A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 46
The next ſection I hauehave anſweared in the treatiſe of the archbyſhops / it followeth to ſpeake vntounto the remnant of that ſection which is contayned in the. 214. 215. 216. 217. 218. pages / for vntounto a part therof which is comprehended in the. 213. and a peece of the. 214. page / I hauehave anſweared in the ſame treatiſe of the Archbyſhops.
THe places alledged by the Admonition to proue that myniſters of the church may not intermeddle with ciuill functions (one only excepted) are well and fitly alledged: and moſt of them vſed to that ende of wryters / which if I ſhould name / all would confeſſe / that they are ſuch / as with whome M. Doctor is not worthy to be ſo much as ſpoken of the ſame day.
For the firſt place / if ſo be that the myniſter ought rather to leaue neceſſary 9. Luk. 60. 61dueties of burying hys father / & ſaluting hys frends vndone / then that he ſhoulde not accomplyſh hys miniſtery to the full: much more he ought not to take vponupon hym thoſe thinges / which are not only not neceſſary dueties / but as it ſhall appeare / doe in no caſe belong vntounto hym. And although it may be applyed to all Chryſtians / yet it doth moſt properly belong vntounto the myniſters. And as for the other place of Luke / touching our ſauyoure Chryſtes refuſall to deuide the 12. Luke. 14.inheritaunce betweene the brethren / it is moſte aptly alledged to thys purpoſe. For althoughe our ſauioure Chriſte doth not there take away from men / authoritie to iudge / yet hee ſheweth thereby ſufficiently / that it belongeth not vntounto the miniſters of the worde / to intermeddle in the iudgement of cyuil cauſes. For our ſauioure Chriſt framed that anſwere / hauing reſpect to the boundes of his calling.
For as he being a Miniſter of the Goſpell / dyd all thoſe things which were pertayning to hys myniſtery: So by refuſing thys office of iudgement in cyuill cauſes / he gaue to vnderſtand that it did not appertayne vntounto the compaſſe of that office / which he exerciſed / which was the miniſtery. And therfore it is altogether out of ſeaſon that M. D. here alledgeth / that the Anabaptiſtes vſe thys reaſon to proue that chriſtians may not hauehave magiſtrates. For how doth thys follow / that becauſe thys place of S. Luke proueth not / that we ought to hauehave no chriſtian magiſtrates: that therfore it proueth not / that the miniſter ſhould be no magiſtrate / as if there coulde bee no ciuill magiſtrates / onleſſe miniſters of the worde were.
And the place which he alledgeth out of the learned man / doth not only not make any thing for hym / but doth quite ouerthrow hys cauſe. For he ſayeth that our ſauiour Chriſt dyd not refuſe thys as a thing in it ſelfe vnlawfull / but becauſe it dyd not agree with hys vocation. Now the vocation of our ſauiour Chriſt / was to be a myniſter of the goſpell / therefore it doth not agree with the vocation of a myniſter of the goſpell to iudge or to entermeddle in cyuill gouernment. And if M. Doctor had bene ſo ſtudious of M. Caluins works / as by hys often allegation of hym / he woulde make the world beleue / he might hauehave * red in hym 4. li. Inſt. 11. cap.thys ſentence cited for thys purpoſe / to proue that the miniſters hauehave not to doe with ciuill things. Furthermore M. D. aſketh what S. Paules place to the Romanes (where he willeth that he which hath an office / muſt waite of that office 12. Rom. 7.he that teacheth of his teaching) maketh to thys purpoſe. Surely M. Doc. very much. Neither can there be a place more properly alledged / both for the very playnes of the words / & alſo for the circumſtāce of the place. For S. Paule ſpeaketh there agaynſt thoſe / which would ouerreach their callings / & hauing certeine callings / contented not them ſelues with them / but woulde hauehave an ore in eueryevery mans boate / and would take more vponupon them then they were able to doe / or the meaſure of theyr giftes would ſtretch vntounto. And therefore ſheweth / that as the body is beſt preſerued when eueryevery member thereof doth hys office / and deſtroyed when one member will take vponupon it to do the office of an other: ſo the church is then beſt gouerned / when eueryevery Eccleſiaſticall perſon keepeth hym ſelfe within the limits of hys calling / not medling with that which pertayneth vntounto an other. But M. Doctor ſayeth that the byſhoppe gouerneth as well by diſciplyne as by preaching: ſo he doth. But I pray you by what dyſciplyne? what a reaſon is thys / he gouerneth by diſcipline / ergo, by ciuill diſciplyne. You ſay in the next ſentence that the authors of the admonition either dote or dreame: But if theſe be your ſharpe diſputations / when you are awake? ſurely they are very blunt when you dreame. But I had rather iudge the beſt / that Maiſter Doctor was ouer-watched.
