A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Index
Throwgh deſire off making no great chaunge off the order laid forth by the Doctor / vvherby the reader ſhould be muche troubled in collatiō of our bokes: and partly for that my papers vvent ſo ſone to the print… vvherby I could not correct that my ſelf aftervvard miſliked at is come to pas that there are diuers thinges vvherin by order, it might hauehave bene, better prouided for memory. VVhichWhich, I hauehave partly endeuoured to help, by this direction: vvherby yt ſhall not be vneaſy, to finde any off the principal pointes, conteined in this book.
THe ſcripture is a perfect rule off all actions / which can fall into mās life / aſwell in defining thinges / vnnariable / as in giuing rules / wherby thinges variable by circunſtance / may be compaſſed page lvij. &c. Whether refer that / wherin is ſhewed what of Moſes law remaineth / page xciij. Likewiſe that the Actes of thapoſtles / are neceſſary for vsus to folow page clv. As appeareth namely / in the gouernement off the church diſputed throwghowt the whole book: and in that communitie they vſed / which is not now Anabaptiſticall cc. viij. Hether alſo refer / that yt is the vertue off a good law: to leaue as litle as may be / in the diſcretion off the iudge xciiij. Alſo that yt ys one thing to be expreſſed: and an other / to be commaunded in the ſcripture xlv.
Wherupon the argument off auto…ie off the ſcripture / is good 43. 81: But nawght from men: eſpecially in diuine matters / xviij. and xlvij. Whether refer that the Godly writers and holie martyre died in error vj. Wheroff the example browght by me off free will / is handled 54. an other browght by the D. off the millenaries althowgh he in part / ſlaundereth the ould fathers in that behalf delij.
Diſcipline Ciuil.
THe magiſtrat ought to be ſeuerer / in puniſhing offēces vnderunder the goſpell: then vnderunder the law cxj. cxviij. Neglecters off the word / are puniſhable by the word lxx. The law off capitall puniſhements / remaineth xcviij. Contemners off the word / ought to be put to death lxviij. Murtherers cij. Inceſtuous / and adulterous perſons c. The puniſhing off the breaches off the ſecond Table by death / and not off the firſt: is to begin / at the wrong end cxvij.
Diſcipline Eccleſiaſticall.
THe Eccleſiaſticall diſcipline is preſcribed in the word / as the doctrine ccccxl. Aſwell vnderunder the goſpell as vnderunder the law ibid. Amplified by compariſon off the Ark / Tabernacle / Temple ccccxliiij. Confirmed by examples off Dauid / and Salomon / which attempted nothing in the church gouernement / without the expres word off God / ccccxliiij. Alſo / off others / lxxxvj.
That the form theroff / owght not to be allwaies / according to the forme off the cōmon wealth cxxx. clix. ccxcviij. dciiij. That yt ys not allwaies conuenient / that the form of the commen wealth / ſhould beframed to the form off the churche gouernement ccxxvij. That the churche gouernement / is one off the three markes off the church liij. That yt is ſafely taken / from the Apoſtels times: and daūgerouſly from the firſt 500. yeares after them. That the externall gouernement off the church / is euill diſtinguiſhed from the ſpiritual. That / yt hindereth not the ciuil diſcipline ij.
Calling.
THe callinges vn… the myniſtery / are defined off in the word of God. For tha… … giftes neceſſary for the gouernement off the church / fall into the offices preſcribed in yt 462. Where are reherſed the proper giftes / wherby they are ſeuered amōgeſt thē ſelues. This is alſo ſhewed / by that it is not lawfull / to diminiſh thoſe the lord hath ſet: and therfore not to ad vntounto them cccclxiiij. Likewiſe by the demaunde the Phariſies made vntounto Iohn ccccxxxvj.
