A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 3
An anſwere to the exhortation to the eyuill Magiſtrates.
IT is more thē I thought could hauehave hapned vntounto you / once to admit into your mynde / thys opinion of Anabaptiſme of your brethren / which hauehave alwayes had it in as great deteſtatiō as your ſelfe / preached againſt it / as much as your ſelfe / hated of the folowers & fauourers of it / as much as your ſelfe. And it is yet more ſtrange / that you hauehave not doubted / to geue out ſuch ſlaunderous reports of them / but dare to preſent ſuch accuſations / to the holy and ſacred ſeat of iuſtice / & thereby (ſo much as in you lyeth) to corrupt it / & to call for the ſword vponupon the innocent / (which is geuen for their mayntenance and ſafetie) that / as it is a boldnes vntollerable / ſo could I hardly hauehave thought / that it could hauehave fallen into any / that had caryed but the countenaunce and name of a profeſſor of the goſpell / much les of a doctor of dyuinitie. Before you will ioyne with vsus in this cauſe / you wil place vsus / whether we wil or no / in the campe of the Anabaptiſtes / to the ende you myght thereby / bothe withdraw all from ayding vsus / which are godly minded / as for ye you fearing (as it ſemeth) the inſufficiencie of your pen / myght hauehave the ſword / to ſupply your want other wayes. And if we be found in theyr campe / or be ſuch diſturbers of the quiet eſtate of the church / defacers of ſuch as be in authoritie / maintayners of licenciouſnes and lewde lybertie (as you do ſeme to charge vsus with) we refuſe not to go vnderunder thoſe puniſhmentes / that ſome of that wicked ſect receiued / for iuſt recompence of their demerites. You ſay you will not accuſe any / I know it is for want of no good wil / that you do not accuſe them / of whoſe condemnation and extreame puniſhment / we myght be ſure / if your hand were as ſtrong as your hart. But you ſuſpect the authors of the admonition / and their fautors. * Charitie is not ſuſpitious. Let vsus therefore ſee / 1. Cor. 13. 5.whether there be iuſt matter to beare out / and to vphold this ſuſpition. You wil beare men in hand / that if we be not already full Anabaptiſtes / yet we are in the way thither / the footeſteps whereby you trace vsus / muſt be conſidered.
To the firſt article.
It is all true you here alleage of the Anabaptiſtes: God be prayſed / there is nothing of it / true in vsus. If through theſe queſtions moued / the church be diſquieted / the diſquietnes riſeth in that the truth and ſinceritie which is offered / is not receyued. VVe ſeeke it in no tumultuous manner / but by humble ſute vntounto them / to whome the redreſſe of thinges pertayne / and by teaching as our callinges wil ſuffer. If all thoſe are to be counted in the way to Anabaptiſme / which moue controuerſies when the goſpell is preached: Then thoſe that taught that ye Gentilles were to be preached vntounto / when as the moſt of the beleuing Iewes (which Act. 11. 19.likewiſe preached the goſpell) thought otherwiſe / are to be counted in the way to Anabaptiſme. Likewiſe / thoſe that preached that circumciſion was not neceſſary vntounto ſaluation / when as a great number of Chriſtians at the firſt / thought it neceſſary. Then maiſter Zuinglius & Oecolampadius ſmelled of Anabaptiſme / which went about to ouerthrow dyuerſe things / which maiſter Luther helde. I could goe further with thys / but I content my ſelfe wyth theſe examples. If any be brought in doubt / or hatred of the truth hereby / or any man take occaſion to be contentious / it is not in the nature of the doctrine which is taught / but in the corruption of their myndes / nor it is not offence geuen / but taken: nor thys doctryne can be no more charged / then the reſt of the goſpell / which is a * ſworde / Math. 10. 34. Luk. 12. 49.that cutteth a citie / or kingdome in ſunder / and ſetteth a * fire where there was none / and putteth contention betwene the father and the ſonne. But what is to geue an incurable offence vntounto the ſimple / and matter to the enemie to reioyce in / to all good Chriſtyans of teares and weeping / if thys be not: to make the world thinke / that numbers of thoſe which profeſſe the goſpell / are infected wyth the poiſon of Anabaptiſme / whych can not be touched wyth the ſmalleſt poynt of it? As for the magiſtrate / and authority / we acknowledge ye lawfulnes / neceſſity / and ſingular commodity of it / we commēd it in our ſermons to others / we pray for them / as for thoſe / of whoſe good or euill eſtate / hangeth the flouriſhing or decay of the common wealth / and church both. We louelove them as our fathers and mothers / we feare them / as our Lords and maiſters / and we obay thē in the Lord / and for the Lord. If there be any thyng / wherin we do not according to that which is commaunded / it is / becauſe we can not be perſuaded in our conſciences / that we may ſo doe (wherof we are ready to render a reaſon out of the word of God) and if that wil not ſerue / forthwith to ſubmit our ſelues / to that puniſhment / that ſhall be awarded againſt vsus. And herein / we firſt cal the Lord God to witnes of our meaning / and then we referre our ſelues to the conſciences of all men in the ſight of God.
