A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 — Thomas Cartwright

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 · Thomas Cartwright

The 5. Tract. and 6. vn the O.

Off preaching Myniſters.

HEere may be iuſtly renewed the complaint of the prophet / Eze. 44. 8that the preiſts did not onelyonly them ſelues not execute their charge / according to the lawes giuē in that behalf: but gaue thoſe alſo entrance / to whom the lord had vtterly denied it. For yt is not enough for the D. to feed hym ſelff / and others with the bloud off the church / in defenſe off the vnlawfull abſence off the Paſtor: onles by this maintenance off vnpreaching miniſters / as yt were by banner ſpred / he make a feaſt theroff vntounto all the rauening / and Cormorant foules in the land. And ſo as if it were a ſmall thing / to beare the condemnation off his owne pariſhes: he ſtretcheth owt his hand / to hauehave part in the gilt off others. And although this defenſe may ſeem to be gyuen to thes wofull readers: yet if we gyue a litle heed / we ſhall eaſely perceiue / that both this puddle / ād others which depend vpō it / returne to fill if it were poſſible / the Ocean ſea off non reſidents. For nō reſidence would bring litle ether to filling off cofres / or bathing off them in the delightes off the world / or to what other thing ſoeuer they in their abſence propound: vnles there were ſuch hungry knightes / as would for a cruſt of bread / ſupply this abſence. Now for remouing off thes ſweepinges owt off the church miniſtery / we muſt come backe to a diuiſ. towching this matter.

Where yt is ſaied that the people need not pine away for lacke off foode, ſeing they hauehave one to reade, &c: yt is but a begging off that pag. 153.in queſtion. for is this the diet which God hath appointed to his children / or portion he hath commaunded his faithfull ſeruantes to gyue vntounto his family in due ſeaſon / or that delicate table / and Math. 24. 45. Math. 13: 52.cup that runneth ouer? are thes the houſholders which before they ſet vp / or take the charge off houſekeping / hauehave filled all the ir garners / furniſhed all their cellars / frawght all their threaſuries with all ſtore newe and oulde / fitte to enterteine the ſonnes / and dawghters off the great kinge off heauen? we is vntounto that howſ holde that hathe ſuch a ſtewarde / and wo ſhall be vntounto that ſtewarde that vppon ſuche prouiſion / vndertaketh the ſtewardſhippe off the howſe off God. But wo and wo againe ſhall be to him / that not onelyonly him ſelfe famiſheth the how ſholde which he hathe / but teacheth others to doo ſo: and not onelyonly doth euill / but iuſtifieth the euill doer. A. great parte off the D. alowance here / cometh to be examined after: as that bare reading is not able without Gods extraordinary worke / to deliuer one ſowle / and that homilies are not ſeruiceable in this ſolemne bancket.

Now to runne throwgh the reſte / I anſwer prayers, and Sacramentes foraſmuche as they take effecte by the preachinge off the worde / where that is not / thoſe doo not onelyonly not feede / but are ordinarily to further condemnation. That whiche the Curates can gyue before they hauehave learned their Cathechiſme (of wiche tyme is here ſpoken) is poiſon and no meate: ſo that hetherto they maie pyne / for any thinge that the Anſw. ſetteth before them / in ſuche ſorte eſpecially as he ſettethe yt. All the hope therfore off delyueringe them from famyn / hangeth vppon the well diſpoſed preacher, whiche if he feede another flocke withe the hinderance off his owne / or hauinge no flocke goe abowte in circuite whether ſo euer he thincketh good: I will not dente but the one and the other maie hauehave a good meaninge therin / but whether the lorde alowe off it (onles he be able to ſhew the ſeale off ſome extraordinary calling) I leaue yt to be conſidered / of that which hathe bene before diſputed. I omit that I know my ſelfe / that within ſeuen myles of Cambridge / there hauehave bene pariſhes where one off thes ſermons was not / in fowre whole yeares. Which if y… be ſo neere Cambridge / where the greateſt number off thoſe preachers be: what is to be thowghte off other places off the Realme?

Onles yow counte eueryevery reproche / and raylinge worde an argumente / here is no worde to proue, that yt is meete to enioyne myniſters to learne Cathechiſmes: that is to ſaye / to proue that they maie be miniſters off the worde / before they hauehave learned the Chriſtian A. B. C. which children off ſeeen yaere olde in reformed churches / can anſwer vntounto. They are neceſſarie poinctes wh… he are tawghte there. So ys the A. B. C. to him whiche will learne to reade. they are the weightieſte thinges in our Religion. Els they coulde not be the foundations whiche vphold the whole buildinge. To hauehave ſaide ſomethinge yow ſhoulde hauehave ſaide / they are the hardeſte / and difficulteſte poinctes off religion, but that yow can not / thoſe beinge without the circuite off a Cathechiſme. I am contente therfore yow ſhall praiſe the booke withe what wordes yow will: but when yow hauehave doon / looke that yow leaue yt a Catechiſme / that is to ſaie a treatiſe of the firſte elemētes / or A. B. C. off Chriſtianitie. And then yt followeth / that yowr enioyninge off yowr myniſters to learne it: doth neceſſarily preſuppoſe ignorance off thoſe thinges / the wante off knowledge wheroff in that age / not onelyonly owghte to remoue them from the colledge off myniſters: but leaueth them no place till they be better inſtructed / to ſyt amongeſt the Chriſtians. And if yow thinke this no diſcredite at all, yow hauehave yowr credite ſeperate from the credite off the churche: whiche is diſcredited / diſhonored / yea vtterly deſtroied by ſuche blinde eyes. And I maie further ſaie / that he whiche thinketh this no diſcredite, maie be feared to ſeeke credite in the ignorance off the myniſters: whileſt amongeſte ſuch a blinde companie / his ſighte maie be ſomewhat / ād whileſt he maie vſe their ſimplicitie / to the eſtabliſhmente off that tyranny / which a learned myniſtrie woulde neuer beare.

But becauſe the Anſ. can ſaie nothinge / let vsus heare what the Heluetian confeſsion (fully repeted againe 253. and yet againe 484. mentioned alſo the fowrth time) ſaithe for them. vvee condemne all vnmeete myniſters, not indued vvith gyftes neceſſarye for a ſhepherd, that ſhoulde feede his flocke. What doo I heare? doo yow condemne all / &c? hearken Maiſter D. heere is ſentence off condemnation gyuen off thoſe / whiche yow defende. Was there no eaſier worde to vſe but condemninge? yf they had onelyonly ſaide they approued them not / ſpeakinge owte off the worde off God / as they doo yt had bene a ſhrewde blowe. But in ſayinge flatt'y that they condemne them: they hauehave ſaide what they coulde / for the vtter ſweepinge them owte of the church / as longe as yt ſtandeth. And take this alſo with yow / that in condemninge them / they condemne the making / and defence of them Thus our ignorante miniſters hauehave once paſſed the condemnation off the churches and in this condemnation they lie / and ſhall lie as longe as the worde off God remaineth / if all men in the worlde woulde abſolue them. But let vsus heare whether they be repriued by the iudgemente of theſe churches / or whether they giuegive any pardon / which gaue the condemnation.

There followeth that they allovve better off the harmeles ſymplicitie off ſome, then off the exquiſite learning off others, ioyned vvithe pride. And worthily. For nether can pride agree withe manners off the miniſter off God: and harmles ſymplicitie maie well agree / with a competent learninge meete for that function. In the ende they conclude / that they reiecte not the good ſymplicitie of certein, ſo they be not altogether vnſkilful off God, and his vvorde. Firſte this can make nothinge for excuſe off our myniſters. For when they are to learne their Catechiſme / and the principles off Chriſtian Religion / what knowledge is left vntounto them off God / and off his worde? Then yt is like / that by harmles ſymplicitie they meane ſome rare / and ſingular holines / wherby they goo as farre beyond the other in life / as they come behinde them in learninge: whiche all ſee to be otherwiſe in our ignorante miniſters / oftentimes the maiſters off miſrule to all the pariſhe. Otherwiſe they knewe what Ierome ſaithe / Ad Oceanum.that in that S. Paule requireth that a biſhop ſhoulde be vviſe, he barreth thoſe vvhichwhich vnderunder the name off ſymplicitie, excuſe the folie off myniſters.

Laſte off all by that ſkill off God / and off his worde / they muſte needes vnderſtande ſuche giftes / as are neceſſarie for a ſhepherd to feede his flocke: whiche is habilitie to teache / to exhorte / to conuince the aduerſarie: and if he hauehave thoſe / althoughe he hauehave not the knowledge off tounges / and artes / in the name off God let him hauehave the chaire. And ſuche I confeſſe our churche hathe had / and hathe ſome / but they are very rare: and off thes I doubte not but the confeſſion meaneth. Nether can they be withowte manifeſte iniurie / thowghte to receiue thoſe whiche they had before condemned. for ſhall wee ſaie off them that with one mouthe / yea with one breathe they blewe whout / and kolde? wheruppon I conclude / that the condemnation beinge heere greater then the pardon / and the wound wider then the plaiſter: yow were verie neere driuen / when yow were compelled to vſe the teſtimonie off thes churches / to couer the nakednes off the ignorante myniſters▪ your notable ſlaunder off the Adm. I am contente ſhall (as yow ſaie) reſte in the readers iudgmente. That I hauehave gathered yowr argumente faithfully / towchinge the learninge off Catechiſmes / is ſhewed before. There foloweth the 2. diuiſ. (the firſt being a blank) where beſide the cauſes by him aſſigned pa. 2…2.of want off able Miniſters / be to no pourpoſe / conſidering that we ſhewe there can be no cauſe off inſtituting a reading miniſtery / and be alſo owt off place / conſidering that he ſhoulde hauehave oppoſed them / to thoſe which I alledged in that behalf: that pa. 484.which onelyonly was materiall / that we be in cauſe off that fewnes, is onelyonly ſaied.

Where I alledged owt off S. Paul / that yt is an expreſſe commaundement that a paſtor ſhould be able to teach, and Diuiſ. 3. 253. 1, Tim. 3. 2 Tit. 1. 9.conuince gaynſayers, and therfore to be broken vponupon no occaſion: he anſwereth that S. Paul ſheweth the qualities off a paſtor, but ſaieth not that we may not hauehave reading Paſtors, if there be none, or not a ſufficient nombre in whom all thoſe qualities concur. Then which what can be more bluntly ſaied? For this being a generall rule / he owght to hauehave ſhewed where the Lord gyueth leaue to take vnteaching myniſters / contrary vntounto the tenor off this commaundement: which he is neuer able to doo. For the ſcripture commaunding the paſtors ſhould be able to teach / and conuince doth forthwith ſhutowt all other: it being a generall rule / that it both commaundeth the contrary off that it forbiddeth: and forbiddeth the contrary off that yt commaundeth. And there is no commaundement in the ſcripture / which may not be eluded by the D. anſwer. For thus yt may be ſayed / that we may hauehave images in churches to teach the ignorant: for that although the lord forbid them / yet he hath not ſaied that where there are none / or not a ſufficient numbre off able teachers / we may not hauehave ſuch ſupplies. Thoſe alſo which preſſed with extreame hunger ſeeke remedy in ſtealing / finde him their proctor. For the lord hath not ſaied in ſo many wordes / that one which is hungerbitten / may not ſteale as much as will ſaue his life. But when all commaundementes be generall in the ſcripture / albeit they hauehave not alwaies the vniuerſall note off All / or None: onles there be ſome exception declared / this off the ſufficiency off the paſtor / being not onelyonly vniuerſall / but vniuerſally propounded / is better armed againſt all thes fond cauils. For our ſauiour declaring that eueryevery one inſtructed Mat 13. 52as a ſcribe vntounto the kingdome off God / owght to be prouided aforehand with ſtore off doctrine / and iudgement to apply yt according to the preſent occaſion: doth gyue manifeſtly to vnderſtand / that no one may be receiued into the order off paſtors / which is not able to teach his flocke.

