A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 27 (2 of 3)

A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift · Reply · Part 27 (2 of 3)

p. 98Thys is it whych we ſtriue about / wherof the cōtrouerſy is / and this M. doctor taketh for graunted. He accuſeth the authors of the admonition / for faulting in the petition of the principle / or deſiring to hauehave that graunted whych is denyed / & yet I am ſure / that in the whole admonition / there is not ſuch a groſſe p. 99petition as thys is. Where / or in what wordes dothe S. Cyprian ſpeake of the office of an archbyſhop? And heere by the way it is to be obſerued of the reader / how neare a kin the Pope and the archbiſhop be. For this office is confirmed by the ſame places / that the popes is / the places and arguments which are brought againſte hym / are ſoluted wyth the ſame ſolutions that they vſe / whych maintaine the papacie. For theſe places of Cyprian be alledged for the popes ſupremacye / and in deede they make as muche for the Pope / as for the archbyſhoppe. For / although they be two heades / yet they ſtande vponupon one necke / and therfore the reformed churches whych cutte right / did ſtrike them bothe of at one blowe. In neyther of the ſentences heere alledged out of Cyprian / nor in all his works / as hath bene before noted / is there one worde of an archbyſhop / and yet M. doctor ſayeth that he ſpeaketh of an archbyſhop.

Before he ſhewed the name wythout the office / and now he goeth about to ſhew the office wythout the name / ſo that he can neuer make bothe the name and office meete together. To ſhape out an archbyſhop heere / you muſt needes interpreate the wordes (byſhop and prieſt) archbyſhop and hygh prieſt / for Cyprian maketh mention of no other name of miniſterie in thoſe places. And if you maye hauehave thys ſcope of interpreating / it wil not be harde for you / to proue that ſtones be bread / and that chaulke is cheeſe. Let vsus ſee what is a byſhop or prieſt (I vſe the name of prieſt againſt my wil / but becauſe it is ſacerdos, & you ſo trāſlate it / that it may be better vnderſtanded what I anſwere to you / I am content to followe you ſo farre) I ſay let vsus conſider what is a byſhop or prieſt by S. Cyprian / and thereby we ſhall knowe / what an archbyſhop he ſetteth forthe vntounto vsus. Whych thing may appeare manifeſtly / by that which he ſayeth in the ſame Epiſtle / that the byſhop that is appoynted into the place of hym that is dead / is choſen peaceably by the voyce of all the people.

I thincke you will not ſay that all the people through oute the whole prouince / or through out a whole dioceſe (as we count a dioceſe) mette togither / for that had bene bothe a great diſorder and confuſion / a great charge to the church / and in the time of perſecution as that was / to hauehave offered the whole church in all the prouince / into the mouthe of the wolfe.

And leaſt peraduenture you ſhoulde hauehave thys hole to hide your ſelfe in / ſaying that it might be procured / that in eueryevery church or pariſhe through out eyther the prouince or dioceſe / the conſent of the people might be aſked / and they tary in their places where they dwel / Cyprian in the next epiſtle / doth put the matter out of all queſtion / ſaying that the prieſt (whome he after calleth byſhop) is choſen in the preſence of the people / & in the eyes of all / ſo that Cyprians byſhop / whome you will needes hauehave an archbyſhop / had neither prouince nor dioceſe / as we call a dioceſe / but only a church or congregation / ſuche as the miniſters and paſtors wyth vsus / whych are appoynted vntounto ſeuerall townes. Which may further appeare / in that Cyprian ſayeth / that out of one prouince there were. 90. biſhops / whych condemned Priuatus. Nowe / if there were. 90. byſhops in one prouince whych met / and yet not all that were in that prouince (as may appeare out of the ſame Epiſtle) all men do vnderſtand that the ſcope that Cyprians byſhop or archbyſhop (as you will hauehave him) had / was no ſuche thing as a dioceſe or a prouince. I coulde bring infinite teſtimonies out of Cyprian / to proue that the byſhop in his time / was nothing elſe but S. Paules byſhop / that is / one that had cure and charge of one flocke / whych was ſo placed as it might be taught of hym / and ouerſeene by him / and gouerned by hym / and of whom in matters pertaining to God / it myght depend.

Furthermore / to ſhape the archbyſhop by theſe places of Cyp. you muſt be driuen to expound this word (church) prouince. The papiſtes (which cite thys place for the pope / as you doe for the archbiſhop) expounde the worde (churche) p. 100heere / to be the whole church vniuerſal and catholike / and in dede / although it be falſly expounded ſo in thys place / yet may they doe it wyth more probability and likelyhode / then to expound it a prouince / forſomuch as theſe words (the church) is oftner red / both in the ſcripture / and old wryters / to ſignify the whole church / then any prouince of one realme. But lette Cyprian expounde him ſelfe what he meaneth by a church heere / although that may eaſely appeare by that / whych is ſpoken of S. Cyprian hys biſhop. Wheras Cyprian declareth / that Cornelius the biſhop of the church which was in Rome / would not let Feliciſſimum a Nouation hereticke / being caſte oute by the byſhoppes of Affricke / to enter into the church / he declareth ſufficiently / that he meaneth that companye of the faithfull / whych were gathered togither at Rome / to heare the word / and to communicate at the ſacramentes. For it was not Cornelius part to ſhutte him out of the prouince / neither indeede could he / him ſelfe being not able without hazard (by reaſon of the perſecution that then was) to tary in any part of the prouince. Againe / ſpeaking againſt the Nouatian hereticke / he ſheweth that throughe hys wicked opinion of denying of repentance to thoſe that were fallen / the confeſſion of faults in the churche was hindred. Nowe it is manifeſt that confeſſion was not made through out the prouince / but in that particulare church where the partye dwelt that committed the fault. Therefore Cyprian vnderſtandeth by the name of the church / neither dioceſe (as we call dioceſe) and muche les a whole prouince. And in the ſame Epiſtle / ſpeaking of thoſe whych had fallen / he ſayeth / that they durſt not come ſo much / as to the threſholde / or entry of the churche / where he alſo oppoſeth the church to the prouince / ſaying that they roue about the prouince / and run about to deceiue the brethren. Seeing therefore / the byſhop whych Cyprian ſpeaketh of / is nothing elſe but ſuch as we call paſtor / or as the common name w^t vsus is parſon / and his church wherof he is biſhop / is neither dioceſe nor prouince / but a congregation whych mete togither in one place / & to be taught of one man / what ſhould M. doctor meane to put on this great name of archbyſhop / vponupon ſo ſmall a byſhoppricke? as it were Saules great harnes / vponupon Dauid hys little body / or as if a man ſhould ſet a wide huge porche / before a little houſe.

And leaſt that M. doctor ſhould ſay / that notwithſtanding the biſhops had but ſeuerall churches / yet one of them might hauehave either a title more excellēt then the reſt / or authority and gouernment ouer the reſt / that ſhall be likewiſe conſidered out of Cyprian. And firſt for the title and honor of archbiſhop / it appeareth how Cyprian held that as a proud name / for that he obiecteth to Florentius as a 4. lib. 9. epiſt.preſumptuous thing / for that in beleuing certaine euill reports of hym / and miſiudging of him / he did appoynt him ſelfe biſhop of a biſhop / and iudge ouer hym / which was for the time / appoynted of God to be iudge. And heerein alſo / I may vſe the ſame reaſons which the godly writers of our times vſe againſt y^e pope / to proue y^t he had no ſuperiority in thoſe dayes ouer other biſhops / for that the other biſhops called him brother / and he them / called him fellow biſhop / & he them. For ſo doth Cyprian cal y^e biſhops of that prouince in his epiſtle / his fellow biſhops / and in diuers places his brethren. And in the ſentence which he ſpake in the coū cel of Carthage / he ſayth / none of vsus doth take him ſelfe to be biſhop of biſhops.

