A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 27 (3 of 3)

A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift · Reply · Part 27 (3 of 3)

p. 114Chryſoſtome followeth / which as M. Doctor ſayth / ruled not only the church of Conſtantinople / but the churches of Thracia / Aſia / and Pontus / & he ſayth it out of Theodorete. But heerin it may appeare / that eyther M. Doctor hath a very euill conſcience in falſifying wryters / & that in the poyntes which he in controuerſie / or elſe he hath taken hys ſtuffe of certayne at the ſeconde hand p. 115without any examination of it at all. For heere he hath ſet downe in ſtead of (had care of the churches in Thracia. &c.) ruled the churches / the Greke is / epoieito ten promethcian, it is tranſlated alſo (proſpexit) ſo that it appeareth he fetched it neyther from Theodorite in Greeke nor in Latine. And what is thys to proue an archbyſhoppe / that he had care of theſe churches? there is no miniſter but ought to hauehave care ouer all the churches through chriſtendome / and to ſhew that care for them / in comforting or admoniſhing of them by wryting / or by viſiting them / if the neceſſitie ſo require / and it be thought good by the churches / and leaue obtayned of the place where he is myniſter / vppon ſome notable and eſpeciall cauſe / being ſome man of ſingular giftes / whoſe learning and credite may profite much to the bringing to paſſe of that thing / for the which he is to be ſent. After thys ſort * S. Cyprian being in Affricke / had care ouer Rome in Europe / and wrote As it appeareth by diuers epiſtles of his. Euſeb. lib. 5. cap. 3. & 4.vntounto the church there. After thys ſort alſo was * Ireneus byſhoppe of Lions / ſent by the French churches vntounto the churches in Phrigia. And after thys ſort hauehave M. Caluin / and M. Beza bene ſent from Geneua in Sauoy / to the churches of Fraunce.

Now / if you will conclude heereupon / that Cyprian ruled the churche of Rome / or Ireneus the churches of Phrigia / or maiſter Caluin / or M. Beza the churches of Fraunce / or that they were byſhops or archbyſhops of thoſe places / you ſhall but conclude as you were wont to doe / but yet all men vnderſtand / that heere is nothing leſſe then an archbyſhop / or any ſuch byſhoppe / as we hauehave and vſe in our church. And if ſo be that Chryſoſtome ſhould be byſhop or archbyſhop of al theſe churches which were in al Aſia / Pontus / Thracia / as you wold geue the reader to vnderſtand / you make hym byſhop of more churches / then euer the Pope of Rome was / when he was in hys greateſt pryde / and hys Empire largeſt. For there were ſixe preſidentſhips in Thracia / and in Aſia there were a eleuen Princes / and had ſeuerall regions or gouernmentes / and in Pontus as many / and if he were byſhop or archbyſhop of all the churches within theſe dominions / he had neede of a long ſpone to feede with all. It is certayne therefore / that he was byſhop only of the church in Conſtantinople / and had an eye & a care to thoſe other churches. And that he was byſhop of one citie / or of one church / it may appeare by that which I hauehave before alleaged oute of the Greeke Scholiaſte vponupon Titus / who citeth there Chryſoſtome / where it is ſayd that S. Paule dyd not meane to make one ouer the whole Ile / but that eueryevery one ſhould hauehave hys proper congregation. &c. * And in an other place he ſheweth the difference 3. hom. act. 6.betweene the Emperour and the byſhop / that the one is ouer the world / and the other that is the byſhop / is ouer one citie.

Touching Theodorete byſhop of Cyrus / to let pas that which the biſhops of Egipt cryed in the councell of Calcedon / that he was no biſhop / it is to be obſerued / In the 1. act. In the ſame act.that which the Emperoures Theodoſius and Valentinian / wryte vntounto Dioſcorus biſhop of Alexandria / that he had commaunded Theodoret byſhop of Cyrus / that he ſhould kepe hym ſelfe vntounto hys owne church only: wherby it appeareth / that he medled in moe churches then was mete he ſhould. Beſides / that wanteth not ſuſpition y^e he ſpeaketh this of him ſelfe / eſpecially when he ſayth / y^e there was not in all thoſe. 800. churches one tare / y^e is / one hypocrite or euil mā.

Now / that it may appeare what great lykelyhoode there is betwene thys Theodoret / and our Lord byſhops and archbyſhops / it is to be conſidered which he wryteth of hym ſelfe in the Epiſtle vntounto Leo / that is / that he hauing bene. 26. yeares byſhop / was knowne of all that dwelt in thoſe partes / that he had neuer houſe of hys owne / nor field / nor halfepennie / not ſo much as a place to be buryed in / but had willingly contented hym ſelfe with a poore eſtate / belyke he had a very leane archbyſhoppricke. And if the fat morſels of our byſhopprickes & archbiſhopprickes / were taken & employed to their vſes of maintenance of the pore / & of p. 116the myniſters / and of the vniuerſities / which are the ſeede of the myniſterie / I thincke the heate of the diſputation / and contention for archbyſhops and biſhops / would be cooled.

Now good reader thou heareſt what M. Doctor hath bene able to take together out of the olde fathers / which he ſayth are ſo playne in thys matter / and yet can ſhew nothing to the purpoſe. Heare alſo what he ſayth out of the wryters of our age / all which he ſayth (except one or two) are of hys iudgement / and allow well of thys diſtinction of degrees.

Maiſter Caluin firſt is cited / to proue thoſe offices of archbyſhop / primate / patriarche / the names whereof he can not abyde / and as for hym he approueth only / that there ſhould be ſome ▪ which when difficult cauſes ariſe / which can not bee ended in the particulare churches might referre the matters to ſinodes and prouinciall councels and which myght do the offices which I hauehave ſpoken of before of gathering voyces. &c.

But that he lyketh not of thoſe dominations and large iuriſdictions or at all of the byſhoppes or archbyſhops / which we hauehave now / it may appeare playnly enough / both in that place / when as he will hauehave hys wordes drawen to no other then the olde byſhoppes / ſhutting out thereby the byſhoppes that now are / as alſo in other places / and namely vponupon the Philippians / where (reaſoning agaynſt Chap. 1.thys diſtinction betwene paſtor and byſhop / and ſhewing that geuing the name of byſhop to one man only in a church / was the occaſion why he afterward vſurped domynation ouer the reſt) he ſayth after thys ſort: In deede I graunt (ſayth he) as the diſpoſitions and manners of men are / order can not ſtande amongſt the myniſters of the woorde / vnleſſe one be ouer the reſt / I meane (ſayth he) of eueryevery ſeuerall and ſinguler body / not of a whole prouince / much leſſe of the whole worlde.

Now if you will needes hauehave M. Caluins archbyſhop / you muſt not hauehave hym neyther ouer a prouince nor dioceſe / but only ouer one ſinguler and particuler congregation. How much better therefore were it for you to ſeeke ſome other ſhelter againſt the ſtorme then maiſter Caluins / which will not ſuffer you by any meanes to couer your ſelfe vnderunder hys winges / but thruſteth you out alwayes as ſoone as you enter vponupon him forceably.

But heere I can not let paſſe M. Doctors ill dealing / which recyting ſo much of maiſter Caluin / cutteth hym of in the waſte and leaueth quite out that which made agaynſt hym / that is which maiſter Caluin …ayth in theſe wordes: Although (ſayth he) in thys diſputacion / it may not be paſſed ouer / that this office of archbyſhop or patriarke was moſt rarely and ſeldome vſed / which dealing ſemeth to proceede of a very euill conſcience.