And the D. may as well ſay / that in default of ſober / chaſt / and quiet paſtors / they may chuſe dronckards / whoremongers / ſwaſhbucklers: as that in default off a teaching paſtor / they may take vnteaching. Yea rather may he ſay the one then the other / cōſidering that ſobriety / chaſtitie / and quietnes are commen with him to all Chriſtians: but abilitie to teach / and confute are his proper duties. Therfore although thes be both vntollerable / yet the church receiueth les harme / by paſtors which infected with … doo teach: then by them which free from thes / are vtterly vnable to teach. For the good life off the paſtor withowt doctrine / wherby they may be both tawght to put their truſt in god / and ſee the good workes they ſhould follow / is as a faire coulor withowt light to ſhewe yt by / vtterly vnprofitable: where the word truly preached / ſhineth oftentimes clearer in the heartes / then the clowde of the paſtors diſordered life / cā ſtay the fruict of. And albeit all commaundementes off God / are ſuch as may not for any cauſe be broken: yet this S. Paul gyueth off the Paſtor / hath a ſpeciall fenſe caſt abowt yt / wherby it might be kept in greater ſafety. For the ſpirit of God / foreſeing this ſhamefull prophanation off the miniſtery / together with the preſent daunger vntounto the church / vſeth a preface to this deſcription of the paſtors office / vſed rarely / and but in matters of greateſt ſtablenes / ſaying yt is a certein doctrine. As if he ſhould ſay / that which foloweth is an vnuariable / 1. Tim. 3. 1and vnchangeable rule / which can by no autoritie of men / for any cauſe not onelyonly be brokē / but not ſo much as bowed / or once vvrinched a ſide.

His reaſon that Paul was glad thoſe preached, which ſwarued frō Diuiſ 2. pag. 44.that rule, beſide that I hauehave ſhewed it ridiculous: is here owt of place / cōſidering that thes readers which would hauehave rēt his heart in peeces / being ordeined with breach off the rule off God could not cheare him vp againe by preaching: wherunto they are as fit as an oxe to flie. Witnes the D. him ſelfe / which addeth that our ignorant miniſters may by ſtudy ſo profit in knowledge, that they may be able priuately to exhort Where yt is merueilons to ſee how he fometh owt their ſhame / whom he hath taken to his defenſe. Yf he had ſaied / that in time with ſtudy they might be able to preach: yet forſomuche as while that graſſe groweth / the people periſh / his anſwer had bene vntollerable. Now gyuing no further hope / then that in time they will be able priuately to admoniſh / Rom. 15. 14. Heb. 3. 13.which eueryevery Chriſtian owght to doo: he hath gyuen ſentence off them / that they will neuer be able to doo the worcke off Paſtors / wheroff they beare the name: that is that they will neuer be but idoles. What they doo by reading is after to be ſeen. The place of Oſea which reſecteth from the miniſtery / thoſe that hauehave not kn…ge Cap. 4. verſ. 6.off the lawe / becawſe it failed a litle in the quotation / he hath let quietly goe by.

Where he gyueth me the lie, for that I aſcribe vntounto him this argument / there muſt be reading in the church, therfore miniſters that can doo nothing but reade: his wordes be thes. I ſee not how yow can condemne reading miniſters, ſeing reading is neceſſary in the church. let the reader iudge what a hard forehead he hath. Where I concluded theruppon / that eueryevery one vvhichwhich coulde breake bread, diſtribute the cup, &c. ſhould be a meet miniſter: all ſee that it followeth vponupon the former reaſon. And this which the D. counteth a ieſt, he is not able to anſwer in his greateſt earneſt. His anſwer to the place off S. Iames is friuolous. For Diuiſ. 4. pag. 260. Iam 5. 14. Lu. 9 c 2. Pag. 133.his reaſon why the place off …. Luke commaunding the 12. diſciples to preach / can not be applied vntounto our Miniſters, is for that other thinges ioyned with yt were temporall. And this is his reaſon before / that the example off the Apoſtels elections is to be followed wholy, or not at all. Therfore the place off S. Iames / did fully confute his anſwer: conſidering that the anointing of the ſick coupled with praier / by the elders off the church / being temporall: thother notwithſtanding is perpetuall. And this ſhift that that place was ſpoken off all miniſters, and thother off S Luke off the 12. onelyonly, will not couer his ſhame. For what wil he ſay vntounto the rules gyuen as the ſame tyme / that they ſhould be ſymple in their miniſtery as doues, vviſe as ſerpentes, Math. 10. 16. 17.take heed off men? are they not ſpoken to the miniſters now / becawſe they were ſpoken then to the 12. onelyonly? What vntounto that our Sauiour Chriſt commaunded to goe into all the world / Math 28. ….teaching / and baptizing in the name off the Father / Sonne / and Holy Ghoſt? which place ſhaketh hym owt of both his ragges: for that was ſpoken to the eleuen Apoſtels onelyonly / and the cōmaundement off going into all the world / was temporall. Yet I thincke he dare not deny / but the commaundement off baptizing in the name off Father / Sonne / and holy Ghoſt / is perpetuall / and belonging vntounto all Paſtors. Wheruppon followeth that the place off S. Luke ſtandeth ſtill / to whip owt vnpreaching Paſtors. In the pag. 483. this is handled againe.Diuiſ. 15.

Where I alledge that they be vnchangeable lavves … God, that he ſhould not be miniſter off the church vvhichwhich can not teach, nor Miniſter Sacramentes vvhichwhich can not preach: the D. leauing the firſt which was the very cauſe / ſhppeth to the ſecond / which is handled in an other Tract. as that wherin his prouiſion was better. Howbeit becauſe I would not the D. cauſe ſhould leeſe her aduantage by his ouerſight: I confeſſe that Chryſoſtomes teſtimonie / may ſeeme to perteine to the cauſe in hand / foraſmuch as he maketh a kinde off preiſthood not able to teach. To whom (with this exception that I will not be preſſed with his autoritie / further then he bringeth reaſon off the word off God) I anſwer that as the word preiſthood / is often times in eccleſiaſticall writers taken for the paſtor / and cheif miniſter off the church / off which our preſent queſtion is: ſo ſometime yt is taken for the elders / ioined as helpers in gouernement vntounto the paſtor / and whiche had not (as ſhall appeare) to doo doythe the preaching off the word / and adminiſtration off the Sacramentes. As when yt is ſaied / that the Biſhop choſen by Gods ordinance, and the Elders ioyned vvith hym in the prieſtly honour. Cypr. l. 3. Epiſt. 1.According vntounto which ſenſe / Chryſoſtomes ſaying maketh nothing to this queſtion. For we deny not / but that he may be an elder / and cōſequently (as they terme him) a preiſt aſſiſtant to the paſtor / which is not able to preach: but that he may be the paſtor / we vtterly deny. So remaineth onelyonly againſt vsus in Chryſoſt. teſtimonie / that he may baptize that can not preach: which with the reſt perteining to that head / ſhal (god willing) be in their proper place anſwered. As for the 5. 1. Tim. towching the Elders which rule well / in the treatiſe off the Preſbytery yt ſhall appeare, that it is not vnderſtanded off theſe caterpillers. where he requireth warrant off the word of God, for that I confeſſe the church may appoint for a reader onelyonly ſome graue man, he confeſſing yt lawfull as well as I: for anſwer to his requeſt / I refer him to that diſputation where 2. Tracte. accordīg to the D. Diuiſ. 16. pag. 484.I hauehave proued / that it is not lawfull to place any thing in the church / not iuſtified by the word.

That the cavvſe off this fevvnes off able miniſters, is partly the thruſting ovvt off thoſe vvhichwhich are fyt to teach, partly that others fyt are not ſought after: it is manifeſt. Whether they owght to be ſought after / and not to offer them ſelues: I leaue to be eſtemed off that which is written in this point / in the booke intituled off the diſcipline, &c. Whether they be off right thruſt owt, I leaue to be iudged off the diſcours off theſe controuerſies: whether they which are not yet entred / hauehave iuſt cawſe to forbeare / I leaue to be conſidered off the diſputation before / and off that of the Archebiſhop / Archedeacons / Commiſſaries / &c. which followeth. For if it fall owt that the calling be vnlawfull / wherby the entrance ſhould be made / and the autoritie of the church tirantes ſuch / that being entred / one can not walke in the way off his miniſtery preſcribed off the lord: then it muſt followe / that although thoſe that are entred / hauing teſtimony off their conſcience that they ſerue the lorde / and keping themſelues from the pollutions / may pourſue their courſe: yet thes can not withowt ſhipwracke off conſcience (I ſpeake off ordinary callinges) euen in the very port / or euer they launche forth / commit them ſelues to this viage.

Where he ſaith there want no prouokinges to drawe them to the myniſtery: euen that is an other cawſe off this ſcarcety. for the churchliuinges ſo vnequally deuided / that ſome fewe being druncken / the moſte hunger: diſcourage from that ſtudy. For the parent which followeth the ſente off honour / and gaine in Archbiſhoprickes / biſhoprickes / and other ſuch poiſons off the miniſtery: is oftentimes beaten backe by diſpaire / that they ſhall not atteine to that gaine / which deſired as they thincke off many / can be obteined but off few. He that is willing his ſonne ſhould ſerue in the eſtate off a Miniſter / and looketh with a more ſingle eye / to the continuence off true religion vntounto his poſterity: yet when he conſidereth how fewe liuinges there be (thoſe excepted wherwith he will not hauehave his ſonne deſiled) able to mainteine the paſtor with his competent howſehold / honeſtly / he applieth hym to an other trade of life. Wheroff although occaſion be gyuen by horrible vnthankefullnes off men / which in ſteed off gyuing ſome thing into the treaſury off the churche / hauehave by their pillage browght her almoſte to ſtarck beggery: yet that parent ſhoulde conſider / that the lord will neuer leaue / nor forſake his / and that Heb. 13. 5. Agg. 2. 9.gould and ſyluer is the Lordes. Which ſeing he fourniſhed to thoſe / that in ſymplicity ſought the building off his howſe / owt off the cofres off heathen Princes: he will much les ſuffer them to want neceſſaries vnderunder godly / and Chriſtian. But this place is plentifully handled in the foreſaide booke off diſc…p…ne. I onelyonly (becauſe the queſtion was heere off the cauſe off w…nting ſufficient paſtors) towched yt.

Heere the D. light eſtimation off the churches ſaluation / Diuiſ. 17. Pag. 484.and off preaching is notably diſcouered. before he ſaied / that thes reading paſtors were taken for neceſsity: now he teacheth / that …f there were ſufficient paſtors to ſupply the roumes / yet the readers ſhould kepe their places ſtill Yf ye aſke why: leſt forſooth they with their families ſhould goe a begging. Heere a whole church is ſould for 30 peeces off ſiluer / or rather as I may ſay / for ould ſhooes. For the D. weighing in his ſkiles / whether yt is better that the church ſhould vvant a preaching paſtor / vvhom God hath ordeined the principall inſtrument to ſaue his church by / or that the reader vvith his familie ſhould goe a begging: hath found the ſowlehealth off a whole church / farr lighter then the bodely cōmodity of one reader with his familie. Where he ſaith / yt ſeemeth that I vvould hauehave the miniſter renant at will / or by courteſie: it is an vntrue ſurmiſe. For I complaine that thes reading Miniſters / were not onelyonly placed vntill other might be gotten: but had a free hould / wherby the ſheep are not onelyonly committed to the woulf / but the doore ſparred alſo vponupon them.

