A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 — Thomas Cartwright

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 · Thomas Cartwright

The ſecond replie of Thomas Cartwright: agannſt Maiſter Doctor Whitgiftees ſecond anſwer / touching the Churche Diſcipline.

Iſay. 62. verſ. 1.

For Syons ſake, I will not hould my tonge, and for Ieruſalems ſake, I will not reſte: vntill the righteouſnes therof break forth as the light, and the ſaluation therof be as a burning lampe.

Ibid. verſ. 6. & 7.

Ye that are the Lordes remembrancers, kepe not ſilence, and gyue him no reſt: vntill he repaire, and ſet vp Ieruſalem the praiſe off vvorld.

Imprinted. M. D. LXXV.

To the Churche off England / and all that LoueLove the trueth in yt: Thomas Cartwright Wiſheth mercy / and peace / from God our Father / and from our Lorde Ieſus Chriſte.

THe Church off God ſo ofte vsus ſcripture not compared onelyonly / but figured in the Citie Ieruſalem: ſerueth for inſtruction / in this cauſe. For as in yt / the wal firſt broken downe / was laſt made vp againe / and that more then 14. yeares after the temple builded Eſr. 6. 15. Neh. 2. ….ſo is yt commenly in the ſpirituall wal off the churche / whiche is the diſcipline the lorde appointed / aſwel for ſtrenght of yt / as for houlding out of all aduerſarie power / whether yt be corruption off doctrine or manners. The firſt is to be ſeen / in the Act. of thapoſtles: where (after the churches gathered by preaching) there was an elderſhip ſeuerally placed in them) to whom the execution of the church diſcipline doth eſpecially appertain. The other may as eaſily appear / to him that conſidereth the eſtate off the churche after the Apoſtles / by monuments off thoſe times: in which allwaies as this fort off gouernement left by them was firſt ſuffred to decaie / ſo the purenes of doctrine decreaſed: vntill the churche yt ſelfe (except a few ſtones here and there ſcattered) was browght to heapes off duſt. Yf y… be aſked / why the diſcipline hauing right to entre with the doctrine: findeth not alwaies / that fauour amongeſt men. The cauſe …s apparant / that when Satan can not gain this firſt point to houlde the doctrine owt off a city or Kingdome: he ſweareth after the ſecond / that yt may be there with ſmalleſt fruict / and ſhorteſt continuance. Wherin let (I beſeche yow) be conſidered: his doings / againſt the building off the wal off Ieruſalem. For if he beſtirred himſelf ſo / in hindering that materiall wal: it wil be les meruaile / yf for hinderance off this ſpirituall he trudge to and fro / open his whole pack off ſubtilties / and as yt is in prouerb beſtovv both …vet and dry.

And firſt touching the perſons he vſeth / in his fight againſt both: they are not much vnlike. For in ſteed off a baſtard kinde off aEſr. 4. 12 Neh. 6. 1.Iſraelites / Apoſtataes from God and his tru ſeruice (which were there the foreine enemies): we hauehave now the Papiſtes / who (as ſhal appear) he ſet in the forward of this battail / againſt the diſcipline now propounded. And as now we hauehave within the church / whiche couered with the name off the goſpel and off the teachers theroff / giuegive a more daungerous aſſault then the Papiſtes: So were there then euen off the bNeh. 6. 10. 17. 18. 19.Iewes them ſelues vnderunder gouerners and Prophetes / which ſecretly and openly oppoſed them ſelues. As for the practiſes / they are ſo like in bothe: that all which will open their eies / maie eaſely eſpie the ſame workeman. For as the enemies then placed their cheef ſtrenght / in accuſations againſt the church / that yf it vvere cEſr. 4. 12 &c. Neh. 2. 19.ſuffered to laie the foundaciōs of the vval it vvould moue ſeditiō, and rebel againſt the Kinge: euen ſo our aduerſary / to arme the Prince againſt this cauſe / ſoundeth nothing more then rebellion / ſedition / and ſuche like. Yf this were not able to diſcrie / or (at leaſt) to giuegive warning off this vnfaithfull dealing: yet this may. That theſe are the verie weapons off the papiſtes / which not able amongeſt vsus with ſo great ſucces to be vſed by them ſelues as thoſe which are knowne enemies: hauehave bene miniſtred to the D. that being throwne owte off his hand in whoſe mouthe is the goſpell / they might be thowght to hauehave bene made for defence / which were forged for ouerthrow of yt. For where Brentius teacheth / that the miniſters owght not to beare dominion ouer the churches like princes: Hoſius accuſeth him / that by the ſame meane / he vvent about to dLib. de haereſ. noſt. tep.diſplace Caeſar. And vponupon like occaſion / that vve vvould el. 2. de legit. iudic. rerū eccl.ouerthrovv al kingdomes and ſuperiority: that men might doe) vvat they liſte. That yf the Almans, had once flib. 5. de cathol. eccleſ.ſhaken off the Pope: they vvould ſhake off, Caeſar ſone after. Yf theſe be compared with diuers off the D. accuſations / and namely with that page 455. lin. 1. yt will be meruail that (onles he were in this point taught by the ſame ſpirit Hoſius was) he could iump ſo euen / not onelyonly with the like accuſation / but almoſt with the ſame wordes. But this ſhall better appeare / in diſcours off this boke where ys ſhewed not onelyonly that he hathe the like / but the verie ſelf ſame cauſe with the groſſeſt Papiſtes. I ſay the groſſeſt / for that in ſome pointes / as off the churches election and paſtorall reſidence / there are found off them more fauorable to the trwth then he: which ioining with Catholike writers both ould / and of our time / hauehave written againſt the eſtate off the Popiſh churche in that behalf.