A calling lawfull / and yet extraordinary. page xxx…j. The Apoſtels / Prophetes / and Euangeliſtes are euil diſtinguiſhed / by the D. cccvij. There can be none off theſe functions now withowt an extraordinary calling ccciij. The ſame coulde not be a biſhop / Euangeliſt and Apoſtle at once cccxviij. Epaphroditus was no Apoſtle / in that ſenſe that S. Peter was ccciiij. An Euangeliſt could not withowt his fault be made a biſhop much les could an Apoſtle 321. Timothe was an Euangeliſt and no biſhop cccxij. The abuſing off the writers / both ould / and nue: to proue Apoſtles / Prophetes / and Euangeliſtes ordinary miniſters cccxxvij. What maner a men they were / which after thoſe ſent foorth into the whole world / called them ſelues Apoſtles cccviij. Hereupon / we refuſe the callinges of Archbiſhop otherwiſe called Metropolitā / and our kinde of biſhop / Archdeacō / and deane: as thoſe which taken euen for the very principall church officers / hauehave no ground in the word of God Proued / in that they are conteined in nether of the places off the Epheſians / or Corinthians / where al the miniſteries Eccleſiaſticall are deſcribed / ccc…xlix. ccccliij. Whether refer / that the archbiſhop and biſhop are nue miniſteries ccccxxxviij. Likewiſe that the firſt ſtep / to this kind off biſhoprik / began at Alexandria: and not in Sion or Ieruſalem / and that it was after the Apoſtles times dxlviij. Alſo the firſt ſtep of preheminence to an archbiſhoprik / ouer many biſhops: was but a litle before the Nicene Councel cccclxxxv.
That both this biſhop and archbiſhop / had their beginning by bare cuſtome: and not by the inſtitution off God / cccclxxxv. dlxviij. Theſe two laſt pointes being expreſlie ſhewed off the biſhops / and archbiſhops: may be eaſely vnderſtanded to be true in the Archdeacons / and deanes by that dj. dxxxvj. diiij. Yt ys further ſhewed off the archbiſhop that h… was not (in ſteed of Archflamins) inſtituted by S. Peter (as … pretended) cccclxix. Where is ſhewed that there were no Ar…lamins vnderunder the Romain Empire cccclxxj. not in England / eſpecially in the time ſuppoſed cccclxxij. We refuſe them alſo / for that they exerciſe dominion. Forbidden preciſely vntounto Eccleſiaſticall perſons 20. Mat. and 1▪ Pet. 5. ccccxxj. ccccxxxj. Declared in the example off S. Peter which had no autoritie giuen him aboue the reſt off the Apoſtles / but was in ſuch reſpect equall dcvij.
Here are confuted / the endes off inſtituting this autoritie. Whereoff one is pretended / to aſſemble rhe Synodes / and to propound the matters dcxij. dlxxxij. Wherto belongeth / that of thoſe otherwiſe equall / it is meet (to auoid confuſion) that one by choiſe of the reſt / ſhould rule the action: and that yt is not meet / that this ſhould be perpetuall ccccxxij. Which is con… …ed by the example off S. Peter / choſen therto by the Apoſtles / and not perpetually dcxcvij: made plaine by the examples off the elder / and french churches now dxi…x. The other pretended cauſe is to remedie contentions ccccxlv…ij▪ dxlix. dl. dlxxi…ij dlxxxij. Here alſo is ſhewed / that he is the cauſe off contention dlxxix. Which being ſhewed in the biſhop and archbiſhop: perteineth in part alſo / to the archdeacon / and deane.
Further againſt this dominion ſerueth / that they are fellow ſeruantes / fellow brethren in office ccccxx viij. dxlv.
Alſo / for that order / and degrees / ſtand withowt them ccccxxvij dcij. This ys further declared by compariſon of the elder archbiſhops / and biſhops with ours dxciiij. dcxliiij. Namely of Cyprians dxlvj. and Ieroms dlxviij. Likewiſe of the elder Archdeacons / with ours dij. And deanes with ours diiij.
That the Nicene Councell / is far from mainteining / the autoritie off our metropolitan dlxij. So are the Councels off Antioch / and Arles dlxv. That Epiphanius Archbiſhop / ſtood not in autoritie: but in excellency off giftes dlx.
Here vponupon we condemn (as in all Eccleſiaſticall miniſters) ſo in theſe foure / al loftie titles: as thoſe which are annexed to dominion. Wherunto perteineth: that names are not alwaies indifferēt 408 And firſt / the giuing high titles of ciuil honour: as thoſe which put a differē / … betwene the ciuil ād eccleſiaſt. officer ccccvj. ccccxxiij: As forbid▪ … preciſely 22. Luk. cccciiij / namely / that the biſhop / Archbiſhops / …nd (by the ſame reaſon) deanes / ought not to be called lordes / hauing regard to the vſe of our contrey ccccvij. dclv. Alſo that the title off Prince / part off the Archbiſhops / and Archdeacons name: breaketh vponupon the poſſeſſion off the ciuil magiſtrate ccccvij.