The laſt place which is alledged by the admonition / is out of the epiſtle to Tim. 2. Epiſt. 2. 4.where it ſheweth / that for ſo much as the eſtate of a miniſter / is as that of a ſouldier / & therfore as the ſouldyer / to the end he myght the better pleaſe hys captaine / & doe hys ſeruice of warfare / quitteth all thoſe things which he loueth / & whereof otherwyſe he might hauehave care / and might enioy: euen ſo the myniſter ought to diſpatch hym ſelfe of all thoſe things which may be any let to the office of hys myniſtery / although he might otherwiſe lawfully vſe thē. And if ſo be for the performing of ye miniſtery to the full / he muſt quite thoſe things which he may lawfully vſe / how much more might the admonition conclude that he ought not to entangle himſelfe with thoſe things / which (out of the places of S. Luke / and to the Romaines) it had ſhewed to be vnlawfull for hym to meddle with? And although M. D. ſay the ſentence be generall / yet it is particularly ment / and moſt properly of the myniſters / which Maiſter Caluin teacheth M. Doctor in the ſame place / where he hath cited hys authoritie twiſe to no purpoſe. For what although M. Caluin doe not there apply in preſcript words thys ſentence to proue that myniſters ought not to meddle with cyuill offices / doth it follow therefore that thys place can not be vſed thereto? In ſaying that he ought to abſtayne from all lets which may hinder his vocation & miniſtery / he doth cōſequently ſay / that he ought to abſtayne from all ciuill offices. And if ſo be M. Doct. had bene ſo well red in the auncient doctors (as he would ſeeme) he might hauehave knowen that thys place is vſed of * Cyprian / to the ſame purpoſe that it is alledged heere. For Cyprian 9. ep. 1. lib. e.ſpeaking agaynſt an elder which had taken vponupon him to be executor to one which was dead / alledgeth thys place. To theſe reaſons of the admonition / may be added that which the admonition hath in the. 230. page / that the regiment of the church is ſpirituall / and reſpecteth the conſcience / & therefore hath not to do with ciuill offices / which reſpect properly the common wealth / and the outward godly honeſt / and quiet behauior. And therefore their meaning is ▪ that as the ciuill gouernor doth vſe ſuch kinde of puniſhment as may bridle the outward man / & hold hym / that he dare not offende in the open breache of that godlynes / honeſty and quietnes which Saynt Paule commendeth vntounto vsus: ſo the Eccleſiaſticall regyment 1. Tim. 2. 2.doth vſe that kynde of dyſciplyne / whereby the conſience and inwarde man may bee kept in that willing obedyence vntounto Gods commaundement touching a godlye honeſt and quyet lyfe. And to note the diſtinction of theſe regymentes cyuill and ſpirituall / the place vntounto the Theſſalonyans is well alledged: 1. Theſ. 5. 12.for by the wordes (ſuche as rule ouer you in the Lord) the Apoſtle doth putte a difference beetweene the cyuill and eccleſiaſticall regymente. For albeit that godlye cyuill magiſtrates doe rule ouer vsus in the Lorde / yet Saynt Paule catexochen that is / by excellencye / aſcrybeth that vntounto the Eccleſiaſticall gouernoures / becauſe that whereas the cyuill magiſtrate beſyde hys care for the ſaluation of the ſoules of hys people / is occupyed in procuring alſo the wealth and quyetnes of thys lyfe: the Eccleſiaſticall gouernors hauehave all their whole care ſet vponupon that only ▪ which perteyneth to the lyfe to come. And to thys end alſo is alledged by the admonition / the place of Tim. wherein the apoſtle teacheth part of the eccleſiaſticall dyſciplyne which the myniſter may vſe / to conſiſt in reprehenſions and rebukes / which muſt be tempered according as the eſtate and age of eueryevery one doth require. Theyr meaning is not (as M. Doctor vntruely ſurmyſeth) to ſhut out the cyuill magiſtrate / or to debar hym of puniſhing the wicked / but that it appertayneth not vntounto the myniſters to deale that wayes / whoſe correction of faultes lyeth partly in reprehenſions and admonitions / which he ſpeaketh of there / partly in excommunication / wherof is ſpoken before. Further touching the place of the Epheſians / for ſo much as our ſauior Chriſt as he is head of hys church / is the ſpirituall gouernor thereof / it is meete that their gouernement which are appoynted vnderneath hym / as he is head / ſhoulde be lykewiſe ſpirituall / as hys is. For as for the cyuill magiſtrate / although hee be appoynted of Chriſt (as he is God) in which reſpect there is none aboue Chriſt / yet hee is not appoynted of hym / in reſpect that he is head of the church / in regarde wherof / God is aboue Chriſt / and as the apoſtle ſayeth / the head of hym.1. Cor. 11. 3.