And that no mans ſimplicity be abuſed by an owtward profeſſion off the goſpell / as thowgh yt were vnlike that they which profeſſed yt ſhould be enimies to the trwe diſcipline: or vncredible that the ſame whiche cry out off the Tyranny off Antechriſt / ſhoulde refuſe the moderat and wholſom gouernement of Chriſt: yt may pleaſe them to vnderſtand that this cauſe hathe before this bydden the aſſault not off the Papiſtes alone / but euen off them which make ſhew off ſo deadly war with papiſtry: that the greateſt force of their reſiſtance / hathe bene a feare ether pretended / or vainly phanſied / leaſt the gyuing place to the diſcipline ſhoulde draw after yt the popiſhe Tyranny. aM. Cap i to vntounto M. Farel in the boke off M. Cal. EpiſtCapito a man off ſinguler learning and godlines / affirmeth that it was obiected vntounto them whiche vvente about to reſtore the diſcipline. that they vvould be Tyrans ouer the churche vvhichwhich vvas free, and cal back againe a nvve popedome. M. bVponUpon 4. Epheſ.Bucer: Satā goeth about, that by reſtoring of the diſcipline, the faithfull Miniſters ſhould be thovvght to ſeek ambitouſly the ſame Tyranny, vvhichwhich Antechriſt did. cIn the life off M. Calu.M. Beza vvhen the Elderſhip and excō municatiō vvere to be inſtituted: there vvāted not vvhichwhich cried ovvt, that the popiſh tyranny vvas by that meanes called back again: alſo that the magiſtrats office, vvas therby in parte inuaded. Now if theſe ſlaunders be compared with the dpa 299. 27. line pag. 459. 47. lin. item pa. 560. lin. 5. item pa. 646. li. 29. &c.Anſwerers: al may vnderſtand / that althowgh / the inſtrments vſed againſt the diſcipline vary in tyme and countrie / yet the autor (miſleading ſome by ſimplicitie / and thruſting other headlong throwgh couetouſnes or ambition) ys the ſame in our countrey / which was then in Germany / Fraunce / or Sanoy. For that the diſcipline now propounded / is the ſame whiche ſuffered this cōtradiction off certein profeſſors off the Goſpell / ſhall manifeſtly appear in this diſcours: and may be partly vnderſtode both by Cap… letters / written to comfort a miniſtre off Geneua then Wreſtling for yt / as by Bezas wordes which particularly note one or two partes therof. Nether can diſagreemēt of the fauourers thereoff / in interpretation of ſome place / ſignification of ſome word / alteration off ſome circumſtance (yf any be) hinder this: no more then diuers pictures off one face / hauing al the ſame great and principal drawghts / can hinder vsus from acknowledging the ſame viſage in them al: albeit one be more coningly drawn then other / hauehave more liuely and orient couloures then other / hauehave one ſmal line more or les then other. Onles peraduenture / men wil be ſo vnaduiſed / to denie the doctrine off the Goſpell to be the ſame profeſſed at Geneua / at Zurick / at Witemberg: becauſe the profeſſors / had in ſome ſmaller points their ſeueral Iudgements.

Another principall kinde off artillery / wherwith the D. leueleth at this wal off church diſcipline: is …haccuſation / off Anabaptiſtry. This alſo (as may appeare) is taken from the Papiſtes. For when the perſequuting off the churche in Fraunce (where together with the doctrine this diſcipline was eſtabliſhed) was miſliked off the Almanes: the French to appeaſe them ſaid / Calu. in his praeface to the pſames.there vvere none ſo cruelly handled, but Anabaptiſts and troubleſome felovves, vvhichwhich vvould ouerthrovv not religion onelyonly, but the vvhole order off the commē vvealth. And althowgh the D. hath in this behalf trauailed mightily / and gathered (as yt were) a heape off ſtones to throw at vsus: yet for feare off being conuincted off ſo manifeſt vntrwthes he dare not throw one / but priuilie and as yt were vnderunder hand: ſaying / he will not accuſe any, he will not condemne any. that is: he will (forſothe) not flea vsus him ſelf / but hould our legs / while other flea vsus. But he ſhal neuer ſo eſcape / the iudgemement off God. For yf he were giltie / Act. 22. 20which kept their garments that caſt the ſtones: how much more ſhall he / that put ſtones in their handes. althowgh / yf we were ſuche: we owght ſo to be noted / that others might take heed / off ſuche deteſtable heretikes. All which falſe ſurmiſes with diuers others of Donatiſm Papiſm purataniſm. We might with one ſentence off the holy man Iob / hauehave refuted. For ſo are they not onelyonly vntrw / but for the moſte parte without al colour of trwth: Iob 31. 35 36.that taking our aduerſaries boke off accuſations vponupon our ſhoulders, and applying them vntounto our heades (that al might read and ſee them) wee might as off a crovvne, or robe hauehave receiued commendation by them. Howbeit / becauſe there was ſome daunger leaſt the D. lofty titles / and glittering eſtate might ether ſeduce ſom ſimple ones / or vtterly carie away thoſe whoſe mindes were foreſtalled with ſome preiudice againſt the cauſe we maintein: I thowght good once at large / ād peece by peece / to lay forth the vnworthines of his accuſations. Now I ſee / there is no end of his vnhoneſt charges: I meane not by further anſwer in pourſuit off his oulde / or auoiding his nwe / ether weary my ſelfe or the reader. For ſeing the vntrwth off them / is in the eies and eares off all: why ſhoulde I trauaile to ſtop his Throate / which (as an open ſepulchre off vntrw ſumiſes) wil as (ſeemeth) neuer with any reaſonable anſwer be filled vp.

And that yow may hauehave a taſte off his equitie: note (I beſeche yow) his anſwers vntounto our defence. This is wel ſaid, if vnfained: pag. 33. pag. 55. pag. 33.Theſe glorious wordes are but miſtes, to blind the eies off the ſimple: The Anabaptiſtes would ſaie the like. Verely if they ſay ſo they ſhall deteſte them ſelues / with all their wicked phantaſies: and gyue as ſounde a Confeſſion of the trwth / as the Doctor can make any. But let vsus imagin him ſelfe accuſed off all theſe pointes / which he ſurmiſeth of vsus: I would gladly know / what he would anſwer. Let him conceiue his purgation as effectually / and in as good wordes as he can / make al the proteſtations he can / offer him ſelf to what examination he can: how eaſie ys yt for his aduerſarie with the ſame equitie he vſeth towardes vsus / to daſhe al. This is wel ſaid, but it is fained: there was neuer heretike, which to hide bis poiſon, pretended not ſome colour off truth, &c. And by the grace off God / we are as far / yea further alſo (as ſhall appeare) from al pointes off Anabaptiſme / then he. But (ſaith he) let the like effectes proceding of like pag. 33.cauſes, and in like maner: iudge the likelihoode betweene the Anabaptiſtes, and them. Truly yf he proue the cauſes like / the controuerſie is at an …de. And if the ſearche off the trwth had bene his marke: here he would hauehave begon / where the triall is certaine / and not off the effectes. Which allthowgh they be falſly ſurmiſed: yet ſome are ſuche / as maie enſue (albeit after another ſorte) aſwell the preaching off the trwth / as the publiſhing off falſhood.