Secondly / in Eccleſiaſticall titles / we denie vntounto them to be called heades off the churches. Where is ſhewed firſt / that that title agreeth vntounto no ſimple creature. The cauſes wheroff are ccccxij. The abſurdities which folow the giuing off it to any other then to our San. Chriſt / ccccxj. The approbation off writers nue and ould that he is onelyonly head ccccxiij. The ſame ſhewed off the name off Archbiſhop / cccix. Hetherto belongeth that it was not ſo ſone in the weſt partes / as in the Eaſt / ccccxciiij That yt is not ſhewed to hauehave bene giuen to any (but with condemning off yt) in any alowed writer vntill about 380. yeares / ccccxcv. Wherto perteineth / that nue writers / gyuing yt to miniſters of elder times / are ſhewed to hauehave doen it according to the times / wherin / not whereoff they wrote / cccclxxxj. ccccxcv. Likewiſe / that the name metropolitan / is not off the ſame value with archbiſhop. cccclxxxvij. And that it is not ſhewed to hauehave bene / before the Councell off Nice ccccxciiij. Alſo that the Councels off Carthage / houlden about ccl. and 400. yeares: doe forbid this name ccccxcviij. Finally hether perteineth / that off the counterfait canons / off the Nicene Councell handled cccclxxxviij. And the counterfait book off Ambroſe / which mentioneth the archbiſhop ccccxcj. Likewiſe the name of Arch deacon / is not ſhewed / vntill about 400. yeares / page 502. Nor off the deane / vntill about the ſame time / page diiij.
Furthermore / vponupon this that dominion is forbidden them: is alſo forbiddē / their other pomp off lije. Wherof vntounto the three cauſes aſſigned in my former book xcviij: Is added the fourth …0 off this book. This ys ſhewed by compariſon off the elder biſhops with ours in their apparel / houſes / houſhould ſtuf / fare / traine off men dcxlxij / &c. Further that the moſt part off the riches / wherwith this pomp is mainteined: is the commen treaſure off the church / for mainteinance off the mi…ſters which want / off the poore / and off the vniuerſities: and th… in this point / they hauehave ſucceded vntounto thoſe / which got the … ſacriledge dcxlix.
Further we refuſe the archbiſhop and archdeacon: for that they hauehave larger charges / then they are or can be ſufficient for. Hetherto perteineth that all the ordinary miniſters owght to be appointed to a place: and that that place is a particular congregacion / no dioceſe / nor prouince / ccxcvj. ccclx Where the D. corruption drawen from the Papiſtes is confuted. Hether alſo perteineth / that Denis did not deuide pariſhes / Prouinces and dioceſes ccclviij. Hether alſo perteineth / that by the word off God there may and owght (if the caſe require) be moe biſhops in one particular congregation / …n one dxxvij. The traces theroff in the church / long after the Apoſtles time / page dxxviij. dl….
Likewiſe that there owght / (by the word off God) to be in eueryevery particular congregation one biſhop / dxv. Hether refer the cauſes / off the falling away of this order: which were naught dxx. Likewiſe / that care ouer churches / inferreth not neceſſarily charge ouer them dcxxij. That the iuriſdiction they had owt off their particuler churches: was nothing but a reuerend eſtimation page dxxxij. Hetherto perteineth / the vſe off the church / long after the Apoſtels times ccc. Alſo that the elder biſhops / were called biſhops off pariſhes cccclxxv…ij. The examples off Demetrius dxlij. off Cyprians biſhop / a…moſt through the whole 3. chapter off the laſt Tra. off Cornelius 540. 556. of Dionyſius Alexandrinus 558 Gregorie 5…9 Peter Alexandrinus …60, Athanaſius 56… Ambroſe 492. Al which alledged by the D. as biſhops off prouinces / were ether of one particular church / or off the churches in one onelyonly ci…e: or (at the leaſt) had far les compas by the twentith part / then our biſhops. This vſe is ſhewed to hauehave continued in the Deacons diij.