Then followeth Hemingius / who you ſay approueth theſe degrees of archbiſhop / metropolitane / byſhop / archdeacon / for ſo you muſt needes meane / when you ſay he approueth theſe degrees / or els you ſay nothing / for there vponupon is the queſtion. Now how vntruely you ſpeake (let it be iudged by that which followeth. * Firſt he ſayth that our ſauiour Chriſt in S. Luke diſtinguiſheth and putteth c. 10. 3. claſ. lib. Enchirid. where alſo among the popiſh orders / he reckneth the archb.a difference / betwene the office of a Prince and the office of the miniſter of the church / leauing domynion to the Princes / and taking it altogether from the myniſters. Here you ſee / not only how he is agaynſt you in your expoſition in the place of S. Luke / which wold hauehave it nothing elſe but a prohibition of ambitiō / but alſo how at a word / he cutteth the throte of your archbyſhop and byſhop / as it is now vſed. And afterward ſpeaking of y^e churches of Denmarke / he ſayth they hauehave Chriſt for their head & for the outwarde diſcipline / they hauehave magiſtrates to puniſh with the ſword / & for to exerciſe the Eccleſiaſticall diſciplyne / they hauehave biſhops / paſtors / doctors / which may keepe men vnderunder with the word / without vſing any corporall puniſhment. Here is no mention of archbyſhops / Primates p. 117metropolitanes. And although he ſheweth that they kepe the diſtinction betwene byſhops and miniſters / againſt whych there hath bene before ſpoken: yet he ſayth that the authority which they hauehave / is as the authority of a father / not as the power of a maiſter / whych is far otherwiſe heere. For the condition of many ſeruaunts vnderunder their maiſters / is much more free then the condition of a miniſter vnderunder hys byſhop. And afterward he ſheweth wherin that authority or dignity of the byſhop ouer the miniſter lyeth / that is in exhorting of him / in chiding of hym / as he doth the lay people / and yet he will hauehave alſo the miniſter / although not with ſuch authority / after a modeſt ſort to do the ſame vntounto the byſhop. And ſo he concludeth / that they retain theſe orders / notwithſtanding the anabaptiſts. Now let the reader iudge / whether Hemingius be truely or faithfully alledged or no / or whether Hemingius do ſay that they hauehave in their church archbiſhops / primates / metropolitanes / archdeacons / or whether the byſhops in the churches of Denmarke / are any thing like oures. For I will omit that he ſpeaketh there againſt all pomp in the miniſtery / all worldly ſuperiority or highnes / becauſe I louelove not to wryte out whole pages / as M. Doctor doth out of other mens wrytings / to helpe to make vp a boke.

M. doctor cloſeth vp this matter wyth M. Foxe / but eyther for feare that the place ſhould be found that there might be anſwer / or for feare that M. Foxe ſhould giuegive me the ſolution whych hath giuen you the obiection / he wold neither quote the place of the boke / nor the boke it ſelf / he hauing wrytten diuers. You cā not ſpeake ſo much good of M. Foxe / whych I will not willingly ſubſcribe vntounto. And if it be any declaration of good will and of honor / that one beareth to an other / to read that whych he wryteth / I thinke I hauehave red more of him / then you. For I hauehave red ouer his boke of Martyrs / and ſo I thinke did neuer you. For if you had red ſo diligently in M. Foxe / as you hauehave ben haſty to ſnatch at Pag. 78. of the boke of Act.this place / he would hauehave taught you the forgery of theſe Epiſtles / whereout you fetch your authorities / and would hauehave ſhewed you that the diſtinguiſhing of the orders of metropolitanes / biſhops / and other degrees / whych you ſay ſometimes had their beginnings in the apoſtles times / ſomtimes you can not tell whē / were not in Higinus time / which was a. 180. yeres after Chriſt. I perceiue you fear M. Foxe is an ennemy vntounto your archbyſhop and primate / & therfore it ſeemeth you went about to corrupt hym wyth hys praiſe / and to ſeeke to drawe hym / if it were poſſible / vntounto the archbyſhop / and if not / yet at the leaſt that he would be no ennemy / if he would not / nor could not be his frend. You make me ſuſpect that your praiſe is not harty / but pretended / becauſe you do ſo often & ſo bitterly ſpeake againſt all thoſe that will not receiue the cap and ſurplice / and other ceremonies / wherof M. Fox declareth his great miſliking. For anſwer vntounto y^e place / becauſe I remēber it not / nor meane not to read ouer y^e whole boke to ſeeke it / I ſay firſt as I ſaid before / that there may be ſome thing before or after / which may geue the ſolution to this place / eſpecially ſeeing M. Foxe in another place / prouing the 1. Tom. Act. pag. 96.Epiſtles of Stephanus to be counterfet / he vſeth thys reaſon: becauſe the fifthe Canon of the ſayd Epiſtles / ſolemnely entreateth of the difference betwene primates / metropolitanes / and archbyſhops / whych diſtinction (ſayth he) of titles and degrees / ſauor more of ambition thē perſecution. Moreouer I ſay / that M. Foxe wryting a ſtory / doth take greater paine / and loketh more diligently to declare what is done / and in what time / and by whom / then how iuſtly or vniuſtly / how conueniently or inconueniently it is done. Laſt of all / if any thing be ſpoken there to the hinderance of the ſincerity of the goſpell / I am well aſſured that M. Foxe / whych hath trauailed ſo much and ſo profitably to that end / will not hauehave hys authority or name therin to bring any preiudice. Now wil I alſo wyne with you / and leaue it to the iudgement of the indifferent reader / how well out of the ſcriptures / councels / wryters old and new / you hauehave proued either the lawfulnes p. 118at all of the names of archbiſhops / patriarches / archdeacons / primates / or of the lawfulnes of the office of them / and of byſhops whych be in our times.

And for as much as I hauehave purpoſed to anſwer in one place / that which is ſcattered in diuers / I will heere anſwere halfe a ſhete of paper / whych is annexed of late vntounto thys boke put forthe in the name / and vnderunder the credite of the B. of Saliſbury. Wherin I wil ſay nothyng of thoſe byting & ſharpe words / which are giuen partly in the beginning / when he calleth the propounders of the propoſition whych concerneth archbyſhops and archdeacons nouices / partly in the end when he calleth them children / and the doctrine of the goſpell wantonnes. &c. If he had liued / for hys learning and grauitye / and otherwyſe good deſertes of the church / in defending the cauſe therof agaynſt the papiſtes / we coulde hauehave eaſely borne it at hys handes: nowe he is deade and layde vp in peace / it were agaynſte all humanitye to dygge or to breake vp hys graue / only I wil leaue it to the conſideration of the reader vponupon thoſe things whych are alledged / to iudge / whether it be any wantonnes or noueltye whych is confirmed by ſo graue teſtimonyes of the auncient worde of God. VntoUnto the place of the. 4. of the Epheſians before alledged / he anſweareth cleane contrary to that whych M. Doctor ſayth / that we hauehave nowe neyther Apoſtles / nor Euangeliſts / nor Prophets / wherevppon he wold conclude that that place is no perfect paterne of the miniſtery in the church. In deede it is true / we hauehave not / neyther is it nedefull that wee ſhould. It was therfore ſufficient that there were once / and for a time / ſo that the wante of thoſe nowe / is no cauſe whye the minyſteries there recited / be not ſufficient for the accomplyſhment and full fyniſhing of the church / nor cauſe whye anye other minyſteries ſhould be added / beſydes thoſe whych are there recyted.

Afterward he ſaith / that neither byſhop nor elder are reckned in that place. The paſtor is there reckened vp / and I hauehave ſhewed / that the paſtor and byſhop / are all one / and are but dyuers names to ſignifye one thyng. And as for thoſe elders whych doe only gouerne / they are made mention of in other places / the apoſtles purpoſe being to recken vp here only / thoſe minyſteries / whych are conuerſant in the worde as I hauehave before alledged / and therefore the byſhop and elder whych wyth gouernment teache alſo are there contained.

After that / he ſayeth there is no catechiſta, if there be a paſtor / or as ſome thynke Doctor / there is one whych bothe can / and ought to inſtruct the youth / neyther doth it pertayne to any other in the churche / and publykely to teache the youth in the rudiments of religion / then vntounto eyther the paſtor or doctor / how ſo euer in ſome times and places / they hauehave made a ſeuerall office of it.

And where he ſayth that there is neyther deacon nor reader mentioned / for the deacon I hauehave anſweared that ſ. Paul ſpeaketh there only of thoſe functiōs whych are occupyed both in teachyng and gouernyng the churches / and therfore there was no place there to ſpeake of a deacon / and as for the reader / it is no ſuch office in the churche / whych the miniſter may not doe. And if eyther he hauehave not leyſure / or his ſtrength and voyce wil not ſerue hym / firſt to read ſome long time / and afterwarde to preache: it is an eaſye matter to appoynt ſome of the elders or deacons / or ſome other graue man in the church to that purpoſe / as it hathe bene practiſed in the churches in times paſt / and is in the churches reformed in oure dayes without making any new order or office of the miniſtery. Where he ſayth / that by thys reaſon we ſhould hauehave no churches / pulpits / ſchooles / nor vniuerſities: it is firſt eaſely anſweared that S. Paule ſpeaketh not in the. 4. to the Epheſians / of all things neceſſary for the churche / but only of all neceſſary eccleſiaſticall functions / whych do both teach & gouerne in the church / and then I hauehave already ſhewed that there were both churches and pulpits.