Nowe / that there was no authoritye of one byſhop ouer an other / and that there was none ſuche / as when controuerſies roaſe / tooke vppon hym the compounding of them / or any one to whome it appertained / to ſee the vnitye of the church kept / and to ſee that all other biſhops / and the cleargy / did their duety (as M. Doctor beareth vsus in hand) it may clearely be ſeene in diuers places of Cyprian / and firſt of all in that ſentence / which he ſpake in the councel of Carthage, where he proceedeth further after this ſort / that none of them did by any tirannicall feare / binde his felowes in office / or any fellow byſhops / to any neceſſity of obedience / ſeeing that eueryevery biſhop hath for his free libertye and power / hys owne p. 101iudgement or diſcretion / as one which can not be iudged of an other / as he alſo hym ſelfe / can not iudge an other. But (ſayth he) we ought to tary and waite for the iudgement of our Lord Ieſus Chriſt / which only / and alone / hath power to ſet vsus ouer hys church / & to iudge of our doing. And in the ſame Epiſtle whereout the firſt place is taken by M. Doctor / he ſayth that vntounto eueryevery one a portion of the flocke is appoynted / which eueryevery one muſt rule and gouerne / as he that ſhall render an accompt of hys deede vntounto the Lord. And in an other place hee 2. Lib. ep. 1.ſayth / we doe not vſe any compulſion or vyolence ouer any / nor appoynt no law to any / ſeeing that eueryevery one that is ſet ouer the church / hath in the gouernment / the free diſpoſition of hys owne will / whereof he ſhall geue an accompt vntounto the Lord. And yet Cyprian was the byſhop of the metropolitane or cheefe ſeate / and one whome for hys learning and godlyneſſe / the reſt no doubt had in great reuerence / and gaue great honor vntounto.

And whereas it is ſayde for the preſeruation of vnitie / one muſt be ouer all / S. Cyprian ſheweth / that the vnitie of the church is conſerued / not by hauing 4. Lib. ep. 9.one byſhop ouer all. But by the agreement of the byſhops / one with an other. For ſo he wryteth that the church is knit and coupled together (as it were with the glew) of the byſhops conſenting one with an other / and as for the compounding of controuerſies / it is manyfeſt / that it was not done by one byſhop in a prouince / but thoſe byſhoppes whych were neere the place where the ſchiſme or hereſie ſprang.

For / ſpeaking of the appeaſing of controuerſies / and ſchiſmes / and ſhewing Lib. 1. 4. ep.how dyuers byſhops were drawne into the hereſie of Nouatus / he ſayth / that the vertue and ſtrength of the Chriſtians was not ſo decayed or languiſhed / but that there was a portion of prieſtes / which dyd not geue place vntounto thoſe ruines / and ſhipwrackes of fayth.

And in an other place he ſayth: therefore moſt deare brother / the plentifull 3. Lib. ep. 13.body or company of y^e prieſts / are as it were with the glew of mutuall concorde & bande of vnitie ioyned together / that if any of our company be author of an hereſie / and goe about to deſtroy and rent the flocke of Chriſt / the reſt ſhould helpe / and as profitable & mercifull ſhepheards / gather together the ſheepe of the Lord: wherby it is manifeſt / that the appeaſing & compoſing of controuerſies / & hereſies was not then thought to be moſt fitte to be in one byſhops hand / but in as many as coulde conueniently aſſemble together / according to the danger of the hereſie which ſprang / or deepe roote which it had taken / or was like to take. And that there was in his time no ſuch authoritie geuen / as that any one might remoue the cauſes or controuerſies which roſe / as now we ſee there is / when the byſhop of the dioceſe / taketh the matters in controuerſie / which riſe in any church within hys dioceſe / from the miniſter and elders / to whome the deciſion pertayneth / and as when the archbyſhop taketh it away from the byſhop / it may appeare in y^e ſame thirde Epiſtle of the firſt booke / where he ſayth after this ſort. It is ordayned / & it is equall and right / that eueryevery mans cauſe ſhoulde be there hearde / where the fault was committed. And a little after he ſayth: It is meete to handle the matter there / where they may hauehave both accuſers / and witneſſes of the fault / whiche although it be ſpoken of them / which fied out of Affrike vntounto Rome / yet the reaſon is generall / and doth as wel ſerue agaynſt theſe Eccleſiaſticall perſons / which will take vntounto them the decyding of thoſe controuerſies that were done a hundreth mile of them.

And whereas M. Doctor in both places of Cyprian / ſemeth to ſtand much vponupon the wordes (One Byſhop and prieſt) the reaſon thereof doth appeare in an other place of Cyprian / moſt manifeſtly / and that it maketh no more to proue that Lib. 3. 13. ep.there ought to be one archbyſhop ouer a hole prouince / then to ſay / that there ought to be but one huſbande proueth / that therefore there ſhould be but one huſbande p. 102in eueryevery countrey or prouince / which ſhoulde ſee that all the reſt of the huſbandes / doe their dueties to their wyues. For thys was the caſe. A Nouatian hereticke being condemned / and caſt out of the churches of Affrica / by the conſent of the byſhops / & not able by embaſſage ſent to them to obtayne to be receiued to their communion and fellowſhip agayne / goeth afterwardes to Rome / and being lykewiſe there repelled / in tyme getteth hym ſelfe by certayne which fauoured hys hereſie / to be choſen byſhop there at Rome (Cornelius being the byſhop or paſtor of thoſe which were there godly mynded) whereupon it commeth / that Cyprian vrgeth (one byſhop / one prieſt in the church) becauſe at Rome there was two / whereof one was a wolfe / which ought not to hauehave bene there / conſidering there was but one church / which was gathered vnderunder the gouernmēt of Cornelius. And therefore by that place of Cyprian it can not be gathered / that there ought to be but one byſhop in one citie / if the multitude of profeſſors require more / and that all can not well gather them ſelues together in one congregation / to be taught of one man / much leſſe can it ſerue to proue / that there ſhould be but one in a whole dioceſe or prouince. I graunt that in later tymes / and which went more from the ſimplicitie of the primitiue church / they tooke occaſion of theſe wordes to decree / that there ſhould be but one byſhop in a citie / but that can neuer be concluded of Cyprians wordes / if it be vnderſtanded why he vrgeth one byſhop and one prieſt. If therefore neyther word (byſhop nor prieſt) do make any thing to proue an archbyſhop / nor thys worde (church) doth imply any prouince / nor in theſe wordes (one byſhop one prieſt) there is nothing leſſe ment / then that there ſhould be one archbyſhop ouer all the byſhops and cleargie in a prouince / and if Cyprian will neyther allow of the title of archbyſhop / nor of the authoritie and office / but in playne wordes ſpeaketh agaynſt both / we may conclude / that M. Doctor hath done very vnaduiſedly / to lay ſo great waight of the archbyſhop vppon S. Cyprians ſhoulders / that w…ilnot only not beare any thing of hym / but which hath done all that coulde be / to make hym goe a foote / and hand in hand with hys fellowes. There are other reaſons which M. Doctor vſeth / as thys / a notable one. S. Cyprian ſpeaketh not of the vſurped power of the byſhop of Rome / therefore he ſpeaketh of the office of an archbyſhop and metropolitane. It is hard to call thys argument to any head of fallation / for it hath not ſo much as a colour of a reaſon / & I thincke it can deceiue no body but your ſelf. An other reaſon is / that all the godlyeſt & beſt learned mē do expound the place of Cyprian in the 3. Epiſt. of the firſt booke of an archbyſhop. The vanitie of thys ſaying / that the godly & learned wryters ſo expound it / I hauehave ſhewed before / and heere it commeth to be conſidered agayne. I will not ſay that no godly nor learned wryter / expoundeth the place of Cyprian of the authoritie of an archbiſhop.

But firſt I deſire M. Doctor to ſet downe but one / and then I will leaue it to thy conſyderation (gentle reader) to thincke / whether M. Doctor hath red any learned or godly mans expoſition to be ſuche / when he hath not red thoſe which are neareſt hym / I meane our owne countrey men. I ſay he hath not red them / becauſe I woulde thinke charitably ſo of hym / rather then that he ſhoulde hauehave red them / and yet ſpeake vntruely of them / and father thoſe things of them / which they neuer ſpeake.

