A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Reply 17

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 · Reply 17

p. LXXXICap. 3. Diuiſion 1. pag. 100.

IN the firſt whole page / there is nothing to be anſwered: yt being p. LXXXIIſhewed / that yt is not our queſtion (which the A. dooth ſo ſhamefully affirme) whether the ſcripture hauehave expreſſed all externall ceremonies / &c. In the next page / vntounto me ſhewing that the place off Auguſt. to Caſulanus is againſt hym / for that where he would proue / that certein thinges are in the churches power / the wordes which he alledgeth ſay / that the decrees of the forefathers / and couſtomes off the people off God are to be obſerued / tying the church to the decrees / and couſtomes off thoſe which went before: he anſwereth / that Auguſt. giueth a rule vntounto priuate men and not vntounto the church. Wherein he condemneth him ſelf / off hauing alledged that ſentence cleane beſide the cauſe. For it is manifeſt / by the wordes immediatly goinge before / that he alledged it / to proue the autoritie off the church in thinges indifferent: neither can yt in any other reſpect / hauehave any bonde with that / which he pretendeth to proue. And nowe that yt is ſhewed / howe vnfitly the place is alledged: he ſhifteth his footing / and in ſteade off a rule towchinge the church / he maketh yt a rule for priuate men: and in ſteade off ſhewing the libertie off the church / he ſheweth the bondage / that a priuate man is tyed by.

Where I conclude againſt hym off that ſentence off Auguſtine / that we ought to followe the couſtomes / and orders off the Apoſtels / and off the primatiue churches / ſeing yt ys certein / that they were our forefathers / and the people off God: and that we owght not to followe the Papiſtes / which are neither the people off God / nor our forefathers: to the firſt / off folowinge the Apoſtels / he ſaith / there were certeine thinges conuenient onelyonly for their tymes / which are not to be folowed. Wherein onleſſe he meane thoſe thinges / which are in controuerſie / yt is nothing to the pourpoſe: and iff he meane them / yt is a manifeſt begging off that / which is in demaunde. VntoUnto the ſeconde point / off not taking the Papiſtes couſtomes / and decres: he referreth me to other places. Where notwithſtanding he neuer anſwereth this argument off Auguſtin: and ſo in pretence off a fitter place / he hath taken a longer day.

Where he noteth me of ignorance (in that I ſaide / I could p. LXXXIIIoppoſe Ignatius / and Tertull / vntounto Auguſt. and Ambroſe / towchinge the faſt vppon the Lordes day) ſaying / that there is no difference betweene them, thone part ſpeaking off the Saturday, the other off the Sonday: I am contented to beare his charge off ignorance. But is there any man / ſo forſaken off all not learninge onelyonly / but common reaſon / which dooth not vnderſtand that thes propoſitions differ / and fight amongeſt them ſelues / yt ys a deteſtable thinge to faſt on the Lordes day: which is the Iudgement off Ignatius / and Tertull: and / yt is lavvfull to faſt on the Lordes day: Which is the Iudgement off Auguſtine / ſet downe off him ſelffe? And when Ambroſe / ſpeaking not onelyonly off the Sabbothe off the Iewes / but generally / willeth that vvhatſoeuer the couſtome off the church be in that behalffe off faſting, yt ſhould be folovved: dooth he not manifeſtly ouerthrowe his ſaying / which ſaith / to faſt on the Lordes day is to kill the Lorde? And euen in the caſe off the faſt off the Iewes Sabbothe / which Caſulanus demaundeth counſaill off / yt appeareth there was great diſagrrement betweene the aunciēt fathers / conſideringe that in the Canons / which are attributed vntounto the Apoſtles / 65. foreign.it was ordeined / that if one were founde to faſte on the Lordes day / or on the Sabbothe (one onelyonly exepted): being a clerke / he ſhould be depoſed / and being a layman / ſeparated from the ſupper off the Lorde. If I hauehave off ignorance / ſet the fathers together by the eares (as he ſaith): let vsus ſee / howe with his knoweledge / he can part them / and ſet them at one in this behalffe.

That the faſtes which were kept / in the tymes off Ambroſe / and Auguſtine / and longe before / and their allowance eſpecially off the Lentenne faſtes Were corrupte / and prophanations off the true vſe off faſt: yf neede were / as I hauehave in part / ſo yt might in more wordes eaſely be ſhewed. That the counſaile giuè for the keeping of thoſe ſuperſtitious faſtes / might hauehave place in a ſtraunger / and priuate mā / which owght not to ſtand towardes a Citiſen / and hym that hath charge: yt is apparent. And yet bothe thes the Anſwerer would beare downe with wordes / and nothing but wordes.

p. LXXXIIIIWhere the anſw. ſaying that he knoweth nothing in the place off Auguſtine / or Ambroſe / towching faſting / which may not be obſerued withowt iuſt offenſe / may be taken either to ſpeake of the places which I alledged / thouching merite off faſting / or the places which him ſelffe alledged: I will rather eſteme (vntill I knowe the contrary) that he ment off thoſe which he browght him ſelffe / then together with the ſlipp off ſtanding daies off faſt / he ſhould alſo fall flat by opinion / off the merite in faſting. And ſo I would hauehave the reader to take him / that there be no offenſe taken at this place / ſo doubtfully left. Where he bringeth me in concluding / that becauſe the auncient fathers erred in ſome thinges / therfore they ſaide true in none: my wordes cary no ſuche ſenſe. But for ſo muche as they erred / and euen in this matter off faſt / which was in hande: they owght to hauehave no further credite / then their authoritie is waranted by the word off God / and good reaſon. and that therfore the Anſw. which preſſeth their bare autoritie / withowte any warde off the word of God / or aſſiſtance of good reaſon / ether browght of him ſelfe / or fetched from them / bringeth an intollerable tyrannie into the church of God. This I gaue to vnderſtand / which becauſe he durſt not in plaine wordes gaine ſaie: he hathe tourned my wordes vntounto another ſenſe.

Cap. 3. Diuiſion 2 pag. 103.

Auguſtine ſaithe / that the feaſt of Eaſter, Pentecoſte &c. are the ſtatutes off the Apoſtles, and commended to the churches, and addeth / that they are not conteined in the ſcripture. Whereuppon I concluded / that there is ſome thinge (by this reckening) commanded off God to be obſerued / not conteined in the ſcripture: and conſequently / that there is no ſufficient doctrine / conteined in the ſcripture / whereby we may be ſaued. To this the Doct. anſwereth / that yt is a pretie and ſound collection. I hauehave in deed for ſhortnes ſake / truſſed that into twoo or three propoſitions / which to put in full / and comptere argumentes / required a greater nomber: Howbeit the ſoundenes off the collection / is apparant to all / which will open their eies. And becauſe the Anſ: will yeald no obedience vntounto the truthe / vnleſſe ſhe taking him by the p. LXXXVcollar / hauehave her handē vppon his throat: the foundenes off the collection ſhall thus appeare vntounto him. What ſoeuer was decreed off the Apoſtles / and commended vntounto the churches to be obſerued / is neceſſarie: but ſome thinges (by Aug. and the D.) not conteined in the word off God / were decreed and commended by the Apoſtels / vntounto the poſteritie of the churches: therfore ſome thinges (by Aug. and the D.) not conteined in the word of God / is neceſſarye to be obſerued. The firſt propoſition is manifeſt / conſidering that the ſtatutes off the Apoſtels / are the ſtatutes off Chriſt: the ſeconde is Auguſtines / allowed off the D. and iff bothe theſe be true / then the third muſt needes be.

This being thus gathered / that which I added / that therupō yt folowed / that there is no ſufficient doctrine conteined in the ſcriptures: is thus concluded. That which doothe not conteine all the will off God / neceſſarie for vsus to doo / conteineth no ſufficiente doctrine vntounto ſaluation: but the ſcripture (by Aug / and the d.) conteinethe not all the will off God / neceſſary for vsus to doo: therfore the ſcripture (by Aug. and the d) conteineth no ſufficient doctrine vntounto ſaluation. The firſt propoſition is manifeſt / in that S. Paul to deliuer him ſelffe from the gilte off bloude / towards the Act. 20.Acts 20Epheſ. alledgeth / that he had taught them all the will off God: the ſecond foloweth off that which Aug. and the d. allowe. for iff there be ſome thing commanded off the Apoſtells / not conteined in the worde off God: that being neceſſarie / yt muſt folowe / that ſome neceſſarie thing for vsus to doo / is not conteined in the worde.

And where the A. ſaithe / that neither Aug. nor he ſay, that any thinge not conteined in the ſcripture is ſo neceſſarie, that it may not be altered (vponupon iuſt occaſion) by ſuche as hauehave autoritie: he can not mocke the worlde after that ſorte / withe faſte and looſe at his pleaſure. For if they be ſtatutes off the Apoſtels / and commended vntounto the churches: what autoritie is there vppon earthe / whiche can diſplace them which the apoſtels hauehave placed? and iff it be madnes (as he ſaith afterward owte off Auguſtin) not to obſerue them / or once to reaſon off them: how can they take order in them? And this anſwer is ouerthrowne / by the wordes off Auguſtin whiche folow immediatly. But other things (ſaith he) vvhichwhich are varied by regions (as that ſome faſte vponupon the ſabbothe daye, ſome doo not, &c. p. LXXXVIare at libertie to bo obſerued: neither is there any better rule to a Chriſtian man in thes, then to do as the churche doothe vvhere he comethe. Where it is manifeſt / that he oppoſeth the tradition off the Apoſtels / and ther ſtatutes receiued by tradition: vntounto thoſe thinges / whiche are in the churches power to ordeine / and to thoſe wherin yt ys ſafe for vsus to applie our ſelfes / to the order off the churche. They being therfore in this oppoſed / the one beinge in the churches power / the other are nor the one being of that ſorte / that off which ſide ſoeuer the churche determine off them / a man may ſaflie obey / the other muſte needes be off that ſorte / that if the churche woulde otherwiſe ordeine of them / then the Apoſtels: that a man may not ſafely obey. And in the nexte ſentence / the thinges which he oppoſethe thoſe ſtatutes off the Apoſtels vntounto / he calleth indifferent: and therby giueth to vnderſtande / that he tooke them for vnindifferent. and hitherto perteineth / that he alledgeth owt off Auguſt. in Zuinglius name / and is Li. 4. con. Don. ca. 23.found in his booke againſt the Donatiſtes / where yt ys ſaid / that they are to be holden as giuen by Apoſtolicall autoritie. Which is more then if he had ſaid / giuen by the Apoſtels: conſidering that there are thinges giuen off the Apoſtels as counſailes / and left at the churches order to chaunge vppon occaſion as were the traditions / which M. Caluin ſpeaketh off / but they were neuer left vntounto the church / with an Apoſtolical autoritie. Which autoritie is off the higheſte nature / and proceding from the higheſte court that can be.

And that this was Auguſtines meaning / appeareth manifeſtly by the place which I alledged / out of his booke againſte the donatiſtes. De bapt. contr. Donatiſt. 5. lib. 23. ca.Where he ſaithe / that all thoſe thinges vvhichwhich the churche houldeth generally, are to be houlden as praeceptes off the Apoſtels, althovvghe they be not vvriten: wherunto he anſwereth nothing. And by that place / the folie off the anſwerer wherby he woulde tune Auguſtin by maiſter Caluins wreſte / is more plainly diſcouered. For where he wolde hauehave vsus thinke that Auguſt vnderſtood thoſe traditions onelyonly / which perteine to order / and politie / that may be varied / and not vntounto doctrine: yt is manifeſt / that Auguſtin in that place ſaithe / that the Apoſtels p. LXXXVIIgaue commaundement, tovvching the not rebaptiſing off thoſe vvhiche vvere baptized by Heretikes, and that the cuſtome of off the churche in not rebaptizing, vvhichwhich vvas obiected againſt Cyprian, had the beginning off the Apoſtels tradition. Nowe I would knowe off the anſwerer / whether he dare ſaye / that this iudgement off rebaptizing / be off traditions / which may be chaunged: or whether there can be any iuſt cawſe / wherefore this may be altered? And if he dare not ſaye this / then let him confeſſe his faut / and not ſeeke to make vp his breaches / by ſutche vntempered morter.