Where he aſketh for the place, in which Auguſtine calleth them woulues that teach not: if he hauehave not the vvord vvoulf, yet he ſpeaketh Lib. de Paſt.to that effect / when vponupon the place off Ezechiel I hauehave gyuen the a vvatchman, &c. he proueth that he which holdeth his peace / murthereth. Which alſo euen the Pope himſelfe / as lōg as there was but a ſparcke of true knowledge / confeſſeth. Yf the D. Greg. Epiſt. 1. 33.ſay / that his mē hold not their peace, becauſe they reade: it is a cauill vnworthy anſwer. As though when the Prophet calleth the raſcall miniſters off his time / domme dogges, and ſuche as could not Eſay. 56. 10.not barcke, his meaning vvere to charge them that they could not ſpell / or reade in a booke off their owne language laied before them. And ſo I truſt appeareth / that this taile off reading miniſters owght to be cut of: and that they are none off theſe princely giftes / which our Sauiour Chriſt aſcended into heauen / ſendeth 4. Eph. 11vntounto his church / but the biſhops (to ſpeake no grieuouſ lier off them) more then beggerly preſentes. But we are not yet at an end. For that which the D. can not get / in comparing a preaching paſtor with a keading: he thincketh to obtein in comparing reading with preaching / wherunto perremeth his 13 Tract.

Firſt he mainteineth his vntrue accuſation off the Adm. to Diuiſ. 1. pag. 568.wching their condemning off reading off ſcriptures. Which in comparing the wordes alledged by the D. with thoſe of the Ad. in ould time the vvord vvas preached, novv it is ſuppoſed ſufficient iff it be redd: I commit vntounto the readers iudgement. And if his vnhoneſt realing were not euident there / becauſe off an other ſentence off the Adm. ſubiect vntounto reprehenſion: yet he laieth yt open in the ſame behauiour to wardes me. For althowgh I hauehave not a word againſt reading / and diuers commendations of yt: yet pag. 717.he feareth not with full throat to accuſe me / as a deſpiſer off reading off the ſcriptures, as companion off the Papiſtes vngodlines in that behalff. Which although he doo often / yet further then his reaſons gyue occaſion: he ſhall neuer gaine off me / that I will voucheſafe him a word off anſwer / to all this owtcries. After vponupon that I ſay / yf I may call hym myniſter that can doo nothing but reade (which is as indifferent to gyue him the name off a myniſter / as to take it from him / being left betweene bothe) the D. according to his ould equity / concludeth that I ſignifie and that plainely, how I eſteme them for no miniſters. Which he likewiſe gathereth / for that I ſay as they call them. Wherin I will not deny but there may be occaſion gyuen / to hym eſpecially that hunteth after yt / off that ſurmiſe. But my meaning was / to note how vnworthy they are / as off the office / ſo off the name off a Miniſter off the goſpell: not to make voide their myniſtery ſuch as it is / in adminiſtration off the Sacramentes. which I confeſſe as in the Popiſh Preiſtes baptiſme / for that they be the publicke officers appointed therunto / althowgh vnduely miniſtred / to be the holy Sacramentes off Chriſt. And that this was my meaning might eaſely hauehave bene gathered / in that I allowing off the adminiſtration of Sacramentes by Heretickes / ſo much worſe then they / as as it is to teach falſely then not to teach at all: could by no equall interpretation / be iudged to condemne the Sacramentes miniſtred by them.

Where I ſay that albeit the D. cavvſe in this point be Diuiſ. 2. Pag. 969.good, that the reading off the ſcriptures is profitable: yet as one be pitched, he defileth yt in euill handling: he anſwereth as though I confeſſed / that I misliked the matter well handled, onelyonly for that yt was doone by hym: which is a ſhameles vntruth. Bucers ſentence Diuiſ. 3. pag. 569.(reading is a kinde off preaching) I thincke will not be found: and I dowbt not but the D. would hauehave brought yt / if there had bene any. So he is deſtitute off his good autoritie, and withall remaineth the abſurditie / before aſſigned. The ſentence ſet downe owt off Bucer is altogether idle: ſeing the profit off reading the ſcriptures / both publickely / and priuately is confeſſed. Where to proue that reading is not ſo effectual as preaching, I alledge S. Paul / that one can not beleeue vvithovvt a preacher: he anſwereth Rom. 10. 14.that by preaching there is ment all kinde off publiſhing the goſpell by owtward voice. but off reaſon off this expoſition / ether owt off ſcripture / or any other / more then his owne I ſay, he bringeth not a lettre. For that he addeth / off taking away by this meanes from the maieſtie off the ſcriptures, and making them d…e, &c. (amplified in the next diuiſ. by aſking why the ſcriptures were then written? with other ſuche too too idle queſtions / which I am aſhamed to defile my penne with) is vnworthy the name of a reaſon. As yf in that reading maketh mē fitter to heare the word preached / and to ſeeke after yt / in that yt helpeth to nouriſh faith engrended / in that it confirmeth a man in the doctrine preached / when by reading he perceiueth yt to be as the preacher tawght / in that it renueth the memory off that was preached / which otherwiſe would decay: I ſay as if in thes reſpectes / and ſuch like / the profit off reading / and committing the word to writing / were not ſingular / and ineſtimable, beſide that it is not denied / but the Lord may extraordinarily gyue faith by reading onelyonly: although the order which God hath put / is to ſaue by foliſhenes (as it is eſteemed) off preaching. 1. Cor. 1. 21.beſide alſo that yt is abſurd / that the D. aſketh why els the goſpell ſhould be writter? as yf there were no other cauſe of writing off it / then that it ſhould be ſimply redd: or as though the principall cawſe was not ▪ that yt ſhould be preached.

But to retourne to the D. expoſition: Firſt it ouerthroweth the argument off the Apoſtle. For the Iewes offended that he / and other preached to the Gētils: prouing firſt that the inuocation off the name of God perteineth vntounto them / he concludeth therupon / that preaching vntounto them was lawfull: conſidering that they could not otherwiſe come to call vponupon the name off God, where by the D. expoſitiō / the Iewes might hauehave excepted / that his myniſtery towardes them was not therby iuſtified: foraſmuch as they might come to inuocation by reading onelyonly / withowt his / and others miniſtery off preaching. Furthermore / the Apoſtle S. Paul affirming in plaine wordes / that the preaching he ſpeaketh Rom. 10. 15.off / can not be made but by him vvhichwhich is ſent: yt is firſt manifeſt / that reading priuately is cleane ſhut owt / from being conteined vnderunder this preaching. For faith comming onelyonly by that preaching / ād that preaching onelyonly lawfull by the ſending of God / and publicke calling: it followeth / that except he will ſay / that the ſcripture may not be redd priuately / onles a man be publikely called therunto / that both priuate reading of the ſcripture / can no be conteined vnderunder the Apoſtles word of preaching / and that faith (onles by extraordinary worcke of God) can not be engendred by priuate reading. Foraſmuch as it is engēdred only by that preaching / vnderunder which priuate reading is not conteined. And ſo goeth to the ground one peece off the D. aſſertion.

Now if priuate reading onelyonly / can not ordinarily engender faith: I would know how publike reading onelyonly / can doo yt. Beſide that / when publike reading may be by a ſimple reader / which hath no other charge in the church / and off whom this ſolemne fending can not be vnderſtanded: yt followeth / that faith can not by publike reading onelyonly be engendred. Foraſmuch as he being none off thoſe ſent his reading can not be that preaching / by which faith is engendred. I ſay that a reader onelyonly can not be off thoſe ſent the Apoſtle ſpeaketh off / not onelyonly becauſe he hath regard vntounto the miniſteries off the word / appointed by God: but alſo for that the place off Eſaie / owt off which he proueth that faith cometh not but by preaching / will by no meanes ſuffer to cary the word preacher vntounto a ſimple reader. For beſide that it were friuolous / to refer the lifting vp off the voice off thoſe preachers Eſa. 52 8.wherunto the Prophet exhorteth / vntounto a loude reading / which is vnderſtanded of earneſtnes / and diligence in preaching: that voice he ſpeaketh off / is the voice off the churches vvatchmen▪ which title when yt can not agree vntounto a ſimple reader / that hath no further charge then to reade in a booke / according to the preſcript off others: yt is manifeſt / that a ſimple reader can not be conteined vnderunder S. Paules preacher / ſeing he can not be conteined vnderunder Eſaies / which is the ſame with S. Paules. For when the title off vvatchman, draweth a continuall care / and circumſpection ouer thoſe he watcheth: and the reader for any thing his office requireth / may occupy him ſelf in any worldly buſines / ſauing onelyonly the time off his reading: yt is cleare that he is no church watchman.

Nay the reading myniſters / which hauehave charge off ſowles committed vntounto them / can be none off this order of watcheman: ſeing they can not onelyonly not ſee the ennemy a far of / but not hard by / much les diſcry him: yt perteining to an inſtructed paſtor / which according to the circumſtance off the inuaſion / knoweth to apply his watche word. Now ſeing ſimple reading / nether priuate / nor publicke can be conteined vnderunder the preaching S. Paul ſpeaketh off Rom. 10. (which is an interpretation / and laying open the ſcriptures by a publike myniſter / apt / and autoriſed therunto): yt followeth / that faith which the Apoſtle teacheth no otherwiſe to come / but by that preaching / cometh not ordinarily by ſymple reading. I omit heere / that the Apoſtle vſeth to expreſſe foreign.this preaching / both by crying and telling good nevves: wheroff when yt can not be ſhewed owt off ſcripture / or (as I am perſwaded) owt of any other autor / that ether of them / much les both together / is vſed for ſimple reading: yt followeth that ſimple reading can not be vnderſtanded / by the word preaching.

To proue that bare reading ingendreth faith / he citeth Diuiſ. 4. 570.Iohn 5. repeted pag. 574. 2. Timo. 3.. whereto perteine Math. 7. Act. 17. 1. Iohn 4. Gal. 1. diſorderly placed pag. 717. but to no pourpoſe. For when our Sauiour biddeth the Iewes ſearch the ſcriptures: he referreth them by that ſearch / to iudge off the doctrine he had preached before: which proueth no fruict off reading / when there is no preaching. beſide that / it will be hard for him to refer the word ſearch / to reading onelyonly: as if one could not ſearch the ſcriptures / when he attendeth to them alledged in ſermons. yea he is confuted / by the place him ſelfe hath alledged: Where he would proue that the ſcripture red / in reſpect off making the hearers more apte to diſcerne off preaching / is better then preached. for when the Apoſtle teacheth the Galatians to hould them accurſed / which preache other doctrine then they had receiued by his preaching: he dooth flatly make his preaching / 1. Gal. 8. 9.the rule to examin other preachings by. The place off Tim. being (as I hauehave ſhewed) off the proper duties off the miniſter off the word in preaching / making no manner off mention off reading / is alledged withowt all iudgement. Hether refer Bucers Teſtimony in his former diuiſion / which maketh for that ſet downe in this. For Bucer ſetting him ſelf to commend reading in the churche / ſaith twiſe / bare, or onelyonly reading, confirmeth in the knovvledge off the Doctrine: which neceſſarily preſuppoſeth a knowledge foreplaced / or euer yt can be confirmed by reading onelyonly. Where as if he might / it is to be thowght he would hauehave ſaied that it ingendreth knowledge off the doctrine off ſaluacion.

Where I alledged that the conſideration off the creatures may nouriſh faith, not able yet to breed yt: he anſwereth / then let vsus hauehave images that they may be lay mēnes bookes. Which beſide the cō men fault off being nothing worth / is a wicked / and popiſhe anſwer. For if I had made the conſideration of the creatures equall vntounto reading off the ſcriptures in that teinement off ſaluation / as I compared them onelyonly in that both nouriſhing faith / nether could ordinarily breed yt: had yt bene lawfull therfore for hym to match inſtruction by images / with that which cometh by beholding the creatures? ys there ether the ſame / or like proportiō between the ſchoole of Imagery / and of the creatiō of the world? are thes bookes of the ſame print? the one cōming frō the lordes preſſe / the other owt off the deuils printing howſe: the one giuing a good report off the Lord / and aPſa. 191.ſetting owt his glory / the other b1. Ro. 23diſhonoring him: the one c1. Ro. 18teaching the truth / the other being dIere. 10. 14 Abac. 2. 18.Doctors of lies / and vanity: finally the one being eIob. 12. 6. 7. 8. Mat. 6. 26commaunded / the other fIo. 1. 5. 21forbidden? But thus muſt the iudgement off God be fulfilled / againſt the ennemies off his truth: in cloſing vp their eyes / which ſeing will not perceiue. The like blindnes yt is / that he accounteth an image a viſable creature, making therby a carpentour / a creator. In graunting that preaching is the moſte ordinary meane to worcke ſaluation by / his opinion ſhaketh: a token that yt will fall flat in the end. For if it be the moſte ordinary / and the moſte ordinary ordinarily moſte effectuall: then it is vntrue he ſaith / that the word ſimply redd, is as effectuall as preached.

