A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 45
To the next ſection I hauehave anſweared before / where I hauehave entreated of churchyng women / and of prayer / it foloweth to ſpeake vntounto that / in the. 205. and. 206. pa.
TO pas by the prophane prouerbe here vſed / which matcheth mad men & women / & children togither / moſt vnſemely for a D. of diuinity / eſpecially handling diuine matters: for the ſinging of pſalmes by courſe / and ſide after ſide / although it be very auncient / yet it is not commēdable / and ſo much the more to be ſuſpected / for that the deuil hath gone about to get it ſo great authority / partly Socrat. 6. lib. 8. cap. Platina cap. Damaſ. Theodo. 2. lib. 24. cap.by deriuing it from Ignatius time / and partly in making the world beleue / that thys came from heauen / and that the angels were heard to ſing after thys ſorte / whych as it is a mere fable / ſo is it confuted by hyſtoriographers / whereof ſome aſcribe the begynning of thys to Damaſus / ſome other vntounto Flauianus & Diodorus. Frō whēce ſo euer it came / it can not be good / conſidering that when it is graūted y• all the people may praiſe God (as it is in ſinging of pſalmes) there this ought not to be reſtrained vntounto a few / & wher it is lawful both wt hart and voyce to ſing the whole pſalme / there it is not mete yt they ſhould ſing but the one halfe wyth their heart and voice / and the other with their heart only. For where they may both wyth heart and voice ſing / there the heart is not enough. Therfore beſides the incommodity whych commeth thys way / in that being toſſed after thys ſort / men can not vnderſtande what is ſong / theſe other two inconueniences come of thys forme of ſinging / and therfore is banyſhed in all reformed churches.
VntoUnto two very good reaſons whych the admonition vſeth / to ſhewe the inconnenience of making curteſy / and ſtāding at the name of Ieſus / and at the goſpell / rather then at other names of God / and the reſt of the ſcripture: wherof the one is / that it is againſt decencye and good order whych is broken by ſcraping of the feete / and the other y• it may brede a dangerous opinion of the inequality either of the ſonne of God with the other perſons / or of the goſpels wt other ſcriptures / M. doctor ſayth y• it is an indifferent thyng / and neyther taketh away their reaſons / nor ſetteth down any of hys own: thys is a ſlēder defence. And it is no malicious dealing / to note thoſe faults whych are ſo generall & ſo open / & yet notwt ſtanding vncorrected or vnreformed by thoſe / by whom M. d. wold make vsus beleue / yt the church is beſt gouerned. But I pray you tel me / why do you cōdemn the ſeruing of two cures / ye alow the hauing of two benefices? If it be no fault to hauehave two benefices / how is it one to hauehave two cures? for ye curate is better able to read hys ſeruice in .ij. places / thē the paſtor to diſcharge his office in .ij. churches. As for ye ſpeche of ye cathedral churches / either it is nothing / or els it is falſ. For if he ſay y• ther is either in al thoſe cathedral churches one / or in eueryevery of thoſe. 12. churches one / which is able to cōfute papiſts. &c. what great thing ſaith he / which ſayeth no more of all theſe churches / then is to be found in one poore houſe of the vniuerſity / whoſe rents are ſkarce three hundred pound by yeare? yea what hath he ſayd of them whych was not to be founde in them euen in Queenes Maryes tyme / when there was yet ſome one almoſte in euerye Churche / whych for feare diſſemblyng / was able notwythſtanding to confute the Papiſtes / Anabaptiſtes / Puritanes. And if he meane that in thoſe .xij. houſes / the worſt of the Prebendaries are hable to defend the truth agaynſt all Papiſts. &c. all men do know the vntruthe of it / ſo that althoughe thys ſentence be very doubtfully put forthe / yet how ſo euer it be taken / it is as M. Doctor hath ryghtly termed it / a mere brag. And yet I doubt not / and am well aſſured / that there be diuers godly learned men whych hauehave lyuings in thoſe places / but for all that they ceaſe not therefore to be dennes of loyterors and idle perſones / whyleſt there are nouryſhed there ſome whych ſerue for no profitable vſe in the church (their offyces being ſuche as bryng no commoditye / but rather hurte / of whych numbre certen are whych the Admonition ſpeaketh of in the. 224. page:) ſome other which hauing charges in other places vnderunder the coloure of their prebendes there / abſent them ſelues from them: and that whych they ſpoyle and rauen in other places / there they ſpend and make good cheare wyth / and therfore not wythout good cauſe called dennes. Finally / there being nothyng there / whych might not be much better applied / and to the greater commodity of the churche / whyleſt they myght be turned into colledges / where yong men myght be brought vp in good learning / & made fitte for the ſeruice of the church and common wealthe / the vniuerſities being not able to receyue that numbre of ſcholers / wherwyth their neede may be ſupplyed.
And where M. Doctor ſayth / that that whych is ſpoken of the Queenes maieſtyes chappell / is worthy rather to be punyſhed then confuted: if ſo be that theſe be abuſes / the example of them in her maieſties chappell / can not be but moſt daungerous / whych wyth all humble ſubmiſſion and reuerence / I beſeeche her maieſty duely to conſider.
