A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1, Reply 24 (1 of 3)

A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1 · Reply 24 (1 of 3)

p. CCCCIIIIThe replie to the D. 8. Tract. off Archbiſhopes / and Biſhopes.

VntoUnto the firſte / and ſeconde diuiſion / being beſide the queſtion / I anſwer nothing. Before I come to the thirde / Math. 20. Luk. 22. In the 1. tract.Matt 20Luke 22forſomuche as the place off the Euangeliſtes / which is before / is generall / and ſtriketh at all the loftie / and ſwelling titles off the miniſtrie: I will ſet it here downe in the foreward off the reaſons / browghte againſte the names off Archbiſhopes / &c. as that which ſpeaking againſte all the ſmoky names / muſte nedes comprehende thes. In the D. anſwer therfore / wherby he goeth aboute to proue that thes wordes gratious; or bountifull Diuiſ. 1. Pag. 63. Luk. 22. 25Luke 22:25Lordes, make nothing againſte the great names / and magnifical titles off the miniſters: this is the firſte / that Saint Marke, and Muthewe hauehave no wordes bearing any ſuche ſenſe. Wherunto I anſwer / that as yt is a generall rule almoſte throwghowte the ſcripture / that repetitions are not withowt ſome vſury / and increaſe: ſo in p. CCCCVthe writinges of the Euāgeliſtes / yt is to be obſerued almoſt eueryevery where. And therfore yt owghte not to hauehave bene ſtrange / if other Euangeliſtes ſpeaking off the autoritie onelyonly / S. Luke added alſo touching the titles.

Secondly he anſwereth / this clawſe yt ſhall not be ſo vvith yovv, is not referred vntounto thoſe wordes (are called bountifull and benefyciall) but vntounto ambition, and tyrānical dominiō onelyonly. wherunto I anſwer / firſte that forſomuch as the things there affirmed of the Miniſters / and the worde off gracious Lordes, is as well affirmed foreign.off kinges / as the worde off bearinge dominion: therfore thoſe wordes (yt ſhall not be ſo vvith yovv) are as well referred vntounto the wordes (gracious lordes) as vntounto the word off domynion. Secondly yowr anſwer is contrarie to the authoritie yow hauehave alledged owte off Caluin. For if yt be true / that thes wordes bountifull benefactors, be all one with the wordes off Mathewe kinges exerciſe autoritie ouer them, and yowr ſelfe graunte Math. 20. 25.Matt 20:25that thes wordes (yt ſhall not be ſo vvith yovv) are referred vntounto the dominion / and exerciſe off autoritie: yt followeth that they muſte needes be verified alſo / off bountifull benefactors.

Thirdly he anſwereth / that this word bountifull is off no ſuch imperiouſnes, but it mighte well agree to the diſciples, and conſequently to miniſters. Wherunto I anſwer / that it is no worde off empire / but annexed vntounto yt: and therfore that which can not agree to the miniſters / whom God hath ſhut from any ſuche domynion. And that it is a worde off greate porte / and ſtatelines / appeareth forſomuche as not onelyonly the Egyptian kinges were ſo called: but as the D. him ſelfe confeſſeth / the Ebrewes did ſo call their princes. foreignNow he muſte vnderſtande / that that Hebrew worde which he hath ſet downe (bountifull) was nether gyuen vntounto the Hebrewe princes by flatterie off their ſubiectes / nor wronge from the ſubiectes by tyrannous ambition off their princes: but was a title gyuen vntounto them by the holy ghoſte. Therfore it is apparante / that S. Luke in thoſe wordes / ether reſpecting the couſtome off the prophane kings / or of the good princes of the Iewes in … p. CCCCXIpaſte: mente that ſtyle was proper to the cyuill magiſtrate / and to highe for the lowe countenance off a miniſter.

Againe this title off munificence / and bountifullnes as Ariſtotle ſheweth / is much more then liberall: and is not ſaid but of Ethick. 4thoſe / which beſides a great readines of mynde to gyue / hauehave alſo wherwith to beſtowe great gyftes / and that to many. So that yt is no meruaile / althowghe this title be giuen off S. Luke vntounto princes / as they which for the moſte parte / are onelyonly hable to vſe the bountie anſwerable vntounto that title. Againe where he ſaith / that thes wordes off S. Luke are to be expounded by S. Mathewe, and Marke, which hauehave for (bountifull) they that are greate: yt is manifeſte by his owne confeſſion / that this title off bountifull importeth ſome great pompe / and owtwarde ſtatelines. And therby foloweth that S. Mathewe / and Luke vſing thes three wordes (princes, great, kinges) to note one thing: yt muſte needes be that this worde bountifull, beinge as yow ſaie all one with (great) is forthwith all one with the other two wordes / princes, and kinges. Laſte off all / Caluin gyuing a reaſon off the ſignification off this worde / a litle after the wordes yow hauehave alledged / ſaith that theruppon yt commeth that men paye tributes and impoſtes, that princes maie hauehave to mainteine the porte, and magnifycence off their eſtate. Wherby yow mighte vnderſtande / that this word doth drawe withall a more glyttering / and glorius eſtate / then can agrree to the ſimplycitie off the miniſtrie off the goſpell.

Where alſo againſte me makinge two members of the ſentence off our S. Chriſte / one towchinge the autoritie / and domyniō of the cyuill magiſtrate / thother towching his title / ād name / the D. owte of Caluins wordes woulde proue / that they be all onethe muſte vnderſtand that Calu. wordes are not full enowghe to carie that meaning. For when he ſaithe / that S. Luke calleth kinges bountifull, in the ſame ſenſe that S. Mathevve ſaithe they exerciſe autoritie: his purpoſe is to ſhewe / that they perteine / and are referred both to the deſcription off his eſtate / and to put the differēce betweene hym / and the miniſter of the word. For otherwiſe they cā not be ſaide to he all one / ſeinge one of thē p. CCCCVIIis verified off the other: and Luke beſide this title of bountifull lordes, maketh mention off exerciſyng autoritie, and Domynion ouer them. Therfore if this be an abſurde ſaying (they which exerciſe autoritie ouer them, exerciſe autoritie ouer them): yt is clear that Caluins meaning is not / to confound one of thoſe with an other. and if yt ſhoulde / yet the Euangeliſtes vvordes vvill not ſuffer yt.

Where further he ſaith / that the name off graciouſe Lorde beinge a name off ſvperioritie, and reuerence, may therfore be gyuen to eccleſiaſtical perſons, as well as vntounto ciuill: I can ſee no corde off reaſon which bindeth thes together. For the name of Kinge / Prince / Duke / &c. names off ſuperioritie / and reuerence / by his reaſon maie be gyuē to eccleſiaſticall perſons: which him ſelfe denieth. Therfore the D. muſte ſeeke another diſtinction then this. Nay let him deuide tytles off dignitie when he will / making as he doth thes two off ſuperioritie / and reuerence one member: whatſoeuer he maketh the other / yt will fall within their compas. Furthermore the names off Erles / and Dukes are no more proper to cyuill magiſtrates in our countrie / then the name off gracious lorde. For as the one is a note off one lyfted vp into highe degree / ſo thother: and as the name off a lorde vvith vsus / is not the name off an office / but off honor onelie: ſo be the names off Dukes / and Erles. For men being borne dukes / and Erles are not therfore borne magiſtrates: which notwithſtanding they ſhoulde be / if the names off Dukes / and Erles were proper to the ciuill magiſtrate.

In the name off Archbiſhop / the firſte parte which ſignifieth a prince / is proper to the ciuill magiſtrate / and can not withowt robberie / be tranſlated from him vntounto Eccleſiaſticall perſons. Which is to be ſhewed firſte in that our Sauiour Chriſte / and the Apoſtles when ſoeuer they ſpeake off the ſuperioritie off the miniſters off the newe Teſtamente / doo ſo carefully auoide that worde / with all thoſe which fall from yt / or are deriued of yt. Then in that Ariſtor. ſaith / the vvorde domynion, doth ſignifie an imperious rule, as Beza obſerueth: where he ſheweth that foreign. vponupon thē 13. off the Actes.it can not agree to the miniſters of the goſpell. Thirdly euē by the p. CCCCVIIID. owne confeſſion in this place. For the greke worde ſignifinge a prince / which name he confeſſeth proper vntounto the ciuill magiſtrate: foreign.yt muſte folowe that the name off Archbiſhop / which is aſmuche as prince off biſhopes / breaketh vponupon the poſſeſſion off the magiſtrate. wherupon foloweth that that name is not onelie iniurious / and tyrannicall in reſpecte off the order off miniſters / while it chalengeth princedome ouer them: but preſumptuous againſte the magiſtrate / whyleſte yt pulleth that name vntounto yt / which is proper to him. So that if it were lawfull for him / to exerciſe any ſuperioritie ouer his felowe myniſters: yet yt owghte to be by an other title. My maior which yow ſaie is ouerthrowne, hath not ſo muche as felte any attempte. for the ouerthowe therof were to proue / that the names proper to the cyuill magiſtrate / belong vntounto one miniſter ouer another: which is not once endeuored. The minor (which is that a cyuil magiſtrate is ſeuered from the eccleſiaſticall perſons by lofty titles) hath nothing againſte yt / but this that gracious lorde is commen to both ciuill magiſtrate, and eccleſiaſticall perſon: which is taken for graunted / where yt owghte to be proued. for all thowghe he ſaie / I maie ſee it: yet he ſheweth forth no lighte off reaſon to make me ſee yt by. as for that he alledgeth / that in ſome places he is called Dominus, which hath but ſmall lordſhip: I hauehave anſwered yt in another place / where I ſhew that lord with vsus / can not be ſo taken / vnles he meane a Chriſtmas lord / our lorde off miſrule. Nowe both the propoſitions ſtanding / the concluſion is moſte treue. When as alſo the tytle off Grace, is gyuen to eccleſiaſticall perſons / which is gyuen vntounto the prince / and doth not agree vntounto any vnderunder the degree off a Duke / the nexte vntounto the prince: I vvoulde gladly know vvhat difference there is / betwene the titles off eccleſiaſticall perſons / and the ciuill magiſtrate / ſo great that he muſte needes be very blind which doth not ſee yt. And where the D. ſaithe / that eccleſiaſticall perſons may ſhewe forthe the countenance of their degree: he nether ſheweth what that is / and muſte be belieued off his bare worde / for there is no profe at all. But off the pompe in other thinges / there ſhall be (God willing) ſpoken off afterward.

