A Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift, Reply · Part 20 – Part 21
To the. 47. and. 48. pages.
THe reaſon is of greater force then you woulde ſeeme to make it / for as the twelueth place was to Mathias / ſo is a certayne churche vntounto a paſtor or myniſter / and as the Apoſtles ordayned none vntounto that place / before it was voyde / ſo ought not the Byſhoppe ordayne anye / vntill there be a churche voyde and deſtitute of a paſtor. And as the Apoſtles ordayned not any Apoſtle / further then they had teſtimonie of the worde of God / as it appeareth that S. Peter Act. 1. 20.proceedeth by that rule to the election / ſo ought no byſhop ordayne anye to anye function / which is not in the ſcripture appoynted: but there are by the worde of God at thys time / no ordinarie miniſteries eccleſiaſticall / which be not locall / and tyed to one congregation / therefore thys ſending abrode of miniſters / which hauehave no places / is vnlawfull.
And that it may the better appeare / that thoſe functions doe only remayne / which are appoynted to one certayne place / and that the reader may hauehave the clearer and playner vnderſtanding of all this matter / all the whole eccleſiaſticall function may be well deuided: firſt into extraordinarie / or thoſe that endured for a time / and into ordinarie / which are perpetuall. Of the firſt ſorte are the Apoſtles and Euangeliſtes / which the Lord vſed for a tyme as it were for cheefe maſons / and principall builders of his church / as well to lay the foundations of churches where none were / as alſo to aduaunce them to ſuch forwardneſſe and heighte / vntill there mighte be gotten / for the finiſhing of the building and houſe of the Church fitte paſtors / elders / and deacons. And that being done / they went from thoſe places into others / which thing may be perceiued by the continuall ſtorie of the Actes of the Apoſtles / and by diuers ſentences which are found in the Epiſtles of S. Paule. And therefore alſo / when the churches hauehave beene by antichriſt euen raſed from the foundations / God hathe ſtirred vp Euangeliſtes euen immediatly by this ſpirite / without any calling of men / to reſtore hys churches agayne: of whiche ſorte was Maiſter Wickliffe in our Countrie / Maiſter Hus and Ierome of Prage in Bohemia / Luther and ♉winglius in Germanie. &c. And after thys ſorte / God maye at hys good pleaſure worke / when hee purpoſeth to ſet in hys goſpell in anye nation / where the whole face of the earth is couered wyth the darckeneſſe of ignoraunce / and wante of the knowledge of God.
Of this ſort of extraordinary functions are the Prophetes alſo / which beſides a ſingular dexteritie and readines of expounding the ſcriptures / had alſo the gift of telling things to come / which becauſe it is not now ordinarily / I thincke there is none wildeny / but it is an extraordinary calling: For the other two of the Apoſtles and Euangeliſtes / it ſhall appeare more at large hereafter (by occaſion geuen by maiſter Doctor) that they are but for a tune.
The ordinary & continual functions of the church / are alſo deuided into two partes / for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole church / as are thoſe which are called elders / or they which take charge of one part of the Churche (which is the poore of eueryevery church) as are thoſe which are called deacons. Thoſe agayne that are presbyteri / which we terme elders of the church / and hauehave to do with the whole church / are eyther thoſe which teache and preach the word of God / and gouerne so / or elſe which gouerne only / and do not teach nor preach. Of the firſt kinde are paſtors & doctore. Of the ſecond are thoſe / which are called by the cōmon name of elders or auncients. Of all this ordinary function I ſhall hauehave occaſion to ſpeake / and of eueryevery one ſhall appeare that (which I hauehave ſayd before) that they are no vncertaine and vndefunte miniſteries / but ſuch as are limited vntounto a certaine churche and congregation. And firſt of all for the paſtor or byſhoppe whych is heere mentioned: whych name ſo euer we conſider of them / they do forthwith as ſone as they are once either ſpoken or thought of / imply and infer a certen and definite charge / being as the Logicians terme them / actuall relatiues. For what ſhepheard can there be / vnles he hauehave a flocke? and howe can he be a watchman / vnles he hauehave ſome citie to loke vntounto? Or how can a man be a maſter / onles he hauehave a ſeruaunt? Or a father vnles he hauehave a childe? Nowe if you will ſay that they hauehave a charge / and they hauehave flockes and cities to attende and watche vppon / for a wholo ſhire / or prouince / or realme / are their flockes / and their cities / and their charges.
