A Brief Answer, Text (3 of 3)

A Brief Answer · Text (3 of 3)

p. 11128 At length you come vntounto that part of my Treatise that concerneth the Church,About my treatise of the church. wherein I p. 112shew, what the Church is, and what it is to depart from it. Wherein it seemeth you were very loth to bee found any other at the finishing of this your vnquiet and wandring discourse, then at the beginning, and euer since, you hauehave declared your selfe to be? And first you bring in somewhat, that tendeth to the matter that you hauehave in hand; then other things also that do nothing belong vntounto it: both sorts so coupled and couched togither, as that howe diuers soeuer they are in nature, it seemeth that your purpose was, that both sortes notwithstanding should dwel togither vnderunder a roofe Concerning those that belong to the matter you hauehave in hand, first you set downe the estate of the matter betwixt vsus, as best agreeth to your purpose: and then you dally vponupon it at your pleasure The state of the matter that is betwixt vsus that you might better frame to your best aduauntage,Taking in hand that which I set downe, first some part of it he dismembreth, & some he falfifieth. one part of it you do dismember, and another you flatly falsifie. As touching that which you hauehave dismembred, whereas I graunted, that seeing you hauehave the outward professiō of the Christian faith; therefore in that respect you also may be accounted to bee of the Church generally: because you thought that this word generally was not for your purpose, therefore hauehave you cleane put it cut, and yet notwithstanding taken the rest as allowed by me; which without this limitation I neuer granted, and is in no wise to be allowed. As touching the other, with what face could you say it, that … do charge my fellow Ministers and brethren, first to p. 113hauehave vrged this separation &e? Whereas in truth I doo no where so charge them, but verie plainelie impure that to our aduersaries, and especially to those that are the most cunning, and most learned of them: adding further in plaine tearmes, both that they doo busily vrge that point, and would hauehave neither vsus nor others, to make at all any quaestion of it, is plainely appeereth in the beginning of the fifteenth section. But belike the time is nowe come, that God would hauehave it knowne vntounto the world, that the deeper you are rooted in those your Romish conceits, and the more sway that you beare among your selues that are of that sort, the more assured may we also bee, that you hauehave the more pi… off not onelyonly al conscience, and feare of God, o… all honestie too, and shame among men, so … to auouch so plaine vntruths-

29 Your dalliance tendeth to this ende,After he dallieth thereupon. That I shuld seem in such sort to graunt them to be of the church, as that it were no great matter, of whether religion a man were, of theirs, or ours. that now at the length I, against al custom of my brethren, do offer vntounto you this so great and sodaine courtesie: …hen, that you take vppon you, to shewe, what the cause is, why so I hauehave doone. This great and sodaine cortesie that now I offer vntounto you, is, that I doo not denie you to bee members of the same church with vsus generally: and therewithal grant, that the church wherof I speak, is the true church Catholike and Apostolike. I cannot denie you to be of one and the self-same church with vsus generally, because that being demaunded of your faith, you say that you beleue in Christ, and withal witnes that your profession by receiuing (after a sort) p. 114both the old Testament, & the new, & those two Sacraments that are therein to vsus commended: as we also on the other side beleue in Christ; receiue those scriptures; & hauehave those Sacraments in daily vse. But this curtesie, as you tearme it, doth not in truth so much please you, as it doth inwardly vex & fret you, that therby you see your wōted course so crossed with the truth it selfe, that you are out of hope so farre to abuse the facilitie of diuers, as heretofore ful oft you hauehave done to your own aduauntage: bearing them in hand, and facing them downe, that if they like not of your errors, but imbrace the truth of Christ as it is in it selfe, without your corrupt or needles additiōs, they are no more of the Church as they were before; but now must go seeke a new habitation, & so conuey their descent frō other auncestors, as that alwaies they find thēselues to be a distinct people frō you, not only since your corrupt estate, but also before.How they are of the Church. That you account this a new & a sodain curtesie, that I now at the length, against all custom of my brethren… as you say, do offer to you, that it is a meere fiction of yours, & a manifest vntruth: & yet notwithstā ding it is true too, that hitherto we hauehave accounted you (as your self alledgeth) & yet do the Synagogue of Sathan. For we all accoūt you in som sense to bee of the church, as the Scribes and Pharisies were; as that mā of sin is said to sit in the Temple of God; as abhomination was said to stand in the holy place; as Ismael was for a time with Isaac, in the house of Abraham; as Esau was for a time with p. 115Iacob, in the womb of Rebecca; as those wer builders, that euer refused the head stone of the corner, as those were his owne, that neuertheles did refuse him, & knew him not when he came amōg them; & many such like: & I dare aduenture, that you are able to alledge none, that in such sēse denieth you to be of the church. As for example, M. Caluin is one that most of al excludeth you from al sound interest in the church of God, & colour of it: as plainly appeereth, as in many other places of his godly, profoūd, & learned works, so namelie in the second chap. of the fourth booke of his Institutions. And yet he so concludeth his Treatise, as that in such sense as I hauehave set down, he leaueth you some interest in the church. His woordes are plaine; in the beginning of the last section of that chap. Quum ergo ecclesiae tit ulum non simpliciter vo…umus concedere Papistis, non idro Ecclesias apud cos esse infician…er sed tantum litigamus de vera & legiti…ima ecclesiae institutione, quae in communione cum sacrorum, quae signa sunt professionis, tum vero potissimum doctrinae requiritur. Antichrist ū in temple Dei sessurum praedixerunt Dan. & Paul: illius scelerati et abominandi regni ducem & antesignanum apud nos facimus Rom. Pont. Quod sedes eius in templo Dei collocatur, it a innuitur, tale fore eius regnum, quod nec Christi nec ecclesiae nomen aboleat. Hinc igittur patet, nos minime negare, quin sub eius quo que tyrannide Ecclesiae maneāt: sed quas sacrilegia impietate profanarit, &c. That is, when as we do not simply (or without al maner of limitatiō) grant to the papists the title of the p. 116Church, we do not (altogither) denie that they hauehave any churches, but only we striue about the true & lawfull institution of the Church, which is sought in the felowship (or partaking) partly of holy thinges which are signs of our profession, but chiefly of doctrine. That Antichrist should sit in the temple of God, Daniel and Paul hauehave for shewed of that wicked & abhominable kingdome, we doo holde that with vsus the captaine and chiefe leader is the B of Rome. That his seal is placed in the Temple of God, thereby wee are giuen to vnderstand that such shalbe the maner of his kingdome, that shall not abolish the name of Christ, or of the Church. Hence therfore it appeareth, that we doubt denie, but that vnderunder his tyrannie Churches remaine: but such as he with sacrilegious impietie hath prophaned: &c. And on 2. Thes. 2.4. he thus cōcludeth his treatise thereon. Templumerge Dei esse fateor in quo dominatur Papa, sed innumeris sacrilegiis prophanatum. That is: I graunt therefore that to bee the Temple of God, in the which the Pope beareth the sway, but with innumerable sacrilegies prophaned. Luther also (you know wel inough) dealeth roundly with you, & maketh you no better (in respect of our Apostacle and vsurpation) than the Synagogue of Sathan, and the Kingdome of the Beast: and yet; in respect of the worde and Sacraments after a som remaining among you, he dooth freely leaue you altogither as much as I hauehave giuen you. For writing against the Anabaptists hee graunteth that there is plurimum bom Christiani sub Papatu: and then reckoneth vp the holy Scriptures, both the Sacraments, p. 117and the Catechisme, of the Lords Prayer, the ten Commandements, & the Articles of the faith; graunting withall, not onelyonly that these things are after a sort to be found among you: but that the verie truth of them indeede is there to bee had; though by most of you they are all verie much corrupted. These are I trust sufficient for this matter:Rob. Bellar. tom. 1. com. 3. lib. 3. cap. 13. & cō. 4. lib. 4. cap. 16. and these hauehave I the rather alledged, because, that they are acknowledged also by one of the chiefe among your selues. In which respect it where not amisse that you went vntounto him againe, and there learned, how, with his better aduise, you might make these two to agree togither: that he, your master, doth acknowledge such things to be graunted by others before; and you, his scholler, should thus boldly set downe, that it is first granted by me against all custome of my brethren. Howbeit, in this case also I may holde my selfe the better contented with this your dealing, when as I consider that now-adaies you deale euen so, both with Ierome, & Augustine also.Quest. 