Wheer the D. ſaith yt is the poincte off a Sophiſter to ſtriue for p. CCCCIXDiuiſ 3. pag 300.names off thynges, where there is agreement off the matter: vntounto the reaſons / and examples I alledged to proue / that the very bare in 5. diui. Pag. 32.vſe off certeine names is vnlawfull / althowgh the thinges noted by them be not / he anſwereth not a worde. And if thoſe exāples be not ſtronge enowgh / to obteine that at his handes: I would knowe of him which maketh ſo ſmal accounte off names / vvhether a man which confeſſeth him ſelfe mortall / may be called by the name of Iehouah / &c. The anſwer to the firſt propoſitiō is inſufficient. I could take exceptions to the examples here aliedged / as that thes wordes I hauehave ſaid yovv are Gods, are not gyuen vntounto magiſtrates that they ſhould be ſaluted by the name off God / or that one king ſhould be called the God of England / another the god off France (vvhichwhich vvere not tollerable / and approching to the pride off Antiochus) but to this end that the autoritie vvhichwhich they exerciſe according vntounto God / might be acknowledged in them: yet I anſwer generally / that thoſe ſpeaches be therfore lawfull / becauſe the Lorde in his ſcripture hath communicated them vvith men. vvherfore if the D. vvill proue that the tytle off archbiſhop / proper vntounto our Sauiour Chriſte / may 1. Pet. 5. 41 Pet 5:4be imparted vntounto a mortall man: he muſte ſhewe that as the name off God / light off the vvorld / &c. is gyuen vntounto men in the ſcripture: ſo is alſo the name of Archbiſhope. vvhichwhich vvhen he ſhall neuer doo / yt ys in vaine to pretend thes examples. For as yt had bene an intollerable arrogancie for any man / to hauehave ether taken / or gyuen the autoritie off God vntounto the ſonnes off Adam / onles he him ſelf had ſo honored them: ſo is yt full off preſumption / ether to gyue or take this ſo highe a name / vvhichwhich being the ſeuerall off our Sauiour Chriſt / was neuer by no vvorde off his / laide owte in commen vntounto any ſymple man vvhatſoeuer.

The D. anſwer vntounto the ſecond propoſition by diſtinction (the ignorance vvheroff he doth ſo often times reproche me vvith) is full of diſorder / and hath nothing ſound. firſt yt faulteth in that yt rendeth a ſunder thinges vvhichwhich can not be ſeperated / and that two waies: one in ſeparating the gouernement of the church by paſtors / doctors / &c. from the ſpirituall. For vvhen the eccleſiaſticall miniſtrie hath reſpecte to the ſowle / and conſcience: when yt is called the myniſterie off the ſpirite / ſpirituall: when they which p. CCCCX13. Ebr. 17… yt / are called myniſters in the kingdom off heaue… when the owtward preaching / excommunication / and other diſcipline 1. Cor. 3. 8 1. Cor. 12. 1. 5. Mat. 11. 11 2. Cor. 10. 3. 4.1 Cor 3:81 Cor 12:11 Cor 12:5Matt 11:112 Cor 10:32 Cor 10:4which they vſe / be ſpirituall: this ſeperation off the owtward gouernement off the church from the ſpirituall / and making off them oppoſite members / doth not diſtinguiſhe but deſtroie the gouernement off Chriſte. Thother is that where our Sauiour Chriſt gouerneth his church ſpiritually / both with his ſpirite / and word: he placeth his ſprituall gouernement / onelyonly in that he toucheth the heartes off his electe, by his ſpirite. And where our Sau. Chriſte vſeth the externall miniſterie off men / not onelyonly in diſtribution off his word / but alſo off his ſpirite: the D. maketh thexternall miniſtrie / to ſerue onelyonly for the diſpenſation off the word / and not off the ſpirite. wheras he owghte to hauehave conſidered / that as Chriſt him ſelfe ſitting in heauen / nowe teacheth by the mouth of the miniſtrie: ſo he giueth alſo his ſpirite by the ſame miniſtrie / in which reſpecte yt is called the miniſtrie off the ſpirite. Seing therfore the externall gouernement off Chriſt in his church is ſpirituall / and euen that inward towch off the ſpirite of God / is not ordinarily / but by the ſubordinate miniſteries which God hath appoincted in his church: yt is manifeſt that that diſtinction / that Chriſt hath no ſubordinate paſtors vnderneath him in the ſpirituall gouernement, is falſe.

And if no man ſhould touche yt / the D. hath gyuen it the fall him ſelfe. For where he ſaith / Chriſt in the ſpirituall regiment is the onelyonly Paſtor: by and by he ſaith / he is the onelyonly archbiſhop in ſpirituall gouernement. Which if yt be true: then hath he alſo in the ſpirituall gouernement / other biſhops vnderneath him. for he can not be ſaide arche or cheife biſhop / but in reſpecte off other biſhops vnderunder him. And if this diſtinction were not falſe: yet is it here idle / and owt off place. for S. Peter owt off whom I cited this teſtymony / appropriateth to our S. Chriſt the name of archbiſhop / in reſpecte off the externall regimēt: that is to ſay / in reſpecte that eueryevery biſhop had a particular charge of miniſtrie vnderneath him. And where the D. faith / there are other archbiſhops beſide Chriſte in the externall gouernement: ſeing he can not denie / but the autoritie off Chriſt in eueryevery prouince / is greater then off his Archbiſhop: I would gledly know off hym / when he hath gyuen the name off p. CCCCXIArchbiſhop to another / what name he leaueth vntounto our Sauiour Chriſt / wherby that exellencie / and preheminence off autoritie / may be noted. if yt fall owt that there is no name aboue an archbiſhop: I ſee not how he muſt not be conſtrained / to confeſſe that that name is exceſſiue / which being the greateſt that can be in eccleſiaſticall gouernement / is giuen to him that hath not greateſt autoritie.

The other faulte of this diſtinction is / that yt confoundeth / and ſhuffleth together the autoritie of our Sauiour Chriſt / as he is the ſonne off God onelyonly before all worldes / coequall with his father: vvith that vvhichwhich he hath gyuen off his father / and vvhichwhich he exerciſeth in reſpecte he is mediator betwene God and vsus. For in the gouernement off the church / and ſuperiorytie ouer the officers off it / our Sauiour Chriſt himſelfe hath a ſuperior / 1. Cor. 4▪ 23. 1. Cor. 11. 3. 1. Cor. 15. 27. 28.1 Cor 4:231 Cor 11:31 Cor 15:271 Cor 15:28vvhichwhich is his father: but in the gouernement off kingdomes / and other cōmen wealthes / and in the ſuperiority which he hath ouer kinges / and iudges / he hath no ſuperior / but immediate autoritie vvith his father. Therfore the mouldinge vpp off the two eſtates / and gouernementes together / is to lay the foundations off many errors. Laſt of all admitting this diſtinctiō / how cometh yt to paſſe that this poincte of his / that there are manie archbiſhops in the owtward regiment off the church, being that which is denied: is lefte vvithowt any aſſiſtance off reaſon out off the ſcripture?

Here remaineth onelyonly to proue / the title Head off the church / to belonge onelyonly to our Sauiour Chriſte. I muſte therfore deſyre 4. Diuiſ. 301.the reader to tourne vntounto the 6. diuiſ. pag. 181. where the D. confeſſeth as much as I / that Chriſte is onelyonly the head of the church. If Chriſte be onelyonly head: then that I ſet downe / that the cyuill magiſtrate is head of the cōmonwealthe / and not of the church / ſtandeth. But if the magiſtrate be head off the church: then Chriſte is not onelie. Howbeit hauing for feare off the owtcry off all / made a litle curteſie vntounto the truthe: he forth with lifteth vp his heele againſte it / and will hauehave the ciuill magiſtrate head alſo off the church / wherupon muſte followe infynite abſurdities. firſte the doctrine off the Apoſtle is by this means cleane ouerthrowē / Epheſ. 1. 21. 1. Col. 18.Eph 1:21Eph 1:1which ſheweth that this tytle Head of the church / was gyuen to our Sau. Chriſte / to lifte him aboue all powres / rules / and domyons p. CCCCXII/ ether in heauen / or earth. Where if this title belonge alſo vntounto the cyuill magiſtrate: then yt ys manifeſte / that there is a powre in earth / vvherunto our Sauiour Chriſte is not in this pointe ſuperior. And by the ſame reaſon that he maie gyue the cyuill magiſtrate this title / he maye gyue him alſo that he ys the fyrſte begotten of all creatures / the fyrſte begotten off the dead / yea the redemer of his people which he gouerneth. For theſe all are a like gyuen vntounto hym / as dignities wherby he ys lyfted vp aboue all creatures. And beſide that the whole argumente off the Apoſtle in both places / lead to ſhewe that this tytle Head off the church / can not be ſaide of any creature: yt ys confirmed by the demonſtratiue article / wherwith the Hebrewes eſyecially / whom Saint Paul folowed / vſe to tie that vvhichwhich is verified off one / vntounto hym ſelfe alone. For he ſaith he is the head: as if he ſhould ſaie / he foreign.and none other is the heade of the church. Againe if the church be the bodie of Chriſte / ād of the cyuill magiſtrate / yt ſhall hauehave two heades: which being monſterous / is to the great diſhonor off Chriſte / and his church. So alſo ſhoulde come to paſſe / that the church hauing the magiſtrate for head / is accōpliſhed / and made a perfecte man without Chriſte: ſo that the knittinge of our Sauiour Chriſte / ſhould not be an accompliſhmente off that which lacked / but an addition off that which is to much. And if the churche be planted in a popular eſtate: then forſomuch as all gouerne in commen / and all hauehave autoritie / all ſhall be head there / and no body at all: vvhichwhich is another monſter.

Now yf vve conſider the cawſes / why our Sauiour Chriſte ys called the head of his church (which are that as the head is the higheſte parte in a man / aboue which ther is none allwaies ioyned with the body: ſo he ys the cheifeſt / and higheſt in his churche / inſeperably knitte with yt / and that as the head gyueth ſenſe / and mouing vntounto all the bodye: ſo he quickneth / and to gether with vnderſtanding of heauenly thinges / gyueth ſtrenght to walke therin) I ſay when thes be the cauſes: yt ys manifeſte / thes thinges nor no one off them / ether agreing / or hauing any poſſibilitie to agree with any creature in heauen / or earth / ether towards the whole church / or towardes any partycular aſſembly: p. CCCCXIIIthat the name off the Head of the church / can not be without great violence / gyuen vntounto any ſymple creature. And yff yt be ſaied that the cyuill magiſtrate is a ſubordinate / and myniſteriall head off the church / as the magiſtrate beinge head off the commen wealthe / hath other which maye be called vnderunder heades beneath hym: he muſte vnderſtand that thoſe heades are appoincted / becawſe the cheife magiſtrate can not be preſente with the whole body off his people / nor in his owne perſon performe the office of a head vntounto them all. But foraſmuche as Chriſte is neuer ſeuered from his body / nor from any parte off yt / and is able / and doth performe that wherfore he is called head / vntounto all his churche: yt owghte not to ſeme ſtrange that there may be a ſubordinate head in the commen wealth / where there can be none in the church.

And as yt hath certaine grounde in the ſcripture / that this tytle of head of the church / is to highe to be gyuen vntounto any man: ſo hath yt bene confirmed from time to tyme / by writers both olde / and newe / which hauehave had the honor off Chriſte in any conuenient eſtimation. Let vsus therfore ſee vvhether this ialouſie ouer the title of head of the church / not onelyonly in reſpecte off the whole / but in reſpecte alſo off a particular congregation / hauehave De ſimplicitate praelat. Apol. 2. part. 2. c. diuiſ. 1. Li. 1. contra liter. Petil. c. 5: Li. 3 contra liter. Pet. c. 42.their approbation. Cyprian ſaith / there is but one head off the church. The biſhop off Salſburie affirmeth the ſame. Auguſtine proueth that the miniſter which baptiſeth / can not be the head off him which is baptized / becauſe Chriſte is the head off the vvhole church. And in another place / that Paule coulde not be head of the churches which he planted / becawſe Chriſte is head off the vvhole body. which reaſon ſhould be nothing worthe / if ether Saint Paule / or any other miniſter mighte be a miniſtery all head off the church vnderunder Chriſte. And if the name of miniſteriall head off the churches which Paule planted / can not be gyuen vntounto him which was a gouernour nexte / and immediatly vnderunder Chriſte in that ſame kinde off gouernment in the which our Sauiour Chriſte is head / that is to ſay ſpirituall / no not then when there was no Chriſtian magiſtrate to make chalenge vntounto that title / and to bring yt into dowbte / whether yt belonged vntounto S. p. CCCCXIIIIPaule / or to him: yt can not be that the magiſtrate may take vntounto him that title / whoſe gouernmente doth not approche ſo nere vntounto our Sauiour Chriſtes / as he is head off the church.