M. Iewell the byſhop of Sariſburie expounded thys place / and yet dyd neuer In hys firſt booke. 4. article / and in dyanſion. 5.expounde it / of the office and authoritie of an archbyſhop of all the byſhops / and clergie of the prouince / but cleane contrarywiſe applyeth it to the authoritie that eueryevery byſhop had in hys dioceſſe / hys wordes are theſe: Now therefore to draw that thing by violence to one only byſhop / that is generally ſpoken of all byſhops / is a guilefull fetch to miſſeleade the reader / and no ſimple nor playne dealing. Heere you ſee that M. Iuel doth not vnderſtande thys of any archbyſhop / but of eueryevery byſhop.

p. 103M. Nowel Deane of Poules / hauing occaſion to ſpeake of this place / ſayth Firſt booke againſte Dorman / and. 25. leafe.on thys ſort. So that when he ſpeaketh (meaning Cyprian) of one byſhop / one iudge in the churche / for the time / or of the byſhop whych is one / and ruleth the church abſolutely / he meaneth eueryevery byſhop in his owne dioceſſe wythout exception. If he ſpeake ſpecially / he meaneth the byſhop of the citye or dioceſe wherof he entreateth / whether it be the byſhop of Rome / Carthage / or any other place.

M. Fore alſo expoundeth thys of eueryevery byſhop wythin hys owne churche 1. Tom. fol. … ▪or dioceſe. You heare the iudgement of theſe three wryters / that can not picke out neyther the name / nor the office of an archbyſhop out of Cyprians place / and yet I thinke you wil not deny / but theſe were learned and godly wryters. Now I hauehave ſhewed you three / I aſke once againe of you one godlye and learned wryter / that expoundeth it as you doe. And by thys time I ſuppoſe all men vnderſtande / what a ſmall friend S. Cyprian is / eyther to the name or office of an archbyſhop. Let vsus heare whether Ierome make any more for the archbyſhop / then did Cyprian.

The Hebrues doe deriue the name of time of a verbe / whych ſignifyeth to corrupt / becauſe in dede it doth corrupt all / and as the times are / ſo are mē which liue in them / that euen very good men carye the note of the infection of the times / wherin they liue / and the ſtreame of the corruption therof / being ſo vehemēt and forcible / doth not only driue before it / light things / but it cateth alſo and weareth the very hard and ſtony rockes / and therfore there is not to be loked for / ſuch ſinceritie at Ierome his hand / whych we found in S. Cyprian / conſidering that he liued ſome ages after Cyprian / what time ſathan had a great deale more darkned the cleare light of the ſonne of the goſpell / then it was in S. Cyprians time. For as thoſe that came neareſt vntounto the apoſtles times / becauſe they were neareſt the light ▪ did ſee beſt / ſo thoſe that were further of from theſe lightes / had / vntill the time of the manifeſtation of the ſonne of perdition their heauens more darke and cloudy / and conſequētly did ſee more dimly / whych is diligently to be obſerued of the reader / bothe the better to vnderſtand the ſtate of thys queſtion / and all other controuerſies whych lie betweene vsus and the papiſtes.

And although Ierome beſides his other faultes / might hauehave alſo in thys matter ſpoken more ſoundly / yet we ſhall eaſely perceiue / that he is a great deale further / from eyther the title or office of an archbyſhop / or elſe from the authority that a byſhop hath with vsus / then he is from the ſimplicity of the miniſtery which ought to be / and is commended vntounto vsus by the worde of God.

And heere I muſt put M. Doctor in remembrance / howe vnfitly he hath dedicated his boke vntounto the churche / whych hath ſo patched it / and peeced it of a number of ſhreds of the doctors / that a ſentence of the ſcripture / eyther truely or falſely alledged / is as it were a Phenix in thys boke. If he would hauehave had the church beleue hym / he oughte to hauehave ſetled their iudgement / and grounded their faith vponupon the ſcriptures / whych are the only foundations whervpon the church may build. Nowe he doth not only not geue them grounde to ſtand of / but he leadeth them into wayes whych they can not folowe / nor come after him. For / except it be thoſe whych are learned / and beſides / hauehave the meanes and abilitye / to hauehave the bokes whych are heere cited (which are the leaſt and ſmalleſt portion of the church) how can they know that theſe things be true whych are alledged / and as I hauehave ſaid / if they could know / yet hauehave they nothing to ſtay them ſelues vponupon / and quiet their conſcience / in allowing that which M. Doctor would ſo faine hauehave them like of. Therefore he might hauehave much more fitly dedicated his booke vntounto the learned and riche / whych hauehave furniſhed libraries.

Ierome ſayeth / that at the firſt / a byſhoppe and an Elder (whych you call prieſt) were all one / but afterward through factions / & ſchiſmes / it was decreed / that one ſhould rule ouer the reſt. Now I ſay againſt this order (that the biſhop p. 104ſhoulde beare rule ouer all) that which our ſauioure Chriſt ſayth vntounto the Phariſes / from the beginning it was not ſo / and therefore I require that the firſt order may ſtande / which was / that a byſhop & elder were all one. And if you place ſo great authoritie agaynſt the inſtitution of God in a mortall man: heare what Tertullian ſayth vntounto you.Contra prax.

That is true / whatſoeuer is firſt: and that is falſe / whatſoeuer is later.

Ierome and you / confeſſe that thys was firſt / that the byſhop was all one with the elder / and firſt alſo by the word of God / then I conclude that that is true. You both doe likewiſe confeſſe that it came after that one bare rule ouer the reſt / then I conclude that that is falſe / for all that is falſe that is later. Furthermore Ierome in the ſame place of Titus ſayth after thys ſort. As the elders know them ſelues to be ſubiect by a cuſtome of the church vntounto hym that is ſet ouer them: ſo the byſhops muſt know that they are greater then the elders / rather by cuſtome then by any truth of the inſtitution of the Lord / and ſo they ought to gouerne the church in common.

Now / ſeing that Ierome confeſſeth that a byſhop and an elder / by God his inſtitution are all one / and that cuſtome of the church hath altered thys inſtitution / for the taking away of thys cuſtome and reſtoring of the Lordes inſtitution / I ſay as our ſauiour Chriſt ſayd / why doe you breake the commaundementes of Math. 15. 3.Matt 15:3God / to eſtabliſhe your owne traditions? for the one is the inſtitution of God / and the other the tradition of the church / and if a mans teſtimony be ſo much with M. Doctor / let hym heare what the ſame Tertullian fayth: whatſoeuer ſauoureth De veland virg.agaynſt the truth / ſhall be accompted hereſie / euen although it be an olde cuſtome. Now I will turne M. Doctors owne argument vponupon hys head / after thys ſorte. In the apoſtles tymes there were ſchiſmes and hereſies / but in their tymes there were no archbyſhops ordayned to appeaſe them / therefore the beſt meanes of compoſing of controuerſies / and keping concorde / is not by hauing an archbyſhop to be ouer a whole prouince. That there was none in the apoſtles tymes / thus it may appeare. If there were any / they were eyther ordayned by the apoſtles and their authoritie / or elſe without / and beſides their authoritie. If there were any without / and beſides their authoritie / then they are therefore to be condemned the more / becauſe in their tymes they ſtarte vp without their warrant. And if the apoſtles dyd ordayne them / there was ſome vſe of them to that wherunto they were ordayned / but there was no vſe of them / to that wherunto they were ordayned / therefore the apoſtles dyd not ordayne them. The vſe wherunto M. Doctor ſayth they were ordayned / was to compoſe controuerſies / and end ſchiſmes / but to thys they were not vſed / whereupon it followeth / that if there were any / they were vnprofitable. That they were not vſed to any ſuch ende / it ſhall be perceiued by that which followeth.