We are alſo confirmed in this refuſal / by autoritie off a nombre off the reformed churches dcxviij. off the Godly writers / which hauehave particulerly ſpokē againſt / ether all / or ſome of theſe offices. As Ierome 598. M. Wicleue 616. Luther 617. Barnes / and Hooper 526. Bucer 556. 567. 662. Muſculus 549. 598. Caluin 566. 613. &c. 629. The biſhop off Saliſbury 568. Beza 505. Bullinger 426. 567. Hetherto belonge … that the anſwerers reaſons in this cauſe / are drawen (almoſt … from the Papiſtes. Namely from Pighius / Harding / and other …piſtes / againſt the Catholikes 414. 426. 446 573. 616. 622. And from Harding / againſt the biſhop of Saliſbury. 425. 430. 453. 472. 497. 500 599 601. 611. 612.
Eccleſiaſticall election.
IT owght to be / with conſent of the church: firſt for that yt ys / the inſtitution off God. This is ſhewed owt off the 14. Actes 194. Here is diſputed off the ſignification of lifting vp of handes 199 Alſo out of the 8. 1. Corinthes 209. and Actes 6 134. for that the lighteſt charges off the church were not doen but by conſent off yt: where the exception taken from Pigghius is anſwered. Likewiſe owt of j. Actes 12…. Conſidering that in that / Election which was made immediatly by the lord / the churches iudgement was not paſſed by. This ys ſtrenghtned by Nomb. 8. 220. Leuiticus …. Nombers 20. 222. Hetherto perteineth that which the D. alledgeth to the contrary owt off Titus 1. and Timoth. 1. 5▪ cclxv. drawen from Pighius cclxx. Whereto belongeth that the ſcripture ſometime attributeth to the chief in an action / that is cōmon to moe then to them: confirmed by the manner off ſpeaking both in ſcripture and otherwiſe: alſo by the iudgemēt of Caluin / Muſculus 196. Beza 135. Bullinger 197. Further that which the D bringeth owt off 13 Act. taken from Hoſius cclxxxiij. Likewiſe that the form off the Election ſhould be other now: then in time off the Apoſtels ccxxxv. Where the number off Chriſtians / and (throwgh the nomber) tumult in elections is confuted. Alſo that of the difference of religion and maners / betwene Chriſtians then and now: taken from Hoſius ccxlj▪ Where is handled / the ſhutting forth of papiſtes / Dronkards and Whoremongers Further that the eſtate off the church: was not then popular ccxlix That the confirmation off the election by the magiſtrat / altereth not the forme cclxij Hether alſo refer / the counterfait Ambroſe: drawen from Pighius / off the diuerſyty off gouernement off the church then / and now cclix.
This is confirmed / of the effectes off the church Election: becauſe yt breedeth aſſurance off the miniſter / in his calling: maketh the people / more obedient to him / as Muſculus confeſſeth cclx. Cauſeth the Godly / to louelove him …: and bridleth the Hypocrites from outrage againſt him …xix. Hetherto refer that the D bringeth off the ſuppoſed contention / that this will breed cxxxiiij cxlvij cclxxxviij. Likewiſe of the compariſon / betwene the effectes off our biſhops elections: with thoſe off the churches cxlvij. ccxxvij. Likewiſe that the errors off the churches election: may be commodiouſly remedied by the churches hard by / by the Synodes / and (if they faile) by the magiſtrat 23….
That it is the churches liberty as Muſculus ſaith cclx
Alſo / that the conſent off the parliament / touching the biſhops election: ys not the churches eccleſiaſtical election: Where the D doth but mocke the church ccxxv.
That certein thinges / ar variable in this election: hindereth not the perpetuitie off the churches cōſent cxxxvij That the ignorance off the church is not ſuch / as both hinder the churches election cxi. cxlvj. ccxxix. Nether corruption of religion ſuch cxivij. Nor of affections. ccxxix.
This is alſo ſhewed by compariſon off the churches election with that which is cōmonly doen in ciuil affaires ccxxiiij. confirmed by Peter Martyr ccxxviij.