Now that I hauehave ſhewed that the places quoted by the admonition / are for ye moſt part to the purpoſe of that they be quoted for / I wil adde a reaſon or two to thys pourpoſe / before I come to anſwer to thoſe reaſons which are brought by M. Doctor. Here I muſt deſire the reader to remember (which I ſayde before / when I ſpake agaynſt non reſidencie) the multitude & difficultie of thoſe things which are required of the myniſter of the word of God. And with all I wil leaue to the conſyderation of eueryevery one / the great infirmitie and weakenes which is in men / both the which conſyderations ſet together / it will eaſely appeare how vnmeete a thing it is / that the myniſter ſhoulde hauehave any other charge layde vppon hym / ſeeing that it being ſo wayghty an office / as will require all the gyftes he hath / be they neuer ſo great / it muſt needes fall out / that ſo much as he doth in an other calling / ſo much he leaueth vndone in thys. And what the hand of man is able to reach herein / it is to be conſidered in the apoſtles / whome if the office of the myniſtery dyd ſo wholy occupy and ſet a worke / that they could admyt no other charge with it / yea / & were fayne to caſt of that which they had / it is cleare that none of thoſe which lyue now / can beſyde that function / admytte any other publyke calling. The ſtory is knowen in the Actes / that the apoſtles euen during 6. Actes. 2.the tyme that they kept together at Ieruſalem / and taught the church there / were fayne / that they might the better attend vntounto preaching and praying / (by which two things S. Luke ſummarely ſetteth forth the office of the myniſtery) to geue ouer the charge of prouiding for the poore vntounto others / becauſe they were not hable to doe both. Now for ſo much as the Apoſtles endued with ſuch giftes as none hauehave bene ſince / or ſhalbe hereafter / coulde not diſcharge together with the office of the myniſter that alſo of the deacon / how ſhould any man be founde / that together with that office / can diſcharge the office of a ciuill magiſtrate? And if the Apoſtles would not hauehave the office of a Deacon / which was eccleſiaſticall / and therefore of the ſame kynde with the myniſtery ioyned vntounto it / how much leſſe will they ſuffer that the myniſtery ſhould be ioyned with a ciuill office / and therefore of an other kynde? For reaſon teacheth that there is an eaſyer mingling of thoſe which are of one kynd / then of thoſe which are of dyuers kyndes. Agayne / how can we iuſtly reproue the papiſtes for the vſe of both the ſwordes / ſpirituall / and materiall / when as we are found in the ſame fault our ſelues? And ſurely howſoeuer long cuſtome hath cauſed it to ſeme / yet in deede it is a very great and vntollerable confuſion / which may be the eaſelyer vnderſtanded / if ſo be we ſet before our eyes / how vncomely and diſordered it is / in the lyke / or rather in the very ſame caſe. For let vsus imagine the Mayor or Baylife of a towne / or the King or Emperor of the lande / to come into the pulpet / and make a ſermon / afterwarde to myniſter the Sacramentes / and from the Church to goe with the ſcepter in hys hand vntounto the place of iudgement: who would not be amaſed to ſee this / and wonder at it / as at a ſtraunge and monſtrous ſight? aſſuredly the ſelfe ſame deformity it is / when as the Myniſter of the word / is made a Iuſtice of peace / of Quorum / a Commyſſioner / an Earle / or any ſuch lyke / to whome the iudgement of matters pertayning to the courte of the ciuill Magiſtrate is committed: eſpecially ſeeing there are (God be prayſed) of the Nobilitie and gentry of the realme / that are able to diſcharge theſe offices much better / then theſe Eccleſiaſticall perſones to whome they are committed. And if ſo be that there fall out any queſtion at any tyme which is to be decided by the word of God / and wherein the aduiſe of the myniſter is needefull / there the myniſters helpe / may / and ought to bee required. For thereof we hauehave not only an example in Eſra / where the Princes in a matter of difficultie / came & aſked the counſell of Eſra / but we hauehave a plaine Eſra. 9. 1. De. 19. 17. 