcience matter, deceiueth hym, whileſt he alwayes reſtrayneth conſcience matters, to inward thinges alone: whereas yt extendeth yt ſelf as far, and to as many matters, as there is ether commandement for, or prohibition againſt, in the word of god.
And as this is vnaduiſedly put forth, ſo that which ſoloweth, that the word of god doeth not conſtrein the Magiſtrate, from turning carnal liberty to the ſpiritual ſeruice of god: ys to fowl an ouerſight. For, thereby he accounteth bodily labour a carnalTract. 7. p. 757. liberty, which is an acceptable ſeruice vntounto god: as hath bene alledged, where he fel at the very ſame ſtone. whereas, yf bodily labour were carnal liberty: the church, and the Magiſtrate not onelyonly might, but were ſtreightly bownd to restrayn yt: yea vtterly to abolish yt.
After he asketh, why the church may not aſwel reſtrayn frō working any part of the day, as from the most part of yt: which (ſaith he) I confes. where, firſt, my wordes taken at the largeſt, affourd no further vacation from labours, then the tyme wherein the ordinary ſeruice may be celebrated: which is not, the moſt part of the day. Secondly, where he concludeth thereupon, that yt may reſtrayn vsus any part of the day: yf that were admitted, what would folow? that therefore, yt may reſtrayn from labour the whole day? there is great oddes: for, yt is one thing to reſtrayn any part of the day, and another, to reſtrayn the whole day. Therefore, to hauehave concluded any thing: for theſe wordes, any part of the day, yow should hauehave put, the whole day. Now yf yow ask me, why the church may not aſwel reſtrain men from labour the whole day ordinarily (for in extraordinary caſes yt is confeſſed) as to reſtrayn them ſo much tyme, as the deuine ſeruice may be celebrated in: yt is, but a faīt queſtion. For I would ask of yow, whether, yf it were lawul forthe church to appoint two holy dayes eueryevery week: yt were therefore lawful for her, to appoint ſix? And yf yow wil hauehave your reaſon truſt vp in few wordes, yt is this: The church may doe that, which is les, therefore yt may doe that which is more.
Again, the deuine ſeruice, wherefore the vacation is commanded, being ended: whereupō should the reſt of the day be better imploied, thē in the dayly vocations? yow wil anſwer, in priuate reading the word of god, and prayer. This, in deed, might hauehave better colour, yf the charge were as ſtreight to driue men from playing, and diſſolutnes often tymes, vntounto this exerciſe: at yt is, to driue them from their work. Howbeit, here owght not to be forgotten, the wiſe mans counſail,Eccleſ. 7. 18. that vue should not be to iuſt: So that, as the greateſt heap fal away from god, by prophanes and contempt of his ſeruice, thorowgh the deſire of folowing the world: euē ſo of the contrary part, men boeth may, and hauehave ſometymes declined, whileſt they eſtemed that the cutting away of ſome peece from their neceſſary trauail, could not be vnacceptable vntounto the lord, ſo that the ſame were beſtowed in the church exerciſes.
And, althowgh the wealth of ſome may wel ſuffer, al theſe vacations from their dayly callings, and moe to: yet, in making the church ceremonies, reſpect muſt be had, what the comon ſort may doe: euen as yt is in a muſical conſent, where the ſweeter or finer voice ys not alwayes takē, but that which wil beſt accord and fal in, with the reſt of the Quier. As for thoſe, to whom the lord hath giuen the meanes, to occupie them ſelues oftener, in priuate reading of the holy ſcripture, and prayer, yf they hauehave affection thereunto, they wil likely doe yt, withowt this order: if they hauehave none, they wil abuſe the reſt, to fulfil their nawghty deſires: which might be in part reſtrayned, by trauail in their vocation.Diuiſ. 5. pa. 541.
The reaſon, is like. For the autority is al one, to make yt vnlavuful to vuork vuhen god hath made yt lavuful: and to make yt lavuful to labour, vuhen god hath made yt vnlavuful. And therefore, euen as the church can not commaund men, to labour the ſeuenth day, wherein the lord hath commanded reſt, but vponupon ſome good cōſideration: ſo can yt not, but vponupon like conſiderations, reſtrayn men from labour any of the ſix dayes: ſo that his anſwer, that the one is a commandement, the other a permiſsion, is nothing worth. For, as the commandement of reſting the ſeuenth day, muſt, becauſe of gods autoritye, abide in the nature of a commandement: ſo the permiſsion to work the ſix dayes, warranted by the ſame autority, muſt abide in the nature of a permiſsion. The third ſection, is beſide the cauſe. For yt is not in queſtion, whether priuate men should be ſubiect, vntounto ſuch orders: but whether the church, should charge them with this yoke, or no.