And ſurely if the Anabaptiſtes / when they roſe in Germany / had met with ſuche confuters: yt is very like / that they (now put to flight) would hauehave occupied the greateſt part off it. But the godlie myniſters / aſſured of a good cawſe / prouoked to moſt ſolemn diſputations: where all ſeyng their vanities / might learne to deteſte them / and them ſelues (made to vnderſtand their folies) might be ſtricken with ſhame / which might bringe repentance. This they did by example off the Godlie learned in times paſt / and off Auguſtine namely: Who prouoketh the Donatiſtes and Manichies to Diſputation / in the hearing off all his church. This cauſe therfore if yt ſhould not preuaile / by force off trwthe yt muſt gaine / throwghe the indirecte meanes / and cowardly fight off the Anſwerer: ſo far from procuring this trial / that he accuſeth me as deſirous of popular praiſe: becauſe refuſing his priuat confe…rence (as he ſome where hath affirmed) I onelyonly put him in minde pag. 354./ of a diſputacion. Wherto alſo perteineth / that he counteth yt Anabaptiſtical: that this ys propounded in places where the goſpell hath pa. 12. 34.bene alredy planted. As if there were a fitter place / to propounde the Diſcipline: then vvhere the doctrine / hathe allredie beene receiued. where ſhoulde the vvall be fitlier made: then where the citie / is before builded. Where / the diche caſte: but where the Orcheyarde / is alreadie planted. Yf yt had bene preached / where was ignorance / or ſmall knowledge of the goſpell the would hauehave taken great aduantage. for that they might ſo hauehave abuſed the blindnes of their heares to cauſe them beleue that which thoſe that hauehave their eyes open could not be brought vntounto. Now they preache in places / vvhere the goſpell was planted: he will make that alſo ſerue for a ſtepp / for his accuſation to clime vp by. So that howſoeuer we behaue our ſelues / what commoditie off circumſtance ſoeuer we hauehave: the D. hathe ſuche an engine / that he can not onelyonly cauſe yt not to ſerue for vsus / but alſo make againſt vsus. For ſure I am / no place could hauehave bene les ſuſpected then London and Cambridge / two off the higheſt hills in all the realme: from whence bothe the ſounde off yt might be the eaſileſt caried into all other places / and which abounding with knowledge off the goſpell / were fitteſt to iudge off the goodnes off the cauſe. Wherin I doubte not / but the good hande off Gods direction / and the example off the Apoſtells: hauehave bene conſidered. who that they might hauehave fuller ſheues off the ſeed of their doctrine / preaſed to the chief and moother cities / making their accompte / that the mother being won / the daughters round abowte vvould be eaſilier intreated. And althowghe yt come to often to pas / that there is ſome Amazias / or high preiſt nere the courte / which vſeth both his eies to watche that none come thether / to diſquiet his vnlawfull poſſeſſion: yet forſomuche as it is as impoſſible to pull the winges off the winde that yt ſhould not blow / or ſhut the windowes off the heauens that they ſhould not raine / as to ſtop that trwth / which God in his holy worde hath breathed / and doeth raine by the clowdes off his myniſtery: I dowbt not / but the voice off yt is come to the higheſt / and ſhall hauehave that fruict in time / which God hath diſpoſed off. Yf yt ſhould not: yet eueryevery faithfull myniſter is detter vntounto his flocke / 20. Act. 27.off the whole trwth learned owt off the worde off God: aſwell for reioicing their heartes in encreaſe of knowledg / as that therby they might bewail their ſynnes for want off yt: and forthwith be ſtirred to continuall praier / that God would encline the Princes heart and off others in autoritie / to gyue yt that defence which apperteineth.

Nether doe we therefore call vponupon the examination off our doctrine / as thowgh we feared leaſt our behauiour ſhould be examined / or as if yt reſembled the Anabaptiſtes maner of liuing: but that I might ſhew / how diſorderly the D. goeth to worck. For althowgh before the Lord / we (and I for my part eſpecially) as myſerable ſynners hang down our heades and couer our faces: yet our behauiour (throwgh his grace) towching that ſurmiſed of vsus / ys ſuch) as we nothing fear / but with all indifferent iudgement yt conteineth plentifull remedy / againſt the ſting off all ſuche ſlaunderous tonges. Wiſe Phyſicions / when the deſeaſe is vnknown: ſeeke yt by owtward tokens off pulſe / vrine / &c. Yf we had nouriſhed any night or corner doctrine / which we whiſpering in the eares of certeine / woulde not hauehave had come owt of the doores of our priuat houſes: yt ſhould hauehave bene accounted to him for wiſdom / by ſignes and coniectures to hauehave inquired into our couert opinions. But now ſeing we hauehave Fanckly and openly publiſhed our iudgementes and as yt were on the Faire and Market daies proclaimed them / offering them in ſcholes / in churches / by preaching / by writing / not onelyonly to the taſt off the commen people but to the examination of the beſt learned: after al this to inquire by ſignes and tokens / is to ſeek his aduerſary whiche ſtandeth hard by / to call for him which is preſent. And yt is as if one / to know what iudgement an other is of: had rather take his mark by the colour of his coat or tag of his point / then by his ſpeache or hand writing. And if it were / the good will off God: I would (for this matter) he had a window / to look into our conſciences. To make and ende of anſwer / to theſe ſurmiſes / whatſoeuer is proper ether to the hereſie off Papiſtes / Anabaptiſtes / Donatiſts / or puritanes: that wee vtterly condemne / vntounto the bottomles pit off hell. But if amongeſt the filth of their heriſes / there may be found any good thing (as yt were a grain off good corn in a great deal of darnell): that wee willingly receiue / not as theiree / but as the Iues did the holy Arke from the Philiſtines / wherof they were vniuſt owners. For herein yt is trw / that is ſaid: the ſheep muſt not lay dovvn her fel, becavvſe Auguſt. 2. lib. Serm. de mōte.ſhe ſeeth the vvolf ſomtim clothed vvith yt. yea yt may come to pas / that the Synaguog off Satan: may hauehave ſome one thing a… ſomtime / with more conuenience / then the trw and Catholike churche off Chriſt. Such was the ceremonie off powring water once onelyonly vponupon the childe in baptiſme / vſed with vsus and in the moſte reformed churches: which in ſome age / was vſed onelyonly by thoſe off the Eunomian hereſy. As for the Anſwerer / let Sozom. 6. lib. 20 c.him remember that the iuſt Iudge liueth: before whome (if he doe not ſpeedelie repent) one day notwithſtanding his gloſes (I accuſe none, I apply yt to none) he muſte houlde vp his hand / with Satan the Prince off the accuſers off the children off God: wherunto I doubt not but his own conſcience is his Apparitor / and hath giuen him ſummonce. And thus much for anſwer / vntounto the D. generall / partly accuſations and partly ſurmiſes: againſt the fauourers / off the church diſcipline now propounded.

There folow / particular charges: againſt the autors off the admonition / and againſt me. Thoſe againſt them hauehave bene anſwered / and the anſwers ſo far forth as they touche the cauſe / are in this boke mainteined: ſauing certein new charges. Wherein I dowbt not but they will take yt in good part / that I vſe ſilence: ſeing that ſome of the ſmaller thinges are ſuch as lie not in my knowledg / and ſome ſo manifeſtly vntrw / that they need not fear any credit to be gyuen vntounto them: the D. him ſelfe (as I thinck) not belieuing them. Of his accuſations againſt me / becauſe ſome hauehave eie aſwel to the ſpeakers as to the thinges ſpoken: I truſt / yt ſhall not be greuous / yf I anſwer ſomthing. Eſpecially when in this preface / beſide other thinges: I purpoſe (God willing) to Synk / nigh half his later book. For if one would make ſuruey off reproches / vntrw ſurmiſes / and falſe accuſations / wherwith he hath frawght yt: beſide a nwe lode which he hath charged the ſecond edition off his firſt boke with: he ſhould (I ſuppoſe) finde / nigh one half ſpent in thoſe wares. Wherin he dealeth with me / as certein beaſtes; which purſued caſt forth behinde them an vntollerable Cicero. …. li. de nat. deorum.ſauour / therby to affray their hunters from further chaſing them. In deed / they are very vnpleaſant: but the good ſauour off the trwth / and off honeſt behauiour in thinges he accuſeth me off / hath (by the grace off God) ſo comforted all the ſenſes off my minde / that he hath not eſcaped by this pollicie.