18.commaundement in Moſes by the Lord▪ who commaunded that the cauſe of pertury ſhould be heard before the Lord in the ſanctuary / at the hearing wherof the high prieſt ſhuld be preſent / by which commaundement the Lord doth not (by bringing thys cauſe into the ſanctuary) declare / that the iudgement therof dyd appertayne vntounto the Eccleſiaſticall court / but becauſe it being a matter which touched the glory of God very expreſly / hee woulde hauehave the Princes which were iudges there / to be the nearer touched / and the depelyer affected with the glory of God / whereof they ſaw the ſacrament before theyr eyes. Neyther is the hyghe prieſt commaunded to be preſent to thys ende / that he ſhould ſitte as iudge of that matter / but that he might diſſolue the difficulties / if any roſe of the vnderſtanding of the law / and that hee myght pricke forward and ſtyre vp by admonition / the Princes to whome the iudgement appertayned / if ſo bee he ſhould ſee them colde & ſlacke to reuenge the iniury done vntounto the Lorde. Which thing may the better appeare / in yt the handling of the matter / is there appoynted not vntounto the prieſtes / but vntounto the iudges or princes only / and ſo lykewyſe of matrimony and diuorſe / although the iudgement thereof appertayne vntounto the ciuill magiſtrate / yet the miniſter if there be any difficulty in knowing when it is a lawfull contract / & when the dyuorſe is lawfull / maye and ought to bee conſulted wyth. Thus may the common wealth and church enioy both the wyſedome & learning which is in the myniſter / & things may bee done in that order which God hath appoynted / without ſuche confounding and iombling of offyces and iuriſdictions together. For although Ariſtotles obeliſcolychnion, and Platoes dorydrepanon, that is / inſtrumentes ſeruing to two purpoſes / bee lawfull in offyces of the common wealth / where things are more free / and left in greater liberty to bee ordered at the iudgement and aduiſe of men / eſpecially conſydering that vppon the diuerſitye of the formes of common wealthes / varietie of regiment may ſpring: yet in the church of God where things are brought to a ſtrayghter rule / and which is but one and vniforme / the ſame may not bee ſuffered. And yet euen thoſe cōmon wealth Philoſophers which doe lycence vponupon occaſion that two offices may meete in one man / holde that it is beſt and conuenienteſt / that eueryevery one ſhoulde hauehave a particulare charge. For Ariſtotle ſayeth that it is moſt agreeable to nature / that hen ſhoulde be pros hen, that is / one inſtrument to one vſe. And Plato vſeth the Not Hercules hymſelfe agaynſt two.prouerbe mede heracleis pros duo, againſt thoſe which wil take vponupon them diuers vocations / and not content them ſelues with one / ſo that they make the meting of many functions in one man / to be a remedy only in extreme neede & pouerty of able men. And although both be vnlawfull / yet as the caſe ſtandeth in our realme / it is more tellerable that the ciuill magiſtrate ſhould doe the office of a miniſter / then that the miniſter ſhuld intermeddle with the function of the magiſtrate. For when the accountes ſhall be caſt / it will fall out / that there are more ſufficient & able men to ſerue in the common wealth of thys realme / then in the churche / and greater wante in the one then in the other. And if beſyde thys / both authoritie of the werd of God and lyght of reaſon / wee will looke vntounto the practiſe of the church many yeares after the time of the Apoſtles / we ſhall finde that the church hath bene very carefull from time to time / that thys order ſhould bee kept / that the miniſters ſhuld not entangle them ſelues with any thing beſide their miniſtery / and thoſe things which the word of God doth neceſſaryly put vponupon them / le…ſt the ſtrength of their minde & of their body / being diſtracted vntounto many thinges / they ſhould be the leſſe able to accompliſhe their miniſtery vntounto the full. Which may alſo partly appeare by that which I hauehave alledged out of Cyprian / which will not permit them ſo much as to bee executors of a Teſtament. And in one of the Canons whiche are aſcribed vntounto the Apoſtles it is enioyned that they Can. Apofl. 80.ſhould not entangle them ſelues with worldly offices / but attend vponupon their Eccleſiaſticall affaires.