And as they hauehave taken awaye this tytle from the miniſters ouer their flockes: ſo hauehave they from Emperours / and princes in regard off their ſubiectes. Ambroſe ſaith / yt ys the greateſt honor the Emperour can hauehave, to be called ſonne off the church: Epiſt. 32.and in the ſame Epiſtle / a good Emperour is vvithin, not aboue the chutch. Caluin teacheth that there is but one onelyonly head Inſtitut. li. 4. ca. 6. ſect. 9.of the church, vvhichwhich is Chriſte: that the name doth onelyonly agree to him, that in that name he can hauehave no ſubſtitute vponupon earth. Where yf yt be ſaide / that he mente that off the Pope ouer all churches: althowgh the diſputation be directed againſte the Pope: yet his reaſons are generall / and proue that no man maie vſurpe that tytle. But to cleare that matter / in an other place he vponupon the 7. ca. off Amos.ſheweth / that it is to muche to attribute vntounto a Kinge the name of the head of the church: and that they are blaſphemous, that gyue hym yt Nowe where he ſaith here / and repeteth p 301. that in reſpecte off the ſupreme autoritie which god hath gyuen vntounto the magiſtrate, he may be called the head off the church: the ſupreme authoritie ouer the church / being onelyonly gyuen vntounto Chriſte: yt muſte folow that this name onelyonly belongeth to him.

Where partly in this diuiſ. but more fully pag 301. he ſaith / althowgh in reſpecte of life, and nutriment gyuen, and ſpirituall bleſsinges powred into the body off the church, our Sauiour Chriſte is onelyonly head: yet towching the externall ſocietie, and owtward gouernement, the magiſtrate Pigh. hierar. eccleſiaſt li. 3. ca. 4. Harding in the def of the Apol. part 2 o… diu. 2▪ Diuiſ 3. pag 300.alſo may be head off the church: yt is firſt to be noted from whom this prouiſion was browghte hym. For as Harding borowed yt off Pighius: ſo the D. pourueiers had it from Harding / or frō both. For to ouerthrowe this doctrine that Chriſte alone is head of his church / this diſtinction is browghte / that according to the inward influence off grace / Chriſte onelyonly is head: but according to the owtward gouernement / the being of head is commen with him to others. For anſwer wherunto / I referre my ſelf in parte to that I hauehave written before / off the abſurde diſtinction betwene the gouernement off the churche by the myniſterie off men / inſtituted p. CCCCXVoff our Sau. Chriſt / and his ſpirituall gouernmente. For that if there be no head but Chriſte / in reſpecte of the ſpiritual gouernemente: there is no head but he in reſpecte of the worde / ſacramentes / and diſcipline adminiſtred by thoſe whom he hath appoincted. foraſmuch as that is alſo his ſpirituall gouernmente. And euen in the owtward ſocietie / and aſſemblies off the church / where one or two are gathered in his name / ether for hearing off the word / or for praier / or any other church exerciſe / our Sauiour Chriſte being in the myddeſte off them as mediatour / muſte needes be there as head: and if he be there not idle / but doinge the office off the head fully: yt followeth that euen in the owtwarde ſocietie / and meetinges off the church / no ſymple man can be called the head off it. Seing that our Sauiour Chriſte doinge the whole office off the head him ſelfe alone: leaueth nothing to men / by doing wheroff they maie obtaine that tytle. Wherfore whoſoeuer in ſeeking to profite the churche according to his calling / doth any thing to the preſeruation off this body: he doth yt as an eye / an arme / an eare / or as ſome other member / and not a… head off it.

Now to his diſtinction owt off Andreas. who after he confeſſeth that Chriſte is onelyonly head / as he gouerneth the church with Pag. 18….his ſpirite: addeth / that for ſomuche as the church off God being viſible / is not onelyonly ruled by the word / but by ſword off the magiſtrate / that there be ſo many heades off the church / as rulers off countries. Where firſte let it be obſerued / that he quoteth no place: peraduenture leſte ſome ether wordes / or circumſtance might gyue the anſwer. Then that he enhaunceth his credite whith the tytle off a learned man: where for any thing I hauehave redd (and I hauehave redd his defence off the real preſence againſt Beza) yt might well hauehave bene lefte owte. Howbeit both for his corruption in iudgement / and otherwiſe: I refer the learned reader / to that Vrſinus a learned man hath written againſt him. Wherby he may vnderſtand howe this commendation was without diſcretion / onelyonly to ſerue the preſent tourne. And I beſeche yow Sir / who is this Vergerius whom Andreas reprehendeth: which you hauehave ſo nakedly ſet downe / clothing Andrue ſo gorgiouſly? This is is good reader Petrus Paulus Vergerius / with whome whether the other p. CCCCXVIbe once to be compared / ether for ſownd knowledge / or innocencie off lyfe / I leaue to their iudgemēt which hauehave redd / and knowē them both: and withall whether if an argumēt of autoritie be off ſuch weighte as the D. will hauehave yt / he hath by this teſtimony made a hole in his owne cawſe.

In the diſtinction yt ys firſte to be obſerued / that as Andrue diſſenteth from the truth: ſo he doth from Pighius / Harding / and the D. for when he oppoſeth the gouernement by the ſword / vntounto that off the worde / making yt off the word a peece off the ſpirituall gouernement / and then ſaith that there be diuers heades off the church in reſpecte off gouernement by the ſword: he gyueth to vnderſtand that his Iudgement is / that in reſpecte off the eccleſiaſticall myniſterie / our Sauiour Chriſt is onelyonly head. Which may yet better appeare in that he ſaith / ther are ſo many heades / as rulers of coūtries: and ſaith not ſo many heades as biſhops off churches. And if this be not his minde: yt will ſtand the D. vppon / to bringe owt other wordes to declare yt. Now Pigh. Hard. and the D. vppon the bare word off Athanaſius / will hauehave heades in reſpecte off the eccleſiaſticall gouernement: pa 30….they one ouer all churches / he one in eueryevery dioceſe. Wherin the reader may ſee / that yf this rottē ſeede take rooting / howſoeuer the Princes honor be pretended / the fruiete perteineth alſo to the biſhops. In which diſtinctiō off biſhop head off his / but not of the whole church: albeit the D. woulde gladly ſeme to ſlip from the Papiſtes / yet they will not ſo parte with him. For beſide that I hauehave ſhewed how the godly learned / vppon that our Sau. Chriſt is head / cōclude as well againſt heades of particular churches / as againſt one head off the vniuerſall: this Iudgement off his is the deuinitie off two Popiſhe Councels / Conſtance / and Baſile. Where the Biſhops (thoſe eſpecially before partners in this robberie off our Sauiour Chriſt with the man off Rome / and namely he off Antyoche) diſpleaſed that the Pope alone ſhould hauehave all that boutye: to make Roume for them ſelues / ſhut his headſhip vp in the compas off his owne countrie: opening their eyes to ſo muche trwth / as ſerued their owne tournes.

But to come to the poinct off Andrues diſtinction: let yt be conſydered fyrſt that our Sauiour Chriſt ys in one reſpecte creator p. CCCCXVII/ and preſeruer of man kinde / in another redemer / ād vpholdder of his church. For he created once / ād preſerueth daily as God coequal with his Father / ād holy ſpirite: but he both redemed once / and daily gathereth his church / as mediatour of god and man. in which reſpect euen yet in his infynite glory he enioyeth / he is / an ſhall be vnderunder his father / and holy goſte: vntill hauing put downe all rule / and power / he ſhall render the kingdome to his 1. Cor. 1…, 24.1 Cor 1:24Father. Secondly yt ys to be conſidered / that as our Sauiour Chriſte doth thes in dyners reſpectes: ſo he doth them by diuers means. To wyt that as God ſymply he hath ordeined certein means / to ſerue his prouidence in the perſeruation of man kynde: ſo as God and man / he hathe ordeined other certein / for the gathering / and keping off his church. Thes groundes laied / yt is to be conſidered / whether the exerciſe off the ſworde by the magiſtrate / come from our Sauiour Chriſte preſeruer off man kinde / wherin he is coequal to his father: or as mediatour off his church / wherin he is inferiour. Where foraſmuche as our Sauiour Chriſtes kingdome was not of this world / and that againſt horrible diſorders in his church / puniſhable by the ſworde / he did not (one extraordinary whipping excepted) draw yt: and conſidering that this lawfull ordinance off God / is not onelyonly in the churche / but withowt: yt is manifeſt that our Sauiour Chriſt in reſpecte off his mediatourſhip towardes vsus / exerciſeth not the cyuill ſword. For in that he ſaid his kingdome was not off this worlde / he made an oppoſition not vntounto the wicked off the worlde / as other ſome times but vntounto Ceſars autoritie / which was the ordinance of God / wherto he was falſly charged to hauehave made claime. And in that he drewe not the ſword againſte opē diſorders / it argueth that that was without the compas off his vocation: otherwiſe he would neuer hauehave ſuffred the glory of God / to hauehave bene troden vnderunder feet. And in that the autoritie off the ſword in heathen princes (althowgh not a like vſed) is the ſame ordinance off God that in Chriſtian: thone proceding off God immediatly / and not from our Gauiour Chriſt as mediatour / thother doth likewiſe. But why ſhould wee wraſtle further in this poincte with Andrue? ſeing the D. which buildeth of his autoritie / in cō feſſing that the magiſtrate is ordeined off God immediatly / ſtandeth p. CCCCXVIIIwith vsus that he ys not ordeined off our Sauiour Chriſte / in reſpect that he is mediatour betwene God and vsus. heruppon followeth that the office off the cyuill magiſtrate is properly one off thoſe means / which ſerueth the Lordes prouidence in the preſeruation off man kind. Now yf the cyuill magiſtrate ſhould be the head off the church: he muſt be an vnderunder / and ſubordinat head off Chriſt. Conſydering that the lorde hath committed the gouernement off the church / vntounto our Sauiour Chriſte / and that otherwiſe there ſhould be two heades off yt / wheroff one were not vnderunder another: which is abſurd. But he is not an vnderunder / and ſubordinate head off Chriſte / conſydering that his autoritie cometh from God ſymply / and immediatly / euen as our Sauiour Chriſtes: and therfore not the head off the church.