To the ſecond Article.
There was neuer hereticke ſo abhominable / but that he had ſome truth to cloke hys falſhode / ſhould hys vntruths and blaſphemies / driue vsus from the poſſeſſion of that / which he holdeth truely? no not the Deuill hym ſelfe (ſaying / that * God had geuen his angels charge ouer his) can thereby wring this ſentence Pſal. 91. 11. Math. 4. 6.from vsus / why we ſhould not both beleue it / and ſpeake it / being a neceſſary truth to beleue / and ſpeake. You may as wel ſay / we are Anabaptiſts / becauſe we ſay / there is but one God / as they did / one Chriſt / as they did. &c. And heere I will geue the reader a taſt of your Logike / that you make ſo much of in your boke.
The Anabaptiſts ſay that the churches ought to chuſe their miniſter / and not the magiſtrate.
And you ſay ſo.
Therfore you are Anabaptiſts / or in the way to Anabaptiſme.
The Anabaptiſts complained that the Chriſtians vſed not their authoritie in excommunication.
And ſo do you complaine.
Therfore you are Anabaptiſts / or in the way to them.
I will not lay to your charge / that you hauehave not learned Ariſtotles Priorums / which ſayth / it is aſyſtaton, as often / as the meane in any ſyllogiſme / is cō ſequent to both the extremes. But hauehave you not learned that / whych Seton / or any other halfepenny Logik telleth you / that you can not conclude affirmatiuely in the ſecond figure? and of thys ſort / are eueryevery one of your ſurmiſes contained in thys Treatiſe / whych you entitle an exhortation. &c. And if I liked / to make a long boke of little matter (as you do) I would thus gather your argumēts out of eueryevery braſich whych you aſcribe / as common vntounto vsus wyth the Anabaptiſts / as you make adoe / vponupon eueryevery place / whych is quoted by the admonition to the Parliament. But anſwer I pray you / in good faith / are you of that iudgement / that the ciuill magiſtrate ſhould ordaine miniſters? Or / that there ſhould be no excommunication / whych we know was in the primitiue / and is vſed in certaine the Heluetian churches? If you be / your controuerſy is not ſo much wyth vsus / as wyth the byſhops / whych both call miniſters / and excommunicate. If you be not / why is that Anabaptiſticall in vsus / whych is chriſtian and catholike in you? and why do you go about / to bring vsus in hatred for thoſe things / whych you do no more alow / then theſe / whom you thus endeuor to diſcredite? We do not ſay that there is no lawfull / or no ordinary calling in England / for we do not deny / but that he maye be lawfully called / whych is not ordinarily / as M. Luther / Melancthon / Zuinglius / Oecolampadius. &c. and there be places in England / where the miniſters are called by their pariſhes in ſuch ſorte / as the examples of the ſcripture do ſhew to hauehave bene done / before the elderſhyp and gouernment of the church be eſtabliſhed. I know not any / that ſaith / that the goſpel is not truely preached in Englande / and by thoſe alſo that are not of the ſame iudgement / that the Admonition to the Parliament is of. But if it be ſayd / that it is not generally of eueryevery one of them / and in all poynts / or not ſo oftē / or not there / where their duety bindeth them / and they are called vntounto / or not ſo ſincerely / or wythout mixture / as it oughte to be / then there is nothing ſayde / but that / which we feare / may be too eaſely proued. If it be ſayde of ſome / that in certaine there are found ſome of thoſe things / that were reprehēded in the Phariſeis / what is that to proue / that they be Anabaptiſtes y• ſpeake it. Your ſelfe in one place of your booke / call the authors of the Admonition and their fauourers / Phariſeis / who do all thyngs to be ſeene of men / and therefore they ſighe / and holde downe their heades. &c. and thys you ſpeake / againſt them that preache the goſpell. Therefore by your reaſon you geue ſentence of Anabaptiſme againſt your ſelfe. You promiſed you would not wryte one worde / wherof you had not your author for it. Firſt you hauehave peruerted the meaning of the Anabaptiſts / in that wherein they