A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 39 – Part 43
VntoUnto the. 149. and. 150. pages.
THe Admonition hath no ſuch thing / as M. Doctor chargeth the authors thereof with / that they dyd euer allow of the booke of ſeruice. It ſayeth they bare with it / and vſed it ſo farre / as they might / and therefore now when it came to the approuing of it by ſubſcription / they refuſed / & there is no man which can not vnderſtand / that it is one thing to beare with a thing / and an other to approue it / and therefore to beare / and to vſe it ſo farre as might be / may well agree with their refuſall of ſubſcription / ſo that M. Doctors note is not worth the noting. The Apoſtles dyd beare with the infirmitie of the Iewes addicted to the obſeruation of the ceremoniall law / yet they neuer alowed that infirmitie / and they were ſo farre from approuing it by ſubſcribing / that they wrote agaynſt it. Thoſe (ſayth M. D. which authorized thys booke / were ſtudious of peace / and of building of Chriſtes church / therefore they that ſpeake agaynſt it (which hee calleth defacing) are diſturbers of the peace / and deſtroyers of the church. So I will reaſon: Gedeon was ſtudious of peace / and of building of the churche / therefore they whiche ſpake agaynſt the Ephod which he made / were diſturbers of the peace / and deſtroyers of the church. We ſpeake agaynſt images in churches / and conſubſtantiation in the ſacramentes / and ſuch lyke / which Luther being ſtudious of peace / and of the building of the church dyd holde / and yet we are not therfore diſturbers of peace / or deſtroyers of the church. Although they were excellent perſonnages / yet their knowledge was in part / & although they brought many things to our light / yet they being ſent out in the morning / or euer the ſunne of the goſpell was ryſen ſo hygh / might ouerſee many things which thoſe that are not ſo ſharpe of fight / as they were / may ſee / for becauſe that which they want in the ſharpnes of ſight / they hauehave by the benefite and cleareneſſe of the ſun and of the light. They ſealed not the booke of ſeruice with their bloud (as M. Doctor ſayeth) for ſome that ſuffred for the truth / declared openly theyr myſlyking of certayne thinges in it / and as for the other they coulde neuer dye for that booke / more then for the lyturgie vſed in the Frenche churche / or at Geneua. For they receiued not the ſentence of condemnation / becauſe they approued that booke / but becauſe they improued the articles drawne out of the maſſe booke. And if they had dyed for that booke (as in deede they dyed for the booke of God) yet the authoritie of theyr martyrdome / coulde not take away from vsus thys lyberty that we hauehave to enquire of the cauſe of theyr death. Iuſtin and Cyprian were godly martyrs / & yet a man may not ſay / that they ſealed their errors which they wrote with theyr bloud / or with thys glory of their martyrdome / preiudice thoſe which ſpeake or wryte agaynſt their erroures: for thys is to oppoſe the bloud of men / to the bloud of the ſonne of God. For the papiſtes triumph I hauehave anſweared before / and I will not ſtriue about the Goates wolle / who is the opponent / & who the reſpondent in thys difference.
From the. 151. page vntounto the. 171. page / all is anſweared where theſe things which are heere ioyned / are ſeuerally handled / now vntounto that in the. 171. and. 172. pages.