Some off his accuſations / touche the cauſe: but the moſt part / touche yt not. Off this later kynd one ſort are off my maner of liuing▪ albeit he count yt a childiſhe kinde off confuting, that one ſhould leaue the cauſe, and take him ſelf to the perſon. Here / my miniſterie is diuerſlie Pag 25.accuſed: as that I did not ſeke for the ordre off prieſthood as it is called: for that is that he meaneth I ſhould hauehave done by othe or els departed the Colledge. The anſwer hereto is longer / then this pag. 799. pag. 709.treatiſe may embrace: which I am readie to exhibit before him / to whom it belongeth: becauſe I am prouoked / I humbly deſire him to receiue the cauſe. But in a word: yt ys a meer cauill. For the meaning off the ſtatute off the howſe / is to prouide that men ſhould not turne their ſtudies / to other profeſſions off law &c: but that there ſhould be to furniſh the Colledge off a numbre off preachers / off which I was one / as ſone as I entred. Nether was there any dutie of myniſterie / which the Colledg could require off me; that I was not inabled to doo according to the lawes of the churche off England / by vertue off that myniſterie / which I had receiued. So that the law yt ſelf (as that whoſe meaning was fulfilled euen with my entrie) did not require yt. Alſo the corruption off the law / or at the leaſt off his interpretation (binding men to beg a miniſtery and therby after a ſorte to teſtifie off them ſelues that they befit for yt) might after knowledg that I owght not to beg it / iuſtly kepe me back. By how muche more / I were worthie to be condemned / if (as he accuſeth) I had ambitiouſly deſired to be the Queenes maieſties diuinitie reader: for which / I neuer Pag. 586.opened lip. Yf I had / how knoweth he / I did yt ambitiouſly: who maketh yt lawful, to aſke yt. So that onles / he know my hart: my laboring Pag. 48.for it (yf any had bene) is iuſtified by his diuinity. The life / I anſwer to an other not vnlife: that I earneſtly deſired, the degree Pag. 781.off doctorſhip. Wherin beſide that I moued nothing / but yelded onelyonly to the requeſt off certein frindes: I had (before my grace propounded in the ſcholes) the aduiſe off more than a doſen learned miniſters. Who conſidering / that I had the office off a Doctorin the vniuerſitie: were off opinion / that (for the good they eſtemed might be done therby) I might ſwalow the fond and idle ceremonies / which accompanie yt. His fourth is / that I apag. 12. pag. 446.hauehave forſaken the miniſterie. wherunto I anſwer / as I bIn this boke pa. 154. li. 16.hauehave for them whom he likewiſe chargeth. His fift / that I my ſelfe cpa. 225.preaching before here and there where I thowght good, now condemne yt in others: the anſwer whereof / is partly page 45. line 17. off his / and partly page 41. line 20. off my boke. The laſt / dpa. 354.that I refuſed his conference: which is vntrwe. For beſide that I anſwered / that yt was meet the doctrine I had taught openly / ſhoulde be defended openly / : and beſide that alſo I went to two off the vniuerſitie Doctors / to be conferred with: I offered my ſelf to his priuat conference / which althowgh he had promiſed / yet vnderunder pretence that I was (as he ſaid) vncorrigible / he would not performe. The truth is / he offered priuat conference by writing: but hauing before experience off his vnfaithfulnes many waies / I refuſed yt. And thus muche to his accuſations / towching as well my comming to and goyng from the miniſterie: as alſo off my behauiour in yt. Of the moſt wheroff / there are diuers witneſſes: and off all / the Lord him ſelf bothe witnes and iudge / whoſe preſence in this defence I ſet before myne eies. Vnles peraduenture / that alſo may ſeem to appertein hether: that by defence off this cauſe / I pag. 173.woulde chuſe my ſelfe the place off my myniſtery. Wherof I lay euill foundations / which teache that no man may place him ſelf: but wait / for his calling: eſpecially when by his doctrine / I may feed in euerie paſture / and lightlie graſing or taking the vppermoſt of one / ſtreight way goo to an other.

In the other part of my life / after he had thruſt me out of the Colledge: he accuſeth me for going vp and downe doing no good, and liuing p. 241. 283at other mēs tables. that I was not idle / I ſuppoſe he knoweth to well: Whether well occupied or no / let it be iudged. I liued in deed / at other mens tables, hauing no hous nor wife of myne own: but not without their deſire / ād with ſmal delight of mine / for feare of euil tonges. And althowgh I were not able / to requite yt: yet towardes ſome I went abowte yt / inſtructing their children partely in the principles off religion / partly in other learning. His other accuſations / beſide the cauſe: are off my maner off writing. The matter is blamed: for that (as he ſaith) apag. 207yt conſiſteth wholy of other mens notes and collections, and that I hauehave bpa. 412.ſcarce red one off the autors which I hauehave alledged: yea and that I alſo cpag. 123.contēne them, namely maiſter; Nowels Catechiſm. And for the forme. It is blamed as vndutifull towardes the dpa. 1. 9.Archbiſhops, biſhops, &c. namely the epa. 423.Biſhop of Saliſbury, and himſelfe eſpecially. That off contempt off M. Nowels / and other mens workes: I deteſt as intollerable arrogancie. The other / wherin the queſtion is off great reading: I let pas. For yf he be learned / and I not / hauehave read them all and I ſcarce one: it will eaſely appear to the learned: beſide that (as I hauehave ſaid) it towcheth not the cauſe. OnelyOnly I admoniſh / that he doe yt hereafter / with better ground. For notwitſtanding (it is like he hunteth me with moe howndes / then I him: yet beſide thoſe places I confes my ſelfe to hauehave receiued / he noteth not many / and (that excepted off Ierome miſtaken for Muſculus) not one trewlie.

Let vsus therfore come to the forme. Where in my behauiour towardes the biſhop of Saliſbury / I would gladly know of him / what wordes he could hauehave preſcribed me: wherby I might more modeſtly hauehave diſſented from him. So that vnles the ſimple defence of the cauſe / be miſbehauiour: I am well aſſured / there is no dutie broken. For my ſpeches off the Archbiſhops / &c. generally / yf all ſhould be taken either in this or the former book againſt their perſons / which I ſpeak againſt their offices: his accuſation ſhould not be / altogither vntrew. But as condemning theſe offices or their corruptions / I make no conſcience to ſpeake contemptuouſly off them: ſo diuers off the perſons which beare them / both for their learning / ād proof of godlines ſhewed in times paſt / I will not ceaſe to reuerence / vntil which (I hope wil not be) by open enimitie againſt a knowne trwth / their own conſciēces ſhall think them ſelues vnworthy. And this to an indifferent reader / ſhal ſuffice: for towardes the D. I hauehave no remedie / which expoundeth all duetifull ſayinges counterfaict humilitie, glorious and Smooth wordes to get credit.