Laſt off all this is confirmed / by ould cuſtome ccxx. by Councels Nycene cclvij. cclxxxiiij. Cōſtantinople / Carthage / Toledo / alledged page xxxvij. off my firſt book: off Paris / Orleans with diuers other / ccxx. Emperours decrees cciij / Ignatius cciij. Cyprian cxxv. ccx…ij. Where is / the D. exception taken owt off Pigghius / Gregorie Nazianzene / Ambroſe ccixxx. Chryſoſtome cxciij. Ierome cclxxvj. Auguſtin cclxxviij. The exception againſt which teſtimony is takē from Pigghius. Oecumenius ccij Luther ccxiiij. Archbiſhop off Reines / …uſanus / Celeſtinus / Leo ccliij.
Off the autorities / which he vſeth: that off Chryſoſtome vppon the 6 off the Actes / is anſwered cxciij. That owt of his book de ſacerdorio / and S. Iohn drawen both from Hoſius cclxxxviij. ccxcj. The reſt ether are nothing to purpoſe / or are ſhewed flat againſt him / for vsus: as the Canon attributed to the Apoſtles / off the Ancyran / and Antioch can Councel ccxv…ij. Caluin cxxvj. ccxvj. ccxxij Zuing…us and Bulllinger cxcvj. Beza cxci…ij. Muſculus ccixiij. and toe example off the Tigurine election ccixv. Differing in ſome point f…m vsus are ſhewed greatly againſt him.
Examin…on, an other part off election.
That the eccleſtaſticall miniſters examinatiō / is inſtituted in the word: ys ſhewed owt off Acres j. cxxj. 6. Act cxxvij. 1. Timothy iij. cxliiij. Whether perteineth / the example off Ieroboam clxi. Althowgh they be knowen / yet meet they ſhould be offered vntounto yt cxxij. yea and examined / althowgh ſome good knowledg be before exxviij.
That it owght not to be made by one onelyonly: as appeareth by the former teſtimonies Hether belong the reaſons of ignorance / corruption in religion / and affection / noted in the former title: as thoſe which are common to this / aſwel as to the churches conſent in election. This is explaned / by compariſon off Ciuill affaires res. cxx…x / &c. clix. Confirmed by example off S. Paul xvj. Act. cliiij. Whether perteineth / that alledged of the D. that S. Paul was receiued at the teſtimony of Barnabas 160. Eſpecially this examination owght not to be made by the Archdeacon / in the election off a biſhop cliiij. And that the receiuing of a biſhop at his teſtimonie / came from Rome cxliij.
That in the examination with vsus / the church ys vtterly ſhut owt: howſoeuer the D / pretend otherwiſe cliiij.
Knowen adulterers owght not to be receiued into the myniſtery clxxvj. Nor miniſters fallen into Idolatry cxlv. The law of Moſes / in that behalf: owght rather to be obſerued vnderunder the goſpel / then vnderunder the law cixxvj. The endes hereof clxxiiij. Here is handled / the example of Iudas clxviij. clxxiiij. The Phariſies clxviij. Off S. Paul and Peter clxxiiij. Likewiſe are handled S. Peters denial clxxvij. and the gentiles Idolatry clxxxiiij. Increaſed by the D. to the end that the Popiſh Idolatry ſhould ſemeles. Likewiſe / that the decree off reſtoring miniſters fallen into Idolatry: was not of the Councel of rebaptization clxxxij. That they which are nue come to religion owght not to be receiued to the miniſtery off the word clxxx.
That a prouf may be taken off the biſhops habilitie in teaching / before he be ordeined. cl. That if they be not able to teach: they owght not by the word to be ordeined ccclxvij.
Hether perceineth / that is vnmeet / to …own myniſters their Care chiſm ccclxiiij.
Hether belongeth the treatiſe off rea…ing the holy ſcriptures where fyrſt ys ſhewed / the vſe of reading them in the church ccclxxv. That reading off them is not able ordinarily to hould the people from pining ccclxiij. Nether can reading of praiers / or admyniſtration off the Sacramentes withowt preaching / ccclxiiij. That ſimple readers / ordeined for paſtors: can not properly be called watchmen ccclxxvj. That reading ys not preaching ccclxxxvij. Againſt the phrenefie / that bare reading ys better then preaching / clxxxv. That bare reading ys not ſo good / as preaching / ccclxxiiij not to the learned them ſelues / ccclxxxiiij. much les reading of the homilies / cccxciij. Which are not meet to be red in the churche openly cccxcij. As are not alſo the Apoctypha ccxcviij: eſpecially conſidering their corruptions / page cccc.
