A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 16 – Part 17
To the next ſection in the 45.
THoſe that write the Centuries / ſuſpect thys Canon / and doubt whether it be a baſtarde or no / conſidering the practiſe of the church: But heere or euer you were aware / you hauehave ſtriken at your ſelfe. For before you ſayde / that thys order of chuſing the miniſter by voyces of the church / was but in the Apoſtles tyme / and duryng the time of perſecution. And the firſt time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye / was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde / which was at the leaſt 31. yeares after that Conſtantine the great began to raigne. I ſay at the leaſt / becauſe there be good authors that ſay / that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure / and ſo there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Conſtantines raigne / and thys councel. Now I thinke you will not ſay that the Church was vnderunder perſecution in Cō ſtantines tyme. And therfore you ſee you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt.
And if it be as lawfull for vsus to vſe maiſter Caluins authoritie / which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cauſe / as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes / to things which he neuer meant / and the contrary wherof he continually practiſed / then thys authoritie of youres is daſhed. For Vppon the Actes. 16.maiſter Caluin ſayth / where as it is ſayd in that councel / that the election ſhould not be permitted to the people / it meaneth nothing elſe but that they ſhould make no election / without hauing ſome miniſters or men of iudgement / to direct them in their election / and to gather their voyces / and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuouſly / euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches. And euen the ſame order woulde we hauehave kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confuſion / for as we would hauehave the libertie of the Church preſerued / which Chriſt hath bought ſo dearely from all tyranny / ſo do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confuſion and diſorder.
But if councelles be of ſo great authoritie to decide thys controuerſy / then the moſt famous councell of Nice will ſtrike a great ſtroke with you / which in an Epiſtle that it wryteth vntounto the Church of Egipt (as Theodoret maketh mention) ſpeaketh thus. It is meete that you ſhould hauehave power both to chuſe any man / and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongſt the clergye / and to doe all things abſolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche. And if it happen any to dye in the churche / then thoſe which were laſt taken / are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead / with thys condition / if they be worthy / and the people chuſe them / and the biſhop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his conſent / and appoynting them.
An other of the famouſeſt councelles / called the councell of Conſtantinople / which was gathered vnderunder Theodoſius ye great (as it is witneſſed by the * Tripartite 9. Lib. 14. cap.ſtorie) in an Epiſtle which it wrote to Damaſus the pope / and Ambroſe and others / ſayth thus. We hauehave ordayned Nectarius the byſhoppe of Conſtantinople / with the whole conſent of the counſell / in the ſight of the Emperour Theodoſius beloued of God / the whole Citie together decreeing the ſame. Likewiſe he ſayth that Flauian was appoynted by that ſynode / byſhop of Antioche / the whole people appoynting him.
Likewiſe in the councell of Carthage where Auguſtine was / holden about anno domini 400. in the firſt canon of the councell it is ſayde / when hee hath bene examyned in all theſe / and founde fully inſtructed / then let hym be ordayned Byſhop by the common conſent of the clarkes and the lay people / and the Byſhoppes of the prouince / and eſpecially eyther by the authoritie or preſence of the metropolitane.
And in the Toletane councell / as it appeareth in the 51. diſtinction / it was thus ordayned. Let not hym be counted a prieſt of the Churche (for ſo they ſpeake) whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a prieſt doth chuſe / nor the conſent of the metropolitane & other prieſts in that prouince hath ſought after.
Moreouer / concilium Cabilonenſe which was holden anno domini. 650. in the tenth Canon / hath thys. If any Biſhop after the death of hys predeceſſor be choſen of any but of the byſhops in the ſame prouince / and of the cleargie & citizens / let an other be choſen / and if it be otherwiſe / let that ordination be accompted of none effect. All which councelles proue manifeſtly / that as ye people in their elections had the miniſters rounde about / or ſynodes & counceiles directing them / ſo there was none came to be ouer the people / but by their voyces or conſentes.
To the next ſection in the 45. page: Thys alteration. &c.
IN deede if you put ſuch darke coleures vponupon the Apoſtles church as thys is / it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vsus of framing and faſhioning our church after it. But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible diſorder / aſcribed to the Apoſtles church / which heere you attribute vntounto it: that eueryevery one hand ouer head preached / baptiſed / and expounded the Scriptures. VVhat a window / nay / what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptiſtes / to confirme their fantaſticall opynion / wherin they holde / that eueryevery man whome the ſpirite moueth / may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of God. If you ſay it is Ambroſe ſaying and not youres / I anſwere / vnleſſe you allow it / why bring you it / and that to proue the difference betwene the Apoſtles times and theſe. For if it be falſe (as it is moſt falſe) then there is no difference heere betwene the Apoſtles times and oures. Doth not the whole courſe of the ſcriptures declare / and hath it not bene proued / that there was none that tooke vppon hym the miniſterie in the churche / but by lawfull calling? what is thys but to caſt duſt and dirte of the faireſt and beautifulleſt image that euer was / to make a ſmokie / diſfigured / euill proportioned image to ſeeme beautifull / to ouerthrow the Apoſtles buildings of golde and ſiluer and precious ſtones / to make a cottage of wode / ſtraw / and ſtubble / to hauehave ſome eſtymation / which could hauehave none / the other ſtanding. For in effecte ſo you doe / when (to vpholde a corrupte vſe that came in by the tyrannie of the pope) you goe about to diſcredite the orders and inſtitutions which were vſed in the Apoſtles times? and that with ſuch manyfeſt vntruthes.