As for ſcholes and vniuerſities / it is ſufficient commaundement of them / in that it is commaunded / that bothe the magiſtrates and paſtors ſhould be learned p. 119/ for he that commaundeth that they ſhoulde be learned / commaundeth thoſe things and thoſe meanes / wherby they may moſt conueniently come to that learning. And we hauehave alſo examples of them commended vntounto vsus in the old Teſtament. As in the boke of the Iudges / when Debora commendeth the vniuerſity Iudges. 5. 14.Judg 5:14men / and thoſe whych handled the pen of the wryter / that they came out to helpe in the battell againſt the enemies of God. And in the boke of Samuel / and of the 1. Sam. 19. 19 2. reg. 2. 3. 5. 7.1 Sam 19:19Kings / where Nayothe and Bethel / Ierycho / and a place beyond Iordan / are ſpecified places / whych were ſcholes or vniuerſities / where the ſchollers of the Prophets / were brought vp in the feare of God / and good learning. The continuaunce of whych ſcholes and vniuerſities amongſte the people of God / maye be eaſely gathered of that whych S. Luke wryteth in the Actes / where it may appeare Actes. 6. 9.Acts 6:9that in Ieruſalem there were certen Colledges appoynted for ſeuerall countrey men / ſo that there was one Colledge to receiue the Iewes and Proſelites whych came out of Cilicia / an other for thoſe y^t came out of Alexandria. &c. to ſtudy at Ieruſalem. And if any man be able to ſhew ſuch euidence for archbyſhops and archdeacons / as theſe are for vniuerſities and ſcholes / I wil not deny but it is as lawfull to hauehave them / as theſe.

Furthermore / he ſayeth that the church is not gouerned by names / but by offices: ſo is it in deede. And if the office of an archbyſhop or archdeacon can be ſhewed / we will not ſtriue for the name / but for ſo much as all the nedefull offices of the church togither wyth their names / are mentioned in the ſcripture / it is truly ſayde / that bothe the offices and names of archbyſhop and archdeacon / (being not only not contained in them / but alſo condēned) ought to be baniſhed out of the churche.

Laſt of all / he ſayth / that Anacletus (if there be any waight in his words) nameth an archb. I hauehave before ſhewed what waighte there is in his woordes / and I refuſe not that he be weyghed wyth the byſhops owne weightes / whych he geueth vsus in the handling of the article of the ſupremacye / and in the. 223. and 224. pages / by the whych waightes appeareth / that thys Anacletus is not only lyght / but a plaine counterfait.

The ſecond reaſon whych ſayeth that the churche of God vnderunder the lawe / had all thyngs needefull appoynted by the commaundement of God / the byſhop ſayeth he knoweth not what could be concluded of it. I hauehave ſhewed before that there is nothyng les ment / then that the church vnderunder the goſpell / ſhould hauehave all thoſe thyngs that that church had / or ſhoulde hauehave nothing / whych that had not: but thys therevpon is concluded / that the Lord whych was ſo carefull for that / as not to omit the leaſt / would not be ſo careles for this church vnderunder the goſpel / as to omit the greateſt.

And where he ſayeth / that there was then whych was called highe prieſt / and was ouer all the reſt: he did well know that the cauſe therof was / becauſe he was a figure of Chriſte / and dyd repreſent vntounto the people / the cheefetye and ſuperioritye of oure ſauioure Chriſte whych was to come / and that oure ſauioure Chriſte being come / there is nowe no cauſe why there ſhould be any ſuch preheminence geuen vntounto one: and further / that it is vnlawfull that there ſhoulde be any ſuche / vnles it be lawfull to hauehave one head▪ byſhop ouer all the church. For it is knowne / that that prieſte was the heade prieſt ouer all the whole Churche / whych was during hys time vntounto our ſauioure Chriſte. And as for thoſe titles / cheefe of the ſinagogue / cheefe of the ſanctuary / cheefe of the houſe of God / I ſay that that maketh muche agaynſt archbyſhoppes and archdeacons / for when as in ſteade of the ſinagogue / and of the ſanctuarie / and of the houſe of God or Temple / are come particulare churches and congregations / by this reaſon it foloweth / that there ſhoulde be ſome cheefe / not in eueryevery prouince or dioceſe / but in eueryevery congregation: and in dede ſo ought there to be certen cheefe in eueryevery cōgregation / p. 120whych ſhould gouerne and rule the reſt. And as for the cheefe of the families of the Leuites / and cheefe of the families of the prieſtes / the ſame was obſerued in all other tribes of Iſraell as a ciuile thyng. And by all theſe princes ouer eueryevery tribe and family / as by the Prince of the whole land / God did / as it were by diuers liuely pictures unprint in their vnderſtanding / the cheefety and domination of our ſauior Chriſt. Moreouer theſe orders and pollicies touching the diſtribution of the offices of the Leuites and prieſts / and touching the appoyntment of their gouernors / were done of Dauid by the aduiſe of the prophets / Gad & Nathan / whych receiued of the Lord by commaundement / that whych they deluiered 2. Chro. 29. 252 Chr 29:25to Dauid. And if ſo be that it can be ſhewed / that archbyſhops and archdeacons / came into the church by any commaundement of the Lord / then thys allegation hath ſome force / but now being not only not commaunded / but alſo (as I hauehave ſhewed) forbiddē / eueryevery man doth ſee that this reaſon hath no place / but ſerueth to the vtter ouerthrow of the archbyſhop and archdeacon. For if Dauid being ſuch a notable perſonage / and as it were an angell of God / durſt not take vponupon him to bring into the church any orders or pollicies / not only not againſt the word of God / but not without a preciſe word and commaundement of God / who ſhall dare to be ſo bold / as to take vponupon him the inſtitution of the cheefe office of the church / and to alter the pollicy that God hath eſtabliſhed by hys ſeruauntes the apoſtles?

And where the byſhop ſayth / it is knowne and confeſſed / that there wanted many things to y^e perfection of the church of the Iewes: truely I do not know / nor can not confes / that that church wanted any thing to the perfection of that eſtate / whych the Lord would hauehave them be in / vntill the comming of our ſauior Chriſt: and if there were any thing wanting / it was not for want of good lawes and pollicies / (wherof the queſtion is / ) but for want of due execution of them / whych we ſpeake not of.

For the two laſt reaſons againſt the archbyſhop and archdeacon / although I be well acquainted wyth diuers / that fauor this cauſe / yet I did neuer heare them before in my life: and I beleeue they cannot be proued to be hys reaſons / whoſe they are ſuppoſed to be / and whych did ſet downe that propoſition / that the byſhop confuteth. Notwithſtanding / the former of theſe two ſeemeth to hauehave a good probability / and to be grounded of that place of Logicke / that ſheweth / that according as the ſubiect or ſubſtance of any thing is excellent / ſo are thoſe things that are annexed and adioyned vntounto it. But becauſe I wold the ſimpleſt ſhould vnderſtand what is ſayd or written / I will willingly abſtaine from ſuch reaſons / the termes wherof are not eaſely perceiued / but of thoſe whych be learned.

And as for the anſwer whych the byſhop maketh / that in place of apoſtles / prophets / the gifts of tongues / of healing / and of gouernment / are brought in vniuerſities / ſcholes / byſhops / and archbyſhops: for ſcholes and vniuerſities / I hauehave ſhewed / they hauehave bene alwayes / and therfore can not come in / to ſupply the roume of the apoſtles and prophets. And whether a man conſider the ſchollers that learne / or the ſcholemaiſters whych teach / or the orders appoynted for the gouernment of the ſcholes / they ſhall be found to be rather ciuill then eccleſiaſticall: and therfore can not come in ſtead of any eccleſiaſticall miniſtery. If the byſhop do meane that they come in place of the gift of tongues / and knowledge of the goſpell that was firſt geuen miraculouſly / I graunt it / and then it maketh nothing to this queſtion.