Where I ſaye / that thereby there is a gate opened vntounto the the Papiſtes / to bring in vnderunder the colour off traditions / all their beggery: he anſwereth / that the Papiſtes are rather confuted by this meanes / conſidering that the Pope / hath nether at all tymes / nor in all places bene receiued. Where to let pas / that to helpe him ſelfe / he addeth at all times which is not in Auguſtines rule: he towcheth not the point off the cauſe. For in that onelyonly that it is ſaide / that there be precepts off the Apoſtels vntounto the church / not cōteined in the word of God: is puſſhed at the ſtrongeſt bulwarcke / which the church hath to defend yt ſelfe / againſt the Popiſhe beggerie / and all other corruptions / Which bullwarke is / that whatſoeuer is commaunded of the Lorde vntounto the church / is conteined in the worde off God. yff this be once ſhaken: there is no ſufficient reſiſtance left vntounto the church / againſt this aſſaut. For althoughe yt hath ſome great likelihood / which hath bene generally / and from the Apoſtels times receiued: yet for ſomuche as yt is not vnpoſſible for the whole church to erre in ſome point / and to hauehave taken vp / or reteined off that which yt had before / ſome thing not deliuered by the apoſtels: it can be no ſufficiēt bar / to withſtand the corruptions offred to be brought in by the Heretikes / to ſaie that the church hath ether doon / or not doon / ſo / and ſo / ſythēs the Apoſtels tymes. And althoughe we might be aſſured that they are the precepts of the Apoſtels / which hauehave bene ſo generally receyued: yet the doore is not ſo cloſe ſhut againſt corruptions / as he pretendeth. For this thing ſtanding that there are cōmaundemēts giuen of the Apoſtels / not cōteined in the word of god: they p. LXXXVIIImay thruſt in thinges / which hauehave not had that generall / and continuall obſeruation. For althowghe Aug. ſaie / that they are the traditiōns of the Apoſtles / which are generally receiued: yet he dooth not ſaie that they onelyonly are / and the Heretikes whoſe corruptions ſhould be repulſed in this reſpect / that they hauehave not bene generally nor alwaies receiued / might hauehave an eaſye replye / that there is the ſame preiudice againſt certen off the commandementes off the Apoſtels committed to writing: conſidering that they hauehave nether generally / nor continually bene receiued.

Where he alledgeth Zuinglius / vſing a ſentence off Auguſtine not muche vnlike / to confirme childrens baptiſme: yt is to be noted / that Zuinglins vſed not that ſentence / but in the confirmacion off a thing / which hath certeine teſtimonie owt off the word off God / as hath childrens baptiſme / whereit could not be dangerous. and then yt is to be obſerued / that thereby is ouerthrowne his whole anſwer. For Zuinglius taking that ſentence off thinges / which hauehave a neceſſarye obſeruation in the church off God / ād can not be chaunged: putteth to flight his whole anſwer / with the defenſe theroff / which ſuppoſeth Auguſtine to hauehave gyuen this rule / off thinges indifferent. And therefore either the A. is abuſed / in vnderſtanding thes places off thinges indifferent: or els Zuinglius / in vſing this for the neceſſitie off childrens baptiſme / gaue his aduerſaries great aduantage / whileſt they might hauehave anſwered with the D. that that authoritie off the Apoſtels is ſuche / as the church vponupon conſideration may alter. And where he alledgeth M. Caluin / as one which had vſed that rule off Auguſtine: I anſwer / that yt is one thing / to alowe the ſentence off a writer: and another thing / to take ſome aduantage off it when his aduerſarie preſſeth hym with his authoritie. A man vſeth ſome time that defenſe / prouoked by the manner off aſſault off his ennemie / which he would not doo / iff he might chooſe his owne fight: and it might ſerue M. Caluin in part / for arm our againſt the bare autoritie off Auguſtine vrged off the Papiſtes / which is not of proofe / againſt the ſhot off the word off God.

Where he ſaieth / that the Papiſtes hauehave no wicked thing, which ether hath bene generally obſerued, or whereoff he is not able to ſhewe the firſt autor: I anſwer / that it is well the church ſtandethe not in neede / off this defenſe off yowres. For if the Lenten faſt, (which in Auguſtines p. LXXXIXtime had bene by longe couſtome receiued) if holy water / Epiſt. 119.holy oyle / the ſuperſtition off praying towardes the Eaſt (which are off thoſe traditions / that in the place by him alledged owt off lib. de ſpirit ſanct.Baſile / are attributed vntounto the Apoſtles) yff thoſe I ſaie / and ſuche like / be againſt the word off God: let hym tell howe he will cleare the Apoſtels / of being autoures off theſe corruptions / which are fathered of them by men off ſuche credit / onleſſe he flye to this rocke (which by the doctrine off traditions he goeth abowte to vndermine) that is to ſaie: that the Apoſtles hauehave left in writing / whatſoeuer they would hauehave the churches obſerue. For what autoritie ſoeuer he bring to ſhewe / who were the firſt inuentors of theſe thinges / yt being humane / is counteruailed by them / which hauehave caried them vntounto the times off the Apoſtels.

Where vppon on that I ſaide / that all the commandementes off God, and off the Apoſtels, are nedefull for our ſaluation, he maketh ſuch a terrible owtcrie / as if all the church had bene ſet on fire: I dowbt whether (for the vanitie of the accuſation) I ſhould voucheſafe yt of anſwer / which for the ſtrong / and bitter wordes / might ſeme to require a large defenſe. Howbeit let him vnderſtand that when I ſpeake of all the commandementes of God / and off the Apoſtels: nether by the deduction off that which I handled / nor by any Iudgement / not altogether peruerted / could I be thowght to meane any other commaundementes / then thoſe which perteine vntounto vsus. And iff I had met with the vaineſt trifler / and hawker after ſyllables / which can poſſibly be: yet the ſentence I ſet downe / is ſufficiently fenced againſt all his greedines / of ſnapping at yt. For the Ceremoniall lawe / and perſonall lawes giuen in times paſte (being nowe no commaundementes off God / and the Apoſtels) can not be comprehended vnderunder my wordes / off the commandementes off God, &c. And iff a man leuing the deduction off the cawſe / which I had in hand / will ſtaie in the bare wordes / which I vſed: then euen bothe cermoniall / and thoſe which were giuen to particular perſones / albeit they be not to be doone / yet are they for our better inſtruction in the will off God / needefull for our ſaluacion.

To the argument which I vſed / that iff Auguſtine would hauehave vsus doo thoſe thinges / which the Apoſtels vſed in the churches p. XC/ not committed to writing: then muche more he would hauehave bene off aduiſe / that we ſhould kepe that / which is committed to writing / towching their gouernement off the church: he anſwereth nothing.

In the thirde diuiſion pag. 107. to that I found fault with / off the ſecond rule off Auguſtine / which is / that yt is madnes, ether not to kepe, or to reaſon off that, vvhichwhich is vniuerſally obſerued off the church: he anſwereth / that was a rule for Auguſtines time, and not for all times. Wherein / he firſt condemneth him ſelfe / off wandring from the cauſe: which to ſhew / that ſome thing may be eſtabliſhed in our church / not commaunded in the ſcripture / alledgeth a rule that belongeth not vntounto vsus. Then it is manifeſt / howe helpeles a ſhift this is / conſidering that the rule is generall / and as generally gyuen / as any other the rules / which the A. comendeth vntounto vsus / out off Auguſtine. Beſide that I alledged / that euen in Auguſt. time / yt was wicked to giuegive any ſuch autoritie / to the decree / or cuſtome of men / as not to enquire into yt: which becauſe he durſt not denie / he left vnanſwered. And whereas he addeth / if it be not repugnant to the word: I ſhewed that Auguſtine / could hauehave no ſuche meaning: which althoughe he confeſſe in one word / contrary to that which he ſet downe: yet in the ſame page (leſt the truthe ſhould get any victorie at his handes) he dooth in effect denie yt. For he ſaithe / that Aug. hath ſondry times in ſuche rules, made this exception, iff they be not againſt faith, &c. Where yt is manifeſt / that this exception is of thoſe rules / which are diuerſly obſerued / and which he openly oppoſeth / vntounto this rule / and ſuche as this is / off the neceſſary obſeruacion off thinges.

The place vntounto the Gall. was needefully oppoſed. For if ….there be commandementes off the Apoſtells vntounto the churches / and thinges which yt is madnes not to kepe / or to enquire into / not writen: there ys ſomething neceſſary to ſaluacion / which S. Paul preached not: conſidering / that the whole ſumme off his preaching / is cowched in writing.

The place off Auguſtine / off abrogating ceremonies otherwiſe indifferent / he anſwereth / was not for his pourpoſe. Howbeyt / p. XCIof his pourpoſe had bene / to hauehave boulted owt the truthe: yt … cleare / that hauing this cawſe in hand whether ceremonies in them ſelues indifferent / owght to be remoued: he would not hauehave diſſembled yt. As for that he chargeth me / with leuing owt off thinges before / in the middeſt / and after / and thereof hath almoſte fylled a whole ſyde: it is vtterly vnworthy any anſwere / conſidering that I hauehave left nothing owt / which is in controuerſie / nothing which I doo not willingly confeſſe / nothing that he hathe any aduantage by: yea I left that owt / whereby I could hauehave taken aduantage. For beſide that the ceremonies with vsus are in greater nomber / then Auguſt. alloweth / all men ſee / that they are more vrged / and the omitting off them ſeuerelier puniſhed / then the breache off the commaundementes off God: in which caſe he will hauehave them abrogated. For he ſcapeth far better / which hath not preached a whole halfe yeare in his church / then which preaching eueryevery weeke twiſe / leueth off his ſurplis once. And yt is better with him / whoſe whole liffe / then whoſe capp is owt off ſquare: vvhichwhich is ennemie off the croſſe off Chriſte / then which can not abyde the croſſe in baptiſme: with thoſe which leaue owt ſome ceremonie / in burying the bodyes off the dead / then vvith thoſe vvhichwhich murder the ſoules off the liuing. All which thinges / the place of Auguſtine giuing me occaſion off. I notwithſtanding for ſhortnes ſake / paſſed by.

The Anſwer to the laſte place off Aug. was needeles / being the ſame with the third / vvhichwhich I ſubſcribed vntounto. The anſwer to your concluſion / had bene ſuperfluous: I hauing before declared / vvherein I agree vvith yowe / ād vvherein I withſtand yow. And vvhereas I laye to his charge / that he fetcheth rules ovvt off the vvritinges of mē, to ſquare the Ceremonies by, vvhichwhich he might hauehave had in the vvord of god, here certeine, ād altogether true, vvhichwhich are there vncerteine, ād in part vntrue: he anſwereth / that he browght thē not for that pourpoſe. wherein / beſide that he calleth thē rules / his anſwer is directly againſt that / which he hath ſet downe. For he (chap. 1. diuiſion 9. pag. 94.) making his beginning off the ſentence off Saint Paul / which he ſaithe is a rule for the church / to examine her ceremonies by purſueth the ſelfe ſame point p. XCIIvntounto this place. And where he ſaithe / they are meete for a Diuine to know: yt is no anſwer / conſidering that yt may be profitable / for a Diuine to know many thinges / which yt is daungerous to propound vntounto the church / muche more to propound them / as rules to grownd the churches lawes vppon.