11. ad Algasiū. De Ciu. Dei lib. 20. ca. 19 For whereas they both had so interpreted that place of the Apostle, 2. Thes. 2.4. (Ierome very plainely, but Augustine somewhat doubtfully at the first, yet afterward plainely inough also, for that he would hauehave it to be not in templo Dei, but in templum Dei: tanquam ipse sit templum Dei, quod est Ecclesia) that Antichrist should sit, not in the temple of Ierusalem, as you would hauehave it, but in the Church of God: because you see, that so the place maketh much stronger against you, therefore make you light of p. 118their authoritie, as plainly appeereth both in Bellarmine your champion, and in your note in the Rhemes Testament on that place. For whereas in this case you take it so ill at their hands, that they, should interprete that to be the Church of God, because therby you find your selues to be tied, for to seeke out your Antichrist there: it is lesse maruel that now when Antichrist hath shewed himselfe so much as he hath, you can so il bear, that we shuld take any such course, as auowing your state to be no better, than the power of Antichrist, neuertheles we shuld grant you to be of the church generally. And yet notwithstanding Ierome, in an other place also, whē, out of the end of the 2 chap, of Sophony, he fore-sheweth, that in time then to come, maruelous grieuous things should befal the church in the time of Antichrists raigne, althogh they be such, as at the first sight may seeme blasphemous (for any man to say, that such thinges at any time should befal the Church of God, as himselfe doth there confesse) yet neuertheles hee saith, there in the raigne of Antichrist, it shalbe turned into a wildernes, & deliuered to (sauage) beasts, & that it shall suffer whatsoeuer the prophet there describeth. Wher you may see that notwithstanding that it bee the Church; yet doth he not stick to say, that it should notably be eclipsed & that by the power of Antichrist also: & that althogh Antichrist should so ouerlay it, & that it should become as a wildernes, & be so much pestered with all noisome beastes; yet dooth hee name it, and account it the Church p. 119notwithstanding. But you think you hauehave sped very wel, & made a good market, in that I hauehave termed that Church to be the true,How they are of that Church, that is true, Catholike & Apostolike: & yet themselues nothing at all the better thereby. Catholike, & Apostolike church, wherof I allow you to be members by outward profession generally. But you need not boast so much of your peny-woorths, as you would gladly seem that you might. For those titles of true, Catholike, & Apostolike, do but appertain to the church in grosse or generally, in respect of the name or faith of Christ, that there is professed: & are not communicable, or to be imparted to all the members therof indifferently, or to all those sorts that (after their maner) are vnderunder the same, but onelyonly to one sort of professors therin, such as togither with the outward name, are of that profession indeede, that outwardly they doo pretend. From which because you are so farre departed as you are, therefore hauehave you no part at all in anie of those titles in respect of your selues, although they doo belong vntounto that Church (in respect of the faith that it professeth) whereof you are such rotten members as you are. And though your selues are corrupt, and in truth goe directlie against (in manie great and speciall matters, that are of the substance of it) the selfe-fame faith that in tearmes you professe generallie: yet neuerthelesse the faith it selfe that so you professe, beeing considered, not as you holde it, but as it is in it selfe, and as it is holden of vsus, and all others, that rectifie our profession by the written woorde, is of that nature, p. 120as to which those titles of true, Catholike, and Apostolike do of right appertaine. Which once being so fully and truly inuested in them, what hindereth, but that, though not corrupt members yet the whole may rightly take that denomination: both in respect of the faith it selfe, and in respect of the professors of it, one sort truly holding the same, & the others also professing none other but onelyonly the same generally? Doth not a land rightly take his denomination of that graine wherewith it is sowne, though afterward both it selfe be thin, and not onelyonly certaine other graine besides (that came in with it, or else the ground it selfe hath yeelded) is nowe spread among it, but is full of weeds likewise? If you can be content to allow vsus the one, you shall find no reason left you, why you should denie vsus the other. Much lesse if you call to remembrance that the same Church, whereunto Christ, and his Apostles, and all his Disciples adioined themselues, and from which Christ did neuer seperate himselfe (notwithstanding the great corruption and contempt of the woorde of God, and of Christ himselfe that raigned among them) was notwithstanding a true church, grounded on the election of God, and of the doctrine of the lawe, and of the Prophets generally, or in respect of the whole. As for my selfe, if I had not in as plaine speeches, and in as full and resolute maner, denied you to bee anie true members of the Church of Christ, and so consequently, had not therewithall, opened mine owne meaning, and p. 121cleane shut you out from the enioying of anie good roome therein: then might you with some better colour hauehave made such vauntes of those your peny-woorths. But when I did as fully condemne you for rotten members, as I did allow you in that other sense to bee of the Church, it was I warrant you, but Sardonicus risus, and a poore seelie ioy that you had thereby. As therefore in respect of the faith that in grosse you holde, and for the reuerence that I beare thereunto (as it is in it selfe, but not as you holde it) I allowe you in such sense to be of the Church: so bee you sure, and, if need be, I confirme it vntounto you againe, and againe, that in respect of your fowle and great Apostacie, I also, as well as my brethren, account you bee as had members, as euer were anie, and as farre from saluation, and al other priuiledges of the true, Catholike, and Apostolike Church (in the course that yet you are in) as euer were the Iewes themselues that put Christ to death, or any others, if you can find anie worse than they.

30 Nowe as touching the cause why I hauehave offered you,VponUpon what cause hee would hauehave it to seeme that I did grant them this curtesie as you tearme it, so great and sodaine curtesie, whereas here you take vponupon you to shew what cause my selfe do alledge for the same, and would make your Reader beleeue, that my selfe alledged none other than as you hauehave heere recited, heerein also you hauehave abused me much, like as in the rest you hauehave doone: for that it is cleere (& you cannot denie it) that I alledged diuers other reasons besides for that matter, and all of more importance p. 122than this (or at least, not one of them all inferiour vntounto it) and spent the better halfe of that section onelyonly in it, as in the fifteenth section morefully appeereth. But herein belike you wold againe giuegive some warning to al, to see to your fingers; & teach thē how you are wont to deale, in all your brablings against the truth: that is, to cutt out some od point by it self, that you thinke your selfe most able to deale withall, or to giuegive most colour vntounto you; and, setting downe that in steed of the whole, to tell your Readers, that that is the thing that we do rest on. Then also in reciting the words themselues, whereas the consenting that I did speake of, and which I misliked, was, to suffer you to make such an absolute diuision betwixt vsus, as my wordes doo there plainly declare: you, perceiuing that those words did not sound full inough to your aduantage, altered them quite, and tooke such as you thoght would serue you better (especially, standing so barely, as you hauehave there made them to do) & in steed of thē you hauehave made mee to say, to graunt that wee are not both of one Church, But stil I say, God bee thanked that your cause is no better (euen with your selues) but that you think needful so gredily to hunt after so poore & seely helps as these. It is bad inough of it selfe: and yet by such dealing you might easily knowe, that needs must you make it so much the worse. But if you will deale plainly, and are desirous a little to proue what you can do in the matter it selfe that most doth gal you, this is the thing that you hauehave p. 123to do. You are to shew what authoritie you hauehave in the word of God, why you should so resolutely condemne all those to bee none of the Church of Christ, that agree not with you in those pointes that now are in cōtrouersie betwixt vsus.Not so careful to keepe them in: as that they should not thrust out others. This is the thing, you know well inough, that I did beat on: not caring so much to keep you in; as not to suffer you to exclude others so much as you do. For seeing you are such rotten members as you are, & yet take vpō you to be the iudges of al others besides, to thrust out, & take in at your pleasures (euer cō demning those that are right, & wickedly iustifiing those that are wrōg) it was not so needful now to bee so carefull to holde you in vnderunder that title, though it were no more but generally, as it was, to let you vnderstand, both howe far your selues are f…n frō the truth it self, & how manifest and open wrong you do to those that so you shut out, as not apperteining to the Church of Christ. And seing that by this only sleight you do so much preuaile with many, who dare in nothing dissent frō you: so long as they feare that in so doing they forthwith should leefe the interest they had in the Church, nor somuch as inquire of any thing you teach, on what ground or warrant you do it, vpō the persuasiō that they hauehave of you, that you alone are of the church, & that in you it cannot er…hēce is it that it was needful for me also (hauing in hand to answer those doubts that chiefly hindred the weaker sort and such as of conscience cleaue vntounto you) so to discouer your subtiltie therein, as that so manie as p. 124would looke about them, & not esteeme of things as they are accounted, but as they are indeede, might the better perceiue,What it is that for this matter they are to do. that with such toyes, they need not any more to be stayed. You on the other side, if you wil say anie thing to the purpose in this matter, must be able to shew, that notwithstanding that wee receiue Christian Religion so much as we do, yet can we be none of the Church of Christ in anie respect: either because of some thing that we hold besides, that is of that force as to exclude vsus from all interest there; or els (which is the thing wherewithall you will rather charge vsus) for that some of those opinions of yours, wherin we dissent from you, are of that importance, as that no bodie can in anie sense bee of the Church of God (not so much as generally, which is the thing that wee doo not denie vntounto you, notwithstanding that you are falne so farre as you are) vnlesse he hold them all, and euerie one, without exceptiō. Or to speak more plainly, you must proue your propitiatorie sacrafice, transubstantiation, popedome, righteousnes of works, intercession of Saints, prayer to them, praier for the dead, purgatorie, image-woorshipping, pilgrimage-gadding, and such like, to be so needfull points of Christian Religion, as that whosoeuer holdeth not them, or any of them, hee cannot bee of the Church of Christ, though neuer so much hee holde all, that Christ or his Apostles hauehave left to vsus in the written word. This is the onelyonly thing that must helpe you, for this matter: this if you do not, whatsoeuer p. 125els it is that you bring, neither doth it hurt vsus, neither can it comfort you, whatsoeuer ioy you wold seeme to conceiue, vponupon this new and sodaine curtesie offered vntounto you.