Firſt of all in your reading miniſters that is vntrue / for they goe not to reade in all churches / but tary vntill they be hired in one. And therfore when the Biſhop hath laide hys hand of them / they are no more miniſters then before hys hund came vponupon them / becauſe they hauehave no charges / and therfore the patrone or perſon that hireth them to read / and ſetteth them a worke are their byſhops / and make them miniſters / and not the Biſhop of the dioceſe.
Secondarily for thoſe that preache to hauehave a whole dioceſe / or prouince / or realme to be their flocke / or citie to attend vponupon / is contrary to the pollicy or good huſbandrye of all thoſe / that woulde eyther hauehave their citie ſafe / or their flockes ſound. For who are they whych would appoynt one for the watch of a thouſand townes or cities / when as all they whych louelove their ſafetye / woulde rather hauehave for eueryevery citye many watchmen / then for many cities one? or what is he that is ſo watchfull and circumſpect / whoſe diligence and watchfulnes one citye aſſaulted wyth ennemies / will not wholely occupy and take vp? or what is he whoſe ſight is ſo ſharpe / that he can ſee from one ende of ye dioceſe / or prouince / or realme to the other ende thereof? or what is he that will commit the keeping of .xx. M. ſheepe to one man / that loketh for any good / or encreaſe of them? howe ſhall all theſe heare hys whiſtle / howe ſhall all knowe his voyce / when they can not heare it? how ſhall they acknowledge hym / when they can not knowe hym? howe ſhall they folowe him / when they can not ſee him goe before? howe ſhall he heale their diſeaſes / when he can not poſſibly know them. But ſome man wil ſay / that theſe are humaine reaſons / and likelyhodes whych maye be ouerthrowne wyth other ſimilitudes. Theſe notwithſtanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of thoſe things whych the miniſters are likened vntounto / and are of the moſte parte vſed of the holy Ghoſte hym ſelfe expreſly. But that there be no controuerſy left in this poynt / what is a flocke? S. Paule defineth it plainly / when he ſayeth: appoynte Titus. 1. 5.paſtors / or elders / or byſhops (for theſe woordes are indifferently vſed) through / not eueryevery ſhire / or prouince / or realme / but through eueryevery city / or town. And leaſt that any man ſhould here take occaſion to conclude / that then it is lawfull for one manne to be biſhoppe or paſtor of a whole Citie / ſuche as London or Yorke. &c. S. Luke in the Actes dothe declare the meaning of this place / where 14. Chap. 23.he ſayth / that they appoynted elders throughoute eueryevery congregation / ſo that if the citie or towne be great / and the profeſſors of the goſpell in it / be more then wil make conueniently a congregation / then there muſte be by the rule of God more paſtors and byſhops. Whervpon it appeareth / that bothe no paſtor or byſhoppe ought to be made without there be a flocke / as it were a voyde place for him / and that a flocke is not a realme / or prouince / or dioces (as we now call a dioces) but ſo many as may conueniently meete in one aſſembly or congregation. And that thys is the meaning of S. Paule / it appeareth by the practiſe of the Churches from time to time / whych hauehave both decreed againſt / and found fault wyth theſe wandering / and rouing miniſteries.
The great councell of * Calcedon decreed that no elder / or deacon / or anye Cap. 6. actio. 15other in the eccleſiaſticall order ſhoulde be ordained apolelymenos: that is loſely / and as it were let goe at randone whether he him ſelfe liſteth / whych he alſo interpreateth by and by more plainly when he addeth / that he ſhould not be ordained Eime idicos en eccleſia poleos e comes: that is / vnies it be ſpecially in a congregation of ſome citie or towne. And in the councell of Vrban (as Gratian reporteth / diſtinction. 70.) it was decreed / that the ordination that was made wt out any title / ſhould be void / and what that meaneth / is ſhewed by and by / when it is ſayd / & in what church any is intitled / there let hym alwayes remaine. And thys is alſo S. Ierome hys complainte / in that men were ordained vntounto the miniſterie / Ad Nepotianum.when they were choſen by no churche / and ſo went rounde aboute hauing no certaine place. And therefore thys / that none ought to preache / onles he hauehave ſome paſtoral charge / ought not to hauehave ben ſo ſtrange a thing vntounto you as you make it / if eyther the ſcriptures / or the councels / or the ancient fathers had bene ſo well knowen vntounto you / as eyther your name requireth / or you take vponupon you / whych dare ſo boldly pronoūce / that there can be ſhewed no text of ſcripture for the matter.