As for byſhops / they can not come in place of apoſtles or prophets / for as much as they were when the Apoſtles / Euangeliſts / and Prophets were: and are one of thoſe miniſteries / whych S. Paul mentioneth in the. 4. to the Epheſians / being the ſame that is the paſtor.

There remaineth therfore the archbyſhop / whych if he came in place of the p. 121Prophets and apoſtles (as the byſhop ſayeth) howe commeth it to pas / that the byſhop ſayeth by and by oute of the authoritye of Eraſmus / that Titus was an archbyſhop: for at that time / there was bothe apoſtles / prophets / and Euangeliſts. If it be ſo therfore / that the archbyſhop muſt ſupply the want of apoſtles. &c. howe commeth it to pas / he wayteth not hys time whileſt they were deade / but commeth in / like vntounto one whych is borne oute of time / and like the vntimely and haſty frute / whych is ſeldome or neuer wholeſome. And for one to come into the apoſtles or prophets place / requireth the authority of him whych ordained the apoſtles. &c. whych is the Lord / and hys inſtitution in hys word / whych is that whych we deſire to be ſhewed. But heereof I hauehave ſpoken before at large. The neceſſity of Deanes I do not acknowledge / and I hauehave already ſpoken of them. Touching Prebendaries / I ſhall hauehave occaſion to ſpeake a worde heereafter. For Earles and Dukes / and ſuch like titles of honor / they are ciuil / neither doth it folowe / that becauſe there may newe titles or newe offices be brought into the ciuile gouernement / that therefore the ſame may be attempted in the church. For God hath left a greater liberty in inſtituting thyngs in the common wealth / then in the churche.

For / for ſo much as there be diuers common wealthes / and diuers formes of common wealthes / and all good / it falleth oute / that the offices and dignityes whych are good in one common wealth / are not good in an other / as thoſe which are good in a Monarchie / are not good in Ariſtocratie / and thoſe which are good in Ariſtocratie / are not good in a populare ſtate. But that can not be ſayde of the churche / whych is but one and vniforme / and hathe the ſame lawes and forme of gouernment throughout the worlde.

In common wealths alſo there are conuerſions / one forme being changed into an other / whych can not be in the true church of God. As for Eraſmus authoritye whych ſayeth that Titus was an archbyſhop / I hauehave anſweared to it. And whereas Chryſoſtome ſayeth / that the iudgement of many byſhops was committed to Titus / I hauehave declared in what ſorte that is to be vnderſtanded / and yet vponupon thoſe words / the byſhop can hardly conclude / that whych he doth: that Titus had the gouernment of many byſhops. For it is one thing to ſay / the iudgement of many was committed vntounto Titus / and an other thyng to ſay / that he had the gouernement of many.

The anſwer of the byſhop vntounto the fourth ſuppoſed reaſon / pertaineth vntounto an other queſtion / that is whether eccleſiaſticall perſons / ought to exerciſe ciuil iuriſdiction / whervnto I will anſwer by Gods grace / when I come to ſpeake vponupon occaſion of M. Doctors boke of that queſtion. In the meane ſeaſon I wil deſire the reader to conſider / what weake grounds the archbyſhop and archdeacon ſtand vponupon / ſeeing that the byſhop of Sarum / being ſo learned a man / and of ſo great reading / coulde ſay no more in their defence / whych notwythſtanding in the controuerſies agaynſt D. Harding / is ſo pithy and ſo plentifull.

Now I hauehave ſhewed how little thoſe things whych M. doctor bringeth / make for proufe of that wherfore he alledgeth them: I will for the better vnderſtanding of the reader / ſet downe what were y^e cauſes why the archbiſhops were firſt ordained / and what were their prerogatiues / and preheminēces before other byſhops / and the eſtate alſo of the old byſhops / whych liued in thoſe times / wherin althoughe there were great corruptions / yet the church was in ſome tollerable eſtate / to the entent it may appeare / partly how little nede we hauehave of them now / and partly alſo howe greate difference there is betweene oures and them. Of the names of Metropolitane / it hath bene ſpoken / howe that he ſhoulde not be called the cheefe of prieſts / or the high prieſt / or byſhop of byſhops: nowe I will ſette downe hys office and power whych he had / more then the byſhops.

In the councell of Antioche it appeareth / that the byſhop of the metropolitane p. 122Chap. 9.ſeate / called Synodes / & propounded the matters whych were to be handled. &c. the archbyſhop doth not nowe call Synodes / but the Prince dothe / for as much as there is no conuocation wythout a parliament / & he doth not propound the matters / and gather the voyces / but an other choſen / whych is called prolocutor / therfore in y^e reſpect that an archb. & metropolitane was firſt ordained / we hauehave no neede of an archb. or metropolitane. Againe / an other cauſe alſo appeareth there / whych was to ſee that the byſhoppes kepte them ſelues wythin their owne dioceſes / and brake not into an others dioceſe. But firſt this may be done wythout an archbyſhop / and then it is not done of the archb. (hym ſelfe geuing licences vntounto the wandring miniſters to go throughout not ſo few as a doſen dioceſes) therefore the office of an archb. is not neceſſarye in thys reſpecte / and if it were / yet it muſt be other then it is nowe.

Againe / the cauſe whye the metropolitane differed from the reſt / and whye Chap. 9.the calling of the Synode was geuen to hym / as it appeareth in the ſame coūcel / was for that the greateſt concourſe was to that place / and moſt aſſembly of men / whervnto alſo may be added / for that there was the beſt commodity of lodging & of vitailing / and for that / as it appeareth in other councels / it was the place and ſeate of the Empire. But wyth vsus neyther the greateſt concourſe nor aſſemblye of men / nor the greateſt commodity of lodging and vitailing / neyther yet the ſeate of the kingdome is in the metropolitane city / therefore wyth vsus there is no ſuche cauſe of a metropolitane or archbyſhop.

In the councel of Carthage / holden in Cyprians time / it appeareth that no byſhop had authority ouer an other / to compell an other / or to condemne an other / but eueryevery byſhop was left at hys owne liberty to anſwer vntounto God / and to make hys accompt vntounto Chriſt: and if any thing were done againſt any biſhop / it was done by the conſent of all the byſhops in the prouince / or as many as coulde conueniently aſſemble. Therefore Cyprian / whych was the metropolitane byſhop / had then no authoritye ouer the reſt / and yet then (there being no chriſtian magiſtrate / whych woulde puniſhe the diſorders whych were committed of the chriſtian byſhops) there was greateſt neede / that there ſhoulde hauehave bene ſome one / whych might hauehave had the correction of the reſt. If therefore when there was moſte neede of thys abſolute authoritie / there neyther was / nor myght be anye ſuche / it followeth that nowe we hauehave a Chriſtian magiſtrate / whych maye and oughte to puniſhe the diſorders of all Eccleſiaſticall perſons / and may and ought to call them to accoumpt for their faultes / that there ſhoulde be no ſuche neede of an archbyſhop.

The moderation of their authority in the auncient times may appeare / firſt by a Canon whych is falſly geuen to the apoſtles / being as it is like a Canon of the councell of Antioche / wherin although it ordaineth one primate in eueryevery nation 34. canon.ouer the reſt / and will not ſuffer any great matter to be done wythout him / as alſo will not ſuffer him to do any thing wythout the reſt / yet eueryevery B. might do that / whych appertained vntounto hys own pariſh / wythout hym / and he nothing to do wyth hym in it. But as it ſeemeth / the meaning of the Canon was / that if there were any waighty matter to be concluded for all the churches in the natiō / then the byſhops of eueryevery pariſh ſhould not enterpriſe any thing without calling hym to counſell. Now we ſee that the archb. medleth with that whych eueryevery byſhop doth in hys owne dioceſe / and hath hys viſitations for that purpoſe / & will take any matter out of their hands / concludeth alſo of diuers matters / neuer making the byſhops once priuy to hys doings.

Higinus / or as ſome thincke Pelagius (I ſpeake heere as Platina reporteth Platina cap. Higin.not thincking that in Higinus time / there was any Metropolitane) ordained that no Metropolitane ſhould condemne any byſhop / onles the matter were firſt bothe harde and diſcuſſed by the byſhoppes of that prouince / at what time / p. 123and after a great while / a biſhop was the ſame we cal a miniſter. Now the archbyſhop will wythout any further aſſiſtance or diſcuſſion by others ſuſpend hym / and in the ende alſo throwe him oute of hys charge / and if he hauehave the ſame authority ouer a byſhop / as a byſhop ouer the miniſter (as it is ſayd) he may do the like vntounto hym alſo.