My dewtie towardes him / is accuſed diuerſly / of vnbrotherhood, pa. 4. 8. 9 12.vnfaithfulnes, wante of good will: made heinous / by circumſtance of periury and vnthankfulnes Wherein I wil not anſwer / that I vſed not you as maiſter / becauſe yow vſed not me as felow: but aſk pag. 1. 20. &c.yow / wherin this breache off duetie conſiſteth? Yf Iowe yow fidelitie, Iowe yt more vntounto the lorde: yf good will, the trwth muſt be preferred: yf the maſter of Trinitie Colledg be a frend / the trwth is more: Yf yow a brother, the trwth owght to be brother, ſiſter, mother and al. Againſt what part off trw fidelitie ys yt / to reproue him openly by writing: which had openly by writing ſpoken euill off that / which I was / and am perſwaded to be the euerlaſting trwth off God / and reuiled thoſe / which mainteined yt. Againſt what poinct / off good will / to hauehave ſhewed him the way / whom I iudged to be owt: to light him a candle / whom I ſaw in this poinct to grope in darcknes. And if I did yt ſharper / then your taſt can like off / beſide that bitter thinges / are often wholeſomer then ſweet: yow ſhould not thinck muche to be ſtricken with the back off the ſword / which hauehave ſmitten others with the edge / nor to be lightlie pricked vvith ſome empaire off your credit / vvhichwhich hauē thruſt others throwgh / in taking from them ſo muche as lay i… yow / al opinion both of godlines and learning. Yow doubt / whether I meant good faith when I called yow a brother: take heed leſt in giuing no credit vntounto others / yow leaue no place for others to giuegive any to yow. And if I had offended / in theſe: yet my vnthākfulnes / can not be great. Yow neuer gaue me any thing in my boſome or ſecretly / what yow hauehave giuen by ſound off trump and openly: can not be hidden. But my reproches, and (as yow often cal them) gybes: can not be excuſed. yt is not meet / that I ſhould my ſelf ſit in iudgement off my owne modeſtie: yt ys vnreaſonable alſo / that yow the partie grieued ſhould. For as ſelfeloue may blinde mine eyes / and (as parents in their children) not onelyonly cauſe me not to ſee the blemiſhe / but alſo to thinck yt an ornament: ſo may diſpleaſure daſel yours / and cauſe your iudgement to decline to muche on the one ſide. My conſcience dōth not hetherto accuſe me / in this behalfe: others alſo whom this hath miſliked / vvil peraduenture be more fauourable: if it be firſt conſidered / that yow account diuers for pleaſant ſpeaches / which are not / therby to auoide that yow could not anſwer. Of which ſort is that 767. line 6. and 576. line 23. Secondly / if yt be conſidered / that yow take ſome thinges otherwiſe: then I vvrote them. For example / where I note your homelie mirth of the curſt wife, and theef which ſtole the pag. 707.prieſts purſe, to hauehave bene vvith the baggipe and not vvith ether the harpe or lute: yow expound it / as thowghe I had taken my ſelf to the countrey wherin yow were born. Which verely I ment not / but had regard onelyonly to the greke prouerb / wherof Tully maketh In orat. pro Muraena.mention: that thoſe vvhichwhich could not come to the honour to handle the harpe, vvere content to vſe the bagpipe. Which is euident / in that I oppoſe countrey, not your countrey, your mirthe, to learned mirth. Here alſo (ſeemeth) ſhould be conſidered / how yow hauehave …oden vsus: vvith thoſe reproches / vvhichwhich yow accuſe me of. Wherin / not to waſte paper in reherſall of all: I will onelyonly giuegive a taſt of your later book, for that / off your other boke in which all know your intemperancie: yow denie there is any ſuche thing / becauſe I gathered yt not.pag. 16.

Adders and Sepentes ſwarme amongeſt. yovv pag. 50.

A mind ful of reuengement, 799. Ould rancour, 2. Stomackes ſuche, and arrogancy ſo great, 12. Stomacke ſwelling, 109. Boiling, 56. Spirit of yowrs burſteth, 37. He ſwelleth like the ſea 423. Reueale that lump off arrogancye and ambition, 467. deep diſſembled hypocricie, 467.

A face puffed vp with arrogancy and vaineglorie, 799.

Maner off writing ſpitefull malitious contemptuous owtragious, 12. Arrogant, 32. Scoulding, 12. pratling, 512. lying, 467. A ſhameles and wicked lie, 422. Tonges vnnatural 6. VVauering, wicked, wretched, 422. Hoat eloquence, 409. Hoate Rhetoricke, 45. Cynicall Rhetoricke, 391. Lucians Rhetorick, 489. Figure off lying, 812. VVhether will this venemous mouthe reache? 445. VVordes ſerpentine and viperous, 422. He bloweth owt, ſtormeth againſt me, 56. Roreth like a Lyon, 423.

Off a diuine become a ſcorneful ieſter, 577. Your veine off gybing and ieſting, 25. Flowting, 91. Arrogant ſcoffs and frumpes, 336. Heathniſh floutes and frumpes, 470. Boke peſtered with moe ſtoutes and ieſtes then hardinges. VVhat dronken poet, prophane Philoſopher, or boy off grammer ſchole knoweth not &c. 151. Heathniſh confuting, 25. Babiſhe abuſing ſcripture, 262. VVilfull deprauing, 16. Conuicted wickednes, 56.

The Archbiſhop hathe cauſe to thanck yow for your gentilnes, 374. A daunſing deuiſe, 337. Suche a mightie man in ſcripture, and ſo profound in all knowledge, pag. 9. I ſuppoſe yow vſe them as meanes to caſt vp your melancholy which yow call zeale, 39. But ſoft man a while yow do but dreame 209.

Let him take all theſe wherof diuers are often repeated / and if he be aſhamed off them / hide them: yet for any word off reproche I hauehave vſed in either off my bookes / I will finde both moe / and more bitter in his later boke / wheroff I hauehave not once made mention. Where alſo it owght not to be forgotten how his ſecond boke is as heauie with this kind off ſtuffe as his firſt: yf not haeuier. They ſay / it is better to be beaten aAriſt. in his Rhetorick ad Theodecten.ſecond: becauſe the hardnes off angre, is commonly broken vponupon the firſt. But (yt ſeemeth) the Anſwerer dronck in more off his angre / then he powred forth. Laſtly / let it be conſidered whether his anſwers are (for the moſt part) ſo ridiculous / that if he which is ſaid to hauehave aHer…clitus.wept ſo muche had replied vponupon him: he could eaſelier hauehave houlden hoat coles in his mouth / then hauehave abſteined from thoſe ſalt ſayinges / which he ſo ſore complaineth off. Here I omit / that the ſcripture doth diuers bAct. 23. 5 1. Cor. 4. 10. 2. Cor. 11. 19. 12. 13.times vſe this kinde off reprehending: Alſo that the moſt cAuguſt: 15. l. cōtra Fauſt. Manich. c. 4.modeſt ſpirit off all the auncient writers not permitteth onelyonly / but as yt were exhortethe / to a mercifull kinde off deriding. So that / the mind being pure: the thing yt ſelf vſed moderately to diſcredit ſin / can not be condemned.