accuſed the godly miniſters / that they were not according to that whych is wrytten in the third of the firſt Epiſtle to Timothe / and all becauſe you would multiply the nōbre of your likelyhodes. For they charged the miniſters / by that place / of diſſolutenes and loſenes of lyfe / and corruption of manners / and we alledge it to proue that they ſhould be able to teache and inſtruct / againſt ye dumbe miniſtery that is abrode. But that which followeth / vttereth not only great vntruth and falſification of the author / but ſheweth a minde deſirous to ſlaunder / and ſory (as it ſeemeth) that thoſe whych you ſo greeuouſly diſcredite / are no liker the Anabaptiſts / then they be. I will ſette downe the wordes / as they are wrytten in the. 102. leafe / that it may appeare howe faithfully you hauehave dealt. Libere enim dicunt concionatores qui ſtipendium accipiunt, non eſſe veros Dei miniſtros, neque poſſe docere veritatem, ſed eſſe ventris miniſtros, qui otioſe accipiant ingentia ſtipendia, ex illis rebus, que ſimulachris immolate fuerunt, & ex diuitiis ſplendide & luxurioſe viuant, cum tamen Chriſtus dixit, gratis accepiſtis, gratis date, & prohibuit duas tunicas, peram & pecuniam habere. Preterea Paulum aiunt manibus ſuis laboraſſe, & mandaſſe reliquis, vt idem faciant, itaque concludunt nulla debere ſtipendia habere ſui officii, ſed laborare & gratis miniſtrare, & quiahoc non faciunt, non poſſe ipſos veritatem docere. They ſay freely (ſpeaking of the Anabaptiſts) that the preachers whych take ſtipends / can not be the true miniſters of God / nor teache the truthe / but are miniſters of the belly / whych to liue idlely take great ſtipendes / of thoſe things whych were offered to images / and doe of their riches liue gorgeouſly and riotouſly / when notwithſtanding Chriſte ſayde / ye hauehave receiued freely / geue freely / and for bad them to hauehave two coates / or a ſcrip / or money. Beſides that / they ſay that Paule laboured with hys owne handes / and gaue commaundement / to the reſt of the miniſters / that they ſhould do ſo / and therefore they conclude / that they ſhould hauehave no ſtipende for their office / but laboure and miniſter for nought / and becauſe they doe not ſo / they can not teache the truthe. Nowe / let all men iudge / whether it be one thing / to ſay / that they ought not to hauehave ſtipends / that labor not / or to ſay / as the Anabaptiſts ſayd / that it was not lawfull to hauehave any ſtipende / or to ſay / they coulde not teach truely / becauſe they had great liuings / or becauſe they had any liuings at all. Although I neuer red / nor heard any of thoſe / that you meane / ſaye / that thoſe whych had great ſtipends and liuings / could not preach truely. It may be / that diuers hauehave ſayd / that it were meete / the miniſters ſhould be content / wyth competent ſtipends / and that the ouerplus of that / myght go to the ſupply of the wants of other miniſters liuings / and to the maintenance of the poore / or of the vniuerſitie / and that that exces / is the cauſe of diuers diſorders in thoſe perſons / that hauehave it / but that they could not preache truely (when they preached) whych had great liuings / I for my part / neuer heard it. I thinke you would not be exempted from reprehenſion of that / wherin you fault / and therfore I knowe not what you meane by theſe words (ye they did not thoſe things them ſelues / which they taught others) we profes no ſuch perfection in our liues / but that we are oftentimes behinde a great deale / in doing of that whych is taught to be our dueties to doe / and therefore thinke it neceſſary / that we ſhould be reprehended / and ſhewed our faultes. Whereas you ſay / that the Anabaptiſts accuſed the miniſters / for geuing too much to the Magiſtrates / I hauehave ſhewed what we geue / and if it be too little / ſhew vsus / and we will amend our fault. I aſſure you / it greueth me / and I am euen in the beginning weary / of turning vp thys dunge / and refuting ſo vaine and friuolous ſlaunders / wythout all ſhewe and face of truthe / and therfore I will be breefe in the reſt.