At Antioche there roſe a great and daungerous hereſie / that had in a manner Act. 15. 2.Acts 15:2infected all the churches / which ſhaked the very foundation of the ſaluation of Gods children / that was / whether fayth were ſufficient to iuſtifie without circumciſion. The matter was diſputed of both ſides / it could not be agreed of. What doe they now? Doe they ordayne ſome Archbiſhop / Archprophet / Archapoſtle / or any one cheefe to whome they will referre the controuerſie / or vppon whome they will depend? nothing leſſe. And if they would hauehave had the controtrouerſies ended by one / what deuine was there euer / or ſhall there be more fitter for that purpoſe then S. Paule / which was amongſt them? Why doe they ſende abrode for remedy / when they had it at home? why with great charges and long iourneys / which they might hauehave had without charges / or one foote ſet out of the dore? what doe they then? They ſende Paule and Barnabas to Ieruſalem / as if the leſſer townes / ſhould ſend to the churches of the vniuerſities / and of London / to deſire their helpe in the determining of the controuerſie. And what p. 105is Paule and Barnabas ambaſſage / is it to deſire the iudgement or minde of ſome one? it muſt needes be anſweared wyth S. Luke / that they came to know Acts. 15. 23.Acts 15:23the reſolution of the churche / and yet there were the apoſtles / wherof eueryevery one was better able both ſharply to ſee / and to iudge incorruptly wythout affection / then any archbyſhop that euer was. If therfore in ſo great aboundance & ouerflowing of the gifts of God / and in that time when as controuerſies might hauehave bene referred wythout daunger of error vntounto one only / thys miniſterie of one aboue all / was not thought good: now / when the gifts are les / and the danger of error more / to make an archbyſhop for the deciding of controuerſies / and auoiding of ſchiſmes / is a thing ſo ſtraunge / that I am not able to ſee the reaſon of it. For to whych ſo euer of the apoſtles the controuerſy had bene referred / it is certaine that he would hauehave geuen a true ſentence of it.

And if any can ſhew me one man in theſe times / of whom we may be aſſured / that he will pronounce the truth of eueryevery queſtion whych ſhall ariſe / he ſhall make me ſomewhat more fauorable to the archbyſhop / then preſently I am. For although there were found one ſuch as could not erre / yet I could not conſent that the matter ſhould lye only vponupon his hand / ſeeing that the apoſtles whych could not erre in theſe matters / would not take that vponupon them / and ſeeing that by that meanes the iudgement of the church ſhould be contemned / and further / for that the iudgement of one man in a controuerſy / is not ſo ſtrong to pull vp errors that are rooted in mennes minds / as the iudgement and conſent of many. For / that the iudgement of many is very apt either to confirme a truth / or to cō fute falſhode / it is euident that S. Paule doth hold forth / as it were a buckler 1. Cor. 11. 16. 1. Cor. 14. 33.1 Cor 11:161 Cor 14:33againſt the frowardnes of certaine / the authority of the church.

Furthermore / if this diſtinction came vp in the apoſtles time / and by them / how commeth it to pas / that they neuer mention it / nay / how commeth it to pas that euen S. Paule in that very Epiſtle where theſe voyces are found (I hold of Paule / I of Apollo / I of Cephas whych are ſayd to be the cauſe of the archbyſhop / 1. Cor. 14. 29.1 Cor 14:29) ordaineth a cleane contrary to thys that M. Doctor commendeth? For when two or three prophets hauehave expounded the ſcriptures / he appoynteth that all the reſt that are there / ſhould iudge whether they hauehave done well or no.

And how commeth it to pas that S. Paule being at Rome in priſon / and loking eueryevery day when he ſhould geue vp hys laſt breath / commended vntounto the church a perfect and an abſolute miniſtery / ſtanding of .v. parts / wherin he maketh Epheſ. 4. 11.Eph 4:11mention / not one word of an archbyſhop: and ſayeth further / that that miniſtery is able to entertain the perfect vnity / and knitting togither of the church? Do not all theſe things ſpeake / or rather cry / that there was not ſo much as a ſtep of an archbyſhop / in the apoſtles times? And if you will ſay / that the apoſtles did ordaine archbyſhops (as you hauehave in dede ſayd / & do now againe) when as there is not one word in the wrytings of them / I pray you tell vsus / how we ſhall hold out of the church / the vnwrytten verities of the papiſts? for my part / if it be true that you ſay / I can not tell what to anſwer vntounto them. For our anſwere is to thē / the apoſtles hauehave left a perfect rule of ordering the church wrytten / and therfore we reiect their traditions / if / for no other cauſe / yet becauſe they are ſuperfluous / and more then neede. Now this degree of archbiſhop / being not only not mentioned in the ſcriptures / but alſo manifeſtly oppugned / it is too bold and hardy a ſpeache (that I ſay no more) to fetch the petegree of the archbyſhop / from the apoſtles times / and from the apoſtles them ſelues. But all thys time M. Doctor hath forgotten hys queſtion / whych was to proue an archbyſhop / wheras all theſe teſtimonies whych he alledgeth / make mētion only of a biſhop / and therfore thys may rather confirme the ſtate of the byſhop in this realme / thē the archbyſhop. But in the anſwere vntounto them it ſhall appeare / that as there is not in theſe places ſo much as the name of an archbyſhop mentioned / ſo except p. 106only the name of a biſhop / there ſhalbe found very little agreemēt betwene the biſhops in thoſe dayes / and thoſe whych are called byſhops in our time / & with vsus.

And conſequently / although M. doctor thought wyth one whiting boxe / to hauehave whited two wals (by eſtabliſhing our archbyſhop and byſhop by the ſame teſtimonies of the fathers) yet it ſhalbe plaine / that in going about to defend both / he left both vndefended. Let vsus therfore come firſt / to examine Ieroms reaſons / why one muſt be ouer the reſt / for in the teſtimony of men / that is only to be regarded / whych is ſpoken eyther wyth ſome authority of the ſcripture / or wyth ſome reaſon grounded of the ſcripture: otherwiſe / if he ſpeake wythout eyther ſcripture or reaſon / he is as eaſely reiected as alledged. One (ſayth he) being choſen to be ouer the reſt / bringeth remedy vntounto ſchiſmes: how ſo? leaſt eueryevery man (ſayeth he) drawing to him ſelfe / to breake the church in peeces.

But I would aſke if the church be not in as great danger / when all is done at the pleaſure and luſt of one man / and when one caryeth all into error / as when one pulleth one peece wyth him / another an other peece / and the third hys partalſo wyth him. And it is harder to draw many into an error / then one / or that many ſhould be caryed away by their affections / then one / whych is euident in water / whych if it be but a little / it is quickly troubled and corrupted / but being much / it is not ſo eaſely. But by thys eccleſiaſticall Monarchie / all things are kept in peace: Nay / rather it hath bene the cauſe of diſcord / and well ſpring of moſt horrible ſchiſme / as it is to be ſeene in the very decretals them ſelues. And admit it Decret. part. 2. c. 9. q. 3. & can. Apoſt. 33. & alibi paſsim.were ſo / yet the peace whych is wythout truth / is more execrable thē a thouſand contentions. For / as by ſtriking of two flintes togither / there commeth out fire / ſo it may be / that ſometimes by contention / the truth whych is hidden in a darke peace / may come to light / whych by a peace in naughtines and wickednes / being as it were buryed vnderunder the ground / doth not appeare.

If therfore ſuperiority & domination of one aboue the reſt / hauehave ſuch force to keepe men from ſchiſmes / when they be in the truth / it hath as great force to kepe them togither in error / and ſo beſides that one is eaſier to be corrupted then many / thys power of one bringeth as great incommodity in keping them in error if they fall into it / as in the truth if they are in it. Moreouer / if it be neceſſary for the keping of vnity in the church of England / that one archbyſhop ſhould be primate ouer all / why is it not as meete / that for the keping of the whole vniuerſall church / there ſhould be one archbyſhop / or byſhop ouer all / and the like neceſſity of the byſhop ouer all chriſtendome / as of the byſhop of all England / vnles peraduenture it be more neceſſary / that there ſhould be one byſhop ouer the vniuerſall church / then ouer the church of England / for as much as it is more neceſſary that peace ſhould be kept / and ſchiſmes be auoyded in the vniuerſali church / then in the particulare church of England.