His accuſations / vvhichwhich touche the cauſe follow: vvhere abbridging the magiſtrates autoritie / often repeted but neuer proued / ſhall be ſeen in the proper places. There / ſhall appeare that I hauehave browght it into no ſmaller roum: then the vvord off God hath ſhut it / and the beſt learned and godlieſt writers both nwe and ould hauehave plainly taught of yt. In which point / let yt be alſo here obſerued: how there be no wordes ſo fenced againſt all cauils / vvhichwhich the D. vvill not aſſay to depraue. For vvhere I cited examples to proue / that men are ſaid to doo thinges wherof they pag. 156,are the cheif and principall and not the onelyonly doers / and amongeſt them alledged that off Moſes which appointed officers by Exo. 18. 25 Deut. 1. 15 pag. 157.the peoples conſent: he feareth not to ſay / that I therby puſhe at the ciuil magiſtrat, ād infinuat that the prince may not appoint vnderunder officers without the peoples election. But let him anſwer / what is the inſtrument wherwith (I will not ſay) I puſhe: but ſo much as towche yt with my litle fingar? ys it becauſe I ſay / thoſe gouernours were choſen with conſent of the people? the ſcripture (as is after ſhewed) doth manifeſtly proue yt. Or did I euer teache it in pulpit / pag. 198. off this boke. Decad 5. ſerm. 4.mention it in diſputation / defend it in talk / wherby theſe wordes might with more likelihood / be haled vntounto ſuche a ſenſe? what would this man hauehave done (trow yow) if I had (as Maiſter Bullinger doth) vpō that place of Moſes concluded / that the peoples conſent / owght to be in the election off their Paſtor. Not vnlike to this / is that wherby (vponupon a rule brought and applied as well by other learned men / as by me to the Eccleſiaſticall election) he would inſinuate: that I meant yt ſhould be tranſlated to the ciuill eſtate. Where appeareth: that there is no ſparke off equitie in him. For if the rule were giuen generally / then my applying of it onelyonly / to Eccleſiaſticall elections / doth rather call yt from being vnderſtanded off the ciuil: if it be giuen of it alone / then it is clere that I vſed it accordingly. Beſide that I hauehave ſhewed / that it is far otherwiſe in the ciuill then in the Eccleſiaſticall gouernement: and that thinges vnlawful in one / are notwithſtanding lawful in the other. But thus muſt I reſtore that I neuer toke: and be Pſal. 69. 4. Pſal. 35. 11 pa. 10. 14. 118. 171. 195.accuſed off thinges vvhichwhich I not onelyonly neuer did, but not ſo muche as knovv off. Here alſo falſeth / an other accuſation of flatterie off the people, with iniurie to the magiſtrate. Where him ſelfe gyueth, me at leaſt this teſtimonie / that I hauehave bene euil ſcholed in that craft: which hauehave choſen maſters / that can do ſo litle for me. Yf the ſtate off our commen wealth had bene ſuche / as wherin the people had born the ſway: his accuſation vntrw / ſhould yet hauehave had ſome colour off trwth.

An other accuſation / is off wrong in not ſetting downe his boke: pag. 2. 16. 27. 72. 89. 280. 593. 656.as one looth it ſhould be compared, and for fear my corrupt dealing ſhould appear. But this accuſation / lieth againſt the moſt part of learned men: which hauing confuted aduerſaries off the trwth / hauehave not onelyonly not ſet downe there bokes / but not giuen their readers ſo particular addres for conference / as I did. Here therfore / ether let him abſolue me: or condemn me / with them. That I did yt not in ſuche reſpect as he ſaith / I hauehave proteſted: the truth wheroff ſhall now appear. And withall / that notwithſtanding his ſetting downe: let the reader iudge whither he vſeth (as he ſaith off me) friuolous replies, childiſh collections, fraudulent deprauing off my boke. Beſide that he hath paſſed by diuers reaſons off mine vntowched: pag 16.yea and as ſhal (God willing hereafter appeare) guilfully left out of his own boke / in one or two places. And becauſe I am entred into his dealing / hauing bene tied now full two yeares / to turn this ſtone of his writinges: it wil not be amis to admoniſh of ſome of his practiſes / wherby the reader may the better know how to turn himſelf in them / ether preſent or to come / if he kepe on the ſome courſe. In the reſte therfore off his boke / beſide reproches / furmiſes / &c: one part is ſpent / in naked affirmacions withowt proof / vented often by queſtions etherfond or from the purpoſe / and in dry teſtimonies off men: both which are (as other his furniture) repeated / and that ſometimes again and again. That where the Cuckow / trobleth but once a year: he with his vntunable repetitions off one thing to the ſame purpoſe / trobleth all the year long. Yet hath he / eueryevery hand while: to be ſhort.

In his teſtimonies / beſide that yt ſhall appeare / that ſo many as make to the cauſe they are almoſt eueryevery one ether falſified / or drawen from the meaning of the autors: yt is firſt to be obſerued / that to anſwer the places off ſcripture alledged / yt is verie like that he firſt turneth to Maiſter Caluin / if he be againſt him he goeth to aſke fauour at other: if no body anſwer nothing / yet he bringeth ſondry times euen that nothing / that is to ſay which maketh not for him / ſometime alſo againſt him. Secondly / where in his former boke / he propoundeth certein thinges / as his own: not able to maintein them in this / he callethe for the autors aſſiſtance / of whom he hath not ſo muche borowed them / as taken them againſt their willes. yet he counteth yt vaine glorie, to take pag. 20…owt off an autor, and to conceale his name Notwithſtanding / if he had knowen from whom his collections came / which he vſeth / and had bene thankfull to his autors / in that ſort he ſaith we owght: we ſhould often hauehave had in the margent / for Auguſtin, Ambroſe, Chryſoſtome, &c. Pigghius / Hoſius / Harding / &c. To let pas diuerſe reaſons I gaue him / which he neuer thāked me for: but hideth them as well as he can / by taking them vp before hand / or he came to the place where I giuegive them. Thirdly where his autoritie is nameles / and goethe vnderunder this generall title / other learned men thinck otherwiſe, a learned man ſaith ſo: hauehave yt for ſuſpected / off popery. For that / in ſome off thoſe places: he can hauehave no other autors but Papiſtes / as I am perſuaded. Laſt off all / that he doth often bately recite them / vvithowt applying them to his matter: or gathering his argument off them. The cauſe vvheroff is / for that they are not hable / to beare any argument / the vanity wherof / vvould not forthewith appeare / if it vvere gathered. Which is manifeſt / for as muche as vvhere any colour off argument dothe but peep / there he preſſeth them diligently: vvhichwhich practiſe he vſeth in his other proofes / albeit he preciſely reprehendeth it in the autors off the Admonition.