Where vppon lifting vp off our Sauiour (as Moſes lift vp the ſerpent (following Caluins interpretation / which expoundeth Diuiſ. 5▪ pag. 571. Ioh. 3 14.yt off the preaching off the goſpell) I ſhewed that the word preached being lifted vp higher then when yt is redd / is eaſelier ſeen of the eie of faith: this trifler frameth firſt my reaſon of the …. ver. wheroff I make not a lettre mention. Secondly bringeth an other interpretation off the place I alledge: but anſwereth not Caluins reaſons / who cōfuteth it. Thirdly / he ſaith that although the interpretation be graunted / which I followed: yet the cauſe is not proued therby / for that Chriſt is lifted vp by ſymple readīng▪ which is no ſufficient anſwer / onles he had added / that it is lifted vp as highe. For when I affirme the word ſet in a lowe place / I meane not that all reading ſymply / and in it ſelf conſidered / is on the ground: but in compariſon off that when it is expounded by preaching. And if preaching doo make yt better vnderſtanded / and eaſelier ſeen then when yt is redd onelyonly (which Diuiſ. …. Pag. 172.at vnawares he manifeſtly confeſſeth: then yt is true which I hauehave ſet downe / that preaching in reſpect off reading, doth as yt vvere ſet the vvord in a more ſightly, and therfore higher place. As for Caluins interpretation which I followed / becawſe yt is dowbtfull / and the conference off an other place ſemeth rather to confirme Auguſtines / who referreth yt to the croſſe off Iohn 12. 32.our Sau. Chriſt: to ſpar owt the D. from his owt courſes / let him follow that he bringeth / I will not ſtriue, eſpecially ſeing the ſame ſenſe off lifting vp our Sauiour by preaching / appeareth otherwiſe: where by yt he is ſaied / to be crucified before our eyes.Gal. 3. 1.

VntoUnto that I alledge off the ſauour off the vvord, ſvveeter, and more nouriſhable vvhen it is braied, and cut, then vvhen Diuiſ 6. pag. 572.yt is by reading giuen as yt vvere vvhole, and in groſſe: towching the firſt / he aſketh whether the word redd is not a ſweet ſauour, in ſteed that he ſhould hauehave ſayed / as ſweet / which he durſt not. In the ſecond / whether there be no diſcretion required in reading? yes / but 2. Cor. 2. 16. 2. Tim. 2. 15.more in preaching. Although thus he towcheth not the matter. for vntounto the point of breaking / and cutting off the ſcripture / doone by preaching which applieth the generall doctrine to the particular circumſtance / wherin it is like vntounto aromatique ſpices / ſweeter broken then whole / and vntounto holeſome meat / apter to nouriſh when yt is chewed / or cut / then when yt is not: he anſwereth nothing. For as thinges aromatiquall / and meates both broken / and whole / hauehave the ſame ſauour / and vertue off nouriſhing in regard off them ſelues / yet in regard off vsus are ſweeter / and more nouriſhable broken &c: ſo the word off God / off the ſame vertue in yt ſelf both redd / and preached / ys vntounto vsus more profitable preached / then redd. wherunto perteineth that Saint Luke calleth the interpretation off the ſcriptures / an opening of them: which in the ſecond edition / becauſe yt was leo figuratiue then the compariſon off aromatique thinges (that being a metonimy off the preacher for preaching) I put in the place theroff. for if interpretation off the ſcriptures be the opening off them / as Saint Luke declareth calling yt opening in one verſe / which 24. 27. 32.he called interpreting in an other: yt followeth that the word redd / in reſpect off being preached / is as it were ſhut / and claſped. for this cawſe are the miniſters off the word / ſaied to hauehave Math. 16. 19.the keyes off the kingdome off heauen: for that withowt their miniſtery off preaching / the kingdome off heauen ys as yt were locked.

Where he aſketh whether I thincke the praiſe of preaching, the diſpraiſe of reading: all vnderſtand that it is eaſter to ſtrike water owt off a flint / then to finde honeſt dealing in this man. For is this to diſpraiſe reading / to prefer preaching before yt? In commending preaching before praying / and priuate meditation of ſcripture more then priuate reading / and practiſing more then both: doo I diſpraiſe priuate reading / or meditation? and yet the word off God is the ſame redd / meditated / and practiſed. But this is a Popiſh practiſe: which vponupon that we prefer faith to good worckes / concludeth that we make no account off good worckes.

Where vponupon that preaching is called both planting / and watering Diuiſ. 7. pa 722. 1. Cor 3. 6yt is ſhewed that as the hovvſbandman receiueth not fruict, onles both be doone, ſo no ſaluation to be looked for, vvhere is no preaching: he anſwereth that there is ſhewed how the word off God is not effectuall, onles God gyue encreaſe: which is to no pourpoſe. For he not onelyonly ſheweth that / but that God gyueth his encreaſe through their preaching: and that they be the howſbandes by whoſe preaching the Lord maketh his orcheyard. He anſwereth further / that in this place there is no compariſon betwene reading and preaching: but conſidereth not how the ſcripture giueth this / as alſo thoſe before cited / vntounto ſimple reading / therby ſingulary exalting preaching aboue bare reading. So that although ſome off thes in ſome degree / or all extraordinarily may be doone by bare reading: yet by thes cōmendations / as it were by a more precious apparell / is aduanced the grace off God / more richly rached vntounto vsus by the hand off preaching / then reading. Laſt off all he anſwereth / that tilling, and watering may be applied alſo vntounto diligent reading: where not daring (as it ſemeth) ſay planting, he hath chaunged it wheroff the queſtion was for tilling: belike becawſe he remembred he had ſaied before / that yt is proper vntounto the Apoſtles to plant. Where againe his cawſe receiueth an other wound. For if planting be by preaching / and not by reading: then in this reſpect / preaching is more effectuall then bare reading. Then that he ſaith killing / and watering may be applied to reading: he ſhould to mainteine his cauſe hauehave ſaied / as well / or as muche.

To that off the people periſhing vvithovvt prophecy, Pou. 29. 18.vvhichwhich is not bare reading, but expounding, and applying off ſcriptures: he anſwereth that the people muſte needes decay in holines, and knowledge where there be no preachers. but why doth he ſay decay, and not periſh as Salomon ſpeaketh? where his cauſe falleth flat to the ground. For if the people periſh / where be no preachers / althowgh there be readers / and cōtrariwiſe preaching withowt bare reading / ſaueth / engendreth faith / and nouriſheth yt: yt is manifeſt that the word redd is not ſo effectuall as preached / and that by bare reading ordinarily / there is no ſaluation / and therfore alſo no faith / both which he before denied. And if the people periſh withowt preaching / which hauehave already bene lightened by it. how muche more (except the Lord worcke extraordinarily) muſt they periſh / that neuer had preaching?

Where he ſaith / both preaching, and bare reading be neceſſary in the church: yf he meane publikely / as yt is true in preaching / ſo yt is vntrue in ſimple reading. For although yt be very conuenient which is vſed in ſome churches / where before preaching time the church aſſembled hath the ſcriptures redd / in ſuche order that the whole Canon theroff is oftentimes in one yeare run thorough: yet a nombre of churches which hauehave no ſuch order of ſimple reading / can not be in this point charged with breach of Gods commaundement: which they might be / if ſimple reading were neceſſary. Conſidering eſpecially that ſome off them beſide their ſet ſermons / expounding eueryevery day paraphraſtically two chapters / with the principall pointes theroff taken / and applied vntounto their auditors: gaine that which the D. owt of Bucer / preſuppoſeth to come onelyonly by ſimple reading / that the ſcripture therby is made familiar vntounto the people. Where he ſaith they be moſte profitable: the wine off this error ſo fumeth into his head / that it hath taken away the vſe off his toung. for two thinges to one and the ſame end / can not (but very vnproperly) be ſaied moſt profitable. For if preaching be moſte profitable to worcke faith by / then is not reading: if reading / thē is not preaching. it is true that mē ſometime ſpeake ſo) when the queſtiō is not of compariſon betweene thoſe thinges they ſpeake off: but otherwiſe / it is altogether ſtraunge.

Where he ſaith preaching is more apt for the ignorant, and vnlearned, and that he denieth not this: the vntruth theroff is apparant. For if preaching be more profitable to the vnlearned then reading / and de at leaſt as profitable to the learned: then yt is falſe that he hath ſet downe with ſo great aſſurance / that reading is as effectuall as preaching: ſeing the effect we ſpeake off / is the profit off the hearers. Yet as a man ſtrawght off his wittes ſtriketh him ſelfe: he ouerthroweth this alſo in an other place. for in aſking why Ioſia cauſed the lawe to be redd▪ except it had as great force to pag. 577.perſwade redd as preached: he ſignifieth the contrary off that heere affirmed. Conſidering that the greateſt part was off the commen people / and that groſſe: as thoſe which newly came owt off filthy idolatry. Further if preaching were as meet for the learned / and meeter for the rude: then his reaſon there / which imagineth that Ioſia would not otherwiſe hauehave cauſed the law to be redd / onles there had bene as great fruict in reading as preaching / falleth flat. Conſidering that the D. confeſſeth / that preaching is more effectuall to the people: and I thincke dare not deny / but it is as effectuall to the learned. Therfore the reaſon why Ioſias cawſed the law to be redd / was not becawſe reading was as effectuall as preaching: but becauſe being both redd and preached / yt profiteth more then when yt is ſymply redd.

Where he ſaieth marry hauehave bene called by bare reading: he ſaith yt againe and againe / but withowt all proofe. For where (altogether owt off place / his pourpoſe being to proue that reading edifieth more then preaching) he faith God vſed reading at a meanes to call Auguſtine: yt is vaine / ſeing the queſtion is / whether he vſed that onelyonly meanes, for yt appeareth that Auguſt. had greatly profited in godlines / before that time wherin he heard the miraculous voice / which ſent him to reading. Beſide that / the voice he telleth off going before his reading / will not ſuffer that that reading onelyonly / may chalenge the whole meanes off conuerſion. Likewiſe that he affirmeth owt M. For / off many browght to light pag. 576.off the goſpell by reading onelyonly: he maketh not / nor (as I am perſwaded) could make yt appeare. Although yt be confeſſed / that that may be doone by the Lordes extraordinary worcking / which feedeth ſometime with quarles in the wildernes. Yet yt is hard to ſhewe any time / wherein there hauehave bene profeſſors off the goſpell / and God hath not raiſed vp ſome miniſters / which hauehave ether openly / or ſecretly as the time required / preached the word: conſidering that euen in thoſe deſolations of the church / the Lord Apoc. 11. 3.by his tvvo vvitneſſes promiſeth / that the church ſhal not be deſtitute off true miniſters.