If you ſay that the archbyſhop of England / hath hys authority graunted of the Prince / the Pope of Rome will ſay that Conſtantine or Phocas / whych was Emperor of all chriſtendome / did graunt him hys authority ouer all churches. But you will ſay that it is a lie / but the Pope will ſet as good a face / and make as great a ſhew therin / as you do in diuers poynts here. But admit it to be a lie (as in dede it is touching Conſtantine) yet I ſay further / that it may come to paſſe / & it hath ben / that there may be one Chriſtian Ceſar ouer all the realmes whych hauehave churches. What if he then will geue that authority to one ouer all / that one king graunteth in hys land / may any man accept and take at hys hand ſuch authority? and if it be not lawful for him to take that authority / tel me what fault you can finde in him / whych may not be found in them?

It will be ſayd that no one is able to do the office of a byſhop / vntounto all the whole church / neither is there any one able to do the office of a byſhop to y^e whole church of England. For when thoſe which hauehave ben moſt excellent in knowledge p. 107and wiſedome / and moſt ready and quicke / in doing and diſpatching / matters / being alwayes preſent / hauehave found enough to do to rule and gouerne one ſeuerall congregation: what is he whych (abſent) is able to diſcharge hys duety toward ſo many thouſand churches? And if you take exception / that although they be abſent / yet they may do by vnderunder miniſters / as by Archdeacons / Chauncellors / Officials / Commiſſaries / and ſuch other kinde of people / what doe you elſe ſay / then the Pope / whych ſayeth / that by hys Cardinalles / and archbyſhoppes / and Legates / and other ſuche like / he doeth all things? For wyth their hands he ruleth all / and by their feete he is preſent euerye where / and wyth their eyes he ſeeth what is done in all places. Let them take heede therfore / leaſt if they hauehave a common defence wyth the Pope / that they be not alſo ioyned nearer wyth hym in the cauſe / then peraduenture they be aware of. Truely it is againſt my will / that I am conſtrained to make ſuche compariſons / not that I thinke there is ſo great diuerſity betweene the Popedome and the archbyſhoppricke / but becauſe there being greate reſemblance betweene them / I meane / hauing regarde to the bare functions / wythout reſpecting the doctrine good or badde whych they vpholde / that I ſay there being great reſemblance betweene them: there is yet as I am perſuaded / great difference betweene the parſons that execute them. The whych good opinion conceyued of them / I we moſte humbly beſeeche them by the glory of God / by the libertye of the churche purchaſed by the precious bloude of oure ſauioure Chriſte / and by their owne ſaluation / that they woulde not deceiue / by retaining ſo harde / ſuche exceſſiue and vniuſt dominion ouer the church of the liuing God.

But Ierome ſayth / that this diſtinction of a byſhop / & a miniſter or elder / was from ſ. Marke his time / vntounto Dyoniſius time / wherby M. doctor would make vsus beleeue / that Marke was the author of this diſtinction. But that can not be gathered by Ieromes words. For beſides that things being ordred then by the ſuffrages of the miniſters and elders / it might (as it falleth out of tētimes) be done without the approbation of ſ. Marke: the words (from Marke) may be rather taken excluſiuely / to ſhut oute S. Marke / and the time wherin he liued / then incluſiuely / to ſhut hym in the time wherin thys diſtinction roſe.

How ſo euer it be / it is certaine that S. Marke did not diſtinguiſh & make thoſe thyngs diuers / whych the holy ghoſte made all one. For then (whych the Lord forbid) he ſhoulde make the ſtory of the goſpell whych he wrote / ſuſpected.

Againe / it is to be obſerued that Ierome ſayeth it was ſo in Alexandria: ſignifying therby / that in other churches it was not ſo. And in deede it may appeare in diuers places of the auncient fathers / that they confounded prieſt & byſhop / & toke them for all one / as Euſebius out of Ireneus calleth Anicete / Pius / Teleſphorus / Higinus / xyſtus / presbyterous cai proſtantas, elders / and preſidents. Cyprian confoundeth prieſt and byſhop in the epiſtles before recited / ſo Lib. 5. 26. De dignitate ſacerdotali. 1. Rom. 8.Rom 8doth Ambroſe in the place alledged before by M. doctor / and yet it is one thyng with vsus / to be a prieſt (as M. doctor ſpeaketh) and an other thing to be a biſhop.

Ieruſalem was a famous church / ſo was Rome as the apoſtle witneſſeth / ſo was Antioche and others / where alſo were great contētions / both in doctrine and otherwiſe / and yet for auoiding of contention and ſchiſme there / there was no one that was ruler of the reſt / therfore we ought rather to folowe theſe churches being many / in keping vsus to the inſtitution of the apoſtles / then Alexandria being but one church / and departing from that inſtitution / and if there had bene any one ſet ouer all the reſt in other places / it would hauehave made much for the diſtinction that Ierome had recited. But againſt thys diſtinction of ſ. Ierome / I will vſe no other reaſon / thē that whych Ierome vſeth in the ſame epiſtle to Euagrius. Ierome in that epiſtle / taketh vp very ſharply the archd. that he preferred hym ſelfe before the elder / & the reaſon is / becauſe by the ſcripture y^e deacon is inferior p. 108vntounto the elder. Now therfore Ierome him ſelfe confeſſing that by the ſcripture a byſhop & an elder are equall / by Ieromes owne reaſon / the byſhop is to be ſharply reprehended / becauſe he lifteth hym ſelfe aboue the elder. But what helpeth it you / that there was a byſhop of Alexandria / whych vrge an archbyſhop / or what auauntageth it you / that there was one cheefe called a byſhop in eueryevery ſeuerall congregation / whych would proue that there ought to be one byſhop / chefe ouer a thouſand congregations. What could hauehave bene brought more ſtrong to pull downe the archbyſhop out of hys throne / then that whych Ierome ſayeth there / when he affirmeth that y^e byſhop of the obſcureſt village or hamlet / hath as great authority and dignity as the byſhop of Rome? Eraſmus did ſee this / and ſayd / eironeuomenos, that is ieſtingly / that Ierome ſpake that of the byſhops of hys times / but if he had ſene how the metropolitanes of our age excell other biſhops / he wold hauehave ſpoken otherwiſe. And what could hauehave bene more fit to hauehave confuted the large dominion and ſuperiority of our realme / then that that Ierome ſayth / when he appoynteth the byſhops ſea in an vplandiſhe towne / or in a pore village or hamlet / declaring therby that in eueryevery towne there was a byſhop / and that the biſhop that he ſpeaketh of / differeth nothing at all from an elder / but that the byſhop had the ordaining of the miniſters / whervpon it doth appeare (which I promiſed to ſhew) that by this place of Ierome / there is neither name of archbyſhop / nor ſo much as the ſhadow of his authority / and that the byſhops whych are now / hauehave beſides the name / no ſimilitude almoſt with the byſhops that were in Ieromes time / as for his reaſon / ad Luciferanos, it is the ſame whych he hath / ad Euag. and to Titus / and is already anſweared.

What is that to the purpoſe / that Chryſoſtom ſayth / there muſt be degrees? who denyeth that there are degrees of functions? we confes there is / and ought to be a degree of paſtors / an other of doctors / the third of thoſe whych are called elders / the fourth of deacons. And where he ſayth / there ſhould be one degree of byſhop / another of a miniſter / an other of the lay man / what proueth that for the office of an archbyſhop / whych is your purpoſe to ſhew? how often times muſt you be called ad Rhombum? And that he meaneth nothingles / then to make any ſuch difference betwene a byſhop and a miniſter / as is wyth vsus / which you wold faine make your reader beleue / I will ſend you to Chryſoſtome / vponupon the third chapter. 1. ep. to Timothe / where he ſayeth: The office of a byſhop differeth little or nothing from an elders / and a little after / that a byſhop differeth nothyng from an elder or miniſter / but by the ordination only. Still M. doctor goeth forward in killing a dead man / that is / in confuting that / whych all men condemne / and prouing that whych no man denyeth / that there muſt be ſuperiority amongſt men / and that equality of all men a like / confoundeth all / and ouerthroweth all.