I anſwere / ye although it be meete / that as we hope that the homylies which are made already be godly / ſo thoſe that ſhall be made hereafter / ſhall be lykewiſe: yet conſidering the mutabilitie of men / and that oftentymes to the worſe / it is not meete / nay it is merely vnlawfull / to ſubſcribe to a blancke / ſeeing that wee can not witneſſe or allow of thoſe things which we hauehave not ſene nor heard. The place vntounto the Corinthes / is the ſame vntounto the Romanes / and M. Doctor approuing one / hath no cauſe to fynde fault with the other. For the homylies firſt of all I hauehave ſhewed / how abſurde a ſaying / and how vnlyke a dyuine it is / to match reading of homylies / with preaching of ſermons. For if the reading of the holy ſcriptures is nothing ſo fruitefull as the preaching of them / muche leſſe is the reading of homylies to be for their frute matched with preaching of ſermons. There remayneth that I ſhew briefely / that neyther the homylies nor the Apochripha / are at all to be red in the churche. Wherein firſt it is good to conſider the order which the Lorde kept with hys people in tymes paſt / when he commaunded Exod. 30. 29.that no veſſell / nor no inſtrument eyther beeſome / or fleſh hooke / or pan. &c. ſhuld come into the temple / but thoſe only which were ſanctifyed / & ſette apart for that vſe. And in the booke of Numbers / he will hauehave no other trumpets blowne Numb. 10. 2.to cal ye people together / but thoſe only which were ſet apart for y• purpoſe. What ſhould the meaning of thys law be? The matter of other common veſſels & trumpets / was the ſame oftentimes which theirs was / the ſame forme / alſo & the other beeſomes and hookes / and trumpets hable to ſerue for the vſes of ſweeping and ſounding. &c. as well as thoſe of the temple / and as thoſe which were ſet aparte / wherfore mought not theſe then as well be vſed in the temple as others? Forſothe / becauſe the Lord would by theſe rudiments and pedagogie teache / that he would hauehave nothing brought into the church / but that which he had appoynted / no not althoughe they ſeemed in the iudgement of men / as good as thoſe things which God him ſelfe had placed there. Which thing is much more to be obſerued in this matter / ſeeing that the homilies red (be they neuer ſo learned and pithye) neyther the Apochrypha / are to be compared either in goodnes within thēſelues / eyther in frute or in effect towardes the hearer / wyth the authenticall ſcriptures of God. Now / if a man will ſay that the Homilies do explane & lay open the ſcriptures / Pſal. 19. 7. Prou. 1. 4.I anſwer that the word of God alſo is plain and eaſy to be vnderſtanded / and ſuch as giueth vnderſtanding to idiotes & to the ſimple. And if there be hardnes in them / yet the promiſe of the aſſiſtance of Gods ſpirite / that God hath giuen to the reading of the ſcriptures in the church / whych he hath not giuen to homilies / or to the Apochrypha / will be able to weigh wyth the hardnes / and to ouercome it / ſo that there ſhall eaſely appeare greater profit to come vntounto ye church by reading of the ſcriptures / then by reading of homilies.
Beſides thys / the pollicy of the church of God in times paſt is to be folowed herein / that for the expounding of darker places / places of more eaſines ought to be ioyned together / as in ye perſecutiō of Antiochus / wher they could not hauehave the commodity of preaching / the Iewes dyd appoynt at their meetings alwayes a peece of the law to be red / & with all a peece of the prophets whych expounded y• peece of the lawe / rather then to bring in interpretations of men to be red. And becauſe I am entred into that matter / heere cometh to be conſidered the practiſe alſo of the church both before our ſauior Chriſtes comming / and after / that when Actes. 13. 15. Actes. 15. 21.the churches met together / there is nothing mentioned but the reading of ye ſcriptures / for ſo is the Lyturgie deſcribed in the Actes. And it is not to be thought / but that they had thoſe whych made expoſitiōs of the law and the prophets. And beſydes that / they had Onkelos the Calday paraphraſt / bothe Galatine / & Rabby Moſes (ſurnamed Maymon) write / that Ionathan an nother of the Calday paraphraſts floryſhed in oure ſauyor Chriſtes tyme / whoſe wrytings and paraphraſes vponupon the ſcryptures / are eſtemed comparable in that kinde of paraphraſticall wryting / wyth any whych hath laboured that wayes. And if any mennes wrytings were to be red in the church / thoſe paraphraſes whych in explanyng ye ſcrypture / go leaſt from it / and whych kepe not only the numbre of ſentences / but almoſt the very numbre of words / were of all moſt fitte to be red in the churche. Seeing therfore (I ſay) the church of God then abſtained from ſuch interpretations in the church / and contented it ſelfe wyth the ſcryptures / it can not be but a moſte dangerous attempt / to bryng any thyng into the church to be red beſydes the word of God. Thys practiſe continued ſtill in the churches of God after the apoſtles times / as may apeare by the ſecond Apologie of Iuſtin Martyr / which ſheweth that theyr manner was to read in the church the monuments of the prophets and of the