Touching the other part of that which remaineth in his boke / ſtanding ether of his reaſons againſt our cauſe / or anſweres off the reaſons againſt his …in bothe yow may obſerue / that the prouing off that in queſtion / by that which is likewiſe dowbted of / occupieth a great roume. In his anſwers to mine / he will often acknowledge no argument: Becauſe yt is not ſet down in the preciſe ether order off propoſitions / or other exact form of Sillogiſm. Which (I thinck) is a ſtreighter law / then any writer hetherto hath bene bound vntounto: yet I will not refuſe it / if he vvil giuegive me an example: the matter hauing now bene ſo largely debated / to the vnderſtanding of the ſimpler ſort. Let him therfore / if he dare truſt his cauſe: deal that way / an other vvhile. As for diuers particular faultes / in his lodgick / and grammer throwgh euill tranſlation / conſidering that they bring no preiudice to the truth in queſtion / and hurting not the vnlearneder / are quickly eſpied off the other: I am well content / to hould back. Thus muche / to the Anſwerers both generall and particular accuſations and ſurmiſes: in ſuche ſort / a… I meane (God willing) neuer vponupon any his importunity to returne vntounto againe. For as for that page 21. line 3. and ſuche other as hauehave manifeſt confutation in the places owt off vvhichwhich they are raiſed / they are moſt vnworthy the naming.

Hauing ſpoken thus muche for their cauſes eſpecially / which miſinformed by the D. hauehave no good opinion of the diſcipline now propounded: yt remaineth to ſay ſomething for theirs / vvhiche acknowledging yt for the trwth off God / doe not ſtretch forth their handes to bring yt in / or at the leaſt / not with that endeuour which owght to be. Wherin yt ſeemeth they doe not ſo fully conſider that before alledged / of the vſe of the diſcipline / the ſame in the churche / that the wal abowt the citie / or hedg about the orcheiard. Yf we thinck / that men vvhiche vvoulde be ſafe from their enemies / need not greatly to trauail after a wal / or they which vvould hauehave their tender plantes bring plentifull fruict and be vntowched off hurfull beaſtes / not muche to labour after a hedg or diche for ſafegarde of them / then we may alſo thinck / that the church / and the doctrine of the Apoſtels wherupon the church is builded / may long continw and floriſh vvithowt the diſcipline lefte by them. But if / the one be not to be looked for: the hoping for the other / will but deceiue vsus. Whereof if there were no proof / but our own experience: the caſe is clearer / then can be wel denied. For vvhereof cometh it that ſo many thowſandes (I will not ſay of men and women) but of townes and villages remain in ſuche ignorance of all dutie towards God / and their neighbour: that the eſtate off their ox (vvhiche vvith his laſt breath ſhal end his labour / and hear no more the voice of the whip) is a thouſand times better then theirs / vvhom euerlaſting tomentes of body and ſowl vvait for / and muſt aſſuredly enſue if they ſo remaine. Cometh it not hereof / that in ſteed of a learned miniſtery / vvhiche ſhoulde ſhewe them the right way / be thruſt vppon them at the pleaſure / or permiſſion off the biſhop / and appetite off the patrone / blinde guides vvhichwhich ſcarce knowe a foot of it them ſelues: yea which ſometimes (as cometh to pas in ſondry popiſhe prieſtes that remaine) endeuour to turn them out off the way / if happily any were entred? Wheroff cometh it that off thoſe which hauehave able miniſters to feed them: diuers townes can not yet get owt of this condēnation, ys it not thereof / that ſome paſtors like couetous nourſes charging them ſelues with moe / then they are able to nource / ſuffer them all to ſtarue? that other ſome more vnnaturall then the dragons them ſelues (which laie owt their breſtes / vntounto their yong) by diſpenſation / turn awaie their faces quite from them? whoſe mouthes / are almoſt neuer open to teache / but vvhen their handes are likewiſe to receiue? And if ſome in a good intent to help many / lend one hande to one congregation / and his other vntounto another: yet when ether of them require both handes to be pulled owt off the mire wherin they ſtick ſo faſt / his fault being a great deal les then the others / the peoples condemnation remaineth the ſame. Wheroff alſo ys y… / that in diuers off thoſe Townes where the goſpell hath daily ſhined: the darcknes of ignorance / hath not bene put to flight. Cometh yt not thoroff / that many ſpeaking ſmally to purpoſe off the text they handle / or blowing vp their ſermons ether with poetes fables / ſayinges off Philoſophers and that oft in ſtraunge language / amaze them rather with a wōndermēt of their learning / then edifie thē in faith and trw repentance. And not that onelyonly / but therby alſo bring them owt of al taſt with all ſimple and plain kind off teaching: ſo that they which doe not ſo / are called by reproche Engliſh Doctors. Which by oftē meetings of the miniſters / in exercice off Prophecie or interpretacion of ſome ſcripture / through mutual cenſures and admonitions: would eaſely be remedied.

Wheroff is it / that euen vvhere the goſpel is ſoundly and abūdandly taught: knowledg hath not accordingly folowed. Ys it not therof / that the principles / and groundes of religiō are not by Catechiſm laid forth: that thoſe of whoſe ether capacity or diligēce yt is doubted / are not (that a ſupply may be made) particulerly examined? Wheroff cometh yt that Arians / Valentinians and Anabaptiſtes / in diuers ſortes with ſuche other deteſtable heretikes: are ſo rife / in many places of the land. Ys it not therof / that there is no elderſhip / which might aſſiſt the paſtor / to eſpie them out: no paſtorable by ſubſtancial reaſons to conuince them: no autoritie there to decide of them / or after deciſion by eccleſiaſticall cenſures to puniſh them. Wheroff cometh yt / that horrible blaſpheming the holy and moſt reuerend name of God / quarreling and fighting / dronckennes / filthy ſpeaking / fornicatiō / adultery / ſlaundering and ſuche like / run ouer almoſt in eueryevery place / off which ſome are ſo open that there is no night or corners ſowght to hid them / but are doen in the high ſtreates / and at noon daies: yea (which is fearful) that often there is more daunger to them that reproue theſe faultes / then to thoſe which cōmit them. Ys it not hereof that there is no elderſhip to watche ouer theſe offences / to admoniſh the offenders / and by eccleſiaſticall cenſures to correct them. Wheroff cometh it / that in ſo many excellent lawes / prouided againſt roges and beggers: there are yet (to the manifeſt breach of the law of God / and haſard of the commen wealth) ſuch nombers. Ys it not heroff / that the office off Deacons / which god had ordeined for that purpoſe (the bare name remaining) is aboliſhed: and that the Lord will giuegive no bleſſing to thoſe good lawes / becauſe his order is neglected. Finally hereof it cometh / that hauing a gracious Prince mainteining / and her honorable Counſall fauoring the preaching of the goſpell / in ſo long and quiet peace / apt for the furtherance off yt: there is notwithſtanding ſo ſmal fruict that (ſauing a few which the lord hath gathered) for the generall eſtate of the Realme / the Goſpell may ſeem hetherto rather to hauehave ſhined for further condemnation of it / then for light or heat of ſaluation / ioined therwith, what price therfore we ſet of the glory off God / what accompt we make off the ſaluacion of our countrey: that eſtimacion we muſt kepe / off the diſcipline off God / left vntounto vsus by his holy Apoſtels.