In the next diuiſion / there is nothing to be anſwered / or which hath not bene anſwered before. In the next / where he ſaithe / that the priuate ſentences off men in their Epiſtels of theſe pointes, are off more credite, then that which they hauehave publiſhed vntounto the whole world: yt is a ſaying / meet for ſuch a cawſe as he defendeth. For all vnderſtand / that men be more ſoudeine in letters to their freindes / then in their bookes: and that they burne more candell / and make the file off their Iudgement / and vnderſtanding paſſe oftener vppon thoſe writinges / which they will ſubmit to the Iudgement off all men / then to the iudgement off one: vponupon thoſe / which they knowe ſhall come on the racke off their wrangling ennemies / then which ſhal finde reſt / in the boſome of an eaſie ād frendly interpretation: vponupon thoſe / which they thincke ſhall remaine vntounto all poſteritie / then which they thincke ſhall dye / at the leaſt with him to whom they wrote. And therefore iff there were occaſions / to moue them to ſpeake otherwiſe in their publike writinges / then in their priuate: yet that turneth all to the aduantage off thoſe / which alledge that which was ſpoken vppon the howſe toppe: rather then off thoſe / which preſſe that was rounded in the eare off one man. Yf their priuate writinges / varie not from their publike / yt is ſo muche better for vsus: which are well aſſured / that the publike we hauehave alledged / ſtand off our ſyde.

Where I ſuppoſe him / to attribute the order off church matters / vntounto the Biſhoppes / which he parteth with the prince / and other wiſe men (albeit yt will appeare / that he ſhutteth owt diuers / which hauehave intereſt in that conſultation:) yet he might hauehave ſome cawſe to complaine in that behalfe / and yt was I confeſſe / my ouerſight.

VntoUnto the two next diuiſions / pag. 117 / &c. Where I hauehave ſhewed the places off Deut. 4. 12. are ſtill in force / againſt the error off the A. which (in ſaing / that in the time of the Iewes, and during that eſtate, yt was not lawefull to adde any thing, &c.) gyueth to vnderſtand / that p. XCIIIwe are not ſo ſtreightly bound vntounto yt at this tyme: he anſwereth / that he applied that rule, vntounto the lawe off faithe, and manners▪ but he ſhoulde hauehave vnderſtanded / that in reſtraining the rule after that ſorte / therby ſhutting owt the lawes off making orders / and ceremonies off the church: he ſtill falleth into that fault / whereoff he is accuſed. For hauing ſhewed / that not onelyonly in thinges which he calleth matters off faithe / and manners / but euen in the variable Ceremonies off the church / there ys a worde off God: yt is alſo true / that he is accurſed, which in making orders off the church / foloweth not the rule off the lawes off God / prouided in that behalfe. And I hauing ſhewed / that the Iewes them ſelues had certen Eccleſiaſticall Ceremonies in mariadge / buriall / &c. which are not expreſſly commanded vntounto them: yf they (as he confeſſeth) had addreſſe owt off the word off God / for all their lawes off what ſorte ſoeuer and this curſe fell off them / if in their variable lawes they ether added or diminiſhed from the word of God: yt muſte needes folowe / that the Chriſtians nowe in their variable lawes / bothe hauehave a word to direct them / and a curſe for either adding / or diminiſhing from that word. Onles he will ſaie / that the Chriſtians / in thinges which were a like left vntounto the libertie off them / and the Iewes / are les bownd to folowe the preſcript off the worde off God / then were the Iewes: which ys abſurd.

In the places owt off Ieremy / and Iſay / yt is euident / that there is ſet forthe / howe there ſhalbe greater knowledge off the will off god / vnderunder the Goſpell / then vnderunder the Lawe. And euen that which I hauehave ſet downe / off the people which ſhould be as learned vnderunder the Goſpell / as the Leuites / and Prieſtes vnderunder the lawe: beſide that yt conteineth a manifeſt truthe, and therfore can not be to flatter the people (as he ſurmiſeth): may be alſo gathered off the 5. verſe off the 56. chap. off Iſaie. Where the Lord / promiſing to bring the Gentils into a better place of his temple / then the Iewes had before / dothe not obſcurely declare / that which I ſaide.

VntoUnto the twoo next diuiſions pag 118 / &c. for replie I ſaie / that he anſwereth not to the matter. For the queſtiō is not / whether we hauehave fewer or moe lawes then they / but whether we hauehave direction by thoſe lawes which we hauehave / to all thinges whatſoeuer p. XCIIIIbelongeth vntounto vsus to doo / as they had to doo that / which apperteined vntounto them. To proue that there is a word off God / for all thinges vve hauehave to doo: I alledged / that othervviſe our eſtate ſhould be vvorſe, thē the eſtate of the levves: Which the Anſ. confeſſeth to hauehave had directiō, owte of lawe, in the leſte thing they had to doo. And when yt is the vertue off a good lawe / to leaue as litle vndetermined / and withowte the compaſſe off the law / as can be: the A. in imagining / that vve hauehave no word for diuers thinges / wherein the Iewes had particular direction: preſuppoſeth gteater perfection in the lawe / gyuen vntounto the Iewes / then in that vvhichwhich is left vntounto vsus. And that this is a principal vertue off the lawe / may be ſeen / not onelyonly by that I hauehave ſhewed / that a conſcience well inſtructed / and towched with the feare off God / ſeeketh for the light off the word off God / in the ſmalleſt actions: but euen by common reaſon / the maſters whereoff giuegive this rule / foreign, that is to ſaie / that yt greatly Ariſtot. ad Theode.behoueth thoſe lavves, vvhichwhich are vvell made (as muche as can be) to determine of all thinges, and to leaue as fevve thinges as may be to the diſcretion off the iudges. Where he ſaithe / that the examples I browght off orders / vvhichwhich the Iewes did vvell obſerue / vvhereoff there was no expreſſe mention in the lawe off God / make not to the pourpoſe, for that, he ſpake off ceremonies, vſed abowt the worſhip off God: I anſwer / that that vvhichwhich I hauehave alledged is a manifeſt confutation off thoſe wordes / which he hathe ſet downe / nether was ther the leaſt thing, to be doon in the church, omitted in the lawe. For are not theſe thinges / vvhichwhich I browght example off / to be doon in the church: are they not Eccleſiaſticall orders: yea are not part off them (which he denieth) perteining to the ſeruice off God? Yf theſe orders / off the howre for the morning / and afternoone ſacrifice / off preaching the vvord off God in a place vvhere yt may be beſt hard / off faſting for the better humbling off the people before the lord in praier / be not orders / and Ceremonies perteining to the worſhipp off God: then the daylie ſacrifices / preaching the vvord off God / and calling vppon his name / (vvhereunto theſe belonged) are no partes off the worſhipp off God: then the vvhichwhich there is nothing more abſurde. And verily this is not / by iugling / or ſleight off hand / to deceiue the p. XCVeyes off the reader: but by flat facing / to endenour to make hym tourne them from the truthe. That vvhichwhich I ſaid / off the Iewes Eccleſiaſticall gouernement / by the morall and Ceremoniall lawe onelyonly / and not by the iudiciall: (as that vvhichwhich may be caſt downe with reaſons owt off the vvord of God / vvhichwhich is here onelyonly doon by autoritie of men) I am vvell content it fall. So that I hauehave no fault to finde vvith the Anſ. in this behalfe / but that the vveapon he ſtrooke this vvith all / vvas not ſharp enoughe.

Diuiſion 5. pag. 120 &c. Of the nomber off thinges / vvhichwhich the Iewes had not particulerly decided by the lawe / the reaſon is apparant / vvhichwhich I hauehave aſſigned: that this hyndereth not / but that there is a vvord / and generall commandement to direct them by / hath bene ſhewed: that it is a vaine cauill / that maketh doubt / whether in ſaying / that vve hauehave the ſame lavves to direct vsus in the ſeruice off God, vvhichwhich the Ievves had, I meane the Ceremoniall lawe, or no, appeareth by that / vvhichwhich I ſet downe (in the third diuiſion. p. 118.) vvhere / I receiuing the morall lawe / for our direction / left the Ceremoniall. and of the ſame ſort is that vvhichwhich he vvrangleth in / becawſe I ſaie / the nevve Teſtament is a noble addition vntounto the ould: conſidering that I adding vvherein / namely that it maketh the ould more manifeſt, and bringeth greater light: ſhut owt all / euen the leaſt occaſion off ſuche trifling. And VponUpon 2. Tim. 3.2 Tim 3this maner of ſpeach that I hauehave vſed / Maiſter Caluin vvhichwhich is here oppoſed / hath him ſelff vſed. Where he calleth in this reſpect / the goſpell an addition vntounto the lavve. yt remaineth to ſee / vvhether in the matter off the iudiciall lawe / that vvhichwhich I hauehave ſet downe be ſtraunge / and daungerous (as the A. ſurmiſeth) or no.

It is not (as the A. ſurmiſeth vntruly) that the magiſtrate is ſimply bound vntounto the iudicial lawes off Moſes: but that he is bound to the equitie / which I alſo called the ſubſtance / and marrowe off them. In regard off vvhichwhich equitie / I affirmed that there are certen lawes amongeſt the Iudicialles / which can not be chaunged. And hereof I gaue example / in the lawes vvhichwhich command / that a ſtubbern Idolater / blaſphemer / murtherer / inceſtuous perſon / and ſuche like / ſhould be put to death. For the firſt point / that the equitie of the iudicialls doth remaine / ād therfore owght to be a rule / to Cal. Inſtitu. 4. cha.direct al lawes by / to let paſſe the autoritie of M. Caluin / M. Beza / p. XCVIand other writers off our time / that hauehave writen with any iudgement off this matter (which doo in plaine wordes affirme that 20. ſ. 15. Bez. in his booke of putting Here. to death.there is a perpetuall equitie in them / and that our lawes albeit they differ in forme / yet owght to reteine the reaſon / or ground of them) I ſaie to let that paſſe: yt is to be conſidered / that all theſe lawes morall / Ceremoniall / and Iudiciall being the lawes off God / and by his reueled will eſtabliſhed / muſt ſo far forth remaine / as yt appeareth not by his will / that they are reuoked.

And ſeing that the alteration which is come in this behalfe / is by the comming off our Sauiour Chriſt onelyonly: yt is to be inquired / what thoſe lawes are / which he put end vntounto. Which thing may be conſidered / in that diuiſion which Saint Paul vſeth / where he ſaith / that our Sa. Chriſt came / to make peace / firſt betwene God and men / and then betwene men and men: that is to ſay / betwene Epheſ, 2.the Iewes / and Gentils. The Ceremoniall lawe therefore / beinge a lawe of enimitie (which as a wall held owt the Gentils / from ioyning them ſelues vntounto the Iewes) was neceſſary amongeſt other cawſes / in this reſpect / to be taken away. The curſe off the lawe / for the breache of any the lawes of god / ether perteining to the Iewes in tymes paſt or vntounto vsus nowe / being that which maketh the wall betwene the Lord and vsus: was for our reconciliation with his maieſtie / neceſſarily to be remoued. Wherevppon followeth / firſt that the morall lawe (as that which nether hindereth our reconciliation with the Lord / not our good agreement with men) is in as full ſtrenght as euer it was before the comming of our Sauiour Chriſt. For the curſe off the lawe / beſide that it is in regard off the elect / rather fulfilled / and executed in the perſone off our Sa. Chriſt / then abrogated: beſide that alſo / yt hath a neceſſary vſe as yet towardes the elect / not onelyonly to driue them to the faith which is in Chriſt Ieſus / but alſo to kepe vnderunder the remantes of rebellion / euen of them which hauehave already beleued: and beſide that the force thereoff / is daily / ād ſhalbe for euer / execured vponupon the wicked: beſide all this / ſeing this curſe was annexed / not onelyonly to the breache off the morall lawe / but alſo off the Ceremoniall / and Iudiciall: there is no iuſte cauſe why the morall lawe ſhould be ſayde to be abrogated. At the leaſt / it can not ſtand (which the Anſ. hathe very daungerouſly ſet downe) that the whole lawe off god generally is abrogated. For if a man will make the curſe a p. XCVIIpart of all the morall lawe / wher yt is rather a neceſſary adioinct / vntounto the breache of the lawe / then a part therof: yet notwithſtanding / that part off the morall lawe which ſtandeth in commaunding and forbidding / remaineth vnſhaken / and as concerning abrogation / vntowched off our Sa. Chriſt.