31 Those others that nothing belong to this matter,Two other matters of another kind. and yet are lodged vnderunder a roofe, are two: one, that you take vponupon you to shewe, why I tooke in hand to write this Treatise of Pacification; the other, that you do before-hād giuegive vsus hope of a certaine new woorke, which perhaps heereafter may be taken in hande. As touching the former of these two;Why I shuld write this Pacification. what meane you, againe to take in hande to find out the cause in mine owne words, and again so far to leaue the plaine way, as before you did? Had you so good successe in the former, that now you hauehave so good a courage to attempt it againe? But it is your lot (in the bad cause that you hauehave in hande) euer to bee sure to fall, whensoeuer you striue to arise. The cause why I wrote this treatise of Pacification, I had my selfe downe in twoo places: in my Epistie Dedicatorie, the second leafe, and first page; and in the beginning of the Treatise it selfe, in the first leafe, and second page. In the place that you alledge, out of the third section, and either out of the foureteenth or fifteenth page, there do I giuegive no cause at all, why I wrote this Treatise: neither yet do I directly set downe, But by way of supposall, that which so greedilie you catch for your purpose to cheare you withall. For my wordes are plaine, that we also will bee content to set by Religion for a season &c, and now consider p. 126of those things alone that do concerne our ciuille-state: & againe. Be it therfore, that whatsoeuer their profession be, yet shal they hauehave many of those that now are with vsus to ioine with them, if in this point there be found no lawfull impediment or matter to stay them. And now Sir I pray you, if you would needs hauehave taken vpō you out of mine own words to declare vntounto others, what moued me to write this treatise, ought you not rather to hauehave taken it out of one of those places before recited, where I dealt in the selfe-same matter: then out of this other alledged by you, where I speake nothing at all of anie such thing? And, if you had ment honest & plain dealing, would you not hauehave taken the course that I speake of? But put-case, that that also were some part of the cause, could you yet hauehave the face, altogither to set by Religion, and matters of faith, (which I set by but for a time, whilst that I reasoned of the other) & then tel your reader, that the consideratiō of our ciuil estate was the only matter; & that, by mine own confessiō: & that my selfe confessed, that indeed now I perceiued, that me held with vsus rather for respect of state & ciuil cōmodities, than of conscience & beleefe. Did I any where confesse this? HaueHave you no shame to charge me with so manifest an vntruth? Dooth your religion giuegive you that libertie? HaueHave you so throughly digested that new lesson of yours (to keep no faith to those that professe the gospel) that now you regard not what you say of them, nor how you charge them. But the qualitie of your cause being better considered, p. 127the matter is lesse, that by you it is accordingly handled. But you ad hereunto,That regard of temporal commodities is all that we hauehave to mooue others to our profession, as he wold hauehave it. that regard of temporal commoditie in verie truth is the only reason, or bait that wee can lay before you at this time, wherby to moue you to come to our part: and withall, that our Lord knoweth how bare & brickle a thing it is, & how long or litle while it may indure. In the former, wherof you seem now to discouer the reason to vsus, why you would before hauehave made your reader beleeue, that I made this Pacification for no cause els, but for that now I perceiued, that mē held with vsus, rather for respect of ciuil commodities, than of conscience and beleefe. For if there were on our parts no other groundwork of persuasion, but onlie the regard of temporall cōmoditie: then without questiō I could hauehave had to this purpose no other matter at al to write of; & so consequently needes must I hauehave made the treatise only for it. Therfore do but proue that to your gentle reader: & the other wil follow vpō it, hard at the heels. In the latter of thē, wherin you talk of the bricklenes of it, & how litle it may endure, althogh you cast in certain other speches besides, to shadow the matter so far as to your purpose shuld be needful for the time: yet considering your attempts since, against the person of her Ma. & the State it self, it may wel be both that your self were priuy to thē; & that, if so they had falne out, you had laide thereby a pretie foundatiō to win the credit of a Prophet among you, as one of your fellowes lately did in England. We know (as wel as you) that al erthly prosperitie p. 128subiect to mutabilitie: and that no man knoweth the time or season, howe long, or how little it is to continue. And if it shall please God to enter into anie such triall of vsus, as you would fainest see, we… trust that we shal be in a readines to obey his wil: and that it also shall be, both to our great benefit, and good of the Church; and to the further ouerthrow, both of your selues, and of your profession, now in this declining estate of your wicked pope-dome. I also graunt, as touching these speeches of yours, if otherwise the cause be good, and the persons be not suspitious, such speeches as these may well be vttered without offence. But I ad withall, both that it is a false slaunder of you, to charge vsus, that we relie vponupon it (and yet neuertheles are wee of dutie verie much bound heerein to acknowledge the goodnes of God towards vsus; and that so much the rather, as wee see the same so much to greeue you, and so firmly to be continued hitherto vntounto vsus, notwithstanding so many vile attempts of yours, to the contrary:) and that it is likely, considering the qualitie that you are of, that in these verie wordes you shewed your selfe (to some purposes in couert manner, but otherwise plainely ynough) not onelyonly how to lay in wait for the same, but also that you had already conceiued an vndoubted hope to preuaile, wherein notwithstanding hitherto (God bee thanked) you are cleerely defeated. And our trust further is, that seeing you are now so farre past, not only religion, but all honestie too, as witnes these your vile and naughtie p. 129practises, continually iterated one after an other: both that God will still bee against you; and that the most of your wonted adhaerents, considering into howe reprobate waies they may easily finde you hereby to bee giuen, will nowe begin euerie where, to see how much you hauehave abused them, & daily forsake you more and more. That Strumpet, you know, that sometimes hath beene in that honour and estimation, with the Princes and people of the earth, and with whome they hauehave liued in fornication, being by her inchantments deceiued, is at length to bee forsaken and hated of them, to be stript naked and burned also. And it may bee, that GOD will vse this extreame wickednes of yours, to make others both better to know you, & the more to detest you also: so to make the readier way to those his iudgements, which we besech him to hasten to his good pleasure, for his names …; and for the comfort of all his people, that soone should hauehave a readier way to their saluatiō, if that great stumbling blocke were once remooued out of the way.

32 As touching the hope that before hand you giuegive vsus of that new Booke,Of the hope that he giueth vsus, of a certaine new worke to be taken in hande: which none of them all, nor altogither, can euer perform that perhaps heereafter may be taken in hande, you hauehave in such sorte set downe the argument therof already, that, althogh it may be that some of you could giuegive the aduenture of such an attempt: yet, to deale plainly with you, I must needes giuegive you to vnderstand, that it is such a matter, as that none of you all, nor altogither, are able to performe; no, nor to come anie p. 130thing neere. For therein perhaps must be declared, and that more largely, that, the regard of temporall commodities set aside, all other respects, reasons, allurements, motiues, and considerations, which heauen and earth can yeeld, whereby to stirre a Christians man to imbrace any religion, are all for you, and none for vsus. But auaunt Sathan? Hast thou not yet left thy woonted bragging? Art thou not yet perswaded, but that thou maiest bee able so farre to aduaunce, so notorious falshood of thine which is so plainely discouered alreadie? Wert thou not sufficiently foyled before, when as thou didst but vaunt of the kingdomes of the world and the glorie of them, as if all were thine, and at thy disposition: but that nowe thou hast so farre possessed the mindes of some, as that in them hauing gotten the place, thou art not ashamed now to say that whatsoeuer argumentes of perswasion there are, in heauen, or in earth, they are all for that corruption that thou hast scattered into the church, and none at all for the truth it selfe? As for thy selfe, it is but thy kind: thou art a lier from the beginning; and the father of all falshood and lies. And as for those that thou hast so far bewitched, it is the iust iudgement of God, that they illusion should bee so forcible and strong against them, because they would in no wise receyue the louelove of the truth. But for the matter that is in hande, neither thou, nor thine, shall euer be able to come anie thing neere, vntounto that which thou wouldst seeme that thou could. It is not in thee: the tou…e… p. 131that thou hast taken in hande, thou art in no wise able to finish. In boasting thy selfe so immeasurably thou hast more plainly discouered thy shame. For either must thou with shame giuegive ouer this proud vaunt of thine: or els so farre discouer thy weaknes, whensoeuer thou shalt attempt to do it, that thereby thy shame shall be the greater. Howsoeuer it be, this glorying of thine must needes be confusion & shame to thee: it is too late to auoid it now. But (to leaue your prince that ruleth in you … to come to your self again) I pray you good Sir, hauehave you already so clean forgotten, how litle able to performe that enterprise your late champion was, that hauing gotten half a score reasons on behalf of your profession, such as hee thought none could answere, with great confidence did publish the same, & challenging all men to make him answere, quickly found, that neither hee, nor his fellowes were in any wise able to stand vntounto it? Was this Icarus of yours so lately ouertaken, & that so plainly, in that presumptuous follie of his: & yet must you needes bee renewing the same point of folly again to the ouerthrow of your self likewise? Neuertheles by mine aduise it were not amis, that as your bel-foūders were wont to desire their stā ders-by to say a sort of pater-nosters, & auees while the mettal was rūning; or as when your great masters wold hauehave faced vsus down, that a late Princes of ours was with child, they ordained processions, & made publicke praiers, that it might be a man-child, & a proper one too: so you likewise, seeing p. 132perhaps it must needs be done, and none of vsus may say to the contrarie, would now aduise you of such necessary helps before hand, that they be not wanting when you should need them. Againe, must the regard of temporall commoditie bee set aside in this account,He forgat himselfe when hee laid this vntounto vsus. as a matter that is onelyonly for vsus, & not for you? If you meane, that the profession of faith that we do hold, must needs be more welcome to others, because it deliuereth them from power of darknes, and miserable seruitude, wherinto of late you had brought them, in this case I graunt, you said very truely, but nothing at all to your owne purpose; and consequently, we cannot bee perswaded yet, that you had so honest meaning in you. But if you meane that we which are the teachers of it, teach it but for our owne aduauntage, and not for the truth it self, (which lieth fairest for your