To this diſputation perteineth that which the D. els where Diuiſ. 19. Pag. 310. Pag. 630.in ſynuateth / off the Magiſtrate compriſed, albeit not expreſſed in the 12. 1. Corinth. vnderunder the word gouernementes: but in an other treatiſe more plainly. in the fyrſt place to hale in the Archbiſhop / in the ſecond to thruſt out the elders: which notwithſtanding is eaſely refuted by the ſame place. for if the cyuill magiſtrate ſhoulde be comprehēded vnderunder that worde off gouernement / and be one off the officers off the church there mencioned: yt ſhould followe that he ſhould be an vnderunder officer / not onelyonly to the Apoſtles / but alſo to Prophetes / and Doctors. For S. Paule putteth thes as the principalleſt myniſteries in the church: as the degres off firſt, ſecond, and third declare. But I thincke the D. will not make him vnderunder officer to all thes: therfore he is not cōprehended vnderunder that diuiſion / but is of an other ſorte off officers. Secondly yt ſhould follow / that Chriſtian magiſtrates were in that tyme / yt being graunted that the offices there reckned / were already in the church. But the D. ſaith / that there were then no Chriſtian magiſtrates: yt foloweth therfore by his owne wordes / that the magiſtrate could nether be expreſſed / nor conteined in thoſe wordes. yf yt be ſaid that althowgh the D. ſay there were none / yet I / and the trwth yt ſelfe ſaie otherwiſe: I anſwer that all the gyftes / and offices there reckned / were not onelyonly then / but were then moſt plentifull. Conſidering therfore that the Chriſtian magiſtrate / was then a gifte more rare then at other times after: p. CCCCXIXyt can not be that he is comprehended vnderunder that wordes Vppon all which yt falleth / that the Magiſtrate is head off the church as Andreas ſaith / in reſpect off that he exerciſeth the ſword. Likewiſe it goeth to ground which the D. putteth / that by the ſame reaſon the magiſtrate is head off the commē wealth next vnderunder God, he may be alſo head off the church. Which is a groſſe peticion of the principle / being nothing but the contrarie off that I ſet downe.

That owte off Chryſoſtome / that certeine weomen were head off the churche off Philippos, will not ſerue: conſidering that he ſpeaketh not off any cheifdome in powre / or autoritie / but off excellencie foreignin godlines / and zeale. And the greek word he vſeth ſignifying alſo a ſumme / nedeth not to be taken in ſignification off head: but that Chryſoſt. meaninge was / that in thoſe weomē / there was as it were a ſumme off the church / in whoſe godly vertues / a man might beholde the eſtate off the whole. Nay yt can not but with great violence there ſignifie a head / for then he ſhould hauehave ſaid / they were heades of the church: and not head. And if it ſhoulde: yet yt muſte be vnderſtanded / that head there is to ſay the cheife off the weomen off that church: which is nothing to purpoſe. for I am ſure yt was not Chryſoſt. minde to preferre them to the Biſhopes / &c. The cauill alſo that the magiſtrate being but a member off the church, is not therby barred from being head: is vnworthy anſwer / In def. Apol. part. 6▪ cap. 4. Diuiſ. 2. Daniel 10. 13. Coloſ. 1. 16.Dan 10:13Col 1:16ſeing yt is manifeſt off what members I ſpake: and the Biſhop off Salſbury ſpeaketh euen in the ſame wordes.

Yf yt be ſaid / that the magiſtrates honour ys touched here: I anſwer that then the Angels them ſelues are diſhonoured / which hauing gouernement of kingdomes / and nations / add alſo of the churches which they ſerue: hauehave not / nor owght as I hauehave ſhewed to hauehave / the title off head off the churche. Nay thoſe which goe abowte to gratifie Princes / with the ſpoile off our Sauiour Chriſte / are found diſhonorers of them: as thoſe which leaue thē no place in the church of Chriſte. for if the magiſtrate be head of the church of Chriſte / which is within his domyniō thē he is none of yt. For all that church maketh the bodie of Chriſte / and eueryevery one of the church fulfilleth the place of one member of the body. So that he that is not of the body / can hauehave no place in the p. CCCCXXchurch. yf yt be further ſaid that he hath iniury / conſidering that he bringeth ſuch ſingular comforte / and profit vntounto the church / eſtabliſhing the purenes off religion / ouerthrowing the corruptions / repreſſing ſinne / crowning vertue: beſide the weight of glory which attendeth for good Princes in the life to come / and that they are honoured with moſt honorable names / which owght more then contente the moſte excellent ſeruantes off God / which are but ſymple creatures: yt muſte be alſo conſidered / that as the godly magiſtrate being head of the common wealth / bringeth ſingular commoditie vntounto the church: ſo doo the godly paſtors / which be the church officers / bringe ſingular fruict vntounto the commē wealth. For whileſt they conquere by the word / riote / adultry / couetouſnes / pride / idlenes / &c. wherby diſeaſes / beggery / tranſlations off inheritance from the right heires / needles dearthes / ſeditions / rebellions (whereoff eueryevery one is an engin able to pull downe the commen wealth): they may be well called the horſe / and chariot of the cōmen wealth. But yet as the paſtors can not therfore be ſaied / officers of the commē wealth: no more can the magiſtrate / which by vertwe of his ciuill office giueth ſingular aſſiſtance vntounto the churche / be called properly the churche officer. Yf (as I ſee) it like ſome to call magiſtrates a kind of officers in the churche / becauſe they being members / by publike calling Bez. confeſſ ca. 5. artic. 23.procure the quiet theroff: they which are diſpoſed may ſo ſpeak / I will not ſtriue. But why I eſteme the title off head of the church / not to agree vntounto any ſimple creature / etherin heauen / or earth / I hauehave ſhewed my reaſons / let the church Iudge.

The queſtiō is not whether the name of Archbiſhop is / but whether it owght to be cōtinued: and if the cōtinuance of it in our Diuiſ. 5. pag. 302.church / draw ſuch credit / the putting downe of it in all other churches throwghowt Chriſtēdome / muſt needes bring great preiudice. But it is lawfull: therin is the queſtion. Which althowgh he hath oftē affirmed: yet we are come to an end of the deciſiō of this queſtion by the ſcriptures / and no word browght to confirme it. Wherin ether he is litle beholding to his cawſe / which will miniſter him nothing to ſay: or his cawſe to him which leaueth it thus deſtitute. For althowgh the reaſons againſt yt ſhould be inſufficiēt: yet if he would hauehave this title continew in the church / he p. CCCCXXIſhould hauehave by ſhewing the lawfullnes of it owt of the word / both perſwaded thoſe which hauehave an euill opinion of it / and confirmed them which wauer. For the ſixt diuiſ. let the Iudgement be the readers. Before I come vntounto the 7. I will for the cauſe alledged in the beginning off this treatiſe / take in here the reſidue off the 20. off S. Math.

Yowr tranſ…ation the kinges off the Gentils, wherby yow would pag 62.prone that he putteth not a difference betwene the cyuil / and eccleſiaſticall power / is faulty: as that which withowt neceſſity / goeth from the proper ſignification off the word. For it ſignifieth foreign Gen. 10. 31. 32. Deut. 32. 28. Pſal. 43. 1. Math. 28. 19. Act. 10. 35. Luk. 7. 5.Gen 10:31Gen 10:32Deut 32:28Ps 43:1Matt 28:19Acts 10:35Luke 7:5naturally / not the Gentils / but ſymply any nation / in which ſignification yt is taken oft in the ould / and new teſtament: and not onelyonly when the Iſraelites are ioyned together with other nations / but euen when the holy goſt ſpeaketh of the Iewes a part / he calleth them by the ſame word here vſed. Therfore it appeareth / that there is nether any ſuch meaning of the Euāgeliſtes: and if there were / yet he gaineth nothing. For it is eaſy to anſwer that he therfore maketh mention off the Princes off the Gentils / foraſmuch as there was no King / nor ſoueraigne ciuill principality amongeſt the Iewes. Wheruppon our Sauiour was cōpelled / to take example off princely autority from the Gentils. And if there were any ſmall fragments of cyuill gouernement in the Iewes handes: yt was the high prieſtes / and other eccleſiaſticall perſons. Which beſide that yt was baſtard / and degenerate from the inſtitution off God: it was both more ambitiouſly ſowght (as may appeare by the eccleſiaſticall ſtories) and more tyranically adminiſtred / as appeareth in ſcriptures / then any the moſt diſordered Act. 4. 3. & 5. 1. &c. & 9. 1. 2.Acts 4:3Acts 5:1gouernement amongeſt the Heathen. So that if our Sauiour would hauehave ſet forth a patron off ambition / and tyranny in gouernment: he needed not hauehave ſowght it amongeſt the Gentils / when he had it at home.

Yt may be ſaied further / that he taking his example off the cyuill dominion off the Gentills / would therby pull owt off the peoples heades / that fond opinion amongeſt them / and the reſt off Iewes: that they at the comming off the Meſſias / ſhould be Emperours off all the world / and all the Gentills be their ſubiectes. Eſpecially conſidering this petition off the ſonnes off p. CCCCXXIIZebedy / was grounded off that idlephanſie. And if neede required / it were not hard to bring examples off diuers Kinges / and principall magiſtrates amongeſt the Gentils / which both came vntounto their gouernement modeſtly / and vſed yt with all equitie / and commoditie off the ſubiectes; as off the contrary part diuers off the Kinges amongeſt the Iewes / whoſe entry hath not bene ſo honeſt / nor gouernement ſo eaſy. vponupon which conſyderations it may appeare / that there was an other reaſon off making mention of the Gentils Math. 6. then in this place. Laſt off all / there is nothing anſwered to the example off our Sauiour Chriſt / which doth manifeſtly ouethrow the D. interpretatiō. For whē as it is certeine / that examples are browght to explane the rules which goe before / and in the example our Sauiour Chriſt oppoſeth myniſtring vntounto others / to this to be miniſtred vntounto by others: it muſt needes follow / that the place which went before / muſt be vnderſtanded ſimply of domynion / and not tyrannicall domynion. for if the example had bene ſitting vntounto M. D. meaning: he ſhould hauehave ſaied / as I came not tirannically to be miniſtred vntounto / or ambitiouſly to deſyre it / but modeſtly to rule.

The diſtinction alſo of the Magiſtrate / and off the miniſter / wherin the weight of this cawſe lieth / is not towched. This diuiſion off domynion, is altogether idle. for it is plaine that when I ſay the cyuill Magiſtrate is ſeuered by bearing domynion / from the eccleſiaſticall perſon: I ment lawfull. and when as I deny / that the eccleſiaſticall perſon can exerciſe any domynion at all: what place is there left to this diuiſion? for what dominion ſoeuer he had proued / to hauehave bene lawfull for an eccleſiaſticall perſon / had bene ſuffycient ouerthrow of that I ſet downe. And as the diuiſion is ſuperfluous: ſo yt is vnſkilfull. For the two firſt partes / the rule with oppreſsion, and the rule deſcribed 1. Sam. 8. be all one: and the laſt member comprehendeth all that goe before. And ſo it is not onelyonly no good diuiſion / but no diuiſion a… all. Nether is he any happier in applying off it. for where my ſecond propoſition was / that the eccleſiaſticall perſon is ſeuered from the cyuill by bearing domynion: he ſaith / that is true in the two fyrſte ſignifications. Wherby muſte follow / that ether yt is lawfull for the cyuill magiſtrate p. CCCCXXIIIto rule with oppreſſion / or els for the Biſhop. For if it be lawfull for nether of them: thē one is not ſeuered from the other / in thoſe kindes off domynion. The laſt ſection off the 62. page / &c. perteining altogether vntounto the queſtion off Biſhopes bearing cyuill offices. I will put ouer vntounto the proper place. Here the queſtion is onelyonly / what belongeth to the myniſter in reſpect off his eccleſiaſticall miniſtery.