Where confeſſing the vvord preached and red all one, I Diuiſ. 8. Pag. 573.ſhew notwithſtanding that as the fyre ſtirred gyueth more heat, ſo the vvord as yt vvere blovven by preaching, flameth more in the hearers, then vvhen it is redd: he anſwereth that this is to ione with the Papiſtes in condemning the ſcriptures of obſcurity. but reaſon he can ſhew none: and it is all one / as if one ſhould be charged to hauehave ſaide that the Sonne is darck / for that he affirmeth yt lighter at noone daies then at the Sonne riſing. Then he muſte vnderſtand / that we place not this difference of lightſomnes in the worde / which is alwaies in it ſelfe moſt lightſom / red and preached: but partly in the ordinance off God before noted / making that the ſpeciall meanes / partly in the darcknes of our vnderſtanding / which withowt the aide off preaching can not come to ſufficient knowledge off yt. Laſtely he muſt learne / that althowghe all thinges neceſſary to ſaluacion / might by reading onelyonly be vnderſtanded: yet yt followeth not / that a man may by reading onelyonly be ſaued. For yt is one thinge to hauehave the ſcripture in his head / another to hauehave it in his heart: one thinge to vnderſtād yt / another to beleue yt / which beleef being onelyonly able to ſaue / ys ordinarily onelyonly ingendred by preaching.Heb. 11. 6. Ro. 10. 14

Wherby alſo we hauehave a peece off remedy / againſt another poiſon ſpit forthe in this diuiſ. that to thoſe which vnderſtand the ſcriptures they are as whot, and lightſome red as preached. For where in his former aſſertion although not in wordes / yet in deed he vtterly condemned the wiſedome off God / ordeining paſtors / and Doctors for continuall functions in the church / of whom there is no vſe / if ſimple reading be as effectuall as preaching: that being wrung owt off his handes / in that he is compelled to confeſſe greater efficacy off preaching towardes the vnlearned: yet rather thē all this cobweb ſhould be vnweaued / he maketh the miniſtery off preaching voide towardes the learned. Wheras the ſcripture doth not onelyonly generally / but particularly / and expreſly ſhut vp the ſaluation off the learned in the meanes off preaching / as Ro. 10. 14 …. Cor. 21. Ro. 1. 14.off the vnlearned. But this is a peece off the doctorall diuinity of ſome in Camebridge / which to excuſe their ſhamefull contempt off preaching / and to make them a pillow to ſleepe on / or to pane them an alley to bowle in during ſermons in the afternoone: ſhame not to alledge / that they cā profit as much in reading the ſcriptures / or an homily owt off Chryſoſtome in their ſtudy / as by hearing a ſermon in the church.

VntoUnto the example off the Eumuche, vvhichwhich reading the ſcripture belieued not vntill he heard Philip preach, he anſwereth that he vnderſtood yt not, and that he ſpeaketh off an vnderſtanding reader. Which although it be vntrue / the wordes off his former booke being generall / withowt ſo much as the leaſt ſignification off exception: yet it is nothing worth. For the cauſe why he could not vnderſtand yt is there aſſigned / for that he had no teacher Act 8. verſ. 31.to ſhew him the way. Wherby followeth not (which the Papiſtes conclude off this place) that the people owght not to read the ſcriptures: ſeing the Eunuch which both knew / and confeſſed that he could not vnderſtand withowt a guide / exerciſed him ſelf diligently in reading off them. but this followeth / that a man can not ordinarily not onelyonly come to ſaluacion / but not ſo much as to a ſufficient knowledge off it / withowt preaching. Where off infinite examples he ſaith one is as few as may be: yt appeareth this one was to muche for him to anſwer.

Now for all the falſe accuſations / off ioyning with papiſtes in deſpiſing off reading the ſcripture, &c. once heare yowr one proces / that yt is yow that ſtrengh then their handes. For as in popery / by committing the office off preaching eſpecially vntounto the beggerly friers / and by declaring it more honorable for the biſhop to reade a maſſe / then to preach a ſermon / they ſet reading in the head / and preaching in the taile: ſo yow making ſimple reading as profitable as preaching / haſten after them / and if yow keepe the ſame paſe yow hauehave begon / it will not be long or euer yow ouertake them.

The D. hauing before made ſimple readers equall with preaching Diuiſ. 9. pag. 574.paſtors / in that he holdeth ſimple reading / as effectuall as preaching: heere in making bare reading better then preaching / preferreth the readers aboue the preachers. But in this later abſurdity / firſt as before he woulde make Muſculus his packhorſe / and therfore brawleth becawſe I laied it not vponupon Muſc. ſo princely is the D. that he would hauehave his faultes whipped vppon an other mans ſkin. but at leaſt I ſhould hauehave deuided it between them. As if I were matched with Muſculus. but the truth is / that he maketh not for him. For he compareth the profit taken of ſymple reading / and off a ſermon made of him which endeuoreth to make a glorious ſhew off eloquence / and learning rather then to apply him ſelf to the capacity off the ſimple: which is nothing to that in hand / where good reading is cōpared with good preaching. And therfore it is ridiculous the D. bringeth of bitter inuectiues, and contentious ſermons, &c. compared with orderly reading. For in this compariſon / it were not hard to proue (which is blaſphemy) that yt is better to reade a peece off Lyuy / then the bookes off the kinges: namely if Lyuy be ſimply red / and the other with interlining / and mixture off popiſhe interpretation. If one defending this would for maintenance off his compariſon bring this eſcape: would not all men hiſſe at him? this is his refuge alſo Pag. 717.to ſalue that he ſaied / off homilies red better then ſermons preached.

His other inſtance off a papiſt carying preiudice againſt all preachers, and therfore not moued once by their doctrine, in which notwithſtanding after by reading he is eſtabliſhed, is inſufficient. for if the Lord by his vertue ſhewed throwgh preaching / doo conuert men vttenly peruerted / and at enmity with all truth / and conſequently with Epheſ. 2.the miniſters theroff: how much more will he therby conuert papiſtes? which by doubting whether the goſpell be truth / or their ſuperſtitions hauehave ground / or no / cary not that enmyty the other doo / which hauehave no ſuch entrance. Then yow muſte vnderſtand / that as in the Sacramētes the Lord doth not alwaies at the ſame tyme they are miniſtred / worcke by his ſpirit / but chooſeth the time that ſeemeth good to his wiſedome: ſo yt is in preaching. wherby yt cometh to paſſe / that the ſpirit of God worcking faith at the time of reading / wrought it not by that meanes onelyonly: but vſed therunto the help off preaching / which went before. For as greene wood laied vpō fire / and her with many ſtrong blaſtes / as laſte ſet on fire / and flaming with one / and that a ſoft blaſte / is not to be be ſaied chiefly ſet on fire with the ſoft blaſte / becauſe it wēt immediatly before: euen ſo the word off God blowen by preaching / and after ſenſibly burning in the hearres of the hearers / by the meanes off reading immediatly gone before / is not ſo muche to be aſcribed vntounto reading / as preaching. Conſidering that ſo it might comme to paſſe (which is abſurd) that contemplacion off the creatures / ſhould profit more then reading. For wheras the Lord hath ſeth the print off the moſte off his promiſes / and other Math. 6. 16. &c.doctrines in the creatures: for example / off his fatherly care off prouiding al thinges neceſſary for his / in the prouiſion for birdes off the ayer / and rich array off the lilies off the field: yt may comme to paſſe / that that doctrine knowen by meanes off preaching / and lying as yt were dead in the heart / may after by ſight / and earneſt vewe off the thinges them ſelues / be quickened. yet none off iudgement will ſay / that the beholding off the creatures wrrowght more in this / then preaching. Howbeit if the caſes he putteth in this point were true: yet he is inexcuſable / thes plaiſters comming a ye are and a half / after the wound giuen by ſuch ſtraunge ſpeach: which owght to hauehave gone with yt / if peraduenture they might althowgh not heale / yet ſomewhat hide the lothſome rawnes.

Hytherto perteineth that which he hath diſorderly put pag. 176. where he ſaith / that the reading off Saint Paules epiſtles did the Romanes more good, thē preaching: which is cōtrary to S. Paules meaning / 1. Ro. 1….who ſheweth / that he could not hauehave the like fruice off his miniſtery towardes them / as off other nations / becauſe he was letted to comme / and preach vntounto them. His proofes comming a mile after / are firſt that a mans meaning is commenly better expreſſed by writing, then by word. Which beſide that it is confuted by commenſenſe / all men knowing that there is more certeine vnderſtanding by word off mouth / thē by lettres (which if any doubt ariſe in any word / can ſay nothing to the reſoluing off it) as yt is alledged / it can not tend but to vtter ſubuerſion off the lordes order / and to proue that commenly, and for the moſte part / it is better to hauehave reading / then preaching. The other is that writing remaineth: as if the queſtion were wether canonicall writing off the ſcriptures / were better then preaching: and not whether there be more fruict in bare reading that which is written / then preaching vppon yt.

In this chap. which ſuppoſeth reading preaching, beſide ſtraunge Diuiſ. …. pag. 575.aſſeuerations / and begging of that in controuerſie: there is nothing / ſauing that as abſurdities are fruictfull / this beggetteth other. for preſſed he ſhameth not to ſay / that a child off 4. yeare olde, is a preacher off the goſpell. And why not alſo a popeniay / tawght to pronounce ſome ſentences off ſcripture? for the D. reaſon (becauſe preaching 10 Rom. 14 is all publiſhing off the goſpell by externall voice) 569.ſerueth for one / as for the other. And beſide that it is friuolous that off that God ſpeaketh to vsus by reading / he would conclude that he preacheth to vsus / as though all ſpeaking were preaching: yt is abſurd that he ſaith / the ſcriptures are not preached in reſpect off him that readeth, but in reſpect of the ſpirit of God worcking in the hearers. For if reading were preaching / yt ſhould be preaching although it wrowght to condēnation: wheras by the D. all which hearing the word preached / profit not / are not preached vntounto. Which as it 2. Cor. 2: 15. Heb. 4. 12 Diuiſ. 2. pag. 576. 1. Tim 32is a groſſe error: ſo it is a ſhamefull derogation to the miniſtery off the word / worcking mightely not onelyonly to the ſaluation off the elect / but alſo throwgh their fault / to deſtruction off the reprobate.

To the places prouing that it is neceſſarily required in a miniſter / that he ſhould not onelyonly be ſufficiently learned / but hauehave Iſ. 50. 4.alſo the gift off vtterance: he anſwereth not. Towching that the prieſtes lippes ſhould kepe knowledge / and not his papers: he Malach. 2. 7.anſwereth that he ſhall hauehave it readier in his lippes, if he hauehave yt in his papers: which is not to pourpoſe / ſeing we ſpake off thoſe which hauehave yt onelyonly in papers. Then he hath a childiſh cauill / that if he reade he muſt vſe his lippes: as if the Prophet contented him ſelf if the prieſtes were able to reade onelyonly / and did not note therby the aptnes to teach / as by vncircumciſed lippes / is noted heauines / Exod 6. 12.or vnreadines off ſpeache. That a Preacher able for vtterance, and learning to preach, may reade a ſermon, if he meane priuately / is not in queſtion: if publikely / yt belongeth to the queſtion off Homilies. His caſe off a man pronouncing an other mans ſermon withowt booke / beſide the fondnes is from the cawſe. That the reading of Ieremies, and Baruchs bookes was preaching, becawſe the bookes were ſermons: ys to dreame / and not to diſpute.

The 15. 16. verſes Rom. 15. make nothing to proue reading preaching: but make rather againſt him / in that the Apoſtle ſhewing Diuiſ. 3. pag. 576. foreignthat his writing to them was grownded off Gods calling / ſowght a more generall word / off worcking for the goſpell: which agreeth to any action the miniſter doth by reaſon off his miniſtery / ether in miniſtring the Sacramentes / or otherwiſe. The difference Sainct Paul putteth between his preaching / is apparant 1. Ro. 15.althowgh the D. hath loſt his ſight. That S. Paul ment he could not perſonally preach vntounto them, is his addition / corrupting the minde off the Apoſtle. For where ſhewing that he had great deſire to be perſonally with them (form ſpirit he was not abſent) he addeth for a cawſe that he might preach: the D. by this anſwer / drowneth the effect in the cauſe / ād ſo maketh the Apoſtle aſſigne cawſes / which cawſe nothing / nor hauehave any thing to be referred vntounto. Where I ſhewe that S. Paul vvriting, is no more preaching then his hand, or penne he vvrote vvith be his toung, lightes, or other inſtrumentes he ſpake vvith: he anſwereth not / for that as he ſaith it is a ieſt. Where if his cauſe could ſpeake / it woulde complaine that he maketh no more account of it / then to eſteme her head ſtroked / when it is cracked a ſonder. for the reaſon is of the efficient cauſe / ſeing they can not be the ſame / which can not be made by the ſame inſtrumentes.