Of the liberty of the church in this matter, ſo yt be vponupon conditionsDiuiſ. 6. p. 542. before ſpecified, there is no queſtion. Howbeit, the example owt of Eſther 9, of the two dayes which the …ues inſtituted, in the remembrance of their deliuerance: is no ſufficient warrant, for theſe feaſtes in queſtion. For firſt, as in other caſes, ſo in this caſe of dayes: the eſtate of Chriſtians vnderunder the goſpel, owght not to be ſo ceremonious, as was theirs vnderunder the law. Secondly, that which was doen there: was doen, by a ſpecial direction of the ſpirit of god, ether throwgh the miniſtery of the Prophetes which they had, or by ſome other extraordinary meanes, which is not to be folowed of vsus. This may appear by another aZach. 8.place, where the Iues changed their faſtes into feaſtes: onelyonly by the mouth of the lord, throwgh the miniſtery of the Prophet. For further proof whereof, firſt I take the 28 verſe: where yt appeareth, that this was an order to endure alwayes, euen as long as the other feaſtes dayes, which were inſtituted by the lord hī ſelf. So that, what abuſes ſo euer were of that feaſt, yet as a perpetual decree of god, yt owght to hauehave remained. whereas our churches, can make no ſuch decree, which may not, vpō change of tymes and other circumſtāces, be altered. For the other proof hereof, I take the laſt vers. For the Prophet cōtenteth not hym ſelf with that, that he had rehearſed the decree, as he doeth ſometyme the decree of prophane kynges: but addeth preciſely, that as ſone as euer the decree was made, yt was regiſtred in this book of Eſther, which is one of the bookes of the canonical ſcripture: declaring thereby, in what eſteme they had yt. Yf yt had bene of no further autority, then our decrees, or then a canon of one of the councels: yt had bene preſumption, to hauehave browght yt into the library, of the holy goſt. The ſum of my anſwer, is, that this decree was diuine, and not eccleſiaſtical onelyonly. That which he addeth, of eueryevery priuate mans conſent in theſe matters: is not to the queſtion, and… In the former part of this book p. 226. lin. 35. yet is b before anſwered.
THE SECOND PART OF THIS chapter, of Saintes dayes.
YF purgatory were propounded onelyonly as aDiuiſ. 1. pa. …43. thing indifferent, which a man might beleue or not beleue, and yt were in our chois, whether we would pray for the dead or no: yet this liberty is nawght: wherefore, your anſwer, that purgatory is made neceſſary to ſaluation, is inſufficient. But, as purgatory ys vnlawful, with what ſauce ſoeuer yow ſet yt before vsus: ſo the keping of Saintes dayes holy, can by no glos be made good. your confounding therefore of Saintes dayes, with holy dayes, as yf there were one caſe of them boeth: is no ſimple dealing.
Vuhat force there ys, in the name of ſaintes dayes, to make Diui. 2. pa. 544.men beleue, that they are instituted to their honour: let the reader iudg, of that which I aIn the firſt booK. p. 61. ſect. 3. & 4. and pa. 62. ſect. 1. 2. alſo in the former part of this p. 408. lin. 37.hauehave written. How much more, doe they confirm this: when boeth the corrupt cuſtome, and doctrine, in popery, hath foreſtalled the peoples mindes with that opinion. whereunto his anſwer, that I might much better reaſon against the names of Sonday and Moneday: ys vntrue. For firſt, the vſe of ſuch thinges, is not ſo free in eccleſiaſtical matters: as in ciuil affaires. Secondly, our people hath not bene nusled vp, in that filth of worshipping the Sun and Mone, as they hauehave bene of the ſaintes: in ſo much as (the learned ſet apart) there are few, which know that there were euer any dayes, obſerued in the honour of the Sun or Mone. Yf they had bene ſo nusled, who ſeeth not, but that yt had bene moſte cōuenient, for the rooting owt of that Idolatry: to hauehave made a change, of theſe names. Thirdly, yt ys knowen, that good men after the example of DauidPſal. 16. (which would not once defile his lippes with naming the Idols or Idolatrous thinges, except yt were with deteſtation): boeth abſteyn from ſuch names, as much as the common vſe wil ſuffer, and deſire the abolishment of them.