The autoritie off man in Gods cawſe / weigheth no further then weight is giuen by reaſon. Therfore yow ſhould not preiudice the expoſition of this place / by Bucers Iudgement: eſpecially / cōſidering it hath counterpois / of other as learned. Howbeit although Bucer followed an other interpretaciō thē wee: yet yt ſhall appeare he mēt nothing leſſe / thē therby to approue any of this ſtately Lordlines vſed of our biſhops / and that he is in this cawſe ours. As for his interpretaciō / for my part although I cōfeſſe that Princes in prouiding for the peoples vnderunder them / doo after a ſort ſerue them: yet I deny that our S. Chriſt ment to note here / Princes duties in their gouernment. And fyrſt the circumſtance of the place doth confute yt. For when as the diſciples gaping after worldly rule / depended of the opiniō conceiued / that our S. Chriſt ſhould be a great king vponupon earth: it is apparant that his anſwer / that he came to be a miniſter and to ſerue, was to ouerthrow that phantaſye of theirs. as if he ſhould ſay / yow looke to be Lordes vnderunder me / and I my ſelf came not to be a lord / or Prince: wherfore yowr deſyre of rule vnderunder me / is in vaine. And if this be the naturall ſenſe of thoſe wordes: then yt is manifeſt / that this word of miniſtring / being oppoſed vntounto the ſtate of a Prince / this ſentence can by no meanes agree vntounto ciuill magiſtrates.

Further / when he calleth his diſciples to the imitacion of his ſeruice / and miniſtry (him ſelf being a miniſter of the goſpelly: it is cleare / that he ſpeaketh of ſuch a miniſtery / as can not agree vntounto the ciuill magiſtrate. This may yet better appeare / by the adiointes / or cleauinges knit vntounto the myniſtery: which being ſuche as can not agree to the cyuill Magiſtrate / it followeth that thes wordes can not be vnderſtanded off both gouernementes. For our S. Chriſt in his myniſtry / did not onelyonly ſerue vntounto others / but was as a ſeruāt: ād did not onelyonly miniſter / but was as a miniſter / p. CCCCXXIIIIthat is to ſay caried the face / and countenāce of a ſeruāt / in apparell / in diet / in obediēce vntounto the cyuill Magiſtrate. Wherunto the Apoſtle hath regard / when he ſaith / that our Sauiour tooke the ſhape / and forme off a ſeruant. But Princes althowgh they ſerue Philip. 2. 7.Phil 2:7the profite off their peoples: yet they nether carye / nether is it meet they ſhould carie / the forme / and ſhape off ſeruantes / ether in apparell / or diet / or any part off cyuill behauiour▪ but contrariwiſe it ſtandeth with the ordinance off God / that they ſhould hauehave ſome owtward marke off excellency / aboue the reſt.

Moreouer in that our Sauiour Chriſt / declareth that the cheiftye of the diſciples ſhall neuer be ſo great in the churche / but that the higheſt ſhall be ſeruant vntounto the reſt: it muſte needes be that he meaneth an other kinde off ſeruice / then can agree vntounto the cyuill Magiſtrate. For although he be called a miniſter, and Rom 13. 4. 6. foreign Act. 13. 36 foreign 2. Corin. 45. Pſal 2. 11. & 18. 1.Rom 13:4Rom 13:6Acts 13:36Ps 2:11Ps 18:1publicke officer of God for the profit of the people / ād it be ſaied that Dauid did miniſter vntounto the age vvherin he liued: yet that the holy goſt doth euer call them ſeruantes off their people / as he ſaith here his diſciples ſhall be / it can not be ſhewed. for this word ſeruant / which our Sauiour Chriſt attributeth vntounto his diſciples / and S. Paul vſed in ſaying that he was the Corinthians ſeruant, ſignifieth a lower / and more humble kinde off ſeruice then the other: and is neuer attributed (as I thinke) vntounto the ciuill Magiſtrate in reſpect off his ſubiectes / but onelyonly in reſpect off his ſubiection vntounto the Lord. Wherupon followeth / that forſomuch as our Sauiour Chriſt ſpeaketh here / of a more humble ſeruice then can fall into the Maieſtie of the cyuill Magiſtrate towardes his people. this place can not be vnderſtanded off the cyuill gouernement.

That in the end hath alſo force / that wheras the Euangeliſtes ſpeaking off principalitie / and greatnes which the Magiſtrate hath ouer his ſubiectes / vſe with full conſent the word Prince: when they come to deſcribe the ſuperioritie / and greatnes which foreign.our Saui. Chriſt will hauehave in his myniſters / they alſo with full conſent abſteine from it / being proper (as I hauehave ſhewed) to the Magiſtrate: and ſet in place theroff a leader, a word off leſſe autoritie / foreign Heb 13 7.Heb 13:7and by thapoſtle aſcribed vntounto myniſters. Where yf he had p. CCCCXXVment in that later part / to hauehave deſcribed the duty off the cyuill magiſtrate: he would by all likelihood hauehave kept the ſame word / ſaying / whoſoeuer amongeſt yow ſhalbe Prince / ſhall be as yowr ſeruant. Therfore yt is euident / that our Sauiour ment this ſentence off the miniſtry off the word / and not of Magiſtrates.

I know well yow ſay this place is fitly alledged againſt the Pope, Diuiſ 2. pag. 64.and that in wordes yow thruſt him far away / whom in deed yow cawſe to approch. But foraſmuch as yowr wordes ſeruing againſt the Pope / yowr reaſons are for him: and that his perſon being changed / his cawſe is ſtill defended: it behoued me to looke / not ſo much at yowr defiance in wordes / as at that maintenance which the courſe off yowr diſputation bringeth vntounto him. And let it be now conſidered / whether yowr toung being with the Biſhop / yowr hand be not with Harding. He to proue that the Pope may exerciſe both ciuill / and eccleſiaſticall iuriſdiction / In the def. off the Apol. part 6. c. 11. diuiſ. 4. 5.bringeth forth the exāple of Moſes both prieſt, and Prince. The Biſhop to confute that / alledgeth this text off S. Mathew. which if it put not a differēce betwene the office of a Prince / and off a miniſter (as yow ſay it doth not): then hath the Biſhop anſwered nothing. For the queſtion is not there / whether the Pope may tyran̄ouſly / or ambitiouſly ether ſeeke after / or exerciſe cyuill iuriſdictiō: but whether he may exerciſe any at all. Nether is the queſtion / whether the Pope may exerciſe that autoritie as a thing belonging vntounto him ſelf / or of the graunt off Princes. For then his rule ſhould be auouched good in ſome times / when the Emperours hauehave willingly ſubmitted them ſelues / with their ſcepters vntounto the pleaſure off Popes. As for his reigning in mennes conſciences, it peteineth not to this place. So that if the D. anſwer be good: then this place which the Biſhop alledgeth / maketh nothing againſt the Popes ciuill ſword / prouided that he ſeeke it not, and that he hauehave it of the kinges graunt. Which how contrary it is to the Biſhops meaning / may eaſely appeare by that which followeth.

Yf therfore he agree with the biſhop (as he ſaith): he muſte allow Defenſ. Apol. ib.off thes wordes off Cyprian / Chriſt by ſeuerall dutyes, and diſtinct honours, hath here ſet a difference betvvene both the p. CCCCXXVIpovvers. And then doth Bucers autoritie faile him: who thincketh that thoſe offices are not diſtinguiſhed in thoſe vvordes (it ſhall not be ſo vvith yovv). and then alſo is he goen from his ſtrongeſt hold / that our Sauiour Chriſt, did onelyonly diſcerne betwene the affections: when as it is ſaied / that he diſcerned betvvene the offices. Moreouer then muſt he allow off Bernardes ſaying: yt ys plaine that temporall domynion is forbidden the Apoſtles, novv therfore thovv being Pope hovv dareſt thovv vſurp ether the Apoſtleſhip being a prince, or the Princehood, being ſucceſſour off the Apoſtle? doubtles from the one off them thovv art forbidden, &c. And if he allow off this: then falleth he from his conning diſtinction / off hauing it ambitiouſly, and by election. For conſidering that Bernarde ſaith / he is forbidden it / and ſpeaketh not there againſt the abuſe / but againſt the vſe off dominion in a biſhop: it followeth that domynion nether falleth into a biſhop / in that he is a biſhop: nor can be receiued off him / being offred off the cyuill Magiſtrate. The reader therfore may ſee / that the expoſition yow follow off this place / doth quite ouerthrowe the biſhops anſwer / ād openeth the Papiſtes mouth which he had ſtopped.

**Diuiſ. 3. Pa 65. &cYf this cawſe ſhould be tried by autoritie / yow could gaine nothing. Not onelyonly Caluin / Iewell with the auncient fathers which he alledgeth / but aa57. ſerm in Apoc. 5. Dec. 2. ſerm.Rev 5Bulling. bbPraef. in Eccleſ.Zuing. ccVpō the place & 1. Act.Gualter with a a nomber of ddMelā. vt apparet 9 × 16. cont. Pighij. d Heming as appeareth 419 pa. alledged in my former booke.others / doo expound it as I hauehave doon: and proue by thoſe places off the Euangeliſtes in plaine wordes / that there is no ſuperioritie off one miniſter ouer an other / and that with fuller wordes then Caluin vſeth. And euen the very ſame word Maioritie, which yow ſay in the margent off the text / is proued by theſe places: Bullinger affirmeth to be ouertrowen by the ſame. As for yow / albeit yow pretend Muſculus, &c. yet in very deed theſe anſwers which yow make / are taken properly owt of ff5. li. Hierar. 5. c. & 8. & 16. cont. de poteſt. eccleſ.Pigghius: which hath all thoſe corners / reaſons / and ſhiftes / almoſt word for word / as yow hauehave cowched them here in this treatiſe.

I report me whether I hauehave ſpoken to the meaning or no: yow hauehave muſtered them by fyrſt, ſecond, third, I will alſo anſwer them ſeuerally. And to the firſt I anſwer / that although our Saui. Chriſt p. CCCCXXVIIſaied not, no man owght to be great amongeſt yow: yet he ſaied as muche. for when he ſaith / the greateſt ſhalbe as the leaſt, he that is firſt, as ſeruant to all: he fetching downe the greateſt to the leaſt / and making the cheiftie amongeſt them a ſeruice vntounto them all: taketh away all dominion off one ouer an other. This reaſon I hauing anſwered before / was vnneedfull to be here repeated. ſo remaineth for him to proue / that if our Sauiour Chriſt had ment to take away all domynion off the Apoſtles, one ouer an other: then he would hauehave ſaied, no man owght to be great amongeſt yow, and that there was no other way to giuegive owt this ſenſe but this. The ſecond concludeth / that our Sauiour had no meaning to take away ſuperiours amongeſt Chriſtians, nothing to this queſtion. For no man denieth / but there owght to be ſuperiours. As for that he interlaceth off Peter… cheifty: it is anſwered afterward.