To mainteine his ridiculous demaunde (was not reading off Diuiſ. 4. pa 577.Deut. preaching) he ſhould hauehave ſhewed / that the reading off yt is rather preaching / then reading off Exodus: which he doth not. Howbeit he concludeth / that the reading theroff was preaching / becawſe the Lord commaunded that the prieſtes ſhould reade yt, that the people might learne to feare God: which is as ridiculous. For ſo peinting / and grauing off the ſcriptures is preaching / and peinters and grauers (which ſometimes knowe neuer a lettre off the booke) ſhall be come preachers. Conſidering that the Lord cōmaunded / Deut 27. 2. 3. & 6. 9 & 11. 20. 21.that the lawe ſhould be grauen in the entrance of their land / and writtē vpō their cytie gates / and howſes: to this end that the people might learne to feare God / &c. After he aſketh / why Ioſia ſhould cawſe the lawe to be redd, if reading had not bene off at great force to perſwade as preaching: which phrenſie belonging to another queſtion / is anſwered before. Where he concludeth / that for that reading Diuiſ. 4. pag. 570.is as effectuall as preaching, therfore it is preaching: beſide the falſehood off the antecedent / the concluſion is too bad. for if the raine be as effectuall to cawſe the fruictes grow / as the ſonne / and meat as effectuall to perſerue the life / as drincke: it followeth not therfore that the raine is the ſonne / or meat drincke.

Where vppon Nehem. 8. he would proue reading preaching: verſ. 3. 4.there is not a word wheron it may be gathered / but contrariwiſe they are manifeſtly diſtinguiſhed in that chap. For beſide reading there mentioned / he ſetteth forth preaching by all theſe wordes / that the Leuites cavvſed the people to vnderſtand the lavv, gaue the ſenſe off the lavv, cavvſed them to vnderſtand the reading. And where pag. 91. he ſaith / that the wordes tranſlated off ſome they gaue the ſenſe, ſignify nothing les thē that there was any expoſition 8. Nehē 7. 8.ioined with reading, bearing him ſelf vppon learners interpreters: ſeing he ſeeth no further into this / then with other mennes eies / why ſhould not he hauehave followed the iudgement off the Geneua tranſlation / which he pincheth? they being learned men / and moe in nombre then as (I thincke) he can alledge. Which I ſay not to iuſtify that tranſlation throwghowt / or to ſhut vp the way gainſt a better: but becauſe it ſeemeth an vnworthy thing / to refuſe their iudgement vponupon bare autoritie. I hauehave none off his learned men to looke their iudgementes / howbeit for that I finde one off the Hebrues ſo expounding the wordes: I will not deny but ſome other deceiued by him / might fall into that error. VntoUnto whom althowgh I could oppoſe an other / flatly expounding theſe verſes off reading ioined with expoſition / the expoſition off the former not ſhutting owt preaching: yet I had rather my confutation ſtand of reaſon / then autoritie. Which is that the holy goſt ſhewing in the 7. verſe / that the Leuites made the people vnderſtand the law / in the 8. ſheweth howe they did it. for (ſaith he) they redd in the booke off the lavv diſtinctly, and in giuing the ſenſe, cauſed them to vnderſtand the reading Wheras thoſe wordes which are tourned (gyuing the ſenſe) can not … withowt a gap / be caried to the peoples attentiue hearing: conſidering that it is ſpoken in that verſe off the Leuites / withowt reſuming off the people ether expreſly naming them / or obſcurely by any article. Which hard translations when an other ſenſe doth well agree to the ſuit off the text / are by all meanes to be auoided. That thes wordes (the Leuites cavvſed the people vnderſtand the lavv) be nothing els but they made them gyue diligent eare vntounto the reading: yt is violent. For beſide that it is againſt the generall rule / not to run to a figuratiue ſpeach / when the ſimple will (which the D. can not deny) agree with the reſidue off the text: eſpecially when both this / and the other interpretation (they Luk. 4. 17 &c. Act. 13. 15 & 15. 21. verſ. 12.gaue the ſenſe) are confirmed by the practiſe off the churche: yt is vnconfirmed by any conference off ſcripture / or circumſtance of place: confuted alſo by that this word is expounded by an other / they made them knovv the lavv. Where the ſcripture ſpeaking off one thing diuerſly / if it ſpeake figuratiuely in one word / vſeth to ſpeake properly in an other.

Where both by the wordes and practiſe of the church in other places / I ſhewed the place off the Actes to be vnderſtanded Diuiſ. 5. Pag 577. Act. 15. 21off reading, and preaching iointly: the D. not anſwering the reaſon / ſaith that the place is euidently for him, which is a begging off that in queſtion: that he can reade no interpreter which enterpreteth yt otherwiſe, no one being browght which followeth that ſenſe: that the circumſtance off the place maketh for him, becawſe Saint Iames vſeth for a reaſon, to proue that the Iewiſh ceremonies could not be forthwith aboliſhed, that Moſes had by reading of the law eueryevery Sabboth ſo great autority: which is manifeſtly againſt him. for it maketh more for the confirmation of S. Iames ſentence that he was both redd / and preached eueryevery ſabboth / then if he had bene onelyonly redd: cōſidering that his authority was ſo much the deeper ſetled in the heartes off the Iewes.

Hytherto perteineth that in the end off his booke / where he trifleth for that the Adm. expoundeth (reading is not feading) Pag. 784.by this it is bare feading: which is vnworthy anſwer / conſidering it is receiued in all tounges / often to deny that to be doon / in diu. 10. pag. 243.which is doon inſufficiently / as is before noted. That alſo he ſaith there / repeted p. 718. off diſſent with my ſelf, for that ſaying there that bare reading withowt a miracle can not ſaue from famiſhement, I ſay in an other place that the word off God is eaſy, giuing vnderſtanding to idiots, is friuolous. Conſidering that I ſpake off reading / not vtterly ſeparate from preaching. Yf it be eaſy and gyue vnderſtanding by preaching / and reading togither / although not ſo by reading onelyonly: that ſtandeth which I hauehave ſet downe. That he exclameth off that ſentence / as Papiſticall, &c. I hauehave ſhewed how it is catholike / and his Papiſticall that maketh ſo eaſy a way to ſaluatiō withowt preaching. yt is well with vsus / and the ſcriptures kepe their honour / if they bring to the elect ſaluatiō / vſed / and applied as the order which the lord hath ſet / requireth. onles paraduenture he will ſay the holy Sacramētes leeſe their honour / when it is ſaied they are not effectuall to ſaluacion / without men be inſtructed by preaching before they be partakers off them.

Hauing ſhewed that bare reading off ſcriptures / can not make vnpreaching miniſters occupy any place in the church: remaineth yet the reading of Homilies / with the Apocrypha: in which couer is ſowght for thē againſt the ſentēce of condēnatiō / and ſtorme of the Lordes wrathfull iudgement / which will follow if they repēt not ſpeedely. for where thes dry nources hauehave no milke of their owne: the D. will hauehave thē yet giuegive ſucke / although of the becaſtes of others. But this kinde off milke hauing taken winde / ſhall appeare not to be ſo fit to nouriſh / as that it may come into the church for a ſupply of ſermone. yt is enough if as for ſupport off the nource / ſometimes other then hers be taken: ſo to ſpare the paſtor hardly able eueryevery day to preach / the godly Chriſtian ſtrenghthen him ſelf with them at home. In which treatiſe firſt cometh the D. reaſon (Auguſtin, and Chryſoſtome preached ſermons in their Pag. 297.churches, therfore we may reade ſermons in ours.) The abſurditie wheroff leſt it ſhould be hidden / he hath made a great deale bigger. for charged with it he anſwereth / that the committing them by writing vntounto poſterity, argueth that they thought them very profitable vntounto the church. ſo that his argument is / they are profitable / therfore they may be red publikely in the church. As if there were no profit reaped by reading thē priuatly: or as if al thinges profitable for the church / may be red openly in yt. where are browght in to publike reading / whole cartlodes off diſputations of the Catholikes with Papiſtes▪ Anabaptiſtes / Arians: likewiſe of Eccleſiaſticall ſtories a hudge heape / and other rables of heritikes / and ſchiſmatikes: which being profitable / hauehave the D. ladder to clime vp into the pulpit. But one thing we may note▪ what is that? that Auguſt and Chryſoſtom writ their ſermons, therfore it may be they red them ſometimes in the church. If yow be in earneſt / in earneſt yow are a ſleepe. For ſo far be yow from concluding iuſtly / that it is meet to reade them in the church: that yow conclude not they were ſo much as red. I pray yow hauehave any off our homilimakers / red their homilies in the churches? I thinck not: onles it hauehave bene ſince yow wrote / to make yowr argument ſeeme good. So in thincking to make one note, yow make two ſhamefull blots. yow ſee not why they may not aſwell now be red in the church, as then preached: a pitifull blindnes / wheroff the remedy if yow will open yow eyes / followeth. Now to come to the 3. chap. Tract. 21.

The firſt / and ſecond diu. be not worth the anſwer / the third is anſwered / except that he ſaith / the Adm. proued not the ſufficiency off the ſcripture by 1. Cor 1. 18. 1. Ro. 16. becawſe there be manifeſt places for that pourpoſe: as though it were thus to be charged / if it vſed places which proue that / although not the fitteſt. Where vppon that the Lord admitteth no inſtrumētes be they neuer ſo vile, in the Exod. 30. 29. Num. 10. 2.ſeruice of the temple, nor trūpets in aſſembling the people, but vvhichwhich vvere ſanctified to that vſe, although others vvere as apt to doo the vvorcke as they, I concluded that homilies, &c. not ſanctified of the Lord to that pourpoſe, ovvght to be kept ovvt: he anſwereth / that ſimilitudes be no ſufficient proofe, and that the Lord did not commaund that nothing ſhould be red in the church but canonicall ſcripture, not remembring that it is the holy ghoſtes / which teacheth that the tabernacle with the veſſels / were made according to the patron off the church now. The which in the holy trumpetes is Heb 8. 9.more clearly ſeen: conſidering that the holy goſt commaunding them to be blowen by the prieſtes alone / and comparing the publicke Num. 10. 8. Iſ. 58. 1.teaching with the ſound off them: doth not obſcurely declare / that they were ſhadowes therof. Therfore as the trumpet… were ſancrified to the temple / by the commaundement off God: ſo to make Homilies holy in Gods principall / and publicke ſeruice / the like autoritie is required.

Where I ſhew that nether homilies, nor Apocrypha are to be compared in goodne… in themſelues, nor in fruict tovvard the hearer, vvith the ſcripture, and reading theroff (wherin the D. laboured not, but …o…ered / againſt the Adm.) he anſwereth that nothing can therby be concluded againſt homilies, which may not be againſt ſermons, and other interpretations, and rather againſt ſermons then homilies: which is deteſtable. For therby he affirmeth / that homilies are both better in them ſelues / and red more fruictfull to the hearers / then the word off God preached. Wherin he controileth alſo the order off our church / which will hauehave homilies gyue place / …f there be any to preach. For confutacion wheroff I ſend the reader to that before diſputed▪ for if the word preached / be more fruictfull then the word yt ſelff red: then reading off homilies inferior in fruict to the reading of ſcriptures (by the D. confeſſion heere) muſt be muche more inferior to the word preached. His reaſon is / for I make no make no other difference betwixt homilies, and ſermons, but that one is pronounced within booke, the other not ſo. Belike homilies / and ſermons are equall in all other thinges: yet homilies excell ſermons / in that they are red in the booke / the other is doon by liuely voice. But is there no difference at all but this? firſt …et h…m vnderſtand / that ſermons in the churche / are expreſly commaunded off the Lord / are ſuch as are neceſſary for all churches / and which no one can want. As for homilies / if they were in this dearth off preaching graunted conuenient for our church: yet hauehave they no commaundement / wherby they are made neceſſary / and ſuch as the church is bound vntounto: they alſo are ſuch / as ether all / or the moſt floriſhing churches hauehave not. In which difference there is as great a goulf between them / as is betwen heauen and earth. I ſpeake off them now / as if they were conueniently ordeined. For although in ſuch caſe / during the conuenience / they ought to be kept as profitable orders off the church: yt thes chaungeable conſtitutions / compared with the eternall ſawe off God / are infinitely inferior. ſo it is vtterly falſe which he ſaith afterward / all kinde off publiſhing the doctrine in ſcripture, hauehave neceſſary vſes in the church. Wherby he maketh thinges neceſſary to ſaluaceō / nether expreſſed / nor neceſſarily concluded of the ſcripture: and condēneth in this behalf / all churches which ether hauehave bene / or are / not receiuing the vſe off homilies. Thus ones the ſingular fruict off preaching the word / is manifeſt to be ſo much greater then homilies reading / as the meanes ordeined off the lord / is more fruictful then that off men.