Hether perteineth / the iudgement off the churches / off vnlearned miniſters ccclxiiij.
The cauſes off the vnlearned myniſtery / with vsus ccclxiij. ccclxv. ccclxxj.
Ordination.
ORdination doth not belong to the biſhop alone cclxxiiij.
Againſt the Biſhop commaunding to receiue the holie goſte in ordeining ccxcij.
Reſidence.
IN the reſidence off the miniſters / that off the Paſtor is particularly handled 4. Tract. page cccxxx. Where our reaſons are mainteined.
That it is the inſtitution off God in the ould Teſt. cccxlij. In the nue cccxliiij. That the calling of the church (which ys alſo the lordes) ys to that place onelyonly cccxxxij. That he owght to be reſidēt / that therby greater louelove might be wrought cccxiv: That hauing better knowledg / off the eſtate off his flock he may better doe all dueties towardes them cccxxxix. That with ſeing the bleſſing off God / he might be ſtirred to further diligence cccxlv: That his flock hauing more famyliaryty might hauehave eaſier acces ibid. That he might be … …mple of life cccxliij.
Proued alſo by, …ōtinual duty off preaching: Whether perteineth that treatiſe / wherein / ys ſhewed; that yt ys conuenient yt ſhould alwaies god before the adminiſtring of the holie Sacramentes cccxlviij. Hether may be referred the compariſon of the diligence of the elder Biſhops in preaching / dcxlvij. Whether alſo refer the vnlawfull power of the biſhop / towching licences to preach: wherby yt is in his will / whether he will gyue the paſtor leaue to preach or no: cōſidering that it is a neceſſarie dutie of the paſtor / and the principall cauſe off his reſidence cccxlj. That he muſt admoniſh both the wicked / and the godly: ſtrengthen both the weak and the ſtrong cccxlj. Comfort in temptation cccxlvij. Therfore that the bare reading off the ſcripture is no ſufficient ſupplie in his abſence cccxliij: Nether his care cccxxxij. That the conſcience off the paſtor and contentement of the people: ys no good rule off doing theſe duties cccxxx.
Nether belongeth that the paſtor owght not to goe here / and there to preache: where he thincketh good. Where ys ſhewed / that God doeth not alwaies call to places where one may doe moſt good: no not in the extraordinary callings / muche les in the ordinary cccxxxvj. That this going about to preache (as yt ys aſſigned of the Anſwerer) taketh away the difference betwene the paſtors calling / and the extraordinary functions cccxxxij. That thoſe extraordinary callinges doe not make againſt the paſtors reſidence / as yt is aſſigned off vsus cccxxxj. cccxxxix: That they rather make for yt cccxxxij. cccxxxiij. cccxxxv.
That ordinarie deputies are ouerthrown by this reſidence / cccliiij whether may be referred / that dlxxxvj. of deputies: Likewiſe pluralities of benefices ccclvj. Hether refer / that abſence for ſome cauſes / and ſome conditions: doe not ouerthrow reſidēce cccliij.
This ys alſo proued / by compariſon of ſhepardes / and watchmen cccxxxvj. Where ys ſhewed / how ſhamefully the anſwerer abuſeth the doctrine off Gods holy election: and of final perſeuerance of thoſe / whiche are once called cccxxxviij. Alſo that by his anſwer the paſtor after he hath admoniſhed them need neuer come to them: nor yet leaue any deputie cccxli.
Likewiſe off the eie / and ſoule cccxlvij. … yt as ys precious a worke to kepe thoſe gotten / as to get othe… …ich be in ignorance: and more agreable / vntounto the paſtors of…e.
The autoritie off Councels / and fathers cccxxxiiij. cccliiij.
Eccleſiaſticall correction.
A part off that Eccleſiaſticall diſcipline / which ſtandeth in corrections: is commaunded is. Math. 66.