Further / in the councell of Calcedon it was decreed / that none of the Tom. 2. con. Calced. can. 3.clearkes or cleargie (as it termeth them) ſhoulde receiue any charge of thoſe which are vnderunder age / vnleſſe they were ſuche as the lawes dyd neceſſarily caſt vponupon hym / which it calleth inexcuſable charges / meaning by all lykelyhoode / the wardſhyp of hys brothers children or ſome ſuche thing. Where is alſo declared the cauſe of that decree to hauehave beene / for that there were certeine myniſters which were ſtewardes to noble men. And in the. 7. canon of the ſame councell it is decreed / that none of the cleargy ſhould either goe to warfare as ſouldyers or captaynes / or ſhould receiue any ſecular honors / and if they dyd / they ſhoulde bee excommunicated or accurſed. Now I come to M. Doctors argumentes / which he bringeth to eſtabliſh thys diſorder.
And firſt he ſayeth myniſters of the word may not occupy them ſelues in wordly buſines / as to be marchants / huſbandmen / craftes men / and ſuch like / but they may exerciſe cyuill offices. Where firſt of all I perceiue M. Doctor is of thys mynde / that the order of God is not to be broken for ſmall gayne / or when a man muſt take great toyle of the body to breake it: but it may be broken with getting of honor / and doing of thoſe things which may be done with out ſoyle / & with great commendation / there it is lawfull to breake it. In deede ſo the Poete (but in the perſon of an vniuſt and ambition man / ) ſayd: ei chre adicein, tyrannidos heneca chre, that is. If a man muſt do vniuſtly / he muſt doe it to beare rule.
Secondarely I doe ſee that M. Doctor will not be ſhackled and hyndered from hys miniſtery by a paire of yron fetters / but if he can get a payre of golden fetters / he is contēted to be hampered and entangled / from doing the office of miniſtery committed vntounto hym. For onles theſe ſhould be the cauſes which ſhould moue hym to take the one / and refuſe the other / verely I ſee none. For where as he ſayth it is a helpe / & maynteineth relygion / in deede that is the reaſon of the papiſtes which M. Caluin confuteth in hys inſtitution. And although it be good 4. li. cap. 11.and neceſſary to puniſh vice and iniquity / by corporall puniſhmentes and by cyuill corrections: yet it doth no more follow that that ſhould be done by ye myniſters / then it followeth that for that preaching and myniſtring the ſacramentes and excommunication are good and neceſſary / therefore the ſame is fitte to be executed by the cyuill magiſtrate. I graunt the myniſters hauehave alſo to punyſhe vice / for as the cyuill magiſtrates puniſhe lyghter faultes with ſome penalty of money or loſſe of membre: ſo the churche and the myniſter eſpecially with the church / hath to puniſhe faultes by repreſions and rebukes. And as the cyuill magiſtrate puniſheth greater faultes by death: ſo the myniſter with other whiche hauehave intereſte / hath with the ſworde of excommunication power to kill thoſe which be rebellious / & to cut them from the church / as the other doth from the common wealth. And if it be a helpe to the myniſters office / that he ſhoulde meddle with ciuill puniſhmēts / why ſhuld it not be a helpe vntounto the magiſtrates office / that he ſhould excommunicate and other things pertayning to the eccleſiaſticall diſciplyne? And where as M. Doctor ſayth they may not be huſbandmen / crafts mē. &c. & yet may hauehave ciuil offices / I thinke far otherwiſe / that although neither be lawfull / yet the one were more tollerable then the other. For ſeing after the miniſtery of the word / there is no calling vnderunder the ſunne weightyer / and which requireth greater exerciſe of the mynde / then the office of the magiſtrate / it is agaynſt all reaſon to lay this heauy burthen vponupon a man that is already loden / and hath as much as he is able to beare. It were more equall / if they will needes adde vntounto the weyght of thys burthen / to lay ſome lyghter charge of exerciſing & handy craft / then to breake hys backe with the charge of a cyuill magiſtrate.