meaning, and most agreeth to your disposition) then must I tel you, that herein also you …latlie pronounce against the knowne and manifest truth. For who seeth not, or howe can your selue? denie, but that, in regard of temporall commoditie, … had beene much better for vsus to hauehave taken parte with you, than so far to hauehave sundered our selues form you: if so be that we could so hauehave held out the woord of god; or beeing once come in, hauehave suppressed it againe? Is it not a readier way vntounto temporall commoditie, to keepe men so ignorant of the sufficiency of their saluation in Christ, that we may thereby hauehave them euer to hang more vponupon vsus, and to make no ende of endowing vsus with the p. 133best things they had, for their soules health: then to teach our saluation in him to be so absolute, and in himselfe so fully accomplished to all beleeuers, that the people of God need not to seeke for such by-helps to any other whatsoeuer? Is it not a readier way to temporall commoditie, to make kings & princes beleeue, that they must hold their crowns and kingdoms at our plesure: then plainy to acknowledge the fulnes of their right and power; and that wee therein hauehave in no wise to meddle with them? But the reasons are manie, that turne this backe to your owne bosoms. What dealing then is this in you, to lay that on vsus, which is yours and so boldly to set vsus downe so great vntruthes? Or, what one part is there of your profession (euen in the cleerest of all, as you do vse it) that one way or other doot not specially respect this temporall commoditie (that you would faine hauehave so far from you, and so neere vntounto vsus) that is, either your profit, or els your pleasure, or ease; or at least, your credit or estimation with others: or yours at least, much more than ours, to all intents and purposes whatsoeuer? But hauing once brought your fauorites to this, that they shall but heare you, and read such thinges as you set them downe; and vtterly refuse and despise all others besides, wee graunt it is for you to set a good face on the matter, how bad soeuer the cause be that you defend: that so those miserable adherents of yours, may gather the better hope they are right, when they see that you do so boldly defend them; and neuer p. 134be able to find how farre you doe abuse them, because they reiect or abandon from them al such as should bring them to the knowledge of it. In the meane season you are no babes, that can so cunningly handle your matters. And thus much as touching that part of your dooings, where in you hauehave directed your stile chiefly against mee, but yet against others withall.

Of the residue that he hath otherwise broght vsus.33 As for the residue, that (in this your second edition) you hauehave otherwise brought vsus, my selfe doo not meane (as before I saide) to go against is, nor to discouer your weakenes therein (but to hold my selfe contented with mine own defence) both because that for the most parte it rested now the controuersies that are betwixt vsus; and your selfe is yet so little disposed to bee further aduised in the others. For the controuersies are so handled alredy, that it is not so needful now to take in … againe so stale and miserable remnantes as those: howsoeuer that you can with such countenance obtrued vntounto vsus such washe, and clipt, and counterfeit coines for good & lawfull; as though yes the Church of God did not knowe the vanitie of them. And seeing that your selfe hath herein alreadie sufficiently declared, how hardly you take it to be otherwise aduised than standeth with your present humour, I shall bee as readie for my part to passe you ouer for those matters, and not to trouble your humour therein: sauing onelie that I will not sticke to put you in minde of some fewe thinges, which I thinke were good for you p. 135to consider of, both in respect of the truth it self; & that you also may grow to some better temper, and not so highly esteeme of your selfe; as hath so great contempt of others ioined withall. And first as touching the whole,Of the whole booke generally. the title you knowe you hauehave altered now, and that in such fort, that hereby onelyonly we might easily charge you,Of the Title of it. that so much as in you lieth, you hauehave marred it all, euen whatsoeuer therin doth tend to the rule of a godly life: & yet not denieng, but that the scriptures therein are good, the Fathers also that there are alledged, & other rules of godlines that are ther prescribed, so far as either of them doth agree with the written word. But my meaning is (as before in the preface I noted) that seing you hauehave turned now the matters you speak of, fiō a Christiā exercise, to be a directorie guiding men vntounto saluation, if therby you meane to teach your adherents, to seeke their saluation by their good woorks or godlines of life (as the common opinion of you all, and this nowe booke of yours in manie places doth sufficiently witnesse, that so you meane:) then it is certaine, that because such woorks, bee they otherwise neuer so good, yet to such end doone, are vtterlie lost, and therein become odious to God, therefore when as in this your newe booke you teach men so to bee occupied in these matters, you hauehave made your selfe a false prophet thereby, and this booke of yours an accursed pamphlet in the day of the Lorde. Whereby also you hauehave made it nowe more plainely to appeere, why you p. 136set in hand togither out of others those lessons of godlines, and to commend the same to the people: not for any care you had to make them more godlie, but to vse that occasion to nourish in them that pestilent error, of ascribing their saluation (for a good part of it) to their owne proper woorkes; and withall to let in your other errors (wherof this new booke of yours is full) which otherwise you knew well inough, that by anie learning you were neuer able to commend vntounto them. Wherein it may be, that you were perswaded, that at the least you should be likened to the Graecians of old, that when they could not by maine force get within the walles of Troy,The Troian horse. afterward by seeming to break vp their siege, and to leaue a sacred horse behind them, to the great benefit of the Citie, if it were taken in vntounto them, by that meanes obtained, that certaine bandes of their owne soldiours were vnwares taken in, and all the rest immediately after brought in besids, to the vtter ouerthrow of those that receiued so goodly a praesent, so craftily prouided, and left vntounto them. It may be I say, that you might liken your self vntounto these. For you also, finding that now by learning you are not able to settle your errors in the harts of others, as heretofore you were wont to do while you were not resisted; would seeme now to leaue off dealing in matters of controuersie, and heerein to treat of deuotion only: and yet throughout your whole booke you so interlace the controuersies also, and make deuotion so to hang vppon them, that none can receiue p. 137your rules of godlines, but that if they mark not well, they must needes receiue your errours withall. And so vnderunder pretence of teaching godlines, your meaning is, therby to let in your errors into them, as they by leauing that horse vntounto them, did seeke to gaine the Cittie thereby. But these thinges are in summo genere: The monks hood.of famous warriors, twoo mightie peoples, a noble Cittie, a strange policie, and to the one side vtter destruction. A baser kinde will bee meeter for you.Acts and mon. 1209. You might therfore liken your selfe rather to Bartrams boy, in that busie, but causles, and therfore ridiculous stir at Oxford, when on the sodain, in a speciall pagent of their popish deuotion, they were all perswaded the Church was on fire ouer their heads, and thereupon hasted foorth so fast, that they cloyed the doores, and hindred themselues. At which time the boy to auoide the presse, climed vponupon the doore, and then espying a shifting Moonke, getting out ouer the heads of those that stucke fast in the doores, thought it a fit opportunitie to him, to leape into his cowle behind him, that so he might get out of the daunger that then was feared. For so you likewise hauehave thought this moonkish hood of your popish deuotion to be so fine a way for you, to get out your popish errors withall, that you could not hold, but in they must, and abide the aduenture: seeing well inough, that now they wax stale and out of credite, and therefore like quickly to perish, vnlesse by such means you could happily raise their credite againe, or at p. 138least praeserue them (some what longer yet) from that consuming fire of the woorde of God, that (not in supposall, as in the other, but in verie truth) so mightily hath begun to consume them alreadie. Howbeit as that Moonke did soone after find fault with his burthen, and rid himselfe of it: euen so you had stuffed those your precepts of godly life so full of your popery, that you may not maruell though they tooke so ill with so vnnaturall and needles a burthen, and did seeke to bee disburdened of it. In your newe booke (I graunt) you hauehave taken a better order. For there you hauehave made the burthen so strong, and the bearer so weake, that it can neuer deliuer it selfe: but must be content to bee vnderunder it stil. Then also whereas how you hauehave inlarged it,Of the matter of it. in volume or quantitie, double to that it was before, or at least neere thereunto, yet are these your additions such (eyther so little appertaining vntounto the former argument, when the matter it selfe is good: or … so vaine and weake, when otherwise they answer the argument that was before propounded) as that howsoeuer you are offended with mee, for taking out (but little to speake of) from your former bookes yet, if anie frend of yours, at whose handes your would better take it, would now take out the most of that which in this your second edition you hauehave put vntounto it, my opinion (by your patience) is, that hee should make your booke so much the better aesteemed (but onelie for the names sake) with most of your frends that would p. 139read it for godlines sake, or to stir vp their minde therunto. Not denying hereby, but that some part of the matter (in it selfe) is good: as, that there is a God, which rewardeth good and euill, and of the certaintie of Christian Religion (which two matters are prosecuted at large in two seuerall chapters, and are the greatest part of your additions) and some other besides. But those thinges you knowe were at large handled before by the Fathers of olde against the Gentiles and Iewes: and of late likewise; as by diuers others in some parte or other, as occasion serued, so verie fullie by Monsieur du Plessis, in that notable booke of his of the truth of Christian Religion. You knowe likewise, that such thinges as are of diuers argumentes, are not euer so welcome vntounto those that (for the time) desire to heare but of the one: though in their kinde the one bee as good as the other, and in time and place as welcome. But yet as touching those reuerend Catholike Priestes that you speake of, that suppose so manie among vsus to bee falne vntounto Athersine by beating out the pointes of Religion, first it may bee that they doo thinke, that so manie as abandon their woonted errours of poperie, doo vtterlie cast of all true Religion likewise. And yet notwithstanding I will not denie, but that if by them-selues they measure others, they may very well thinke (if they can hauehave the grace to consider, how far they are falne) that it is needfull now to lay againe those first principles of all p. 140Religion, that there is a God, and that the faith of Christ is (without question the onelyonly truth. But yet are they not able in this lande to finde anie others, of what estate or calling soeuer, by whome they may take so true a skantling for these matters, as by themselues: as their trecherous practises long since hauehave witnessed, and daily yet doo, to the shame of you all. And this of the whole.