To the thirde.
We praiſe God for this reformation / ſo farre forthe / as it is agreeable vntounto the word of God / we are glad the word of God is preached / that the ſacraments are miniſtred / that whych is wanting / we deſire it may be added / that whych is ouermuche / cutte of / and we are not aſhamed to profes / that we deſire / it may be done / according to the inſtitution of the churches in the Apoſtles time. You your ſelfe confes / that excommunication is abuſed: that no amendment of life appeareth ſince the preaching of the goſpel / is an old and generall complaint of all godly miniſters in all churches / and in all tunes. * Eſay preached this / in ye church / Eſay. 5. 1. &c. Pſal. 12. 1. Pſal. 14. 3.and of the whole churche / and further that they brought for the rotten frute. Dauid / that the faithfull people were deminiſhed out of the lād / that there was none that did good / no not one. And diuers other of the Prophets / hauehave made greuouſer complaints / and great charges againſt the people of God / and yet were no Anabaptiſts / nor in the way to Anabaptiſme. If there be none / that eyther hauehave wrytten or ſpoken that the church of England / is no more the true Churche of Chriſt / then the papiſticall churche / then beſides that there is no truthe in youre tongue / there ſeemeth to be no ſhame in your forheade / if there be any / it ſtandeth your good name in hand / that you bring them out.
To the fourth.
If ſome of thoſe whych fauor this cauſe / hauehave ben ouercaryed in part / to do things which might hauehave ben more cōueniently ordered / it is againſt reaſon that you ſhould therfore charge thoſe / which fauor thys cauſe that you oppugne. You would thinke you had wrong / if becauſe ſome of thoſe that fauor that which you fauor in this matter / be either free wil men / or hold conſubſtantiation in the Sacrament / you ſhuld be chalenged as free will men / or maintainers of conſubſtantiation. If thoſe metings / whych they had / were permitted vntounto them / by them / that hauehave authoritie / I ſee nothing / why they may not ſeeke to ſerue God in puritie / and les mixture of hurtfull ceremonies: If they were not permitted / yet your name of conuenticles / whych agreed to the Anabaptiſts / is too lighte and contemptuous / to ſet forth thoſe aſſemblies / wherin I thinke you wil not deny / but that the word of God and his ſacraments were miniſtred / & take you heede / that theſe ſo reprochfull ſpeaches / which you throw out againſt men / reache not vntounto God: A ſofter word would hauehave better becommed you.
To the fifth.
I anſwere as vntounto the laſt clauſe of the thirde article.
To the ſixth.
We pretend it not / but we propound it / and herein we call God to witnes agaynſt our owne ſoules.
To the ſeuenth.
If you do not theſe things (which we ſay not) we wil rather do thē with the Anabaptiſts / then leaue them vndone with you. Of our ſimple heart & meaning in thē / we hauehave before proteſte…. In ye meane ſeaſon / we wil paciently abide vntill the Lord bring our * rightuouſnes in thys behalfe vntounto light / and our luſt Pſal. 37. 6.dealing as the none day. Touching our ſighing / and ſeldome or neuer laughing / you giuegive occaſion after to ſpeake of it / vntounto the which place I reſerue ye anſwer.
To the eight.
We are no Stoikes / that we ſhould not be touched with the feeling of our grefes / if our complaintes be exceſſiue / ſhewe them / and we will abridge them. What errors we defend / and how you maintaine your part by the word of God / it will appeare in the diſcourſe of your boke.
To the ninthe.
Their finding fault wythout cauſe in the ceremonies of baptiſme / can not barre vsus / from finding fault / where there is cauſe. We allowe of the baptiſme of children / and hope throughe the goodnes of God / that it ſhall be farre from vsus / euer to condemne it. But to let your ſlaunderous tong go (all the ſtrings wherof ye ſeme to hauehave loſed / that it may the more frely be throwne out / and walke againſt the innocent.) Where / where is the modeſty you require in other / of not entring to iudge of things vnknowne / which dare inſinuate to the magiſtrate / that it is lyke they will condemne childrens baptiſme / which doe baptiſe them / preach they ſhould he baptized / and whych did neuer by ſillable / letter / or countenaunce / miſlike of their baptiſme?