And whereas in the pollicy of M. Doctor it ſemeth a furtherance to the goſpell to ioyne theſe together which was alſo the pollicy of the Idolaters / (as I hauehave before declared) in the wiſedome of God it hath ſemed farre otherwyſe / which I doubt not dyd therfore ſeparate the miniſtery from thys pompe / whiche is commendable in the cyuill magiſtrate / leaſt the efficacy and power of the ſimplicitie of the word of God and of the myniſtery ſhould be obſcured / whileſt men would attribute the conuerſion of ſoules vntounto the goſpell (dew vntounto the worde and to the ſpirite of God) to theſe gloryous ſhewes. And leaſt whyleſt the mynyſter hauehave the woorde in one hande / and the ſword in the other / men ſhould not be able to iudge ſo well in their conſciences of the mighty operation of the worde of God in them. For they might doubt with them ſelues / whether the feare & out ward ſhew of the myniſter / caryed ſome ſtroke with them in beleuing the word.
But M. Doctor ſayeth / that cyuill offices are not to be counted worldly affayres / but heauenly and ſpirituall / it is ſo / and yet when they are compared with the eccleſiaſticall offices / they may be called ſecular offices / for ſo muche as they together with the care of relygion / procure and prouide for the things wherby we may quietly and commodiouſly lyue here / where the eccleſiaſticall offices are immediatly and only bent / to procure the glory of God and the ſaluation of men / and in that ſignification of heauenly & ſpirituall which you take / marchandyſe / huſbandry / and the handy craft be heauenly and ſpyrituall / although not in the ſame degree. All lawfull callinges came from God / & returne to hym agayne / that is / he is both author of them / and they ought to be referred to hys glory / ſo that if the myniſter may exerciſe all thinges which be heauenly / and ſpirituall / you may as well bring hym downe to the plough / as promote hym to the courte. And whereas M. Doctor ſayth that the office of a commiſſyoner is eccleſiaſticall / becauſe it handleth eccleſiaſticall cauſes / I meruayle that he is ſo ignorant / that he can not put a difference betweene geuing iudyciall ſentences / and appoynting bodely puniſhmentes (which are meere cyuill) and betweene the vnderſtanding the truth of eueryevery ſuch cauſe according as the worde of God defyneth of it: which is a thing common as wel vntounto the magiſtrate as vntounto the miniſter / and wherein the myniſter becauſe he ought to be moſt ready / ought (if neede be) conſulted with.
An other of Maiſter Doctors reaſons is / that as kinges doe ſerue Chriſt by making lawes for hym / ſo byſhoppes doe ſerue Chriſt by executing lawes for him. As though it pertayned not vntounto the magiſtrates to execute lawes / aſwell as to make them / and as if the magiſtrate were not therefore called a ſpeaking law / becauſe by executing them / he doth cauſe the lawes after a faſhion to ſpeake. Thys is to deuide the ſtake of the magiſtrate / betwene hym / and the byſhop / yea to geue the byſhoppe the beſt part of it. For wee know that with vsus / the people be at making of the lawes / which may not meddle with the execution of them. And if M. Doctor ſay that he meaneth not hereby to ſhut the prince from executing the lawes / then as hys ſimilytude (when it is at the beſt) proueth nothing: ſo by thys meanes it haltes downe ryght / and is no ſimylitude. As for Elie and Samuell they are extraordinary examples / which may thereby appeare / for that both theſe offices firſt meting in Melchiſedech / & afterward in Moſes / were by the commaundement of God ſeuered / when as the Lord toke from Moſes (being ſo wiſe & godly a man) the prieſthode / & gaue it to Aaron / and to hys ſucceſſors. And ſo / for ſo much as when the Lord would poliſhe hys church / & make it famous / & renoumed in the world / he gaue thys order: It appeareth that he wold hauehave this to be a perpetuall rule vntounto his church. And by ſo much it is the clearer / for that ye Lord did not tary vntil Moſes death / but toke the prieſthode away frō Moſes / which was a man as able to execute both / as eyther Elie / or Samuell. And thys may be alſo eaſely ſeene / for that in a maner alwayes / where there was any good and ſtayed eſtate of the churche / theſe offices were myniſtred by ſeuerall perſons / and then met & were mingled / when the eſtates were very ruinous and myſerable. And if thys be a good reaſon to proue that myniſters may exerciſe ciuill offices / it is as good a reaſon to proue / that princes may preach / and myniſter the ſacramentes. For if the myniſters may exerciſe ciuill offices / becauſe Elie / and Samuell (being myniſters) did ſo: the Princes / and Iudges may preach the word / and myniſter the ſacramentes / becauſe Elie and Samuell (being princes and iudges) dyd ſo. And ſo we ſee / how M. Doctor going about / to defende one confuſion / bringeth in an other.