The councell of Antioche ordained / that if the voyces of the byſhops were Canon. 17.euen / and that if halfe did condemne hym / and halfe cleare hym / that then the metropolitane byſhop ſhoulde call of the nexte prouince ſome other byſhops / whych ſhould make an end of the controuerſy. Wherby appeareth that the Metropolitane had ſo ſmall authority and power ouer and aboue the reſt / that he had not ſo much as the caſting voyce / when bothe ſides were euen / and therefore it appeareth / that beſides the names of metropolitane / there was little or no reſemblance betweene thoſe that were then / and thoſe whych be now.

Now / to conſider how the byſhops whych are now / differ from the byſhops whych were in times paſt / I muſt call to thy remembrance (gentle reader) that whych I hauehave ſpoken before / which was that then there was / as appeareth out of Cyprian and Ierome / and others / one byſhop in eueryevery pariſhe or congregation: nowe one is ouer a thouſande / then eueryevery byſhop had a ſeuerall church where he preached and miniſtred the ſacraments: nowe he hath none / then he ruled that one churche (as I ſhewed oute of Ierome) in common wyth the Elders of the ſame: nowe he ruleth a thouſande by hym ſelfe / ſhutting oute the miniſters / to whome the rule and gouernement belongeth / then he ordained not any miniſter of the churche / except he were firſt choſen by the presbiterie, and approued by the people of that place wherevnto he was ordained: nowe he ordaineth where there is no place voyde / and of hys priuate authority / wythout either choiſe or approbation of preſbyterie or people: then he excommunicated not / nor receiued the excōmunicated / but by ſentences of the elderſhip / and conſent of the people / as ſhall appeare afterward: nowe he dothe bothe.

And thus you ſee that contrary to the woorde of God / he hathe gotten into hys owne hande / and pulled to him ſelfe / bothe the preheminence of the other miniſters / and the liberties of the church / whych God by his word had geuen. And Hiſpal. Concil. can. 7.as for the offices wherein there is any laboure or trauaile / thoſe they hauehave turned vntounto the other miniſters / as for example in times paſt it was not lawfull for hym that was then an elder / to preache or miniſter the ſacraments in the preſence of the byſhop / becauſe the biſhop him ſelfe ſhould do it / and now thoſe which they call elders / may preach and miniſter the ſacraments by the byſhops good licence / although he be preſent.

Now if you will alſo conſider how much the Lordſhip / pompe / and ſtatelines of the byſhops in our dayes / differ from the ſimplicity of them in times paſt / I will geue you alſo a taſte thereof / if firſt of all I ſhewe the beginning / or as it were the fountaine wherevpon the pompe grewe / whych was / when in ſteade of hauing a byſhop in eueryevery pariſhe and congregation / they began to make a biſhop of a whole dioceſe / and of a thouſand congregations.

In an epiſtle of ʒacharie vntounto Pope Boniface / it is thus wrytten: it hath Concil. tom. 3. epi. zach. papae ad Bonif.bene oftentimes decreed / that there ſhoulde not be a byſhop appoynted in euerye village or little citie / leaſt they ſhould waxe vile through the multitude: whereby it bothe appeareth / that there was wonte to be a byſhop in eueryevery pariſhe / and vponupon howe corrupte and euill conſideration one byſhoppe was ſette ouer a whole dioceſe. No doubte thoſe that were authoures of thys / had learned too well our olde prouerb / the fewer the better cheare / but the more byſhops the meryer it had bene wyth Gods people. And they might wyth as good reaſon hinder the ſunne from ſhining in al places / & the raine from falling vponupon al grounds / for feare they ſhould not be ſet by / being common / as to bring in ſuch a wicked decree / wherby p. 124vnderunder pretence of deliuering the byſhop from contempt / they ſought nothing elſe but an ambitious and ſtately Lordſhyp ouer thoſe whych had not that title of biſhop that they had / althoughe they did the office of a byſhop better then they dyd. And what intollerable preſumption is thys / to chaunge the inſtitution of God / as though he whych ordained not one only / but ſome nomber more or les of byſhops in eueryevery church / did not ſufficiently foreſee / that the multitude and plentye of byſhops coulde breede no contempt of the office. And it may be as well ordained that the children of pore men ſhoulde not call them that begate them / fathers and mothers / but only the childrē of the rich / and of noble / leaſt that if eueryevery man that hathe children / ſhoulde be called a father / fathers ſhould be ſette nothyng by. And heere let vsus obſerue by what degrees and ſtaires Sathan lifted the childe of perdition vntounto that proude title of vniuerſall byſhop. Firſt / where the Lorde did ordaine that there ſhoulde be diuers paſtors / elders / or byſhops in eueryevery congregation / Sathan wrought firſt that there ſhould be but one in eueryevery churche: thys was no doubt the firſt ſtep. Afterwardes he puſhed further / and ſtirred vp diuers not to content them ſelues to be byſhops of one church / but to deſire to be byſhops of a dioceſe / whervnto although it ſeemeth that there was reſiſtance (in that it is ſayd that it was decreed often) yet in the end this wicked attempt preuailed / and thys was an other ſtep. Then were there archbiſhops of whole prouinces / whych was the third ſtayer vntounto the ſeat of antichriſte. Afterwards they were Patriarks of one of the .iiij. corners of the whole world / the whole church being aſſigned to the iuriſdiction of fower / that is to ſaye of the Romaine / Conſtantinopolitane / Antiochene / and Alexandrine byſhops. And theſe fower ſtayers being layd of Sathan / there was but an eaſy ſtride for the B. of Rome / into that chaire of peſtilence / wherin he nowe ſitteth. Hauing now ſhowed howe thys Lordly eſtate of the byſhop began / and vponupon what a rotten ground it is builded / I come to ſhew how farre the byſhops in our time are / for their pompe and outward ſtatelines / degenerated from the byſhops of elder times.

And heere I call to remembraunce / that whych was ſpoken of the poore eſtate of Baſile and Theodorete: and if M. Doctor will ſay (as he doth in deede in a certaine place) that thē was a time of perſecution / and this is a time of peace: it is eaſely anſweared / that although Baſill were vnderunder perſecution / yet Theodorete liued vnderunder good emperors. But that ſhall appeare better by the Canons / whych were rules geuen for the byſhops to frame them ſelues by.

In the. 4. councell of Carthage it is decreed / that the byſhops ſhould hauehave 14. canon. It calleth it hoſpitiolum. 15. canon.a little houſe neare vntounto the church: what is thys compared wyth ſo many faire large houſes / and wyth the princely palace of a byſhop? And in the ſame councel it is decreed that he ſhoulde hauehave the furniture and ſtuffe of hys houſe after the commen ſorte / and that hys table and diet ſhould be pore / and that he ſhould get him eſtimation by faithfulnes and good conuerſation.

And in an other councell / that the byſhops ſhoulde not giuegive them ſelues to 5. canon. Concil. Tyronenſis.feaſtes / but be content wyth a little meate. Let theſe byſhops be compared wyth oures / whoſe chambers ſhine wyth gilt / whoſe walles are hanged wyth clothes of Auris / whoſe cupbordes are loden wyth plate / whoſe tables and diets are furniſhed wyth multitude and diuerſity of diſhes / whoſe daily dinners are feaſtes: Let them I ſay be compared together / and they ſhall be founde ſo vnlike / that if thoſe olde byſhops were aliue / they wold not know each other. For they would thinke that oures were princes / and oures woulde thinke that they were ſome hedge prieſts / not worthy of their acquaintance or fellowſhyp.