Secondly if they were conuenient / yet they might both be made / and publickely red / withowt any of thoſe ordinary miniſteries which the lord hath appointed in his word. for a priuate mā may write them / as he may doo a commentary: and if a miniſter make them / yet he doth nor that by bond off his miniſtery. for then he ſhould leaue a part off it vndoon / which wrote not homilies: and hauing doon all other partes / ſhould be gilty off the not fulfilling off it / for omitting this. ſeing therfore there is no commaunded miniſtery off God required / nether in making / nor reading Rom. 10. 15.of them / and ſermōs can not be made withowt: there is heere an other ſingular difference / lifting vp preaching with the fruict theroff / ſo far aboue homilies red▪ as the Lordes autoriſed Embaſſadour with his broad ſeale / and letters patentes / is aboue him in whom no ſuch markes appeare, withowt whoſe miniſtery when (as I hauehave ſhewed) faith can not be engendred / nor men ordinarily ſaued: there being plentifull ſaluaciō withowt homilies reading / as appeareth both otherwiſe / and by other churches where they are not: the difference of preaching with the fruict theroff / is incomparably more / then that by homilies reading.

The third difference is / that where ſermons are applied to the preſent circumſtance / which by chaunge off times / budding off new vices / riſing of errors / &c. vary almoſt eueryevery day this kinde off interpretation (as that which is ſtarcke / and annūmed) can not pourſue them. for where the preacher with his ſermon / is able according to the manifold windinges / and turninges of ſinne / to winde / and turne in with yt / to thend he may ſtricke it: the homilies are not able to turne / nether off the right hand / nor off the left / but to what quarter ſoeuer the enemies are retyred / yt muſt keepe the traine wherin it was ſet off the maker. And if it were poſſible (which is not) to make homilies againſt all diſeaſes off vices / and errors: and that were alſo graunted / that the reading miniſters could both diſcerne the ſickenes / and apply the medicine laied vp in the homily / which requireth the ſkill off a learned man: yet as no phyſicion (how cunning ſoeuer) can ſo well preſcribe at ones / and in groſſe againſt a diſeaſe / as he that vponupon eueryevery ſtep yt maketh giueth counſeill / and applieth his medicine: ſo no homily maker / be he neuer ſo great a diuine / can at ones / and before hand preſcribe ſo apt / and ſtrōg remedies againſt ſinne / as he that doth yt vponupon the preſent occaſion. Homilies then not able to comme to the vices / further then vices cōme to them: their vſe for this / and other cawſes aforeſaied / is priuate. For a mā feeling him ſelf aſſaulted in any wiſe / and knowing a treatiſe arming him againſt that aſſault / may for his vſe be profitably occupied in it. I leaue the difference in giftes / inſtrumentall cauſes off ſermons / and homilies: when as beſide the giftes required in homilies ether reading / or making / there are in ſermons required the gift off vtterance / and memory. I paſſe alſo that the D. in ſaying there is no difference between an homily red, and a ſermon preached, but that the one is pronounced within booke, the other not ſo: maketh no differēce between hym that writeth his ſermon / and readeth it / and him that readeth an other man̄es / not able to make one him ſelf. this ſhall be ſufficlent to hauehave ſhewed that abſurdity.

Where alſo goe to the ground other abſurdities / laied vppon this foundacion: as that the promeſſe off the aſsiſtance off gods ſpirit, is as well gyuen to writers of homilies, and their hearers: as to ſtudiers for pag. 718.ſermons, and thoſe which heare them. as if he had ſaied / the Lord will giuegive teſtimonie to his word / as wel by the meanes which mē hauehave deuiſed: as that him ſelf hath ordeined. Likewiſe that ſermons ſhould be kept owt off the church, as well as homilies, if they ſhould be ſhut Ibi. diu. 5.owt becauſe they are mennes interpretation. conſidering that the preacher albeit he be a man / yet in reſpect off his publicke miniſtery / inſtituted / and commaund of the Lord / is as the angell off God / yea as Chriſt him ſelf: which can not be ſaied off homily readers / Gal. 4. 14 2. Cor. 5. 20. Diuiſ. 5. Pag. 718.nor makers / eſpecially in that reſpect. To that I alledge off the couſtome off the Churches / before our Sauiour Chriſtes comming / and after / towching homilies not vſed in the church, and that in ſuch time vvhen there vvas greateſt vſe off them: he anſwereth / that the argument is of autoritie negatiuely. where I leaue to the iudgement off the reader / what likelihood there is / that there were any homilies red in the church / whē both holy / and eccleſiaſticall writers / making mētiō of the forme of ſeruice of God in the church / to the leaſt / and ſmalleſt ceremonies: there is none diuers 100. yeares / that ones voucheſafeth to mention homilies reading / which the D. matcheth with preaching / the higheſt ſeruice off God in his church.

Where he ſaith / that I condemne thargument drawen off mennes autoritie, yt is vntrue: I ſaid it conſtreineth not. And I ſpake of it where yt is queſtion off ſearching the truth off a matter / wherin many eaſely deceiued / none knoweth the full off it: and not off reporting thinges doone in preſence off him that writeth / wherof he making profeſſion to write / can not withowt groſſe ouerſight / paſſe by. where he ſaith / yt is an euill argument to conclude off a thing not doon, that it ſhovld not be doon: if the churches gouerned by the Prophetes / and Apoſtles did it not / it being put as a peece off the ſeruice off God / and as the D. ſaith. neceſſary: ether they faulted in not vſing this meanes / which is abſurd / or the D. which defendeth the vſe off it. He ſaith / I can not but acknowledge one good ſermon red, to edify more then the Chalde paraphraſtes. ſo deſtitute off meanes to refute the reaſon I ſet downe / why a ſhort paraphraſis was meeter then homilies, namely for that they approched nerer vntounto the reading off the ſcripture vvhichwhich is beſt: he ſetteth his cauſe at my courteſie. But if I graūt that he aſketh / he is nothing nerer: onles he can proue that a learned homily / is fitter then a learned paraphraſe made now in this great light / which the Chalde paraphraſtes could not hauehave when they wrote. So that although they expounding darckly / according to the time they wrote in / be not ſo fit now to reade / as an homily: yet yt ſtandeth ſtill / that a pharaphraſt is fitter to be red then an homily. Where he ſaith / I know that the Iewes hauehave thes paraphraſtes yet red: I ſhewed both by ſcripture ād otherwiſe / that they had thē not openly red / when there was greateſt neede off them. Yf they had them after when diuers corruptions were entred / or now when they are the ſynagogue off Satan / tha… maketh rather for me. They which tould hym that Ionathan was 42. yeares before our Sauiour Chriſt / if they ment therby to confute that I ſet downe / ſhould hauehave gyuen him ſomething to anſwer the autoritie I alledged. Although he might be well 42. yearers before our Sauiour Chriſt / and then too: conſidering he was ſchoole fellow to Symeon / off whom S. Luke maketh mention.

The teſtimonies off Denis, and Clements Epiſtles red in the church, to proue it vntrue which I affirmed / off the churches practiſe towching reading off the ſcriptures alone / after the Apoſtles tmes / are in that reſpect idle: conſidering that I onelyonly ſhewed / that that couſtome continued after their tymes / which were the beſt / and pureſt. Nether can the breaking off this order by ſome churches / vppon ſome occaſion / let why it may not truly be ſaied both the couſtome / and practiſe. Yf the Centuries coniecture were receiued / that Denis epiſtles were red / as Clementes: yet that proueth not that they were red generally / conſidering that Clements was red but in certeine churches. But what if it be ſaied / that they were red in thoſe churches / for that they were vntruly Hieron. in catal. illuſtriū ſcript.thowght of the Canon of the ſcripture? Wherto ſerueth not onelyonly that Deniſes were called Catholike / but Clements weighty / and wonderfull. Likewiſe that Euſeb. eſteeming Clement the canonicall 3. lib 16. Lib. 3. 27.tranſlatour off the Epiſt. to the Hebrues: yt is not vnlike / but he had that epiſtle in like eſtimation. Laſt off all for that as he lightly reiected the true canonicall bookes off Saint Iames / Iude / and ſecond off Saint Peter: ſo he lightly held thoſe for canonicall / Lib. 2. 23. Lib. 3. 3.which were not yf I anſwer thus / my coniecture hath better reaſon / then yow yet ſhew: and then the reading off theſe epiſtles helpeth yow not. yow hauehave onelyonly Soters / which help nothing more / being red onelyonly at Corinth. Howbeit it ſhall be ſufficient anſwer / that as other corruptions crept in then: ſo the ſeed of this began to be ſowen / and that the credit which yowr cawſe gaineth in that diuerſe churches red them: yt leeſeth in that diuerſe others receiued them not. Likewiſe it maketh againſt him / that the councell giueth no place vntounto homilies / but in extreme caſes off ſicknes / &c. off the miniſter: where he maketh them the peoples ordinary food. The councell as it were in a great drowght / or ſnow when all is couered / will hauehave the ſheep holpen with this hard meat the D. will hauehave it their commen allowance. Beſide that it is the obiectiō / which I myſelf im̄ediatly after preuented: pa 720.my anſwer wherunto the D. towcheth not but onelyonly affirmeth it a good decree, and no cawſe off corruption: which is groſſe beggery. conſidering / that I ſhew how vppon occaſion theroff / in time came in the popiſh Legend / and Gregories homilies: which iuſtled owt the holy Bible.

Where I ſhewed that Bucers wordes ſecme counterfeit / Diuiſ. 6. pag. 720.wherby he is browght exhorting to encreaſe the nomber off homilies, when the Lord ſhould bleſſe the realme with learned preachers: foraſmuch as there were then learned preachers / able to make homilies / which ſhould hauehave exceded the volume of the Bible: he anſwereth / that there is no cauſe to ſuſpect them, but the reaſon he can not anſwer. After he cyteth M Ridly but fondly. for if the autority off all thoſe which eſtabliſhed that order / be not able to make yt good: much leſſe his alone / and being a party in this cawſe he owght not (albeit a ſingular mā) be witnes. Where I alledged the councell councell of Laodicea / ordeining that nothing ſhould be red in the Diuiſ. 7. pag. 71…. 59 can.church / but the canonicall ſcripture: he anſwereth / the councellment, nothing vnderunder the name of holy ſcriptures: which is an open / and ſhamefull corruption. for after the councell had ſaied / that the goſpels with other ſcriptures / ſhould be red on Sabboth daies: yt addeth / vve muſt not read bookes vvhichwhich are ovvt off the canon, but the canonicall bookes off the old, and novv teſtament alone. And where he would cōfirme his interpretatiō by the 47. canon off the third councell off Carthage: he is againe indebted In the def Apolo. 5. part. 3. cha 10. dluiſ.vntounto Harding / which againſt Maiſter Iewell / alledging the councell off Carthage / to proue that it commaunded nothing ſhould be red in Chriſtes congregation / but the Canonicall ſcriptures anſwereth with the ſame wordes the D. doth / charging him with falſehood. To whom as now alſo to the D. the biſhop anſwereth / that the meaning off the councell vvas, that nothing els ſhoulde be red: which he proueth by the councell off Hippo / an abridgement off that off Carthage: whene it is thus written. The ſcriptures canonicall vvhichwhich are to be red in the chap. 38.church, and beſide vvhichwhich nothing may be red: and ſo goeth forward alledging other teſtimonies / affirming partly that nothing owght / partly that nothing was wont / to be red in the church beſide holy ſcripture.