Of a few particulars.34 To come to particulars, my purpose is no more but this, a little to vnfould vntounto you these two points: how loth you are to be admonished, or to amend, any thing that already you hauehave set downe, be it neuer so wrong; and yet that there is verie good cause why you shuld not trust to your selfe so much as you do. That you are loath to be admonished,That he is loath to amend that hee hath done amis. or to amend, that which once you hauehave doone amisse, appeereth sufficiently in this, for that you doo so greeuously take this little amendment that herein I hauehave tendered vntounto you, though in neuer so quiet and gentle manner. Insomuch that whereas I neuer vsed any contumelie of speech against you, for anie thing that you had so corruptly put in; and besides that, absteined also from iust reproofe, and neuer did anie more, but either left them out, or amended them in quiet manner: you on the other side, by all such occasions hauehave stirred vp your selfe, to lay on load in reprochfull and taunting speeches. But whereas it seemeth your selfe doth account them as deadly instrumentes against whome they are throwne: yet the truth is, they are but the shuttle-cocks p. 141of your owne vanitie, and carrie with them no force at all against the truth and vpright dealing. Then also I thinke your selfe may not well denie, but that I admonished you of, or my selfe amended certaine things, wherin you were wrong: which notwithstanding you hauehave not corrected in this your new booke, but hauehave come forth with them againe as corruptly now, as you did before. Whereof although I were able to alledge verie manie examples: yet I will content my selfe with few. And first when you hauehave occasion (whether orderly giuen, or purposely taken) to alledge anie thing out of those bookes that are not Canonical: yet you still call them the Scripture,Apothrypha, & Canonicall, like Scripture with him: and why. and the H. Scripture, as well as those books that are Canonicall, or vndoubted Scripture indeed. And this you do both against the vse & custom of the primitiue Church (respecting the whole generally) and of an euill heart to the holie, and vndoubted woorde of God: that by aduauncing other bookes also to the same degree, you may so the more easily take downe the better estimation of it, and make it no better than those that are of your own allowance. In like manner whereas before I put you in mind of many places corruptly translated,Corrupt translations stil continued against the Fathers. or wrong applied, yet neuertheles you hold on still your head-strong course: as, propter dolos, for in lubrico posuisticot. Psal. 73. against Ierome; and aboue, for vponupon all his woorks. Psal. 144. against Saint Ierome, and against Saint Augustine both; and manie others like vntounto these. Wherein you doo not onelie go against p. 142the Fathers, but also against the truth it selfe: and all to continue your former course, and a little therby to helpe out a few od points of your profession, not woorth three halfe-pence the best of them all. So likewise howe you did some-what ouer-slippe your selfe beyond the warrant of the woorde of God, to ascribe that as a custome to Isaac, that the text reporteth but of one speciall time, I noted vntounto you towards the beginning. That, you may see, howe I had amended, onelyonly by leauing your errour out, and nothing at all laying it vntounto your charge, not bewraying it vntounto others. Which notwithstanding now you hauehave taken it in againe, and more discouered your weakenes therein, than you did before. But it may be you will say that that part of your booke was printed before. What if it were? yet was not the vsuall helpe of corrections in the end of your booke denied vntounto you. But for this cause to leaue all the fore-part of the booke, and (to bee sure) to leaue you out three partes to your selfe, and to take in hand but the fourth part onelyonly, the hindmost of all (by which time though the print went on, yet might you hauehave good time of aduisement) & there to picke out but some few things also, wheras I (pag. 271.) holpe to rectify the number of quarters, that you (pag. 297.) had set down for a Corus in Salomons prouisiō,Corus. far aboue. Ierom beiond al mesure, & much aboue Iosephus also: you neuertheles do still hold on your former course, & in your new booke hauehave set it down altogither p. 143as corruptly as you did before. A little after (pag. 300.) you had set down, that on thursday &c friday the Iews cried crucifige against Christ, & prefored the life of Barrabas before his. And yet I trust you know well inough, that thogh they bare him il harts before, & likly inough that they on thursday were practising against him: yet neither of those two things that you speake of were doone but onelyonly on friday. Wheras therfore I (pag. 281.) left out your thursday, & set them on the head of friday only: yet you in your headstrōg course hauehave put in thursday againe as it was before. After that again, handling the vanitie of worldly pleasures, you bring in (pag. 322.) a text of Scripture (wrōg quoted also, both for the booke & chapter) that the linage of king Baasa was destroied, for that they prouoked god in their vanities. In which place by those their vanities, hee meaneth their idolatries: as by the place it selfe is apparant; and by the best interpreters thereon, olde and newe. And Iohannes Benedictus, a Diuine of Paris, and one of your owne companie (taking his direction, as himselfe professeth, out of Ierome, Augustine, Ambrose, Gregorie, Hilary, Chrysostom, and all the best approoued writers that antiquitie yeelded, as appeereth in his Epistle Dedicatorie) in his Concordance, vponupon the word vanitas, doth plainely so interprete that verie place. Wheras therfore I left it out, as not appertaining to the matter you had in hande: you notwithstanding hauehave put it in again, and as wrong quoted as it was before. Belike p. 144at the first you followed some table, and whatsoeuer place you found to talke of vanitie, that did you think to be for your purpose, and in that perswasion persist as yet. But whether that were in you a vanitie, or not, you may at leisure resolue, if it please you. So likewise (euen with the common sort) do you plainly mistake that place of the Hebrews, concerning Esau, saying, that God would not forgiue him, though he demanded it with teares, …. Wherein, although I will not denie, but that you may hauehave some other that dooth so expoundit: yet is the stone it selfe a sufficient interpreter of that place against all. And your owne fellowes of Rhemes, in their note on that place, doo plainelie say, that it is not meant that Esau could not finde remission of his sins at Gods hands (which is the sense that you hauehave gathered) but that hauing once folde and yeelded vp the right of his first-birth vntounto his yonger brother, it was too late to be sorie for his vi… uised bargaine. In which latter part of their note, although if they had better heeded the storie whence it was taken, they might hauehave interpreted the same somewhat better, of the blessing that was past to an other: yet is the former very sound, and crosseth you as directly as may be. And wheras I had so mended it to your handes; you neuerthelesse come in with it againe as you did before: so well seene belike in the woord of God (in those matters that are of deeper iudgement, or fore-stalled with som vnaduisednes; or ignorant preiudice) that as you can readily erre with the ignorant and p. 145common sort; so likewise can you as little perceiue it, when as you are gently admonished of it. The like might be said of manie others: but these I trust may be sufficient for this matter. And yet I will acknowledge withall, that some few of them you hauehave some-what amended much, like as you had direction from mee. As for example, whereas before your woordes were, that Christ complained greeuously by the Prophet that sinners built vponupon his backe, and prolonged their iniquitie, 348, which indeed doth not stand with the sense of the place, as I had noted 330, and therewithall holpe the place by saying that Christ might so complaine) you, perceiuing some-what your former mistaking, hauehave thus far holpen it, that our Sauiour seemeth to complaine &c. Againe, whereas you said before, that Christ went foorth into the streets twise in one day to reprehend those that were idle, and I, perceiuing t…o faultes therein, amended them both, saying; that Christ in his parable still reprehended greeuously those that stood idle &c. you, perceiuing now that it was not Christ himselfe that went forth to reprehend the idle, but that he put the parable of another that did, hauehave nowe thus farre mended it, that you say that Christ in his parable went forth into the streetes twise in one day &c. But as for that other slip of yours that you talke so praecisely of twise in one day, that hauehave you mended nothing at all: and it may be not perceiued it neither. And yet the text it self (that you do speake of Mat. 20. 17.) doth plainly say, that first he went forth earlie p. 146in the morning, then afterwards againe at the third, sixt, ninth, & eleuenth houres of the day. In somuch that it is the more maruell, that finding him still (as you say, which notwithstanding wee read but of once) to rebuke those that were idle you neuer foūd him notwithstanding at any time to rebuke this your idle reading and regarding of his holy worde. The sense also of diuers places of Scripture, which you (out of others sometimes) had corruptly set down, alledging it for the sense of the place, which was either but an alluding vntounto it, or els not so good I had one way or other either amended, or made more tollerable: which you notwithstanding hauehave broght in again, as far wide as they were before. I am not ignorant, but that by one of those foure waies, which you take vponupon you so cōmonly to vse (& wherof sometime there is some vse in deede) in the expounding of holy scripture, there may be some colour pretended, for such wanton & wandring expositions… & that diuers there be, of reuerend accoūt otherwise that therein hauehave not a little offended. But in this light of the Gospell, those that so dally with the word of God, are worthy rather to bee hissed out; than to bee repressed by admonition. Last of all wheras you had oftē vsed those profane speeches of hap, chance, & fortune, perhaps & perchance, and I had not onelyonly left them out, & put others in their place (such as gaue no such way to offence, & yet serued the place as well as the other) but also did bring in Augustine against them: you neuertheles p. 147hauehave taken them freely in again, as one that is …oth ouermuch to amend, or litle regardeth what offence by his speech he may giuegive vntounto others.