In the ſame councell of Carthage / it was decreed / that no byſhop ſitting 34. canon.in any place / ſhould ſuffer any miniſter or elder to ſtand. Nowe I will report me to themſelues how thys is kept / and to the pore miniſters whych hauehave to do with them / and come before them.

p. 125The byſhops in times paſt had no tayle nor trayne of men after them / and thought it a ſlaunder to the goſpell to hauehave a number of men before and behynde them. And therefore is Paulus Sam of atenus noted as one that brought relygion Euſeb. lib. 7. c. 30.into hatred / and as one that ſeemed to take delight rather to be a captaine of two hundreth / then a byſhoppe / becauſe he had gotten him a ſort of ſeruing men to waight on hym. An other example not vnlyke and likewyſe reprehended is in Ruffine of one Gregory a byſhop. Now in our dayes it is thought a commendation Ruf. 1. lib. cap. 23.to the byſhop / a credite to the goſpell / if a byſhop hauehave 30. 40. 60. or moe wayting of hym / ſome before ſome behynde / whereof three partes of them (ſet apart the carying of a diſhe vntounto the table) hauehave no honeſt or profitable calling to occupy themſelues in two houres of the day / to y^e filling of the church and commō wealth alſo with all kynde of diſorders and greater incommodities / then I minde to ſpeake of / becauſe it is not my purpoſe.

And heere I will note an other cauſe / which brought in this pompe and princely eſtate of byſhoppes / wherin although I will ſay more in a worde for the pompeous eſtate / then M. Doctor hath done in all hys treatiſe / yet I will ſhew that although it were more tollerable at the firſt / now it is by no meanes to be borne with. * In the eccleſiaſticall ſtory we read that the inſcriptions of dyuers Theo. li. 5. c. 8.epyſtles ſent vntounto byſhops were timiotatois kyriois. We read alſo of aſpaſticon oicon houſe of ſalutations / which Ambroſe byſhop of Millain had. As for the title Li. eodem. cap. 18.of (moſt honorable Lordes) it was not ſo great nor ſo ſtately as the name of a Lord or knight in our country / for all thoſe that know the maner of the ſpeach of the Grecians do well vnderſtand / how they vſed to call eueryevery one of any meane countenaunce in the common wealth where he lyued kyrion / that is Lorde / ſo we ſee alſo the Euangeliſtes vſe the worde Kyrios to note a meane perſon as when Mary in the. 20. of Iohn / thinking that our ſauiour Chriſt had bene the keper of the garden calleth hym (Kyrion). So likewiſe in Fraunce they call eueryevery one that is gentilman / or hath any honeſt place Monſeur, and ſo they will ſay alſo fainng your honour. Now we know thys word (Lord) in our countrey is vſed otherwiſe / to note ſome great perſonage / eyther by reaſon of birth or by reaſon of ſome high dignitie in the common wealth / which he occupyeth: and therfore thoſe titles although they were ſomewhat exceſſiue / yet were they nothing ſo ſwelling and ſtately as oures are.

And as touching Ambroſe houſe / albeit the word doth not employ ſo great gorgeouſnes nor magnificence of an houſe as the palaces and other magnificall buildinges of our byſhoppes: yet the cauſe whereupon thys roſe / doth more excuſe Ambroſe / who being taken from great wealth and gouernment in the common wealth / geuing ouer hys office / dyd retayne hys houſe and that which hee had gotten.

But our byſhops doe maynteyne thys pompe and exceſſe / of the charges of the church / with whoſe goodes a great number of idle loytering ſeruing men are mayntayned / which ought to be beſtowed vponupon the miniſters / which want neceſſary finding for their families / and vponupon the poore / and mayntenance of the vniuerſities. As for theſe riotous expences of the church goodes / when many other myniſters want / and of making great dynners and entertayning great Lordes and maieſtrates / and of the anſwere to them that ſay they do helpe the church by thys meanes / I will referre the reader to that which Ierome wryteth in a certayne Ad nepotian… monachum.place where thys is handled more at large. By thys which I hauehave cyted it appeareth / what was one cauſe of thys exceſſe and ſtately pompe of the byſhops / namely that certeine noble and rich men / being choſen to the miniſterie and lyuing ſomewhat like vntounto the former eſtates wherein they were before / others alſo aſſayed to be like vntounto them: as we ſee in that poynt the nature of man is too ready to follow / if they ſee any example before theyr eyes. But there is no p. 126reaſon becauſe Ambroſe and ſuch lyke dyd ſo / therefore our byſhops ſhoulde do it of the churches coſtes. Nor becauſe Ambroſe and ſuch like dyd tary in their trim houſes which they had built them ſelues of theyr owne charge before they were byſhops / that therefore they ſhuld come out of theyr chambers or narow houſes / into courtes and palaces builded of the churches coſtes.

An other reaſon of thys pompe and ſtatelynes of the byſhoppes was / that which almoſt brought in all poyſon and popiſhe corruption into the church / and that is a fooliſh emulation of the maners and faſhions of the Idolatrous nations. For as thys was the craft of ſathan to draw away the Iſraelites from the true ſeruice of God / by theyr fond deſire they had to conforme them ſelues to the faſhyons of the gentiles: ſo to puniſh vnthankefull receiuing of the goſpell / and to fulfill the Propheſies touching the man of ſinne / the Lord ſuffered thoſe that profeſſed Chriſt to corrupt theyr wayes by the ſame ſleyght of the Deuill.

Galerianus Maximinus the Emperor to the end that he myght promote the Euſeb. 8. cap. 15Idolatry and ſuperſtition whereunto he was addicted / choſe of the choyſeſt magiſtrates to be prieſtes / and that they myght be in great eſtimation gaue eche of them a trayne of men to follow them. And the chriſtians and chriſtian Emperours / thinking that that would promote the chriſtian relygion that promoted ſuperſtition / and not remembring that it is often times abhomynable before God / which is eſteemed in the eyes of men / endeuoured to make theyr byſhops encounter and match with thoſe Idolatrous prieſtes / and to cauſe that they ſhould not Luke. 16. 15.Luke 16:15be inferior to them in wealth and outward pompe. And therfore I conclude that ſeing the cauſes and fountaynes from whence thys pompe and ſtatelynes of byſhops hauehave come / are ſo corrupt and naught / the thing it ſelfe which hath ryſen of ſuch cauſes can not be good.

And thus will I make an end / leauing to the conſideration and indifferent waying of the indifferent reader / how true it is that I hauehave before propounded / that our Archbyſhops / Metropolitanes / Archdeacons / Byſhops / hauehave beſides the names almoſt nothing common with thoſe which hauehave bene in elder tymes / before the ſunne of the goſpell began to be maruellouſly darkned / by the ſtincking miſtes which the deuill ſent forth out of the bottomles pit to blynde the eyes of men / that they ſhoulde not ſee the ſhame and nakednes of that purpled whore / which in the perſon of the cleargy / long before ſhe gat into her ſeate prepared her ſelfe by paynting her wrythen face / with the couloures of theſe gorgeous titles and with the ſhew of magnifycall and worldly pompe. For the deuill knew well enough / that if he ſhould hauehave ſette vp one only byſhoppe in that ſeate of perdition / and left all the reſt in that ſimplicitie wherein God had appoynted them / that hys eldeſt ſonne ſhoulde neyther hauehave had any way to gette into that / and when he had gotten it / yet being as it were an owle amongſt a ſort of birdes / ſhoulde hauehave bene quickly diſcouered.

But I hauehave done / only thys I admoniſhe the reader that I doe not allow of all thoſe thinges which I before alleaged in the compariſon betwene our Archbyſhoppes and the Archbyſhops of olde tyme / or our byſhoppes and theirs. Only my entent is to ſhew that although there were corruptions / yet in reſpect of ours they be much more tollerable: and that it might appeare how ſmale cauſe there is that they ſhould alleage theyr examples to confirme the Archbyſhops and Byſhops that now are.

Concerning the offices of commiſſionerſhip and how vnmeete it is that mimiſters of the worde ſhould exerciſe them / and how that the worde of God doth not permitte any ſuch confuſion of offices / there ſhalbe by Gods grace ſpoken of it afterwarde.