This if it were deeply weighed: it would cauſe vsus to breakthrowgh the lets which (I ſee) ſtay ſome / and make other ſome to faint in the furtherance of this cauſe. For ſome whiche deſire that this cauſe might gaine / throwgh a mind abhorring from contention / eſpecially inward / an with them of the ſame religion: ſtande further of from yt / then otherwiſe they would. Wherin I willingly acknowledge Rebeccas affection: a figure off the churche off God. For notwithſtanding ſhe praied / vntounto the lord for children: yet feeling them ſtriue within her Womb / Geneſ. 25. 22.wiſhed ſhe had neuer conceiued. But alas / the ſtate off men is not ſo happy: to obteine any excellent thing / without ſtrift. Errors and falſhood hauehave often times eaſy entrance / whileſt the huſbandmen ſleep: but becauſe the ennemy alwaies waketh / the trweth muſt fight / or euer ſhe / can get any thing. wherin / to pas by an infinite number of examples: that which is proper to this place (off the daungerous aſſaultes which this cauſe ſuffered at Geneua) ys worthy off your conſideration. For albeit the contention there was not in Iudgement onelyonly / and in wordes / but with great diſorders and tumultes / to the preſent daunger off the citie: yet M. Caluin / and other faithfull ſeruantes of God / In M. Cal. Epiſtles.offred them ſelues not onelyonly to los off their miniſtery / and baniſhment / but euen to death / rather then they would goe one foot back / from that truth off the diſcipline / which they had learned owt off the word off God / which had bene / raſhly doen / if the matter had bene off ſo ſmal importance: as that (for redeming off peace) they might hauehave let the cauſe of the diſciplin fal / or laid it aſide / vntill a fitter time. There are (God be praiſed) no tumultes nor vprores with vsus / and I hope there ſhal be none: but as yt is not lawful for vsus to moue any / ſo to withdraw the hand from defenſe off the cauſe / for feare of them to be moued by others / is againſt dutie.

There are others / which as the eſpies off the land of Canaan Nomb. 13 28. &c./ confeſſing it good and profitable for the churche: yet in reſpect of the manifold lets / affirme it a thing impoſſible: and therby not onelyonly diſcorage them ſelues / but weaken the handes off other. And euen here alſo / I ſee Rebecca again. For yt appeareth by the lordes anſwer vntounto her / tvvo peoples ſhould be deuided ovvt of her bovvls: that ſhe was in ſome diſpair off hauing ſtrenght / to Geneſ. 25. 23.be deliuered of her deſired ſeed / conſidering the daungerous wreſtlings and ſtruglinges / in her womb. And in deed / if we conſider our ſelues / if we look vponupon our own armes: I graunt the walles againſt it / are higher then will be ſcaled / the gates and barres / are ſtronger then wil be broken throwgh / the children come to the birth / there wil be no ſtrenght to bring forth. For herein caſting our accōptes / we muſt wait for not onelyonly the miſliking of our brethern / which be miſled / the hatred of the obſtinat Papiſtes which ſee their kingdō vnreparable / if this get place: but the deadly enimities off Hypocrites / and Atheiſtes / which wil not ſuffer their vntamed luſtes to come vnderunder any yoke off correction / nor their loſe affections off riotous pleaſures / proud ambition / and vnſatiable couetouſnes to be bound / vvith any bandes off wholeſome diſcipline.

But of the other ſide / if we look vntounto the lord / and his mighty arme which not onelyonly with a blaſt of his mouth ſtriketh the walles / and breaketh the gates in peeces / but alſo maketh the high walles to fall / and the yron gates to open of their owne accord / which maketh not onelyonly the weak / but euen the barē women to bring forth: No difficulty or impoſſibilitie in the iudgement off men owght to turne vsus from any lawfull endeuour / to promote the cauſe. The example off the wall in Ieruſalem finiſhed / notwithſtanding al the enimies: ſerueth here / for our confirmation. For if the lord / ſtretched forth his hand for furtherance of that material wall: he will not in the aduauncing off this ſpiritual / hould it in his boſome. Yf he forſoke not his ſeruantes / vnderunder heathen Princes: he will not be wanting to them vnderunder Chriſtian. Hetherto belongeth / the example in Geneua: before mentioned. The whole eſtate off the Citie almoſt / from the higheſt vntounto the loweſt (amongeſt whom were alſo the greateſt part off the miniſters) was bent againſt yt: two or three ſimple men ſcarce able to traine their legges after them / hauing no other armour then the trwth and a good conſcience / ſtand for it. Yf fleſh and bloud ſhould here ſit in iudgement / the field were loſt / or euer yt were begun: the freendes off the diſcipline / ſhould (for that they toke the defenſe in hand) be accounted fooles / for that they would not cōpound the matter / mad men. But what was the iſſue? Verily the Lord ſo magnified his word / in the hand of his ſeruātes / that after trial off their patience by diuers troubles / the Capitaines againſt yt / came to ſhameful end / a number yealded / the reſt that continued their enemitie / durſt not ſhew yt / the trwth yt ſelf was eſtabliſhed / and ſo (to the ſinguler commendation off that citie) remaineth. And ſhall we / in ſo great a nomber whoſe heartes the Lord hath inclined to fauour this cauſe deſpaire? eſpecially ſeing yt ys eaſier to be eſtabliſhed with vsus / then with them: and may here be ſetled / withowt ſo muche as a dog mouing his tong / which was not there / withowt daungerous vprores. For where no wholſom law can pas there / onles the moſt part conſent: onelyonly / the hundreth part with vsus / weigheth down all the reſt.

Yt remaineth / that as the Iwes in the wal off Ieruſalem / did eueryevery one according to the abilitie the Lord had bleſſed them Nehem. 3with builde his part: ſo thoſe / whoſe hartes the lord hath lightened with the knowledg of this truth / ſhould as their callings / and meanes which the lord hath giuen them will ſerue / lay their handes to the work. That thoſe whom the lord hath giuen fauour or acces vntounto her maieſtie / would ſet before their eies the exāple of that worthy courtier Nehemias: which (forgetting his priuat profit and preferment) for full recompence of all his faith Neh. 2. 5.full ſeruice vntounto his Prince / was glad to obtein at his hand the building vp of the walles off the citie of God: and therfore not to reſerue the grace and credit they hauehave with her highnes / for their owne matters / but to beſtow yt vponupon the Lordes. That the Prince her ſelfe / woulde conſider how (to let pas the daunger vntounto her ſowle) vnworthy yt ys off her honour / if throwgh vntrw reportes ether againſt the cauſe / or fauourers therof / ſhe turne away her eare from hearing / and taking knowledge of it: ſeing a heathen king / did not admit ſuche rumors againſt that which concerned the glory off God: althowgh they were offred thick and three fould / and that by his one coutrey men / againſt the Iwes / whiche were but ſtraungers. Finally / that we all continually / pray to the lord: that he would vouchſafe to open their eies whiche are yet ignorant in this behalf / confirme thoſe which hauehave knowledge / and confound thē (if any be) which ether for honour / or lucres ſake / willingly bend thē ſelues / againſt the trueth.

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Title page – Dedication

To the Churche off England / and all that LoueLove the trueth in yt: Thomas Cartwright Wiſheth mercy / and peace / from God our Father / and from our Lorde Ieſus Chriſte.