Secondly / it foloweth hereuppon / that thoſe iudiciall lawes off Moſes / which are merely politik / and withowt all mixture off Ceremonies / muſt remaine / as thoſe which hinder not / the atonement off the Iewes / and Gentils with God / or off one off them / with an other. Beſide that / it being manifeſt / that our Sa Chriſt came not / to diſſolue any Good gouernement off commen wealthe: he can leaſt off all be thowght / to hauehave comme to diſſolue that which him ſelffe had eſtabliſhed. And off this point / the Anſ. hath twoo contrary ſentences: one off Muſculus / which ſaith / that the iudiciall lavve is abrogated, the other off Beza / which is the ſame with that which I hauehave brought reaſons off: that is to ſay / that the iudiciall lavve being giuen vntounto the Ievves, is not Beza in his former booke.yet abrogated, ſo that iff they had any eſtate off common vvealthe, in the Land off Canaan, they ſhould be conſtreined, to vſe that forme off gouernemēt, vvhichwhich vvas gyuē vntounto them of Moſes. Nowe albeit thoſe lawes / gyuen vntounto the Iewes for that land doo not binde the Gentils in other landes / for ſomuche as the diuerſitie off the diſpoſition of the people / and ſtate off that country gaue occaſion off ſome lawes there / which would not hauehave bene in other places / and peoples: yet forſomuche as / there ys in thoſe lawes a conſtant / and euerlaſting equitie / whereuppon they were grounded / and the ſame perfecter / and farther from error / then the forge off mans reaſon / (vvhichwhich is euen in this behalffe / ſhrewdly vvounded) is able to deuiſe: yt followeth / that euē in making politike lawes / for the common wealth / Chriſtian Magiſtraites owght to propound vntounto them ſelues thoſe lawes / and in light of their equitie / by a iuſt proportion off circunſtances off perſon / place / &c. frame them.

Furthermore / that this equitie off the Iudiciall lawe / remaineth not as a counſaile / vvhichwhich men may followe yf they liſt / and leaue at their pleaſure / but as a lawe / vvhereunto they be p. XCVIIIbound: what better proofe can we hauehave / then the Apoſtle? Which after he had alledged diuers ſimilitudes / fetched off the common 1. Cor. 9.1 Cor 9vſe off men / to proue that a Miniſter off the Goſpell / ought to be mainteined off the churches chardge / vntounto the aduerſarie / which might except / that thoſe were but humane reaſons: he alledgeth / as the eternall lawe off God / one off the Iudiciall lawes Deu. 25. 4.Deut 25:4off Moſes / which was / that a man ſhould not mouſell the mouthe, of the oxe vvhichwhich tredeth ovvt the corne. Where it is manifeſt that he doubteth not / to binde the cōſcience off the Corinthes / 1. Cor. 9.1 Cor 9vntounto the equitie off that lawe / which was Iudiciall. Likewiſe / of the finding off the prieſtes / in the ſeruice off the altar / commaunded in the lawe: he concludeth / that thoſe which preache the goſpell / ſhould liue off it. And this maintenance off the preiſtes / albeit in the maner off prouiſion / yt was ceremoniall: yet as it was a reward of their ſeruice / due by men (as the puniſhementes alſo / iff they had failed in their duties) was mere iudiciall. Whereuppon it is brought to paſſe / that in thoſe iudicialls / to all the circumſtances whereoff we are not bound: we are notwithſtanding bound to the equitie.

Yt remaineth to ſhewe / that there are certein Iudiciall lawes / which can not be chaunged / as that a blaſphemer / contemptuous / and ſtubborne Idolater / &c. ought to be put to death. The doctrine which leueth this at libertie / when they can alledge no cauſe off this looſenes / but the comming off our Sauiour Chriſt / and his paſſion / faulteth many wayes. And firſt / yt is a childiſhe error / to thincke that our Sauiour Chriſte came downe / to exempt men from corporall death / which the lawe caſteth vppon euill doers: when as he came not to deliuer from death / which is the parting off the bodie from the ſoule / but from that which is the ſeparation bothe off bodie / and ſoule / from the gratious preſence off the lord. And iff it were ſo / that our Sa. Chriſte had borne in his owne bodie / this ciuill puniſhement off publike offenders: yt muſt folowe thereupon / not (which the Doctor Phanſieth) that it is in the libertie off the Magiſtrate, to put them to death: but that he muſt / will hee / nill he (yff they repent) kepe them aliue. For if our Sa. Chriſte hath anſwered that iuſtice off God in his lawe / whereby he hath commaunded / that ſuche malefactors p. XCIXſhould be put to death: yt ſhould be great iniuſtice / to require that againe / in the life off the offender. So that ether our Sa. Chriſte / hath anſwered that iuſtice off God / which he requireth in his lawe / concerning the death of ſuche offenders / and then yt can not be aſked againe / in the bodie of the offender: or els he hath not anſwered yt / and then yt remaineth of neceſſitie / to be anſwered in the life off the offender.

Againe / this opinion ys iniurious vntounto the death / and whole appearing / off the ſonne of God in fleſhe. For where he appepeared for this cauſe / that he might deſtroy ſinne / which is the 1. Iohn ….worck off the Deuill: the Anſwerer in his imagination of choiſe / which he leueth to the Magiſtrate / towching the putting of ſuche horrible offēders to death / doth at vnawares as muche as in him lieth / make our Sa. Chriſte build againe that kingdome of ſinne / which he hath deſtroyed. For when bothe in common reaſon / and by the manifeſt word off God before alledged / the Lord giueth Deut. 19.Deut 19this bleſſing vntounto the puniſhement of ſuche greiuous offenders by death / that others not onelyonly which ſee / but alſo which heare off them / hauehave the bridell off feare put vppon them / whereby they are withholden from the like crimes: yt muſt nedes followe that whoſoeuer maketh our Sauiour Chriſt / autor of this looſenes / in puniſhing ſuche offenders: maketh him forthwith / to loſe the bridell / whereby others are ſtaied / from throwing them ſelues downe the hill off wickednes / which was before committed. And what is / if this be not / to make our ſauiour Chriſte / a troubler off common wealthes?

Moreouer if our Sa. Chriſte by his comming / looſed thes cyuill puniſhementes / and pourchaſed this grace off his Father / for blaſphemers / &c. that if they could finde fauour in the eies off the Magiſtrate / they might eſcape the handes off death / which the lawe off God adiudged them vntounto: howe cometh it to paſſe / that the Apoſtels / to whom the Lord committed the publiſhing off all that pardon / which he obteined for vsus / did neuer make mention off the ſlacking of theſe puniſhements? Yf our Sa. Chriſte / had obteined this libertye / yt was worthye the preachyng. p. CAnd therfore onles the A. can ſhew ſomething / owt off the vvrytinges off the Apoſtels / to vvarrant this ſanctuarye / vvhichwhich he would ſo faine build to the ſupport off blaſphemers / murtherers / &c. yt followeth / that the Apoſtles (by his ſaying) hauehave not anſwered the truſt committed vntounto them. But if all godlie mindes doo abhor theſe abſurdities / there is no cauſe / vvhy they ſhould like of this corruption off the Doctor / vvhereupon all theſe depende. Na / in that the Apoſtell putteth a ſword in the hande off 13. Rom.the Magiſtrates / and in the vſe off it maketh him a Miniſter / and ſeruant off the vengeance and iuſtice off the Lord againſt ſinne: he ſtriketh thorowe this opinion / which imagineth that our ſa. Chriſte / came to hange the ſword off the Lordes iuſtice / vponupon the pleaſure and vvill off men. For the Magiſtrate being the Lordes officer / as the Sheriff is the Magiſtrates: yt is no more in his choiſe / to vvithold the ſword / vvhichwhich the lord hath put in his hand to drawe: then in the power off the Sherif / to ſtaie the execution off that iudgement / vvhichwhich the magiſtrate him ſelfe hath lawefully commaunded. Nowe ſeing there is a ſword in the Magiſtrates hand / by the doctrine off the Apoſtels / and that alſo vvhichwhich the magiſtrate muſt of dutie draw: I vvould gladly knowe off the A. where that neceſſitie can be found / if it be not in theſe crimes of blaſphemy / &c. Which I hauehave ſet downe? And if he ſaie that S. Paul by the ſword / vnderſtandeth all manner off ciuill puniſhements / as vvel by the pourſe / as by other bodelie chaſtiſementes / vvhichwhich ſpare the life: I graunt it / but by an vſed maner off ſpeache / vvhichwhich noteth the vvhole by the part / he rather choſe to vtter thoſe puniſhemets by the ſword / thē ether by the vvhip / or by the pourſe. Wherby he did not onelyonly not exclude / this neceſſitie off puniſhing malefactors by death: but laied rather a ſtreighter bond vpō the magiſtrate / to execute thoſe / vvhichwhich committ thinges vvorthie of death. Hytherto generally / of putting thoſe to death / vvhichwhich commit thinges againſt the lawes remaining ſtill in force / as they vvere in times paſt eſtabliſhed off the lord / in the bloud off the tranſgreſſors.

Nowe I vvil come to the particular crimes / vvhichwhich I hauehave ſet downe. And firſt for the crime off adulterie / it is to be conſidered / that yt is a breach off the moſt holy / and auncient both inſtitution p. CI/ and ſolemne couenant off the Lord. Then / that it is an iniurie doon vntounto the innocent part / in the moſte pretious poſſeſſiō that can be / in thinges perteining to this preſent life / ioyned with diſhonour / caſte not onelyonly vpō the perſon / but vpō all his children / and in a maner of al thoſe which belōg vntounto hī. Thirdly / that this fire / doth not onelyonly vvaſte the familie vvhere yt is / but maketh a breach into the cōmon vvealth / vvhileſt the right of inheritance ether of landes / or offices / is oftētimes thus translated frō the true inheriters: vvhileſt the children vvhichwhich are ſo begotten / hauing oftentimes les care / and coſte beſtowed vppon them in their education / become hurtefull members off the common vvealth. Wherby all men may clearly ſee the perpetuall equitie off the lawe off God in the reuengement off this ſinne by death.