As for Elias killing the falſe prophetes / and our ſauiour Chriſtes whipping out of the temple / it is ſtrange that Maiſter Doctor will alledge them / as thinges to be followed / when he may as well teach / that we may cal for fire from heauen / as Elias dyd / and being demaunded / anſwere nothing / as our ſauiour dyd: as to follow theſe actions which are moſt ſingular / and extraordinary. And if theſe one / or two examples be enough to breake the order that God hath ſet / by thys a man may proue / that the myniſters may be fyſhers / and tent makers / becauſe Ioh. 21. 3. Act. 18. 3.Peter / and Paule (being myniſters) dyd fyſhe and make tents. And truely theſe are not ſo extraordinary / and from the generall rule / as the other be. And it was permitted in a councell / that rather then a myniſter ſhould hauehave two benefices Tom. 3. concil. Nice. ca. 15./ he might labor with hys handes / to ſupply hys want withall. When S. Paule willed Tim. that he ſhould not receiue an accuſation agaynſt an elder / vnderunder two or three witneſſes / he dyd commit nothing les / then any ciuill office vntounto hym. And M. Doctor hym ſelfe hath alledged it before / as a thing incident to the office of a byſhop: and therefore he doth forget hymſelfe maruellouſly now / that maketh thys a ciuill office.
And doth M. Doctor thincke / that S. Paule made magiſtrates? Or is he of that iudgement / that the church in the tyme of perſecution / may make ciuill officers? But it is true / that he that is once ouer the ſhoes / ſticketh not to run ouer hys bootes.
And laſt of all to proue that byſhoppes may hauehave priſons / hee citeth Peter which punyſhed Ananias / and Saphira with death. M. Doctor muſt vnderſtand that thys was Eccleſiaſticall power / and was done by vertue of that function / which S. Paule calleth dynamin, which is one of thoſe functions that the 1. Cor. 12. 28.Lord placed in hys church for a tyme. But is thys a good argument / becauſe S. Peter puniſhed with the word / therefore the myniſter may punyſhe with the ſworde? And becauſe S. Peter dyd ſo once / therefore the byſhop may doe ſo alway? & becauſe S. Peter dyd that / which appertayneth to no ciuill magiſtrate / and which no ciuill magiſtrate / by any meanes may / or can doe / therefore the myniſter may doe that / which appertayneth vntounto the ciuill magiſtrate? For if there had bene a ciuill magiſtrate / the ſame could not hauehave punyſhed thys fault of diſſimulation / which was not knowen / nor declared it ſelfe by any outwarde action. So that if thys example proue any thing / it proueth that the myniſter may doe / that no man may doe / but the Lord only / which is to punyſh faultes that are hyd / and vnknowne. If thys be ignoraunce / it is very groſſe / & if it be agaynſt knowledge / it is more daungerous. I hauehave determyned with my ſelfe / to leaue vntounto M. Doctor hys outcries and declamations / and if I ſhould hauehave vſed them / as often as he geueth occaſion / there would be no end of wryting. The Lord geue M. Doctor eyther better knowledge / or better conſcience.
VntoUnto M. Doctor / aſking where it appeareth that pope Eugenius brought in pryſons into the church / as alſo vntounto three or foure ſuch like demaunds which hee maketh in thys booke / the authors of the Admonition anſweare at once / that thys and the other are ſounde in Pantaleon and M. Bales Chronicles. Heere I will take in that / whych the byſhop of Saleſbury hath in the laſt page of hys halfe ſheete touching thys matter.