To my reaſon, that as the lordes holy dayes, are taken to be instituted to his honour, ſo the ſaintes holy dayes may eaſely be thovught of the ruder ſort, to be instituted to their honour: he anſwereth, that the lords holy dayes, are ſo called eſpecially, becauſe the ſcriptures concerning hym, are then red: which is no anſwer. For, yf hys anſwer were true: yet, yt confeſsing by the way, that they are taken in part, to be inſtituted to the lords honour, graūteth forthwith, that there ys occaſion giuen to the ruder ſort, to think that the Saintes dayes are in part, inſtituted to their honour. As for hys ſentence owt of Auguſtin, yt ys a meer abuſing of the tyme: as yf eueryevery thing inſtituted to the honour of god, were a ſacrament, or that a thing doen in remembrance of the lord, may not, or rather ys not, doē to hys honour. And here, yt is to be noted, that the D. ys taken, in hys own nettes. For he defendeth the keping holy, of theſe Saintes dayes, as they were vſed in the elder churches, and as Ierome and Auguſtin mayntein thē. Now, hym ſelf, hath for hys defence alledged owt of Ierome,pag. 546. that theſe dayes are obſerued to the Martyrs: and owt of Auguſtin, that in them we honour the memoryes of martyrs. Therefore hys eſcape, that no man ys ſo mad, as to think, that by theſe dayes we doe any honour vntounto the Saintes: ys not onelyonly an opē vntruth, but directly contrary to that hym ſelf maynteyneth.
Vuhat ignorance is in the land, for want of teaching: IIn the former part Tract. 5. leau to the readers iudgment, of that which hath bene ſaid. To that I alledged, that althowgh there vuere teaching, yet yt vuere good, that theſe names should not help to vnteach: he anſwereth not. Howbeit, he goeth further, asking whether for eueryevery particular mans ignorance or abuſing of yt: the churchis order, must be changed. He may wel know, that yf there be one man which abuſeth yt throwgh ignorance, there are moe then a thowſand: and yf there were but one onelyonly, yet, ſeing that man ys in danger to wrake hym ſelf at this rok, owght not the church rather to change this name, then to giuegive occaſion of deſtroying hym, for whome Chriſt hath died? cō ſidering, that of naming thoſe holy dayes, Saintes dayes, there can be no fruit, or profit aſsigned.
Hys exception againſt Augustins complaint, of the Diuiſ. 3. pa. 545. Augu. Epi. ad Ianuar. …9.multitude of Ceremonies, that he ſpeaketh not of holy dayes: ys vnworthy of anſwer, conſidering that he ſpeaketh generally of al kinde of ceremonies: likewiſe, that he ſaith he ſpeaketh of vnprofitable ceremonies. For, he diſputeth ſimply againſt the multitude of Ceremonies vnderunder the goſpel. whereas, yf they had bene but a few, and yet vnprofitable, he would therefore, hauehave condemned them. As for that he ſaith, that ours are profitable, and appoued by the custome of the whole church: the firſt ys an asking of that in queſtion, the other ys an vntruth, as doeth after appear. Now, whereas I ſaid, that in this ceremony of holy dayes, vue excede euen the Iues: he maketh hys accountes ſo, that they (as he ſaith) had the greater numbre. But what Auditor wil alow, theſe accountes of yours. Firſt of al therfore, yow muſt ſtrike of the ſuppoſed holy day of Iudith, for the reaſon, shewed in aIn the former part p. 400.another place: likewiſe, thoſe of the Makabites, as thoſe whereof there is no certeinty: and boeth Iudiths, and the Makabites togither, as thoſe which, yf euer they were houlden, were houlden many hundreth yeares after the giuing of the law. For the which cauſe, the two dayes of Heſther, althowgh they differ as far from the other, as heauen from earth: owght not to come, into this account.
For this compariſon, is not inſtituted betwene vsus, and any eſtate of the Iues vnderunder the law: but with the ordinary eſtate, and with that which was giuen in mount Synay, by the miniſtery of Moſes. For, that is boeth S. Auguſtins meaning, and yt is a fowl wart in the churches face vnderunder the goſpel: to be ſo ceremonius, as the ordinary eſtate of the church was vnderunder the law. There remayn onelyonly, three feaſtes of the Paſouer whitſontyde and the Tabernacles: vntounto eueryevery one whereof, yow aſcribing ſeuen, raiſe the ſum of one and twenty holy dayes. But here alſo, yow are fowly ouer reckened. For, the firſt onelyonly, and the laſt day, of eueryevery of thoſe three ſeuēs, wereLeuit. 23. verſ. 7. 8. &c. holy: in the reſt, which were betwene them, althowgh there were extraordinary ſacrifices, yet men might, after diuine ſeruice, folow their ordinary vocations. Oneles therfore, yow make a far other rowl of the Iuish holy dayes, then yow hauehave doen hether toward: yow ſee that my ſaying, that vue hauehave more thē dubble as many holydayes as they, ys mayntenable, and deſerueth no ſuch cenſure, as yow giuegive yt.