apoſtles / and if they had red any thyng elſe / it is to be ſuppoſed that he would hauehave ſet it downe / conſydering that hys purpoſe there / is to ſhewe the whole order whych was vſed in their churches then. The ſame may appear in the firſt Homilye of Oregine vponupon Exodus / and vponupon the Iudges. And as for M. Bucers authoritye / I hauehave ſhewed before how it ought to be wayghed / & heere alſo it is ſuſpitious: for that it is ſayd that hys aduiſe was / when the lord ſhould bleſſe the realme wyth moe learned preachers / that then order ſhould be taken to make more homilyes / whych ſhould be red in the church vntounto the people: As if M. Bucer dyd not know / that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme / whych were able to make homilies / ſo many as the volume of them myght eaſely hauehave exceeded the volume of the Byble / if the multytude of homilyes would hauehave done ſo much good. And if the authority of M. Bucer beare ſo great a ſway wyth M. Doctor / that vponupon hys credite only wythout eyther ſcripture or reaſon / or examples of the Churches primitiue / or thoſe whych are now / he dare thruſt into the church homilies / then the authorities of the moſt ancient & beſt councels ought to hauehave ben conſidered / whych hauehave geuen charge / that nothyng ſhould be red in the church / but only the canonicall ſcriptures. For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea / ye nothing ſhuld be red in the church / 59. can. concil. Laod. Tom. 1. concil. Conc. Valenſe. 1. Tom.but the canonicall bokes of the olde and newe teſtament / and reckeneth vp what they be. Afterward as corruptions grew in the church / it was permitted that homilies myght be red by the deacon / when the miniſter was ſicke / and coulde not preach / and it was alſo in an other councel of Carthage permitted / that the martyrs liues might be red in the church. But beſides the euill ſucceſſe that thoſe decrees had (vnderunder pretence wherof the popiſhe legende / and Gregories homilies. &c. crept in) that vſe and cuſtome was controlled by other councels / as may appeare by the coūcell of Colen / albeit otherwyſe popiſhe. And truely if there were 4. Tom. concil. 6. c. concil. Colon. parte. 2.nothing elſe but thys conſideration / that the bringing in of the reading of Martyrs liues into the church / and of the homilies of auncient wryters / hath not only by thys meanes iuſtled wt the Bible / but alſo thruſt it cleane out of the church / or into a corner where it was not redde nor ſeene / it ought to teach all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God / be they neuer ſo well learned / as long as the world ſhould endure.
And if any man obiect / that by thys meanes alſo is ſhut out of the churche the forme of ordinary prayers to be ſayd: I ſay the caſe is nothing lyke / for when we pray we can not vſe the words of the ſcripture / as they orderly lie in the text. But for ſo muche as the churche prayeth for diuers thyngs neceſſarye for it / the whych are not contained in one or two places of the ſcripture / and that alſo there are ſome thyngs whych we hauehave neede of / whereof there is no expreſſe prayer in the ſcripture: it is needefull / that there be a forme of Prayer drawne forthe out of the ſcrypture / whych the church may vſe when it meeteth / as the occaſyon of the time dothe require / whych neceſſity can not be by no meanes alledged in the reading of Homilies or Apochrypha. Wherevpon appeareth that it is not ſo wel ordained in the churche of Englande / where bothe Homilies and Apochrypha are red / eſpecially when as diuers chapters of the bookes called Apocrypha / are lyfted vp ſo high / that they are ſometime appoynted for extraordinary leſſons vponupon feaſtes dayes / wherin the greateſt aſſemblies be made / and ſome of the chapters of the canonicall ſcripture (as certen chapters of the Apocalipſe) quite left oute and not red at all.
VntoUnto the two next ſections I hauehave anſweared before / where I hauehave entreated of holy dayes / and of kneeling at the Communion / it followeth to ſpeake vntounto the ſection contained in the. 183. and. 184. pages.
ALthough it will be hard for you to proue that thys worde (prieſt) commeth of the Greke word (preſbyteros) yet that is not the matter / but the caſe ſtā deth in thys / that for ſo much as the common and vſuall ſpeach of England is / to note by the word (prieſt) not a miniſter of the goſpel / but a ſacrificer (which the miniſter of the goſpell is not) therefore we ought not to call the miniſters of the goſpell (prieſts) and that thys is the Engliſhe ſpeache / it appeareth by all the Engliſh tranſlations / whych tranſlate alwayes (hiereis) whych were ſacrificers (prieſts) and do not of the other ſyde (for any that euer I red) tranſlate preſbyteron, a prieſt. Seeing therfore a prieſt wyth vsus / and in our tonge / dothe ſignifye both by the papiſtes iudgement in reſpect of their abhominable maſſe / and alſo by the iudgement of the proteſtant in reſpect of the beaſts whych were offered in the law / a ſacrificing office (whych the miniſter of the goſpell neyther dothe nor can execute) it is manifeſt / that it can not be wythout great offence ſo vſed.