To the. 10. 11. and. 12.
I anſwer as vntounto the fifth / and for further anſwer / I will refer the reader to thoſe places / where occaſion ſhall be geuen to ſpeake of theſe thyngs againe.
To the. 13.
This is a braunch of the. 8. and added for nothing elſe but to make vp the tale.
To the. 14.
We feare no ſhedding of bloud in her maieſties dayes / for maintaining that whych we hope we ſhal be able to proue out of the word of God / and wherin we agree with the beſt reformed churches / but certaine of the things which we ſtād vponupon are ſuch / as that if eueryevery heare of our head were a life / we ought to aforde them for the defence of them. VVe bragge not of any the leaſt abilitie of ſuffering / but in the feare of God / we hope of the aſſiſtance of God his holy ſpirite to abide / whatſoeuer he ſhall thinke good to try vsus with / either for profeſſion of thys / or any other hys truth whatſoeuer.
To the. 15.
VVe make no ſeperation from the church / we go about to ſeperate all thoſe thyngs / that offend in the church / to the end that we being all knit to the ſincere truth of the goſpell / might afterwards in the ſame bond of truth / be more nearely and cloſely ioyned together. VVe endeuor that eueryevery church hauing a lawfull paſtor / whych is able to inſtruct / all myght be ranged to their proper churches / wheras diuers / onles they go to other then their owne pariſhes / are like to heare few ſermons in the yeare / ſo farre are we from withdrawing men from their ordinary churches and paſtors. Let him that inueigheth againſt any paſtor without good cauſe / beare the puniſhment: as for inueighing againſt heaping of liuing vponupon liuing / and ioyning ſteeple to ſteeple / and non reſidence / and ſuche ambition and tiranny / as beareth the ſway in diuers Eccleſiaſticall perſons / if the price of the pacification / be the offending of the Lorde / it is better you be diſpleaſed / then God be offended.
To the. 16.
VVe ſtay our ſelues wythin the bonds of the word of God: we profes our ſelues to be of the nombre of thoſe / whych ſhould * grow in knowledge / as we do Ephe. 4. 13.in age / and whych labor that the image of God may be daily renewed in vsus / not only in holynes of life / but alſo in * knowledge of the truthe of God / and yet I Coll. 3. 10.know no queſtion moued / which hath not ben many yeares before in other churches reformed / holden as truthe / and therefore practiſed / and in our churche alſo hauehave bene ſome yeares debated.
To the. 17.
If we defende no falſhoode or inconuenient thing / we can not be counted ſtubborne or wilfull / whereof we offer to be tried by the indifferent reader. For waiwardnes and inhumanitie / we thincke it a fault / as we eſteme godly ſocietie and affabilitie to be commendable: and what is our behauior herein / we likewiſe referre to their iudgementes / wyth whome we are conuerſant / and hauehave to doe wyth / being miſſeiudged and vntruly condemned of you / we iudge nor condemne no man / their vices we condemne / ſo farre forth as the liſtes of our vocation doe permit vsus.
To the. 18.
We allowe of common weales / as without which / the church can not long continue / we ſpeake not againſt ciuill gouernment / nor yet againſt eccleſiaſtical / further then the ſame is an enemy to the gouernment / that God hath inſtituted.
To the. 19.
If we geue honor and reuerence to none / let vsus not only hauehave none again / but let vsus be had as thoſe that are vnworthy to liue amongſt men. I feare there be of thoſe / whych are your fauourers / Eccleſiaſticall perſons / that if they ſhuld meete wyth my Lord Mayor of London / would ſtraine curteſye / whether he or they ſhould put of the cap firſt. We geue the titles of Maieſtie / to the Queene our ſoueraigne / of grace / to Duke and Duches / of honor / to thoſe whych are in honoure / and ſo to eueryevery one / according to their eſtate. If we miſſe / it is not becauſe we are not willing / but becauſe we knowe not alwayes what pertaineth vntounto them / and then our faulte is pardonable. For anſwearing churliſhly / it is anſweared before in the ſeuenth Article.
To the. 20.