And as for the reaſons which M. doctor bringeth to eſtabliſhe them in the 225. page / as that they are neceſſary (whych he doth barely ſay) and that ſ. Aug. alloweth of a Deane / and that the authors of the Admonition are inſtruments of thoſe whych deſire the ſpoile of them / and that a man may as well ſpeake againſt vniuerſities & colledges / as againſt them / I hauehave anſweared before / ſauing that it is to be feared / that colledges in vniuerſities (if M. doctor may worke y• which he goeth about) wil ſhortly be in little better caſe / then thoſe cathedral churches / whych not only by hys own example / but wyth might and maine / and al endeuor poſſyble / goeth about to fill and fraught them wyth Non reſidences, and ſuche as hauehave charges of churches in other places: whych do no good in the vniuerſitye / and partly are ſuch as can do none / only are pernicious examples of riotous feaſting and making greate cheare / wyth the prayes and ſpoyles whych they bryng out of the country to the great hurt of the vniuerſity preſently / and vtter ruine of it hereafter / onles ſpedy remedy be therfore prouided. And wher he ſayth it is not material / although theſe deanes / vicedeanes / canons / peticanōs / prebēdaries. &c. come from the pope / it is as if he ſhoulde ſaye / that it ſkilleth not although they come out of the bottomles pit. For whatſoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichriſt / commeth firſt from the deuill: and where he addeth thys condition (if it be good. &c.) in deede if of the egges of a cockatrice can be made holeſome meate to feede with / or of a ſpiders webbe any cloth to couer with all / then alſo may the things that come from the Pope and the Deuill / be good / profitable / and neceſſary vntounto the church. And where he ſayeth that collegiate churches are of great auncientie / he proueth not the auncientie of the cathedrall churches / onles he proue that cathedrall and collegiate be all one. But I will not ſticke wyth hym for ſo ſmall a matter / & if our controuerſy were of the names of theſe churches / and not of the matter / I could be content to graunt hys cauſe in this poynt as good as antiquitie without the word of God (which is nothing but rottennes) could make it. But for ſo much as thoſe auncient collegiate churches were no more lyke vntounto theſe which we hauehave now / then things moſt vnlyke: our cathedrall churches hauehave not ſo much as thys olde worne cloke of antiquity / to hide theyr nakednes / and to keepe out the ſhoure. For the collegiate churches in times paſt were a ſenate Eccleſiaſticall / ſtanding of godly learned myniſters & elders / which gouerned and watched ouer that flocke which was in the citie or towne where ſuche churches were / and for that in ſuche great cities and townes commonly there were the moſt learned paſtors and auncientes / therefore the townes and villages rounde about in hard and difficult cauſes / came and had their reſolutions of theyr doubtes at theyr handes: euen as alſo the Lord commaunded in Deuteronomie / that when there was any great matter in the countrey / which Deut. 17. 8. 9.the Leuites in matters pertayning to God / and the Iudges in matters pertayning to the common wealth / could not diſcuſſe / that then they ſhould come to Ieruſalem / where there was a great numbre of Prieſtes / Leuites / and learned Iudges / of whome they ſhould hauehave their queſtions diſſolued / and thys was the firſt vſe of collegiate churches. Afterward the honor which the ſmaller churches gaue vntounto them / in aſking them counſell / they tooke vntounto them ſelues / and that which they had by the curteſy and good will proceeding of a reuerent eſtimation of them / they dyd not only take vntounto them of right / but alſo poſſeſſed them of all authority of hearing and determyning any matters at all. And in the ende they came to thys which they are now / which is a company that hauehave ſtrange names and ſtrange offyces / vnhearde of of all the purer churches / of whome the greateſt good that wee can hope of is / that they doe no harme. For although there be dyuers which doe good / yet in reſpect that they bee Deanes / Prebendaries / Canons / Petycanons. &c. for my part / I ſee no profite but hurte come to the church by them.
And where hee ſayeth they are rewardes of learning / in deede then they ſhould be / if they were conuerted vntounto the mayntenance and bringing vp of ſcholers / where now for the moſt part / they ſerue for fat morſels to fill (if it might be) the gredy appetites of thoſe / which otherwyſe hauehave enough to lyue with / and for holes and dennes to keepe them in / which eyther are vnworthy to be kept at the charge of the church / or elſe whoſe preſence is neceſſary and duetifull in other places / and for the moſt part vnprofitable there.
Laſt of all / whereas M. Doctor ſayeth that we hauehave not to follow other churches / but rather other churches to follow vsus / I hauehave anſweared before / thys only I adde / y• they were not counted only falſe Prophets which taught corrupt doctryne / but thoſe which made the people of God beleeue / that they were happy when they were not / and that their eſtate was very good / when it was corrupt. Of the which kynde of falſe prophecie / Ieremy eſpecially doth complayne. And Iere. 6. 14. Iere. 8. 11.therefore onles M. Doctor amend hys ſpeach / & leaue thys crying peace / peace / all is wel / when there are ſo many things out of order / and that not by the iudgement of ye admonition & fauorers therof only / but euē of al which are not willingly blind / I ſay if he do not amend theſe ſpeches / the crime of falſe propheſy will ſit cloſer vntounto him / thē he ſhalbe euer able to ſhake of / in the terrible day of the lord.