To your anſwere alſo vntounto the places of S. Mathew and Luke / the reply is made before. The place of the fourthe of the firſt to the Corinthyans / is well p. 127alledged / for it teacheth a moderate eſtymation of the myniſters / and a meane betwene the contempt and exceſſiue eſtymation / neyther can there be any redyer way to breede that diſorder which was amongſt the Corinthyans / as to ſay I holde of ſuch a one / and I of ſuch a one / and I of ſuch an other / then to ſette vp certayne myniſters in ſo hyghe Titles and great ſhew of worldly honoure. For ſo commeth it to paſſe / that the people will ſaye / I beleeue my Lord / and my Lord archbyſhoppe / whatſoeuer oure parſon ſay / for they bee wyſe men and learned / as wee ſee it came to paſſe amongſt the Corrinthyans. For the Apoſtles becauſe they hadde a ſhewe and outwarde pompe of ſpeache / they caryed away the people. For althoughe Saynt Paule ſayeth that ſome ſayde / I holde of 1. Cor. 4. 6.1 Cor 4:6Paule / I holde of Apollo / I of Cephas / yet as it appeareth in an other place / they helde one of thys braue eloquent teacher / an other of that. For hee tranſlated theſe ſpeaches vntounto hym and hys fellowes by a fygure. All that rule is tyrannycall / whiche is not lawfull / and is more then it oughte to bee / and therfore the place of Saynt Peter is fitly alleaged / whereof alſo I hauehave ſpoken ſome thing before.

You are you ſay of Hemingius mynde / and thincke that thys opynion ſmelleth of Anabaptiſme / I hauehave ſhewed how you hauehave depraued and corrupted Hemingius / and deſire you to ſhew ſome better reaſon of your opynion / autos ephe, will not ſuffice vsus. You ſay / that if we had once obtayned equalitie amongſt the cleargie / we would attempt it in the laitie.

In what ſtarre doe you ſee that Maiſter Doctor? Moyſes ſayth / that if a Deut. 18. 22.Deut 18:22man ſpeake of a thing to come / and it come not to paſſe as he hath ſpoken / that that man is a falſe Prophet / if your propheſie come not to paſſe / you know your iudgement already out of Moyſes.

The Phariſies when our ſauiour Chriſt inueighed agaynſt their ambytion / accuſed hym that he was no freende to Ceſar / and went about to diſcredite Luk. 23. 2.Luke 23:2hym with the cyuill Magiſtrate / you ſhall apply it your ſelfe / you will needes make the Archbyſhoppe. &c. neyghboures vntounto the cyuill Magiſtrates / and yet they almoſt dwell as farre a ſonder as Rome and Ieruſalem / and as Syon and S. Peters Church there / ſo that the houſe of the archbyſhoppe may bee burnt ſticke and ſtone / when not ſo much as the ſmoke ſhall approche the houſe of the cyuill magiſtrate.

In the. 116. page / for the authoritie of the archbyſhoppe / is alleaged the nynthe Canon of the Councell of Antioch / which I hauehave before alleaged / to proue how farre different the authoritie of the Metropolitane in thoſe times was from that which is now. For there the Councell ſheweth that eueryevery Byſhoppe in hys Dioceſe / hath the ordering of all matters within the circuite thereof / and therfore the meaning of the Councell to bee / that if there be any affaires that touche the whole Churche many lande / that the Byſhoppes ſhoulde doe nothing without making the Metropolitane priuy / as alſo the Metropolitane myght doe nothing without making the other Byſhops a counſell of that which he attempted / which maiſter Doctor doth cleane leaue out.

And if thys authoritie which the councell geueth to the Metropolitane / being nothing ſo exceſſiue as y^e authorytie of our Metropolitanes now / had not bene ouer much / or had bene iuſtifiable / what needed men father thys Canon (which was ordayned in thys councell) of the Apoſtles / for the ſeeking falſly of the name of the Apoſtles / to geue creadite vntounto thys Canon / doth cary with it a note of euill and of ſhame / which they woulde hauehave couered as it were with the garment of the Apoſtles authoritie.

And in the hundreth twentie and three page / to that which Maiſter Bucer ſayeth / that in the Churches there hath bene one which hath beene cheefe ouer the reſt of the myniſters / if he meane one cheefe in eueryevery particulare churche / or p. 128one cheefe ouer the myniſters of dyuers churches meeting at one Synode / and cheefe for the time / and for ſuch reſpectes as I hauehave before ſhewed / then I am of that mynde which he is: And if he meane any other cheefe / or after any other ſort / I deny that any ſuch cheefety was from the Apoſtles tymes / or that any ſuche cheefetie pleaſeth the holye ghoſte / whereof I hauehave before ſhewed the proufes.

And wheras M. Bucer ſeemeth to allow / that the name of a byſhop / which the holy ghoſt expreſly geueth to all the miniſters of the word indifferently / was appropriated to certen cheefe gouernoures of the church / I hauehave before ſhewed by dyuers reaſons / how that was not done without great preſumption and manifeſt daunger / and in the end great hurt to the church.

And if M. Doctor delyght thus to oppoſe mens authoritie to the authoritie of the holy ghoſt / and to the reaſons which are grounded out of the ſcripture / M. Caluin doth openly miſſelyke of the making of that name proper and peculiar to certayne / which the holy ghoſt maketh common to moe. And whereas of M. Caluines wordes / which ſayth that there be degrees of honor in the myniſtery / M. Doctor would gather an archbyſhop / if he had vnderſtanded that an Apoſtle is aboue an Euangeliſt / an Euangeliſt aboue a paſtor / a paſtor aboue a doctor / and he aboue an elder that ruleth only / he needed neuer to hauehave gone to the popiſh Hierarchie / to ſeeke hys dyuerſities of degrees / which he myght hauehave founde in S. Paule. And whereas vponupon M. Caluines words / which ſayeth that Paule was one of the cheefe amongſt the Apoſtles / he would ſeeme to conclude an archbyſhop amongſt the byſhops / he ſhould hauehave remembred / that S. Paules cheeftie amongſt the Apoſtles / conſiſted not in hauing any authoritie or domynion ouer the reſt / but in labouring and ſuffering more then the reſt / and in giftes more excellent then the reſt.

Now where as hee ſayeth / that we deſire to pull the rule from others / that the rule myght be in oure handes / and we myght doe what we liſt / and that we ſeeke to wythdraw oure ſelues from controlement of Prince / and Byſhoppe / and all. Firſte / hee may learne if hee will / that wee deſire no other authoritie then that / which is to the edifying of the church / and which is grounded of the word of God: which if any myniſter ſhall abuſe to hys gayne or ambytion / then he ought to abyde not only the controlement of the other myniſters / yea of the brethren / but alſo further the puniſhment of the Magiſtrates according to the quantitie of the faulte.

And ſeeing you charge the brethren ſo ſore / you muſt be put in remembrance / that thys vnreaſonable authoritie ouer the reſt of the myniſters and clergy / came to the byſhops and archbyſhops / when as the Pope dyd exempt hys ſhauelinges from the obedience / ſubiection / and iuriſdiction of the Princes: now therfore that we be ready to geue that ſubiection vntounto the Prince / and offer our ſelues to the Princes correction in things wherein we ſhall doe a miſſe / doe you thincke it an vnreaſonable thing / that we deſire to bee diſburdened of the byſhops and archbyſhops yoke / which the Pope hath layde vponupon our neckes?

And in the. 207. page vntounto the middeſt of the 214. page / thys matter is agayne handled / where firſt M. Doctor would draw the place of Galathians the ſecond / to proue an archbyſhop / and that by a falſe tranſlation / for hoi dokountes / which is (they that ſeemed or appeared) he hath tranſlated (they y^e are the cheefe) & although the place of the Galathians may be thought of ſome not ſo pregnant / nor ſo full agaynſt the archbyſhop / yet all muſt needes confeſſe / that it maketh more againſt him then for him. For S. Paules purpoſe is to proue there / that he was not inferioure to any of the Apoſtles / & bringeth one argument thereof / that he had not his goſpel from them / but from Chriſt immediatly / & therfore if the apoſtles that were eſtemed moſt of / and ſuppoſed by the Galathians & others to be p. 129the cheefe / had no ſuperioritie ouer S. Paule / but were equall wyth hym / it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the reſt. And if there needed no one of the Apoſtles to be ruler ouer the reſt / there ſeemeth to be no neede / that one byſhoppe ſhould rule ouer the reſt. But that I run not backe to that I hauehave handled before / I will not heere ſo much vrge the place / as I will not doe alſo that of the Hebrues which followeth / and yet the argument is ſtronger / then that M. Doctor coulde anſwere. For if the wryter to the Hebrues / doe proue our ſauiour Chriſtes vocation to be iuſt and lawfull / becauſe hys calling was contayned in the ſcriptures / as appeareth in the 5. and 6. verſe / then it followeth that the calling of the archbiſhop which is not comprehended there / is neither iuſt nor lawfull. For that no man (ſayth the apoſtle) taketh that honour vntounto hym ſelfe / but he that is called of God. &c. But I ſay / hauing before ſufficiently ſpoken of the reaſons which ouerthrow the archbyſhoppe / I will let paſſe theſe and other places / anſwearing only that which M. Doctor bringeth for the eſtabliſhment of them. He ſayth therefore afterwarde / that although one man be not able to be byſhop ouer all the church / yet he may be byſhop ouer a whole dioceſe / or of a prouince. Now if I wold ſay the one is as impoſſible as the other / & for proofe thereof alleage that which the Philoſophers ſay / that as there are no degrees in that which is infinite / ſo that of thinges which are infinite / one thing can not be more infinite then an other / ſo there are no degrees in impoſſibilitie / that of thinges which are impoſſible / one thyng ſhoulde bee more impoſſible then an other: If I ſhoulde thus reaſon / I thincke I ſhoulde putte you to ſome payne. But I will not draw the reader to ſuche thorney and ſubtile queſtyons / it is enough for vsus / that the one and the other be impoſſible / although one ſhoulde bee more impoſſible then the other. And that it is impoſſible for one man to bee byſhoppe ouer a whole prouince / or ouer a whole dyoceſe / I leaue it to bee conſidered of that which is before ſayde in the diſcription of the office of a byſhoppe / paſtor / or miniſter / where I ſpeake of the neceſſitie of the reſidence of the byſhop in hys church.