VVith acknowledging of our manifold wants and ignorances / we dout not alſo to take vponupon vsus / with thanks geuing / that knowledge / which God hath geuen to eueryevery of vsus according to the meaſure of fayth: we ſeke not to pleaſe oure ſelues / but the Lord and our brethren / yea all men / in that whych is good. VVe reuerence other mens gifts / ſo as we thinke the contempt of them redoundeth to the giuer. Therfore although the common infection be in vsus / yet we hope pride doth not * raigne in our mortall bodyes.Pſal. 19. 13. Rom. 6. 12.
To the. 21.
VVe hold that it is no miniſters part / to chuſe his owne place where he will preach / but to tary vntill he be choſen of others. Likewyſe / that he inſinuate not hym ſelfe / but abide a lawfull calling / and therfore thys can not agree to vsus / but to thoſe rather / whych content themſelues wyth a rouing and wandering myniſtery / and defend the miniſters owne preſenting and offering him ſelfe or euer he be called.
To the. 22. and. 23.
I anſwer as to the fifthe / and touching the. 23. refer the reader to a further anſwer in that place / where occaſion is offered to ſpeake of it againe.
To the. 24.
So farre forth as we may (for the infirmities wherwyth we are encloſed) we endeuor to adorne the doctrine of the goſpell / whych we profes / we ſeeke not the admiration of men / if God do geue / that we hauehave honeſt report / we thyncke we ought to maintaine that / to the glory of God and aduancement of the goſpel. what is our ſtraightnes of life any other / then is required in all chriſtians? we bryng in (I am ſure) no Monachiſme or Anchoriſme / we eate and drynke as other men / we liue as other men / we are apparelled as other men / we lye as other men / we vſe thoſe honeſt recreations that other men doe / and we thincke there is no good thing / or commodity of life in the world / but that in ſobriety we may be partakers of / ſo farre as our degree and calling will ſuffer vsus / & as God maketh vsus able to hauehave it. For the hipocriſy that you ſo often charge vsus wyth / the day ſhall try it. If any man ioyne wych vsus / with minde to contende / it is againſt our will / notwithſtanding we knowe none / and what great ſtirrers and contenders they be whych fauor thys cauſe / let all men iudge.
To the two next ſections.
Do you thincke to mocke the worlde ſo / that when you hauehave ſo vniuſtly / & ſo hainouſly accuſed / you may wipe your mouth / and ſay (as you did before) that you will not accuſe any? and as now / that you will leaue the application? Is not this to accuſe / to ſay / that the authors of the Admonition doe almoſt plainly profeſſe Anabaptiſme? is not thys to apply / to ſay that they agree wyth the Anabaptiſts in all the fornamed practiſes and qualities? You would faine ſtrike vsus / but you would do it in the night / when no man ſhould ſee you / and yet if you hauehave to do againſt Anabaptiſts / you neede not feare to proclaime your warre againſt them. You hauehave a glorious cauſe / you ſhall hauehave a certaine victorye. I dare promiſſe you / that you ſhall hauehave all the eſtates and orders of this realme / to clappe their handes / and ſing your epinicia, and triumphant ſongs. But that you would conuey your ſting ſo priuely and hiſſingly / as the Adder doth / it carieth with it a ſuſpition of an euill conſcience / and of a worſe cauſe / then you make the world beleeue you hauehave.
From moreouer. &c. vntounto To conclude.
Now you cary vsus from the Anabaptiſts in Europe / vntounto the Donatiſts in Affrike / & you wil paint vsus with their coloures / but you want the oyle of truth / or likelyhode of truth / to cauſe your colours to cleaue / & to endure. The Lord be praiſed / that your breath / although it be very ranke / yet it is not ſo ſtrong / that it is able / either to turn vsus / or chaunge vsus / into what formes it pleaſeth you. I ſhal deſire the reader / to loke Theod. lib. 4. De fabulis haereticorum, and Auguſtine / ad quod vult Deum, and in his firſt and ſecond bokes / againſt Petilians letters / where he ſhall finde of theſe heretikes / yt by comparing thē wyth theſe / to whom M. Doctor likeneth thē / the ſmoke of this accuſation might the better appeare: for theſe ſlanders are not worth the anſwering. To this diuiſion from the churches / and to your ſuppoſed conuenticles / I hauehave anſweared. They taught that there were no true churches but in Affrica / we teach nothing les / thē that there is no true church but in Englande. If the churches be conſidered in the partes / whether miniſter / or people / there is none pure & vnſpotted / and this is the faith of the true Church / and not of the Donatiſtes: If it be conſidered in the whole and generall gouernment / and outward pollicie of it / it may be pure and vnſpotted / for any thing I know / if men would labor to purge it. The Donatiſts vaū ted them ſelues to be exempted from ſinne / and what likelyhode is there betwene any aſſertion of the authors of the Admonition / and this fanſy of the Donatiſts. To the laſt poynt of no compulſion to be vſed in matters of religion denying it to be true / I reſerue the further anſwer to another place.