But you aſke what place Paule & Barnabas had apoynted them. What / meane you therby to conclude / that becauſe Paul & Barnabas the apoſtles had no place appoynted them / therfore a paſtor or biſhop ſhuld not? when this is one difference betwene the apoſtle and biſhop / that the one hath no certaine place appoynted / and the other hath. But I thinke I ſmel out your meaning / which is / that we may make apoſtles alſo at theſe dayes / and that that function is not yet ceaſed / for otherwiſe your reaſon is nothing worthe. Likewiſe alſo you aſke of Phillip whych was an euangeliſt. And ſo you thinke y• theſe running miniſters are lawfull / becauſe they are Apoſtles and Euangeliſts / againſt whych I ſhall hauehave occaſion to ſpeake ſhortly after in the. 50. page. But if a man be able to liue of himſelfe / and minde not to be burdenſome to the church / it ſeemeth vnreaſonable vntounto you / that he may not go about and preach throughout all churches.
Did you neuer read any learned diſputations / and that of learned wryters in our dayes about this queſtion: whether (although it be lawful) it be expedient P. Martyr vponupon the firſte to the Corinth. 9. chap. thincketh it more expedient for one to take wages of the church / although he be able to liue of hym ſelfe.that a man being able and willing to liue of himſelfe / ought to take wages of the church / for inconueniences whych might enſue of taking nothing? I do but aſke you the queſtion / becauſe you make ſo great a wonder at this / for I wil not take vponupon me heere the defence of it / becauſe I will not multiply queſtions.
And whye I may you maye not that man that is ſo able / and will be content to liue of him ſelfe / why I ſay may not he teache / and be the paſtor of ſome churche? Doe you thincke that for his forbearing the wages of the Churche / he may breake the lawes and orders that God hath eſtabliſhed? for the reſt contained in thoſe pages touching the ordaining of miniſters or byſhops / I hauehave before ſpoken at large.
To the. 49. page.
OEcumenius and Chryſoſtome ſaye that by Elders he meaneth Biſhops / not thereby to ſeuer thoſe that had the gouernement of the churche togither wyth the paſtor & miniſter of the word / which were called ancients / as you ſeeme to meane: but to put diſtinction betweene thoſe whych are elders by age / & elders by office / beſides y• / it is before alleaged y• it may be y• the paſtor or byſhop did in the name of all the elders / lay on his hands vponupon hym that was ordained. And laſtly / you know and can not denye that ſ. Paule in one or two places confoundeth the Biſhop and the Elder. To ſay that the byſhop may as wel ſay (receiue the holy ghoſt) as to ſay the words vſed in the ſupper / or to ſay y• the ſinnes of thoſe whych to beleue are forgiuen / is dis dia paſon, as farre as Yorke & London. For there / are commaundements to the miniſters to do that which they do / and heere is none: and there the miniſter doth not commaund that the breaue be the body of Chriſt / but he ſayth that it is. Neither dothe he commaund y• ſinnes ſhould be forgiuen / but pronounceth in the behalfe of God / that they are forgeuē. It is not vnlawfull alſo / that he with the congregation ſhould make a prayer for the aſſiſtance / or encreaſe of God his gifts vponupon him that is ordained, but to commaund that he ſhould receiue it / is meerely vnlawfull. For theſe words (receiue the holy ghoſt) are the imperatiue moode / and do expreſly ſignifie a commaundement. And ſo the biſhop may as well ſay to the ſea / when it rageth and ſwelleth / peace / be quiet / as to ſay receiue the holy ghoſt. And if you thinke it ſo good reaſon / to vſe this in the making of miniſters / becauſe you vſe the wordes of our ſauior Chriſt / why may not you as wel blow vponupon them as he did? for ſeeing that our ſauior Chriſt confirmed his word there / with a ſacrament / or outward ſigne / and you thinke you muſt therfore do it / becauſe he did it / you are muche to blame to leaue out the outward ſigne / or ſacrament of breath / whereby the faith of hym whych is ordained / might be the more aſſured of ſuch gifts / and graces as are requiſite in his function. I heape not vp heere the iudgement of the wryters / you knowe / I thinke / it myght caſely be done / if I liked to follow that way.