For any thing that I could euer learn, we are by the lawes as much bownd from labour vponupon the ſaints dayes, as vponupon the lords day: wherein, I report my ſelf to that which may be knowen hereof: the reſt ys anſwered. In the next diuiſion, there is nothing but a manifeſt piller of popery, with shameful owtrage vntounto the holy goſt: in that he calleth the appeal to the ſcriptures and example of the Apoſtles, from certeyn cuſtomes of the churches, which were more then a hundreth yeares after Chriſt, an vnlearned shift: which is apag. 549.before towched.
In the next, the teſtimony of Socrates, ys faithfully cytedSocrat. 5. li. cap. 22. foreign of me. As for that he anſwereth, that by eueryevery one, he meaneth not eueryevery perſon, but eueryevery countrey or people, alledging to that purpoſe another place in the ſame chapter, where (ſaith he) ys put eueryevery particuler people: he ys abuſed. For there is no more mention of people in that bforeign.place: then, in that which I alledged. Beſide that, in ſaying that yt was no law, but a cuſtome, and that yt was not penal to thoſe vuhich did not kepe yt: Socrates confirmeth the indifferency, which I affirmed, to hauehave bene in in the beginning.
For the alowance of Saintes dayes, whereof the queſtionDiuiſ. 6. p. 549. is here, althowgh he hath onelyonly M. Bullingers teſtimony, which ys retracted and condemned by M. Bullingers own ſelf: yet he marcheth forward ſtil as bouldly, as yf he had a whole legion of learned men, of hys ſide. what dealing this ys, let the world iudg. But they be (forſooth) his own wordes, which he hath alledged: ſo are theſe yours, Baſil in his book of offices, yet, I ſuppoſe, yow wil be loth, that yt should be now accounted your iudgment, after yow hauehave corrected your ſelf. Here alſo, to the iudgment of ſuch a cCōfeſſ. Eccleſ. Tigur. & aliarum …cc. cap. 24.number of reformed churches vuhich hauehave condemned the keping of theſe dayes as vnlavuful: he not onelyonly anſwereth nothing, but walketh ſtil in his ould path of bould and vntrue affirmation, that the custome of the whole church confirmeth them: as thowghpag. 545. the reformed churches now, were no churches at al. And, that the reader may further know, hys importunity in this behalf: he may vnderſtand that beſide M. Bullingers conſent in general, with the reſt of the churches: the diſalowance of that particular church of Zurich, and conſequently of hym towching theſe Saintes dayes, doeth appear in a bookLauaterus de ritibus eccleſ. Tigu. cap. 8. a part. And if the learned reader look, the later edition of M. Bullingers commentary vponupon the Romanes: he may, peraduenture, finde his former iudgment, alledged by the D. corrected.
Hetherto alſo, commeth Muſculus iudgment in particular:Muſcu. common places vponupon the 4 commandement. Hoper vpō the ſame cō mandemēt. which affirmeth, that there can be no defence for the ſaintes dayes, vuhatſoeuer be pretended: likewiſe M. a Hopers, which condemneth them, notwithſtanding their gray heares, yea the very firſt inſtitution of them, and that vponupon credit of that, which the D. calleth an vnlearned shift: that ys to ſay, by oppoſing the autority of the word of god, and the examples of the churches, gouerned by the Apoſtles and Prophetes. In the next diuiſion, in Caluins iudgment, towching the three feaſtes dedicated to the lord, I wil procede no further: conſidering that yt appeareth in his epiſtles, that he was not the cauſe of the abrogating them. As for the ſaintes dayes, whereof onelyonly (in deed) the queſtion is in thys place: conſidering that which hath bene alledged, I think the D. hym ſelf wil make hym no patrone of. Althowgh, throwg… the multitude of our papiſtes, the obſeruation of theſe dayes, as of Easter &c. amongeſt vsus, vuould hauehave inconueniences, vuhich yt should not hauehave vuith them, vuhere there are none, as I hauehave alſo before obſerued. The reſt in this chapter, is anſwered.