To the next ſection.
Salomon ſayth ye the beginning of the words of an vnwiſe mā is foliſhnes / Eccl. 10. 13.but the later end of thē is mere madnes: euen ſo it falleth out by you: for whileſt you ſuffer your ſelf to be caryed hedlong of your affections / you hurle / you know not what / nor at whome / what ſo euer commeth firſt to hande / & ſpeake things that the eyes and eares of all men / heare / & ſee / to be otherwiſe. Whileſt you compare them to Anabaptiſts & Donatiſts / ſome frend of yours myght thinke / you ſaid truely / becauſe ſuch alwayes ſeking darke and ſolitary places / might happely hauehave ſome fauorers / whych are not knowen: But when you ioyne them with y• papiſts / which are commonly knowne to all men / whoſe doctrine they impugne / as wel as you / whoſe marks & badges they can les away with / then you / whoſe company they flie more then you / whoſe puniſhment they hauehave called for more then you for your part hauehave done / and therfore are condemned of them as cruell / when you / oftentimes cary away the name of mildnes and moderation / whych forſothe knowe (as you hauehave profeſſed) no commaundement in the ſcrypture / to put heretikes to death: when I ſay / you ioyne them thus with papiſtes / you do not only leeſe your credite in theſe vntrue ſurmiſes / (wherein I truſt / with the indifferent reader you neuer had any) but you make all other thyngs ſuſpected / whych you affirme / ſo that you geue men occaſion to take vp the common prouer be againſt you / I will truſt you no further then I ſee you.
After you hauehave thus yoked them wyth the papiſtes / you go about to ſhew wherin they draw wyth them. Wherin firſt I aſke of you / if all they that affirm or do any thing / that the enemies of the church do / are forthwith ioyned and conſpired wyth them againſt the church? what ſay you to ſ. Paule that ioyned with the * Phariſies in the reſurrection / with the falſe apoſtles in taking no * wages Act. 23. 6. 2. Cor. 11. 12. 1. Cor. 9. 6.of the Corinthians / to oure ſauioure Chriſte / which ſpake againſt the Iewes / whych were then the only people of God / as the Gentils did whych were their ennemies: wil you ſay therfore / that either S. Paule ioyned with the Phariſies or falſe Apoſtles / againſt the church / or that our ſauioure Chriſt / ioyned againſt the Iewes wyth the Gentiles? but let vsus ſee your ſlaunders particularly.
To the firſt.
They do not deny / but there is a viſible church of God in England / & therfore your ſaying of them / y• they do almoſt in plaine and flat termes ſay / that we hauehave not ſo much as any outward face & ſhew of the true church / argueth yt you hauehave almoſt no louelove in you / which vponupon one word once vttered / contrary to ye tenure of their boke / & courſe of their whole life / ſurmiſe this of thē: and how truly you conclude of that word (ſkarce) it ſhall appeare when we come to that place.
To the ſecond.
I hauehave anſwered this in ye. 2. article of Anabaptiſme ye you charge vsus with.
To the third.
Thys alſo is anſwered in the thirde.
To the fourth.
I anſwer / that they do not condemne it wholely / but finde fault with it / as in ſome poynts diſagreeing wyth the word of God.
To the fifth.
All men ſhall perceiue / when I come to that place / howe you hauehave racked their words to an other ſenſe then they ſpake them. In the meane ſeaſon / it is enough that they confes that reading in the church is godly.
To the ſixth.
I hauehave anſweared in the tenth Article of Anabaptiſme.
To the ſeuenth.