And firſt of all I wel agree / that he ſayth / that to geue vntounto ſathan (which is to excommunicate / and to correct an Eccleſiaſticall perſon by reprehenſyon / or putting hym out of the miniſterye / if the caſe ſo require) is meere eccleſiaſticall / and not ciuill / and that thoſe thyngs ought to be done of the offycers of ye church. Thys only I deny / that the miniſters ought to meddle wyth ciuill offyces. For proofe whereof / the B. alledgeth the example of Auguſtine / whych as Poſſidonius wryteth / was troubled wyth the hearing & determinyng of cauſes. Wherin Poſſidonius ſayeth nothyng / but that I willingly agree vntounto. For the miniſter wyth the elders / ought bothe to heare / and determine of cauſes / but of ſuche cauſes / as pertaine vntounto their knowledge / whereof I hauehave ſpoken before. And that Poſſidonius ment ſuch cauſes as belonged vntounto Auguſtin / as he was a miniſter / and not of ciuill affaires / it appeareth by that whych he wryteth immediatly after / where he ſayth. Being alſo conſulted of / by certen in their worldly affaires / he wrote epiſtles to diuers / but he accompted of thys / as of compulſyon / and reſtraint from hys better buſyneſſes: whereby it appeareth / that S. Auguſtine medled not wyth thoſe worldly affaires / further / then by waye of giuing counſell / whych is not vnlawful for a miniſter to do / as one friend vntounto an other / ſo that hys myniſterye be not thereby hindered. And for the truthe of thys matter / that miniſters ought not to meddle wyth ciuill affaires / I will appeale to no other / then to the byſhop hym ſelfe / who dothe affirme plainly the ſame / that the The byſhop of Sarum / in the defence of the Apollogie / in the. 5. part. 4. chap. and. 2. ſection. 1. Pet. 4. 15.admonition heere affirmeth.
And therfore I conclude / that for ſo much as bothe the holy ſcriptures doe teache / that miniſters oughte not to meddle wyth ciuill offyces / and reaſon / and the practiſe of the church doe confirme it / that they ought to kepe thēſelues within the limites of the miniſterye / and Eccleſiaſticall functions / leaſt whileſt they breake forthe into the calling of a magiſtrate / in ſteade of ſhewing themſelues epiſcopous, that is ouerſeers / they be found to declare themſelues * allotriopiſcopous, that is: buſy bodyes / medling in thyngs whych belong not vntounto them. And thus putting them in remembrance of that whych they knowe well enoughe / that they ought coſman ſparten hen elachon, that is to ſay: ſtudye to adorne that charge whych they take in hande / and doe profeſſe / I leaue to ſpeake any further of thys matter.
VntoUnto the two next ſections I hauehave ſpoken in that whych hathe bene ſayde touchyng excommunication / canons / and prebendaries. &c. and vntounto that whych is contained in the. 226. and. 227. I anſwere that I can not excuſe couetous patrones of benefices / but couetous parſons and vicars be a great plague vntounto this church / and one of the principall cauſes of rude and ignorant people.
Lykewiſe vntounto the two next ſectiōs I hauehave anſweared before / in ſpeaking againſt the ſpirituall courts / whych are now vſed / and vntounto the next after that / in ſpeaking of the ordayning of miniſters. And vntounto that whych is contained in the later ende of the. 234. and the beginning of the. 235. I ſay that the church ſhall iudge of the aptnes or vnaptnes of our reaſons / and albeit we do finde fault with diuers thyngs in the booke / yet we neyther oppugne as enemyes / nor are by the grace of God eyther Papiſts / Anabaptiſts / Atheiſts / or Puretanes / as it pleaſeth M. Doctor to call vsus. And to the prayer agaynſt diſturbers of the churche / I ſay wyth all my heart. Amen.
VntoUnto the next ſection I hauehave anſweared in the treatiſe of the apparell. And vntounto the next after / in the treatiſe whych declareth to whome it doth appertaine to make ceremonyes and orders of the church. And vntounto the ſection contained in the. 243. page / I ſay that M. Doctor being aſked of Oynions / anſweareth of garlike. For the authors of the admonition / deſyring that it myght be as lawful for them to publiſhe by Printe their mindes / or to be heard diſpute / or that theyr minde put in wryting / myghte be openly debated / maiſter D. anſweareth wyth Auguſtines ſentence (whych he hath made the foote of hys ſong) nothing to the purpoſe of that whych they ſaid / the performance of which promiſe / we wil notwythſtanding wayte for.