The ſimilitudes he vſeth / can not win his ſuperioritie off one miniſter ouer an other. For as for heauenly bodies, althowgh one off them be more excellent then an other: yet they exerciſe no dominion one ouer an other. Therfore if it proue any thing: it proueth that excellency off giftes amongeſt eccleſiaſticall perſons / doth not lift them vp in autoritie / and commaundement one ouer an other: but onelyonly maketh a differēce in order / ād comelines. Which we hauehave ſhewed in the beginning to be in eccleſiaſticall myniſtery: where we willingly receiue order / oppoſed to confuſion: refuſing domynion oppoſed vntounto ſubiection. For the heauenly ſpirites. what will yow alledge to proue / that they hauehave domynion one ouer an other? The place of the Epheſians / thrones, domynions, principalities, povvres? if yow doo: it is boldier then Auguſtine durſt doo. But if they be ſuperiour one to an other: that ſuperioritie is Enchi. 58 ca.anſwered in the church by ſuperioritie off myniſters ouer the people. If they be ſeuered in orders one from an other: that is not denied to be in officers off the church. If they exerciſe domynion one ouer an other: that is expreſſed in commen wealthes. So that if the Anſw. were able to proue all theſe / which will be hard for him withowt Denyſes dreames: yet he may ſee they conclude not a domynion / off one miniſter ouer an other. The third reaſon likewiſe / concludeth not againſt this cawſe: and to thes two reaſons p. CCCCXXVIIII anſwered at large. Which if the Anſ. would hauehave taken away: he owght to hauehave ſhewed / that there can be no ſuperioritie of one ouer an other in the church / onles one miniſter be ſuperior to another. but that he paſſeth ſlily by / and picketh a quarell vntounto the examples.

To his exception againſt the firſt example / that there is inequalitie amongeſt ſeruantes: I anſwer there is none / but by the maiſters expreſſe appointement. And therfore if he will hauehave aduantage theroff: he muſte proue that it is the Lordes ordinance / that one miniſter ſhoulde rule ouer an other. beſide that / it is enough to mainteine mine anſwer / off equalitie off ſeruantes in a familie / that it is ſo for the moſt part: ād whē my meaning was of ſeruā tes left in one / and the ſame order / yt is owt off time to alledge this exāple. Secōdly the inequalitie there made / is not of one ſteward ouer an other / but ouer the familie which he miniſtreth vntounto: and therfore this ſimilitude maketh to ſhew / that one miniſter is not ruler ouer an other / but eueryevery miniſter ruler off his flock. Thirdly that ſimilitude off gouernement off the ſteward, Math. 24. being propounded as a picture to ſet forth the rule off miniſters ouer their flockes: declareth not onelyonly how there owght no gouernement to be erected in the church / but by commaundment off God: but alſo how far it owght to be from that abſolute domynion / or lordly pomp / which the Anſw. would bring in. which Muſc. a great man with the D. declareth / when he ſaieth: He ſpeaketh after the commen faſchion: for this vvas the office of the principall ſeruant, to gyue eueryevery man his diet: he vvas not VponUpon 24. Math.appointed to be lord off others.

As for his exception againſt my other example / of equalitie off brethren: the inequalitie which the ſcripture maketh betwene the elder brother, and the reſt, is nothing les then any rule / or autoritie to commaund them: but onelyonly a reuerence which the younger owght to beare to the elder / which we willingly graunt amongeſt the miniſtery / that the younger men gyue place to the gray heares off the elder. Thother preeminence off hauing two partes off the goodes, wheroff the younger brethren had but one / is no matter off inequalitie in autoritie / wherof onelyonly we ſpeake: wherin alſo p. CCCCXXIXwe will not deny / but one miniſter according to his charge off children / may hauehave greater portion then other. And both theſe exceptions are not taken againſt my allegation ſo muche / as againſt the godly writers off our tyme. Which to proue the equalitie of autoritie off the biſhop off Rome / with other biſhops: hauehave alledged that they called one an other brethren, that they vvere fellovv ſeruantes.

Dominion here forbidden (ſaith the Anſ.) is not of one miniſter ouer an other, but ouer the people: wherin he is greatly deceiued. For our Sau. Chriſt ſpeaking to his 12. diſciples according to S. Math. ſaith vvhoſoeuer ſhall be great amongeſt yovv, ſhall be yovvr miniſter, and vvhoſoeuer amongeſt yovv ſhall be fyrſt, ſhall be yovvr ſeruant: reſtreining their ſeruice off ech off them / vntounto the reſidue off their fellowes. Againe the circumſtance in S. Math. and Marck / that the other ten diſdained at the tvvo brethren, and which S. Luke expreſſeth / that the contention vvas amongeſt the 12. vvhichwhich off them might ſeeme to be greateſt: do manifeſtly ouerthrow that ſaying. For if they had not deſired to be aboue the reſidue off their fellowes: there had bene no cawſe off diſdaigne. And the ſtrife was not / what gouernment they ſhould vſe ouer the people: but which amongeſt them ſelues ſhould be greateſt. Wherupon onles we will ſay / that our Saui. Chriſt laied his plaiſter beſide the ſore / and ſpake from the pourpoſe off that the cawſe required: yt muſt be confeſſed / that this domynion forbidden / is in reſpect off one miniſter ouer an other.

Whereby him that ſitteth at the table, he would hauehave the people vnderſtanded: he is groſly ouerſeen. for ſo by the teſtimony off our S. Chriſt / the people ſhould be greater then he him ſelf: ſeing he affirmeth / that he vvhichwhich ſitteth is greater then he vvhichwhich vvaiteth. For noting the dignitie off a miniſter / by that vſually annexed vntounto maiſters / to ſit at the table while their ſeruātes wait: he teacheth that forſomuch as he their maiſter / to whom it apperteined to ſit / and be waited vponupon / was vntounto them rather as a ſeruant waiting / then a maiſter ſitting at the table: much more they being fellowes / ſhould ſerue one an other. Where yow charge me for not truly tranſlating the greeke word: I appele to the maiſters p. CCCCXXXforeign.off that toung / whether I hauehave followed the naturall etimol… gie. Where yow ad that it ſignifieth the cheif ruler, or guide in eueryevery buſines: I acknowledge yow for no Lexicon / and being in controuerſie / it owght to hauehave bene proued. Stephen doth affirme that In this Theſau.they vvhichwhich tranſlate it a prince, hauehave no ground that he can tell off. What cheifty S. Peter had amongeſt thereſidue off the Apoſtles / ſhalbe conſidered in a more fit place: it ſhall be ſufficient here to hauehave noted / that the Anſ. expoſition off the word / firſt is the ſame with Hardinges: and my expoſition which he here confuteth / alone with the biſhops which he confirmeth by good argumentes / where he denieth that S. Peter was Prince of the Artic 4. diuiſ. 31.Apoſtles / or Lord ouer them / or had power / or dominion ouer them. Then it ouerthroweth Muſculus. For where he ſaith that Peter vvas found in many places to hauehave bene cheif amongeſt the reſt: the D. by this expoſition / maketh him cheif ſymply in all places. Thus it may appeare / that yowr cawſe findeth ſmall harting at Muſc. hand.

Yow ſay my expoſition is contrary to the truth, and iudgement off the learned: but yow ſhew onelyonly that it agreeth not with certein Diuiſ. 4. pag. 69.interpreters iudgement / that the truth is otherwiſe / yow ſhew not. If yow had ſhewed the fyrſt / that it is contrary to the truth: the ſecond had bene needles. I propounded that doubtfully / and although that ſignificatiō of the prepoſition hath good warrant owt of the vſe off that toung: yet I will not ſtand at the armes and / with ſo learned interpreters for it. Howbeit when I gyue place / yet S. Luke may not gyue back: who vſing the ſimple verbes withowt the prepoſition / maketh manifeſt that there is no peruerſenes / or deformitie off gouernment noted. for if he ſhoulde meane to ſet forth a peruerſenes / or deformitie off gouernement / and hauing ſo many wordes to doo it with / yet did not: I can not ſee how he ſhould hauehave bene voide off ſome fault. Where yow ſay he muſt be expounded by thother Euangeliſtes: that can by no meanes be admitted. For it commeth often to paſſe in the greek toung / that compound verbes are put for ſimples: but that ſimples hauehave a compound ſignification / the vſe off that toung will not ſuffer. For the vſe off the word in the Actes, and S. Peter: beſide that p. CCCCXXXIit is not ſtraunge for one word in ſcripture / to be taken diuerſly: that place maketh nothing to proue this ſignification. For what vvord ſoeuer S. Luke had vſed in the Actes: yet forſomuch as that action came from thoſe vncleane ſpirites / it muſt needes be diſordered. Therfore the peruerſenes off it / doth not appeare in the word / but in the ſubiect from whence it came.

And if a man would make that word to ſignifie a deformitie / becawſe that rule was beyond meaſure: by the ſame reaſon the wordes Prince / Rule / Power / names off lawfull autoritie / ſhould be condemned: For that a ſcribed vntounto Deuills / Ioh. 14. 30. 6. Epheſ. 12. foreign.John 14:30John 14:6they are allwaies tyrannicall. And Beza alſo here alledged / in that place ſaith / the vvord noteth not any dominiō there, but onelyonly that they gat the vpper hand of thoſe exorciſtes: which when it may be taken aſwell in good part / as in the euill: the Anſw. can by no meanes help hym ſelfe therewith. For that off Saint Peter / where he ſaith it is manifeſt that it ſignifieth violent dominion: I graunt that that rule which it ſignifieth / is violent in a Paſtor / but that which is violēt in him ouer his flock / is moderate / and lawful in a Prince ouer his ſubiectes. and ſo S. Peter kept the ſame diſtinction off gouernement off the ciuill Magiſtrate / and the Miniſter / which he had learned off our Sauiour Chriſt. For if he ment by that word / a dominion ſimply tirannicall: he vvould hauehave oppoſed yt vntounto a moderate dominion / not as he did vntounto being an example off the flock. As if he ſhould ſay / yow muſt not beare dominion ouer yowr flockes as Princes / vvhichwhich vvith diuers notes of their magnificence get autoritie ouer their ſubiectes: but yow not hauing thes meanes / to get reuerence and autoritie amongeſt yowr flockes / muſt ſo much the more enforce yowr ſelues / to all commendable example off life.

Wherunto agreeth that which Saint Paul vvriteth vntounto Timothe: whom he exhorteth to kepe vp his autoritie in the 1. Tim. 4. 12.1 Tim 4:12churche / and deliuer him ſelf from contempt vvhichwhich his yowth vvas ſubiect vntounto / by being a patron off good vvorckes vntounto his churche. And Beza in that place / ſaying by thoſe vvordes care, and no kingdome ys commytted vntounto Myniſters, and that by that place yt appeareth, that Paſtors may not beare p. CCCCXXXIIrule ouer their flockes, after the manner off kinges: doth ſufficiently declare / that the word doth not ſignifie ſimply a tirannicall dominion / but one ſuch as agreing vntounto kinges / is notwithſtanding vnſitting for Paſtors. For he ſaith kingdome / and Kinges: not Tyrannie / nor Tyrantes / which he owght to hauehave ſaied / if he would hauehave confirmed yowr interpretation. Beſide that Stephen putteth both the ſimple / and compound to In his Theſ.ſignifie one thing: that is / a ſimple dominion withowt any ſuche taile off tyrannie / as is here imagined.