Thys is a notable argument / there muſt be ſome ſuperior among men: ergo, one miniſter muſt be ſuperior to an other. Again / there muſt be in the eccleſiaſtical fūctions / ſome degrees: Ergo, there muſt be an archbiſhop ouer the whole prouince / or a biſhop ouer the whole dioceſe. And all be it M. doctor taketh great paine to proue that whych no man denyeth / yet he doth it ſo euill fauoredly / and ſo vnfitly / as that if a man had no better proufes then he bringeth / the degrees of the eccleſiaſticall functions / myght fall to the ground. For heere to proue the degrees of the eccleſiaſticall functions / he bryngeth in that / that Chryſoſtom ſayth / there muſt be magiſtrate and ſubiect / hym that commaundeth / and hym that obeyeth.

The moſt therefore that he can conclude of thys / for the myniſtery / is / that there muſt be miniſter that ſhall rule / and people that ſhall be obedient / and heereby he can not proue that there ſhould be any degrees amongſt the miniſters / and eccleſiaſticall gouernors / vnles he will ſay peraduenture / that as there are vnderunder Magiſtrates / and a king aboue them all / ſo there ſhould be vnderunder p. 109myniſters / and one myniſter aboue them all. But he muſt remember that it is not neceſſary in a common wealth / that there ſhould be one ouer all / for that there are other good common wealthes / wherein many hauehave lyke power and authoritie. And further / if becauſe there is one king in a lande aboue all / he will conclude there ſhould be one archbyſhop ouer all: I ſay / as I hauehave ſayde / that it is not agaynſt any word of God which I know (although it be inconuenient) but that there may be one Ceſar ouer all the world / and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not ſay / that there may be one archbyſhop ouer all the world.

Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole / where he woulde fayne hyde hym ſelfe / and with hym all the ambition / tyranny / and exceſſe of authoritie / which is ioyned wyth theſe functions of archbyſhoppe / and byſhoppe / as they are now vſed: and thys hys hole is / that all the myniſters are equall with byſhops / and archbyſhops / as touching the myniſterie of the worde and ſacramentes / but not as touching pollicie and gouernment. The papiſtes vſe the very ſelfe ſame diſtinction / for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion / and other their hierarchie.

Maiſter Doctor hath put out the marke / and conceled the name of the papiſtes / and ſo with a little chaunge of wordes / as it were with certayne new coloures / he woulde deceiue vsus. For the papiſtes ſaye / that eueryevery ſyr Iohn or hedge prieſt / hath as great authoritie to ſacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead / and to myniſter the ſacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath / but for gouernment / and for order / the byſhoppe is aboue a prieſt / the archbyſhoppe aboue a byſhoppe / and the Pope aboue them all. But I hauehave declared before out of the ſcriptures / how vayne a diſtinction it is / and it appeareth out of Cyprian / that as all the byſhops were equall one to an other / ſo he ſayth / that to eueryevery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke / not only to feede with the worde and ſacramentes / but to rule and gouerne / not as they which ſhall make any accoumpte vntounto an archbyſhop / or be iudged of hym / but as they which can not bee iudged of any / but of God. And Ierome vponupon Titus ſayeth / that the elder or myniſter dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byſhops / the churche whereof he was elder or myniſter.

After followeth M. Caluin / a great patrone forſoth / of the archbyſhop / or of thys kynde of byſhop which is vſed amongſt vsus heere in Englande. And heere to paſſe ouer your ſtraunge cytations and quotations which you make / to put your anſwerer to payne / ſending hym ſometymes to Muſculus common places for one ſentence / to Auguſtines workes / to Chryſoſtomes workes / to Cyrill / to Maiſter Foxe / and heere ſending hym to the viij. chapter of the inſtitutions / as though you had neuer red Caluins inſtitutions / but tooke the ſentence of ſome bodye elſe / withoute anye examination / whereby it ſeemeth that you were lothe that euer any man ſhould anſwere your booke / letting I ſay all thys paſſe / what maketh thys eyther to proue that there ſhoulde bee one archbyſhoppe ouer all the myniſters in the prouince / or one byſhoppe ouer all in the dioceſe / that amongſt twelue / that were gathered together into one place / there was one which ruled the action / for which they mette? And that it may appeare what ſuperioritie it is / which is lawfull amongſt the myniſters / and what it is that M. Caluin ſpeaketh of / what alſo the fathers and councels doe meane / when they geue more to the byſhoppe of any one church / then to the elder of the ſame church / and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the reſt / to fancie any ſuch authoritie and domination or Lordſhip / as we ſee vſed in our church / it is to be vnderſtanded / that amongſt the paſtors / elders and deacons of eueryevery particulare church / and in the meetinges and companies of the myniſters or elders of dyuers churches / there was one choſen by the voyces and ſuffrages of them all / or the moſt part / which did propound the matters that were to be handled / whether p. 110they were difficulties to be ſoluted / or puniſhmentes and cenſures to be decreed vponupon thoſe which had faulted / or whether there were elections to be made / or what other matter ſo euer occaſion was geuen to entreate of / the which alſo gathered the voyces and reaſons of thoſe which had intereſt to ſpeake in ſuch caſes / whiche alſo did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen / which was alſo the mouth of the reſt / to admoniſhe / or to comfort / or to rebuke ſharply / ſuch as were to receiue admoniſhment conſolation / or rebuke / and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action / which was done for the time they were aſſembled: which thing we do not deny / may be / but affirme that it is fitte & neceſſary to be / to the auoyding of confuſion. For it were an abſurde hearing that many ſhould at once attempt to ſpeake / neyther coulde it be done without great reproch / that many men beginning to ſpeake / ſome ſhould be bidden to holde their peace / which would come to paſſe / if there ſhould be no order kept / nor none to appoynt / when eueryevery one ſhould ſpeake or not / to put them to ſilence / when they attempted confuſedly to ſpeake / and out of order. Moreouer when many miniſters mete together / and in ſo great dyuerſitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church / there be founde that excell in memory / facilitie of tong / and expedition or quickneſſe to diſpatche matters more then the reſt / and therefore it is fitt / that the brethren that hauehave that dexteritie / ſhoulde eſpecially be preferred vntounto thys office / that the action may be the better / and more ſpedely made an ende of.

And if any man will call thys a rule or preſidentſhip / and hym that executeth thys office a preſident or moderator / or a gouernour / we will not ſtriue / ſo that it be with theſe cautions / that he be not called ſimply gouernor or moderator / but gouernor or moderator of that action / and for that time / and ſubiect to the orders that others be / & to be cenſured by the company of the brethren / as wel as others / if he be iudged any way faulty. And that after that action ended / & meeting diſſolued / he ſitte hym downe in hys olde place / and ſet hym ſelfe in equall eſtate with the reſt of the miniſters. Thirdly / that thys gouernment or preſidentſhip / or what ſo euer lyke name you will geue it / be not ſo tyed vntounto that miniſter / but that at the next meeting it ſhall be lawfull to take an other / if an other bee thought meeter. Of thys order and pollicy of the church / if we will ſee a liuely image and perfect paterne / let vsus ſet before our eyes / the moſt auncient and goſpel like church that euer was or ſhall be.

In the actes / the church being gathered together for the election of an Apoſtle into the place of Iudas the traytor / when as the intereſt of election belonged vntounto all / and to the apoſtles eſpecially aboue the reſt / out of the whole company Peter riſeth vp / telleth the cauſe of their comming together / with what 1. Act. 15.Acts 15cautions and qualities they ought to chuſe an other / conceyueth the prayer wherby the helpe of God in that election / and his direction is begged / and no doubt executed the reſidue of the things which pertayned vntounto the whole action.