His anſwer to the councell off Colen / is too childiſh. The councels wordes in the ſixt Canon are theſe / vvhere in times paſt yt vvas ordeined off the moſt holy fathers, that the holy ſcriptures alone ſhoulde be red in the church: vve knovve not by vvhat careleſnes, other not to be compared vvith them, are come into their place. Wherby appeareth / that it condemneth not onelyonly reading off ſainctes liues, wheroff it ſpeaketh after: but generally the breach of the councels decree / that nothing ſhould be red in the church / but holy ſcripture. Where he muſeth how we can ſay, that reading off homilies were meanes to inſtle the bible into corners, ſeing we will hauehave the reading of ſcriptures giuegive place to preaching: I hauehave ſhewed how groſſe / and intollerable ignorance it is / where I proued the excellency of preaching before ſimple reading off ſcriptures / but eſpecially before homilies. The obiection which I made off Diuiſ. 8. Pag. 721.praier / is anſwered: the anſwer is not ones moued, as for that the neceſsity off chaunging the wordes off ſcripture in praier, is as ſtrong againſt ſermons preaching, as homilies reading: I hauehave ſhewed how falſe it is: when as that chaunge is autoriſed by preciſe commaundement off God / which can not be ſhewed for reading homilies His reaſon that the Apocrypha may be red in the church / becawſe the councell off Carthage decreing onelyonly the reading off canonicall ſcripture / tooke them in that nomber / adding that they be aſwell red in the church / as counted portions off the ould / and new teſtament: is abſurd. For ſeing it is vtterly vnlawfull for them / to take them as portions off the ould / and new teſtament: yt followeth by his owne reaſon / that it is vtterly vnlawfull for them / to be openly red.

Where he ſaith / there is nothing in them contrary to the reſt off the ſcripture, accounting them as a part: althowgh the reaſon be nothing worth / conſidering that ſo a booke gathered owt off Cato / Theognes / and Cebes tables / &c. may be red in the churche: yet I anſwer / that there be many places partly plainly contrary to the holy ſcripture / partly friuolous / and vnworthy to be red. For Eſoras Apocrypha / I will refer the reader partly vntounto Caluins In his Opuſc.cenſure of them (the treatiſe I doo not preciſely remember / ſauing that it is like to be in one of thoſe againſt the Anabaptiſts / or Libertines / whoſe goſpell thoſe bookes be) and partly to the manifeſt contradiction with the holy ſcripture: which referring Apoc. … li. 1. c 2 &c …ſd… … 2. Gen. 34. 2… Gen 49 5 Iudith. 9. 2. 3. 4.the genealogy off Eſra vntounto Eleazar / to whom the prieſthood belonged / is by the Apocrypha referred vntounto Ely / and conſequently vntounto Ithamar / to whom yt did not apperteine. Off ſome off the other I will gyue a few examples. Where the holy goſt condemneth the fact off Simeon / and Levy towardes the Sichemites: Iudith in propounding it for example / and to ſtrenghthen her faith in the cutting off off Holofernus head / alloweth yt. If it be ſaied / but the booke doth not allow it. The ſcripture neuer propoundeth a faultie praier withowt condemning off it / eſpecially ſo long.

The ſonne off aChap. 4…. 20.Syrach / affirming that the true Samuell prophecyed after his death / leaueth the diſquieting off the iuſt / in the courteouſie off coniurers: which is vngodly doctrine / and contrary to that peace the bLuk. 16 22.ſcripture ſaith they be in. where cDan. 3. 23. 25.Daniell ſheweth that the fire bourned / after the three young Apoc. 14. 13.men were throwen into it / to the commendation of the power of God / which kept them from ſuffring in any part off it: the counterfait dver. 49. off the 3. childrens ſong.Daniell / affirming that the Angell ſmote the flame off the fire owt of the fournace / and cawſed as it were a moiſt hiſſing winde in the middeſt / &c. partly falſifieth / partly diſcrediteth Daniel / as one that lefte owt ſuch weightie thinges as he there ſuppoſeth. I paſſe by how vnworthy yt is / that eEccleſiaſticus 31 21.he that hath ouereaten him ſelff / is bidden to riſe / and goe vomit / and after get him ſelf to reſt: which are preceptes fitter for the kitchin / then for the church Likewiſe fMacha. 2. 2. 1. &c.the Iewiſh fable / of the fire takē to be hidden / and other ſuch toies / and of g& 2. 14. 38. 42.commending him that ſlue him ſelf: off h& 2. 15. 39.demaunding pardon off the reader / a language vnmeet for the holy goſt. Thes few off a nomber which come to minde / ſhall ſuffiſe for a taſt.

And be cauſe the D. taſteth nothing but autoritie off men / he hath iad Laetam.Ierome of this minde: which writing to a woman / biddeth her take heed off all the Apocrypha, affirming that they are not theirs vvhoſe names they beare, that there are many faulty thinges mingled, and that it requireth vviſdome, to ſeeke for gold in durt. kIerom. In praef. in Dan. ibid. Ieron. praef. in prou.The hymne alſo off the three children / he runneth throwgh: where Eraſmus ieſtingly ſaith / it is merueill that Ierome putteth this ſong vpō the ſpit (meaning / condemneth it) ſeing it is both red, and ſoung in churches eueryevery vvhere, as if it vvere ſome ſpeciall holy thing. Wherby it is not vnlike but that he ſpeaketh in another place / off the reading off Apocrypha to edyfying off the people, not to confirmation off the doctrine is ſpoken rather ſtory wiſe / in telling what was doon in that time / thē what he allowed. for if it be daungerous for one to read them priuately / howe muſt it needes be more to read them openly? onles it be with expoſition / which is yet more abſurd. Except paraduenture to reconcile Ierome / one had rather interprete thoſe wordes the church reades, off the priuate reading of eueryevery one off the church: wheroff there are examples.

Now I muſt put the D. alſo in minde / that nether in his firſt / nor later booke / he hath anſwered the Adm. reaſon / towching priuate reading onelyonly of the Apocrypha: becauſe their name vvhichwhich ſignifieth ſecret, or hid doth ſpeake as much. If he will ſay / they are ſo called becauſe the writers of thē are vnknowen: he can not ſo eſcape / cōſidering that this name doth put a difference betwene them / and canonicall: which it could not / if that ſignification ſhould be followed. for part of the writers of canonicall bookes / as of Ioſue / Iudges / Sam. Chron. Kinges / &c. are vnknowen. To that wherin the booke is charged / for lifting vp of diuers cha. of the Apocrypha, to be red as extra ordinary leſſons vppon feaſt daies, vvherin there are greateſt aſſemblies, ſome chap. off canonicall ſcripture being not red at all: he anſwereth not a word / but leaueth it to ſpeake for it ſelf. Seing then the ſcripture preciſely forbiddeth to ordeine a paſtor not fit to teach / and bare reading off homilies is conuenient / off holy ſcriptures inſufficient to ſaue the people by / which are the cruches wherewith the D. would vphould this lame miniſtery: it followeth together with the ſhamefull abſurdities / off reading to be preaching / to be as good / yea better then preaching: that vnpreaching paſtors as the peſtilence off the church / owght to be throwen owt.

Now I retourne backe to the 7. Tract. off Miniſters apparell / Pag. 256. in 32. ſec. pag. 28.wherunto albeit I was determined (as may appeare) to reply: yet conſidering after / that this cawſe hath bene ſo fully debated / both by bookes in print / and other treatiſes written in the handes of as many as deſire after them: conſidering alſo that the D. ſecond anſwer (beſide falſe accuſations / as that men hauehave Pag. 256.learned off me, and my parteners to eſteme the ſurplis, &c. corrupt in them ſelues &c. open facing downe off thinges in knowledge off all men / as that none are hindred one iot from comming to the goſpell by preſcript apparell: bare affirmacions withowt proofe / as that no miniſter 257.making conſcience off wearing thapparell, will rather weare it moued by example off other, then by the law which commaundeth it: almoſt continuall 258.reaſoning not to the matter / which he cowardly diſſembleth / as that Prophetes (which were extraordinary miniſters) had an extraordinary apparell, which is not denied (which traine taken at 262.the beginning / is followed to the end): triumphes in his owne ſhame / … appeareth in the place off Salomons Eccleſiaſtes): I ſay beſide thes conſidering that he hath almoſt nothing at all? not before anſwered / and that he hath not fetched from any treaſury off good learning / but as taken vp by the highe way ſide… and conſidering that we hauehave this queſtion with very few (him / the Papiſtes / or thoſe which hauehave already caſt an eye vntounto the papiſtes / onelyonly excepted / with whom to trauaill in this point before their other gale be purged / were to heale the ſkinne / and leaue the bones ſtill broken) all thes things conſidered / with that that it may better appeare / we take not theſe thinges for the greateſt matter we cōplaine of: I thowght good to tread this treatiſe vnderunder my foot / and to ſaue ſome good howres / which might be loſt in vnripping this beggery. That I ſaie off hauing this queſtion with very few / him / &c. excepted / I meane in that where he ſaith the ſurplis, ſquare cap, and tippet be moſt conuenient, decent, and comely: pag. 25…. 285.others in whom there is any louelove off the truth / confeſſe it a weed vnmeet for a miniſter of the goſpell / which not able to root owt / they are for certeine cauſes content to beare with. And althowgh deſtitute off anſwer / he plie his matter with accuſatiōs of diſobediēce / and contēpt of magiſtrate: yet I doubt not but with all indifferent / our open / and ſimple profeſſion off the neceſſitie off higher powers / and off the honour / and humble ſubmiſſion to Her Maieſtie / and all magiſtrates vnderneth her / ether in doing thinges commaunded / or patiently ſuffring for that which we can not with good conſciēce doo / ſhall be ſufficient defenſe, eſpecially ſeing that euen in this matter off apparell / it is confeſſed / that obedience owght to be giuen / where the commaundement is with iniury to the miniſtery.

As for the D. ether error / or flattery / that in thinges indifferent commaunded by the Magiſtrate, we owght not to hauehave ſuch regard to the offenſe Diuiſ. 4. pag. 258. 1. Cor. 8. 7. 11. Rom. 14. 50. 20. Rom. 14. 15. 21.off the weake, but that if all ſhould be offended, that is to ſay periſh / and make ſhipwracke off conſcience (for that is the offenſe which S. Paul / and we after him ſpeake off) yet we owght to doo that which is commaunded: the Magiſtrate being therby lifted aboue the Lord / we vtterly condemne. Conſidering it being a flat commaundement off the holy goſt / that we abſteine from thinges in their owne nature indifferent / if the weake brother ſhould be offended: no autoritie ether off church / or commen wealth / can make yt voide. And where the magiſtrates commaunding / and owr obedience vntounto him / owght to be ſquared owt firſt by the louelove off God then off men / our brethren eſpecially: this new carpenter / as one that frameth his ſquire according to his tymber / and not his timber according to the ſquire / will make our obedience to the cyuill Magiſtrate / the rule off the louelove off God / and our brethren. So that in ſteed that he ſhould teach / that we may obey no further vntounto the magiſtrate / then the ſame wil agree with the glory off God / and ſaluation off our brethren: he teacheth that in thinges off their owne nature indifferent / we muſt hauehave no further regard / nether to ſaluacion off our bethren / nor to the glory off God (which in neglect of their ſaluacion is troden vnderunder food) then will agree with doing that the magiſtrate commaundeth. 1. Cor. 8. 12.But I am gone further then I thowght: ſeing there cā hardly be any ſo ſymple / which perceiueth not eaſely / both the fondnes / and abſurdity off his anſwers in this queſtion.

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Reply 23

p. CCCLXIIThe 5. Tract. and 6. vn the O.

p. CCCLXIIIOff preaching Myniſters.

The 5. Tract. and 6. vn the O.

Off preaching Myniſters.