35. That there is good cause why you should not trust to your self so much as you do,That fowly he erreth in manie things. might ea…y be gathered throughout your whole book. But first, as touching all such matters as belong to the controuersies, with those (as I said) I will not meddle, because that whatsoeuer slip you make therein, yet it is hard for you to perceiue it, much more to acknowledge it: so long as you are perswaded, that you are in the truth, or doo but retaine the mind that you do, so wilfully winking at the manifest light, & so hardning your harts against this gratious calling of God. Then also certaine other thinges there are, that are no controuersies them selues, and yet notwithstanding so neere allied to them, that therin also I may not deale with much better hope than in the other. For therin also you shew your self to be so impudently giuen to maintaine your wonted fancies, that you care not how far you aduance whatsoeuer you thinke may anie way serue your purpose therein, nor howe far you abaje whatsoeuer it is that crosseth the same: nor howe farre you eclipse or darken the truth that goeth against you; nor yet howe farre you aduaunce anie manner of errour that maketh for you.In the ods that he conceiueth betwixt faith and works. Pref. 7. & in the book it selfe. 315. Hence is it, that the more to discredite the reading and hearing of the woorde of God, and to keepe the people in ignorance still, and the better to aduance that vnsauery and lothsome p. 148righteousnes of your owne good woorkes against that righteousnes of faith, that resteth onelyonly in the death and merits of Christ: you slily & smoothly beare vsus in hande (but with how wicked an heart, and how vnshamefast a forehead let others iudge) that knowledge and faith are no matters to speake of; and of light importance in respect of workes the one to bee ofttimes dispatcht in the space of one weekes learning; the other mough for all our life: Hence is it againe,In defining of a true Christian. Part. 1. c. 5. that when you come to define a Christian man, you shun the leuel that you hauehave in the word of God, and so handsomly bring the matter about, that when you hauehave saide, whosoeuer considereth what you hauehave set downe, and layeth one part thereof to the other, he may easilie see, that you make him a maruelous proper man; for al the world such as your selfe, and none other. Insomuch that whosoeuer were disposed to examine your dealing herein, he might easily it taken knowne vntounto all, either that you know not which way to begin, rightly to define a Christian man: or els (which is the likelier, and yet not altogither praeiudicing the other neither) that you could not finde in your heart truly to doo it, because it crosseth you so much as it doth) nor to draw so neere towards it, as otherwise it is possible inough that you could. Hence is it likewise, that when you take vponupon you to comfort a man against despair;In comforting sinners against dispaire. Part. …. cap. 1. although you bring diuers thinges well after your manner (that is, corruptly, mingling the truth of God with your lies) of the louelove & merciemercy of God, p. 149not onelyonly towards man generally, but also toward sinners; of the assurance therof likewise, and how the penitent may apply the same to them-selues: yet, neither hauehave you sufficiently declared, who, & what kinde of men they are, vntounto whome these mercies of God appertaine, and who may of right take hold thereof, by the vndoubted warrant of the worde of God, but onelyonly by the way, and generally (a thing notwithstanding that proportionably needeth as large handling, as dooth the other) nor howe the iustice of God is so answered, that he may affoord vsus those mercies, without impeachment of his owne glorie on that behalfe. Both which points are of such importance to the raising vp of the troubled soul, vntounto the assurance of Gods merciemercy, as that, vnlesse the soule of a man be throughly satisfied for those things also, it can neuer take holde of the assurance of that speciall fauour towardes it, that may sufficiently strengthen it against despaire, thogh otherwise the mercies of God, in that course thay you hauehave taken, were much more fullie displayed before it, and that without anie kinde of corruption mingled withall. Whereas therefore you professe your selfe in that chapter to hauehave it your purpose to minister comfort vntounto the sinner, that otherwise in despaire of Gods merciemercy might be in daunger, altogither to turne aside from the way of his seruice, and yet notwithstanding leaue out so principall matters, as without the which the other can minister no sound comfort, heereby also it may indifferent p. 150plainly appeere, how rightly it may be applied to you, that Iob did lay to the charge of his frendes, that wheras they tooke themselues to be wise, yet were they, in such case, but as physitians of no value, and miserable comforters all the sort of them.Miserable comforters all the sort of them. But this you hauehave, because you are loth to affoord vntounto Christ, the honor that to him appertaineth. Otherwise you must needes hauehave seene, and set downe accordingly, that although the mercies of God were exceeding great, as indeede they are infinite, and much greater than they are, if greater could bee: yet might no man looke to bee partaker thereof, but in Iesus Christ, and by faith in him. By occasion whereof you should more fullie hauehave opened vntounto vsus the pointes of the Couenant that is established in him; and who they are with whome it is made: and not so negligently (or slily rather) hauehave lapped vp so great matter and so necessarie vntounto the purpose that you had in hande, with the tearmes of repentance generally. For though it may stand (being largely taken and rightly withall) for the effect of the whole, and is taken oftentimes both in the Fathers and Scriptures also: yet (to such a purpose) as, in it self oftimes it doth need a larger discourse for the opening of it, especially to those that doo not sufficiently vnderstand the power thereof; so was it any wise to hauehave bene in that place performed of you, if you ment to minister any sound cō fort; & not rather to settle a sinner in your accustomed popish presumption, than rightly to raise p. 151raise him vp to a Christian faith. Hauing so largely intreated of those things, that, in that case, lie on the parte of God towardes vsus: you should not so slightly hauehave put off the others that lie on our parts towards him againe, being so large in themselues as they are, & in that case requiring as large a discourse. So likewise for the other, that is, howe the iustice of God is in such sort answered, that without impeachment of his owne glorie, he may vouchsafe vsus those mercies of his, it was a point that went so neere vntounto the sufficiencie of our redemption in Christ, that eyther you saw not what belonged vntounto it: or else could in no wise finde in your heart to meddle therewith, least so you ouerthrow the verie foundations of the gainfullest partes of your profession. These, and such like others there bee, so neere of kin vntounto the controuersies that you maintaine, that I meane not to deale with you therein: though otherwise you hauehave left aduantage inough therein against your selfe, for those that would. For beeing of so corrupt mindes as you are, so long as you doo holde those opinions that you doo, it may be no maruel, though you perswade your selues that therein you hauehave some colour of defence: howsoeuer that others do plainly see, that therein you are as plainlie deceiued as can be.