The next three ſections I hauehave before anſweared / wher I hauehave ſpoken of the abuſes in baptiſme / croſſing / and interrogatories / it foloweth to ſpeake vntounto the ſection contained in. 194. 195. &. 196. pa.
IF it be M. Bucers iudgement whych is alledged heere for the ring / I ſee that ſometimes Homere ſleapeth. For firſt of all I hauehave ſhewed / that it is not lawfull to inſtitute new ſignes and ſacraments / and then it is dangerous to doe it / eſpecially in this whych confirmeth the falſe and popyſhe opinion of a ſacrament / as is alledged by the admonition. And thirdly / to make ſuche fonde allegories of the laying downe of the money / of the roundnes of the ring / and of the myſtery of the fourth finger / is (let me ſpeake it wyth hys good leaue) very ridiculous and farre vnlike hym ſelfe. And fourthly / that he wil hauehave the miniſter to preach vponupon theſe toyes / ſurely it ſauoreth not of the learning and ſharpnes of the iudgement of M. Bucer. And wheras M. doctor / vponupon that ſ. Peter willeth the huſbands to geue honor to their wiues / wold approue this manner of ſpeach in matrimony (wyth my body I thee worſhyp) he muſt vnderſtād that it is one thing wyth vsus to worſhip / and an other thing to honor. For we honor men whych we do not worſhyp / and beſides that S. Peter ſpeaketh of the honor of the mynde / wherby the huſband ſhuld be moued to beare wyth the infirmities of his wife / & therfore it is vnfitly alleaged / to proue that he may worſhip her with his body.
As for the receiuing of the Communion when they be marryed / that it is not to be ſuffered (onles there be a generall receiuing) I hauehave before at large declared / and as for the reaſon that is fathered of M. Bucer / (whych is / that thoſe that be Chriſtians / maye not be ioyned in maryage / but in Chriſte.) It is verye ſlender and cold / as if the ſacrament of the ſupper were inſtituted to declare any ſuch thyng / or they could not declare their ioyning togither in Chriſt by no meanes / but by receyuing the ſupper of the Lorde.
To the next ſection in the. 197. page.
TEll me M. doctor why there ſhould be any ſuch confirmation in the church / being brought in by the fained Decretall Epiſtles of the Popes / and no one tittle therof being once found in the ſcrypture / and ſeeing that it hath bene ſo horribly abuſed / and not neceſſary / why ought it not to be vtterly abolyſhed? and thirdly / thys confirmation hath very dangerous poynts in it. The firſt ſteppe of popery in thys confirmation / is the laying on of hands vponupon the head of ye childe / wherby the opinion of it / that it is a ſacrament is confirmed / eſpecially when as the prayer dothe ſaye / that it is done according to the example of the Apoſtles / whych is a manifeſt vntruthe / and taken in deede from the popiſh confirmation. The ſeconde is / for that the byſhop (as he is called) muſt be the only miniſter of it / wherby the popiſhe opinion whych eſteemeth it aboue baptiſme is confirmed. For whileſt baptiſme may be miniſtred of the miniſter / and not cōfirmation / but only of the byſhop / there is great cauſe of ſuſpition geuen to thinke / that baptiſme is not ſo precious a thing as confirmation: ſeeing thys was one of the principall reaſons / wherby that wicked opinion was eſtablyſhed in popery. I do not heere ſpeake of the inconuenience / that mē are conſtrained with charges / to bryng their childrē oftentimes halfe a ſcore miles for that (which if it were nedeful) might be as wel done at home in their owne pariſhes. The thirde is / for y• … the allegation of the ſeconde cauſe of the vſing of the confirmation / the boke ſayeth / that by the impoſition of hands and prayer / the chyldren may receyue ſtrengthe and defence agaynſt all temptations / whereas there is no promyſe / that by the laying on of hands vponupon chyldren / any ſuche gyfte ſhall be geuen / and it maintayneth the popyſhe diſtinction / that the ſpirite of God is geuen at baptiſme vntounto the remiſſyon of ſynnes / and in confirmation vntounto ſtrength / the whych very worde (ſtrength) the booke alledgeth / and all thys M. Doctor confuteth by callyng of the authors Lomb. lib. 4. Diuiſ. 7.of the admonition peeuiſh and arrogant.