And vvhen the lord addeth this / for a reaſon off putting the adulterer to death / that the euill may be taken ovvt off Iſrael: Leuit. 19. 29.Lev 19:29vntounto the heape off incommodities before reherſed / for fault off exequuting his Iudgement off death / he threateneth the whole common vvealth / vvith miſcheif to fall vppon yt. And the equitie off this puniſhement by death / hath ſo ligthſome colours vponupon it / that euen in this glymmering ſight / vvhichwhich remaineth in the accurſed nature off men / it hath vpholden it ſelf againſt the ignorance / and iniuſtice off all vvhichwhich hauehave not vvillingly put forth / that ſparkle vvhichwhich ſtandeth in the diſcretion of honeſtie. For euen before this candell light of the lawe off God vvas ſet vp / not onelie the Godlie (as Iob) vvhichwhich vvere in ſome part reformed / of the Iob. 31. 11.Job 31:11Generall blindenes: but euen thoſe vvhichwhich vvere not of the church of god / as Abimelech the king of Gerar / ād the very Cananites (as longe as there vvas any ſtep off equitie amongeſt them) did ſee Gen. 26. 11. Gen. 38. 24.Gen 26:11Gen 38:24that the filth off this ſinne vvas ſuch / as ought to be vvaſhed away vvith the bloud of the offenders. For vnhereas Iſaac feared the aſſault / both of his life / ād of the chaſtitie of Rebecka: the king ordeined / that vvhoſoeuer ether laide violent hand of him / or had to doo vvith his wife / ſhould dye. And in that Iuda / called for Thamar / to be led forth to death in the land off Canaan / vvhere him ſelfe vvas but a priuate man / for that ſhe being made ſure vntounto a houſband / plaide the harlot: he gaue to vnderſtand / that the Cananites / vvhichwhich had euen then filled a Good part off that p. CIImeaſure off ſinne / vntounto the brincke whereoff they came afterward / did notwithſtanding pourſne adulterers vntounto death.

And when the Lord did afterward gyue teſtimonie vntounto this puniſhement / by the expreſſe wordes of his lawe: yt is manifeſt / that the lawe which God hath written / in the table off the hartes of all men / pronounceth the ſentence off death agaynſt adulterers. So that onles men / will like Gyantes fight agaynſt the light of nature / or ſaye that our Sa. Chriſte / came to aboliſhe that which in all times / and with all nations (not alltogether ſpoiled off the diſcretion off honeſtie / and diſhoneſtie) was obſerued: yt foloweth / that the puniſhement off death againſt adulterers / and conſequently muche more againſt inceſtuous meetinges / ſtandeth in as full force nowe / as euer yt did / before the cōming of our Sa. Chriſte. And when as adulterie being the leaſt off thoſe faultes which I hauehave ſet downe / is found worthy of death. Yt is eaſye to ſee / what is the iudgement off the reſte.

Howbeit hauing ſpoken ſomewhat before / off the ciuill puniſhement off thoſe which offend againſt the ſeruice off God / and more being to be ſaide vppon occaſion afterward: that the neceſſary puniſhement off murtherers by death / may hauehave with the reſt ſome particular defence / let ſome thing be ſaid thereoff. Firſte the conſent off all nations (were they neuer ſo ſauage) in puniſhing this ſinne with death / teacheth that yt is the lawe of nature: which can not be broken / nor diſpenſed with. yt is further to be noted / that the cauſes remaining / whereupon that neceſſitie off puniſhement by death / was grownded in the lawe: the puniſhement muſt ſtill remaine. The Lord ſheweth theſe cauſes / Nomb. 35 33. 34.of not ſauing the life off a murtherer at any hand / firſt becauſe the bloud vvhichwhich his hand hath ſhed, poluteth the land, ſo that there can be no purgation off yt, but in the bloud off the murtherer: ſecōdly / becauſe the Iſraelites, / whiche were the people of God) ād thirdly / becauſe the lord him ſelfe, had his abode there. cōſidering firſt / that the ſtrenght of this ſin̄e in polluting a land / is as great as euer it was (onles for grace / giuen to one murtherer / men will / call the wrath off God / vppon a whole people:) the neceſſitie off putting murtherers to death remaineth vnſhaken. Then / foraſmuch as Chriſtian cōmon wealthes / are the people off God / amongeſt whom he maketh ſpeciall reſidence: beſide the p. CIIIcommon obligation / whereby all men are bound in the lawe of nature / to puniſhe a murtherer by death: Chriſtian common wealthes / hauehave two newe bondes / whereby they are tied to a more ſtreighter obſeruation / of this ſeueritie. Laſt of al / as this iudiciall lawe was giuen of God long before Moſes: ſo not to be in the Gen. ….nomber off lawes / corrected by the comming of our Sa. Chriſt: yt is manifeſt by his owne wordes / whereby he confirmed this lawe of God / ſaying / that vvhoſoeuer tooke vpp the ſvvord ſhould Math. 26:Matt 26periſhe vvith the ſvvord. And there is no doubt / but if he had had like occaſion / to ſpeake of other ciuil puniſhement by death / eſtabliſhed in the lawe / as he had of this / he would hauehave brought the ſame confirmation of them / that he did off this.

The exceptions againſt this doctrine / are off no valwe. For if this be the truth of God / there can be no prerogatiue againſt yt: onles he can ſhewe / ſome higher court then heauen / and ſome cheif iuſtice aboue the Lord, yt is not denied / but the puniſhementes by death / wherewith men hauehave eſtabliſhed lawes / which them ſelues hauehave for their better commoditie deuiſed / may be ether mitigated or taken away / by thoſe to whom it apperteined / nether is the magiſtrate / by any thing I hauehave ſet downe / bound to mitigate the puniſhement of theeues. for their puniſhement may growe / by the circumſtance of place / as in Scithia / where all thinges lying opē to the ſpoile / had neede to belocked vp by a ſtreighter puniſhemēt: and ſome times / by the diſpoſition of the people / lighter handed then others / as if one had to doo with the Lacedemoniēs / or ſome other nation / in whom that ſinne had taken deeper roote. And I will not denie▪ but euen theſe crimes of murther / and adulterie / may varie by diuers circumſtances: and therefore yt is in the diſcretiō of the magiſtrate / according to the quantitie of the fault / to appoint the maner of death / ſharper or ſofter. But that there is any place / time / or other circumſtance / which can leſſen theſe crimes / that they ſhould not be worthie of death: vponupon the reaſons before alledged / I vtterly denie.

As for the caſting away / of the ſtudie / and large volumes of the lawe / which he imagineth to followe of this aſſertion: he deceiueth hym ſelfe. For euen when theſe lawes were fully in force / the Iudges thereoff (by reaſon of their ſhortnes / comprehending many thinges not expreſſed) had matter enoughe to occupie the p. CIIIIgreateſt diligence / memorie and ſharpnes of vvit / that could fall into any. And if he aſke our lawiers / vppon vvhat groundes the greateſt part off their houge volumes (as he calleth them) ſtand they will anſwer him / they partly ſtand vppon the plaine vvordes off the lawe off Moſes / and partly off reaſon vncorrupt / which is the equitie off the lawe vrged off vsus. And therfore althoughe our lawes / be ſome time in forme diuerſe / from the lawes off Moſes: yet they vvill neuer graunt him (which he hath / not ſo aduiſely ſet downe) that our healthſome lawes, be contrarie to Moſes lawes. For both being Good / one off them can not be contrarie to the other. where he ſaith / that we of the clergie, ſhould be the beſt iudges by this meanes, &c. it is to open iniurie / to charge vsus with that / vvhichwhich vve openly renounce / and condemne in him: vvhichwhich is / that in medling in ciuill affaires / they put their ſickle in an other mans harueſt. Notwitſtanding if in eſtabliſhing of lawes / for the Godly / and peaceable gouernement off the common welth / there may be no aſſiſtance of the miniſterie / wherby the lawes ſhould be the better cōpaſſed / to the equitie preſcribed in the word of God / and to take heede that nothing be doon againſt it: there is no iuſt cawſe / to vphold the Biſhops preſence in the Parlament howſe. Where he ſaith / that the lawes which our ſa. Chriſte made Mat. 5. 19▪ towching diuorcement for adulterie, had been to no pourpoſe, if the adulterer ſhould off neceſsitie be put to death: firſt / he may be here iuſtly charged with that he hath vntruly ſurmiſed off me / becauſe he bringeth in our ſa. Chriſte / a maker off lawes vnderunder the goſpell, whereas he made none in thoſe places / but expounded the lawe of God / vvhichwhich he had made from the beginning. The other refuſals made by the Iewes off their wiues / were neuer any lawes / but permiſſions onelyonly: and therefore in there aboliſhement / there was no lawe of God abrogated. Secondly / yt was neceſſarie to vſe that expoſition / notwithſtanding that the puniſhement of the lawe by death remained. For beſide that the Iewes / being vnderunder the gouernement off the Romanes had thoſe ciuill puniſhements by death / ſuſpended vponupon Iohn 18. 31.John 18:31the pleaſure off their officers / which were often corrupted: our ſa. Chriſte (forſeing all thinges) did forſee / what looſenes would followe in this behalfe. And therfore as the office off a Good Doctor required / he inſtructed the conſcience / and taught / p. CVthat albeit the Magiſtrate failed / in the execution of the lawe / yet that the former yoke being broken / men were at their libertie / to enter into a newe contract of mariadge with other. Whereby he met with the corrupt opinion off thoſe / which dreame that the knot of mariadge / is not cut a ſunder by adulterie / durīg the life of the parties maried. Of the autorities which are brought / to proue that the puniſhements by death off the lawe off God / are taken away there is not one onelyonly / but Cyrill / which maketh agaynſt this cauſe / yea which doth not ether in part / or alltogether / ouerturne his aſſertion.

And as for Cyrill / I can at no hand allowe: the reaſon ſhall appeeare / where the clawes of this ſentence are more plainly ſeen. Auguſtine in the place cited vntounto Pollentius / hath nothing for the Doctor. For he ſetteth him ſelfe to proue vppon the place off S. Iohn / that the howſband ought to forgiue his wife / ſeing our ſa. Chriſte forgaue the adultereſſe. Wherin / not to enter into queſtion / whether that be well reaſoned of Auguſtine / or no / and to paſſe by the aduantage / which Eraſmus autoritie may giuegive / which calleth that ſentence off Auguſt. a hard ſentence: I anſwer / that yt is one thing to ſay / a priuate man ſhould forgiue his iuiuries, foreign.and nother thing to ſay / that the Magiſtrate is not bound to take aduengement of them. A priuate man / may with commendation forgyue the treſpace agaynſt him ſelfe / where the magiſtrate ſhalbe in great fault / if he pourſew not yt. And iff that place of Auguſt. perteine vntounto the Magiſtrate / and our Sa. Chriſtes example proue / that the Magiſtrate neede not puniſhe adultery by death: yt proueth as well / that he neede not puniſhe adulterie at all. For bothe our Sa. Chriſte / forgaue her f…ely / and gaue no ſentence of any ciuill puniſhement againſt …r and Augu will hauehave the howſband / freely forgiue his adulterous wife Nay the place off Auguſtine maketh againſt him. for …n that he exhorteth the howſbād / to ſpare the bloud or life of his wife / yt appeareth / that in the church of God / in his times / this crime of adulterie was puniſhed by death.

Muſculus / albeit his maner off ſpeache (in ſaying that all Moſes is abrogated) be hard: yet I would firſt aſke hym / what p. CVIaduantage he can take here / for the abrogation off the Iudiciall / which is not the ſame againſt the Morall. Then let it be obſerued / howe far againſt the meaning of the autor / the Anſ. hath wrong this ſentence and howe he is but a ſnatcher at ſillabels / and a tearer of lerned mennes wordes from their meaning. The meaning off Muſculus was / that theſe lawes abrogated as they were giuē by Moſes / remaine notwithſtāding as they cōteined a perpetual equitie. For in the ſame title off lawes he writeth thus. There are In thē c. of puniſ. of forbidden luſt.(ſaith he) vvhichwhich thinck, that Chriſte did abrogate the puniſhement, preſcribed by the lavve againſt adulterers, vvhen he ſaide, nether doo I condemne the, goo and ſinne no more. Theſe be gaie fellovves, they thinke not of this, that our Sa. Chriſte came into the vvorld, not to iudge, or puniſhe, but to ſaue ſinners: and yet in the meane ſeaſon, not to take avvay the puniſhementes of the lavve, gyuen of God his father, by Moſes. VVhereupon he ſayde not ſymply, I condemne the not, or thovv oughteſt not to be condemned off any, &c. And ſo ſheweth / howe if ſhe had bene condemned / according to the ſentence off the lawe: that the Lord would not hauehave ſaide againſt yt.