In the ſeconde of the actes / all the Apoſtles are accuſed of drunkenneſſe / Peter anſweareth for thē all / wypeth away the infamy they were charged with. But you will ſay / where are the voyces of the reſt / which did chuſe Peter vntounto thys. Firſt / you muſt know that the ſcripture ſetteth not downe eueryevery circumſtāce / & then ſurely you do Peter great iniury / that aſke whether he were choſen vntounto it. For is it to bee thought / that Peter would thruſt in hym ſelfe to this office or dignitie without the conſent and allowance of hys fellowes / and preuent hys fellowes of thys preheminence? vndoubtedly / if it hadde not beene done arrogantly / yet it muſt needes hauehave a great ſhew of arrogancye / if hee hadde done thys without the conſent of hys fellowes. And heere you ſhall heare what the Scholiaſt ſayth / which gathereth the iudgement of Greke diuines hora (ſpeaking of Peter) panta meta koines auton gnomes poiounta. Behold / how he doth p. 111all with their common conſent. And if any man hereupon will ſay / that Peter exerciſed domination ouer the reſt / or gate any archapoſtleſhip / beſide that y^e whole ſtory of the actes of the apoſtles / and his whole courſe of life doth refute that: the ſame Scholiaſt which I made mention of in the ſame place / ſayth he did nothing / archikos, imperiouſly / nothing meta exouſias, with domynion or power. Further / I will admoniſhe him to take heede / leaſt if he ſtriue ſo ſore for the archbyſhop / he ſlide or euer he be aware into the tentes of the papiſtes / which vſe theſe places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the reſt of the apoſtles.

And that it may bee vnderſtanded / that thys moderate rule / voyde of all pompe and outward ſhew / was not perpetuall / nor alwayes tyed vntounto one man (which were the laſt poyntes of the cautions I put before) turne vntounto the 15. of the Actes / where is ſhewed / how with the reſt of the church / the apoſtles / and amongſt them Peter being aſſembled to decide a great controuerſie / Iames the Act. 15. 13.Acts 15:13Apoſtle / and not Peter / moderated and gouerned the whole action / when as after other had ſayd their iudgementes / and namely Paule and Barnabas / & Peter / he in the ende / in the name of all / pronounced the ſentence / and that whereof the reſt agreed / and had diſputed vntounto / and the reſidue reſted in that iudgement / the which alſo may likewyſe appeare in the 21. of the Actes. This is hee which Act. 21. 20.Acts 21:20is called the byſhop in eueryevery church / thys is he alſo whome Iuſtin wherof mention is made afterwardes / calleth proeſtos. And finally / thys is that great archbiſhoppricke / and great biſhoppricke that M. Doctor ſo often ſtumbleth on. This order and preheminence / the Apoſtles time / and thoſe that were neare them kept / and the nearer they came to the apoſtles times / the nearer they kept them to this order / and the farther of they were from thoſe times / vntill the diſcouering of the ſonne of perdition / the further of were they from thys moderation / and nearer to that tyranny and ambitious power / which oppreſſed and ouerlayde the churche of God.

And therefore maiſter Caluin doth warely ſay / that one amongſt the apoſtles indefinitely / not any one ſingular perſon (as Peter) had the moderation and rule of the other / and further ſhadoweth out what rule that was / by the example of the conſul of Rome / whoſe authoritie was / to gather the ſenate together / & to tell of the matters which were to be handled / to gather y^e voyces / to pronounce the ſentence. And although the Antichriſt of Rome had peruerted all good order / and taken all libertie of the church into hys / the Cardinalles / Archbiſhops / and Byſhoppes handes / yet there are ſome colde and lyght footinges of it in our ſynodes / which are holden with the parliament / where amongſt all the myniſters which are aſſembled out of all the whole realme / by the more part of voyces / one to choſen which ſhould goe before the reſt / propounde the cauſes / gather the voyces / and bee as it were the mouth of the whole company / whome they terme the prolocutor. Suche great force hath the truthe / that in the vtter ruines of Popery / it could neuer be ſo pulled vp by the rootes that a man coulde neuer know the place thereof no more / or that it ſhoulde not leaue ſuche markes and printes behinde it / whereby it myght afterwardes recouer it ſelfe / and come agayne to the knowledge of men.

Now you ſee what authoritie we allow amongſt the miniſters / both in their ſeuerall churches / or in prouinciall ſinodes / or nationall / or generall / or what ſo euer other meetinges ſhall be aduiſed of for the profite and edifying of the church / and withall you ſee / that as we are farre from thys tyranny and exceſſiue power which now is in the church / ſo we are (by the grace of God) as farre from confuſion and diſorder / wherein you trauell ſo much to make vsus to ſeeme giltie.

M. Doctor reaſoneth agayne / that Paule an Apoſtle / and in the higheſt degree of miniſterie / was ſuperior to Timothe and Titus Euangeliſtes / and ſo in a lower degree of myniſterie / therefore one myniſter is ſuperior to an other / p. 112one byſhop to an other byſhop / whych are all one office / and one function. As if I ſhuld ſay my Lord Mayor of London is aboue the ſherifes / therfore one ſherife is ſuperior to an other. Again / an other argumēt he hath of the ſame ſtrēgth. Titus being an Euangeliſt / was ſuperior to al the paſtors in Crete / which was a degree vnderunder the Euangeliſts / therfore one paſtor muſt be ſuperior vntounto an other paſtor. And that he was ſuperior / he proueth becauſe he had authority to ordaine paſtors / ſo that the print of the archbyſhop is ſo deepely ſet in his head / that hereof he can imagine nothing / but that Titus ſhuld be archbiſhop of all Crete.

I hauehave ſhewed before / how theſe words are to be taken of S. Paule: and for ſo much as M. Doctor burdeneth vsus wyth the authority of Caluin ſo often / I wil ſend him to Caluins owne interpretation vponupon this place / wher he ſheweth y^e Titus did not ordaine by his owne authority / for ſ. Paul wold not graunt Titus leaue to do that / whych he him ſelf wold not / and ſheweth that to ſay that Titus ſhould make the election of paſtors by him ſelfe / is to giuegive vntounto hym a princely authority / and to take away the election from the church / and the iudgement of the inſufficiency of the miniſter from the company of the paſtors / whych were (ſayeth he) to prophane the whole gouernment of the church.

I maruell therfore what M. doctor meaneth to be ſo buſy wyth M. Caluin / and to ſeke confirmation of his archbyſhop and byſhop at him / whych wold hauehave ſhaken at the naming of the one / and trembled at the office of the other / onles it be becauſe he would faine hauehave hys plaiſter where he receiued hys wound / but I dare aſſure him / that in his garden / he ſhall neuer finde the herbe that wil heale him. And becauſe that the ſcriptures when they make for our cauſe / receiue this anſwer commonly / that they ſerued but for the apoſtles times / and M. Caluins authority will wey nothing as I thinke wyth M. Doctor / when he is alledged by vsus againſt hym / I wil ſend hym to the Greke Scholiaſte / whych vponupon this place of Titus ſayth after this ſort. He would not (ſpeaking of ſ. Paule) hauehave the whole Ile of Crete / miniſtred and gouerned by one / but that eueryevery one ſhould hauehave hys proper charge and care / for ſo ſhould Titus hauehave a lighter labor / and the people that are gouerned / ſhould enioy greater attendance of the paſtor / whileſt he that teacheth them / doth not run about the gouernment of many congregations / but attendeth vntounto one / and garniſheth that.

Now M. Doctor may ſee by this / that Titus (by the iudgement of the Scholiaſte) was not as he fanſieth / the archbyſhop of all Crete / but that he had one flocke / whervpon (for the time he was there) he attended. And that where it is ſayd he ordained miniſters / it is nothing elſe / but that he was the cheefe and the moderator in the election of the miniſters / as I hauehave declared before by many examples. And it is no maruell / although the reſt graunted hym thys preheminence / when he had both moſt excellent gifts / and was a degree aboue the paſtors / being an Euangeliſt.