I anſwer that * Doeg / when he ſayd that Dauid came to Abimelech / ſaid Pſal. 52. 1.nothing but truth / and when they that witneſſed againſt Chriſte / that he ſayde / * deſtroy the temple / and in three dayes I will build it vp againe / ſayde nothing Math. 26. 61.but that our ſauior Chriſt ſayd: But yet Doeg was a ſlaunderer / and the other falſe witneſſes: becauſe the one ſpake it of minde to hurt / & the other vnderſtode it of an other temple then oure ſauioure Chriſt ment it. So although you doe in parte rehearſe their wordes / yet taking them contrary to their meaning (whych myght eaſely appeare by the circumſtances) I ſee not howe you can be free from theſe faultes / vnles it be done ignorantly / whych I wiſhe were true for your owne ſake. And here I wil deſire thee (gentle reader) to marke with what conſcience this man ſayth / that they are ioyned and confederate with papiſts againſt the church. The papiſtes miſlyke of the boke of common prayer / for nothing els / but becauſe it ſwarueth from their maſſe boke / and is not in all poynts like vntounto it. And theſe men miſlike it / for nothyng els / but becauſe it hath too much likelyhode vntounto it. And iudge whether they be more ioyned wyth the papiſts / whych would hauehave no communion nor felowſhip wyth them / neither in ceremonies / nor doctrine / nor gouernment / or they / whych forſaking their doctrine / retaine parte of their ceremonies / and almoſt their whole gouernment: that is / they that ſeperate them ſelues by three walles / or by one: they that would be parted by ye brode ſea from them / or which would be deuided by narowe water / where they may make a bridge / to come in againe / and diſplace the truthe of the goſpell / as they hauehave done in times paſt: They that would not only vnhorſe the Pope / but alſo take away the ſtirrops / whereby he ſhould neuer get into the ſaddle agayne / or they which being content wyth that that he is vnhorſed / leaue his ceremonies & hys gouernment eſpecially / as ſtirrops / whereby he may leape vp againe / when as occaſion ſerueth: They that are content / only to hauehave cut the armes and body of the tree of antichriſtianitie / or they which wold hauehave ſtumpe and roote all vp.
The laſt ſection.
After you hauehave all to be blacked and grimed wyth ye inke of Anabaptiſme / Donatiſme / and Papiſme thoſe whome you found cleare from the leaſt ſpot / or ſpecke of any of them: you whet the ſword / and blow the fire / and you will hauehave the godly magiſtrate miniſter of your choler / and therfore in ſtead of feare of leeſing the multitude of your liuings / forgoing your pompe and pride of men / and delicacy of fare / vnlawfull iuriſdiction / which you hauehave and heereafter loke for / conſcience / religion / and eſtabliſhment of the common wealth / muſt be pretēded. What / hauehave you forgotten that whych you ſayd in the beginning / that you accuſed none / but ſuſpected certaine? woulde you hauehave the ſword to be drawne vponupon your ſuſpitions? But now you ſee that they whō you hauehave accuſed / are nothing like eyther Anabaptiſts / Donatiſts / or Papiſts / and your ſelfe moſt vnlike vntounto hym / that you profes to be / and now you ſee / that all your ſlaunders are quē ched by ye innocencye (as it were by water) of thoſe men / whom you ſo hainouſly accuſe: you are to be put in minde / of the law of God / whych decreeth / that he …eu. 19. 18. 19whych accuſeth an other / if he proue it not / ſhall ſuffer the puniſhment which he ſhould hauehave done / agaynſt whom the accuſation had ben iuſtly proued. The Romaines did nouriſh in Capitolio, certain dogs and geeſe / whych by their barking and gagling / ſhould geue warning in the night / of theeues that entred in: but if they cried in the day time / when there was no ſuſpition / and when men came in to worſhip / then their legs were broken / becauſe they cried / when there was no cauſe. If therfore / he hauehave accuſed iuſtly / then he is worthy to hauehave hys diet allowed hym of the commō charges. But if otherwiſe / we deſire not that his legs may be broken (as theirs were.) But thys we humbly craue / that if thys oure anſwer doe not ſufficiently purge vsus / that we may be ſifted and ſearched nearer / that if we nouriſhe any ſuche monſtrnous opinions / (as are ſurmiſed) we may hauehave the reward of them: if we do not / then at the leaſt / we may hauehave the good abearing / againſt ſuch ſlaunderous tongues / ſeeing that God hath not only committed vntounto the magiſtrate / the ſafetye of our goods and life / but alſo the preſeruation of our honeſt reporte.