Yow may deny if yow will that the ſnow is white. By (all thes places) muſt needes be vnderſtanded thoſe which Muſc. off whom yow ſpeake / doth interprete: but yowr ſelf had ſayed In 1. diui. off this chap.before / that he expoundeth thoſe three off S. Math. Marck / and Luke: therfore although yow added not three, yet that muſte needes be vnderſtanded. And in this yowr ſhift yow breake yowr grammers head: ſeing Ariſtotle teacheth that the numbre of three, is the leaſt numbre that this vvord all can be verifyed off. Lib. 1. de coelo 1. c.Where yow ſaied Chriſt did not ſay no man ſhall be great amongeſt thē: my anſwer was that he had ſaied that before, and needed not to repete it, wherunto yow anſwer nothing. The place I alledged owt of S. Luke / ouerthroweth yowr anſwer. For if by thes wordes vvhoſoeuer vvill be great, deſire off dominion had bene onelyonly found fault with: then he would not hauehave ſpokē ſimply / vvhoſoeuer amongeſt yovv, withowt adding any thing off ambitiō / or deſire to rule: and to this yow anſwer nothing / but couer yowr ſelf onelyonly with Muſc. autoritie. For where yow ſay / yow ſpake as the wordes be▪ yow vnderſtand well that they doo not ſpecifie any ambitiō / which yow muſt needes meane / or els yow mainteine not yowr anſwer. Where yow ſay, S. Lukes wordes make againſt me, as which inſinuate that there muſt be ſome great amongeſt them: yow take it otherwiſe then it is. For if yow will not admit the interpretacion I alledged / in referring this greatnes vntounto excellency of gyftes one aboue an other: nor Cal. interpretation ſauoreth not in yowr taſt, that it is as much as if our Sauiour ſhould ſay, yovvr greatnes, excellency, and dignitie ſhalbe, in ſubmitting p. CCCCXXXIIIyovvr ſelues vntounto yovv brethren: yet yow vvill not refuſe Bucer / vvhom yow here build vponupon. vvhichwhich by great in this place / vnderſtandeth him that is elder in age: and proueth it by the word foreignyounger, oppoſed to him. And it is not vnlike but one of thoſe reaſons / wherby ſome off thoſe diſciples would hauehave grounded their principalitie ouer other their fellowes / vvas for that they vvere auncienter in yeares. Which ſoeuer of thes expoſitions yow admit: yow ſee that to be great here / ſignifieth nothing les / then any dominion off one miniſter ouer another.

Firſt the Anſ. ſaith / that I goe about to proue that our Sauiour Diuiſ. 5. Pag. 70.Christ doth not reproue thambition off his diſciples: vvhichwhich is a manifeſt vntruth. For I ſay that he doth reproue it / and gyue alſo larger place to the reproofe off their ambition / then he. for vvhere he would hauehave it to conſiſt onelyonly in that they ambitiously deſired to rule ouer their fellowes: I affirme that he did not onelyonly take them vp for that / but alſo that they deſired to rule one ouer an other / which was not lawfull. Secondly he ſaith / I hauehave falſified his wordes, in that I father off him that our Sauiour reprehended onelyonly thambition of his diſciples. vvhichwhich I doo not / for my vvordes aſcribe vntounto him that he ſaied / they vvere reproued not onelyonly for deſire off rule / but for rule to oppreſſe. Then to maintein this quarrell / he affirmeth he ſaied / our Sauiour reproueth the tirannicall rule off kinges off the Gentills: as thowgh that made any thing to proue / that he did in his diſciples onelyonly reproue ambition. For reproofe of oppreſſion in kinges: vvas not part off reprehenſion off the diſciples.

Moreouer he coulde not be ignorant by the courſe off diſputation / that vvhen I ſaied / yf ambition onelyonly vvere reprehended in the diſciples: I ment that, if our S. Chriſt had forbidden his diſciples ambitious deſyre off rule one ouer an other, and not rule it ſelf: which doth manifeſtly towch the cawſe. Thus partly with a manifeſt vntruth / partly with a trifling cauil / which (if it were true) maketh nether whoat / nor kold: it ſeemeth he would hauehave caſt a miſt before his readers eies / that he ſhould not ſee him giuegive the ſlip from my firſt argument in this diuiſ. For vntounto this reaſon / that in that ſenſe off the place vvhichwhich he p. CCCCXXXIIIIſetteth dovvne, the anſvver off our Sauiour Chriſt ſhoulde not hauehave benefit: conſidering the Diſciples might hauehave replied, that he forbad tyrannicall rule of their inferiours, but they deſyred moderate, and vvell ruled gouernement: he anſwereth not a word. To his anſwer vntounto the ſecond reaſon / that they are called bountifull, which hauehave no ſparck of bountifulnes: I replie that althowgh that may ſometimes come to paſſe / yet it ſhoulde hauehave bene owt of time / to hauehave made mention of it here in that ſenſe. For if as yow ſay / our Sauiour ſpeake here againſt the tirannie, and ambition of Princes: then it was owt off place to make mention off the flatterie off their ſubiectes / which call them by the title off bountifull. For that is rather the fault off the ſubiectes / then off the Princes. If yow ſay that they deſire that title: firſt the wordes off S. Luke doo not beare it owt: for he ſaith they are called gratious Lordes / and not they deſire to be ſo called. Then it being a thing not ſimply vnlawfull / for a Prince to deſire to be called / and counted bountifull / to this end that by that fame men might be more ſeruiceable: althowgh it ſhould be graunted to yow / that S. Luke ment that they deſire that title: yet foraſmuch as there is no ſtaine off ambition / or tirannie in that deſire / yow are ſtill behinde with yowr anſwer.

For yowr example off the Pope called moſt holieſt, &c. yt is nothing like. For men deceiued by error / call hym ſo: and althowgh they ſay vntruly / yet they ſpeake as they thinck / which can not be in this caſe, conſidering that no man can be abuſed by a falſe opinion off his bountifulnes / which not onelyonly giueth not / but is an oppreſſor. And although as there are found which knowing the wickednes off the Pope / call him notwithſtanding moſt holy: ſo there be vvhichwhich knowing the illiberalitie off their Princes / call them notwithſtanding bountifull: yet yow ſhould hauehave conſidered / that S. Luke ſpeaketh not here / how Princes are called off certein particular perſons: but by what titles they are called generally / of all their ſubiectes. So that if yow would hauehave ſpokê to pourpoſe / yow ſhould hauehave ſhewed / that it is a cōmen thing for tyrantes / to be called generally of their ſubiectes whom they pill / bountifull: and that vvhichwhich is harder for yow to doo / that p. CCCCXXXVmen will call miniſters bountifull / which giuegive nothing. Otherwiſe the interpretation vvhichwhich yow imagine / hath no place.

To my third reaſon / that it is not to be thovvght off all the Apoſtles, that they deſyred rule one ouer another, to the end they might vſe crueltie, and oppreſsion ouer their fellovves: he anſwereth not a vvord. It may be as I hauehave ſhewed / gathered off the ſcripture / which is not expreſſed in it: els how take yow vponupon yow to ſet downe / that the 10. were as ambitious in diſdayning, as the 2. were in deſiring, ſeing that is not expreſſed? If I be deceiued, in thincking that thoſe greek wordes be all one: I am deceiued with the foreign Heſychius.Grecians / for ſo I hauehave red. And if yowr autoritie were any in this caſe / yet it is ſuſpected: and therfore needed better proof / then yowr bare vvord. and albeit it vvere true / that the one hath ſometime a more larger vſe, then the other: yet hereit appeareth / that the indignation off theſe Apoſtles vvas ſuch / as Ariſtotle defineth thother vvord by: that is / conceiued off an opinion they had, that thoſe foreign.tvvo vvere not vvorthy to rule ouer them.

The vvordes off our Sauiour Chriſt in the 20. of S. Math. &c. are ſpoken vntounto the 12. onelyonly / vvhom he had ſet apart for the Chap. 24 Diuiſ. 1. Pag. 72.miniſterie off the goſpell: but his vvordes S. Math. 23. are ſpoken not onelyonly vntounto them / but vntounto the commen people. Wheruppon it followeth / that our Sauiour ioining the people vvith his diſciples / in the dehortations vvhichwhich he maketh here: could not as in the other place / vvhere he ſpeaketh vntounto them alone / ſpeake off the proper liſtes / and boundes of the miniſterie: and therfore there is no cauſe vvhy M. ſhoulde be glad, that I agree with hym in the expoſition off Math. 23. Further / Math. 20. making compariſon betwene the 12. diſciples / and Princes: here ſo far as towcheth the diſciples / he maketh compariſon betwene them / and other eccleſiaſticall miniſters. There being therfore thinges in the ſtate off a commendable Prince / vvhichwhich agree not vntounto the miniſtery of the goſpell: it followeth that he may be well thowght / there not onelyonly to hauehave forbidden the diſciples ambition / damnable in bothe eſtates: but alſo thoſe thinges / which being commendable in Princes / agree not vntounto them. Off the other ſide / all thinges cōmendable in the Phariſes miniſtrie Eccleſiaſticall / agreing likewiſe to p. CCCCXXXVItheirs: it followeth of neceſſitie / that there he muſt needes ſpeake againſt ambition onelyonly. VntoUnto the next diuiſ. being reproches / I anſwer not: onelyonly vvhere he chargeth me vvith falſehood, becawſe I affirme he ſaith / the booke off commen praier is a perfect rule to gouerne the churche off England by / where nothing is wanting / or to much: I anſwer that there be not the ſame wordes / but when there is nothing he will acknowledge to be off the order of the booke / which he mainteineth not / and refuſeth to hauehave added thinges vvhichwhich hauehave their ground off the word: I leaue to the reader to iudge / whether although my wordes are vvith the fulleſt / yet I am far from his meaning.

Now I returne againe to his 8 Tract. The Anſ. ſkoffing vppon my vnſkilfulnes in logicke / ſaith he can finde nether head, nor foot Diuiſ. 7. pag 303.in my reaſon. Thus I will finde both. They which deny the lawfulnes of Iohns miniſtrie / becauſe there was no ſuche miniſterie conteined in the ſcriptures / thowght no miniſterie lawfull / not conteined in them: but the Scribes / and Leuites did ſo: therfore they eſteemed no miniſterie lawfull / not conteined in ſcripture. Againſt this he taketh exception / firſt to the tranſlation / which is altogether friuolus. for beſide that both the wordes may beare that ſignikication / and it is not vnlike but by the article / the Euangeliſt ment not ſome one ſingular Prophet / ſpoken of in the law beſide the Meſſias / but rather any Prophet extraordinary / to vvhom the Lord ſhewed him ſelf / ether by viſion / or dreame: Nom. 12. 6.the interpretation vvhichwhich he citeth owt of Beza / altereth not the argument / but rather ſtrenghtheneth it / noting therby that it vvas neceſſary not onelyonly to hauehave the function off a Prophet: but off one which vvas eſpecially noted / and marked owt by the ſcripture. Secōdly where he ſaith / that if they had aſked Iohn whether he had bene a Prophet, he would not hauehave denied it, and addeth for proofe theroff / our Sauiour Chriſt ſaied he was one: he is abuſed. for our Sauiour ſaying that he vvas greater then a prophet, and that the Math. 11. …. 13.Matt 11Prophetes endured vntill Iohns comming, denieth that he vvas a Prophet / and maketh his miniſterie a meane function betwene the function of a Prophet / and miniſterie off the goſpell: more excellent then the firſt / and inferior to the other. If he vvould hauehave had a coulor off his defenſe / he ſhould rather hauehave cited his fathers p. CCCCXXXVIIſaying of him / which calleth him the Prophet of the higheſt: 1. Luk. 76.but that could not hauehave ſerued the turne nether / For that the vvorde is there taken generally / for thoſe which teach the will off God: which is often as hath bene ſhewed.