The like truſt he hath vſed / in alledging off M. Caluin. Which albeit he ſaie / that there be certen Iudicialls / to the preciſe obſeruation whereoff the magiſtrate is not bound (which I did likewiſe ſet downe) yet that he eſteemed certen Iudicialls vnchangeable / and thoſe eſpecially which I hauehave alledged: it may appeare / in that he calleth it the Popiſhe diuinitie, that the ſentence In his com. vpp Iohn. Har. in Mo. ſuper iudic. 7. mandati.off our Sau. Chriſte / in the eight off Iohn / brought any grace to adulterers / as towching the ciuill puniſhemēt. And in an other place he ſaithe / that yt is the common right, or lavve of all natiōs, that adulterers ſhould be put to death which he affirmmeh alſo of murtherers / in the place ſet downe by the D.) and that yt is a ſortiſhe imitation off our Sauiour, and proceding from a groſſe ignorance: VnderUnder colour off the place in S. Iohn / s. to releaſe the puniſhement of adulterers / preſcribed in the lawe. And in an other place / ſpeaking off the falſe Prophet / which tourning Har. in c. 13. v. 5: Deut.away the people from God / is commanded to be put to death) p. CVIIhe ſaithe / that lavve is euerlaſting, apperteining as well vntounto vsus nowe / as vntounto the Iewes in times paſt: and pincheth them which ſay otherwiſe.

As for M. Beza / which is here brought / yt is knowne / that euen in the ſame booke / owt of which theſe teſtimonies be cited off the Anſ. he proueth / that heretikes owght by vertue off the lawe off God gyuen by Moſes to be put to death. Whereby appeareth / that all theſe will hauehave certen Iudicialls / off moſes / and thoſe eſpecially that giuegive ſentence off death / againſt the crimes which I ſetdowne / to be ſtill in as full force as euer they were. VntoUnto whom I could adde Peter Martyr / which hath a longe diſpute off the neceſſarie obſeruation / off the puniſhement off the lawe againſt adulterers. And as for Hemingius / conſidering that he agreeth / that ſo much remaineth off neceſſitie / as perteineth to the lawes of nature: he maketh nothing againſt me which both hauehave ſhewed / and further am readie to ſhewe: that all thoſe crimes are off that kinde / which by the lawe off nature / ought to receiue the reward of death. Howe for ſo much as the 8. Diuiſion off the 2. cha. in the 3. Tract. perteineth vntounto this matter: I will here ſet downe the anſwer off yt.

8. Diuiſton. pa. 149.

Here is to encounter withe Zacharie the Prophet / Cyrill / and ſuche a corrupte ſentence off Cyrill / as doothe at once / bothe ouerthrowe vnderunder the lawe / the iuſtice of God againſte ſynne / in the worlde to comme: and vnderunder the Goſpell / all manner off corporall puniſhementes in this worlde / to be executed by men / vppon thoſe whiche hauinge done euill / repente them. For yt dothe not onelye affirme / but yt goethe a bowte to proue: that the ſynne whiche was vnderunder the lawe puniſhed by corporal deathe / coulde not be puniſhed off the lorde / by eternall deathe / which as it is a wicked error (the rewarde off ſynne beinge not onelyonly deathe off Rom. 6.Rom 6the body / but off the ſowle alſo:) ſo the two pillers wheroff yt ſtandethe / are as deteſtable.

For the firſte / whiche is / that they hauehave ſuffred puniſhemente fo their ſynnes, and receiued the revvarde off their vvickednes, ſo that for that faulte vvhiche they ſo ſuffer p. CVIIIfor, there can be no reuengement aftervvarde hange ouer their ſovvles: yt is no les deſpiteful to the iuſtice of god and iniurious to the deathe of Chriſte: then the popiſhe doctrine of ſupererogatiō. For if an adulterer by ſuffrīg deathe for his crime / hathe āſwered the iuſtice of god / ſo that the lorde for that faulte / can not take aduenge mente of his ſowle: when a man ſuffrethe withowte cauſe and for righteouſnes ſake / howe owghte he not beſide his owne purgacion for ſynne / purchaſe ſomewhat for him that lackethe?

As for the other reaſon / yt is moſte falſe. For the lorde, puniſhe the one ſynne / by other ſynnes / by deathe in this worlde / and by deathe in the worlde to come, yt is alſo a falſe grounde off the Pelagian heretike / wherwithe he woulde proue / that our original corruption is no ſynne / whiche can deſerue the wrathe off God. And as the former parte fighte the for the Papiſtes / and for the Pelagians: ſo this other / ſtandethe for the Anabaptiſtes / men whom the aſwerer pretendethe / to hauehave war withe / but to whom in deede / he miniſtrethe weapons (ſuche as they be) to fighte againſte the trewthe. For yf this be not Anabaptiſticall / that there is no bodily puniſhemente laide vponupon publike offenders vnderunder the goſpell, and that whatſoeuer offence he committe, if he ſhewe tokens off repentance, he maye be deliuered from bodylie puniſhemente: I knowe not what is Anabaptiſme For what murtherer is there / what traitor / &c. whiche althoughe he be neuer ſo vnrepentante / and obſtinate in his ſynne hauinge hearde tell off the anſwerers gracious pardon / will not enforce himſelfe / to ſhewe all tokens off repentance? whiche if he doo / the eie off mens iudgemente beinge not hable to perce further / then to thes owtwarde ſignes: they muſte hauehave him for repentante / althowghe he remaine the ſame whiche before. And if there be one ſuche ſentence / in all either the admonition / or my replie / ſo iniurious to the office off the magiſtrate / ſo pernicious vntounto all manner of common welthes / as this is: wee refuſe not (that I maye alſo promiſe for the Admonitors) to be taken as enemies / vntounto the magiſtrate and as ouerturners off common welthes. For this is the ſworde (whiche S. Paule put in the magiſtrates hande Rom. 13.Rom 13/ to be drawne not of pleaſure / but off dewtie / not againſte the vnrepentante onelye but againſte the vnrighteouſnes off thoſe whiche ſhall publikly offende whatſoeuer) either ſtriken cleane p. CIXowte of his hande: or els if ante remaine / yt is more worthie to be called the ſigne off the ſworde / then the ſworde. Nowe yf twoo notable errors / be hable to proue one trewthe: he maye be thowghte to hauehave browghte ſomething / for the iuſtifyinge off this pullinge downe off the walle off the common welthe. But iff it muſte needes be falſe / whiche hath nothinge to leane vppon but error: I dowbte not but as the vntrewthe of yt doothe by yt ſelfe appeare: ſo by this ſo ſhameles defence / yt is laide more open.

And where he ſaithe / that this ſentence off Cyrill, maie Miniſter occaſion of quarrelinge vntounto ſuche as be diſpoſed: I anſwere / that there can be no peace withe this ſentence / but by betrayinge the trewthe: and that the vntrewthe of yt is ſo apparante / that all the patched ſhiftes whiche he hathe / ſhall neuer be hable to hide yt. But howſoeuer yt be (ſaithe he) this is euidente. What: forſooth that the quantitie off ſynne is not to be eſtemed, accordinge to the externall puniſhmente. Howe is it euidente / by what worde / or by what ſentence? yff the autoritie off the ſentence fall: iff it conſiſtinge vppon two partes / hauehave neuer a one trewe: yff in that verie poincte for whiche yt is alledged / yt is moſte falſe: where ys your Howe ſo euer? yow are a daūgerous aduerſarie to deale withe al / for whether the profes yow^t bringe be trewe / or whether they be falſe: they fall ſtill vponupon your ſyde.

But if the heynouſenes of the ſynne / be not to be eſtemed according to the corporall puniſhmente: wherby is it then to be eſtemed? accordinge (ſaie yowe) vntounto the commaundemente of god, accordinge to the threates of god pronounced againſte yt. As thowghe yt were not the commaundemente off God / that there ſhoulde be bodylie puniſhemente: and as thowghe the ciuill puniſhementes in this worlde / were not parte off thoſe threates / wherwithe the lorde threatneth the breakers of his lawe. Yow make therfore an oppoſition / where none is: And it is all one as if yow had ſaide / the corne maye not be moten withe a buſhel / but withe a meaſure. For as the buſſhell / is one meaſure: ſo is the corporall puniſhemente / bothe one off the commaundementes / and off the threates Prouer. 6.Prov 6of god / againſte open ſinnes. Salomon prouethe Adultery to be a greater ſin̄e / then thefte: for that where a thefe was not / the adulterer was purſwed vntounto deathe, wherbie it is manifeſt / that She p. CXlomo was of this iudgement / that in open faultes / committed againſt a godly / and honeſt peace: the greater faultes owght to be puniſhed / with more greauous puniſhement. And if equalitie of puniſhement in vnequall faultes / be iniuſtice: how myche more is yt iniuſte / to puniſhe greater faultes / with les / and leſſer with greater puniſhements? And therfore that nothinge ſhoulde be wantinge / to proue the doctor a perfecte confounder / and tumbler of thinges in to the heapes of diſorder: he dothe not onelie put no differēce / betwene the thinges whiche are ſeperate: but in thoſe alſo whiche are ioyned together / he imagineth ſuche enemitie: as yf the one ſtandinge / the other coulde not remaine. And as for his reaſon / that we ſee ſmaller faultes puniſhed withe greater tormente: the queſtiō is not what we ſee doone / but what owghte to be done. I graūte that one / and the ſame faulte / maie be puniſhed ſharpelier in one contrie / then in an other: in the ſame contrie alſo ſharpelier at ſome tyme / then at an other: But I denie / that theroff yt followethe / that in the ſame contrie / and at the ſame tyme / a greater faulte ſhoulde be puniſhed withe lighte puniſhmente / and a lighter withe a greate: whiche thinge / ſeinge yow excepte againſte a generall rule / owght to hauehave beene ſhewed. And the vanitie off this ſtartinge hoole / whiche is ſoughte in the diuerſitie of contries / maye partlie appeare / in that to the people off the Iewes / ād in the countrie off Iewry the lorde did neuer make lawe / to puniſhe a les faulte / by a greater puniſhement. And yet yt is certaine / both that people and countrie / had ſome thing different from others: and that in gyuinge lawes to that people / he had reſpecte boothe to them and their countrie. whereby I conclude / that diuerſities off puniſhementes / accordinge to the ſtate off the countries / may be eſtabliſhed: althowghe ther be no ſuche diſorder committed / off puniſhinge ſmall faultes greuouſly / and greuous faultes. ſmallye.

And wheras he ſaithe / that he makethe the difference off the ſeueritie off the lawe, and lenitie off the goſpell no further then in reſpecte off the temporall puniſhemente off the lawe: euen that is the very poincte / wherin a greate parte off the error off the Maniches / doothe conſiſte. For they were led / to condemne the iuſtice off God vnderunder the olde Teſtamente: becauſe off the owtewarde puniſhementes / p. CXIvvhiche were exerciſed / partly by the hande of God by iudgementes from heauen: partely by the miniſterie off men / at the commaundemente off the lawe / therfore the ſauour off Manichiſme / is ſtill as hoat as euer yt vvas.