VntoUnto the place of Timothe / where he willeth him not to admit an accuſation againſt an elder vnderunder two or three witneſſes / I anſwer as I hauehave done before to the place of Titus / that is / that as the ordination of the paſtors is attributed vntounto Titus and Timothe / becauſe they gouerned and moderated that action / and were the firſt in it / ſo alſo is the depoſing or other cenſures of them / and that for as much as he wryteth hys epiſtles vntounto Timothe & Titus / he telleth them how they ſhould behaue them ſelues in their office / and doth not ſhut out other from this cenſure and iudgement. And it is more agreable to the inſcription of the epiſtles / that he ſhould ſay (admit not thou / or ordain not thou) wryting vntounto one / then if he ſhould ſay (ordaine not ye / or admit not ye) as if he ſhould wryte to many / for ſo ſhould neyther the ending agree wyth the beginning / nor the midſt wyth them both. And if this be a good rule / that becauſe Paul biddeth Timothe and Titus to iudge of the faults of the paſtors / and to ordain paſtors / p. 113therfore none elſe did but they: Then whereas S. Paule biddeth Timothe that 1. Tim. 4. 8. 1:1 Tim 4:81 Tim 4:1he ſhould commaund & teach / that godlines is profitable to all things / & admoniſheth him to be an example of the whole flocke / by your reaſon he wil hauehave no other of y^e myniſters of Epheſus / or of the Ile of Creta / to teach that doctrine / or to be examples to their flockes / & an hundreth ſuch things in the Epiſtles of Timothe and Titus / which although they be there particularly directed vntounto Timothe / and Titus / yet do they agree / & are common to them / with all other myniſters / yea ſometimes vntounto the whole flocke.

As for Epiphanius / it is knowne of what authoritie he is in this place / when as by Aerius ſides / he goeth about to pricke at the Apoſtle / whileſt he goeth about to confute the Apoſtle which maketh a diſtinction and difference betwene thoſe which the Apoſtle maketh one / that is / a byſhop and an elder / and to ſpare the credite of Epiphanius / it were better lay that opinion vponupon ſome Pſeudepiphanius, that is to ſay counterfaite / which we may do / not without great probabilitie / ſeeing **Ad quod vult Deum.Auguſtine ſayth / that the true Epiphanius vttereth all after a ſtory faſhion / and doth not vſe any diſputation / or reaſoning for the truth agaynſt the falſhode / and thys Epiphanius is very full of argumentes and reaſons / the choyſe whereof M. Doctor hath taken.

And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambroſe / Caluin / and other godly wryters / to proue that the myniſter is vnderſtanded by the word elder or presbiter, he keepeth hys olde wont / by bringing ſtickes into the woode / and prouing alwayes that which no man denyeth: and yet with the myniſter of the word / he alſo vnderſtandeth the elder of the church which ruleth / and doth not labor in the word. But therein is not the matter / for I doe graunt that by presbiter, the myniſter of the word is vnderſtanded / & yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would ſo fayne proue. It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the admonition for want of logicke / for you vtter great ſkill your ſelfe in wryting / which keepe no order / but confound your reader in that thing / which euen the common logicke of the countrey / which is reaſon / might hauehave directed you in. For what a confuſion of times is thys / to begin with Cyprian / and then come to Ierome and Chryſoſtome / and after to the ſcripture / and backe agayne to Ignatius / that was before Cyprian / which times are ill diſpoſed of you / and that in a matter wherein it ſtode you vponupon to hauehave obſerued the order of the tymes. But as for Ignatius place it is ſufficiently anſwered before in that which was anſwered to Cyprian hys place / for when he ſayth the byſhop hath rule ouer all / he meaneth no more all in the prouince / then in all the worlde / but meaneth that flocke & congregation / whereof he is byſhop or myniſter. And when he calleth hym prince of the prieſtes / although the title be to exceſſiue and bigge / condemned by Cyprian and the councell of Carthage / yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the dioceſe as we take it / or of the prouince / then he meaneth the Prince of all the prieſtes in the world: but thoſe fellow myniſters and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particulare church and congregation / whereof he was byſhop / as the great churches hauehave for the moſt part both elders which gouerne only / and myniſters alſo to ayde one an other / and the principalitie that hee which they called the byſhop had ouer the reſt / hath bene before at large declared.

But M. Doctor doth not remember that whileſt hee thus reaſoneth for the authoritie of the byſhoppe / hee ouerthroweth hys archbyſhoppe quite and cleane / for Ignatius will hauehave none aboue the byſhop but Chriſt / and hee will hauehave an archbyſhop.

I ſee a man can not well ſerue two maiſters / but eyther he muſt diſpleaſe the one / and pleaſe the other / or by pleaſing of one / offend the other. For M. Doctor would fayne pleaſe / and vpholde both / and yet hys proufes are ſuch / that eueryevery prop that he ſetteth vnderunder one / is an axe to ſtrike at the other. But that M. p. 114D. delyteth alwayes wher he might fetch at y^e fountaine / to be raking in ditches / he needed not to hauehave gone to Iuſtin Martyr for Proeſtos, when as S. Paule 1. Tim. 5. 17.1 Tim 5:17calleth the myniſters & Elders by thys title. And if thys place of Iuſtin make for an archbyſhop / then in ſtead of an archbyſhop in eueryevery prouince / we ſhal hauehave one in eueryevery congregation. For Iuſtin declareth there / the Leyturgie or maner of ſeruing God that was in eueryevery church vſed of the Chriſtians. And I pray you let it be conſidered / what is the office of that proeſtos, and ſee whether there be any reſemblance in the world / betwene hym and an archbyſhop. For he placeth hys office to be in preaching / in conceiuing prayers / in myniſtring of the ſacramentes. Of any commaundement which he had ouer the reſt of the myniſters / or of any ſuch priuiledges as the archbyſhop hath / he maketh not one worde. It may be / that the ſame myght hauehave the preheminence of calling the reſt together / and propounding the matter to the reſt of the company / and ſuch lyke as is before declared. As ſoone as euer you found proeſtos, you ſnatched that by and by / and went your wayes / and ſo deceyue your ſelfe and others. But if you had red the whole treatiſe / you ſhould hauehave founde that he was proeſtos, of the people / for thus it is written in the ſame Apologie / Epeita proſpheretai to Proeſtoti ton adelphon artos. Afterwarde bread is brought to the preſident of the brethren calling the people as S. Paule doth continually brethren. And therefore theſe are M. Doctors argumentes oute of Martyrs place. There was a myniſter which dyd ſtande before / or was preſident of the reſt in eueryevery particulare church and congregation / therefore there was an archbyſhoppe ouer all the prouince. And agayne / there was one which ruled the people in eueryevery congregation / therfore there was one that ruled all the myniſters through out the whole prouince. And albeit things were in great puritie in the dayes that Iuſtin liued / in reſpect of the tymes which followed / yet as there was in other things (which appeare in hys workes / and euen in the miniſtration of the ſacramentes ſpoken of in that place) corruption / in that they mingled water and wine together / ſo euen in the miniſterie / there began to peepe out ſome thing which went from the ſimplicitie of the goſpel / as that the name of proeſtos, which was common to the elders with the miniſters of the word / was (as it ſeemeth) appropriated vntounto one.

Another of M. Doctors reaſons / for to proue the archbyſhop / is / that Cyrill maketh mention of an high prieſt / wherunto I anſwere / that he that bringeth in a prieſt into the church / goeth about to bury our ſauiour Chriſt / for although it myght be proued that the worde prieſt were the ſame with the Greekes presbyteros, yet (as ſhall appeare in hys place) is the vſe of thys word (prieſt) for a myniſter of the goſpell very daungerous. And as for hym that bringeth in an high prieſt into the church / hee goeth about to put our ſauiour Chriſt out of hys office / who is proued in the Epiſtle to the Hebrues to be the only high prieſt / and Hebru. 7.that there can be no more as long as the worlde endureth. And yet if all thys were graunted / you are not yet come to that which you deſire to proue / that is / an archbyſhoppe. For if you looke in Theodorete / you ſhall fynde thys woorde 1. Lib. 3. cap.archieroſyne, which ſignifyeth the highe prieſthoode / to be nothing elſe but a byſhoppricke / and in the. 7. chapter of that booke / and ſo forth dyuers tymes / you ſhall hauehave archiereus, taken for a byſhop / as ſpeaking of the councel of Nice / he ſayth that there was. 318. archiereis, highe prieſtes. Now I thincke you wil not ſay there were. 318. archbyſhops. If you do / you are confuted by all eccleſiaſticall wryters that euer I red / which ſpeaking of them / call them byſhops.