As a Prince may rule a whole realme / ſuch as Fraunce / or Englande / ſo may he rule the whole world by officers and magiſtrates appoynted vnderneath hym: And there hauehave bene dyuers Princes / which hauehave had as many landes vnderunder their power / as the Pope hath had churches / and although it be ſomewhat incōuenient / yet I know not why they might not ſo hauehave / comming lawfully by them. Now I woulde gladly heare whether you woulde ſay the ſame of a byſhoppe / and if you dare not / then why doe you bring the ſimilitude of the gouernment of a Prince ouer a lande / to proue that an archbyſhop may be ouer a whole prouince. M. Doctor dare boldly ſay / that there may be one byſhop ouer a whole prouince / but he dare not ſay that there may be a byſhop ouer the whole Church. But what better warrant for the one / then for the other? Agayne / if the whole church be in one prouince or in one realme / which hath bene / and is not impoſſible to be agayne / if there may be now one byſhop ouer a realme or prouince / then there may be one byſhop ouer all the church / ſo that in trauayling with an archbyſhop / he hath brought forth a Pope.

But he ſayth that an archbyſhop hath not the charge of gouernment ouer the whole prouince generally / but in caſes exempted / & ſo may doe it more eaſely: But he ſhould hauehave remembred / that he aſſigned before the offices of archbyſhop & byſhop / to be in all thoſe things / which other miniſters are / & that beſides thoſe offices / he geueth them particulare charges. So that where the office of the miniſter is but to preach / pray / & miniſter the ſacraments in hys pariſh / the office of archbyſhop & biſhop / is to do the ſame / and more in the whole prounice or dioceſe. And ſo it followeth that it is eaſyer for a miniſter to diſcharge his duetie in hys pariſh / then for an archbyſhop or byſhop to diſcharge their dueties in any one pariſhe p. 130of their prouince or dioceſe. For they hauehave in eueryevery pariſh more to doe / and greater charge / then the myniſter of the paryſhe hath / then much leſſe are they able to doe their dueties in all the paryſhes of theyr prouinces or dyoceſe.

After M. Doctor tranſlateth out of M. Caluin / the papiſtes reaſons for the ſupremacy of the Pope / and M. Caluines ſolutions. For what purpoſe hee knoweth / I can not tell / vnles it be to blot paper / I know not what he ſhoulde meane / and the quarell alſo which he picketh / to tranſlate thys place / is yet more ſtrange. For he ſayth that the authors of the admonition / borowed their argumentes from the papiſtes / when the contrary is true / that they vſe the reaſons which they of the goſpell vſe agaynſt the ſupremacy of the pope / to ouerthrow the archbyſhoppe. And maiſter Doctor doth vſe reaſons to defende the archbyſhop / which the papiſtes vſe to mayntayne the Pope. For M. Doctor woulde proue / that for becauſe there is one king ouer a realme / therefore there may be one byſhop ouer a prouince / and the papiſtes vſe the ſame reaſon to proue the Pope to be a byſhop of the whole church. Shew now one reaſon / that the authors of the admonition brought of the papiſtes / to proue that there ſhould be no archbyſhop. But now I perceiue hys meaning / and that is / that he thought to gette ſome comfort for the archbiſhop in M. Caluins ſolutions made vntounto the papiſtes reaſons for the ſupremacy: and therfore he hath haled and pulled in as it were by the ſhulders / thys diſputation betwene the proteſtants and the papiſtes touching the ſupremacy. And what is it that M. Caluin ſayth for the archbyſhop? It hath bene before ſhewed / what his iudgement was touching hauing one myniſter ouer all the myniſters of a prouince / and that he doth ſimply condemne it in hys commentary vponupon the firſt chap. of the Phillippians. Now let it be conſidered / whether in theſe ſentences he hath ſayd any thing againſt hym ſelfe. The papiſtes obiect that for ſo much as there was one high prieſt in Iury ouer all the church / therfore there ſhould be one byſhop ouer all. To whom M. Caluin anſweareth / that the reaſon followeth not: for ſayth he / there is no reaſon to extend that to all the world / which was profitable in one nation. Heereupon M. Doctor would conclude that M. Caluine allowath one archbyſhop ouer a whole prouince.

If one going about to proue that he may hauehave as many wiues as hee liſt / woulde alledge Iacob for an Example which had two wyues: and Maiſter Doctor ſhould anſwere and ſay / that although hee myght hauehave two wyues / yet it followeth not that he may hauehave as many as he liſt / would not Maiſter Doctor thinke that he had great iniurye / if a man ſhould conclude of theſe wordes / that hys opynion is that a man may hauehave two wyues? I thinke that he would ſuppoſe that he had great wrong / and yet thus would he conclude of Maiſter Caluines wordes in thys firſt ſentence / whereas in deede M. Caluine declareth a little after / a ſpeciall reaſon why there was but one high prieſt in the whole land of Iury / which is becauſe he was a figure of Chriſt / and that therby ſhuld be ſhadowed out hys ſole meditation betwene God & his church. And therefore ſheweth y^e forſomuch as there is none to repreſent or figure our ſauiour Chriſt / that his iudgement is / that as there ſhoulde be no one ouer all the churches / ſo ſhould there be no one ouer any nation. To the papiſtes obiecting for the ſupremacy / that S. Peter was the prince & cheefe of the apoſtles / M. Caluin anſwereth / firſt by denying that Peter was ſo / and bringeth many places to proue y^t he was equall to the other apoſtles. Afterward he ſayth / although it be graunted / that Peter was cheefe / yet followeth it not becauſe one may beare rule ouer twelue being but a few in number / that therefore one may rule ouer an hundreth thouſand / & that it followeth not / that that which is good amongſt a few / is forth with good in all the world. Now let all men iudge / with what conſcience & truſt / M. Doct. cyteth M. Caluin / for to proue the office of the archbyſhop. But I maruell that he could not alſo ſee that / which M. Caluin wryteth in the next ſentence p. 131almoſt / where he ſayth that Chriſt is only the head of the church / and that the church doth cleaue one to an other vnderunder his domynion: but by what meanes? according (ſayth he) to the order and forme of pollicy which he hath preſcribed / but he hath preſcribed no ſuch forme of pollicy / that one byſhop ſhould be ouer all the myniſters and churches in a whole dioceſe / or one archbyſhop ouer all the miniſters and churches in a whole prouince / therefore thys forme of pollicy which is by archbyſhops / and ſuch byſhops as we hauehave / is not the meanes to knitte vsus one to an other in vnitie vnderunder the domynion of Chriſt. Touching the titles and names of honor which are geuen to the Eccleſiaſticall perſones with vsus / and how that princes and cyuill magiſtrates may and ought to hauehave the title / which can not be geuen to the myniſters / I hauehave ſpoken before / and therefore of archbyſhops / archdeacons / and the lord byſhops thus farre.