And becauſe I am entred into the mention off this / althowghe the anſwerer can not hyrte off yt: yet the trewthe is / that euen in thes outwarde puniſhmentes / the diſpenſation off God vnderunder the lawe / is diuers from that vvhiche is vnderunder the goſpell. For vnderunder the ſcolemaſterſhipe of the lawe / as he crowned the obedience of yt / for the moſte parte / vvithe greater aboundance off owtward bleſſinges / then he dothe the obedience off his ſainctes vnderunder the Goſpell: ſo did he vvithe more terrible / oftener / and more manifeſte iudgementes / reuenge the breache off yt in that time / thē he dothe nowe. And herein indeede is the differēce vvhiche he is gropinge a bowte: but that this ſhoulde bringe any diuerſitie / in the ſet ād ordinarie puniſhemētes / preſcribed by the lawe: I for my parte can not vnderſtand / The contrarie rather I can gather. For euen as althowghe the lorde dothe not nowe by owtward bleſſinges / giuegive ſo plentifull teſtimonie vntounto the obedience off the goſpell / as then off the lawe: yet the magiſtrate owghte to be as diligente / to procure the Good off the churche / as euer he vvas in the time off the law: euen ſo / althowghe the lorde by bodilie puniſhementes / doothe not ſo ſeuerelie reuenge as he did then: yet the magiſtrate / maye not remitte any thinge therfore off that ſeueritie / vvhiche he vvas vvonte to vſe. Nay more: euen as the magiſtrate / owghte ſo muche more carefully procure / the owtwarde vvelfare of the churche nowe: as the lorde vvithdrawethe his hande that vvaies / more nowe / then he did then: euen ſo owghte he to kepe / by ſo much a harder hande / ouer the puniſhemente off ſynne now / then he did then: as the lorde / more rarely thundereth by his Iudgements from heauen / nowe / then he did in the time off the lawe.

And ſurely / if there euer had beene any time / vvherin the magiſtrates ſvvorde mighte hauehave reſted / and ruſted in the ſheathe: the time off the lawe / of all had beene fitteſte: vvhen the lorde / did ſo viſiblye ſit in his iudgmente ſeat / and him ſelfe in proper p. CXIIperſon / holde the aſſiſe / and gaile deliuerie. The cauſes off that diuerſitie / betwene the lawe / and the Goſpell / whiche I hauehave alledged / maye be fetched from thoſe lerned men / whiche handle this poincte: yt is enowghe for me / ſo to hauehave helped the anſwerer owte / withe that whiche he trauailed with: that I hauehave not onelie ſhewed / howe this cauſe is nothinge hindered / but greatly helped therby.

Yff the plaine wordes off the Prophete Zacharie / will not ſerue for our pourpoſe: what ſhall become off your cauſe / that hathe neuer a worde of the ſcripture? let vsus then heare / why it will not ſerue. Becauſe forſoothe by that meanes, the parentes ſhoulde hauehave powre of deathe vppon their children: and therfore their muſte ſome other ſenſe be ſowgthe / then that vvhiche the vvordes doo proporte. Wherunto I anſwere / that Moſes ſhewinge vvhat owghte be Deut. 13. 9. ver.Deut 13:9doone / agaīſte thoſe falſe teachers / whiche goe abowte ſecretly / to vvithdrawe frō the trewe worſhip of God: ſaithe / that allthoughe he be his brother / his ſoōe / his dawgther / or his wiffe / he ſhal not ſpare / but fill them. Tell men owe I praie yow / doothe not Moſes meane there truly / and as his vvordes ſounde / that the falſe teacher ſhall die? If yow dare not denie yt: then yow ſee / yowr reaſon vvhiche yow heere aſſigne / is nothing vvorthe: for there alſo / yt is commanded to the father / to kill his ſonne.

Now if yow liſte to lerne / yow maye perceiue that by thes vvordes / vnderſtanded ſimplie / there is no powre giuen to one priuate man / to kil another / nor for the parente (as a priuate man) to kill his children: but this manner off ſpeache / is grounded vppon the lawe off God / vvherby yt vvas prouided / that the witneſſe Deut. 17. 7. ver.Deut 17:7vvhiche had accuſed / ſhoulde throwe the firſte ſtone againſte the conuicted perſon. for ſo muche therfore / as boothe Moſes / and Zachary after Moſes / wil hauehave the father accuſer of his owne childe / if the knowledge off his inticemente to Idolatrie / remaine vvithe him alone: therfore alſo they aſcribe the killinge of the giltie perſon vntounto them / as a thinge belonginge vntounto the dewtie off the accuſer.

But ſeeinge this ſenſe pleaſe the yow not / let vsus heere what yow bringe. Yf (ſaithe he) yow will referre yt to the tyme of the goſpell, then this is the true meaninge: if to the time off the lawe, then that. Yf al be goſpell yow ſpeake / vve muſte needes beleue yow▪ yf your wordes p. CXIIIhauehave no further aucthoritie / then yow gyue them by Good reaſon / and conference off the ſcriptures: then caſtinge a waye the ſenſe / whiche hathe warrante off the manyfeſte wordes off the Scripture: yow ſhoulde hauehave confirmed by ſubſtanciall argumentes / that whiche yow hauehave ſet downe. The prowde Sorboniſtes / and Magiſtri noſtri off Paris / did neuer vſurpe a more abſolute auctoritie / and more owte off rule then this is: And yt is to bringe in an intollerable Tyrannie into the churche off God / and lordeſhippe not to be abydden. Whiche when I vnderſtande off all interpretations off men / be they neuer ſo lerned / and ſharpe: muche more off ſuche wooden interpretations whiche the anſwerer thruſte the vppon vsus. But tell me Good Sir / what difference is there betwene yowr firſte interpretation / and yowr ſeconde? For iff vnderunder the goſpell, it be lawfull (as yowr expoſition ſuppoſe the) for parentes to kyll ther children whiche ſhall prophecey falſely: what leue yow to the Iewes / wherin they differ from the Chriſtians? and tell me alſo / howe yow differ herin / from that whiche I ſet downe: that Idolatrie ovvghte to be puniſhed vvithe deathe vnderunder the goſpell?

But pardon me / I thinke I ſee yowr difference / which is / that the Iewes muſte doo yt accordinge to the lawe off Moſes / and the Chriſtians accordinge to the lawe off whome? why kepte yow backe that? Surely iff the Chriſtians be bounde to doo yt (as yowr interpretation ſaythe) they are bounde to doo yt by the lawe off Moſes: for I knowe no other lawe off preceptes / but that.

There is yet another difference / whiche yowr wordes maye gyue ſuſpicion off: that is / that the Chriſtian parentes ſhoulde rather put them to deathe / then be withdrawne by them: ſo that the Iewes hauehave a ſymple commaundemente to put them to deathe / but the Chriſtians hauehave yt vnderunder condition / yf they can not otherwiſe kepe ſtill the trewe worſhippe off God. But where / and in what ſhopp is this difference coyned? Whoſe Image / and ſuperſcription beare the yt? the Doctors. What Paules? no Whitgyftes. I knowe him not / yt is not good. For howe ſhall they be ſure they ſhall not be withdrawne by him: onles they procure hym to p. CXIIIIbe put to deathe? And althowghe they were owte off perill off beinge withdrawen: how are other prouided for / whome he maye corrupte? And yff it were poſſible that poiſon which he hathe / coulde not hurte any other: where is the reuenge off Godds glorye / whiche hathe bene diſhonored by ſuche falſe teachinge / and in the maintenance vvheroff / the zeale off the children off God / aſwell vnderunder the goſpell as vnderunder the lawe / dothe conſiſte? Thes differences betwene his interpretacions he giueth incklinge off / but the folye off them was ſo apparante / that he durſte not laye them open.

And althowge vve hauehave alredy to manye interpretations by one: yet here comethe the thirde. And this is an allegorie / whiche expoundeth killinge, confutinge. Where firſte / the anſwerer ſhoulde hauehave remembred / that he condemned in the Admonition allygoryinge as Papiſtical / (vvhiche in deede is not ſo muche Papiſticall / as Anabaptiſticall) allbeit they fetched their allegorie / from two famous men / maiſter Hoper and Maiſter Alaſco. Here yt is Catholike in him / that was there Papiſticall in them. then obſerue Good reader / howe he that chalenged the Admo. For makinge the holy ſcripture a noſe off wax, and me that I make yt yt a ſhipmans hoſe: hathe here ſet vpp three interpretations off one / and the ſame place. Off vvhiche althoughe neuer a one / can ſtande vvith a nother: yet becawſe he thinkethe they all make for him / he ſtickethe not euen to ſtrike hym ſelffe / to gyue a pricke vntounto the truthe.

And as for maiſter Luther / I anſwere withe Ierome: whiche (albeit he did not ſo well practiſe it him ſelfe) yet in one place of the ſmaller Prophetes (that cometh not now to my minde) ſaithe / that to ſeeke for an alligorie, vvhere a Plaine and litterall ſenſe maie be had: is to ſeeke a knotte in a riſhe. Seinge therfore the ſcripture meaneth here as it ſpeaketh / and calleth a ſpade a ſpade / and a figg a figg: to expounde killinge confuttinge, and corporall vveapons ſpirituall / and heretikes hereſies: is by Maiſter Luthers Good leaue / owte off ſeaſon.

Futhermore if Maiſter Luther ſhoulde by confutinge off their heryſies / ſhut owte the corporall puniſhmente off deathe: p. CXVhe hath the Anſw. interpretation (whiche he calleth thē true meaninge off the place) for enemie. So that either maiſter Luthers meaninge was / that they ſhoulde not onelyonly put them to deathe / but alſo confute their hereſies: or els yt ſerueth as well to ouerthrowe that / whiche the anſwerer hathe ſet downe / as that which we mainteine.

But obſerue here I beſeche yow / the ſhamfull practiſe off the Anſw. If Maiſter Caluine / or Maiſter Gualter vppon thes places / had had any thinge for him / that ſhoulde hauehave bene ſet downe: iff they had had nothinge againſte him / he woulde (as h… hathe doone in diuers places) hauehave vſed that nothing / as a preiudice vntounto the truthe: nowe he perceyued they were directly againſte him / he is fledd to Maiſter Luther / to borowe this ſentence off him. What iff I had alledged the authoritie off Maiſter Caluin / Maiſter Beza / Maiſter Martyr / Maiſter Gwalter / and diuers others / for the confirmation off this ſentence / that heretykes owghte to be put to deathe nowe / as well as falſe Prophetes vnderunder the lawe: what if I had browghte maiſter Caluins / ād maiſter Gualters interpretation off this place off Zacharie / expoundinge yt as I hauehave doone (wheroff alſo one off them / callethe thoſe fanticall ſpirites / vvhiche contrarie this doctrine) What place ſhoulde Maiſter Luthers allegorie hauehave had / againſte ſuche an hoſte off learned men / cominge ſo ſtrongly with ſubſtantiall argumentes / fetched from the ſymple meaninge off the ſcriptures? Yet all men of any reading knowe that this might eaſely hauehave bene doon: if I vvould hauehave ſought to preiudice yowr parte / by the authoritie off men

I concluded onelie off that place off Zacharie (againſte yowr fonde diſtinction) that the ſame ſeueritie off puniſhemente / that vvas vſed againſte falſe Prophetes then: owghte to be vſed nowe vnderunder the goſpell / againſte falſe teachers / comparing one parſon / and circomſtance withe a nother. As he that hathe fallen awaie from God / and goone abowte to drawe others away: to be handled accordinge to the lawe preſcribed in that chap. 13. off Deut. if this be bloudie, and extreme: I am contente to be ſo counted / withe the holie goſte: and then ſhall not yow ſmell off Manichiſme / but be a flat Manichean. And althowghe in other p. CXVIcaſes off Idolatrie / vppon repentance liffe is giuen / as in the examples off the Lenytes / fallinge awaie from the truthe / in the generall reuolte off the people: yet in this caſe off willing ſliding backe In the next treatiſe./ and mouing others to the ſame: and other ſome caſes / whiche are expreſſed in the lawe / as off open / and horrible blaſphemie off the name off God: I denie that vppon repentance / ther owghte to followe any pardon off death / whiche the Iudiciall lawe dothe require.