Yowr third exception / that all the functions are not reckened vpp, becawſe they aſke him not whether he was a Prieſt, or Leuite: is as vaine as the reſt for therfore they aſke him not / becawſe he tawght not being conſecrated vntounto any of them / according to the eccleſiaſticall order prouided in that behalf: and that vvas one occaſion off this embaſſadge vntounto Iohn. Laſt off all / where in the margent he ſaith / that the Phariſes made falſe argumentes, and that I doo the ſame: he ſpeaketh vnaduiſedly. for howſoeuer there was otherwiſe great ignorance in them: yet that their reaſon vvas good herin / it appeareth by that S. Iohn to proue his miniſterie lawfull / browght teſtimonie theroff owt off the ſcripture: and for that our 1. Ioh. 23. Mat. 21. 25Matt 21:25Sauiour Chriſt / meaning to confirme the miniſterie off Iohn / aſketh whether it were from heauen / or off men. In vvhichwhich wordes condemning all miniſteries vvhichwhich men inſtitute / and that come not from heauen: he confirmeth the Pariſes argument / vvhichwhich vvas that Iohn exerciſing a myniſterie not ordeined by the law / ſhould hauehave bene gilty of breach of the law / if he could not hauehave ſhewed ſome extraordinarie vocatiō. Thus appeareth that there vvas both bead, and foot in this argumēt: and that by all likelyhood true / vvhichwhich he could not impugne but by vntruth. The 8. and 9. diuiſ. vvhichwhich follow / hauehave (as commonly the reſt) nothing but bare ſayinges: which becawſe I ſhall meet withall againe / I vvill heere paſſe ouer▪ onelyonly in the eight yt ys to be noted / that he ſaith it is ſeruile to tie the church off Chriſt to the patrone off the Iewes Synagoge. Wherin ether he ſaith nothing / or he would hauehave vnderſtanded more / then he dare veter. For if he meane that the church of Chriſt may not be in all ordinances / and ceremonies cōformable to that off the Iewes: it maketh nothing to the pourpoſe. but if he meane that the church hath now more libertie in adding miniſteries / then the Iewes had / as his anſwer to that I ſet downe doth require: then I ſee no cawſe vvhy he ſhould not hauehave ſo ſaied. But that although he would ſay / yet he durſt not: and therfore ſpa… thus vncertenly / that vvhē I ſhould ſhew the cōtrary: he in p. CCCCXXXVIIIthis generall ſpeach / might hauehave ſome corner to hide him in.

Seing I muſt needes proue that the crow is blacke / that is Diuiſ 10. pag. 304.to ſay / tharchbiſhoprick a new miniſterie / thus yt is proued. That which hath diuers efficient cawſes / is an other / and diuers: but there are diuers efficient cawſes off the miniſterie off tharchbiſhop / and thoſe expreſſed in the word off God. That there are diuers efficient cawſes / is manifeſt: for that the office off Biſhop / Elder / and Deacon being by God him ſelf / the office off tharchbiſhop / was deuiſed / and browght in by man. And although this be proof enough / to them that hauehave their ſenſes exerciſed in the holy ſcripture / where in the miniſterie oftentimes they are called ſtraungers / which hauehave not their offices limited by the Nomb. 18 4.preſcript off Gods word: yet that it may appeare how litle modeſtie there is in this ſtrong deniall / I will ad others. Wheras a Biſhop may be ordeined by two / or three other Biſhops: tharchbiſhop muſt be ordeined by all the Biſhops off the prouince / ether preſent / or at the leaſt conſenting. Now ſeing the ordination is off the forme off their miniſterie / and thes formall cauſes be diuers: yt followeth that thes offices muſt needes be diuers. And that the ſubſtantiall / and eſſentiall forme of a Biſhop / is differente from that off tharchbiſhop / yt is plaine alſo by that they are members off one diuiſion / and therfore off neceſſitie differ in the ſubſtantiall forme: as a man differeth from a brute beaſt / not in circumſtance / but in that he is off an other nature. And when the D. graunteth the effectes / and worckes off tharchbiſhop / to be diuers from thoſe off the Biſhop / the one ruling / thother obeing / and that by oth gyuen and taken: it ſeemeth very ſtraunge / that he ſhould deny that it is a new / and diuers office from thoſe appointed in the ſcripture.

Furthermore / when as the ſubiectes off the Biſhop / and Archbiſhop be diuers / where about they be occupied / the one hauing one church / or to ſpeake according to his ſenſe / one Dioceſe / thother a whole prouince: ſtill it muſt fall owt / that they are diuers offices. Laſt off all / foraſmuch as offices in the ſcripture / are perpetuall / and thoffice off an Archbiſhop may be taken away by men (by his owne confeſſion): yt muſt follow / that they be diuers offices. And if he looke when I ſhould conclude a new miniſ…e: p. CCCCXXXIXbeſide that yt is all new which is ſtraunge / and ſtraunge which is not cōmaunded by the word of God: yt comming as ſhall appeare ſome hundreth yeares after the Apoſtles times / whoſe onelyonly autoritie is able to make the grey heares / and antiquitie of a thing be reuerēced: it followeth that this word new / if. he nouriſh any miſterie in it / is alſo truly verified of the miniſterie of tharchbiſhop.

Timothe, and Tite, ſhall neuer be proued to hauehave had any ſuch autoritie ouer the reſt / and if they had / yet yt falleth not on tharchbiſhops ſide: ſeing they were no Biſhops / but Euangeliſtes / as hath appeared. When the church appointed one Biſhop to rule ouer all Miniſters, Elders, and Deacons in the ſame church: yt did appoint a new miniſterie. and all thes reaſons almoſt / before browght againſt the newnes off tharchbiſhops functions / returne vponupon the head of that inſtitution. And if there be any hould in the Anſ. word / he hath otherwhere affirmed / that thoffice off a Biſhop is ſuperior vntounto the office off a Paſtor. yf ſo / it is not the ſame. But why dare not the D. pag. 137.aſwell confeſſe / that the church may erect a new myniſterie? ſeing he affirmeth flatly as much in effect, for to proue an Archbiſhop / he alledgeth / that beſide thoſe in the ſcripture / the church may appoint both names / and offices. now I would gladly know / firſt whether when the church appointeth an office / that was neuer before a new office / or no? and then whether a new office be a new mynyſterye? And yff to erect vpp an office which was neuer / be to erect a new office / and a new office be a new mynyſterie: it muſt follow that the churche in erecting an other office / then is ſet forth in ſcripture / erecteth a new miniſterie. The Anſ. is afraied to confeſſe a new miniſterie / and not afraied to confeſſe a new office: off which ſuperſtition I would gladly vnderſtand ſome reaſon. Now where he would hauehave the care off our Sauiour ouer his church in time off the goſpel, to conſiſt in that he hath ſet downe the doctrine more plainly in all poinctes, then vnderunder the law: this being a doctrine off ſaluacion vnderunder the law / that there ſhould be miniſters in the church: yt followeth by his owne ſaying / that he hath ſet yt downe more plainly in all pointes now / then vnderunder the law. Therfore alſo this point / how many orders / and degrees off miniſterie owght to be / conſidering that that was preciſely defined in the law / is more narrowly bounded in the goſpel. Thus p. CCCCXLhe defending more in deed / then in wordes he dare ſet downe: is almoſt at continuall battaile with himſelf / and hath ſcarce at any tyme his proofes / and propoſitions of one meaſure.

But that I follow not the chaſe off wordes / leauing his meaning / where … any light footing of it to be found: that which he would ſay / and wherwith his pourpoſe is vpholden / can not ſtand: that albeit our Sauiour hath tawght the doctrine more plainly now, then vnderunder the lawe: yet it followeth not that he hath performed that in the gouernement off the church. If this be his meaning as I ſaied / there is great iniurie doon vntounto the church / great diſhonor vntounto our Sauiour Chriſt. For he hauing at all tymes doon the office / not onelyonly off a Doctor in teaching / but alſo off a king in preſcribing the manner / and forme off gouernement vntounto yt: howmuch ſoeuer he is ſaied to hauehave doon leſſe / in appointing the outward gouernement off his church now / then vnderunder the law: ſo muche is both he robbed off that part off his kingly office / which God his heauenly Father annointed hym vntounto / and the church ſpoiled of the fruict which ſhould come vntounto her therby. Yt ys therfore a moſt certein doctrine / that in all thinges perteining to the kingdom of heauen / whether in matter off doctrine / or gouernment / the Lord hath in as great ſpecialtie marcked them owt / as ether before / or vnderunder the law. In cyuill matters / and thinges perteining to this preſent life / he hath I graunt vſed a greater particularytie with them / then amongeſt vsus / framing lawes according to the qualitie of that people / and coontrey: wherin the leauing of vsus at greater libertie / ys ſo far from prouing the like libertie in thinges perteining to the kingdom off heauen / that they rather proue a ſtreighter bond. For euen as when the Lord would hauehave his fauour more appeare by temporall bleſſinges off this life towardes the people vnderunder the law / then towardes vsus / he gaue alſo polityke lawes moſt exactly / wherby they might both moſt eaſely come into / and moſt ſtedfaſtly remaine in poſſeſſyon off thoſe earthly benfites: euen ſo at this tyme / wherin he would not hauehave his fauour ſo much eſteemed by thoſe owtward commodities / is required that as his care in preſcribing lawes for that pourpoſe / hath ſomewhat fallen in leauing them to mennes cōſultations / which may be deceiued: ſo his care for conduit / and gouernement p. CCCCXLIof the life to come / ſhould (if it were poſſible) riſe / in leauing leſſe to the order off men / then in times paſt.

And the D. ſhould ether hauehave cut off quite / that part off the Kingly office off Chriſt / which conſiſteth in owtward gouernement off his church: or els hauehave let yt had the full courſe. Now when he graunteth that beſide the doctrine off ſaluacion / he entred into the deſcription off outward gouernement off the church (ſaying beſide the doctrine he ordeined there ſhould be not onelyonly fit miniſters to publiſh it, but officers to gouerne the people in godlines) as if in beginning off that deſcription he declared his care ouer his church / and not … making an end off it: he ſignifieth that he declared leſſe care. For if to deſcribe the three offices of gouernemēt / Biſhop / Deacon / and Elder / were an argument off his louelove / and care towardes his church: had not alſo the adding to off the fourth (yf any were) bene a token off the ſame? But if as the Anſ. would make vsus belieue / the Lord declared his great care, and louelove more towardes his church, in leauing that office at her arbitrement: then yt ſhould alſo follow / that in appointing no more but the Deacon / and Elder which gouerneth onelyonly / yea in appointing no officer at all / he ſhould hauehave ſhewed him ſelf more carefull / and louing. Which if yt be abſurd: that he ſaith wherof this followeth / is not to be admitted.