36 Therfore to omit those that are of this kind,In certaine others that do nothing belong to anie controuersie. and but to put you a little in mind of a few others wherein there lieth no such colour of defence for you, first, what time as Isaac went foorth to p. 152meditate, as you alledge, you make him then to bee but a childe:Isaac was but a child with him, when he was fortie yeeres old. Pag. 16. and if wee ioine your woordes togither, that there stande but a little a sunder, a little childe. And this (we are sure) was no bodies els but onelyonly your owne: because it is not in the former Booke, but onelyonly in this latter, of your owne trimming vp. But I feare it is you that was the child, and not he: because the Scripture (in the next chapter after) doth plainely witnesse, that he was at that time vponupon fortie yeeres olde. Whence you shuld hauehave this conceit of yours, I cannot tell. Howbeit hereby you make me to call to remembrance a much like matter that was saide to bee doone in Oxfoord, about the same time that you were there (if you bee the same that I heare that you are:) or at least not so long before, but that a fresh report thereof might very well reach vntounto you. A certaine company of country plaiers came thither to play: they made it knowne what they did meane; and, as the maner is, drew in a companie soone vntounto them. Among other thinges they had to deale with the storie of Isaac: both of his sacrificing, when he was but a childe; and of his marriage, when after he came to riper age. They were not so wel stored of persons to furnish their partes, but that one boy must play Isaac, both in his childhood, and manhood also: but as the boies own face serued their turne for Isaacs childhood; so had they for him a faire long beard, to resemble his manhood. But all the cunning was to hit the time when he should hauehave his beard on, and when p. 153he should not. What will you? there was no more but right and wrong. When therefore hee came foorth as a childe to bee sacrificed, hee had on his, beard: and when after he was to be married, then as a child he had it off, and onelyonly his owne boyes face to shut vp the matter. But I hope you were neuer so mad, as to take it thence. That which you speake of your fiftie Gentlemen consumed by fire,Fiftie gentlemen for two hundred and fiftie. pa. 70. might with some colour bee laid on the Printer, but that the number is written at large: and especially for that you hauehave so many slips of this kinde, that it is a great deale more likely, that you aimed thereat (after your manner) blindly inough, but so well as you could. Howbeit the storie is (both in the Bible, and in Iosephus too) that they were no lesse than two hundred and fiftie. But it may bee those two hundred were wearie of their entertainment, because you did looke no better vntounto them: and so being disposed to play the gentlemen with you, got them out of sight, when you should hauehave taken the view of them. For the sacrificing of Iephthes daughter,Iephthes sacrificing of his daughter. Pag. 78. whom you say her father did put to death, you hauehave (I grant) in that matter, many great authors for you, both olde and newe. But if it had pleased you better to hauehave opened your eyes, to the light that in these daies God hath giuen vsus, it may bee, you might hauehave espied an other opinion, likely to hauehave the stronger warrant in the worde of God. Your reckoning likewise that Abraham liued verie neere two thousand yeeres after Adam, Of the time when Abraham liued pa. 143.must (vnlesse you p. 154followe, as knowing no better, the Graecian account) improperly spoken, or els false: because the truth is, that it was but a little more betwixt the first creation of the world; and the birth of Abraham; & otherwise, from the death of Adam, vntounto Abrahams calling (which seemeth to lie neerest to your purpose, & therin to the best aduauntage for you) there wants aboue 800. of those that you hauehave gathered. But whereas you make 400 yeeres (after the death of Iacob) of the people of Israels bondage in AEgypt, Of the time of their bondage in Aegypt. Pag. 144.you shewe your selfe nothing neere to vnderstand, howe to reckon those 400. yeeres that are mentioned Gen. 15.13. & Act. 7.6 (as in the 13. chap. likewise, & 20 verse, sauing that others are there put vntounto them) nor those 400. & 30. in the 12. of Exodus the 14. verse, and in the … to the Galathians, and 17. verse. Wherin althogh the iudgement of diuers doth some-thing varies yet is there no such varying in them, as vnderunder which you may be able to couer the ignorāce that here hath slipt you. For seing that you shew your selfe to speake of that part of the time, whereof there is little recorded in Scripture of their dooings, & the same to be after the death of Iacob (for both these limitations are your owne) you hauehave made it euident thereby, that you meane that very time in which the persecution was raised against them, and afterward in cruel maner was executed vponupon them: and not the whole time from the first calling of Abraham; nor from the promisse renewed vntounto him. For, from the first calling of Abraham, p. 155vntil their comming downe into AEegypt, and likewise of their first entertainment there for a time, there is in Scripture so much recorded, as (excepting the first and the last yere of their being in the wildernes onelyonly) there is not more of anie historie, of that quantitie of time, in all the Bible: &, besides that, it all went before the death of Iacob. But now, whereas from the calling of Abraham, or from the promisse renewed vntounto him, vntill their deliuerance out of AEgypt, there are reckoned but those foure hundred & thirty yeres in all, & the time of their wandring in Canaan, & the coasts thereabout, is verie cleerely found to be two hundred and fiftene yeeres, before that Iacob (by Iosephs means) came to soiourn in AEgypt; & the residue of Iosephs life after that his father was come, was about threscore & eleuen (al which are parcel of those foure hundred & thirtie yeres, and past before that bondage of theirs began:) it appereth most plainly, that herein you wer maruelous wide, & are in no wise able to excuse your ignorance in it. So that howsoeuer your fellowes may vse you to som other purpose, that wil serue their turn as wel: yet by your patience it seemeth to me that they neede some other to make their reckonings. But of these inough, & more than needed, but that needes you must be the onelyonly men of the world for learning, & praunce vp & down on the face of the earth, and fling here, and there, like the goodliest, and the most seruiceable coursers that are: & yet in the plainest ground that is, are euer p. 156tripping, and stumbling too, and ofttimes falling flat downe on all foure. Insomuch that wheresoeuer els your learning lieth, yet in the word of God we find that you are but as other men are, & those not of the greatest account. You make so light of it, that it also maketh as light of you; and therfore sendeth you emptie away: that so you may bee, both to your selues, and to those that chuse you to be their leaders (& that of the iust iudgements of God) an heauie, and an vnprofitable burthen, lamps without light, and wandring guides, euer shocking on to & fro, in the glimmering of your own light, and by the sparks that your selues hauehave kindled; and yet notwithstanding neuer being able to auoide the reward of this your infidelitie, that of course befalleth vntounto you from the hande of the Lord, that when you hauehave doone, you shall lie downe and sleepe in sorrow.

The first part of the conclusion, beginning with a brief recitall of the whole. First generally, that he dealeth herein, as Laban som time dealt with Iacob. Gen. 31.Gen 3137 And so hauing now thus farre examined those things that you hauehave laid to my charge, and trusting that I hauehave sufficiently satisfied, if no… your selfe, yet the indifferent reader therein, nowe (to draw to an end for these matters) I wold wish you to consider, how like to Laban you hauehave delt with mee: and so take it in better part, if I vse for: my self, the same defence that Iacob did. For now that you hauehave so hotely followed vponupon mee, as it were with hue and crie, or rather in most hostile manner, when you hauehave charged mee (with open mouth (with so great iniurie doone vntounto you, vntounto the Fathers, and Scriptures themselues; when you p. 157hauehave made the best search that you can, and turned all thinges vp-side-downe, that nothing at all might escape vnespied: what is there nowe that for all this you hauehave found, where-with you may be able to charge me: or wherin hauehave I made any such fault against the Scriptures, the Fathers, or your self, that deserueth so much as the tenth part one halfe of those out-cries, and outragious speeches that you hauehave blustered foorth against mee? What I had doone, I hauehave fully acknowledged: how greeuously you hauehave taken it, that hauehave I also in some part declared, but not so fully. And now, as Iacob said vntounto him, so doo I say vntounto you likewise: let it here be laid in the sight of al men, and abide the triall; both of your brethren, and mine. He charged Iacob, that he stale away without his knowledge: and tooke away his daughters with him. But were not his daughters the wiues of Iacob, and might not Iacob lawfully take them? And had hee first made Laban priuie vntounto it, may wee thinke that Iacob might hauehave had his consent, so to hauehave done? He charged him also, to hauehave taken away his idols with him: and indeede they were gone, but Iacob was wrongfully charged withall: and could not tell, which way to helpe him vntounto them againe. Your idols likewise, I graunt, are gone: but why should you be so angrie with mee. The truth it selfe hath made them to hide their faces for shame: and I am not able (would I neuer so faine) to shewe you how to get them againe. So that although Labans idols indeede p. 158were gone; yet was there nothing that hee was able iustly to lay to the charge of Iacob: insomuch that at length he: thought he had stirred too much alreadie, and there-vponupon drew into amitie with him. And although that the latter of them bee a greater matter than you are able to reach vntounto, of any man els expecteth of you: yet would it not bee amisse, that at your leisure you should consider indifferently, whether you hauehave not stirred herein a great deale more, than either the cause it selfe required, or els was wisedom (on your owne behalfe) for you to do. For first as touching the ill dealing and great iniurie that your complaine of,Then more specially in the particulars. it is such, as either chiefly respecteth your selfe in these your labours: or else the cause that you hauehave in hande. Concerning your selfe, you charge me with altering the title so, as if you would perswade your Reader, that my selfe would hauehave had the glorie of it: and yet you are faine to set downe the same to your owne aduantage, otherwise than you had it of mee; and quite to leaue out that which you sawe discharged mee of it. You complaine of great corruption, mangling, falsifiyng: and what not? And yet you bring foorth nothing at all to any purpose, to discharge your credite therein. When I charged Philosophers, and some Diuines of olde, to hauehave had their errours about the immortalitie of the soule, that tooke you as meant of your selfe and your fellowes, and there-vppon are passing angrie for it: and yet was it but your owne ouersight, p. 159that