And where yow ſaye / that there is no example, from the natiuitie off Chriſte vntounto this howre: firſte yow greatly forget / how euill yow intreate them whiche reaſon negatiuely off autoritie: and how yow crie owte vppon them / which (as yow ſaye) off a thinge not doone, conclude yt owghte not be doone. And this reaſon is yet worſſe: for yt vvoulde conclude / that no Idolater repentante / ſhoulde be put to deathe / becauſe ther was none ſo handled / within a certeine ſpace. Then yow maye vnderſtande / that the princes vvhiche hauehave mainteined the goſpell all this vvhile yow ſpeake off / by vvhome thes executions ſhoulde hauehave bene doone / hauehave bene bothe fewe in number / and off ſmall endurance off tyme. And yet althowghe Conſtantyne the Emperour were to mylde a prince / and did as Euſebius witneſſethe / muche harme in the churche 4. lib. off the liffe off Conſt. 1. lib. 9. cap.vvith his clemencie: yet he made a lawe as Socrates teſtifiethe / that as manie as were founde to hauehave any writinge off Arius ſhoulde die for yt. iff that vvere put in execution / as is to be thowghte: the example theroff comethe nothinge behinde in ſeueritie / that vvhichwhich is here defended.

Thirdely they did not lacke / Good / and faithfull admonitours to vſe this ſeueritie. For one writinge vntounto the two bretherne Emperours / Conſtance / and Conſtātins / ſhewethe that they owghte Iulius firmicus Mater…us.to puniſhe Idolatrie withe all ſeueritie: and alledginge this lawe in 13. Deutr. and another off the deſtruction off a vvhole citie / vvhiche ſhall be partaker off ſuche ſlyding away / ſaythe / that they are commaundementes vntounto the Emperours. I hauehave read alſo in ſome ſtorye / off Aluredus a Kinge off Englande vvhiche made a lawe / that vvhatſoeuer he vvere that vvente frome Chriſtianitie to Paganiſme / ſhoulde render his liffe for yt. and not onelyonly p. CXVIIthe newe teſtamète / but the olde alſo / is the ſtore howſe vvhere owte vve take our argumentes / to proue the truthe / and to impugne the contrarie. Therfore yt is an euill argumente / to ſaye / yt can not be ſhewed owte off the newe Teſtamente, therfore yt is not true: when as a man maye rather reaſon / that forſomuche as yt can not be ſhewed owte off the olde teſtamente / therfore yt is not true. Conſideringe that there is no doctrine in the newe Teſtamente / which is not conteined in the olde: and there is ſomewhate in the olde Teſtamente / whiche is not to be found in the newe. And yet forſomuche as I hauehave ſhewed / euen owte off the newe Teſtamente / that he that killethe a man / and takethe awaie his corporall liffe owghte to die: yt followethe muche more / that he whiche takethe a waie the liffe off the ſowle / ſhoulde die. And iff yt be meete to mainteine the liffe off man / by the puniſhement off deathe: howe ſhoulde the honor off God / whiche is more precious then all mens liues / be withe ſmaller puniſhemente eſtabliſhed?

Therfore to cloſe vpp this queſtion / I will ad this: That the magiſtrates whiche puniſhe murther / and rheftes / and treaſons / withe other tranſgreſſions off the ſeconde table ſeuerely / and are loſe in puniſhinge the breaches off the firſte table / beginne at the wronge ende: and doo all one withe thoſe / whiche to drie vpp many riuers fedd continually by one fountaine / begynne at the chanels where yt deuidethe / and partethe yt ſelfe into manie armes: whiche as yt is an endles labour / ſo is this alſo that they Goo abowte. For when as S. Paule teacheth / that God for iuſte reuenge off the diſhonor off his name / and ſtaininge off his glorie / 1. Rom.giuegive the men into wicked mindes / to the cōmittinge of all kinde off ſynnes / conteined in the ſecond table / be they neuer ſo horrible / and ſo makethe the breache off the firſte table / cauſe off the breache off the ſeconde: yt can not be (let the magiſtrate late as Good watche as he can / boothe multiplie / and aggrauate his puniſhmē tes as muche as he can) I ſaye yt can not be / but where ether the firſte table is broken / or the breache not dewly reuenged ſwarmes off treaſons / theftes / murthers / adulteries / periuries / and ſuche like / muſte needes breake owte in thoſe gouernmētes. And therfore as the ſhorte / and eaſye waie to drie vp the chanels / and riuers p. CXVIIIis to ſtoppe the heade / and fountaine off all: ſo the onelie remedie of purginge the com̄on wealthe off thes peſtilences / is to bende the force off ſharpe and ſeuere puniſhementes / eſpecially againſte Idolaters / blaſphemers / contemners of trw Religion / and off the ſeruice off God And therfore I conclude / that thoſe whiche woulde hauehave the ſeueritie of the lawe againſte Idolaters abated / doo at vnawares / not onelie therby vtter the ſmall price whiche they ſet / ether off Godes glorie or of the ſaluation of their brethren: but withall declare them ſelues enemies to common wealthes / and off all bothe cyuill / and Godly honeſtie of liffe.

Your conſcience Maiſter W. and the conſcience of all men beare witnes / that bothe here / and almoſte eueryevery where / yow wringe my wordes clean contrary to my meaninge: and therin I am well contente the Iudgemente remain with the reader. And althowghe I am fully perſwaded / that ther was no occaſion taken off euill by this doctrine: yet if any weare / it beinge the doctrine of the holy Goſte / whoſo euer hathe taken occaſion of euill / hathe without repentance borne his puniſhemente: and ſo ſhall yowe moſte aſſuredly in that daye / wherin the mouthe off wickednes ſhall be ſtopped.

Yt maie not be paſſed by / that he in the begininge of the firſte of thes ſections / matched the lawes off the Iewes / whiche were the lawes gyuen by God him ſelfe / vvithe the lawes of the moſte barbarous / and Prophane Tyrant that euer was: ſuche is the reuerece he beareth to the lawes of God. Note alſo that where I ſaie / that I vvill ioyne vvithe him, that the tranſgreſsions off the lavve vnderunder the goſpell, are to be ſeuerelyer puniſhed, then they vvere vnderunder the lavve: He in pretendinge / and makinge a brage that he woulde ioyne / ſlyppethe me clean a ſyde / and ſaythe / that he will ioyne withe me that the magiſtrate is not bounde to the iudiciall lawe off Moſes, for the manner off puniſhinge: as thowghe that were any thinge like / that whiche I propounded. And in that he anſwerethe no one worde / to the two reaſons whiche I alledged / that is to ſaye / for that bothe the knovvledge off the lavve is greater novve then thē, and other gyftes off the ſpirite off God, vvherby the lavve ſhoulde be better kepte, more aboundantly povvred p. CXIXoute novve then then: he dothe not onelyonly ſlyppe a ſide / but turnethe his blinde partes towardes me.

Nowe to returne backe / to the Diuiſ. pag. 123. I leaue to the iudgement off the reader / howe importunate an aduerſarie the D. is: vvhichwhich requireth anſwer of that / which hath been ſo often anſwered. In the next Diuiſ. p. 124. ſeeking to mainteine his logicke in diuiding / and defining / he maketh him ſelffe pytifull / to all that euer ſaluted that ſcoole. For what an abſurd ſaying is yt / that becawſe the definition off a generall thing, agreeth vntounto his particular: therfore yt is the definition off the particular? As though eueryevery thing / vvhichwhich vvere verefied of an other / were by and by the definition off it: or as thoughe the ſame coulde be the definition / of the generall and of the ſpeciall. And what a miſerable defence of his diuiſiō is yt / which to proue that his three laſt partes / are not conteined vnderunder the firſt: alledgeth / that they are not all one with the firſt? But as I promiſed / I will leaue this to the learned reader: that I leeſe not the tyme / in confuting off theſe tryfles. The reſt off his ſection is anſwered before.

In the next / beſide the ſentence which I denie / and he vntruly fathereth off Zuing. that in Ceremonies, thinges are to be vſed in the church, which are not conteined in the ſcriptures▪ There is nothing / which maketh any thing vntounto the queſtiō. For where he ſaieth / that I miſlike that of Zuing. (If they be not repugnant to the vvord) I hauehave tould him before / that I neuer found fault with that / but becawſe he condēned the Ad. which will hauehave thē caſte in the mould off the word off God. And as for Maiſter Bezaes ſentence repeted here / off diſcipline left in the order off the church, and that ſome thinges doon off the Apoſtles, are not alvvaies to be follovved off vsus: whereby it ſeemed the D. would make the reader belieue / that he meaneth this / off the pointes of diſcipline nowe debated: yff I ſhould herein charge him with vntrue dealing / vppon Maiſter Bezaes booke off Epiſt. Which declareth in ſo many Epiſt. 11. 14. 20. 83.places / and wordes / that there is a Diſcipline off God left vntounto his churche vnchangeable / and preciſely determined in the word off God: and howe he maketh the partes thereoff / the ſame which the D. fighteth againſt with might / and maine: he would paraduenture p. CXXſaie / that he could take no notice off that / which was not yet brought to light. But when the ſame booke from whence he drewe thes outorities / mainteneth thoſe partes off diſcipline towching the Elderſhipp / the conſent off the church in Ecceſiaſticall elections / the right inſtitution off Deacons / &c. as neceſſarye / which he will hauehave arbitrarie: he owght to hauehave vnderſtanded / that thoſe thinges which M. Beza noteth / vnderunder the name off Diſcipline left at the order off the church, are nothing leſſe then theſe / which he would inſinuate. Which he might yet eaſelier hauehave vnderſtanded / by the place which he alledgeth out off the Corinthes / that leaueth yt not in the churches power / ether who ſhall gouerne / or what they ought to doo which muſt gouerne: but howe that gouernement which is preſcribed / may be vſed moſt decently / in regard off circumſtance off time / &c. For euen in that place / the Apoſtle defining off certen pointes of diſcipline / (as that vvemen ought not to ſpeake in the church, &c.) declared ſufficiently / that he ment not to leaue the gouernement off the church / in her owne diſpoſition / and order. But what M. Beza ment by this arbitrarie Diſcipline / yt ſhall yet better appeare in the next tractate / off the Election off the church: where this here ſpoken generally / ſhall there belaied open by example. the reſte off this Diuiſ. is anſwered.

In the next Diuiſ. I leaue yt to the iudgement off the reader pag. 130./ whether I hauehave truly gathered off his wordes. As for the defenſe he maketh to proue / Truly and Purely all one (for ſo he muſt / if he mainteine his anſwer) the firſt reaſon he bringeth / (that a man may preache true thinges, and not truly) is cleane ouerthrowne by his owne anſw. for to ouerthrowe (that which he falſely attributeth vntounto the Adm.) that the word is not truly preached, becawſe the Miniſters are not duely called: he ſaithe / that the reaſon is not Good / becawſe howe wicked ſoeuer the man be which preacheth, yet he may preache the true word off God. Here ether the Anſ. muſt make to preache true thinges / and to preache truly all one: or els he hath not anſwered to the argument he ſuppoſeth the Adm. to vſe. The other is / for that S. Paul vſeth theſe wordes in truthe, for ſyncerely. Wherein beſide the former fault (which is the contrarietie with him p. CXXIſelfe) he ſhould hauehave learned / that that maner off ſpeach / is taken off the Ebrues: which as they call a lie / not onelyonly that which is ſpokē / but that which is doon / or imagined againſt the truthe: ſo likewiſe contrary. Which maner off ſpeach not being receiued in our tounge / is fondly / and out off time pretended: conſidering alſo / that the translatiōs in our tounge (as in others) hauehave ſhunned that phraſe / as that which they could not reache vntounto.