so did take it; and in no wise can bee ascribed to mee. Yet these are the iniuries (and a few others of lesse importance) that are so great, as that there is nothing, but open hostilitie may rise vppon them. Concerning the cause that you hauehave in hande, you are highlie offended, that I hauehave left out your Purgatorie, Auricular confession; Satisfaction, idle Munkerie, forced Virginitie, wilfull Pouertie, Apparitious, friuolous Chastening of the bodie, watching, weeping, abstinence, and fasting after your manner, and merits: and yet neither hauehave …taken them from you, but refused our selues so to take them; neyther is it in mee to allowe so honest a place vntounto anie such matters, as the truth hath nowe so plainelie declared (the best of them all, as you doo vse them) to bee so wicked, or at least but vaine. That the blessed Virgin is altogither without sinne, is a late errour of yours: and because that vnderunder it faine you would shrowd your woonted idolatrie to her committed, you cannot abide that it bee crossed neuer so little. Because I cannot allowe that, a speciall commaundement, that was particularly giuen vntounto some, should stande as a generall rule vntounto all, nor, that men may at any time leaue their calling, nor married folkes parte asunder without consent: therefore do I both discredite Saint Anthonies calling; and call in question S. Augustines conuersion, and yet must may Annotation theron bee dismembred also, to helpe p. 160out that conceit of yours. Not so content (I meane to complaine so much as you doo without ar… cause, & to make so great outcries, for such thing… as you might much better hauehave passed with silence) that yet you may much better shewe your selfe what you are, is it not a proper dalliance that you make, of the armes of the Archbishop, and Church of Yorke, ioined togither? Doo you not thinke that you were full grauely occupyed, in so serious matters as these? But that was no sufficient way for you to shewe what you are, and what is in you, but that needes you must make your selfe… partie likwise in that late wicked practise against him: as though it were of some great importance, what part you tooke in that action; or your partaking could giuegive some credit, either to the cause it selfe, or vntounto those that helpe it forward. But in the meane season you hauehave made it a likely matter in reason, that you would bee loath, that anie should hauehave such a matter in hand, and not allow you to make one among them: and seeing you hauehave made such choise of your companions, wee are nowe so much the rather to acknowledge the old prouerbe true, that like will to like, whensoeuer wee see (you knowe whome) and the Frier so met togither. For as for other thinges that belong vntounto vsus, whrewith you would so gladly find fault, they goe so skant with you, that you are faine to carp at the assurance that the Scriptures do teach vsus to hauehave in God, because it hindreth your marke… with vsus: and that marriage is not restrained p. 161further among vsus, than the woorde of God alloweth it to be. Which latter point was in no wise to be reprooued by you: considering how fowly you are polluted because you doo so far abandon that holie ordinance of God from you. And yet are you so eagerly set thereon, that to force that aduauntage on your side, you hauehave depraued both my Annotation, and Saint Augustines rule besides, which faine you would hauehave strengthened against vsus therin. With like wisedome and honestie is it, that when wee aduaunce the blessednes of these daies to the glorie of God; and ioy that our monie dooth not nowe goe foorth to the mainteinance of forraine power abroad: you call the one intolerable lying flatterie; the other you …; is but a fiction. As touching my selfe, there …ede bee no question, but that you are througly …gred with me: you do so vnquietly take whatsoeuer I doo, whatsoeuer I say. When I bring in that sentence of Scripture, Iesus Christ yesterday & today, and the same for euer, you cannot tell what I should meane thereby; and besides you abuse (for my sake, I feare) the sentence it selfe. When I am so bold as to gesse that a good part of your booke might be taken out of certain of the Schoolmen: thereupon I must bee so ignorant in them, that I do not so much as knowe what they treat on; and yet, both you know that so it might; and your self are faine, both to shut vp your eies, that you might in no wise see whom I speake of, and there also to alter my words againe to your aduauntage. Afterward, p. 162in the Pacification, not onelyonly the methode misliketh you, when as notwithstanding you doe finde no fault with it: but also whatsoeuer I say, that do you euer almost take in a contrarie sense, when as notwithstanding the woordes bee cleere inough in themselues, as before is declared. But then comming to your owne sweet selues, the copie of your countenance is by and by altered, and there you put on more amiable lookes. For you (forsooth) are the onelyonly men that can make books of deuotion, pretie, & contemplation: & you perhaps (it is wel, that this commeth in with perhaps) will one day declare, that our profession is such, as hath nothing at all (in heauen, nor in earthy to mooue men vntounto it, but onelyonly respect of temporal commoditie; but yours hath all. So that now for deuotion, and the controuersies also, all the learning that thereunto belongeth, lieth altogither with you, and none with vsus. And yet are you no sooner entered into the remembrance of the learning you hauehave found in manie of vsus, and name … in the controuersies that are betwixt vsus, but that by and by you call hard vponupon vsus for bookes of deuotion: when you were desirous to say somewhat against vsus by the authoritie and force of some speciall places, in all your store you found none other but such as did most readily turne against your selues: when you thought you had Cyprian to accord vntounto you in your perswasion of our glorified estate, it appeereth you did not vnderstand your owne author: when you heard that p. 163the silence of the blessed Virgin, and of other Disciples of Christ (leauing him vntounto the reproch of all men, and nothing at all defending his innocencie against them) was a breach of diuers of Gods commaundements, you could not tell how to begin, to find it the breach of anie one. To which end also may bee referred, that knowledge and faith is (with you) but of one weeks learning: your grosse and rude definition of a Christian man: your imperfect discourse against despaire: & your so vnskilfull reckoning of those yeres that I hauehave admonished you of so distinctly and plainly set downe in the text it selfe. But the more you denie learning to those, that so readilie finde such ignorances in you, in so small a roome so manie togither, in a woorke that was laboured, and car…ing with it great vaunts of learning: the strongger you conclude against your selfe, the more hauehave you brought your selfe in question; and the lesse are you able nowe to cast off the selfe-same reproch, that you were so desirous to cast vponupon vsus. All which if nowe you had rather to hauehave in lesse roome, it is no more (in effect) but this, that you hauehave boldly borne vsus in hand of much; you hauehave mistaken, depraued, and falsified more; and freelie hauehave you taken your libertie and pleasure to carpe at all; but otherwise, against me, or for your selfe, that is woorth the writing, or woorth the reading, you hauehave brought as little as may bee; and that is nothing.

38 This is (in a manner) the effect of all your p. 164labours heerein:The second part of the conclusion, ending with a short admonition of the iudgements of God. these are the causes you had to complaine; and this is the busines you hauehave made thereupon. And now hauehave I no more at this time to say vntounto you, because I see no such temper in you as may put mee in anie hope, to doo you anie good by sound admonition. For seeing that you hauehave so manie waies so ill a cause, not onelie in your religion now, but also in your naughtie dealings against princes and states themselues, & yet notwithstanding, are in no wise able your selues to find it, nor can be made to perceiue it, by those that do most plainly point you vntounto it: how many we thinke otherwise of you, but that either you are starke blind, and can see nothing at all; or els hauehave hardened your hartes so much against the mercifull calling of God, that though you see it yet you cannot beleeue it nor yeeld your selue in obedience vntounto it? If it be so, then is it cleere, that in that case there can bee no dealing with you… your conuersion, so long as the iustice of GOD doth leaue you therein to your selues. Yet others may see, and acknowledge in you, the feareful, but righteous iudgements of God, that hauing followed idols so much as you hauehave, nowe are you become idols your selues: hauing eies, and yet not able to see; eares, and yet not able to heare; faire nostrels to see too, and yet hauing in them of this kind of life) no breath at all. Insomuch that nowe we hauehave in you experience againe, of that which hath beene taught vsus before, that as the wares of God are plaine and right vntounto the iust, so are they p. 165stumbling-blockes to the wicked: and that Christ himselfe, in the wisedome of the Father, is in so wonderfull maner giuen vntounto vsus, as that although he be in Sion a chiefe corner-stone, ebect, and pretious to them that beleeue: yet is hee likewise a stone to stumble at, & a rocke of offence to them which stumble at the woord, and are disobedient. Go your waies therefore, yee shrinking children, that hauehave forsaken the Lord of life, and counted your selues vnwoorthie of him; that hauehave had the Gospell deliuered vntounto you by Christ himselfe, and hauehave not kept it; that all this while bearing the world in hande, that you are the onelie builders, can neuer bee induced to hauehave anie liking of that which is the head-stone of the corner. And, if there bee no remedie, but that needes you will holde on the course you are in, walking in darknes, in the midst of light, abiding in bondage, when you may bee free, and disposed to perish, when saluation is offered: what can we doo better, than (as Christ in the like case did) fully content & settle our selues in such iudgements of God, the causes whereof are euer iust, howe secret soeuer they bee vntounto vsus. His name therefore be euer blessed, and glorified of all those that are his, that to the glorie of his holie name, and to the further manifestation of his great, and vnspeakable mercies to his chosen people, it hath pleased him, to hide those things from the wise and learned, and to open the same vntounto babes. Euen so bee it: for so it standeth with his good pleasure. Among you all we trust there are p. 166some, that doo appertaine to the secret election: and are to be called in their time. Now is the time when they may as plainly perceiue howe far they are falling (if they should go on still with you) as euer they or anie others might, since the world began. God giuegive them grace so to perceiue it, and so to with-draw themselues from your naughtie waies (and that, while they hauehave this acceptable time, before that euer it be too late) that with you they be not partakers of those heauie iudgements that are already prepared for you: and of which (in the course that now you are in) you shall one day tast, and cannot escape, would you neuer so faine.

FINIS.

End of the text · Edmund Bunny, A Brief Answer (1589)